The Reward System Has Been Cancelled...

12/29/2008 10:56:22 PM	The Reward System Has Been Cancelled...
burnkitty Fayetteville, AR age: 33	I’ve noted one problem that I’ve personally had with religion over time, and that is the use of a reward system as a basis for obedience. In the case of an afterlife, if one obeys a set of defined parameters then one goes to Goody-Good Land. And some of them have the alternative to annihilation after death with the looming threat of Bady Place(for the less than cooperative). In the Jewish faith, an afterlife is not the motivation, but a pact with their deity. In the days of obedience, there is prosperity for their people, otherwise there comes hard times until they correct themselves. Either way it seemed like bribery to me. However, there was a good point made in a biblical story that I thought levelled it all down for me. It was the story of the prodigal son, and not specifically him, but his brother. See the brother had been obedient the entire time, yet received no praise for doing so. The prodigal son had only come back because he had nothing else. Still, to the disbelief of the brother, the father celebrated his return without condition. In a side discussion with the father and brother, he asked why not once was his faithfulness celebrated. He had done everything that was asked of him, hadn’t he? The father’s reply was that they shouldn’t be doing this for the sake of expectations, but because it was the right thing to do. If nothing else in a biblical perspective, I like that. It seems to me that if your personal motivation for doing the right thing is to reach Goody-Good Land or to dodge Bady Place, then maybe you’re not really obedient, just afraid. Consider this then, what if your religion was exactly the same in every way except for one difference: It guarantees that there is no life after death nor any reward outside of personal satisfaction. Would you still worship a ‘god’ or ‘gods’ without expectation of reward? If so, why? If not, why? And, as always on my threads, keep it civil or find another thread. The religious and non alike are welcome to discuss this topic in a cultured manner, but all others will be blocked. Try me. I triple dog dare you... tongue on the metal pole in middle of winter and all that...
12/29/2008 11:01:25 PM	The Reward System Has Been Cancelled...
sharedmercy Fort Wayne, IN age: 53	My friend even if someone explained this to you, without you having God's Spirit of Truth, you wouldn't understand. I am not insulting you, I am just telling you the truth. God says that it will rain on the believing and the unbelieving, but the mysteries of His Word is reserved for those that believe in Him and His gospel (good news). Thanks.
12/29/2008 11:08:21 PM	The Reward System Has Been Cancelled...
polyaes Portland, OR age: 32	It seems that I need some kind of obedience to post on your thread.
12/29/2008 11:11:30 PM	The Reward System Has Been Cancelled...
caleb9 Billings, MT age: 46	Quote from polyaes: It seems that I need some kind of obedience to post on your thread. LOL!!!
12/29/2008 11:12:36 PM	The Reward System Has Been Cancelled...
burnkitty Fayetteville, AR age: 33	You are speaking to an ex-christian, so I am insulted. The 'It's A Christian Thang, You Wouldn't Understand' statement does not even come close to the criteria. You seem to have dodged the subject matter entirely to make a personal slash at my character. Either tackle the question, Shared, or find another thread. People aren't stupid or unempathetic because they do not share your exact veiwpoint, thank you very much.
12/29/2008 11:18:59 PM	The Reward System Has Been Cancelled...
caleb9 Billings, MT age: 46	Quote from burnkitty: You are speaking to an ex-christian, so I am insulted. The 'It's A Christian Thang, You Wouldn't Understand' statement does not even come close to the criteria. You seem to have dodged the subject matter entirely to make a personal slash at my character. Either tackle the question, Shared, or find another thread. People aren't stupid or unempathetic because they do not share your exact veiwpoint, thank you very much. People are also not obligated to prove you wrong about things you've already made up your mind about. Either you are so dire about being convinced otherwise, or you just want to kick up dirt to end up proving your own selfish point. Dude...you're a bore.
12/29/2008 11:34:25 PM	The Reward System Has Been Cancelled...
sharedmercy Fort Wayne, IN age: 53	Quote from burnkitty: You are speaking to an ex-christian, so I am insulted. The 'It's A Christian Thang, You Wouldn't Understand' statement does not even come close to the criteria. You seem to have dodged the subject matter entirely to make a personal slash at my character. Either tackle the question, Shared, or find another thread. People aren't stupid or unempathetic because they do not share your exact veiwpoint, thank you very much. There was NO insult intended. You are wanting answers without the blessing of God's Truth. HIS Word says it won't happen, NOT my words. If you are an ex-Christian why do you care? You are either still searching or you are wanting to cause trouble my friend. Don't worry I have nothing else to post here. TY for allowing me to "dodge" the subject. Blessings in your search
12/30/2008 1:25:56 AM	The Reward System Has Been Cancelled...
clarencec South Yorkshire United Kingdom age: 51 online now!	And, as always on my threads, keep it civil or find another thread. The religious and non alike are welcome to discuss this topic in a cultured manner, but all others will be blocked. Try me. I triple dog dare you... tongue on the metal pole in middle of winter and all that... A thread about obedience in exchange for reward, with a warning at the bottom to control the behaviour of respondents. Compliance or banishment to the Hell of being blocked. Off putting..
12/30/2008 2:33:41 AM	The Reward System Has Been Cancelled...
dumbdotcom Debert, NS age: 81	ok, I'll bite... The father’s reply was that they shouldn’t be doing this for the sake of expectations, but because it was the right thing to do. For me, it's a fine example of my perception of what reality IS. Love is the motivation here, plain and simple. Forgiveness too. I have messed up countless times in my lifetime. Am I to be thrown away? Am I worthless because of the countless mistakes I've made? Thank the Universe, people in my life didn't think so. As a parent myself, no matter what the transgression, my children are precious and I will always let them know that. I very much believe in accountability; if not in this life, then in another. I can only show my children that their existence counts, good and bad decisions, and that the compassion shown to them is hopefully a lesson that they will use in their own lives. An "eye for an eye" is a pointless thought construct. It only engenders false righteousness and fear based living. My friend even if someone explained this to you, without you having God's Spirit of Truth, you wouldn't understand. I am not insulting you, I am just telling you the truth. God says that it will rain on the believing and the unbelieving, but the mysteries of His Word is reserved for those that believe in Him and His gospel (good news). With all due respect, it sure sounds insulting, to me. So are you saying that if you don't believe in God of the Bible, then the concepts of Love, forgiveness and Grace will not be shown to you? I vehemently disagree. God would not limit His blessings to just His "chosen". What kind of God do you worship girl? Hardly seems like an all loving, omniscient anything, but rather, a jerk. But, I'm reminded of my Mom, who to this day still reminds me that Love is it's own reward. Everything works out as it should, just be mindful of your own actions. Cheers, Raven
12/30/2008 5:41:05 AM	The Reward System Has Been Cancelled...
stringsvrs Syracuse, NY age: 52	Brother Burn So good to see you my brother it certainly has been too long It seems to me that if your personal motivation for doing the right thing is to reach Goody-Good Land or to dodge Bady Place, then maybe you’re not really obedient, just afraid. Consider this then, what if your religion was exactly the same in every way except for one difference: It guarantees that there is no life after death nor any reward outside of personal satisfaction. Would you still worship a ‘god’ or ‘gods’ without expectation of reward? If so, why? If not, why? I do believe that I do what I do daily with no expectations other than to alleviate others distress. I seek no reward for when I make my transition And try to believe me when I say I do what I do for no financial gains either as I receive no paycheck I do not worship any God either. I do fellowship with many individuals who are God worshipers though; this does not hinder my joy though Peace, Love and Happy New Year
12/30/2008 9:34:32 AM	The Reward System Has Been Cancelled...
bigd9832 Bridgeview, IL age: 56	Wow, this one is almost as big of a mess as the word Soul. Was this the English Version you read when you were Christian? Or did you read the Bible at all? In the King James Version here is the list of Hebrew words that are translated as reward. priy `eqeb shillumah gammad gmuwl p`ullah seker sakar shachad 'achariyth mishbath 'ethnan shuwb shilluwm maskoreth shalam The meanings to these words are so varied and so diverse, I can not image how these could all represent the one English term reward. So if this is how you have been interpreting the Bible, I can see why you are confused. Some of these words mean 'consequences.' God has set up this reward/punishment system. Yet this is an impartial system. Just becase certain things seem desirable to us, we consider them rewards. The Ancient Text calls them consequences. Proverbs 23:7 For as a man thinketh in his heart, so shall he be It seems that God has given us the choice. But you were quoting from the New Testament, right? Let's see how is word bodes in Ancient Greek. Reward comes from... misthos - wages apodidomi - to give away, deliver axios - deserving, comparable or suitable katabrabeuo - to award the price against antapodosis - requital misthapodosia - requital (good or bad) Perhaps a more managable list. Wages is a good one. Wages come to you reguardless is you want them or not. Remember Judas and his 'wages' for identifying Jesus in the garden? Matt.5:12, Jesus is telling us to rejoyce over the wages we will recieve when we are persecuted. Matt.5:46 Love is considered a wage. Who doesn't want love? These are just a few of the meanings. I'm sure anyone can find more, if they look. But maybe you are right. Maybe, it's not the reward, or wages, that is important. Maybe righteousness is becoming reward-worthy. There are 5 wreaths mentioned in the Scriptures. Yet all of these wreaths are cast before Jesus. Revelations 4:10 Look at the prophicies in Revelations 2 & 3. Each church is offered a reward for the changes it makes. This reward system was something that God has put in place. No mear forum will change that. On a personal note... There are far worse things than getting blocked.I am much more concered about what my Lord thinks of me, than what you think.
12/30/2008 9:48:56 AM	The Reward System Has Been Cancelled...
skunkbreath Saint James, MO age: 89	I think people "worship" with some sorts of expectations...To me, any reward or punishment, overt or implied, is intimidation by a mind of a thuggish terrorist, whether it be human or god. And since the bible is a human construct, as is god, then this reward/punishment thuggery is manipulation my intimidation by people, the writers and the present day followers. I make an effort to respect life and Earth, if that is worship, because of no reward or punishment, but because it is the right thing to do. Damn, i hope this was "cultured" enough, not being sure what " cultured" is in the context of the "superstitious" forums...Can one be "cultured" and also be superstitious, ignorant, delusional, religiously arrogant and proud, and an ideologue ass?....If not, then you automatically eliminate the fundamentalist believers. And it will only be through contact with that perverse, retarded group that you will be able to measure your own perspectives and thank whatever god you have that you are not like them... ps: should we address you as mayor?..
12/30/2008 9:55:40 AM	The Reward System Has Been Cancelled...
burnkitty Fayetteville, AR age: 33	Nope, but I had a blast, Skunk. Good to see you back.
12/30/2008 10:49:24 AM	The Reward System Has Been Cancelled...
shakti Red Deer, AB age: 36 online now!	Burnkitty: I’ve noted one problem that I’ve personally had with religion over time, and that is the use of a reward system as a basis for obedience. Playing devil's advocate here (and why not, I am apparently seen as one of his "tools" anyway, lol).. I am finding it difficult to think of a motivation that DOESN'T involve some sort of reward... Imo the difference is in whether your motivation is for an intrinsic or extrinsic value. It seems to me that one is of the spirit, while the other, the ego.. I cannot imagine thinking that my ticket to heaven is secrure while looking around with pity at others because theirs isn't.. I have even seen some gleefully point out how others are hell-bound.. how could this possibly make people feel good?? If I thought that way I would feel constantly horrible!! Plus.. it all bespeaks of a rigid system, a heirarchy.. a God who is punitive and punishing.. a love that is conditional, ridiculous! If I am wrong? So be it.. for now I have a sense of intrinsic joy which is alright with me and the God of love I believe in : )
12/30/2008 4:25:48 PM	The Reward System Has Been Cancelled...
freezinoutside Scotts, MI age: 55	One of the best things about shopping for a God now days is the fact that they must compete for your belief dollars. In todays economy there are some great God deals out there and each one offers a slightly different emotional prize for your convictions.

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