Where did Lent come from?

2/11/2016 4:38:42 AM	Where did Lent come from?
share_n_love Fort Wayne, IN 60, joined Dec. 2012	The pagan origin of Ash Wednesday By Craig Portwood It's not mentioned in the Bible. None of the apostles observed it. Nowhere are Christians commanded to keep it. It was not even officially practiced until nearly 1000 years after Christ's resurrection. Like so many other non-biblical “Christian” customs, it has pagan roots. It's a sad fact that modern Christianity has appropriated so many customs from the practice of the heathens, that one might wonder if it should still be called Christianity. The early Pagan origins of Ash Wednesday This ritual “imposition of the ashes” is purportedly in imitation of the repentant act of covering oneself in dust and ashes. The marking of believers on Ash Wednesday is done in combination of another extra-biblical routine called “Lent.” Despite Christ's command to his followers to abstain from the practice of disfiguring their faces during fasting, it has become a regular practice. He also told us to wash our faces during a fast. The practice of putting ashes on one's forehead has been known from ancient times. In the Nordic pagan religion, placing ashes above one's brow was believed to ensure the protection of the Norse god, Odin. This practice spread to Europe during the Vikings conquests. This laying on of ashes was done on Wednesday, the day named for Odin, Odin's Day. Interestingly enough, according to Wikipedia, one of Odin's names is Ygg. The same is Norse for the World Ash. This name Ygg, closely resembles the Vedic name Agni in pronunciation. The Norse practice which has become known as Ash Wednesday was itself, drawn from the Vedic Indian religion. Ashes were believed to be the seed Agni , the Indian fire god. It is from this name that the Latins used for fire, ignis. It is from this root word that the English language got the words, ignite, igneous and ignition. Agni was said to have the authority to forgive sins. Ashes were also believed to be symbolic for the purifying blood of the Vedic god Shiva, which it is said had the power to cleanse sins. Lent Lent is a period of 40 days preceding the observance of Easter, where the observers are expected to fast or cease from having the use of some other “luxury.” Like the majority of modern, so-called Christian practices, its beginning can be traced to heathen practices. In his book The Two Babylons, Alexander Hislop observed: Let any one only read the atrocities that were commemorated during the 'sacred fast' or Pagan Lent, as described by Arnobius and Clemens Alexandrinus, and surely he must blush for the Christianity of those who, with the full knowledge of all these abominations, 'went down to Egypt for help' to stir up the languid devotion of the degenerate church, and who could find no more excellent way to 'revive' it, than by borrowing from so polluted a source; the absurdities and abominations connected with which the early Christian writers had held up to scorn. That Christians should ever think of introducing the Pagan abstinence of Lent was a sign of evil; it showed how low they had sunk, and it was also a cause of evil; it inevitably led to deeper degradation. Originally, even in Rome, Lent, with the preceding revelries of the carnival, was entirely unknown.... In the early 19th century, German explorer Alexander von Humboldt noted the practice among the pagans in Mexico, being held in the spring. His account states: Three days after the vernal equinox…began a solemn fast of forty days in honour of the sun. A Lent of forty days was also commemorated in Egypt. According to by English scholar John Landseer, in his Sabean Researches (1823), an Egyptian Lent of forty days was held in honor of Osiris. There is a spiritual signature which bears witness to the spirit of these traditions. It is called Fat Tuesday, Shrove Tuesday or Mardi Gras. It is the custom of living it up to get our fill of all the enjoyment the world has to offer before setting off to “Church” in mock repentance on Ash Wednesday. Such celebrations are an indication of the spirit behind the facade. The Truth Christ made it plain in John 4:23-24: But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. To be sure, those who observe modern “Christian” practices are religious. They may have personal conviction, but they are missing a vital element of the faith. They are lacking truth. Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. The Bible tells us in chapter 9 of the book of Hebrews, that we are made clean by the shed blood of Jesus Christ. No amount of ritual or work of the hand of man can accomplish this. 1st Peter 1:13-16 tells us: Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. The word holy means set apart, different from the rest. If we keep traditions which are not of God, how can we be holy? From what then are we different if we do as they do? Not everyone has the conviction nor the courage to be set apart from the rest of the world. The sad truth is that mainstream Christianity lost her way, having fallen into apostasy long ago. This apostate tradition is continued by priests, pastors and preachers, ordained not by God in the power of the Holy Spirit, but by men in the spirit of the world. And their followers wouldn't have it any other way. © 2003 - 2016 Beacon of Truth / The Christian Underground Network Meet singles at DateHookup.dating, we're 100% free! Join now!
2/11/2016 6:23:58 AM	Where did Lent come from?
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	Q. Is Lent in the Bible? A. Yes. Q.Where? A. Matthew 4:1-2, where Jesus went into the desert and fasted for forty days. Christians who observe Lent are merely imitating Jesus. Q. Is Ash Wednesday in the Bible? A. No, but neither is Memorial Day, Columbus Day, Labor Day, or Presidents Day. So what if ot isn't in the Bible. Is it specifically forbidden in the Bible? No. Nowhere in the Bible does it say, "Thou shalt mot observe Ash Wednesday". Q. Does Ash Wednesday have pagan origins? A. I don't know, but so what if it did. The pagans weren't all bad. The Church has a long history of taking pagan customs and holidays and Christianizing them. Q. Where does the Church get the authority to establish Ash Wednesday, and other days, remembrances, and feasts on its liturgical calendar? A. Matthew 16:19.
2/11/2016 7:38:58 AM	Where did Lent come from?
cupocheer Assumption, IL 67, joined May. 2010	As a quip: (lint) all the soft fluff from my favorite angora sweater Lent: a Christian religious observance, proceeds Easter by weeks
2/11/2016 8:22:53 AM	Where did Lent come from?
visitingfriends Evansville, WI 76, joined Jan. 2011	Quote from ludlowlowell: Q. Is Lent in the Bible? A. Yes. Q.Where? A. Matthew 4:1-2, where Jesus went into the desert and fasted for forty days. Christians who observe Lent are merely imitating Jesus. Q. Is Ash Wednesday in the Bible? A. No, but neither is Memorial Day, Columbus Day, Labor Day, or Presidents Day. So what if ot isn't in the Bible. Is it specifically forbidden in the Bible? No. Nowhere in the Bible does it say, "Thou shalt mot observe Ash Wednesday". Q. Does Ash Wednesday have pagan origins? A. I don't know, but so what if it did. The pagans weren't all bad. The Church has a long history of taking pagan customs and holidays and Christianizing them. Q. Where does the Church get the authority to establish Ash Wednesday, and other days, remembrances, and feasts on its liturgical calendar? A. Matthew 16:19. Pretty good answer Lud!
2/11/2016 8:24:18 AM	Where did Lent come from?
visitingfriends Evansville, WI 76, joined Jan. 2011	Quote from cupocheer: As a quip: (lint) all the soft fluff from my favorite angora sweater Lent: a Christian religious observance, proceeds Easter by weeks Proceeds Easter by 40 days, the same amount of time Jesus spent in the desert.
2/11/2016 11:50:13 AM	Where did Lent come from?
cupocheer Assumption, IL 67, joined May. 2010	Oops... I thought I said PROCEEDS!
2/11/2016 2:53:17 PM	Where did Lent come from?
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 87, joined May. 2012	Quote from share_n_love: The pagan origin of Ash Wednesday By Craig Portwood It's not mentioned in the Bible. None of the apostles observed it. Nowhere are Christians commanded to keep it. It was not even officially practiced until nearly 1000 years after Christ's resurrection. Like so many other non-biblical “Christian” customs, it has pagan roots. It's a sad fact that modern Christianity has appropriated so many customs from the practice of the heathens, that one might wonder if it should still be called Christianity. Nice post, Sharen. Here's an excerpt from The Urantia Book that dovetails with what is said above: 195:9.10 Christianity is threatened by slow death from formalism, overorganization, intellectualism, and other nonspiritual trends. The modern Christian church is not such a brotherhood of dynamic believers as Jesus commissioned continuously to effect the spiritual transformation of successive generations of mankind. 195:9.11 So-called Christianity has become a social and cultural movement as well as a religious belief and practice. The stream of modern Christianity drains many an ancient pagan swamp and many a barbarian morass; many olden cultural watersheds drain into this present-day cultural stream as well as the high Galilean tablelands which are supposed to be its exclusive source. By the way, we were in Walmart yesterday. I wasn't even thinking about Lent or Ash Wednesday when I saw an old man with an ashy cross on his forehead. It brought back memories. I remembered when I did that (when I was a kid). I told my wife about it and she didn't know any of it. The early Pagan origins of Ash Wednesday This ritual “imposition of the ashes” is purportedly in imitation of the repentant act of covering oneself in dust and ashes. The marking of believers on Ash Wednesday is done in combination of another extra-biblical routine called “Lent.” Despite Christ's command to his followers to abstain from the practice of disfiguring their faces during fasting, it has become a regular practice. He also told us to wash our faces during a fast. The practice of putting ashes on one's forehead has been known from ancient times. In the Nordic pagan religion, placing ashes above one's brow was believed to ensure the protection of the Norse god, Odin. This practice spread to Europe during the Vikings conquests. This laying on of ashes was done on Wednesday, the day named for Odin, Odin's Day. Interestingly enough, according to Wikipedia, one of Odin's names is Ygg. The same is Norse for the World Ash. This name Ygg, closely resembles the Vedic name Agni in pronunciation. The Norse practice which has become known as Ash Wednesday was itself, drawn from the Vedic Indian religion. Ashes were believed to be the seed Agni , the Indian fire god. It is from this name that the Latins used for fire, ignis. It is from this root word that the English language got the words, ignite, igneous and ignition. Agni was said to have the authority to forgive sins. Ashes were also believed to be symbolic for the purifying blood of the Vedic god Shiva, which it is said had the power to cleanse sins. Lent Lent is a period of 40 days preceding the observance of Easter, where the observers are expected to fast or cease from having the use of some other “luxury.” Like the majority of modern, so-called Christian practices, its beginning can be traced to heathen practices. In his book The Two Babylons, Alexander Hislop observed: Let any one only read the atrocities that were commemorated during the 'sacred fast' or Pagan Lent, as described by Arnobius and Clemens Alexandrinus, and surely he must blush for the Christianity of those who, with the full knowledge of all these abominations, 'went down to Egypt for help' to stir up the languid devotion of the degenerate church, and who could find no more excellent way to 'revive' it, than by borrowing from so polluted a source; the absurdities and abominations connected with which the early Christian writers had held up to scorn. That Christians should ever think of introducing the Pagan abstinence of Lent was a sign of evil; it showed how low they had sunk, and it was also a cause of evil; it inevitably led to deeper degradation. Originally, even in Rome, Lent, with the preceding revelries of the carnival, was entirely unknown.... In the early 19th century, German explorer Alexander von Humboldt noted the practice among the pagans in Mexico, being held in the spring. His account states: Three days after the vernal equinox…began a solemn fast of forty days in honour of the sun. A Lent of forty days was also commemorated in Egypt. According to by English scholar John Landseer, in his Sabean Researches (1823), an Egyptian Lent of forty days was held in honor of Osiris. There is a spiritual signature which bears witness to the spirit of these traditions. It is called Fat Tuesday, Shrove Tuesday or Mardi Gras. It is the custom of living it up to get our fill of all the enjoyment the world has to offer before setting off to “Church” in mock repentance on Ash Wednesday. Such celebrations are an indication of the spirit behind the facade. The Truth Christ made it plain in John 4:23-24: But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. To be sure, those who observe modern “Christian” practices are religious. They may have personal conviction, but they are missing a vital element of the faith. They are lacking truth. Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. The Bible tells us in chapter 9 of the book of Hebrews, that we are made clean by the shed blood of Jesus Christ. No amount of ritual or work of the hand of man can accomplish this. 1st Peter 1:13-16 tells us: Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. The word holy means set apart, different from the rest. If we keep traditions which are not of God, how can we be holy? From what then are we different if we do as they do? Not everyone has the conviction nor the courage to be set apart from the rest of the world. The sad truth is that mainstream Christianity lost her way, having fallen into apostasy long ago. This apostate tradition is continued by priests, pastors and preachers, ordained not by God in the power of the Holy Spirit, but by men in the spirit of the world. And their followers wouldn't have it any other way. © 2003 - 2016 Beacon of Truth / The Christian Underground Network
2/11/2016 4:16:16 PM	Where did Lent come from?
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 87, joined May. 2012	Quote from ludlowlowell: Q. Is Lent in the Bible? A. Yes. No, it's not in the bible and no Christians fast for 40 days. Neither did Jesus for that matter. Q. Where does the Church get the authority to establish Ash Wednesday, and other days, remembrances, and feasts on its liturgical calendar? A. Matthew 16:19. Matthew 16:19 does not give any authority to your church for anything. Your assertions are meaningless, especially since Jesus says you don't even love God. Jesus: "Why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46) "If a man love me, he will keep my words."(John 14:23) "He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings." (John 14:24) And the word which you have heard, is not mine; but the Father's who sent me." (John 14:24) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (1 John 2:4) The truth is not in your church or in you.
2/11/2016 4:19:30 PM	Where did Lent come from?
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	The guy who believes in 700,000 gods thinks Lent is too pagan!
2/11/2016 4:19:37 PM	Where did Lent come from?
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 87, joined May. 2012	@Sharenlove Sharen, I have a question or two. I asked before but there was no answer from either you or wayn. Do Messianic Jews and Seventh Day Adventists have anything in common? What are the differences? Is there any chance of consolidation between the two, or are Messianic Jews too Jewish for the SDAs or the SDAs too Christian for the MJs?
2/11/2016 4:24:06 PM	Where did Lent come from?
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 87, joined May. 2012	Quote from ludlowlowell: The guy who believes in 700,000 gods thinks Lent is too pagan! I don't know who you're talking about, smart aleck. I don't believe in any "gods." Nor did I ever say I thought Lent was "too pagan." Too pagan for what? Why do you make stuff up? Is it because Jesus says you don't even love God? Is that why you make stuff up, because you don't love God and you don't care about the truth? smart aleck: an obnoxiously conceited and self-assertive person with pretensions to smartness or cleverness
2/11/2016 5:09:50 PM	Where did Lent come from?
visitingfriends Evansville, WI 76, joined Jan. 2011	Quote from cupocheer: Oops... I thought I said PROCEEDS! You did, I was just specific on the number of days.
2/12/2016 1:17:19 AM	Where did Lent come from?
share_n_love Fort Wayne, IN 60, joined Dec. 2012	Quote from ludlowlowell: Q. Is Lent in the Bible? A. Yes. Q.Where? A. Matthew 4:1-2, where Jesus went into the desert and fasted for forty days. Christians who observe Lent are merely imitating Jesus. Q. Is Ash Wednesday in the Bible? A. No, but neither is Memorial Day, Columbus Day, Labor Day, or Presidents Day. So what if ot isn't in the Bible. Is it specifically forbidden in the Bible? No. Nowhere in the Bible does it say, "Thou shalt mot observe Ash Wednesday". Q. Does Ash Wednesday have pagan origins? A. I don't know, but so what if it did. The pagans weren't all bad. The Church has a long history of taking pagan customs and holidays and Christianizing them. Q. Where does the Church get the authority to establish Ash Wednesday, and other days, remembrances, and feasts on its liturgical calendar? A. Matthew 16:19. Perhaps you should actually read ALL of the article and then do YOUR research instead of making excuses for this pagan ritual that YOUR belief system adopted.
2/12/2016 1:19:40 AM	Where did Lent come from?
share_n_love Fort Wayne, IN 60, joined Dec. 2012	Quote from followjesusonly: @Sharenlove Sharen, I have a question or two. I asked before but there was no answer from either you or wayn. Do Messianic Jews and Seventh Day Adventists have anything in common? What are the differences? Is there any chance of consolidation between the two, or are Messianic Jews too Jewish for the SDAs or the SDAs too Christian for the MJs? Sorry I haven't been on much... SDA's are a protestant group. The only thing we have in common is the 7th Day Sabbath that YHVH God set in play from the beginning.
2/12/2016 1:33:18 AM	Where did Lent come from?
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 87, joined May. 2012	Quote from share_n_love: Sorry I haven't been on much... SDA's are a protestant group. The only thing we have in common is the 7th Day Sabbath that YHVH God set in play from the beginning. Hmm. I didn't know. Well, even that sounds like it might be a promising start. Perhaps the two groups could hold some symbolic event together. I think that would be nice. Wayn, are you here? What do you think? I'd like to see some joining of forces instead of all the division that I see, a house seriously divided. How about if the SDA adopted some views of the Messianic Jews? Possible? Not possible? Why or why not? What do they believe, wayn, that the SDAs don't believe or would have trouble accepting? (I really have no idea.)
2/12/2016 6:52:58 AM	Where did Lent come from?
cupocheer Assumption, IL 67, joined May. 2010	Quote from visitingfriends: You did, I was just specific on the number of days. Proceeds.. I was being specific on the retail commercialization. PRECEEDS would reference the number of days prior. j/s
2/12/2016 7:29:33 AM	Where did Lent come from?
visitingfriends Evansville, WI 76, joined Jan. 2011	Quote from cupocheer: Proceeds.. I was being specific on the retail commercialization. PRECEEDS would reference the number of days prior. j/s And that is fine, thank you for your explanation. Blessings!
2/12/2016 9:24:45 PM	Where did Lent come from?
share_n_love Fort Wayne, IN 60, joined Dec. 2012	Quote from followjesusonly: Hmm. I didn't know. Well, even that sounds like it might be a promising start. Perhaps the two groups could hold some symbolic event together. I think that would be nice. Wayn, are you here? What do you think? I'd like to see some joining of forces instead of all the division that I see, a house seriously divided. How about if the SDA adopted some views of the Messianic Jews? Possible? Not possible? Why or why not? What do they believe, wayn, that the SDAs don't believe or would have trouble accepting? (I really have no idea.) They wouldn't because SDA's honor christmas, easter, and do not honor the Dietary Laws. Most also have communion weekly where as wee do not.
2/12/2016 10:40:34 PM	Where did Lent come from?
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 87, joined May. 2012	Quote from share_n_love: They wouldn't because SDA's honor christmas, easter, and do not honor the Dietary Laws. Most also have communion weekly where as wee do not. What do you do for communion, if anything? And Christmas and Easter? What do you do? I haven't seen wayn around for a while. Maybe he blocked me. [Edited 2/12/2016 10:41:37 PM ]
2/13/2016 3:53:18 AM	Where did Lent come from?
a_nubian Columbus, OH 52, joined Jan. 2011	Quote from share_n_love: They wouldn't because SDA's honor christmas, easter, and do not honor the Dietary Laws. Most also have communion weekly where as wee do not. RE: Christmas You are right Sharon. In practice the vast majority celebrate Christmas and they run the gamut in how they celebrate it from "trying to keep Christ in Christmas" to "ho ho ho Santa Claus". However, there are many SDAs who do not observe Christmas because they realize it's origin is pagan. There is a growing number that have denounce the idea of observing Christmas but overall it seems to have no effect on the denomination. If any thing I will concede that SDA observation with Christmas is not in harmony with scripture. RE: Easter The SDA church as a denomination does not celebrate Easter. RE: Dietary Laws I am not sure what you mean by not honoring the Dietary Laws. As a denomination we have always taught that everyone should abstaining from unclean meat. Re: Communion SDA churches do not have communion weekly. Communion traditionally is done once every 4 months. It involves foot washing and distribution of grape juice (wine) and communion crackers (unleavened bread).
2/13/2016 1:13:53 PM	Where did Lent come from?
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 87, joined May. 2012	* Thanks very much, Nub. I sure would like to see some coming-together even if it was just a general statement of solidarity or agreement of some sort. Quote from a_nubian: RE: Christmas You are right Sharon. In practice the vast majority celebrate Christmas and they run the gamut in how they celebrate it from "trying to keep Christ in Christmas" to "ho ho ho Santa Claus". However, there are many SDAs who do not observe Christmas because they realize it's origin is pagan. There is a growing number that have denounce the idea of observing Christmas but overall it seems to have no effect on the denomination. If any thing I will concede that SDA observation with Christmas is not in harmony with scripture. RE: Easter The SDA church as a denomination does not celebrate Easter. RE: Dietary Laws I am not sure what you mean by not honoring the Dietary Laws. As a denomination we have always taught that everyone should abstaining from unclean meat. Re: Communion SDA churches do not have communion weekly. Communion traditionally is done once every 4 months. It involves foot washing and distribution of grape juice (wine) and communion crackers (unleavened bread).
2/13/2016 3:08:11 PM	Where did Lent come from?
a_nubian Columbus, OH 52, joined Jan. 2011	Quote from followjesusonly: * Thanks very much, Nub. I sure would like to see some coming-together even if it was just a general statement of solidarity or agreement of some sort. No problem Follow, my pleasure. I need to make a correction, traditionally communion is done every 3 months. I am not sure about coming-together. Our eschatological views are different. We don't believe there will be a Third Temple built. Also we don't observe the Feast Days. However, there are SDAs I personally know that do keep the Feast Days but they are a very small minority. Either way our denomination doesn't recognize it as being a liturgical need.
2/17/2016 3:06:44 AM	Where did Lent come from?
share_n_love Fort Wayne, IN 60, joined Dec. 2012	Quote from a_nubian: RE: Christmas You are right Sharon. In practice the vast majority celebrate Christmas and they run the gamut in how they celebrate it from "trying to keep Christ in Christmas" to "ho ho ho Santa Claus". However, there are many SDAs who do not observe Christmas because they realize it's origin is pagan. There is a growing number that have denounce the idea of observing Christmas but overall it seems to have no effect on the denomination. If any thing I will concede that SDA observation with Christmas is not in harmony with scripture. RE: Easter The SDA church as a denomination does not celebrate Easter. RE: Dietary Laws I am not sure what you mean by not honoring the Dietary Laws. As a denomination we have always taught that everyone should abstaining from unclean meat. Re: Communion SDA churches do not have communion weekly. Communion traditionally is done once every 4 months. It involves foot washing and distribution of grape juice (wine) and communion crackers (unleavened bread). For years I have attended many SDA churches because I am in an area that there is no Messianic groups, and every one that I attended in Indiana ALL celebrate christmas and easter, as well as doing communion every Shabbat. This was the reason I quit going. You are correct in the foot-washing being every few months. We only do communion on passover. As for the 'clean' dietary Laws only a handful of people honored that, and it was often the discussion among themselves which sometimes ended in an argument over it. There are many Messianic Jews that honor christmas or they will honor both christmas and chanukkah/Hanukkah because their spouses are christian...but it is not the norm. We also celebrate the Holy Days and I do not believe the SDA does, or at least the ones I attended did not. [Edited 2/17/2016 3:07:58 AM ]
2/18/2016 9:24:31 PM	Where did Lent come from?
a_nubian Columbus, OH 52, joined Jan. 2011	Quote from share_n_love: For years I have attended many SDA churches because I am in an area that there is no Messianic groups, and every one that I attended in Indiana ALL celebrate christmas and easter, as well as doing communion every Shabbat. This was the reason I quit going. You are correct in the foot-washing being every few months. We only do communion on passover. As for the 'clean' dietary Laws only a handful of people honored that, and it was often the discussion among themselves which sometimes ended in an argument over it. There are many Messianic Jews that honor christmas or they will honor both christmas and chanukkah/Hanukkah because their spouses are christian...but it is not the norm. We also celebrate the Holy Days and I do not believe the SDA does, or at least the ones I attended did not. I did not dispute you regarding Christmas Sharon. I will paste what I originally said: RE: Christmas *You are right Sharon.* In practice the vast majority celebrate Christmas and they run the gamut in how they celebrate it from "trying to keep Christ in Christmas" to "ho ho ho Santa Claus". However, there are many SDAs who do not observe Christmas because they realize it's origin is pagan. There is a growing number that have denounce the idea of observing Christmas but overall it seems to have no effect on the denomination. RE: Easter The Seventh Day Adventist Church does not officially incorporate Easter as part of our observance. Now what I saw when I lived in Denver, two of our churches out of 15 or so in the metro area, had an Easter egg hunt and the other one had a Sunday service to commemorate the Resurrection. As far what was or is done in you area (Indiana) I can't dispute it. They may have had some sort of Easter celebration but it is Not observed as a 'Holy Day' in our denomination.
2/18/2016 9:41:39 PM	Where did Lent come from?
a_nubian Columbus, OH 52, joined Jan. 2011	Quote from share_n_love: For years I have attended many SDA churches because I am in an area that there is no Messianic groups, and every one that I attended in Indiana ALL celebrate christmas and easter, as well as doing communion every Shabbat. This was the reason I quit going. You are correct in the foot-washing being every few months. We only do communion on passover. As for the 'clean' dietary Laws only a handful of people honored that, and it was often the discussion among themselves which sometimes ended in an argument over it. There are many Messianic Jews that honor christmas or they will honor both christmas and chanukkah/Hanukkah because their spouses are christian...but it is not the norm. We also celebrate the Holy Days and I do not believe the SDA does, or at least the ones I attended did not. RE: Communion Frequency of the Lord's Supper W. E. Read (SDA source) These expressions "as oft as" and "as often as" seem to be the only indications we have; and the thought conveyed to our minds by these expressions is that of whenever we do it. This, I suppose, may be interpreted to apply as weekly, monthly, quarterly, or annually—whichever may be desired. All we have is the expression "as often as." Hence various bodies have adopted different regulations. Some, like the Brethren groups, celebrate these ordinances every Sunday morning; some, like the Baptists and others, every month. And there are still other groups, like ourselves, who celebrate the ordinances once a quarter. https://www.ministrymagazine.org/archive/1955/04/frequency-of-the-lords-supper Seventh-day Adventist Church "Adventists usually practice communion four times a year. The communion is an open service that is available to members and Christian non-members. Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh-day_Adventist_Church Eucharist (Wiki) Seventh-day Adventists[edit] *"In the Seventh-day Adventist Church the Holy Communion service customarily is celebrated once per quarter. The service includes the ordinance of footwashing and the Lord’s Supper."* Wikihttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucharist From the Seventh Day Adventist Church Manual Communion Service *The communion service customarily is celebrated once per quarter*. The service includes the ordinance of foot-washing followed by the Lord’s Supper. It should be a most sacred and joyous occasion to the congregation, pastor, and elders. The service usually takes place during the worship service but may be scheduled at other times. Page 119 https://www.adventist.org/fileadmin/adventist.org/files/articles/information/ChurchManual_2010.pdf Our Church Manual is online in a PDF form and you can scroll down to page 119 If the churches in Indiana are having Communion every week, they aren't in sync with the denomination. I can google the churches in Indiana or if you recall which ones you attended please post the names of the SDA churches in here that have Communion Weekly.
2/18/2016 10:27:37 PM	Where did Lent come from?
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	Communion should be available every day, as It is in the Catholic Church. "Give us this day our daily bread."
2/18/2016 11:08:51 PM	Where did Lent come from?
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 87, joined May. 2012	Quote from ludlowlowell: Communion should be available every day, as It is in the Catholic Church. "Give us this day our daily bread." The Lord's Prayer has nothing to do with Catholic communion. Our Father who art in Heaven, Hallowed be thy name; Indeed, Father, your name is so hallowed that we're going to call every single priest by your name, "Father," and the one in Rome, we're going to call him "The Holy Father" because your name is so hallowed. Hallow, hallow, hallow, hallow. Communion should be available whenever the members of any particular sect decide to make it available. hallow: 1 : CONSECRATE 2 : REVERE
2/20/2016 1:38:23 PM	Where did Lent come from?
visitingfriends Evansville, WI 76, joined Jan. 2011	Quote from ludlowlowell: Communion should be available every day, as It is in the Catholic Church. "Give us this day our daily bread." Luke 24:30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them. Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. Acts 5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ. Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight. 1 Corinthians 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?
2/20/2016 3:24:12 PM	Where did Lent come from?
share_n_love Fort Wayne, IN 60, joined Dec. 2012	Quote from a_nubian: Page 119 https://www.adventist.org/fileadmin/adventist.org/files/articles/information/ChurchManual_2010.pdf Our Church Manual is online in a PDF form and you can scroll down to page 119 If the churches in Indiana are having Communion every week, they aren't in sync with the denomination. I can google the churches in Indiana or if you recall which ones you attended please post the names of the SDA churches in here that have Communion Weekly. North Vernon, Columbus, Fort Wayne. All in Indiana. Based on when Passover was done as given by YHVH God Himself, 'As oft as' means 'when you do it'. Passover is done yearly. Yahshua became the Passover Lamb so it still is done yearly. YHVH God gave NO indication that it is to be done whenever 'man' decides it should be....but as always, man has taken it upon himself to change a LOT of God's commands.
2/20/2016 3:26:28 PM	Where did Lent come from?
share_n_love Fort Wayne, IN 60, joined Dec. 2012	Quote from visitingfriends: Luke 24:30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them. Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. Acts 5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ. Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight. 1 Corinthians 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? The breaking of bread is a sign of fellowship between Believers, it has nothing to do with the purpose of communion...DON'T confuse the 2.
2/20/2016 5:05:55 PM	Where did Lent come from?
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 87, joined May. 2012	Quote from share_n_love: North Vernon, Columbus, Fort Wayne. All in Indiana. Based on when Passover was done as given by YHVH God Himself, 'As oft as' means 'when you do it'. Passover is done yearly. Yahshua became the Passover Lamb so it still is done yearly. YHVH God gave NO indication that it is to be done whenever 'man' decides it should be....but as always, man has taken it upon himself to change a LOT of God's commands. Yah but, The Infallible Pope, His Royal Majesty The Holy Father, The Bishop of Rome, The Vicar of Jesus Christ, The Successor of the Prince of the Apostles, The Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church, The Primate of Italy, The Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province, The Sovereign of the State of Vatican City, The Servant of the Servants of God, and his tool Ludlow the Unteachable says "Communion should be available every day, as It is in the Catholic Church." Ludlow makes a lot of assertions.
2/21/2016 4:20:33 AM	Where did Lent come from?
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	Give us this day our daily bread.
2/22/2016 12:49:02 AM	Where did Lent come from?
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 87, joined May. 2012
2/22/2016 9:35:40 AM	Where did Lent come from?
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	Did you guys know that the Catholic Douay Rheims version of Matthew says "give us this day our supersubstantial bread", not " daily bread"? The Lord's Prayer is all about daily Communion.
2/22/2016 1:00:26 PM	Where did Lent come from?
visitingfriends Evansville, WI 76, joined Jan. 2011	Quote from ludlowlowell: Did you guys know that the Catholic Douay Rheims version of Matthew says "give us this day our supersubstantial bread", not " daily bread"? The Lord's Prayer is all about daily Communion. You are absolutely correct Lud, many think they are asking for physical food but it really means spiritual food.
2/22/2016 1:02:09 PM	Where did Lent come from?
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 87, joined May. 2012	Quote from ludlowlowell: Did you guys know that the Catholic Douay Rheims version of Matthew says "give us this day our supersubstantial bread", not " daily bread"? The Lord's Prayer is all about daily Communion. Much as I don't like your church changing and/or adding to Jesus' words, I could see how "daily bread" could be a reference to spiritual bread, however that should not be associated with your paganistic ritual cannibalism and Voodoo magic ceremony.
2/22/2016 3:36:12 PM	Where did Lent come from?
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	FJO, did you know that before Luther defected from the Church, the devil appeared to him in a vision and told him the Mass was a blasphemy? This was by Luther's own admission.
2/22/2016 7:18:36 PM	Where did Lent come from?
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 87, joined May. 2012	Quote from ludlowlowell: FJO, did you know that before Luther defected from the Church, the devil appeared to him in a vision and told him the Mass was a blasphemy? This was by Luther's own admission. You'd have to provide some support for your statement, but I suspect it's more likely that the Spirit of Truth and/or Gabriel would appear to him and tell him that. I found the quote but I haven't found where Luther said the devil told him. "The Mass is the greatest blasphemy of God, and the highest idolatry upon earth, an abomination the like of which has never been in Christendom since the time of the Apostles." -Luther Sounds right to me.
2/23/2016 9:22:00 AM	Where did Lent come from?
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	Read "The Facts About Luther" by Patrick O'Hare.
2/23/2016 5:38:24 PM	Where did Lent come from?
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 87, joined May. 2012	Quote from ludlowlowell: Read "The Facts About Luther" by Patrick O'Hare. No, you post the relevant parts that show where Luther said he heard all this from the Devil. Otherwise, you're a liar.
2/23/2016 10:24:08 PM	Where did Lent come from?
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His Blood, you will not have life in you. For Pharisees, this is a hard saying. For Jesus' true and devoted followers (Catholics), these are words of life.
2/24/2016 2:20:49 AM	Where did Lent come from?
share_n_love Fort Wayne, IN 60, joined Dec. 2012	Please keep it to the topic of lent....
2/24/2016 11:03:01 AM	Where did Lent come from?
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	Did you know that Moses and Elijah also kept a Lent---both fasted for forty days. [Edited 2/24/2016 11:03:28 AM ]
2/24/2016 1:39:19 PM	Where did Lent come from?
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 87, joined May. 2012	Quote from ludlowlowell: Did you know that Moses and Elijah also kept a Lent---both fasted for forty days. I'm sure Sharen knows as much about Moses and Elijah as you do, but why don't you school her on it anyway?
2/24/2016 9:50:33 PM	Where did Lent come from?
indianadave1951 Elkhart, IN 65, joined Dec. 2010	Where did Lent come from? 1959, American Express
2/25/2016 2:06:56 PM	Where did Lent come from?
cupocheer Assumption, IL 67, joined May. 2010
2/25/2016 2:27:34 PM	Where did Lent come from?
share_n_love Fort Wayne, IN 60, joined Dec. 2012	Quote from ludlowlowell: Did you know that Moses and Elijah also kept a Lent---both fasted for forty days. Just because one fasts Lud does not mean they are honoring lent. Why don't you go back to the article I posted, read it again, and provide proof that Moses & Elijah honored lent. Because if Moses was denied entering the land of milk & honey because he disrespected God over the 'rock', show me where God would allow him to 'honor a pagan god' and still be allowed to see God's kingdom? Again, the first part of the article... The pagan origin of Ash Wednesday By Craig Portwood It's not mentioned in the Bible. None of the apostles observed it. Nowhere are Christians commanded to keep it. It was not even officially practiced until nearly 1000 years after Christ's resurrection. Like so many other non-biblical “Christian” customs, it has pagan roots. It's a sad fact that modern Christianity has appropriated so many customs from the practice of the heathens, that one might wonder if it should still be called Christianity.
2/25/2016 3:51:47 PM	Where did Lent come from?
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	But what is Lent? A forty day fast, or a forty day self-denial. Elijah did it. Moses did it. Jesus did it. Jesus' followers (Catholics) still do it. Did they call it "Lent"? No, "Lent" is an English word, and Moses, Elijah, and Jesus did not speak English.
2/25/2016 5:08:21 PM	Where did Lent come from?
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 87, joined May. 2012	Quote from ludlowlowell: But what is Lent? A forty day fast, or a forty day self-denial. Elijah did it. Moses did it. Jesus did it. Jesus' followers (Catholics) still do it. Did they call it "Lent"? No, "Lent" is an English word, and Moses, Elijah, and Jesus did not speak English. Catholics are not Jesus' followers. If they were, they would obey Him and this they refuse to do. (Sorry, Sharen. Make Ludlow stop introducing non-lenten Catholic assertions. When he does, they have to be rebutted.)
2/25/2016 8:11:15 PM	Where did Lent come from?
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	Even if the Catholic Church is as terrible as you say, that doesn't change the fact that Elijah, Moses, and Jesus all fasted for a forty-day period (they kept a Lent).
2/25/2016 8:28:52 PM	Where did Lent come from?
cupocheer Assumption, IL 67, joined May. 2010
2/25/2016 10:56:29 PM	Where did Lent come from?
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 87, joined May. 2012	Quote from ludlowlowell: Even if the Catholic Church is as terrible as you say, that doesn't change the fact that Elijah, Moses, and Jesus all fasted for a forty-day period (they kept a Lent). Jesus did not fast for forty freaking days. He was absent for 40 days. [Edited 2/25/2016 10:56:38 PM ]
2/26/2016 10:42:26 AM	Where did Lent come from?
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	If you will read Matthew chapter 4 you will see that Jesus did fast, and was hungry after that fast.
2/26/2016 2:17:53 PM	Where did Lent come from?
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 87, joined May. 2012	Quote from ludlowlowell: If you will read Matthew chapter 4 you will see that Jesus did fast, and was hungry after that fast. I was hungry this morning. Then I broke my fast with what is called "break-fast." I had fasted for 8 hours! What verse is that in Mt chap 4? Can you say? Or wasn't there enough space to include the verse number? Why are you so consistently sloppy about these things? THE FORTY DAYS 136:3.1 Jesus had endured the great temptation of his mortal bestowal before his baptism when he had been wet with the dews of Mount Hermon for six weeks. There on Mount Hermon, as an unaided mortal of the realm, he had met and defeated the Urantia pretender, Caligastia, the prince of this world. That eventful day, on the universe records, Jesus of Nazareth had become the Planetary Prince of Urantia. And this Prince of Urantia, so soon to be proclaimed supreme Sovereign of Nebadon, now went into forty days of retirement to formulate the plans and determine upon the technique of proclaiming the new kingdom of God in the hearts of men. 136:3.2 After his baptism he entered upon the forty days of adjusting himself to the changed relationships of the world and the universe occasioned by the personalization of his Adjuster. During this isolation in the Perean hills he determined upon the policy to be pursued and the methods to be employed in the new and changed phase of earth life which he was about to inaugurate. 136:3.3 Jesus did not go into retirement for the purpose of fasting and for the affliction of his soul. He was not an ascetic, and he came forever to destroy all such notions regarding the approach to God. His reasons for seeking this retirement were entirely different from those which had actuated Moses and Elijah, and even John the Baptist. Jesus was then wholly self-conscious concerning his relation to the universe of his making and also to the universe of universes, supervised by the Paradise Father, his Father in heaven. He now fully recalled the bestowal charge and its instructions administered by his elder brother, Immanuel, ere he entered upon his Urantia incarnation. He now clearly and fully comprehended all these far-flung relationships, and he desired to be away for a season of quiet meditation so that he could think out the plans and decide upon the procedures for the prosecution of his public labors in behalf of this world and for all other worlds in his local universe. 136:3.4 While wandering about in the hills, seeking a suitable shelter, Jesus encountered his universe chief executive, Gabriel, the Bright and Morning Star of Nebadon. Gabriel now re-established personal communication with the Creator Son of the universe; they met directly for the first time since Michael took leave of his associates on Salvington when he went to Edentia preparatory to entering upon the Urantia bestowal. Gabriel, by direction of Immanuel and on authority of the Uversa Ancients of Days, now laid before Jesus information indicating that his bestowal experience on Urantia was practically finished so far as concerned the earning of the perfected sovereignty of his universe and the termination of the Lucifer rebellion. The former was achieved on the day of his baptism when the personalization of his Adjuster demonstrated the perfection and completion of his bestowal in the likeness of mortal flesh, and the latter was a fact of history on that day when he came down from Mount Hermon to join the waiting lad, Tiglath. Jesus was now informed, upon the highest authority of the local universe and the superuniverse, that his bestowal work was finished in so far as it affected his personal status in relation to sovereignty and rebellion. He had already had this assurance direct from Paradise in the baptismal vision and in the phenomenon of the personalization of his indwelling Thought Adjuster. 136:3.5 While he tarried on the mountain, talking with Gabriel, the Constellation Father of Edentia appeared to Jesus and Gabriel in person, saying: “The records are completed. The sovereignty of Michael No. 611,121 over his universe of Nebadon rests in completion at the right hand of the Universal Father. I bring to you the bestowal release of Immanuel, your sponsor-brother for the Urantia incarnation. You are at liberty now or at any subsequent time, in the manner of your own choosing, to terminate your incarnation bestowal, ascend to the right hand of your Father, receive your sovereignty, and assume your well-earned unconditional rulership of all Nebadon. I also testify to the completion of the records of the superuniverse, by authorization of the Ancients of Days, having to do with the termination of all sin-rebellion in your universe and endowing you with full and unlimited authority to deal with any and all such possible upheavals in the future. Technically, your work on Urantia and in the flesh of the mortal creature is finished. Your course from now on is a matter of your own choosing.” 136:3.6 When the Most High Father of Edentia had taken leave, Jesus held long converse with Gabriel regarding the welfare of the universe and, sending greetings to Immanuel, proffered his assurance that, in the work which he was about to undertake on Urantia, he would be ever mindful of the counsel he had received in connection with the prebestowal charge administered on Salvington. 136:3.7 Throughout all of these forty days of isolation James and John the sons of Zebedee were engaged in searching for Jesus. Many times they were not far from his abiding place, but never did they find him. -The Urantia Book
2/26/2016 2:20:44 PM	Where did Lent come from?
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	The Bible says Jesus fasted. I believe the Bible, not William Sadler's Urantia Book.
2/26/2016 2:30:42 PM	Where did Lent come from?
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 87, joined May. 2012	Quote from ludlowlowell: The Bible says Jesus fasted. I believe the Bible, not William Sadler's Urantia Book. Give me the book, chapter, and verse. Why are you so sloppy about such things? The bible also says: "Call no man your father upon the earth: "for one is your Father, which is in heaven." (Matthew 23:9) Jesus: "Why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46) "If a man love me, he will keep my words."(John 14:23) "He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings." (John 14:24) And the word which you have heard, is not mine; but the Father's who sent me." (John 14:24) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (1 John 2:4) And you're perfectly happy to ignore all of that. What a phony you are, saying, "The bible says..."
2/26/2016 3:13:25 PM	Where did Lent come from?
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	Matthew 4:2 specifically said Jesus fasted for forty days.
2/26/2016 5:23:35 PM	Where did Lent come from?
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 87, joined May. 2012	Quote from ludlowlowell: Matthew 4:2 specifically said Jesus fasted for forty days. Matthew 4:2 is wrong. Matthew 23:9, Jesus himself even, specifically said "Call no man your father upon the earth: "for one is your Father, which is in heaven." Why do you believe one "specifically said" but not the other "specifically said"? You're a phony, that's why. You're a shape shifter. Who should I believe, Jesus, or your church? Jesus was alone for 40 days. Matthew was not there. The celestial authors of The Urantia Book were there with Jesus. They know what happened. Why can't some people accept the authority of The Urantia Book? No humility, that's why. You lack the proper humility to God. https://youtu.be/H5TyNPG88aU
2/26/2016 6:29:57 PM	Where did Lent come from?
a_nubian Columbus, OH 52, joined Jan. 2011	Quote from share_n_love: North Vernon, Columbus, Fort Wayne. All in Indiana. Based on when Passover was done as given by YHVH God Himself, 'As oft as' means 'when you do it'. Passover is done yearly. Yahshua became the Passover Lamb so it still is done yearly. YHVH God gave NO indication that it is to be done whenever 'man' decides it should be....but as always, man has taken it upon himself to change a LOT of God's commands. Those churches in Indiana are outliers when it comes to communion. I have not checked for myself, I am taking your word for it. In all the SDA churches I have visited in my lifetime: Oregon, California, Wyoming, Nebraska, Colorado, Michigan, Ohio, PA, VA, AL, GA, NJ, NY, and a few other states, none of them had communion ever Sabbath. We are not obligated to keep nor is it a sacrament to observe Passover. Passover, at that time pointed to the Cross, Communion, points back to the Cross. Therefore, as Christians we are to do Communion. The bible does not give the frequency when we are to observe Communion, that's why it said, " and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me. In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes."1 Corinthians 11:24–26 Jesus, was the Passover Lamb, that is why He said, in reference to Communion, "Do this in Rememberence Me". There are Jewish converts in our denomination, that remember Passover from a hereditary perspective, most notable Doug Batchelor, that give celebration to God for their deliverance from Egypt.
2/26/2016 6:38:27 PM	Where did Lent come from?
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	If Matthew was wrong about Jesus fasting maybe he was wrong about "call no man father". In fact, if you go that route, maybe all four gospel writers were all wrong about everything. According to this kind of logic, maybe Jesus never existed. Rejecting parts of the Bible is a slippery slope.

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