Another sience vs. religion thang

2/11/2009 10:57:35 PM	Another sience vs. religion thang
treejock1 Hackettstown, NJ age: 39	I have a firm belief that mathmatics is the universial language. what ever exist's has a numerical value--my question is why is organized religion always so opposed to this concept?? Numbers can't lie or decieve, science is the language of truth, God gave us this so we could better understand ourselves. Why cant we combine the two??
2/11/2009 11:03:56 PM	Another sience vs. religion thang
grunfeld Dothan, AL age: 47	1) Which comes first: 3 or 4? 2) Which came first: 540 million years ago or 150 million years ago?
2/12/2009 12:28:51 AM	Another sience vs. religion thang
sharedmercy Fort Wayne, IN age: 53	Poly are you in one of your moods again I don't have a problem mixing the two, as long as one admits God invented mathematics. Thanks
2/12/2009 1:21:57 AM	Another sience vs. religion thang
rockondon Prince George, BC age: 36	my question is why is organized religion always so opposed to this concept?? Numbers can't lie or decieve, science is the language of truth, God gave us this so we could better understand ourselves. Why cant we combine the two?? Sadly, organized religion is against any attempt to understand creation. As you can see all over this forum, Christians loudly rebuke anyone who tries to learn, understand, or explain any facet of this beautiful existence. It appears that lies, ignorance and deceit are the keys into heaven, and anyone who uses the tools God gave him to understand is behaving very unchristian-like. Essentially, modern day Christians seem to look at Jesus and try to be the opposite - ignorant, dishonest, intolerant, arrogant, and hateful.
2/12/2009 5:16:57 AM	Another sience vs. religion thang
freezinoutside Scotts, MI age: 55	Mathematics causes a division that only multiplies the problem with the addition of more subtraction – and that’s a sum b*tch.
2/12/2009 8:06:25 AM	Another sience vs. religion thang
akforr3st7 Akron, OH age: 20	Perhaps God wants us to have faith in God, and I mean if it could be mathmatically proven that God exists would freewill (in the sense of following God's laws as perfectly as a person can) even exist, and how interesting would life be with out the variables of war and sin be over thousands of years to an omnipresent being? So since God created the universe and therefore wrote the laws of physics, which in this case math would fall into. Don't you think God would have made it impossible to scientifically prove Gods existance or if his hand played a role in history?
2/12/2009 8:34:07 AM	Another sience vs. religion thang
bigd9832 Bridgeview, IL age: 56	treejock1 said... my question is why is organized religion always so opposed to this concept?? I am not all that into 'organized' religion. But I have to ask you... Why do you think "organized religion always so opposed to this concept?" I have never run into anyone who opposes mathmatics. Did you? If so, what did they say? Are you worshipping Math? Is Math your god? Just asking.
2/12/2009 9:46:46 AM	Another sience vs. religion thang
julietromeo Paradise Inn, WA age: 60	Quote from akforr3st7: Perhaps God wants us to have faith in God, and I mean if it could be mathmatically proven that God exists would freewill (in the sense of following God's laws as perfectly as a person can) even exist, and how interesting would life be with out the variables of war and sin be over thousands of years to an omnipresent being? So since God created the universe and therefore wrote the laws of physics, which in this case math would fall into. Don't you think God would have made it impossible to scientifically prove Gods existance or if his hand played a role in history? yep. belief in god requires faith. requires not a shred of evidence. the psychology definition of "delusion" is a belief in a concept in spite of evidence for other possibilities. if you claim as fact that there is a god, you meet the definician of being deluded.
2/12/2009 7:17:26 PM	Another sience vs. religion thang
grunfeld Dothan, AL age: 47	Quote from freezinoutside: Mathematics causes a division that only multiplies the problem with the addition of more subtraction – and that’s a sum btch. "that's a sum btch." classic!
2/12/2009 8:12:20 PM	Another sience vs. religion thang
monty_python Bridgeport, CT age: 54	Quote from sharedmercy: Poly are you in one of your moods again I don't have a problem mixing the two, as long as one admits God invented mathematics. Thanks Oh really? And what scripture will you be providing us to prove this? Mathematics is a concept devised by man to better understand himself and the universe of which he is a part. Man is a creature that requires explanations. Mathematics provides that in that in helps formulate those explanations.
2/12/2009 8:16:30 PM	Another sience vs. religion thang
monty_python Bridgeport, CT age: 54	Quote from akforr3st7erhaps God wants us to have faith in God, and I mean if it could be mathmatically proven that God exists would freewill (in the sense of following God's laws as perfectly as a person can) even exist, and how interesting would life be with out the variables of war and sin be over thousands of years to an omnipresent being? So since God created the universe and therefore wrote the laws of physics, which in this case math would fall into. Don't you think God would have made it impossible to scientifically prove Gods existance or if his hand played a role in history? An interesting argument......... So you claim to believe that war and sin are merely here as a source of entertainment to God? We are like some television show that God tunes in to catch when he is bored with other aspects of running the universe? We are merely like the toy soldiers and dolls we played with as children to God? He takes us out of the toybox in his playroom and dresses us up and marches us around?
2/12/2009 8:29:23 PM	Another sience vs. religion thang
lovesgod57 Waukegan, IL age: 51	Quote from julietromeo: yep. belief in god requires faith. requires not a shred of evidence. the psychology definition of "delusion" is a belief in a concept in spite of evidence for other possibilities. if you claim as fact that there is a god, you meet the definician of being deluded. So do you think that believing in suppositions, assumptions, and "fill in the gap" stories requires faith? What is faith? Trusting in what others are telling you is true. Even though there is no way you can ever varify the story. [Edited 2/12/2009 8:31:51 PM PST]
2/12/2009 8:29:40 PM	Another sience vs. religion thang
grunfeld Dothan, AL age: 47	**************************** sharedmercy: I don't have a problem mixing the two, as long as one admits God invented mathematics. **************************** The ancient Greeks, who were neither Christian nor Jewish, 'invented' a lot math, like geometry. The Muslims 'invented' a lot of math too, like algebra. The number system we use (0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, ...) is Arabic. [Edited 2/12/2009 8:32:22 PM PST]
2/12/2009 8:39:43 PM	Another sience vs. religion thang
lovesgod57 Waukegan, IL age: 51	Quote from grunfeld: **************************** sharedmercy: I don't have a problem mixing the two, as long as one admits God invented mathematics. **************************** The ancient Greeks, who were neither Christian nor Jewish, 'invented' a lot math, like geometry. The Muslims 'invented' a lot of math too, like algebra. The number system we use (0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, ...) is Arabic. I'd say this is an example of geometry.
2/12/2009 8:41:14 PM	Another sience vs. religion thang
grunfeld Dothan, AL age: 47	Quote from lovesgod57: I'd say this is an example of geometry. And? Compare the years, doofus. ******************************* Euclidean geometry is a mathematical system attributed to the Greek mathematician Euclid of Alexandria. Euclid's Elements is the earliest known systematic discussion of geometry. It has been one of the most influential books in history, as much for its method as for its mathematical content. The method consists of assuming a small set of intuitively appealing axioms, and then proving many other propositions (theorems) from those axioms. Although many of Euclid's results had been stated by earlier Greek mathematicians, Euclid was the first to show how these propositions could be fit together into a comprehensive deductive and logical system.The Elements begin with plane geometry, still taught in secondary school as the first axiomatic system and the first examples of formal proof. The Elements goes on to the solid geometry of three dimensions. Much of the Elements states results of what is now called number theory, proved using geometrical methods. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclidean_geometry) ******************************* Um, in your face! [Edited 2/12/2009 8:49:03 PM PST]
2/12/2009 9:13:24 PM	Another sience vs. religion thang
akforr3st7 Akron, OH age: 20	yes monty. kind of off point though. If you want to put it that way however toys and dolls don't have free will. I know its a sort of indifferent way to look at things. But why have the devil, or all of these religions, that leads to so much conflict. I would say that its to build character but why have so many of the young die, before charactor can develope. why not just make it completely clear that there is definatly a God in a way that everyone can see it? But I am interested in your theory, perhaps you can enlighten me. Also, Muslims beleive in the God of Abraham. same as Jews and Christians. so whats your point? However I think the post pertains to can you or can't you blend mathmatics with religion. why and why not. so excuse me for my ADD. And you know what, heres some of these
2/12/2009 9:19:26 PM	Another sience vs. religion thang
grunfeld Dothan, AL age: 47	So, while the ancient Greeks were 'inventing' geometry, logic, philosophy, and democracy, what were the Christians and Jews doing? Christians didn't exist yet, so we'll have to look at their forefathers, the Jews. Well, looks like the Jews weren't doing much but being conquered and writing mythology. Wow, how impressive [Edited 2/12/2009 9:22:32 PM PST]
2/12/2009 9:36:37 PM	Another sience vs. religion thang
akforr3st7 Akron, OH age: 20	you said muslims, I was addressing muslims, and fyi muslims came hundreds of years after Christianity.
2/12/2009 9:45:56 PM	Another sience vs. religion thang
dugydew Seattle, WA age: 47	Quote from polygonex: I did, several times on this site for the first time. Maybe that is what ultimately people think. I really think DH is a good measure of the general public. In terms of mathematics and logic, it seems it is considered to memorize it, impassioned, and yet, fallaciously extended: logic should be escaped from religion and removed as a tool from its investigation. Poly your getting closer. Still a little off the mark though! 1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
2/12/2009 10:00:24 PM	Another sience vs. religion thang
lovesgod57 Waukegan, IL age: 51	Quote from treejock1: I have a firm belief that mathmatics is the universial language. what ever exist's has a numerical value--my question is why is organized religion always so opposed to this concept?? Numbers can't lie or decieve, science is the language of truth, God gave us this so we could better understand ourselves. Why cant we combine the two?? True, God was never opposed to mathematics. Genesis 17:1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to him and said, "I am God Almight ; walk before me and be blameless. 2 I will confirm my covenant between me and you and will greatly increase your numbers."
2/12/2009 10:08:01 PM	Another sience vs. religion thang
dugydew Seattle, WA age: 47	Quote from lovesgod57: True, God was never opposed to mathematics. Genesis 17:1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to him and said, "I am God Almight ; walk before me and be blameless. 2 I will confirm my covenant between me and you and will greatly increase your numbers." Hebrews 6:14 saying, “Surely blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply you.”
2/12/2009 10:37:49 PM	Another sience vs. religion thang
lovesgod57 Waukegan, IL age: 51	Quote from dugydew: Quote from lovesgod57: True, God was never opposed to mathematics. Genesis 17:1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to him and said, "I am God Almight ; walk before me and be blameless. 2 I will confirm my covenant between me and you and will greatly increase your numbers." Hebrews 6:14 saying, “Surely blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply you.” That's another good one.
2/12/2009 10:39:29 PM	Another sience vs. religion thang
grunfeld Dothan, AL age: 47	That the ratio of the circumference to the diameter of a circle is the same for all circles, and that it is slightly more than 3, was known to ancient Egyptian, Babylonian, Indian and Greek geometers. [Hey, where are the Jews???] The earliest known approximations date from around 1900 BC; they are 25/8 (Babylonia) and 256/81 (Egypt), both within 1% of the true value.[3][Hey, where are the Jews????] The Indian text Shatapatha Brahmana gives p as 339/108 ˜ 3.139. The Tanakh appears to suggest, in the Book of Kings, that p = 3, which is notably worse than other estimates available at the time of writing (600 BC). The interpretation of the passage is disputed,[25][26] as some believe the ratio of 3:1 is of an interior circumference to an exterior diameter of a thinly walled basin, which could indeed be an accurate ratio, depending on the thickness of the walls (See: Biblical value of p). [Oh, yet another case where the Bible is wrong ... but not really ] Archimedes (287-212 BC) was the first to estimate p rigorously. [Archimedes was a Greek. Where are the Jews at???? He realized that its magnitude can be bounded from below and above by inscribing circles in regular polygons and calculating the outer and inner polygons' respective perimeters:[26] Liu Hui's p algorithm By using the equivalent of 96-sided polygons, he proved that 223/71 < p < 22/7.[26] Taking the average of these values yields 3.1419.[Chinese? Where are the Jews at????? In the following centuries further development took place in India and China. Around 265, [where are the Jews and the Christians at?????] the Wei Kingdom mathematician Liu Hui provided a simple and rigorous iterative algorithm to calculate p to any degree of accuracy. He himself carried through the calculation to a 3072-gon and obtained an approximate value for p of 3.1416. Later, Liu Hui invented a quick method of calculating p and obtained an approximate value of 3.1416 with only a 96-gon, by taking advantage of the fact that the difference in area of successive polygons forms a geometric series with a factor of 4. Around 480, the Chinese mathematician Zu Chongzhi demonstrated that p ˜ 355/113, and showed that 3.1415926 < p < 3.1415927 [where are the Jews and Christians at???? ] using Liu Hui's algorithm applied to a 12288-gon. This value was the most accurate approximation of p available for the next 900 years. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi)
2/13/2009 6:14:33 AM	Another sience vs. religion thang
monty_python Bridgeport, CT age: 54	Quote from akforr3st7: yes monty. kind of off point though. If you want to put it that way however toys and dolls don't have free will. I know its a sort of indifferent way to look at things. But why have the devil, or all of these religions, that leads to so much conflict. I would say that its to build character but why have so many of the young die, before charactor can develope. why not just make it completely clear that there is definatly a God in a way that everyone can see it? But I am interested in your theory, perhaps you can enlighten me. Also, Muslims beleive in the God of Abraham. same as Jews and Christians. so whats your point? However I think the post pertains to can you or can't you blend mathmatics with religion. why and why not. so excuse me for my ADD. And you know what, heres some of these I'm not offering up a theory here at all. Just trying to make sense of how an all powerful God wou follow would treat his ultimate creation like some kind of entertainment activity

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