| 1/10/2007 7:02:08 AM |
Was Judas Really the Devil Incarnate that people made him out to be? |
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sinfulcharming
Fort Wayne, IN
age: 43
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Here is a topic that has so many interpretations...I would love to know what you guys think
Thanks
Sin
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| 1/10/2007 10:19:17 AM |
Was Judas Really the Devil Incarnate that people made him out to be? |
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mike0001
Bemidji, MN
age: 24
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I do not believe Judas was the Devil Incarnate out to destroy Jesus. I think he was the very thing Jesus was warning us all of, a man who focuses more on the world and worldly items than Godly or moral ones.
He literally betrayed the very person he called friend and teacher for 30 peices of silver... sentencing his "Friend" to death (he was probably assuming a lashing or other type of punishment, not death... but the point is he still betrayed his friend, and brought him to harm for his personal gain).
So I honestly believe Judas was just a man who didn't get it, who could not accept Jesus, or his teachings. He was lost. And because he was lost, he was used by the devil to suffer Jesus.
But that's my view on it. Judas was not evil, but instead a man who fell to wordly things.
- Mike :o)
... Love Your Neighbor As Yourself (Matthew 22:39)
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| 1/10/2007 11:10:34 AM |
Was Judas Really the Devil Incarnate that people made him out to be? |
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sinfulcharming
Fort Wayne, IN
age: 43
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Then my question is..... Had it not been for Judas... would you have eternal life?
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| 1/10/2007 11:28:25 AM |
Was Judas Really the Devil Incarnate that people made him out to be? |
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mike0001
Bemidji, MN
age: 24
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If not for man's trespasses, would we have needed Jesus to die on the cross?
(now that is irony)
[Edited 1/10/2007 11:28:37 AM PST]
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| 1/10/2007 12:43:19 PM |
Was Judas Really the Devil Incarnate that people made him out to be? |
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sinfulcharming
Fort Wayne, IN
age: 43
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yep it sure is!
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| 2/23/2007 11:41:10 PM |
Was Judas Really the Devil Incarnate that people made him out to be? |
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jondalar
Reno, NV
age: 55
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Jesus once referred to Judas as the one He loved. He also trusted him with the money for the group. The cannonized writings of 360AD like to let us believe Judas betrayed Jesus for money. If you read the many other writings from the men who walked with Jesus (Paul and Mark did not)You find that though Judas acted alone his thoughts were not unlike many of the other Apostles. Judas was trying to force Jesus into revealing himself as King of Kings. The church knew where Jesus was every day, He arrived like a parade. They did not need Judas to help them find Him. I think what Judas proved best was that when we think we know better than God, we mess it up. Read the words of the Apostles and see that they did not fully understand the kingdom that Jesus refered to until after his resurection. Thomas was not the only one who was unsure of what was going on and they were living it, they had walked and talked and sat around a hundred campfires with Jesus. Any wonder we have so many different ideas about the kingdom, God and Jesus.
Jondalar
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| 2/25/2007 3:35:32 PM |
Was Judas Really the Devil Incarnate that people made him out to be? |
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sebzalive
Pamplin, VA
age: 84
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Judas just made it all more visible and documentable.
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| 3/8/2007 7:17:29 AM |
Was Judas Really the Devil Incarnate that people made him out to be? |
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elwoodjake
Lees Summit, MO
age: 53
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or, perhaps, Judas was the one apostle who actually understood Jesus, understood his mission, and actually did Jesus' bidding.
It was imperative that Jesus die on the cross. Judas simply facilitated that process. And, besides, every story needs a good villain.
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| 3/19/2007 7:15:40 PM |
Was Judas Really the Devil Incarnate that people made him out to be? |
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majorforce
Cambridge, MA
age: 34
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This whole idea of Judas being a bad guy sounds like he was the "fall guy"...afterall, it was said that Jesus said for him to do what he must, it must have been part of some plan. Were Jesus and his followers fugitives of sort? it was said that he had to be identified to the soldiers. Judas was just doing his duty
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| 3/25/2007 6:24:10 PM |
Was Judas Really the Devil Incarnate that people made him out to be? |
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vivi569
Miami, FL
age: 42
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Yes, I definitely concur with elwoodjake and majorforce. God is in control and Judas was the chosen one to carry out the plan. Judas understood this. It took great courage to betray the one he loved. It caused him such great pain that he couldn't live with his actions and he took his own life. If it wasn't for his sacrifice, the world would surely be lost.
Vivi 569.
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| 3/26/2007 10:03:02 PM |
Was Judas Really the Devil Incarnate that people made him out to be? |
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kindanice06
Fort Lauderdale, FL
age: 52
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I will not sympathize with Judas. He was drawn out by his own desires. He was given every opportunity for change and changed not. He was a betrayer and coveter. I kinda like part of the approach Mike0001 takes in terms of reminding me to look in the mirror and get a clue. Judas philisophically; is quite reflective of many of us who profess one thing and are often quite another at a given momentconcerning the things of God.We all (outside of this room ofcourse) betray God in many things, some known and some unknown
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| 3/29/2007 8:38:07 PM |
Was Judas Really the Devil Incarnate that people made him out to be? |
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eagleclaw
Ellwood City, PA
age: 49
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Jesus sais in the scripture the 12 he chose he knew well. he also said the 12 would set on 12 thrones with him. One part of scripture it sais satin entered him.Judas had choices to make and he made them.He was always stealing ect,the book of Acts sais let another take his place.after satin left or used judas maybe he did repent before he hung himself this was all before Christ suffered died and rose. It sais Jesus desended to hell to preach to the lost I think judas would have been at that preaching.I've read the bible front to back over 40 times and on this one(judas) I realy just dont know.Christ said unless you"re righteousness..(right relationships)exceed that of the pharisees you cant enter heaven.But this I have learned from the good book all sin no matter how small is designed to destroy a relationship between friends ,family ,ect thru drugs, gossip,stealing,drinking and on and on thats why Christ said to love you're neighbor as you're self.like judas we make choices everyday in matthew Jesus said how can one enter a strong mans house unless he first binds him. satin can only bind us by our attitude its our choice after all Jesus said he who is without sin can cast the first stone I know i cant throw any at judas.
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| 4/5/2007 5:46:41 PM |
Was Judas Really the Devil Incarnate that people made him out to be? |
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sinfulcharming
Fort Wayne, IN
age: 43
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Did anyone see the National Geographic's The Gospel of Judas? it shines a whole new light on Judas, and all of it was documented.
Apparently now they have found the documents which bring to light The Gospel of Mary Magdalene too!
[Edited 4/5/2007 5:47:41 PM PST]
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| 4/6/2007 7:07:26 AM |
Was Judas Really the Devil Incarnate that people made him out to be? |
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brocknct
Newcomerstown, OH
age: 32
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Then my question is..... Had it not been for Judas... would you have eternal life?
Had it not been for Judas? God already knew that Judas would do it, before sending Jesus down. Jesus knew that Judas would betray him, it was God's plan. There was no other way for it to have happened.
As for if Judas was devil incarnate, no he did God's work by betraying the son. Though even Satan does God's work, by testing us and tempting us. If there was no temptation, no tests of our faith, no tests against our beliefs, no tests against our devotion, then it'd be pointless. Those tests need to be there, God made Satan for that very purpose, God made him, knowing he would fall. God gave him his power, God allowed him to stray from the path, it was the only way.
Apparently now they have found the documents which bring to light The Gospel of Mary Magdalene too!
Don't think I've seen it, though I do have to question every one of those programs, they always show ministers that claim to know, and offer nothing as proof, or very little as proof. While the church sits on mountains of proof, and buries it for non to see, many writtings, many items. Most of those writtings go against what that church preaches, which is why they seek to bury it, maybe that truely is for the best of us all, maybe it's not.
The word of God shall never be corrupted by the hearts of man, to paraphrase, to me means if it isn't in the Bible, then it doesn't matter.
No matter how fascinating it might be to read things that claim different things, one should read them with a cup of salt. Remember the job of the devil is to cast doubt, he is doing God's work by weeding out the lesser of us.
[Edited 4/6/2007 7:23:53 AM PST]
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| 4/7/2007 11:29:05 AM |
Was Judas Really the Devil Incarnate that people made him out to be? |
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natruel
Leesburg, FL
age: 46
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no judas wasnt the devil, he was used by satan, or should i say ,his faith wasnt as strong as his will for greed of this world,and no jesus didnt die on the cross, he died on two pieces of wood (stake), cross is a word not wood from a tree, you cant grow cross! or can you?
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| 4/8/2007 5:24:03 AM |
Was Judas Really the Devil Incarnate that people made him out to be? |
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elfinmagic75
Ardmore, OK
age: 35
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I grow cross a little too often, but usually dont lose my temper.
Judas was a greedy man. It is documented that he stole from the coffers that he was treasurer over, and when Mary announted the feet of Jesus with expensive oil, he was the one to protest it and say it should be sold and given to him for the ministry, so that he could have more. He did this act for a little money. Jesus was set up to be the King of Kings, so maybe he figured if he turned him in it hasten the becoming king part and he would get rewarded for it, but I dont know and nothing to back that up. he was not devil, he was man, and was chosen by Jesus knowing that he would end up doing this. If it wernt for Judas we would be hearing about Micha or George or Bubba, someone else that would have been there to turn Jesus over to the leaders. Of course then you ahve to ask yourself is there such thing as destin, or is it just that God knows what choices we are going to make. I belive in free will, and I make the wrong choice probably more then Judas so I can't blame him or curse him or anything.
Eric
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| 4/9/2007 12:07:42 AM |
Was Judas Really the Devil Incarnate that people made him out to be? |
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queenofhearts61
Seymour, IN
age: 64
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Everyone has the right in America to believe as they please. My feeling about religion is when I was told either the devil controlled me or god controlled me we parted ways because that meant I had no will of my own, no choices, I did not own my own soul.
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| 4/10/2007 6:26:27 AM |
Was Judas Really the Devil Incarnate that people made him out to be? |
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elfinmagic75
Ardmore, OK
age: 35
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I am sorry that you were told that, but its more like this: Satan has reign over the Earth, and does own you pretty much, but doesn't control you. You have the choice to accept what Jesus has done for you and in essence give your life to God, in which you still have free will in which you always did, but God owns you and you become a rightful a heir to a place after this world. Satan still owns the Earth, but its a much better place with you then without you. Well thats just my opinion as a free thinking Christian, or is God Typing this cause he controls me hehe we may never know lol.
Eric
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| 4/20/2007 10:29:55 AM |
Was Judas Really the Devil Incarnate that people made him out to be? |
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natruel
Leesburg, FL
age: 46
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yes i also believe that Satan is the ruler of this world right now, when you read the account of job, you will see the god was having a meeting with his heavenly organization and in walk Satan all late so god ask Satan from where you come from, Satan said from the earth, see Satan was looking to destroy and to prove that if you take away mans blessing that he will curse you, so god let the test with Satan go about and it proved that job still stayed loyal, you have to read it for your self ,yes we are free willed god isn't telling us to serve him he ask us to taste him and to see how good he is , just like job trail , we are going thought our own desires test, we have to fight for god or Satan, your free choices watch out for you lustful or sinful desires because Satan is using everything he can to try to make god out of a lier. we have free will, that's n why i pray to the father in the name of jesus to forgive me were i fall short knowing or unknowingly...
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| 4/22/2007 1:19:06 PM |
Was Judas Really the Devil Incarnate that people made him out to be? |
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tron21369
Grants Pass, OR
age: 41
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its true we have choices corect if me iam wrong we fite the world the flesh and the devil and yet we have choices some time good 1s hehe and some time bad 1s but still a working progess
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| 7/2/2007 1:10:25 PM |
Was Judas Really the Devil Incarnate that people made him out to be? |
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bass13
Knoxville, TN
age: 30
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no he was not he was chosen by Jesus and he made a real bd choice that well i guess he was tempted by the deil and instead of saying no he bent to satan's will and betrayed Christ although he could have repented he killed himself
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| 7/2/2007 1:56:19 PM |
Was Judas Really the Devil Incarnate that people made him out to be? |
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knightoftherose
Asheville, NC
age: 30
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I believe Judas was one of the Disciples that wanted Jesus to become King over all Israel. He would have a lot to gain if the man he followed became King. In addition, he may not have fully believed Jesus when Jesus told his disciples he was going to die. By betraying Jesus it is very possible he believed he would force Jesus into taking control of his destiny, which Judas may have believed was to rule Israel. Instead of listening to what Jesus said his purpose was, it is possible Judas believed Jesus would become King.
He was always concerned with money. Even when a woman broke a jar of purfume at Jesus feet Judas scoffed because of the amount of money that was wasted. He could have sold that purfume to "feed the poor." Ultimately I believe Judas chose to betray Jesus, but God in his soveignty knew Judas would do so before hand.
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| 7/2/2007 2:08:29 PM |
Was Judas Really the Devil Incarnate that people made him out to be? |
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bass13
Knoxville, TN
age: 30
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well he was the treasdurer
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| 7/2/2007 5:19:58 PM |
Was Judas Really the Devil Incarnate that people made him out to be? |
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bucsfan1961
Lakeland, FL
age: 48
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we must be careful how we judge sin and the sinner, jesus spoke angrily at peter on several ocassions, once about peters over stepping his bounds when asked if his master piad taxes. and if you read that story jesus sends peter to pull a coin from the mouth of a fish, if judas was the greedy treasurer that weve made him out to be why did jesus not tell peter to go see judas,because there wasnt alot of money! another time jesus yelled at peter was when he cut a mans ear off in defence of jesus himself, and in return gets scolded by jesus. on the other hand anytime jesus is written about talking to or about the one that would betray him there are definate tones of passion, absolutly no anger, remmember in the garden jesus simply replies judas have you come to betray the son of man with a kiss,absolutly no anger,and notice that jesus called himself the son of man, not the son of god, judas only had the authority to betray the son of man, jesus had to lay aside the title and diety of the son of god before betrayal could even take place,it is humanly impossible to betry the son of god! therefore judas was nothing more than a man, right or wrong, and we have all been instruments of both god and the devil, so we must be careful how we judge sin.
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| 7/2/2007 5:35:17 PM |
Was Judas Really the Devil Incarnate that people made him out to be? |
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bass13
Knoxville, TN
age: 30
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well look it up in the bible should be somewhere in the gospels
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| 8/16/2007 6:12:52 AM |
Was Judas Really the Devil Incarnate that people made him out to be? |
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sinfulcharming
Fort Wayne, IN
age: 43
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All the explanation still doesn't shed any light, on whether Judas was a bad guy or he was simply following orders of his master. We can stand and question any and all programs, all religions and all books, it's in our nature to do so. If people question the validity of the Bible, the Qoran and the Torah why wouldn't they question this?
We all have to agree, the books were interpretations of people as to what happened at that time, Perhaps we can just agree to disagree about the issue!
[Edited 8/16/2007 6:18:02 AM PST]
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| 8/16/2007 6:19:54 AM |
Was Judas Really the Devil Incarnate that people made him out to be? |
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sinfulcharming
Fort Wayne, IN
age: 43
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That is a valid explanation Syn, if it was God's will who are we to question it correct?
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| 8/16/2007 6:43:34 AM |
Was Judas Really the Devil Incarnate that people made him out to be? |
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swcw25
Woonsocket, RI
age: 50
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I believe that Judas could have in fact been the one Apostle who truly loved and learned from Jesus the most.Jesus had made such an impact on him that when all was said and done...he killed himself because of the "pain" he felt for betraying Jesus.
Most people dont kill themselves unless they are in a lot of "pain"that consumes them.In order to feel that much "emotional pain" you would have to have,loved,hated,laughed,cried,hungered,thirsted etc...to distinguish what had worked for you and what is not working for you now.The world is a very confusing place and if you dont have healthy living skills the "pain" of the confusion can become unbearable and too unlivable for some.
I hate it when I hear people say how selfish someone was cause they killed themselves.My 12 yr old wants everything and willing to give nothing...thats selfish.He also says he doesnt believe in God....at his age...thats confusion!He often talks about killing himself,but not because hes selfish,but because hes Confused!!!!!Please pray for him,his name is Jonathan. Thanks
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| 8/20/2007 7:38:08 AM |
Was Judas Really the Devil Incarnate that people made him out to be? |
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bass13
Knoxville, TN
age: 30
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he really was not a bad guy he was greedy and betrayed Jesus for 30 peices of silver i bet some of you would have done the same
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| 8/20/2007 5:48:46 PM |
Was Judas Really the Devil Incarnate that people made him out to be? |
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genuinedee
Crystal Lake, IL
age: 51
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No Judas did not have to betray Jesus!
God would never lead anyone into sin for the greater good! That is a deception.
God does however USE the existing evil situation and makes some good out of it, sometimes good that we will never know.
Example: In the 9/11 terror attacks... an evil situation,but the good that came out of it was people banded together from all walks of life, from all across the US, people prayed, people reflected on human life, family, friends, coworkers. Generousity abounded in physical and monetary help and there was an increased respect for the fire, police, medical personell who voluntarily and heroically sacrificed their time, talents and even their lives to save their fellow human beings.
Getting back to the original topic...
Greedy Judas did betray Jesus for some silver after which he wished he hadnt. He tried to reverse the wrong he had done by going back to the evil Jewish elders but they were blinded by their smug selfrighteous revenge for Jesus exposing their evils to them publically.
Judas, not wanting to keep the 'blood money' threw it back at them and left.
His sin... WOULD have been forgiven by Jesus IF Judas had repented and asked Jesus for forgiveness, even from the cross. Remember, Jesus forgave those who had any part in the crucifixion from the cross! However Judas despaired and doubted the love and mercy of Jesus thinking that his sin was unforgivable. Judas, who knew the Savoir personally... despaired. This despair brought about his taking his own life.
This is a prime example of the 'unforgivable sin' talked about in Sacred Scripture... doubting enough to shun the love & forgiveness of the Holy Trinity.
[Edited 8/20/2007 5:54:30 PM PST]
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| 8/22/2007 6:14:36 AM |
Was Judas Really the Devil Incarnate that people made him out to be? |
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sahyriael
Bronx, NY
age: 40
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In reading the Bible, lectures, religious articles, documentaries my personal conclusion and opinion is the following........
God revealed to Jesus the actions of the Apostles and all the events leading up to and including his death. I believe that Judas was a devoted apostle, follower and student of Jesus. I believe Judas misinterpreted Jesus' teachings as the Messiah, Saviour, and King of Kings. His frustrations over the opposition and lack of acknowledgement from the hierarchy motivated him to set in motion and prove that Jesus was who he said he was. He devised a plan to create and manipulate a situation whereas Jesus could defeat the Romans and therfore prove his power and strength as King of Kings. When Jesus asked the apostles not to fight, when he healed the wounded soldier, and willingly gave himself in captivity, Judas was horrified. Why?
When Judas kissed Jesus, and Jesus said, "will you betray me with a kiss", Judas did not know it was betrayal. Judas loved Jesus with adulation, yet he didn't recognize it. When Jesus healed the wounded soldier and let himself be taken prisoner, Judas realized his error. At that moment he realized how he listened, followed and praised Jesus but did not understand him or his teachings. At that moment he realized how much he loved him, and how at that instant, "He Got IT"........When Jesus said, "you betray me with a kiss", I believe Jesus was telling Judas that his superficial love betrayed him. Judas loved Jesus but for the wrong reasons. I believe God selected Judas to betray Jesus in order to teach us that sometimes we follow, pray, believe, and act in OUR love for Jesus not in Jesus' love for us. We preach in his name under falsehood because of our own beliefs in Jesus and not Jesus' beliefs in us.........
Sahri
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| 8/23/2007 9:09:13 PM |
Was Judas Really the Devil Incarnate that people made him out to be? |
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genuinedee
Crystal Lake, IL
age: 51
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Sorry Sahri but I must chime in and refute your post...
Credentials: USCCB Ministry Formation Certified, USCCB Catechatical Leader Certified, bible studies, 3rd order Discalced Carmelite (religious order) and Member of the Militia Immaculata and Associate of the Confraternity of the Guardian Angels (Opus Sanctorum Angelorum) as well as participated in 100's of conferences and retreats.
Ok here goes...
Judas did not misinterpret Jesus teachings and Judas KNEW who Jesus was and was already witness to his wonderous works and miracles. He did not have to test Jesus at all!
Good grief.
Judas sinful greed opened up the door to the evil one who entered him... literally possessed him at the 'Last Supper'.
Remember Mary of Magdela who used the fragrant oil on Jesus head and Judas bringing up the value of the oil and how she was wasting it? Wasting it on Jesus? Remember Judas said to Jesus in front of everyone present that he could have gotten a lot of money for it?
Judas greed for money blinded him and opened the door for evil to enter. It was then that he did what he did to betray Jesus. After the betrayal, after the kiss... the kiss... touching Jesus healed him from the demons grasp, exorcised if you will.
Then Judas took off running to 'take back what he had done' but the evil Jewish high priests/elders would not listen. Judas threw the money back at them and went off in the wilderness in despair which lead to his suicide.
God did not SELECT Judas to betray him. You think they would not have found Jesus without Judas betrayal? Ha... Jesus was a public figure, he was easily found and would have been easily captured. Jesus was not running away or hiding even though he knew what was happening.
Judas in his 'FREE WILL' allowed himself to be taken in by greed, by evil which lead to his evil deed and self destruction.
That is the biblical lesson for us. Not to freely give in to the evils of this world, the flesh and the devil for we destroy ourselves by it.
Refer to my previous post on this topic for the facts not opinions.
God bless us all with humility to correct our wrongs and wisdom to see the truth.
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| 8/24/2007 4:12:38 AM |
Was Judas Really the Devil Incarnate that people made him out to be? |
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9thstwonder
North Beach, MD
age: 51
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I sort of agree with Sahri. I see Judas as more of a victim of this god than an evil greedy man. I see Judas in the terms presented in the rock opera Jesus Christ Superstar by Tim Rice and Andrew Lloyd Webber. His actions were a necessary ingrediant, for god's/Jesus's plans to come to fruition, and he knew this. That being the case, after having read the story, I find that it was really Judas that made the most incredible sacrafice and not Jesus. Jesus only had to suffer a few days in hell, then was released and came to be adored and worshiped. Where as, poor Judas, would spend eternity in hell, and his name would be dragged through the slime and the mud. What an incredible love for his fellow man that Judas had, to make such a sacrafice, and what a selfish act on the part of Jesus to let such a travesty occur. No, if Jesus really wanted to make a sacrafice, let him spend eternity in hell with Judas for the supposed sins of man, and not a weekend.
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