Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?

1/4/2013 12:14:53 AM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 65, joined Dec. 2010	(this post has been flagged as inappropriate, sorry.) Meet singles at DateHookup.dating, we're 100% free! Join now!
1/4/2013 12:09:04 PM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 65, joined Dec. 2010	I notice I am not getting any input by muslims, saying we are not lying, we are telling the truth about Muhammed and Allah.
1/4/2013 12:17:45 PM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
mr_majestic2u Wing, ND 54, joined Jul. 2012	bump
1/4/2013 10:47:28 PM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 65, joined Dec. 2010	A critical issue about Islam, and you can ask any muslim is to emulate the prophet muhammed. That is really f**ked up, and the reason we are having so many problems with muslims around the world. Muhammed was a thief, and it is Ok to steal from others that are not in your group. Muhammed was a murderer, You can basically kill whoever you want if you have a reason, and that cam be as trivial, as your daughter not wearing a Hijab. Muhammed was a pedophile. This is practiced even in todays times, It is OK, to be a pedophile in Islam.
1/5/2013 4:13:09 AM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
sail_dancer Saint Petersburg, FL 67, joined Apr. 2010	Quote from hercules60: Guess that is why they are lying muslims. Moohummid was a pedophile. Filthy The koroan instructs them to lie if it will further the cause of Islam the filthy religion! Just as Paul claims that it is OK for christians to lie to protect their christian dogma. Muslims lie about islam for the same reasons christians lie about christianity ..... why? ..... because myth is not reality ..... no matter how you may interpret it. Peace
1/5/2013 4:58:35 AM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
adameve Lacombe, LA 53, joined Jan. 2008	Quote from sail_dancer: Just as Paul claims that it is OK for christians to lie to protect their christian dogma. Muslims lie about islam for the same reasons christians lie about christianity ..... why? ..... because myth is not reality ..... no matter how you may interpret it. Peace Well Paul was knowing the heart of the man, TO KILL HIM< ASKS YOU THIS WILL NOT YOU LIE< TO SAVE YOUR LIFE? And for as Quran bible, the white man is the devil, its says that in it. The part many miss in it, The man who wrote there bible, is a light skin man, more of a white man. wow. can he say who you are? from your heart? or only his heart he can speak from?! Sorry if Paul lied, to save His life, But i will teach me kids, ONLY LIE TO SAVE YOUR LIFE SON< I UNDERSTAND< BUT AWAYS I HONESTY. If you thing that make me wrong, cause i don,t want my child to be killed. For talking about JESUS< IM SORRY. But we don,t kill anyone for there opinion. What makes us so wrong, that it should go as far as death?
1/5/2013 5:43:18 AM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
sail_dancer Saint Petersburg, FL 67, joined Apr. 2010	Quote from adameve: Well Paul was knowing the heart of the man, TO KILL HIM< ASKS YOU THIS WILL NOT YOU LIE< TO SAVE YOUR LIFE? And for as Quran bible, the white man is the devil, its says that in it. The part many miss in it, The man who wrote there bible, is a light skin man, more of a white man. wow. can he say who you are? from your heart? or only his heart he can speak from?! Sorry if Paul lied, to save His life, But i will teach me kids, ONLY LIE TO SAVE YOUR LIFE SON< I UNDERSTAND< BUT AWAYS I HONESTY. If you thing that make me wrong, cause i don,t want my child to be killed. For talking about JESUS< IM SORRY. But we don,t kill anyone for there opinion. What makes us so wrong, that it should go as far as death? Your posts show that you are not only ignorant ..... but seriously illiterate. So I'll pass on answering your questions. Peace
1/5/2013 8:20:15 AM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 65, joined Dec. 2010	Quote from sail_dancer: Just as Paul claims that it is OK for christians to lie to protect their christian dogma. Muslims lie about islam for the same reasons christians lie about christianity ..... why? ..... because myth is not reality ..... no matter how you may interpret it. Peace Personally I think they are all just plain stupid, But the differences between them are drastic, and they do have standing orders to kill you, me, and our families. Christians are annoying, but I can deal with them.
1/11/2013 5:40:10 PM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 65, joined Dec. 2010	I see, AGAIN, the muslims are avoiding another thread that has basic info and questions that can be debated. I contend Islam, from the very beginning, is one lie after another, and I am waiting for one of you muslims to show me otherwise.
1/11/2013 6:36:54 PM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
someface College Park, MD 43, joined Oct. 2012	There's no biggest lie here more than you do. Every Muslim debater here post a source link. You post nothing, and most of your link ended up being wrong or twisted. Muslims are not allowed to lie, especially to idiots like you. No you can't. Quran forbid to lie. Quran 40:28. And a believing man from the family of Pharaoh who concealed his faith said, "Do you kill a man [merely] because he says, 'My Lord is Allah ' while he has brought you clear proofs from your Lord? And if he should be lying, then upon him is [the consequence of] his lie; but if he should be truthful, there will strike you some of what he promises you. Indeed, Allah does not guide one who is a transgressor and a liar.
1/11/2013 6:40:16 PM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
nonstandard York, PA 52, joined Jun. 2009	The blame game is common in every culture , its not just the religion , but everything that is taught from the moment of birth . Everybody here that seeks truth and wisdom , has had to look within themselves and reject the knowledge that keeps them from their goals . They know that accepting and rejecting knowledge is a choice and not a requirement . There are many who may never know the power and freedom of personal choice .
1/11/2013 7:33:57 PM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 65, joined Dec. 2010	Quote from someface: There's no biggest lie here more than you do. Every Muslim debater here post a source link. You post nothing, and most of your link ended up being wrong or twisted. Muslims are not allowed to lie, especially to idiots like you. No you can't. Quran forbid to lie. Quran 40:28. And a believing man from the family of Pharaoh who concealed his faith said, "Do you kill a man [merely] because he says, 'My Lord is Allah ' while he has brought you clear proofs from your Lord? And if he should be lying, then upon him is [the consequence of] his lie; but if he should be truthful, there will strike you some of what he promises you. Indeed, Allah does not guide one who is a transgressor and a liar. LOLOLOLOL Question: Are Muslims permitted to lie? Muslim scholars teach that Muslims should generally be truthful to each other, unless the purpose of lying is to "smooth over differences." There are two forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, taqiyya and kitman. These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause Islam - in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them. The Qur'an: Qur'an (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie. Qur'an (3:28) - This verse tells Muslims not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves." Qur'an (9:3) - "...Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters..." The dissolution of oaths with the pagans who remained at Mecca following its capture. They did nothing wrong, but were evicted anyway. Qur'an (40:28) - A man is introduced as a believer, but one who must "hide his faith" among those who are not believers. Qur'an (2:225) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts" The context of this remark is marriage, which explains why Sharia allows spouses to lie to each other for the greater good. Qur'an (66:2) - "Allah has already ordained for you, (O men), the dissolution of your oaths" Qur'an (3:54) - "And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers." The Arabic word used here for scheme (or plot) is makara, which literally means deceit. If Allah is deceitful toward unbelievers, then there is little basis for denying that Muslims are allowed to do the same. (See also 8:30 and 10:21) Taken collectively these verses are interpreted to mean that there are circumstances when a Muslim may be "compelled" to deceive others for a greater purpose.
1/11/2013 7:36:33 PM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 65, joined Dec. 2010	From the Hadith: Bukhari (52:269) - "The Prophet said, 'War is deceit.'" The context of this is thought to be the murder of Usayr ibn Zarim and his thirty unarmed men by Muhammad's men after he "guaranteed" them safe passage (see Additional Notes below). Bukhari (49:857) - "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar." Lying is permitted when the end justifies the means. Bukhari (84:64-65) - Speaking from a position of power at the time, Ali confirms that lying is permissible in order to deceive an "enemy." Muslim (32:6303) - "...he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them)." Bukhari (50:369) - Recounts the murder of a poet, Ka'b bin al-Ashraf, at Muhammad's insistence. The men who volunteered for the assassination used dishonesty to gain Ka'b's trust, pretending that they had turned against Muhammad. This drew the victim out of his fortress, whereupon he was brutally slaughtered despite putting up a ferocious struggle for his life. From Islamic Law: Reliance of the Traveler (p. 746 - 8.2) - "Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible (N:i.e. when the purpose of lying is to circumvent someone who is preventing one from doing something permissible), and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory... it is religiously precautionary in all cases to employ words that give a misleading impression... "One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie Muslims are allowed to lie to unbelievers in order to defeat them. The two forms are: Taqiyya - Saying something that isn't true.
1/12/2013 7:04:04 AM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
someface College Park, MD 43, joined Oct. 2012	Quote from jim_a49: LOLOLOLOL Question: Are Muslims permitted to lie? Allah does not guide one who is a transgressor and a liar.(Quran 40:28) As simple as that! Examining the issue of the Prophet Muhammad allowing Muslims to lie Whole story is here, if you take your time. May be you can learn something from the horse mouth. http://www.answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/are_we_allowed_to_lie.htm [Edited 1/12/2013 7:05:45 AM ]
1/12/2013 10:04:48 AM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 65, joined Dec. 2010	Muslims are allowed to lie to unbelievers in order to defeat them. The two forms are: Taqiyya - Saying something that isn't true. Kitman - Lying by omission. An example would be when Muslim apologists quote only a fragment of verse 5:32 (that if anyone kills "it shall be as if he had killed all mankind") while neglecting to mention that the rest of the verse (and the next) mandate murder in undefined cases of "corruption" and "mischief." Though not called Taqiyya by name, Muhammad clearly used deception when he signed a 10-year treaty with the Meccans that allowed him access to their city while he secretly prepared his own forces for a takeover. The unsuspecting residents were conquered in easy fashion after he broke the treaty two years later, and some of the people in the city who had trusted him at his word were executed. Another example of lying is when Muhammad used deception to trick his personal enemies into letting down their guard and exposing themselves to slaughter by pretending to seek peace. This happened in the case of Ka'b bin al-Ashraf (as previously noted) and again later against Usayr ibn Zarim, a surviving leader of the Banu Nadir tribe, which had been evicted from their home in Medina by the Muslims. At the time, Usayr ibn Zarim was attempting to gather an armed force against the Muslims from among a tribe allied with the Quraish (against which Muhammad had already declared war). Muhammad's "emissaries" went to ibn Zarim and persuaded him to leave his safe haven on the pretext of meeting with the prophet of Islam in Medina to discuss peace. Once vulnerable, the leader and his thirty companions were massacred by the Muslims with ease, belying the probability that they were mostly unarmed, having been given a guarantee of safe passage (Ibn Ishaq 981). Such was the reputation of Muslims for lying and then killing that even those who "accepted Islam" did not feel entirely safe. The fate of the Jadhima is tragic evidence for this. When Muslim "missionaries" approached their tribe one of the members insisted that they would be slaughtered even though they had already "converted" to Islam to avoid just such a demise. However, the others were convinced that they could trust the Muslim leader's promise that they would not be harmed if they simply offered no resistance. (After convincing the skeptic to lay down his arms, the unarmed men of the tribe were quickly tied up and beheaded - Ibn Ishaq 834 & 837). Today's Muslims often try to justify Muhammad's murder of poets and others who criticized him at Medina by saying that they broke a treaty by their actions. Yet, these same apologists place little value on treaties broken by Muslims. From Muhammad to Saddam Hussein, promises made to non-Muslim are distinctly non-binding in the Muslim mindset. Leaders in the Arab world routinely say one thing to English-speaking audiences and then something entirely different to their own people in Arabic. Yassir Arafat was famous for telling Western newspapers about his desire for peace with Israel, then turning right around and whipping Palestinians into a hateful and violent frenzy against Jews. The 9/11 hijackers practiced deception by going into bars and drinking alcohol, thus throwing off potential suspicion that they were fundamentalists plotting jihad. This effort worked so well, in fact, that even weeks after 9/11, John Walsh, the host of a popular American television show, said that their bar trips were evidence of 'hypocrisy.' The transmission from Flight 93 records the hijackers telling their doomed passengers that there is "a bomb on board" but that everyone will "be safe" as long as "their demands are met." Obviously none of these things were true, but these men, who were so intensely devoted to Islam that they were willing to "slay and be slain for the cause of Allah" (as the Qur'an puts it) saw nothing wrong with employing Taqiyya in order to facilitate their mission of mass murder. The Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) insists that it "has not now or ever been involved with the Muslim Brotherhood, or supported any covert, illegal, or terrorist activity or organization." In fact, it was created by the Muslim Brotherhood and has bankrolled Hamas. At least nine founders or board members of ISNA have been accused by prosecutors of supporting terrorism. Prior to engineering several deadly terror plots, such as the Fort Hood massacre and the attempt to blow up a Detroit-bound airliner, American cleric Anwar al-Awlaki was regularly sought out by NPR, PBS and even government leaders to expound on the peaceful nature of Islam. The near absence of Qur'anic verse and reliable Hadith that encourage truthfulness is somewhat surprising, given that many Muslims are convinced that their religion teaches honesty. In fact, it is because of this ingrained belief that many Muslims are quite honest. When lying is addressed in the Qur'an, it is nearly always in reference to the "lies against Allah" - referring to the Jews and Christians who rejected Muhammad's claim to being a prophet. Finally, the circumstances by which Muhammad allowed a believer to lie to a non-spouse are limited to those that either advance the cause of Islam or enable a Muslim to avoid harm to his well-being (and presumably that of other Muslims as well). Although this should be kept very much in mind when dealing with matters of global security, such as Iran's nuclear intentions, it is not grounds for assuming that the Muslim one might personally encounter on the street or in the workplace is any less honest than anyone else.
1/12/2013 10:15:19 AM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 65, joined Dec. 2010	Quote from someface: Are Muslims permitted to lie? Allah does not guide one who is a transgressor and a liar.(Quran 40:28) As simple as that! Examining the issue of the Prophet Muhammad allowing Muslims to lie Whole story is here, if you take your time. May be you can learn something from the horse mouth. http://www.answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/are_we_allowed_to_lie.htm LOLOLOL And so you send me to one the most propoganda site on Islam. Writtin on a grade school level I can show you lots of Islamic sites like this, Al Islam is another Do you want me to break down one of their topics, and prove to you that they are lying. I can do that with them, you cannot do that with Spencer. These people do the same thing you do, Right off the bat, they blame the christians. The christians have nothing to do with this. Grow up, don't be so nieve.
1/12/2013 1:09:20 PM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
someface College Park, MD 43, joined Oct. 2012	Quote from jim_a49: LOLOLOL And so you send me to one the most propoganda site on Islam. Writtin on a grade school level I can show you lots of Islamic sites like this, Al Islam is another Do you want me to break down one of their topics, and prove to you that they are lying. I can do that with them, you cannot do that with Spencer. These people do the same thing you do, Right off the bat, they blame the christians. The christians have nothing to do with this. Grow up, don't be so nieve. The guy who is in charge has PHD in Islamic literature, he knows what he's talking about.
1/12/2013 1:15:08 PM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 62, joined Feb. 2008	Nowhere does Paul even remotely say that it is okay to lie, in favor of Christianity or for any other reason. Paul, like all the apostles, sacrificed all, including their own lives (except John), for the sake of the Truth.
1/12/2013 1:17:21 PM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 65, joined Dec. 2010	So what, Makes no difference, he is also a muslim and has permission, and even orders to lie about it. as I said. I am not interested in the education of the people involved. I am only interested in the statements of Islamic text that are proven wrong. So far, because you have not produced any text that is wrong. all you are doing is proving what I said about Taquyya.
1/13/2013 7:21:32 AM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
adameve Lacombe, LA 53, joined Jan. 2008	Its not about; Muslims; ITS ABOUT SPIRIT! What spirit is in the man; Jesus Spirit? or Satan hatefulness, no one can give opinion, cause of this selfish demand, WHY? Cause JESUS CHRIST. He [Jesus] came and saith, I COME TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH!! Question now is do you want the truth? No man on earth, EVER came and gave more, and saith, Follow me I defeat death!! Second death, He can help you with. choice wisely.White, skin, black skin, yellow skin, red skin,. All same. What Spirit is in Him???????
1/13/2013 12:44:03 PM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
mr_majestic2u Wing, ND 54, joined Jul. 2012
1/13/2013 12:56:14 PM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
sail_dancer Saint Petersburg, FL 67, joined Apr. 2010	Quote from ludlowlowell: Nowhere does Paul even remotely say that it is okay to lie, in favor of Christianity or for any other reason. Really? ..... How about: I CORINTHIANS 9:19-22 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them under the Law, that I might gain them that are under the Law; To them that are without the law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ) that I might gain them that are under the law. To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. Or ROMANS 3:7 For if the truth of God, hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory: why yet am I also judged as a sinner? Peace
1/13/2013 3:27:49 PM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 65, joined Dec. 2010	Islam gets a little more dramatic. Bukhari:V7B67N427 "The Prophet said, 'If I take an oath and later find something else better than that, then I do what is better and expiate my oath.'" Qur'an 9:3 "Allah and His Messenger dissolve obligations." Qur'an 66:2 "Allah has already sanctioned for you the dissolution of your vows." Bukhari:V4B52N268 "Allah's Apostle said, 'War is deceit.'" Ishaq:519 "Hajjaj said to the Apostle, 'I have money scattered among the Meccan merchants, so give me permission to go and get it.' Having got Muhammad's permission, he said, 'I must tell lies.' The Apostle said, 'Tell them.'"
1/13/2013 4:20:53 PM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
asanb Sanbornton, NH 59, joined Jul. 2012	Why do Islamaphobes lie about Islam?
1/13/2013 4:45:08 PM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
someface College Park, MD 43, joined Oct. 2012	Quote from asanb: Why do Islamaphobes lie about Islam? Because they make a living by lying and twisting everything.
1/13/2013 7:18:51 PM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
oregonjake Eugene, OR 59, joined Mar. 2012	And I suppose the abrogation verses (2-106 and 16-101) mean nothing to you? It is convenient to lie about that one, would that be a perfect example of the taqiyya you also ignore? Please, if you are going to try and debate Islam, at least know your sources. Muhammad is not proud of you at the moment.
1/13/2013 7:25:57 PM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
oregonjake Eugene, OR 59, joined Mar. 2012	Islamophobia; a term made up by the Muslim Brotherhood in order to facilitate "...their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and "sabotaging" its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God's religion is made victorious over all other religions." The Islamophobes are those like yourself who obfuscate and mislead the kuffir into believing that Islam is a religion of peace. Islam is a religion of the perpetually insulted.
1/13/2013 7:57:31 PM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
asanb Sanbornton, NH 59, joined Jul. 2012	an accurate depiction of the islamaphobe's understanding of arab culture:
1/13/2013 8:31:45 PM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
oregonjake Eugene, OR 59, joined Mar. 2012	Ever read the Qur'an or the hadiths of Muhammad? Please don't spout off about Islamophobia unless you know its roots. See http://www.investigativeproject.org/documents/misc/20.pdf for the plans for America by Islam.
1/14/2013 1:41:05 AM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
someface College Park, MD 43, joined Oct. 2012	Quote from oregonjake: And I suppose the abrogation verses (2-106 and 16-101) mean nothing to you? It is convenient to lie about that one, would that be a perfect example of the taqiyya you also ignore? Please, if you are going to try and debate Islam, at least know your sources. Muhammad is not proud of you at the moment. Did you read the verse properly, or you want to create something out of thin air? (Quran 2-106) We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth [one] better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent? WHERE DOES THIS VERSE TELLS YOU ABOUT MUSLIM LYING? And another one.. (Quran 16:101-102) And when We substitute a verse in place of a verse - and Allah is most knowing of what He sends down - they say, "You, [O Muhammad], are but an inventor [of lies]." But most of them do not know. Say, [O Muhammad], "The Pure Spirit has brought it down from your Lord in truth to make firm those who believe and as guidance and good tidings to the Muslims. And where does it say MUSLIMS ARE ALLOWED TO LIE??? I thought you are smarter than that garbage. [Edited 1/14/2013 1:41:18 AM ]
1/14/2013 2:01:06 AM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
someface College Park, MD 43, joined Oct. 2012	Quote from oregonjake: Islamophobia; a term made up by the Muslim Brotherhood in order to facilitate "...their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and "sabotaging" its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God's religion is made victorious over all other religions." . I can see where you got your garbage from. Another backup for Jim from Robert Spencer. I love to spank you guys. http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/08/did-the-muslim-brotherhood-invent-the-term-islamophobia.html It's ok for Jews to be the victim of 60yrs old holocaust but not OK for Muslims to be the victim? So this is nothing for you? Or may be the case of the guy who was asked if he was a Muslim before shot in Face 20 times with Pellet Gun?
1/14/2013 2:36:25 AM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
someface College Park, MD 43, joined Oct. 2012	Quote from oregonjake: Ever read the Qur'an or the hadiths of Muhammad? Please don't spout off about Islamophobia unless you know its roots. The roots? There is a book here by Author Deepa Kumar on the imperial roots of anti-Muslim sentiment. Islamophobia This lady left nothing on the subject. Extract from her interview. vilification of Islam and of the Prophet Muhammad has a long history. It goes back to the 11th century when the Papacy was trying to mobilize for the Crusades. The Vatican was horrified by the fact that Islam allowed men to take up to four wives, allowed for divorce, and even permitted divorced women to remarry! It was argued that it was this kind of promiscuity that allowed Islam to gain as many converts as it did (even among Christians). So the Church put forward the argument that Muhammad was a sexual deviant and therefore a false prophet preaching a false religion. These ideas have been resuscitated today by the far right. An associated theme connected to sexuality, and one that gets taken up in 19th century Europe, is gender. Europeans circulated the notion that Muslim women are horribly oppressed (without actually consulting or talking to Muslim women) and that Muslim men are misogynistic. What followed from this was that Muslim women needed to be rescued by white men swooping in on their horses. And this is, of course, the justification that was given for the Afghan war—at least it was one of the justifications beyond the revenge motive. And of course if you look at that narrative, it doesn’t begin in 2001. For instance, Lord Cromer, who oversaw the occupation of Egypt in the 1880s, claimed that Islam has completely stultified the lives of women and that he was therefore going to emancipate them. British colonization of Egypt was therefore an enlightened project. In reality this is not how things worked out. If anything things got worse for Egyptian women. And it’s not hard to tell why, because this supposed champion of Egyptian women’s rights worked tirelessly to deny British women the right to vote as a founding member and president of the Men’s League for Opposing Women’s Suffrage. If this justification was used by Cromer, an out and out sexist, over a century ago, George Bush who is no less of a sexist used the same argument again in the context of the Afghan war. The other myth you mentioned was the idea that Arabs are incapable of self-rule and democracy and therefore it was the “white man’s burden” to bring democracy to these uncivilized people. Montesquieu explained why this was so by turning to the weather as an indicator of human temperament. He said that whereas in the West, which has cooler climates, men (and he meant men) were virile and active, in the hotter climates of the East the people were prone to being supine and servile. This is why, he said, they are better suited for despotism. This theory of “Oriental despotism” however is not unique to Montesquieu but was widely held by others. And this argument gets repeated in the early 20th century by Lord Balfour in relation to Egypt when he stated that the Egyptians are incapable of self-rule, and again by Theodore Roosevelt who said that the “Muslim fellaheen” are devoid of any traces of self-government in their entire history! We find echoes of this again in the case of the 2003 war on Iraq. When weapons of mass destruction were not found in Iraq, the narrative then shifted to one of democracy. The US was going to bring democracy to Iraq and create a new Middle East. Sadly, even people on the left bought this “white man’s burden” argument. And I for one was ecstatic to see the Arab uprisings of 2011 because it showed quite concretely that Arabs are capable of taking down dictators and struggling for more democratic and politically (and economically) representative societies…despite the hot weather! http://jfjfp.com/?p=32092
1/14/2013 6:22:45 AM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
asanb Sanbornton, NH 59, joined Jul. 2012
1/14/2013 6:40:21 AM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
sail_dancer Saint Petersburg, FL 67, joined Apr. 2010	Quote from asanb: .................... Nothing justifies that! ..... not even the spread of democracy. And the law allows you to own weapons? ..... with views like that ..... I wouldn't trust you with a butter knife! Peace
1/14/2013 7:56:16 AM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
nonstandard York, PA 52, joined Jun. 2009	Quote from sail_dancer: .................... Nothing justifies that! ..... not even the spread of democracy. And the law allows you to own weapons? ..... with views like that ..... I wouldn't trust you with a butter knife! Peace thank you
1/14/2013 8:02:29 AM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
sail_dancer Saint Petersburg, FL 67, joined Apr. 2010	Quote from nonstandard: thank you I just felt it was something that ..... had to be said. Peace
1/14/2013 8:53:28 AM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
nadia7070 Litchfield, ME 48, joined Dec. 2010	Quote from asanb: They will find any reason to blame the natives to get the opportunity to reap and pillage the natural resources.
1/14/2013 10:42:46 AM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 65, joined Dec. 2010	Quote from someface: Did you read the verse properly, or you want to create something out of thin air? (Quran 2-106) We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth [one] better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent? WHERE DOES THIS VERSE TELLS YOU ABOUT MUSLIM LYING? And another one.. (Quran 16:101-102) And when We substitute a verse in place of a verse - and Allah is most knowing of what He sends down - they say, "You, [O Muhammad], are but an inventor [of lies]." But most of them do not know. Say, [O Muhammad], "The Pure Spirit has brought it down from your Lord in truth to make firm those who believe and as guidance and good tidings to the Muslims. And where does it say MUSLIMS ARE ALLOWED TO LIE??? I thought you are smarter than that garbage. Dude. whY are you trying to twist that around ,AGAIN. All of that has been covered. muhammed himself gave several examples of kying, and from this we have Taquyyia,
1/14/2013 10:44:54 AM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 65, joined Dec. 2010	Quote from someface: The roots? There is a book here by Author Deepa Kumar on the imperial roots of anti-Muslim sentiment. Islamophobia http://jfjfp.com/?p=32092 LOLOLOL Those are not the roots, you moron
1/14/2013 12:03:07 PM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
someface College Park, MD 43, joined Oct. 2012	Quote from jim_a49: Dude. whY are you trying to twist that around ,AGAIN. All of that has been covered. muhammed himself gave several examples of kying, and from this we have Taquyyia, Twist? I quote Quran that fktard posted, that's not twist. You can go to any QURAN SITE and you will find the same answer. Don't post verses that don't mean a jackshit. This what you have been doing all the time. Taking crap from another idiot and post them on DH. Check every verses and make sure they backed your stupidity. Throwing verses out of thin air. I will re-check everything to make sure, you don't fking lie again.
1/14/2013 12:32:11 PM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 65, joined Dec. 2010	Quote from someface: Twist? I quote Quran that fktard posted, that's not twist. You can go to any QURAN SITE and you will find the same answer. Don't post verses that don't mean a jackshit. This what you have been doing all the time. Taking crap from another idiot and post them on DH. Check every verses and make sure they backed your stupidity. Throwing verses out of thin air. I will re-check everything to make sure, you don't fking lie again. My God are you a fking moron. You post the Qur'am, big fking deal, you Quote the Qur'am. The Qur'an is a small part of Islam, in fact, only 14% of the writings. The Qur'an is for the sheep, like you, yes, you are a brainwashed sheep. Taquyyia is a very important part of islam, and it is not in the Qur'an. The foundations for it are both in the Qur'an and sunnaH, you know, where sharia law comes from. FLOLOLOL FAIL AGAIN. SPANK SPANK SPANK.
1/14/2013 3:54:10 PM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
someface College Park, MD 43, joined Oct. 2012	Quote from oregonjake: And I suppose the abrogation verses (2-106 and 16-101) mean nothing to you? I didn't post the verse, it was this dude who posted the verse? I just post the verse for people to read and to find out. It turns out garbage. There is nowhere in that Quran it tells Muslims to lie. YEH, You can lie to save yourself from death, but not lying for the sake of lying. [Edited 1/14/2013 3:54:31 PM ]
1/14/2013 4:30:53 PM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 65, joined Dec. 2010	Quote from someface: I didn't post the verse, it was this dude who posted the verse? I just post the verse for people to read and to find out. It turns out garbage. There is nowhere in that Quran it tells Muslims to lie. YEH, You can lie to save yourself from death, but not lying for the sake of lying. LOLOLOL Dude, right here you are doing just that, This falls into the catagory of lying by omission. You sound like that cleric who got on world wide TV. and said. Show me in the Qur'an where it says to fly airplanes into buildings. As an option you might not just are not aware of it, and I am finding this to be true in a lot of cases. You just might not know. Unfortuantaly, it has been plastered all over these pages, so there is no excuse for you not to know. It is not specifically writtin in the qur'an where it says ,OK you can Lie. It has the foundations in the Qur'an and sunnah, where muhammed gives examples and allows his men to lie. You lie on here all the time, and you are doing nothing wrong within your religion. This is a reason why I am sure you know about it.
1/14/2013 6:14:04 PM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
asanb Sanbornton, NH 59, joined Jul. 2012	Sail: I posted that in reference to the post just above it. ALSO, I sometimes post provocative or insighteful material that I don't agree with or that illustrates an oposing view's stupidity. Unless I type it in myselfe with no quotes, don't assume.
1/14/2013 6:35:26 PM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
asanb Sanbornton, NH 59, joined Jul. 2012	"The United Nations is considering a resolution opposing the vilification of religions. It has passed a committee and if adopted by the General Assembly it will attain a certain status in international law, an authority lesser than a binding treaty but still a step along the way to customary international law. The proposal arises from the caucus of Muslim countries. It's not that the complaint that the caucus raises lacks validity. The world's 1.6 billion Muslims are constantly vilified in certain sectors of western powers' mass communications media, but lest one thinks that it's an American problem or an Israeli problem, consider the modern history of India, where inter-communal rioting becomes like an elemental force in which lives are swept away in floods of bigotry. The arson against mosques in the United States, and the opposition to a Muslim community center in New York, sicken me. I really don't care to hear any more screeds from the people behind that wave of bigotry, or those trying to justify the killings of civilians in Israel's Gaza offensive, or those for extending and escalating the war in Afghanistan, about how Islam is an intolerant religion, a fanatical religion, a sexist religion or a violent religion. It's not that there are not Muslims who are properly described as intolerant, fanatical, sexist or violent. However, you can say the same about any substantial religious community, and those sorts of people can usually find something in their holy scriptures to justify their common human faults, whatever religion they may embrace. It is the broad-brushed application of a stereotype for the purpose of denigrating the humanity of the adherents of a particular faith that is the most unfair, and the most dangerous, attribute of religious vilification." http://www.thepanamanews.com/pn/v_16/issue_13/opinion_07.html The death of a muslim baby is just as much a tradgey as the death of a white christian one. Bigotry kills inocent people.
1/14/2013 6:45:25 PM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 65, joined Dec. 2010	Asanb You are broad brushing the religions. While I do not agree with christianity, Jesus himself, is a pretty good role model. Muhammed is not. There are more writings about muhammed than any other religious head, and the majority of the writings are pure evil. You cannot ignore the overwhelming amount of the writings, plainly describing rapes, murders, tortures, subjagation and slavery, that are still active today, Noother religious head behaved like this. You, as a muslim are supposed to emulate muhammed.
1/14/2013 6:56:00 PM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 65, joined Dec. 2010	Also this proposal, which will never pass, was proposed by the muslim countries, andthe reason being, muhammed is an embarrasment to them and now people are learning about him. We know this will not be followed by muslim countries anyway. They will still kill christians and jews. Non-muslims cannot even testify in court in sharia countries. This proposal is strictly for the purposes of hiding Islam from the general public of the west. And what is criticism. If I say Muhammed was a pedophile, that is a fact. And yes, people will still continue to critize a religion that promotes pedophilia. If I say muhammed was a cold blooded murderer, that is a fact. If I say muhammed was a thief, that is a fact. These are the reasons they are promoting it.
1/14/2013 7:06:19 PM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
asanb Sanbornton, NH 59, joined Jul. 2012	We are questioning the second ammendment right to bear arms in light of gun violence. Does tacitly ignoring religious bigotry mean that maybe the first ammendment isn't even worth a few words in refutation? Is intolerance becoming an acceptable norm? Do you not believe that the Islamaphobia network has an agenda, and that it's agenda is pushing people toward violence? There's money to be made from little wars.......
1/14/2013 7:11:27 PM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 65, joined Dec. 2010	first of all, islamophobia is a made up word that contradicts itself. Then, it is Islam that is the agressor here, We are back to the same thing I just posted. This law would not be enforced in islamic countries, it is against sharia and islam. I don't like nazism either, does that make me naziphobic.
1/14/2013 7:16:07 PM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 65, joined Dec. 2010	And this so-called Islamaphoboia is mainly consistant of individuals who studied islam. There is no central organazation, though man are connected to each other. The only agenda, is for people to learn about the religion befor you lay out the welcome mat. People warned Germany of the nazi's, but were ignored, overun by the propoganda. I read Taburi befor I ever heard of Robert Spencer, I knew islam was pure evil, long befor there was internet coverage like there is now.
1/14/2013 7:24:18 PM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
asanb Sanbornton, NH 59, joined Jul. 2012	Why is it that PBS, ABC, NBC, National Geographic, CNN, API, and every single responsible news, anthropology, and history organisation or institution do not agree with your opinion? Name a few reputable APOLITICAL institutions who support your view.
1/14/2013 7:34:55 PM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 65, joined Dec. 2010	Quote from asanb: Why is it that PBS, ABC, NBC, National Geographic, CNN, API, and every single responsible news, anthropology, and history organisation or institution do not agree with your opinion? Name a few reputable APOLITICAL institutions who support your view. 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 You tell me, and it pisses me off. These are the people who should be exposing it, but there is a hidden factor here we are not being told. And I believe it is money. Also you cannot learn about the religion without actually reading the books. muslims will not tell you, hell, most don't even know. All these people can go on is what they are told, I would like to see a Televised CNN, style, panel with scholars on both sides getting down to the brass tacks of the religion. However, Islam would never agree to it. They will not even face scholars anymore for debates. everybody refuses Spencer, You have to actually read the tezt.
1/14/2013 7:39:15 PM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 65, joined Dec. 2010	and I really don't understand that statement. Why is it that PBS, ABC, NBC, National Geographic, CNN, API, and every single responsible news, anthropology, and history organisation. News organazations have to remain neutral, and i know of no historical or anthropoligical, organazation with such views. Remember islam, ( Ishaq) just recently got translated into Englisn,
1/14/2013 7:45:05 PM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
asanb Sanbornton, NH 59, joined Jul. 2012	This is what PBS tells about the life of the founder of Islam. I trust thier version more than yours.
1/14/2013 8:01:13 PM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 65, joined Dec. 2010	LOLOL I have seen that. that is PBS, they are playing a film, made by muslims. Their version is also different than Taburi and Ishaq, the only biographies writtin. why is that.
1/14/2013 8:07:40 PM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 65, joined Dec. 2010	Ansanb What you are unknowingly doing is confirming exactly what this post is about. Lying bout Islam. There is nothing of the raids on unarmed settlements in there. and there are 78 documented ones. There is nothing about the rapes, or beheadings, of hundreds at a time. The slave trade, the way the booty was split. the distrubution of the women. Muhammeds sexual perversions. Islam is inventing a new muhammed, except they cannot re-write what is already documented
1/15/2013 3:13:00 AM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
brother_icey Killeen, TX 30, joined Feb. 2012	jim_a49, are you even able to stand against longbobby?
1/15/2013 8:16:57 AM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
someface College Park, MD 43, joined Oct. 2012	Quote from jim_a49: LOLOL I have seen that. that is PBS, they are playing a film, made by muslims. Their version is also different than Taburi and Ishaq, the only biographies writtin. why is that. Karen Armstrong is not a Muslim. She's a well respected scholar. Cut the crap! Anyone can search her and see.
1/15/2013 8:21:16 AM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
someface College Park, MD 43, joined Oct. 2012	Quote from jim_a49: Ansanb What you are unknowingly doing is confirming exactly what this post is about. Lying bout Islam. There is nothing of the raids on unarmed settlements in there. and there are 78 documented ones. There is nothing about the rapes, or beheadings, of hundreds at a time. The slave trade, the way the booty was split. the distrubution of the women. Muhammeds sexual perversions. Islam is inventing a new muhammed, except they cannot re-write what is already documented You write all these stuff about Muhammad, and you only back your source with CORRUPTED TRANSLATED SHIA BOOK - IBN ISHAQ. Don't you see that, you are bind with negativity about Islam? You are exactly what Professor John Esposito talks about.
1/15/2013 8:47:04 AM	Why do muslims have to lie about Islam?
someface College Park, MD 43, joined Oct. 2012	Quote from jim_a49: I have seen that. that is PBS, they are playing a film, made by muslims. Their version is also different than Taburi and Ishaq, the only biographies writtin. You are wrong, TABURI AND ISHAQ are not the only biography. Both those books have collected stories from other sources. Which mostly NOT RELIABLE. You can find all reliable STORIES OF Muhammad in Sahih Bukhari and Muslim. http://www.sahih-bukhari.com/

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