Agnostics and the religious fringe 16

11/10/2007 6:16:02 AM	Agnostics and the religious fringe
kellytoo Moses Lake, WA age: 58	No kidding Queen. I would love a place where people discussed growth from their own experiences, not just from a book. Think outside of the box.
11/10/2007 11:41:08 PM	Agnostics and the religious fringe
queenofhearts61 Seymour, IN age: 62	Right back at cha PH. I am glad that we are friends though.
11/11/2007 11:07:02 PM	Agnostics and the religious fringe
queenofhearts61 Seymour, IN age: 62	Dustin hate to be a nagger but we do need someplace for the non religious, spiritual agnostic, nostics to meet. Thanks. The christians can not handle talking with any who are not anymore.
11/15/2007 6:40:17 PM	Agnostics and the religious fringe
phucq Panama City, FL age: 65	Hey Queen, I love that new picture, Rocket wants to know who your cute friends are.
11/15/2007 7:26:45 PM	Agnostics and the religious fringe
queenofhearts61 Seymour, IN age: 62	One your right is my baby Bitsy and on your left is her sister Weezy.
11/17/2007 1:31:30 AM	Agnostics and the religious fringe
queenofhearts61 Seymour, IN age: 62	Come on everybody we got to keep posting so we don't get lost in the forums past.
11/19/2007 5:51:46 AM	Agnostics and the religious fringe
phucq Panama City, FL age: 65	I can't figure out if DH is going to decide on new groups and eventually make them official, or if we are creating the new groups through a de facto process when we keeping certain threads going. If so, that's a crazy way to go about it, because we won't know when to stop debating the need for a topic and actually start discussing the topic.
11/19/2007 7:37:41 PM	Agnostics and the religious fringe
queenofhearts61 Seymour, IN age: 62	In one of the others PH we already started using it as a thread.
11/19/2007 9:25:10 PM	Agnostics and the religious fringe
yankeeluvspeach Athens, GA age: 29	I might as well through my hat in this ring. I've been an agnostic for so almost half of my relatively short life! I too would welcome a group where an open discussion and or posting could be done without worrying about a constant litany of rebuttals from one group or another trying to proselytize us into their group. As it stands right now, I can't post in any of the religious "Groups" I could change my classification to say christian or muslim and post in one of them, but I'm trying to respect their right to a little privacy and religious freedom. As far as slinky's comment about having a group for every little religion, I think we're far from that, and besides how does it really affect YOU negatively if I want to have a place to commemorate with my fellow zoroastrians. BTW PH, the faith of Zorothustra, if memory serves right was one inspirations for modern day judiasm/christianity. It's like latin in that it's extinct (oops, all but extinct, thanks WIKIPEDIA) now, but was one of the first religions to hold an idea that god(s) might have a moral code. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism I took a world religion class in highschool but was forced to move midway through the year so I missed out on the chance to delve into budhism, taoism and a lot of the so called Eastern religions. If nothing else, it might be fun to explore why each of us agnostics walked away from the faith we were originally raised with/exposed to. It'd be like free therapy. JK I do think we'd have to be careful not to make this into (as someone else pointed out earlier) a Christian (or whatever faith) bashing group, as it's easy to sometimes fall into the trap of defining one's self by what one isn't. Anyway, I hope dustin does give us "fringe" freaks a place to share without intrusion from other groups. Otherwise, why have groups at all as all it will force us to do is start posting on their threads, and pretty soon it will degrade into a shouting match, and no one wants that but the real FREAKS!!
11/19/2007 9:44:02 PM	Agnostics and the religious fringe
queenofhearts61 Seymour, IN age: 62	You are so right Lovespeach, I too do not want to go into the other religion threads and keep up the same as the normal one does. I have listed myself as other and I think that if we listed that way then we could all be in the same line of thinking.
11/20/2007 10:01:21 PM	Agnostics and the religious fringe
queenofhearts61 Seymour, IN age: 62	I cannot keep the interest in this up by myself guys.
11/21/2007 2:30:50 PM	Agnostics and the religious fringe
yankeeluvspeach Athens, GA age: 29	Sorry queen, I was focused on another thread recently. Didn't mean to leave you hanging. Here is my personal definition of what it means to be agnostic. You basically realize that there is no "PROVING" anything when it comes to matters of faith, as by definition, faith is belief in something, despite lack of proof. Thus, all of the big questions like "How did the universe begin? What happens when we die? Are there things that defy science and logic?" etc are essentually out of bounds of our abililty to comprehend. That's not to say that it's pointless to still look for truths. Just that you must constantly have on the skeptic's hat, and not confuse what you WANT to be true with what actually IS knowable. I personally WANT very much for there to be a guiding force, some kind of purpose, for all of this suffering and what not. But I do not have any Proof that that is the case, and so I resist the urge to simply "pick a team" so to speak. The agnostic realizes that any group, including atheism, is making a CHOICE, a decision to believe one way or another, without empirical evidence. And so, you take the road less traveled. You commit leaving yourself twisting in the wind, living without a security net, alone. That is NOT to say you live a life of immorality. An agnostic can and in my case, does still have an internal sense of right and wrong, gleamed from their experiences and yes partially from a faith of origin. I haven't "renounced" all the values of christ. I still hold that it is critical to love others as you want to be loved. I still beleive that this world is transitory and superficial. I still beleive in being a good person. I just don't do those things because of some fear of endless torture or in order to please someone I don't know exists. Here is now I metaphorically conceive of all of this and attempt to explain it to non-agnostics. Imagine you wake up in a room. There is a door to the room, but it's locked. There are an assortment of tools on a table. Also on the table are a series of spare electrical parts, plumbing peices, motor parts, name brand logos, etc. There is a card on the table that says simply, "build it." You don't know what IT is, but you start to work. You screw that nut on this bolt. you wire this nob to that circuit. You spend hours upon hours building this contraption, which turns out to be a Magnavox TV. Then the door opens and in walks this mystical figure all a glow. He/She/It takes one look at your tv and says, "I wanted you to build a '69 Mustang engine! You will now suffer eternally." That is how I conscieve of the god(s) of organized religion. They are expecting us to make a choice, and the RIGHT choice, without any clues, hints or guides, and the only thing that's at stake is our immortal soul. Frankly, I refuse to beleive in a god that is that CRUEL. I'm not playing that game. You're telling me I have to choose? well on you. I'm gonna shiv you with the screw driver when you walk in the door and find the real man/woman in charge. In short, I'm blowing your whole little test to kingdom come. You can send me to a lake of fire if it's within your means, but at least I MADE a choice that wasn't based on fear. I've always figured that if I was God, I'd be pretty pissed if people only believed in me because it seemed like a good insurance policy. I've heard several people say, "why not beleive in 'X' If you're wrong, and there is nothing after this life, what have you lost?" That to me, is not faith but rather cowardice. I realize not all religious people take that stand point. Hell, I admire some for their devotion/sacrifice. Wish I DID have the faith. But I don't. So I'm not going to choose one arbitrarily.
11/21/2007 2:32:25 PM	Agnostics and the religious fringe
yankeeluvspeach Athens, GA age: 29	now that I've gone to all that trouble to type that out, I'm gonna put it on my blog. Neiner neiner neiner!!
11/21/2007 3:37:24 PM	Agnostics and the religious fringe
queenofhearts61 Seymour, IN age: 62	Yankee very well said. I have to be real and cannot say I believe just because it is the thing to do. It is rather difficult to be honest here when the rest of the world has taken sides. But I have often been on the road less traveled and have led a remarkable life. I cannot say there is no Creator as a matter of fact think there is a better than even chance there is. But I also, dispite thier claim, think no body else knows either. Everyone, for their own reasons, believes what they choose to believe. I have been that person that used to think I knew for sure but then someone challenged me and asked me how I know. And in all honesty I had no answer except that is what I choose to believe.
11/21/2007 9:18:55 PM	Agnostics and the religious fringe
yankeeluvspeach Athens, GA age: 29	yeah, I mean if there was such a thing as incontravertable PROOF, who wouldn't follow where that lead. Sadly, or maybe beautifully, (depending on your perspective) God hasn't given us that much help one way or another. I too hope there is someone, but it's a hope more than an overwhelming certainty. Certainly SEEMS to be cases for god, but nothing conclusive. Plus, the presence of an alternative being doesn't also mean we will even know what her/his/it's traits are. Is it a vengeful god? a petty god? a loving god? I want/hope it's that last one, but I don't have any PROOF of that. All i can do, is be thankful for the love, gifts, etc. I have been given and try to do as much good as possible while trying to minimize the damage or bad that I do and hope that whoever/whatever will find my heart pure enough. Course, I was raised Lutheran, and they beleive humans being inherently flawed, it is only by the grace of god that you can achieve forgiveness. That may be the case, but I still don't want to support a god that would punish you eternally for guessing his name wrong. That's just me. Happy Thanksgiving everyone. And may WHATEVER is out there align things up so that if for only today (it's after midnight in Georgia) we all live without incident of suffering and can have many reasons to be truly thankful.

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