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3/4/2016 12:26:04 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,616)
Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


1. Everybody
2. Repentant sinners only







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3/4/2016 12:51:51 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  
cupocheer
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (172,369)
Assumption, IL
67, joined May. 2010


All that seek him, acknowledge him, and ask HIm into their heart (aka soul).

3/4/2016 12:53:22 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,399)
Kingman, AZ
87, joined May. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:


"For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." (Mat 6:14-15)

3/4/2016 2:15:39 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,616)
Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


Suppose Joe Jones forgave all who had offended him, but persisted in sin with no attempt to repent. Could Joe Jones be saved?

3/4/2016 2:55:34 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,399)
Kingman, AZ
87, joined May. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Suppose Joe Jones forgave all who had offended him, but persisted in sin with no attempt to repent. Could Joe Jones be saved?


You need to go to Jesus with your questions, if you question Him. Only He can answer you and your human analogies. In the meantime, Jesus says:

if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you

Isa_55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD

3/4/2016 3:08:39 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,616)
Panama City, FL
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So your answer is, is long as we forgive our enemies, we can sin with impunity and still get to Heaven?

3/4/2016 3:33:48 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,399)
Kingman, AZ
87, joined May. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
So your answer is, is long as we forgive our enemies, we can sin with impunity and still get to Heaven?


It's Jesus' answer you need to know, not mine, and Jesus says:

"if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you"

3/4/2016 3:39:45 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

kb2222
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,712)
Jacksonville, FL
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
So your answer is, is long as we forgive our enemies, we can sin with impunity and still get to Heaven?

No, you can't sin with impunity and you can't blasphemy God with impunity.. You are a unrepentant sinner that even mocks your confessions to Catholic Priests. So, don't think for one moment you will escape the consequences of your conduct solely because you forgive those who have trespassed against you.

3/4/2016 5:07:06 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,616)
Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


But KB, if there is no Hell, what ARE the consequences of my actions? That my personality will become extinct? That's not much punishment---that's like a $35 fine for first degree murder.

3/4/2016 6:07:17 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  
rtay
Port Saint Lucie, FL
65, joined Aug. 2010


Lud,I hope this fits in your topic,if not I apologize.rt

Believers have experienced once-for-all God’s judicial forgiveness, which they received the moment Christ was trusted as Savior. We are no longer condemned, no longer under judgment, no longer destined for hell (Rom. 8:1). The eternal Judge has declared us pardoned, justified, righteous. No one, human or satanic, can condemn or bring any “charge against God’s elect” (Rom. 8:33–34).
But because we still fall into sin, we frequently require God’s gracious forgiveness, His forgiveness not now as Judge but as Father. “If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us,” John warns believers. But, he goes on to assure us, “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:8–9).
During the Last Supper, Jesus began washing the disciples’ feet as a demonstration of the humble, serving spirit they should have as His followers. At first Peter refused, but when Jesus said, “If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me,” Peter went to the other extreme, wanting to be bathed all over. Jesus replied, “ ‘He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.’ For He knew the one who was betraying Him; for this reason He said, ‘Not all of you are clean’ ” (John 13:5–11).

Asking forgiveness implies confession. Feet that are not presented to Christ cannot be washed by Him. Sin that is not confessed cannot be forgiven. That is the condition John makes plain in the text just quoted above: “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9). To confess means basically to agree with, and when we confess our sins we agree with God about them that they are wicked, evil, defiling, and have no part in those who belong to Him.

A Puritan saint of many generations ago prayed, “Grant me never to lose sight of the exceeding sinfulness of sin, the exceeding righteousness of salvation, the exceeding glory of Christ, the exceeding beauty of holiness, and the exceeding wonder of grace.” At another time he prayed, “I am guilty but pardoned. I am lost but saved. I am wandering but found. I am sinning but cleansed. Give me perpetual broken-heartedness. Keep me always clinging to Thy cross” (Arthur Bennett, ed., The Valley of Vision: A Collection of Puritan Prayers and Devotions.
In the matter of forgiveness, God deals with us as we deal with others. We are to forgive others as freely and graciously as God forgives us. The Puritan writer Thomas Manton said, “There is none so tender to others as they which have received mercy themselves, for they know how gently God hath dealt with them.” GTY

3/4/2016 6:20:50 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,399)
Kingman, AZ
87, joined May. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
But KB, if there is no Hell, what ARE the consequences of my actions? That my personality will become extinct? That's not much punishment---that's like a $35 fine for first degree murder.


Yes, that you will become extinct. "The wages of sin is death." If death isn't much of a punishment for you then knock yourself out. Go for it. And actually, for the most part, the "fine" for first degree murder is usually the electric chair or some other life ending event, not a $35 fine. You're a fool to be playing your disobedience/froward game with God.

3/4/2016 7:01:30 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

kb2222
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Jacksonville, FL
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
But KB, if there is no Hell, what ARE the consequences of my actions? That my personality will become extinct? That's not much punishment---that's like a $35 fine for first degree murder.

This shows how corrupt/insane you truly are.

3/5/2016 12:33:45 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

isna_la_wica
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,753)
Brantford, ON
61, joined Mar. 2012


Mmmm I find your conclusion kinda lacking Lud, sorry.

Who does Jesus forgive?

Luke 23:34 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

34 And Jesus said, `Father, forgive them, for they have not known what they do;' and parting his garments they cast a lot.

So in a technical way, every body was forgiven.

And the Bible is clear, that reconciliation is offered to all. But we have to accept that which is offered to us, and reconcile our selves to God. And to do that, we have to admit that we are sinners and ask for and accept that he forgave us.

Romans 5:10 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

10 for if, being enemies, we have been reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved in his life.

Kinda like, I offer you a peace pipe, but you reject it? Then we still are not at peace, are we?

3/5/2016 12:46:20 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

kb2222
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,712)
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I think they who would receive forgiveness must show forgiveness and, they must repent and abide in God's loving will.

3/5/2016 10:55:44 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,616)
Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


For once we agree. Of course faith, hope, charity (good works), being born again (Baptism), Communion, and Confession (if we have sinned) are also necessary for salvation.

Some people like to cherry-pick the Bible. Take Martin Luther for instance---he sees in the Bible where St. Paul says "by faith we are saved" ad, forgetting that there are verses that say hope, good works, being born again, receiving Communion, confessing one's sins, and forgiving one's enemies, he fixes on the faith part, and wrongly assumes that faith is all one needs. Or FJO, who reads about forgiveness, neglects all those other verses that say different things. Tnteacher does this with "not one jot or tittle of the law will pass away"---he fixates on this, forgets that Jesus (and Peter's angel) says we can eat anything, so Jesus' meaning is that none of the ten commandments will pass away. And you do it, too, KB---you see where Jesus loves and forgives, and you assume He forgives everybody. You forget that Jesus said, sixteen different times, that unrepentant souls go to Hell.

The Bible is a whole. We aren' t going to understand the Bible unless we view the entire Bible.



[Edited 3/5/2016 10:56:59 PM ]

3/6/2016 1:04:29 AM Who does Jesus forgive?  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,399)
Kingman, AZ
87, joined May. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
For once we agree. Of course faith, hope, charity (good works), being born again (Baptism), Communion, and Confession (if we have sinned) are also necessary for salvation.

Some people like to cherry-pick the Bible. Take Martin Luther for instance---he sees in the Bible where St. Paul says "by faith we are saved" ad, forgetting that there are verses that say hope, good works, being born again, receiving Communion, confessing one's sins, and forgiving one's enemies, he fixes on the faith part, and wrongly assumes that faith is all one needs. Or FJO, who reads about forgiveness, neglects all those other verses that say different things. Tnteacher does this with "not one jot or tittle of the law will pass away"---he fixates on this, forgets that Jesus (and Peter's angel) says we can eat anything, so Jesus' meaning is that none of the ten commandments will pass away. And you do it, too, KB---you see where Jesus loves and forgives, and you assume He forgives everybody. You forget that Jesus said, sixteen different times, that unrepentant souls go to Hell.

The Bible is a whole. We aren' t going to understand the Bible unless we view the entire Bible.


All you need to know in the entire bible, is the answer to this one question:

...Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? (Luke 10:25)

Nothing else matters.

3/6/2016 6:40:57 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,616)
Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


You're a cherry picker, FJO. That verse is not the only verse about eternal life in the Bible, or even in the direct teachings of Christ. Jesus told Nicodemus that we must be born again to have eternal life. Jesus says in the sixth chapter of John that we must eat His Body and drink His Blood to have eternal life.

3/6/2016 6:52:44 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,399)
Kingman, AZ
87, joined May. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
You're a cherry picker, FJO. That verse is not the only verse about eternal life in the Bible, or even in the direct teachings of Christ. Jesus told Nicodemus that we must be born again to have eternal life. Jesus says in the sixth chapter of John that we must eat His Body and drink His Blood to have eternal life.


Being born again is when you choose to do the Father's will, love God and love your neighbor as you love yourself. It's not about a priest splashing you with water. And no, Jesus never said to eat His body and drink His blood.

Do me a favor, lud, read this every day for a week, and if you do it with an open mind, open to the Spirit of Truth, I guarantee you will grow closer to Jesus.

ESTABLISHING THE REMEMBRANCE SUPPER

179:5.1 As they brought Jesus the third cup of wine, the “cup of blessing,” he arose from the couch and, taking the cup in his hands, blessed it, saying: “Take this cup, all of you, and drink of it. This shall be the cup of my remembrance. This is the cup of the blessing of a new dispensation of grace and truth. This shall be to you the emblem of the bestowal and ministry of the divine Spirit of Truth. And I will not again drink this cup with you until I drink in new form with you in the Father’s eternal kingdom.”

179:5.2 The apostles all sensed that something out of the ordinary was transpiring as they drank of this cup of blessing in profound reverence and perfect silence. The old Passover commemorated the emergence of their fathers from a state of racial slavery into individual freedom; now the Master was instituting a new remembrance supper as a symbol of the new dispensation wherein the enslaved individual emerges from the bondage of ceremonialism and selfishness into the spiritual joy of the brotherhood and fellowship of the liberated faith sons of the living God.

179:5.3 When they had finished drinking this new cup of remembrance, the Master took up the bread and, after giving thanks, broke it in pieces and, directing them to pass it around, said: “Take this bread of remembrance and eat it. I have told you that I am the bread of life. And this bread of life is the united life of the Father and the Son in one gift. The word of the Father, as revealed in the Son, is indeed the bread of life.” When they had partaken of the bread of remembrance, the symbol of the living word of truth incarnated in the likeness of mortal flesh, they all sat down.

179:5.4 In instituting this remembrance supper, the Master, as was always his habit, resorted to parables and symbols. He employed symbols because he wanted to teach certain great spiritual truths in such a manner as to make it difficult for his successors to attach precise interpretations and definite meanings to his words. In this way he sought to prevent successive generations from crystallizing his teaching and binding down his spiritual meanings by the dead chains of tradition and dogma. In the establishment of the only ceremony or sacrament associated with his whole life mission, Jesus took great pains to suggest his meanings rather than to commit himself to precise definitions. He did not wish to destroy the individual’s concept of divine communion by establishing a precise form; neither did he desire to limit the believer’s spiritual imagination by formally cramping it. He rather sought to set man’s reborn soul free upon the joyous wings of a new and living spiritual liberty.

179:5.5 Notwithstanding the Master’s effort thus to establish this new sacrament of the remembrance, those who followed after him in the intervening centuries saw to it that his express desire was effectively thwarted in that his simple spiritual symbolism of that last night in the flesh has been reduced to precise interpretations and subjected to the almost mathematical precision of a set formula. Of all Jesus’ teachings none have become more tradition-standardized.

179:5.6 This supper of remembrance, when it is partaken of by those who are Son-believing and God-knowing, does not need to have associated with its symbolism any of man’s puerile misinterpretations regarding the meaning of the divine presence, for upon all such occasions the Master is really present. The remembrance supper is the believer’s symbolic rendezvous with Michael. When you become thus spirit-conscious, the Son is actually present, and his spirit fraternizes with the indwelling fragment of his Father. -The Urantia Book

Of all human knowledge, that which is of greatest value is to know the religious life of Jesus and how he lived it. -196:1.3 The Urantia Book

                                                                                     

3/12/2016 1:59:22 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  
josiemae
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,273)
Fayetteville, NC
59, joined Jan. 2008


We are all prodigal sons and daughters.

3/13/2016 3:54:50 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

ludlowlowell
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Panama City, FL
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I agree. That's why we need a Savior.

3/13/2016 3:57:25 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  
cupocheer
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (172,369)
Assumption, IL
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We all have a Savior. Jesus Christ is his name.

All we have to do is believe in him and accept him into our hearts.

3/13/2016 5:07:58 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,616)
Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


That is true, but we need to keep in mind that believing in Jesus means believing in everything He taught, including the Church He founded and the pope He appointed. It means believing that hope and charity (good works) are just as important as faith. It means accepting transubstantiation, Purgatory, Mary, and the saints.

3/13/2016 5:55:18 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,399)
Kingman, AZ
87, joined May. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
That is true, but we need to keep in mind that believing in Jesus means believing in everything He taught,


But you don't believe in everything Jesus taught. You refuse to obey Him in the matter of calling priests, "Father," and He says you don't love Him because of your disobedience.

including the Church He founded and the pope He appointed.


But He didn't found your church. The church He founded was the spiritual brotherhood of all believers.

157:4.4 After they had partaken of their meal and were engaged in discussing plans for the forthcoming tour of the Decapolis, Jesus suddenly looked up into their faces and said: "Now that a full day has passed since you assented to Simon Peter's declaration regarding the identity of the Son of Man, I would ask if you still hold to your decision?" On hearing this, the twelve stood upon their feet, and Simon Peter, stepping a few paces forward toward Jesus, said: "Yes, Master, we do. We believe that you are the Son of the living God." And Peter sat down with his brethren.

157:4.5 Jesus, still standing, then said to the twelve: "You are my chosen ambassadors, but I know that, in the circumstances, you could not entertain this belief as a result of mere human knowledge. This is a revelation of the spirit of my Father to your inmost souls. And when, therefore, you make this confession by the insight of the spirit of my Father which dwells within you, I am led to declare that upon this foundation will I build the brotherhood of the kingdom of heaven. Upon this rock of spiritual reality will I build the living temple of spiritual fellowship in the eternal realities of my Father's kingdom. All the forces of evil and the hosts of sin shall not prevail against this human fraternity of the divine spirit. And while my Father's spirit shall ever be the divine guide and mentor of all who enter the bonds of this spirit fellowship, to you and your successors I now deliver the keys of the outward kingdom -- the authority over things temporal -- the social and economic features of this association of men and women as fellows of the kingdom." And again he charged them, for the time being, that they should tell no man that he was the Son of God. -The Urantia Book

Nor did Jesus appoint anyone to be pope. Jesus did not want that.

Luk 22:25 And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.
Luk 22:26 But ye shall not be so:

It means accepting transubstantiation, Purgatory, Mary, and the saints.


Jesus taught none of those things.

3/29/2016 12:20:57 AM Who does Jesus forgive?  

erikbenn
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,949)
Spokane, WA
41, joined Nov. 2010


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Suppose Joe Jones forgave all who had offended him, but persisted in sin with no attempt to repent. Could Joe Jones be saved?
How can anyone know how to forgive an then yet reject forgiveness himself? No, he will not be saved because does not ask for it.

3/29/2016 12:38:39 AM Who does Jesus forgive?  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,616)
Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


Erik is right.



[Edited 3/29/2016 12:39:05 AM ]

3/29/2016 1:42:35 AM Who does Jesus forgive?  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,399)
Kingman, AZ
87, joined May. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
You're a cherry picker, FJO.


You're a cherry picker yourself. You don't believe this:

"Call no man your father upon the earth: "for one is your Father, which is in heaven." (Matthew 23:9)

You believe some, you discard some.

3/29/2016 1:45:20 AM Who does Jesus forgive?  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,399)
Kingman, AZ
87, joined May. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
I agree. That's why we need a Savior.


Jesus IS a savior whether or not he died for anyone's sins. Like a fireman leading you to safety out of a smoke filled burning house, Jesus shows us the way to salvation by doing the Father's will, aka "bearing witness unto the truth."

                                                                                     

3/29/2016 12:27:39 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,616)
Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


A better analogy---Jesus is like the soldier who threw himself on a grenade to save the rest of the squad.

3/29/2016 2:37:01 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,399)
Kingman, AZ
87, joined May. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
A better analogy---Jesus is like the soldier who threw himself on a grenade to save the rest of the squad.


Why is your analogy better? Just because you say it's better?

I don't think so.

3/29/2016 3:03:54 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,399)
Kingman, AZ
87, joined May. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
A better analogy---Jesus is like the soldier who threw himself on a grenade to save the rest of the squad.


I think your preferred analogy reflects the fact that you don't love God as Jesus says, and also it may be another Satanic statement such as you are wont to make as in when you suggested that KB pray to Mary, just try it for a while, see if you like it, see if praying to Mary doesn't make you closer to Jesus. "Here, just have a few puffs off this cigarette, it won't hurt to just try it. Here, just take a few bites of this forbidden fruit, it won't hurt, just try a few bites. I guarantee you will not surely die."

3/29/2016 4:55:16 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,616)
Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


Those who have no devotion to Mary violate the commandment "Honor thy father and thy mother".

"Generations will call me blessed."

--Luke 1:48

3/29/2016 5:10:34 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,399)
Kingman, AZ
87, joined May. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Those who have no devotion to Mary violate the commandment "Honor thy father and thy mother".

"Generations will call me blessed."

--Luke 1:48


Mat 12:47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
Mat 12:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
Mat 12:49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
Mat 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.


3/29/2016 5:21:36 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

kb2222
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,712)
Jacksonville, FL
75, joined Apr. 2011
online now!


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Those who have no devotion to Mary violate the commandment "Honor thy father and thy mother".

"Generations will call me blessed."

--Luke 1:48

Mary wasn't your mother you idiot.

3/29/2016 5:31:09 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,399)
Kingman, AZ
87, joined May. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Those who have no devotion to Mary violate the commandment "Honor thy father and thy mother".

"Generations will call me blessed."

--Luke 1:48


"Generations may call me blessed but Jesus, my son, will say, "Mary who? Who is my mother?"

3/29/2016 5:35:21 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,399)
Kingman, AZ
87, joined May. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Those who have no devotion to Mary violate the commandment "Honor thy father and thy mother"


Those who have no devotion to Jesus will violate His commandment to "Call no man your father upon the earth: "for one is your Father, which is in heaven." (Matthew 23:9)

That's you, Lud. You don't love God enough to obey Him.

"Why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46)

Why, Lud?

“Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.” (Mark 7:9)

That's you, Lud. Rejecting the commandment of God that you may keep your own tradition.

"If a man love me, he will keep my words."(John 14:23)
"He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings." (John 14:24)

3/31/2016 12:58:43 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,616)
Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


KB, Mary is indeed our mother. She is the New Eve. According to Catholic doctrine, Jesus appointed her the new mother of the human race when He said to John, "Son, behold thy mother. Mother, behold thy Son."

3/31/2016 1:42:44 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,399)
Kingman, AZ
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
KB, Mary is indeed our mother. She is the New Eve. According to Catholic doctrine, Jesus appointed her the new mother of the human race when He said to John, "Son, behold thy mother. Mother, behold thy Son."


Catholic doctrine, Catholic assertions. The doctrines of men.

She is not "our mother." She is not the "New Eve." She was not assumed into heaven. She was not a virgin all her life. You are into a sub-cult of Mary idolatry within your larger cult.

Mat 12:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

3/31/2016 2:09:38 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

kb2222
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,712)
Jacksonville, FL
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
KB, Mary is indeed our mother. She is the New Eve. According to Catholic doctrine, Jesus appointed her the new mother of the human race when He said to John, "Son, behold thy mother. Mother, behold thy Son."

Catholic self-serving BS.

That's right, Ludlow, the Catholic church was torturing and burning people to death at the stake for over 500 years calling them witches and heretics until they lost their "political power" as you say or as I say "because secular law criminalized it" which shows the depth of their oppressive, inhumane and murderous treatment of mankind.

3/31/2016 5:15:08 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,616)
Panama City, FL
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The Church set up the Inquisition as a self-defense mechanism, to defend her people from the heretics, who were like today's heretics---medieval heretics would burn Catholics' crops, poison Catholics' wells, kill and kidnap priests, and burn down Catholic churches.

3/31/2016 5:52:30 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,399)
Kingman, AZ
87, joined May. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
The Church set up the Inquisition as a self-defense mechanism, to defend her people from the heretics, who were like today's heretics---medieval heretics would burn Catholics' crops, poison Catholics' wells, kill and kidnap priests, and burn down Catholic churches.


So much for the teachings of Jesus who you say founded your church:

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

Mat 15:8-9 These [Catholics] draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. ...in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

3/31/2016 6:25:21 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

ludlowlowell
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I believe in forgiving sinners who repent. So did the various Inquisitions---all one had to do with as recant his heresy, and the Inquisition would set them free, except for recidivists.

3/31/2016 8:42:00 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

kb2222
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
I believe in forgiving sinners who repent. So did the various Inquisitions---all one had to do with as recant his heresy, and the Inquisition would set them free, except for recidivists.

You are morally corrupt and spiritually insane. Jesus didn't teach His followers to torture and burn at the stake those who wouldn't bow down to church dictates or those who the church considered witches. You are truly depraved.

3/31/2016 8:47:08 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

ludlowlowell
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Actually, Jesus does much worse than any Inquisition. Jesus sends thousands of unrepentant sinners to Hell forever every day.

3/31/2016 8:54:21 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,399)
Kingman, AZ
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[]Quote from ludlowlowell:[/][]Actually, Jesus does much worse than any Inquisition. Jesus sends thousands of unrepentant sinners to Hell forever every day.[/]

==========================================

You blaspheme God because you don't know Him and you don't love Him.

"If a man love me, he will keep my words."(John 14:23)
"He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings." (John 14:24)

3/31/2016 9:33:27 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

followjesusonly
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[]Quote from ludlowlowell:[/][]I believe in forgiving sinners who repent. So did the various Inquisitions---all one had to do with as recant his heresy, and the Inquisition would set them free, except for recidivists.[/]

==================================================

There is no doubt in my mind that you would have been there turning the screws and starting the bonfires to burn "heretics" at the stake whose only crime was to believe things that your church didn't approve of.

4/1/2016 6:23:35 AM Who does Jesus forgive?  

ludlowlowell
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Unrepentant heretics will not inherit eternal life. (Some heretics who did not know any better might.)

And you forget that Protestants did the same kinds of things to Catholics during this same period. Any Protestant who brings up the subject of the Inquisition is a hypocrite.

4/1/2016 11:38:50 AM Who does Jesus forgive?  

kb2222
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
Unrepentant heretics will not inherit eternal life. (Some heretics who did not know any better might.)

And you forget that Protestants did the same kinds of things to Catholics during this same period. Any Protestant who brings up the subject of the Inquisition is a hypocrite.

You are the unrepentant heretic to the teachings of Jesus who quite possibly will not inherit eternal life.

4/1/2016 1:37:13 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

ludlowlowell
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How do my words conflict with Jesus' words (what Jesus actually said, not what somebody wishes Jesus said, or what Mohammed, Luther, Calvin, Arius, or Sadler said He said)?

4/1/2016 2:40:17 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,399)
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
Unrepentant heretics will not inherit eternal life. (Some heretics who did not know any better might.)


You should stop using the word "heretic." It only had meaning when your church was in control. In the multi religious world we live in now, it has no meaning and it shows up your ignorance of reality.

4/1/2016 2:42:36 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,399)
Kingman, AZ
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
How do my words conflict with Jesus' words (what Jesus actually said, not what somebody wishes Jesus said, or what Mohammed, Luther, Calvin, Arius, or Sadler said He said)?


Jesus said: "Call no man your father upon the earth: "for one is your Father, which is in heaven." (Matthew 23:9)

And you say, Jesus' words are not to be taken literally.

Thus, your words conflict with Jesus. And that's not the only case where you argue with Jesus.

4/1/2016 3:18:59 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

ludlowlowell
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Panama City, FL
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But what if Jesus' words weren't meant to be taken literally here? What of He only meant not to give any loyalty to any father figure or authority figure above what we give to God?

Jesus also said "call no MAN rabbi" and "if your right eye offend thee, pluck it out", but FJO doesn't harp on these statements. Can you say, double standard?

4/1/2016 3:45:53 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

followjesusonly
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
But what if Jesus' words weren't meant to be taken literally here?


We can do the "what if" game all day long.

You can either obey Jesus or you can say, what if?, and use that as an excuse to disobey Him. Is that your latest excuse? "What if Jesus didn't mean what He said?" Is that your latest sophistry?

What if there is no God?

What if Jesus was just a man?

What if the Muslims are right?

What if the Jews are right?

What if the pope is a homosexual?

What if, what if, what if, what if, what if...?



4/6/2016 10:46:01 AM Who does Jesus forgive?  

ludlowlowell
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If you called your father "Dad", or allow your children to call you that, you are a hypocrite.

4/6/2016 2:36:26 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,399)
Kingman, AZ
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
If you called your father "Dad", or allow your children to call you that, you are a hypocrite.


Jesus tells you to call no man "Father," not me. Your argument is with God, not with me. And of course Jesus never says anything about calling or not calling, anyone "Dad." Your argument on that point is extremely childish. As you descent farther into unreality I expect your arguments will become more childish and more nonsensical.

4/6/2016 2:42:51 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

followjesusonly
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*


4/7/2016 7:48:12 AM Who does Jesus forgive?  

ludlowlowell
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But I asked you. Do you have an answer? Why are you at least according to your interpretation, disobeying God?

4/7/2016 7:51:03 AM Who does Jesus forgive?  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,616)
Panama City, FL
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Jesus: Why do you call me Lord, Lord, and do not do the things that I say?

FJO: Because I follow my racist eugenicist pantheistic hero William Sadler instead of Jesus.

4/7/2016 10:58:02 AM Who does Jesus forgive?  

kb2222
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You are so corrupt you just can't stop lying. Satan has you, Ludlow.

4/7/2016 2:54:31 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,399)
Kingman, AZ
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Quote from kb2222:
You are so corrupt you just can't stop lying. Satan has you, Ludlow.


Ludlow is descending into unreality.

4/7/2016 4:11:11 PM Who does Jesus forgive?  
irishrose0906
Dublin, OH
51, joined Mar. 2013


Quote from ludlowlowell:
But what if Jesus' words weren't meant to be taken literally here? What of He only meant not to give any loyalty to any father figure or authority figure above what we give to God?

Jesus also said "call no MAN rabbi" and "if your right eye offend thee, pluck it out", but FJO doesn't harp on these statements. Can you say, double standard?


Knowing what you know of Jesus and his teachings do you think he would lie to you?
Do you think he would tell you the kingdom of heaven is within you if it wasn't? He ask you to call NO man Father, not a Rabbi, nor a priest, not any man. Yes he doesn't want you to give them any authority over your true Father. But when you call them Father you do honor them, and do give them authority over you. Jesus said the Kingdom of heaven is within you, and God resides in Heaven, so a spark of God was broken and given to each of us, is within each of us. And when we come together we are the body of God. The church is not the body of God.