The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!

10/8/2008 11:26:11 PM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
tomiscluutch Cayce, SC age: 22	I personally believe in reincarnation. But, I'd like to know how others view the idea of reincarnation. Do you reincarnate as a human? as an animal? What determines what you reincarnate as? And is their an ultimate goal to reincarnation? Meet singles at DateHookup.dating, we're 100% free! Join now!
10/9/2008 10:53:48 AM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
shakti Red Deer, AB age: 37	Really cool thread! I have always believed in reincarnation, but I cannot sit here and tell you why... it is just something I feel in the deepest part of me. I have read many different ideas on it, and all I can say is that some resonate and some don't... Have you read "Autobiography of a Yogi" By Paramahansa Yogananda? It is an amazing book! I have no answer about animals and reincarnation, absolutely no clue. I have heard before that they have a group soul.. but I am not sure if that makes sense to me.. I see reincarnation as a process of soul "perfection" which ultimately leads to becoming one with God.. a drop of water in an ocean of love.. retaining our individuality while completely immersed in the whole.. What is your opinion on the concept that we are actually living all of these lives NOW? That one messes with my mind, but it also makes sense since time being linear is only an illusion...
10/9/2008 4:37:26 PM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
nico420 Brookwood, AL age: 31	I believe in reincarnation as well, and I also have questions about the details. I originally concieved of a process where one, if they were to die before achieving enlightenment, came back in another life, in human form, to fullfill the quest of achieveing moksa- and while I concieved that karmic ties effected the situation you came back into, I didn't think it was plausible to return as a lesser life form, as I thought that seemed to negate the ability to progress spiritually- Others shared with me, and I now accept the possibiltiy, that it may be nescessary to come back as other life forms, and my preconception of these forms as 'lesser' may have hindered my ability to see their ability to be catalyst for spiritual growth. I had the opportunity to ask this question a while back in a thread here about Hinduism; Here is the discourse: 9/5/2008 12:39:46 PM Hinduism and india..anyone interested. flag post: (wrong forum \| inappropriate) quote reply wolfyhp Atascadero, CA age: 35 view all: posts \| threads joined: Apr. 2008 Quote from nico420: yes very much so... I have one specific question though: I am a firm believer in reincarntation, and I see it most often connected to Hinduism- but it is often portrayed as impossible and illogical by most other religions-outside of eastern traditions- I feel energy is niether created nor destroyed, and that at the time of death, if one has not acheived enlightenment, or not chosen to return as a bohdisatva, that the spirit reincarnates into another human, not into any other form- this I feel facilitates the spiritual evolution nescessary for most to fully become universally conscious, achieve moksha, and release their spirit from samsara while this seems logical to me, more so than only having one shot at a very tiny target. but i see reincarnation, especially related to Hinduism, as mocked because people think it means that if your karma is not up to par, that you will return as a lesser, or more primative form, such as an animal or insect-is this just mockery-or does Hinduism hold these beliefs- i feel that when reincarnated, the spirit will rise to the level of awareness gained in the previous life(usually by the age of 21) allowing one to grow and progress from where they left off- while I do feel karmic ties determine the situation or circumstances one is reborn into, I don't understand how it could result in a spirit being incarnated into an animal or insect or whatever that doesn't have the ability to progress spiritually- or am I underestimating the spiritual awareness of 'lesser' life forms I have always thought this was a misunderstood way of mocking a belief that people didn't share- please enlighten me on this issue if you can. namaste- nico Hmmm. I'll look in my texts, but I'm pretty sure Hinduism does believe in reincarnation into "lower animals" as well as into people (and at one time it was believed into castes as people) and it is indeed based on your karma. I know that Buddhism, which sprang from Hinduism, does as evidenced by the story below taken from http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/kawasaki/bl135.html I had heard this story before, but wanted it to be accurate so I found it on a website. The story is as follows. One day, while the Buddha was staying in Jetavana, some bhikkhus asked him if there was any benefit in sacrificing goats, sheep, and other animals as offerings for departed relatives. "No, bhikkhus," replied the Buddha. "No good ever comes from taking life, not even when it is for the purpose of providing a Feast for the Dead." Then he told this story of the past. Long, long ago, when Brahmadatta was reigning in Baranasi, a brahman decided to offer a Feast for the Dead and bought a goat to sacrifice. "My boys," he said to his students, "take this goat down to the river, bathe it, brush it, hang a garland around its neck, give it some grain to eat, and bring it back." "Yes, sir," they replied and led the goat to the river. While they were grooming it, the goat started to laugh with a sound like a pot smashing. Then, just as strangely, it started to weep loudly. The young students were amazed at this behavior. "Why did you suddenly laugh," they asked the goat, "and why do you now cry so loudly?" "Repeat your question when we get back to your teacher," the goat answered. The students hurriedly took the goat back to their master and told him what had happened at the river. Hearing the story, the master himself asked the goat why it had laughed and why it had wept. "In times past, brahman," the goat began, "I was a brahman who taught the Vedas like you. I, too, sacrificed a goat as an offering for a Feast for the Dead. Because of killing that single goat, I have had my head cut off 499 times. I laughed aloud when I realized that this is my last birth as an animal to be sacrificed. Today I will be freed from my misery. On the other hand, I cried when I realized that, because of killing me, you, too, may be doomed to lose your head five hundred times. It was out of pity for you that I cried." "Well, goat," said the brahman, "in that case, I am not going to kill you." "Brahman!" exclaimed the goat. "Whether or not you kill me, I cannot escape death today." "Don't worry," the brahman assured the goat. "I will guard you." "You don't understand," the goat told him. "Your protection is weak. The force of my evil deed is very strong." The brahman untied the goat and said to his students, "Don't allow anyone to harm this goat." They obediently followed the animal to protect it. After the goat was freed, it began to graze. It stretched out its neck to reach the leaves on a bush growing near the top of a large rock. At that very instant a lightning bolt hit the rock, breaking off a sharp piece of stone which flew through the air and neatly cut off the goat's head. A crowd of people gathered around the dead goat and began to talk excitedly about the amazing accident. A tree deva had observed everything from the goat's purchase to its dramatic death, and drawing a lesson from the incident, admonished the crowd: "If people only knew that the penalty would be rebirth into sorrow, they would cease from taking life. A horrible doom awaits one who slays." With this explanation of the law of kamma the deva instilled in his listeners the fear of hell. The people were so frightened that they completely gave up the practice of animal sacrifices. The deva further instructed the people in the Precepts and urged them to do good. Eventually, that deva passed away to fare according to his deserts. For several generations after that, people remained faithful to the Precepts and spent their lives in charity and meritorious works, so that many were reborn in the heavens. The Buddha ended his lesson and identified the Birth by saying, "In those days I was that deva."
10/9/2008 4:45:37 PM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
nico420 Brookwood, AL age: 31	I was actually talking with another member today via email about reincarnation, and this was what he had to say, I though if was beautifully poetic: I also believe that we go back into Nature when we are finished our infinite cycle of experience. I believe in potential energy as in atoms are 99.99% potential energy and not "nothing". I believe within that potential is where we go back to. I believe my wife who just recently left us is actually residing within the potential of every atom, waiting for her next potential to be realised. Does that make sense? Like a rain drop from cloud to ocean, mixing, evaporating and going back to the clouds. I love the metaphor he gave- I think it is pretty unanimous that your karma, the results from your actions here on earth, or the culmination of your karmic ties from previous lives, determines what you come back as-or at least what situation you come back into- each incarnation is meant for an opportunity to grow and mature spiritually- the ultimate goal is to cease the cycle of life, death, and rebirth-samsara and achieve enlightenment-moksa at that point you are faced with the decision to come back, as a bodhisatva, to help others achieve moksa, or to move on yourself and reconnect to the universal spirit- many believe it to be a conscious choice, while others see it as a process that will not end until all spirits are free from this physical plane I hope this helps.
10/9/2008 8:07:07 PM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
moonshadow59 Mahomet, IL age: 51	Yes I believe in the circle of life. My thoughts are that when you die to go to the light and are given a time of rest and reflection. You get to feel the good and the evil so that when you come back again you take those wisdoms with you and you should become a better person each time your soul is earth bound. Have you ever heard the words "old soul" used about someone. This means to me that the person has an old soul that has been earth bound many, many times. Makes you wonder how many times a soul has to return to become a Mother Theresa or Gandi? Make you think. I also believe that our souls are intertwined with other souls and at any given time they can be earth bound together or at different times but that the souls will always know each other. Have you ever meet someone and felt like you have known them your whole life. Well you have. I have been told by more than one person that the person I love deeply is because our souls are intertwined. We have been told we have been together thru many life times. And a business we ran was not the first time we have dealt with this particular animal. I have joked with him and told him he was probably the reason I was burned at the stake for being a witch because he has been told in a past life he was a preacher. So he was probably having an affair with me and his wife found out and named me a witch and I was burned. We have also been told that our souls will keep returning to each other because we have unfinished business. (Might I mention the burning). Just a little cosmic humor. I do not believe you can come back as anything you were not. So you cannot come back as an animal. So no matter how hard we wish no one will come back as a c*ckroach even though it may be just. Just my thoughts. [Edited 10/9/2008 8:09:54 PM ]
10/9/2008 9:21:02 PM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
night_tangle Anacortes, WA age: 21	wow you guys sure wrote allot >.< so i didnt read it all sorry! i believe in reencarnation for some and others go strait to their after life. its like.. it depends on what they are suposed to do with their life/lives. i also believe that some people aren't fully human and that those people tend to have to do more than those who are fully human. its like everyone was made for reasons, and so therefore some people have to stay around longer. it's complicated, b/c acording to my religion there isn't reencarnation ( i beleive thats b/c you cannot earn your way into heaven but reencarnation it the theory of working your way into the after life) on the other hand i have past memories. and i have had visions of what my next life will be. so i see it as a very complicated system that i couldnt possibly understand.
10/9/2008 9:48:23 PM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
nico420 Brookwood, AL age: 31	yeah night tangel- i agree it is incomprehensible, and no one probably knows for sure. but there are those who claim to have achieved enlightenment, and returned to help others do so, I take these accounts as the factual basis for my belief, although I realize that is an illogical and irrational statement in itself, as fact plays no part in it really- I take it you are reffering to christianity? I understand that conventional christian thought doesn't include reincarnation, but I feel it can be incorporated, it's dependant on what you think heaven is. Is it a place your spirit goes, with pearly gates and streets of gold? or is it a state of being one with god again? to me it's reconnecting to the universal spirit, and I feel until you are fully ready spiritually, you are stuck here to work on yourself and help others realize the true nature of the self and this reality
10/9/2008 10:29:43 PM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
aaronl Tucson, AZ age: 32	Rebirth means beings go through a succession of lives, each running from conception to death, as one of many possible forms of sentient life, each existing within one of five realms, according to Theravadins, or six according to other schools. These are further subdivided into a number of planes of existence Naraka beings: those who live in one of many Narakas (Hells). Animals: sharing some space with humans, but considered another type of life. Preta: Sometimes sharing some space with humans, but invisible to most people; an important variety is the hungry ghost. Human beings: one of the realms of rebirth in which attaining Nirvana is possible. Asuras: variously translated as lowly deities, demons, titans, antigods; not recognized by Theravada (Mahavihara) tradition as a separate realm: "There are only five destinies ... the kalakanjika asuras have the same colour, same nourishment, same foods, same lifespan as the pretas, with whom ... they marry. As for the Vepacittiparisa, they have the same colour, same nourishment, same foods, same lifespan as the gods, with whom they marry." Devas including Brahmas: variously translated as gods, deities, spirits, angels, or left untranslated. Rebirths in some of the higher heavens, known as the Suddhavasa Worlds (Pure Abodes), can be attained only by anagamis (non-returners). Rebirths in the arupa-dhatu (formless realms) can be attained only by those who can meditate on the arupa-jhanas. According to East Asian and Tibetan Buddhism, there is an intermediate state between one life and the next
10/10/2008 7:34:05 PM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
nico420 Brookwood, AL age: 31	Quote from aaronl: Rebirth means beings go through a succession of lives, each running from conception to death, as one of many possible forms of sentient life, each existing within one of five realms, according to Theravadins, or six according to other schools. These are further subdivided into a number of planes of existence Naraka beings: those who live in one of many Narakas (Hells). Animals: sharing some space with humans, but considered another type of life. Preta: Sometimes sharing some space with humans, but invisible to most people; an important variety is the hungry ghost. Human beings: one of the realms of rebirth in which attaining Nirvana is possible. Asuras: variously translated as lowly deities, demons, titans, antigods; not recognized by Theravada (Mahavihara) tradition as a separate realm: "There are only five destinies ... the kalakanjika asuras have the same colour, same nourishment, same foods, same lifespan as the pretas, with whom ... they marry. As for the Vepacittiparisa, they have the same colour, same nourishment, same foods, same lifespan as the gods, with whom they marry." Devas including Brahmas: variously translated as gods, deities, spirits, angels, or left untranslated. Rebirths in some of the higher heavens, known as the Suddhavasa Worlds (Pure Abodes), can be attained only by anagamis (non-returners). Rebirths in the arupa-dhatu (formless realms) can be attained only by those who can meditate on the arupa-jhanas. According to East Asian and Tibetan Buddhism, there is an intermediate state between one life and the next so, according to your understanding of this process, do you think each individual must make the same succession of incarnations, inhabiting each of the forms you mention in order to achieve enlightenment? Or is it different for each individual? Are Karmic ties the dominant factor that determines your path and incarnation, or is it predetermined? And lastly, how does one transcend this realm through reincarnation? Is it attainable only after achieveing enlightenment in this realm? Or can you go back and forth between lives from one realm to another? Sorry for the bombardment of questions, I have just never heard these details outlined before and I find it intriguing. Thanks- -nico
10/10/2008 8:24:27 PM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
rubberbiscut Glenwood, IA age: 49	Yes I believe we have been here many times. In a channeling, I was told I've had hundreds of lifetimes. After that I began having dreams about some of them. I have also had a past life regression showing me who I've been. I don't remember everyone's names now, sorry, but to the lady who mentioned simultaneous lives. It was explained to me in a channeling that our lives are like a buffet table. They are all there at once, just like all the choices of food. You can see all of it, but you can get to only one dish at a time. You may pass up the salad and go straight to the meat and maybe when you go back you'll have the salad, etc.. Hope that helps. That was a tough thing for me to grasp in the beginning as well. Actually, the Christian religion did believe in reincarnation, but most of those scriptures were removed. There are still references to it, though. Like when they asked Jesus if he was Elijah come back and he told them no that that was John the Baptist. There are many references, actually, and as you grow in understanding they are easier to spot. Our emotions tie us to the earth plane. Those things we feel strongly about, those things we are obsessed with, those things we are overly curious about. Incarnating is always our choice. We will keep coming back and until we wake from this dream and know Who We Really Are! Our lack of forgiveness of ourselves or others. When we can totally release our judgments about anything and everything, we will find it unnecessary to return unless we choose to come back to help others. Whatever we've done, we've done because our soul has urged us to do it. For the emotional data gained from that experience. Better shut me up now, cuz I could talk about this all night! LOL. Peace! ~RB
10/15/2008 8:12:47 AM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
geep128 Port Charlotte, FL age: 65	Making my post a little shorter..... read "Many Mansion II" by Gina Cerminara It can be found thru the Association of Research and Enlightenment ( A.R.E. ) This book could possably cover all the situations made in this post. It is taken from the Edgar Cayce files ( Sleeping Prophet, There is a River, Many Mansions, etc. ) The ARE has a great selection of books available on many subjects in this realm of study
10/15/2008 6:13:31 PM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
wolfyhp Atascadero, CA age: 37	I believe we each live the life we need to learn the lessons we need for our advancement. Each path is individual and varies more as we progress. I also do not believe that reincarnation is necessarily limited to our concept of linear time; ie; your next life could be 1000 years ago or even 1 million years ago as a dinosaur or something else. Only when we achieve enlightenment are we freed from samsarra, rebirth, and able to become whatever is next. I don't necessarily think we're all headed to the same goal, but most of us have similar enough goals, or complimentary enough goals, that we were put here together. Namaste, Daniel
10/19/2008 1:38:58 PM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
pendragon_first Reno, NV age: 58	this post is in two parts with this being Part 1 and Part 2 following. Unfortunately, I could not answer the question in less than 7500 words - neal I can give you the definitive scientific answer to reincarnation. There is a chemical substance that is a part of many molecules called the Indole Ring. This is believed to be a compound responsible and related to telepathic phenomenon (telepathy and reincarnation ARE related). My guess is that the Indole Ring acts as a minature cyclotron, accelerating a carrier electron to the speed of light and flinging it out of our 3 dimensions and time along a 4th dimensional vector. The carrier electron can carry a one or a zero, just like a computer. The carrier electron hurled at the speed of light becomes the equivalent of an interdimensional radio wave signal. Thus, we transmit and receive via a 4th dimensional radio. I have in fact diagrammed this. Let us say that you are a one dimensional being with time moving in a one dimensional world. You are a line segment moving up and down a line. If you wish to transfer to another 1 dimensional world, (the intersection of two lines is a point - zero dimensions - and the bend moving from one to another constitutes a 2 dimensional bend). Got that? OK! Let's move on to a two dimensional universe plus time. Here you are a circle or square or some two dimensional shape living on this plane that goes off forever in two dimensions. Over time you move from one end of the universe to another and get tired of it and want to go to another 2nd dimensional universe. The intersection of two planes is a line (1 dimensional) and the bend of a two dimensional object moving from one plane to another constitutes a 3rd dimensional bend. Essentially, the formula is this. To move from n dimension 1 to n dimension 2 one must make collapse oneself to (n-1) dimensions while making an (n+1) bend. Thus, to tranmit radio waves out of the 3rd dimension they must be collapsed into a two dimension form and make a 4th dimensional bend. In fact, we know that a rocket ship approaching the speed of light collapses on itself: that is, the tail of it and the nose of it become in the same place. We know that this rocket becomes infinite, that is, once it is collapsed, it makes a 4th dimensional bend a slips from one 3rd dimension universe plus time to another 3rd dimensional universe plus time. That's the gist of what is happening in a simplified mathematical view of space, time and matter. For example, think of a computer network. This network of interconnected intelligence is much like the internet, only bigger and smarter. For example, think of the human brain. Here you have trillions of individual cells interconnecting but unlike the internet, one consciousness is formed. We all have a form, call it a spirit or a computer program, residing on this internet. When we are born, we manifest that program in the three dimension world with time. When we are born, we plug into a port, or, get an IP address. At the other end of that port is a hard drive that records everything that goes back and forth. When we die, we disconnect from the port. Then, we might reconnect to the same port or to another port. Let's say we connect to another port. Now, if we learn to communicate with the collective unconscious (only unconscious to each individual; to itself it is conscious), we can turn our consciousness inward and play back some of the hard drive on the port where we are connected. Voila! Past life regression. Now an individual can review the lives of people who have connected to that port in the past. Let's say we are a little advanced and we can not only review the hard drive, but we can send information on this internet to another IP address. Voila, you have now explained Telepathy, Remote Viewing and a score of other psychic phenomenon. [Edited 10/19/2008 1:55:51 PM ]
10/19/2008 1:50:04 PM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
pendragon_first Reno, NV age: 58	Continued from earlier post: Now, let's say the collective unconscious wished to manifest it's own program as a mortal to visit with other mortals and answer some questions for them. Voila, you have Jesus. We are made in God's image? Yes, we are trillions of individual intelligence units combined to create one consciousness which is the structure of God or the collective unconscious as Carl Jung put it. Let's say you are the Dalai Llama. You and your followers have developed such a keen ability to 'surf the internet' that you can choose who you will be reincarnated as and your followers will all know what your choice was. Thus a baby is born and yet the wisest of men know already who that baby is. Some have heard of the Masons and the ultimate being a 33rd degree Mason. Not true. The 1st degree through the 32nd degree each defined by a milestone of learning and wisdom and ability. At the 33rd degree, the person has now discovered accessing this internet or collective unconscious. In fact, there are Masons about to the 99th degree. For the uninitiated, everyone is told there are only 33 degrees but in fact everyone who is a 33rd degree Mason is in fact somewhere between 33rd degree and 98th degree inclusive. Technically, you have to BE the collective unconscious to get to the 99th degree and only Jesus was a man and the collective unconscious. Although many religions decry they are the only true religion, in fact, that is just lesser mortals seeking power bandying meaningless words. Most religions teach about the collective unconscious and tyrants and egomaniacs attempt to alter the meaning to their own agenda. However, throughout time, the collective unconscious returns peoples awareness to the truth. Thus the spiritual world is the world of the collective unconscious. Some learned men who would be 33 degree masons or higher resent that there is a greater intelligence and a greater power, so these people although knowledgeable about communicating with the collective unconscious teach people that there is no such thing. Thus they can have people answer to them and not to a higher power. What is the purpose of reincarnation? The purpose is to let our spirits (the angels) experience what it is like to be God. I believe the Hindu's talk of Samscara. We are born into the real world with fears and desires and understanding the collective unconscious is a matter of overcoming fears and desires. Reaching Nirvana is a matter of overcoming fears and desires. Nirvana is the equivalent of Heaven. It is a graduated state of one who understands the mind of the collective conscious and is not simply obedient to it. Reaching this state requires learning to cause and effect of your choices and ultimately letting go of all fear and desire. Fear and desire bind the spirit to returning to the material world. The Buddhists call it Karma and the Hindu's call it Samscara, but it is the culmination of the things you failed to learn in your last lifetime. I believe that as a person gets higher in this cosmic realm, they gain more power. They can choose who they will be, who their parents will be and so on. A person who has not evolved at all is less in control and the collective unconscious makes those choices for them. As a person exceeds the 32nd degree, they gain power. This however may be power consistent with the collective conscious (it doesn't like me to call it the unconscious since it is conscious and it is we who are unconscious of our role in it but receive subconscious ideas from it) or it may be a power used to secure power in the material world. Those who wish to rule the material world can also become very advanced but their goals are contrary to the purpose of the collective conscious. If you think of your body as the collective conscious (you are in the image of God), then imagine brain cells that want to do their own thing; they want to control what is going on. Yet they are only working to serve their own cell. This is what we call a cancer. So, this multidimensional being like human beings is always forming new cancerous cells. Then, immune cells destroy the cancerous cell and thus the body stays healthy. So it is that the programs of those spiritual beings that want no more than to rule others in the material world become targeted by antibodies designed to defend the collective conscious. There you have it. Telepathy, past life regression, reincarnation, all religions are simply effects of being a part of the collective conscious. POST SCRIPT Common (and uncommon) substances that contain high levels of the indole ring include Tryptophan, Serotonin, LSD, mushrooms (all), milk, and turkey that I know of. Pharmaceutical companies are now distributing pharmaceuticals that inhibit the production of serotonin and the metabolization of Tryptophan. I suspect this is being engineered by someone higher than a 32nd degree Mason who wishes to rule the Earth and to get the project off the ground, he is working to sever the connection between human life and the collective unconscious by disrupting the mechanisms by which they communicate with each other. [Edited 10/19/2008 1:54:25 PM ]
10/19/2008 2:26:40 PM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
pendragon_first Reno, NV age: 58	Part Three: addendum Getting back to interdimensional tranference and the classic example of the rocket ship that approaches the speed of light. The Rocket ship is a 3 dimensional object in time. As it approaches the speed of light, the tail and the nose of the rocket ship are in the same location; i.e. the three dimensional object has become two dimensional or by our formula, to move from a 3 dimensional universe to another 3 dimensional universe the object must beoome one dimension less (2 dimensional) and make a 4th dimensional bend. The rocket has become 2 dimensional. According to the theory of relativity, when the rocket reaches the speed of light it becomes infinite. That is, it exceeds the boundaries of a 3rd dimensional universe. This is the act of making a 4th dimensional bend. Thus it is that transmissions are made on the cosmic internet that modern science has yet to understand, or at least publicly talk about. We do this in our brain with electrons to transmit and receive data. The difference between synchronicity and serendipity is that synchronicity is not an act of will nor a faculty. Serendipity is a faculty, like the ability to see, smell, touch or hear. For ages it has been known that humans have the faculty of Serendipity. Thus it is that you think of someone you haven't seen for a long time just before you bump into them; or you know things that are infinitely impropable to explain away as some reasoning process. The psychic power is something we all had and have just forgotten about. [Edited 10/19/2008 2:31:01 PM ]
10/20/2008 3:27:00 AM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
pendragon_first Reno, NV age: 58	PART FOUR Before I conclude this lengthy essay, there are more unanswered questions I need to address. Ultimately, while we often feel the growing pains of overcoming our fears and desires in many lifetimes, the collective consciousness is ultimately merciful. There is NO hellfire and damnation. Everyone gets what they want. Those who are a cancer on the collective unconscious are not destroyed; They want conformity. They want to work all the time. They are contemptuous of sexuality. They love to go to war. They are insensitive. Efficiency is all important. Hierarchy is paramount. They answer to a worldly authority only. They want to eventually be the superior race. They want to RULE THE EARTH. Perhaps you still believe in the storm of hell? Actually, it is the Hellstrom. The Hellstrom Chronicle. It tells how ants will someday rule the Earth. God, or the collective conscious gives these cancerous beings that choose to sever themselves from the unity that is the collective conscious, and the collective conscious gives them all the things on the list above that they value. He turns them into sexless worker ants, ruled by b*tch queen ants who determine how their lives will be spent. This should put to rest the question of who gets reincarnated as an ant. Neal [Edited 10/20/2008 3:32:11 AM ]
10/20/2008 5:58:46 AM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
alicekathleen Sacramento, CA age: 65	I am with Wolf. I believe our lives are here and now, as sentient beings. We do continue to be part and parcel of the universe after this body passes away, but not in a sentient form, as a mineral form. Our karma in this life is real, and we do have great power for change and transformation. Perhaps these changes might be called re incarnation, for as we live and progress in our growth, we are and are not the same person that we were in our childhood or youth.
10/20/2008 8:51:16 AM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
pendragon_first Reno, NV age: 58	Really. Then how do you explain telepathy. I explain it as radio transmissions from one 3rd dimension to another. Do you have an explanation, or do you deny the existence of it simply because it does not fit your paradigm?
10/20/2008 8:55:40 AM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
pendragon_first Reno, NV age: 58	As far as Karma in this life (as opposed to a previous life), are you saying that babies born to be devastated in war deserved it because they earned the Karma in this life, or that those who live the life of Reilly thanks to imperialist policies of repression, subversion, slave labor and the co-opting of resources deserve the plenty they wallow in. Or perhaps you think the Indian People of America deserved to be wiped out for how they lived in their life before the genocide for land took place. You can't be serious that you believe Karma is related to this lifetime. Does a child that has its arms and legs blown off by a landmine for what they have done as a baby? Does a kidnapped child deserve the torment and psychological scarring for his life between the time he was born and when the tragedy occurred. Perhaps the time is nigh to listen to that little voice of sanity that has been trying to make itself heard in your head. No need to fear it and silence it and no good will come of it anyways. Please explain your reasoning. I cannot fathom from where it comes. [Edited 10/20/2008 9:01:23 AM ]
10/20/2008 8:59:09 AM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
pendragon_first Reno, NV age: 58	Add to part four written earlier as the list of desires of those who wish to sever their ties with the collective conscious: They don't want to think (ants don't have too: their wish is granted!)
10/20/2008 11:14:16 AM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
alicekathleen Sacramento, CA age: 65	Not sure what is my paradigm. Feel that much is unknown, and feel drawn to both Taoist and Buddhist thought. Member of Buddhist church. (Pure Land). Have read about collective unconsciousness, Jung, and the collective consciousness would perhaps be evolution itself. Not an original thought, first read about it in an Indian novel.
10/20/2008 4:26:44 PM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
pendragon_first Reno, NV age: 58	You stated your paradigm. Our Karma for this lifetime is what we do in this lifetime.
10/20/2008 4:45:17 PM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
pendragon_first Reno, NV age: 58	Ironic, isn't it that I should scientifically explain the existence of the collective unconscious and that you on faith to a system that is commercially driven to deny this on faith in that established order. Summarizing: I explain the geometry of interdimensional movement. I explain the relationship of the Theory of Relativity in implementing this movement. I explain the use of carrier electrons just as computer systems use 1's and 0's for communication. I describe what little is known regarding the brain chemistry where this all takes place. I inter-relate all religions and psychic phonomenon including reincarnationa and past life regression to this natural but hidden from view system. Find out for yourself. Get the I Ching. I can be used to access the collective unconscious, but only if you are sincere and not wishfully thinking for the answer you want to hear. Throw the I Ching after asking the question: Is Neal's explanation of all allegedly supernatural phenomenon a valid explanation for reincarnation, past life regression, telepathy, serendipity, Jesus, the Dalai Llama and ALL religions as they were originally founded. I say as originally founded because it goes without saying that once a religion, which is a power structure that controls and influences masses, has become popular, it becomes a tool for those who wish to tyrannize and control and therefore gets twisted. The current Judeo Christian religions, like Hitler, are all instruments of the patriarchal society that would have you believe that your life starts and stops here. Being nothing but inanimate chemicals reacting, genocide and atrocities like the destruction of indiginous cultures can be discounted as evolution. The matriarchal societies like Wicca and Paganism knew differently. The Buddhists and Hindus have not lost touch with this aspect of the Matriarchal society, though they may have other flaws of which I am unaware. They burned witches at the stake to try and destroy individual access to higher powers. Current Christianity loathes witchcraft as evil, when in fact there is nothing evil about it and it is current popular Christianity which is evil. I repeat, the Dalai Llama can choose who he reincarnates as and his followers know who that will be. Jesus was the manifestation in human form of the collective conscious. Jesus said you must be born again. He WAS NOT talking about the silly people who say they have found Jesus and are born again. He was talking about reincarnation. He said you will not come to the father but through me (a patriarchal translation that elevates men, but the inner meaning is unaffected). He was saying that to remain a part of the collective unconscious you must do the right thing and he gives advice to teach people how to discern right from wrong. He did not say that those who do not come to the father (i.e. those who are severed from the collective unconscious) will burn in hell. As I explained earlier, they'll simply become the worker ants who inherit the earth. He said that those who do come to the father will come through him (because he is the embodiment of the collective conscious). Most of all I marvel at the ridiculous interpretation that being 'born again' is something that happens in this lifetime. It does not. It happens in the NEXT lifetime. Of course, if you believe like I do, you risk being burned at the stake. [Edited 10/20/2008 5:01:50 PM ]
10/20/2008 5:06:21 PM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
pendragon_first Reno, NV age: 58	Once you have consulted the I Ching, tell me what it says to you. If you get the 3rd edition of the Wilhelm Translation, Carl Jung in his forward makes inquiries of the Oracle asking the Oracle about itself. Edgar Cayce knew how to access the collective conscious. Carl Jung knew how to access the collective unconscious. Among the founding fathers were many free-masons who specialized in accessing the collective conscious. Anyone who wants to can access the collective conscious, for now. Do not bother to waste my time telling me that Serendipity is statiscally a probability. I have seen car accidents occur four hundred miles away with remote viewing. I can scan people's minds and know their hearts. Yet I am no great power. I can search the collective conscious for knowledge like you might search the internet. Anyone can do what I do. It may take several lifetimes however, as the Hindu's and the Buddhists know. Like a baby learning to walk, first one must crawl. [Edited 10/20/2008 5:10:19 PM ]
10/20/2008 6:07:48 PM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
wolfyhp Atascadero, CA age: 37	Apparently the Mexica (Aztec) believed that after going through the 9 levels of the underworld (including the level of the obsidian blade winds where your sins basically come at you as obsidian blades and make it difficult to get through) you end up in the lowest level (and I presume stay there.) HOWEVER: They also believed that warriors who died in battle and women who died in childbirth follow the sun for a period and then turn into hummingbirds or butterflies. Namaste, Daniel
10/30/2008 3:47:31 PM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
4evr6y Morgan, VT age: 68	i beleive in repersonalization not in reincarnation... from TUB 5. SURVIVAL OF THE HUMAN SELF p1232:2 112:5.1 Selfhood is a cosmic reality whether material, morontial, or spiritual. The actuality of the personal is the bestowal of the Universal Father acting in and of himself or through his manifold universe agencies. To say that a being is personal is to recognize the relative individuation of such a being within the cosmic organism. The living cosmos is an all but infinitely integrated aggregation of real units, all of which are relatively subject to the destiny of the whole. But those that are personal have been endowed with the actual choice of destiny acceptance or of destiny rejection. p1232:3 112:5.2 That which comes from the Father is like the Father eternal, and this is just as true of personality, which God gives by his own freewill choice, as it is of the divine Thought Adjuster, an actual fragment of God. Man's personality is eternal but with regard to identity a conditioned eternal reality. Having appeared in response to the Father's will, personality will attain Deity destiny, but man must choose whether or not he will be present at the attainment of such destiny. In default of such choice, personality attains experiential Deity directly, becoming a part of the Supreme Being. The cycle is foreordained, but man's participation therein is optional, personal, and experiential. p1232:4 112:5.3 Mortal identity is a transient time-life condition in the universe; it is real only in so far as the personality elects to become a continuing universe phenomenon. This is the essential difference between man and an energy system: The energy system must continue, it has no choice; but man has everything to do with determining his own destiny. The Adjuster is truly the path to Paradise, but man himself must pursue that path by his own deciding, his freewill choosing. p1232:5 112:5.4 Human beings possess identity only in the material sense. Such qualities of the self are expressed by the material mind as it functions in the energy system of the intellect. When it is said that man has identity, it is recognized that he is in possession of a mind circuit which has been placed in subordination to the acts and choosing of the will of the human personality. But this is a material and purely temporary manifestation, just as the human embryo is a transient parasitic stage of human life. Human beings, from a cosmic perspective, are born, live, and die in a relative instant of time; they are not enduring. But mortal personality, through its own choosing, possesses the power of transferring its seat of identity from the passing material-intellect system to the higher morontia-soul system which, in association with the Thought Adjuster, is created as a new vehicle for personality manifestation. p1233:1 112:5.5 And it is this very power of choice, the universe insignia of freewill creaturehood, that constitutes man's greatest opportunity and his supreme cosmic responsibility. Upon the integrity of the human volition depends the eternal destiny of the future finaliter; upon the sincerity of the mortal free will the divine Adjuster depends for eternal personality; upon the faithfulness of mortal choice the Universal Father depends for the realization of a new ascending son; upon the steadfastness and wisdom of decision-actions the Supreme Being depends for the actuality of experiential evolution. p1233:2 112:5.6 Though the cosmic circles of personality growth must eventually be attained, if, through no fault of your own, the accidents of time and the handicaps of material existence prevent your mastering these levels on your native planet, if your intentions and desires are of survival value, there are issued the decrees of probation extension. You will be afforded additional time in which to prove yourself. p1233:3 112:5.7 If ever there is doubt as to the advisability of advancing a human identity to the mansion worlds, the universe governments invariably rule in the personal interests of that individual; they unhesitatingly advance such a soul to the status of a transitional being, while they continue their observations of the emerging morontia intent and spiritual purpose. Thus divine justice is certain of achievement, and divine mercy is accorded further opportunity for extending its ministry.
10/30/2008 10:41:45 PM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
wolfyhp Atascadero, CA age: 37	Quote from pendragon_first: Really. Then how do you explain telepathy. I explain it as radio transmissions from one 3rd dimension to another. Do you have an explanation, or do you deny the existence of it simply because it does not fit your paradigm? Telepathy is fairly simple to explain. Our brains emit various waves constantly. They can be detected by EEG machines. I believe that perhaps a person capable of telepathy has the ability in their brain to make sense of brain waves from other people, perhaps even waves we cannot detect with current equipment. Perfectly scientific, as is most "magic" eventually in my opinion. Now, as to the original topic of reincarnation, I pose some questions: Do any of you think that reincarnation is not or may not be linear? That is, one can be reincarnated in the past as well as in the future? Perhaps one might even be able to be reincarnated in different bodies in overlapping timelines! That might be freaky. I had a friend who proposed that we are all just one soul going all through time and living trillions and trillions of lives. He didn't mean as in one connected consciousness, but rather just one individual going through all these permutations. He also suggested that perhaps we are many souls, but that we all live as everyone and everything throughout time before we get a turn to live as God. Those would be scary endless thoughts. I hope to fulfill myself so that I am beyond samsarra. Namaste, Daniel
11/5/2008 9:37:17 PM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
nico420 Brookwood, AL age: 31	I 've been reading channeling sessions from Kryon, and I felt this an interesting expression of reincarnation: "After a period of Earth time, you may revisit the earth. Most of you do, for a lifetime on the planet is like a day in the life of a grander scheme. The grander scheme is an overview of hundreds of your lifetimes, and Spirit sees you not as a Human in this life, but as a timeless, sacred entity that is part of the family of God, working for Earth, who has been here over and over in different incarnations or "expressions of karmic energy." This is very difficult for you to understand and accept, for you think life begins at birth and ends at death. That is no more true than a perception of life beginning at dawn and ending at dusk. It continues and continues and each life is like a day in a grander life. You continue to awaken and sleep... over and over. You have called this process reincarnation. An expression of your Higher-Self again comes into the earth. It's the same Higher-Self, by the way. Think about that for a moment... many lives, many faces, both genders... same Higher-Self. It comes in as it has before and places the new energy as a beginning addition into the crystal that is yours. You are then born on this planet and you continue the journey seemingly as someone else. Then you live that life. When you're finished, what you experienced and learned becomes another ring on the crystal. Over time, this sacred crystalline structure is imbued with hundreds of rings of lifetimes. One Higher-Self, many lifetimes, many names and faces... all YOU. That is the essence of the Cave of Creation and the process of the Crystalline Grid. It's how it works. Whatever you do stays here on this planet and contributes to the energy of all humanity that will follow."
11/9/2008 11:14:31 PM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
th6231 Point Pleasant Beach, NJ age: 63	I didn't believe in reincarnation the first time I was here--but now I do.
11/10/2008 2:55:50 AM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
listenwhisper Belmont, NC age: 34	Man! Wow, are there some interesting idea's on reincarnation. I would like to weigh in here on what I believe to be the characteristics I have seen in my life on the subject. I believe that when we die we stay around our loved ones and things for a short time. I believe that when we make the journey to Summerland, we are extremely tired and confused. I believe that members of our families (Summerland families) tend to us while we are resting. I believe that on earth we can be man or woman, but in Summerland we can be seen as we would like, but most just simply choose to be the balls of energy they actually are. I believe that a man can be a woman in his next life, which in my mind accounts for the gay and bisexual community. They naturally want the same sex because just in their previous life they were sexually active males/females! I believe that you live around the same set of people in Summerland as you do in the physical world, and that in Summerland, there is no family, but attractive energy that play out a character in your life, or only one of your lives. I believe that you can choose to go back or never. It is not a forced situation. I believe that genius is nothing more than souls who rested in Summerland the least amount of time and spent much more time on earth. I believe that suicide is simply the soul/spirit saying "things have gone wrong here and I need to go home". I don't believe that suicide is ever pre planned before the reincarnation takes complete effect. I believe a suicide soul needs much much more rest time as they did not play out their life to the end and that is traumatic to a spirit. I believe that you are only offered lives next life that reflect your previous life i.e.: if you rape children, you will be raped in your next life. If you were rich and greedy, you will be poor and starving in your next life. I do not believe you are judged in Summerland unless you have affected the innocence of a living thing! I believe that everyone goes there, no matter what religion you are. I believe much more than this, if you would like to chat let me know!
11/10/2008 5:34:06 PM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
007shark Crystal River, FL age: 34	My beliefs on reincarnation coincide closely to moonshadow's. I believe each of us have an oversoul and undersoul. The undersoul is our present physical life. The oversoul carries all the memories of our past lives and experiences. The undersoul is unaware of the oversoul except for those whom have narrowed the gap. Deja vu, familiar places that you have never been to before in this lifetime, people that you seem to have known forever. Each lifetime's experiences become part of the oversoul.
11/18/2008 11:36:28 PM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
pendragon_first Reno, NV age: 58	See you all in another lifetime.
11/28/2008 11:14:53 PM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
tcpco Wellsboro, PA age: 40	Good post. Well first I do believe in reincarnation in some aspect. Although I do not believe we come back as an animal or anything like that. First I would like to start off by saying...""WE DON'T DIE"!! Our body dies but our souls live on. Our Light within. Each of us is a BEING of LIght Our Bodies are Just a vehicle for our souls. And in time the body wears out and we move on to another one in another lifetime. So that being said. Us as HUMANS are only here for a learning experience. So whatever we don't learn in this lifetime we will learn in the next. Thanks again for this post it was a good one. Namaste!!
11/28/2008 11:16:02 PM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
tcpco Wellsboro, PA age: 40	Yes I agree with you oo7 shark on the Deja Vu. [Edited 11/28/2008 11:16:30 PM ]
11/28/2008 11:36:07 PM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
ourself Hamilton, ON age: 38	Cool. Thanks for bringing this thread to the top again, Tcpco... And of course for starting it Tomiscluutch. I personally believe in reincarnation. But, I'd like to know how others view the idea of reincarnation. Do you reincarnate as a human? as an animal? What determines what you reincarnate as? And is their an ultimate goal to reincarnation? Well, I think the goal is reintegration into the whole as an Aware and Healed Whole. If you don't "know" that everybody else is a part of you, you still have Healing to do before We can have a Healed and Aware Whole. I think we've already been the other animals, plants and minerals. But I think if we leave this "place" Aware of how We are this Place, we can make a choice. We can come back as a Teacher to help speed up the Healing process of the Whole and if that ever tires and we want a break, I think we would be able to choose a different form for a Life or two. I think that's where reincarnating into an animal would come in. A routine breaker, so to speak for the ones who still wish to help rather than go into Nirvana. Of course, the Buddha (cheeky bugger as he was) decided that helping others was his Nirvana. I think that paradox made him see how We all have the potential to Wake up. But that's just my opinion. [Edited 11/28/2008 11:41:23 PM ]
12/27/2008 5:22:35 AM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
cricket128 Ocala, FL age: 58	I see this is an old thread, but I couldn't pass it up because from all the posts I've seen EVERYONE believes....and so I had to be the one post to speak differently. Are you all that gullible??? What makes you think - ie., where's the PROOF - that there is ANYTHING after you cease to exist??? As any other life-form, from a small amoeba, tree, snail, dog, cat, etc., etc., etc., up to a human-being - "Life" IS and then it isn't...end of story!!! We, as humans, are born, exist, and then cease-to-exist - PERIOD!!! This mythology of something going on after death is a perpetuation of a fable started eons ago by those that did not want to think that dying was the end...and so they made up this story about something called "heaven" in a wonderful fictitious book full of many stories and ideas to make humans believe there was something to "look forward to"....and humans bought the whole story because they wanted to believe...and it is passed down to this day, in pulpits et al.... sadly... And so, of course, this includes any other ridiculous belief that there is anything else, like reincarnation, happening after we die... Wake up, people - death is the end...PERIOD!!
12/27/2008 11:36:55 AM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
wolfyhp Atascadero, CA age: 37	Quote from cricket128: I see this is an old thread, but I couldn't pass it up because from all the posts I've seen EVERYONE believes....and so I had to be the one post to speak differently. Are you all that gullible??? What makes you think - ie., where's the PROOF - that there is ANYTHING after you cease to exist??? As any other life-form, from a small amoeba, tree, snail, dog, cat, etc., etc., etc., up to a human-being - "Life" IS and then it isn't...end of story!!! We, as humans, are born, exist, and then cease-to-exist - PERIOD!!! This mythology of something going on after death is a perpetuation of a fable started eons ago by those that did not want to think that dying was the end...and so they made up this story about something called "heaven" in a wonderful fictitious book full of many stories and ideas to make humans believe there was something to "look forward to"....and humans bought the whole story because they wanted to believe...and it is passed down to this day, in pulpits et al.... sadly... And so, of course, this includes any other ridiculous belief that there is anything else, like reincarnation, happening after we die... Wake up, people - death is the end...PERIOD!! To some it is apparent that death is the end because they perceive nothing beyond death occurring. To others it is apparent that death is absolutely not the end. Whatever your own experiences teach you and your interpretation of them is your right. However, you cannot possibly know the experiences of everyone here and why anyone believes what that one believes. To call people gullible because they disagree with your assessment of life is pure conceit. Each of us is a product of our own personalities coupled with our own experiences. Just because you lack sufficient reason to believe, doesn't mean you've seen everything in the universe nor that no one else can possibly have seen or experienced anything that would make them believe in life after death. Interpreting their own experiences differently than you interpret yours does not equal gullibility. For you, it's cold hard science: you can't prove or offer any proof of life after death, so it must not exist. Others accept that we don't have proof for everything that is true. Still others have seen evidence which they feel is sufficient proof of life after death and it is not your job to interpret that evidence for them, only for yourself. Namaste, Daniel
12/27/2008 4:08:35 PM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
moonshadow59 Mahomet, IL age: 51	Cricket128 Just cause this is not your belief does not give you the right to post about how gullible YOU think we are. “....and so I had to be the one post to speak differently.” Speak differently is fine. Say you do not believe and that death is the end for your way of thinking but you need not think for the rest of us. I really don’t know why you have decided to set yourself up as the almighty word. You mention heaven and pulpits. This is the other religion forum most here don’t even use those words. I would say your attitude belongs in the religion forum. That is where all of the fighting and name calling is. We are peaceful over here.
12/27/2008 4:34:45 PM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
ourself Hamilton, ON age: 38	The Mind is a funny thing. Who knows? Perhaps everyone is right. It could be possible that what you believe at the time of Death is what the Mind creates for you. If you believe you'll go to Heaven, maybe that's where you'll find yourself, and if you believe there is nothing, perhaps the Mind will close to you. You think Jesus or Amitaba Buddha will save you just by invoking their name? Thy will be done. This is why I think it's irresponsible to convert through fear as there will always be doubt. If you think you're going to some Hell, you just may find yourself in one of your own design. Personally, I will focus on helping in whatever capacity I can. If that means coming back here, I will come back here until at least half of Us Awaken to Our true Nature. Hey... You never know. [Edited 12/27/2008 4:37:27 PM ]
12/28/2008 7:22:23 AM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
wolfyhp Atascadero, CA age: 37	Quote from ourself: The Mind is a funny thing. Who knows? Perhaps everyone is right. It could be possible that what you believe at the time of Death is what the Mind creates for you. If you believe you'll go to Heaven, maybe that's where you'll find yourself, and if you believe there is nothing, perhaps the Mind will close to you. You think Jesus or Amitaba Buddha will save you just by invoking their name? Thy will be done. This is why I think it's irresponsible to convert through fear as there will always be doubt. If you think you're going to some Hell, you just may find yourself in one of your own design. Personally, I will focus on helping in whatever capacity I can. If that means coming back here, I will come back here until at least half of Us Awaken to Our true Nature. Hey... You never know. "Is this what happens when you die?" "No, this is what happens when you die, this is what happens when I die, that is what happens when they die. It's all very personal." (quote from the movie Beetlejuice)
12/28/2008 3:59:03 PM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
hannafree Freeport, ME age: 60	Sometimes it's so worth it to see what's going on in this site. I read this thread with fascination, exploring the belief systems from A to Z. I love the absolute surity (?sp) of some, and the openness to different possibilities of others. Whatever happens when we die, it's still a mystery. As I continue to build my own beliefs around this greatest of all questions, I'm finding that it really ALL might be true. Why not? We make of life what we put into it, why not death? Just another two cents of a possibility: that we exist in this dimension as a shared reality in this time and in this place. Time is a fabrication of ours that we use to structure our daily experiences, and this lifetime is a reality we chose to come into to do our "work". Here's where I get fuzzy, and that's as far as I've taken it. Anyone have any thoughts on a shared reality as an incarnation?
12/28/2008 6:21:49 PM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
dunrich Brantford, ON age: 56	I find it difficult to be objective about re incarnation or Karma. I simply dislike both concepts , sure hope they are not true but do suspect some times they might be. To me, they represent a very legalistic approach to both life and God ( what ever you call God). Legalism, is what has driven me from Main Stream Christianity. Hard for me to put into words, but in a family, as parents, do we want a legalistic approach for our children? Is there not always an extension of forgiveness and forgetting with in a family, and are we not in a way just one big family after this life is over, should be aspiring to that in this life? Just my 2 cents worth anyway,lol, being a Canuck, thats only worth about 1.7 cents.
12/28/2008 6:27:58 PM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
raventalon Belleville, IL age: 50	Es gibt nichts nach diesem Leben. Kein Himmel, keine Hölle, keine Reinkarnation, kein Paradies. Staub kamen wir von und Staub, den wir zurückbringen. Es gibt keine solchen Sachen wie Seelen oder Geist.
12/28/2008 6:56:55 PM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
dunrich Brantford, ON age: 56	In English:There is nothing after this life. No sky, no hell, no reincarnation, no paradise. Dust we came from and dust which we bring back. There are no such things like souls or mind Raventon. So thats all there is my friend? Kind of a sad song . L'âme de .The comme l'amour, ne meurt jamais . [The soul like love, never dies.] [Edited 12/28/2008 7:06:38 PM ]
12/28/2008 7:03:21 PM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
bichela Winsted, CT age: 42	Quote from tomiscluutch: I personally believe in reincarnation. But, I'd like to know how others view the idea of reincarnation. Do you reincarnate as a human? as an animal? What determines what you reincarnate as? And is their an ultimate goal to reincarnation? I have heard it said, as has several here, that we come back several times to improve ourselves. Only one gotcha, How come we have no idea of what we were before? or what we learned before? To me that kind of defeats the purpose of starting a new life and building on what we learned. However... I have many skills that were not taught to me. One of them is I can do a mean load of laundry, with a washboard... by hand! its something I already knew how to do, I did not have training in this life in this process. it saves me lots of money in the summer. In the winter... I go to the laundrymat like everyone else. Sometimes I feel I am missing something. Paradise lost anyone? Seems my life was more fullfilled in a past life. I wonder why that is? Do I instinctually remember some of the past life expirences?
12/29/2008 5:54:03 AM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
wolfyhp Atascadero, CA age: 37	Quote from dunrich: I find it difficult to be objective about re incarnation or Karma. I simply dislike both concepts , sure hope they are not true but do suspect some times they might be. To me, they represent a very legalistic approach to both life and God ( what ever you call God). Legalism, is what has driven me from Main Stream Christianity. Hard for me to put into words, but in a family, as parents, do we want a legalistic approach for our children? Is there not always an extension of forgiveness and forgetting with in a family, and are we not in a way just one big family after this life is over, should be aspiring to that in this life? Just my 2 cents worth anyway,lol, being a Canuck, thats only worth about 1.7 cents. It's only a legalistic system to some. To others, you should live according to the path set out before you and you should live morally (don't hurt people if you can avoid it) but otherwise no dogma or legalism.
12/30/2008 8:10:54 PM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
dunrich Brantford, ON age: 56	To others, you should live according to the path set out before you and you should live morally (don't hurt people if you can avoid it) but otherwise no dogma or legalism OK, maybe I have this concept wrong. The way Karma has been explained to me is that you have no choice but to repay what you have done wrong. feeding a beggar can be considered wrong. It is because of Karma, they are suffering right? So what I was told is, if you feed them , then it just prolong their state until they 'pay" . My Hindu buddy told it to me this way. One day, he and his wife went past some homeless, guy, out of the blue, she told him to give the man 10 bucks for a meal. He explained it to me, that the persons Karmic debt, had probably been finally paid of, so his wife was ' told" to give him a meal. Is this an accurate description of karma? What about this living life over and over until we perfect it? To me, it just feels so legalistic, maybe I am just looking at it all wrong, but it is the feeling I get.
12/30/2008 10:27:44 PM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
shakti Red Deer, AB age: 37	Dunrich: I find it difficult to be objective about re incarnation or Karma. I simply dislike both concepts , sure hope they are not true but do suspect some times they might be. To me, they represent a very legalistic approach to both life and God ( what ever you call God). Legalism, is what has driven me from Main Stream Christianity. Hard for me to put into words, but in a family, as parents, do we want a legalistic approach for our children? Is there not always an extension of forgiveness and forgetting with in a family, and are we not in a way just one big family after this life is over, should be aspiring to that in this life? Karma is very much like you "reap what you sow".. which as you know does not exclude love and fogiveness... As in all things, you can pay attention to the spirit, or to the form/legality/dogma of it.. which is of course specific to whichever system (ego on a large scale imo) happens to be adopting that particular truth.. Truth is truth regardless of its packaging, but that is just how I see it.. and if you look, the idea of karma and reincarnation repeats and overlaps.. To be honest, if it weren't for my belief in reincarnation, believing that I CHOSE the terrible circumstances of my childhood, I would never, and I repeat, never have been able to forgive. It was unequivocally the hardest thing I have ever done, but it is also when my real life began. I don't think I was punished for doing something in a past life (although that could be).. it is an experience that I believe my soul chose so that I could learn, grow and ultimately, triumph. Without this belief, I would never have had the impetus to reach for it. If I am wrong? So be it, at least I LIVED a life, not a denial of life mired in hatred like I could have.
12/31/2008 6:24:52 AM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
wolfyhp Atascadero, CA age: 37	Quote from shakti: Dunrich: I find it difficult to be objective about re incarnation or Karma. I simply dislike both concepts , sure hope they are not true but do suspect some times they might be. To me, they represent a very legalistic approach to both life and God ( what ever you call God). Legalism, is what has driven me from Main Stream Christianity. Hard for me to put into words, but in a family, as parents, do we want a legalistic approach for our children? Is there not always an extension of forgiveness and forgetting with in a family, and are we not in a way just one big family after this life is over, should be aspiring to that in this life? Karma is very much like you "reap what you sow".. which as you know does not exclude love and fogiveness... As in all things, you can pay attention to the spirit, or to the form/legality/dogma of it.. which is of course specific to whichever system (ego on a large scale imo) happens to be adopting that particular truth.. Truth is truth regardless of its packaging, but that is just how I see it.. and if you look, the idea of karma and reincarnation repeats and overlaps.. To be honest, if it weren't for my belief in reincarnation, believing that I CHOSE the terrible circumstances of my childhood, I would never, and I repeat, never have been able to forgive. It was unequivocally the hardest thing I have ever done, but it is also when my real life began. I don't think I was punished for doing something in a past life (although that could be).. it is an experience that I believe my soul chose so that I could learn, grow and ultimately, triumph. Without this belief, I would never have had the impetus to reach for it. If I am wrong? So be it, at least I LIVED a life, not a denial of life mired in hatred like I could have. Well put. I don't see karma as a system of reward and punishment. I see it as the results of our actions. There's a difference. We are not "punished" for things we've done in the past, but just given circumstances to bring a balance so that we can continue to progress spiritually. As to the homeless man, I look at it as we are only responsible for our own karma. My own karmic concerns, as well as just my general nature, cause me to feed those who are hungry and clothe those who are naked (well, those who WANT clothes.) In Hinduism there is the concept of dharma. Dharma is what your path is in life based on your past lives. I don't believe in the clear cut system that Hinduism has developed (and which was used to justify the horrors of the caste system) but I do believe that we all have an essential nature to which we need to be true. Some of us were meant to be plumbers and those should be the best plumbers they can be. Some of us were called to the priesthood (such as myself) and we should be the best priests we can be. My nature is to do without if it means helping someone else. To act contrary to that nature would be bad karma. Others have the nature to help a little when they can, but see other concerns as more primary. They should follow their nature. Namaste, Daniel
12/31/2008 2:24:52 PM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
ourself Hamilton, ON age: 38	Wolfy; "Well put. I don't see karma as a system of reward and punishment. I see it as the results of our actions. There's a difference. We are not "punished" for things we've done in the past, but just given circumstances to bring a balance so that we can continue to progress spiritually." I agree. Reincarnation to me is not about punishment in the slightest. It's about growth.
1/2/2009 4:54:22 AM	The different ideas and thoughts on reincarnation!
dunrich Brantford, ON age: 56	Karma is very much like you "reap what you sow".. which as you know does not exclude love and fogiveness... Well, guess I should point out, my doubts about kharma do not stop there. The Bibical so called " Christian " equivalent of this concept, the "reap what you sow", is not something I have ever seen proof of either.In fact I see many examples in the Bible, where God himself allowed reapers to keep on reapin, and sowers who only got to sow,,, In fact, some real life famous examples , the reaper types have to self detruct them own selves to get what they deserve! Come on , if there was some kind of " supernatural justice system' in place, half of these dating sites would be closed down for lack of business! [Edited 1/2/2009 4:58:32 AM ]

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