ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?

4/13/2016 3:17:55 AM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism? April 10, 2016 by Raymond Ibrahim A lie conceals the truth. And ugly but hidden truths never have a chance of being acknowledged, addressed, and ultimately ameliorated. Because of this simple truism, one of the greatest lies of our age—that violence committed in the name of Islam has nothing to do with Islam—has made an intrinsically weak Islam the scourge of the modern world, with no signs of relief on the horizon. One of the latest manifestations of this lie took place in Pakistan. On Easter Sunday, March 27, a suicide bombing took place near the children rides of a public park, where Christians were congregated and celebrating the resurrection of their Lord. At least 74 people—mostly Christian women and children—were killed and nearly 400 injured. “There was human flesh on the walls of our house,” recalled a witness. Who—or what—was responsible for this assault? “We claim responsibility for the attack on Christians as they were celebrating Easter,” said Jamaatul Ahraar, a splinter group of the Taliban. In a media statement, the group said it had “deliberately targeted the Christian community,” adding that “we had been waiting for this occasion.” The Taliban and its affiliates are not alone. Click here, here, here, here, and here, for numerous examples of similarly lethal attacks on Christians celebrating Christmas or Easter by other Islamic groups and individuals around the world who also “had been waiting for this occasion.” Even “the terror cell that struck in Brussels [last month, killing 34] was planning to massacre worshippers at Easter church services across Europe, including Britain, intelligence chiefs believe.” Still, connecting the dots and understanding what binds all Islamic terrorist groups is a big no-no for the so-called mainstream media. The problem, we will be told, is the “Taliban,” which “has nothing to do with Islam.” Rather, it’s a finite, temporal, localized problem: defeat it, and the problem vanishes. Meanwhile, about 5,000 miles west of Taliban territory, in Nigeria, Christians are also under attack. Indeed, according to a new report, since 2000, some 12,000 Christians have been slaughtered for their faith and 13,000 churches destroyed. Just last month, over 500 Christians were butchered. According to the official narrative, something called “Boko Haram” is responsible. This is another group that defines itself exclusively according to Islam; another group that habitually bombs churches during Christmas and Easter; and another group that, we are told, “has nothing to do with Islam,” but rather is a finite, temporal, localized problem: defeat it, and the problem vanishes. About 5,000 miles west of Nigeria, in the U.S., Americans were told that something called “al-Qaeda” attacked and killed 3,000 of their countrymen on 9/11; defeating that finite group would cease the terror. Its leader, Osama bin Laden, was killed, and victory loudly proclaimed—except that an even more savage manifestation, this time called the “Islamic State” (it too “has nothing to do with Islam”) came on the scene and has gone further than al-Qaeda could’ve ever dreamed, in great part thanks to the Obama administration. It gets worse. The problem is not only that the media and decision-makers refuse to connect the dots and insist on treating each of the aforementioned groups as disparate, finite groups with different motivations—none of which has to do with Islam. The problem is that regular Muslims who are not called “Taliban,” “Boko Haram,” “al-Qaeda,” “ISIS,” ad infinitum commit similar acts, and much more frequently, though this is rarely ever mentioned by the MSM. Thus, although the “Taliban” was behind the recent Easter Day massacre, it is everyday Muslims who discriminate against, persecute, enslave, rape and sometimes murder Christians every day in Pakistan (click here for a typical month); it was everyday Muslims who burned a young Christian couple alive due to unsubstantiated rumors that they had insulted Muhammad. Those who slaughtered 500 Christians last month in Nigeria were not “Boko Haram” but rather un-affiliated (but Muslim) herdsmen. Likewise, “Northern Muslim political and religious elite are also major actors of targeted violence towards the Christian minority.” Although ISIS claimed the Brussels attack, it is everyday Muslims who ban, burn, bomb, and urinate on Christian churches, and who, as in Pakistan and other Muslim majority nations, target non-Muslim European women for rape on the basis that they are subhuman “infidels.” This is the real issue. While the media may name the terrorist groups responsible for especially spectacular attacks—followed by the customary admonitions that they “have nothing to do with Islam”—few dare acknowledge that Muslims in general engage in similar acts of violence and intolerance against non-Muslims. According to a recent study, Muslims —of all races, nationalities, languages, and socio-political and economic circumstances, hardly just “terror groups”—are responsible for persecuting Christians in 41 of the 50 worst nations to be Christian in. These statistics are consistent with a recent Pew poll finding that, in 11 countries alone, at least 63 million and as many as 287 million Muslims support ISIS. Similarly, 81% of respondents to a recent Al Jazeera poll supported the Islamic State. In sum, what “extremist” “terrorist” and “militant” groups (that “have nothing to do with Islam”) are doing is but the tip of the iceberg of what Muslims are doing all around the world. (See “Muslim Persecution of Christians,” reports which I’ve been compiling every month since July 2011 and witness the nonstop discrimination, persecution, and carnage committed by “everyday” Muslims against Christians. Each monthly report contains dozens of atrocities, any of which if committed by Christians against Muslims would receive 24/7 blanket coverage.) Media aren’t just covering up for Islam by pretending that the spectacular attacks committed by Islamic groups on non-Muslims “have nothing to do with Islam.” They are covering up for Islam by failing to report the everyday persecution non-Muslims experience at the hands of everyday Muslims—Muslim individuals, Muslim mobs, Muslim police, and Muslim governments (including America’s closest “friends and allies”)—not just Muslim “terrorists.” Because of these entrenched lies, the world must continue to suffer from Islamic terror. Not only have these lies allowed countless innocents to be persecuted into oblivion in the Muslim world, but they have allowed the same persecution to enter America and Europe, most recently via mass immigration. The fact remains: an ugly truth must first be acknowledged before it can be remedied. It may be hard to acknowledge an ugly truth—that Islam, not “radical Islam,” promotes hate for and violence against non-Muslims—but anything less will just continue to feed the lie, that is, continue to feed the jihad and terror. Meet singles at DateHookup.dating, we're 100% free! Join now!
4/13/2016 11:48:02 AM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	ISIS or Islam, which breeds terrorism? That's like asking, the Ku Klux Klan or the Confederacy---which one breeds racism? The one is the outgrowth of the other.
4/13/2016 1:07:49 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
sail_dancer Saint Petersburg, FL 68, joined Apr. 2010 online now!	Quote from ludlowlowell: ISIS or Islam, which breeds terrorism? That's like asking, the Ku Klux Klan or the Confederacy---which one breeds racism? The one is the outgrowth of the other. Yes! The KKK is an outgrowth of the RCC and other christian cults. Peace
4/13/2016 7:48:53 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	You don't know much history of the Ku Klux Klan, do you Sail? The Ku Klux Klan was just as anti-Cathokic and anti-Jewish as they were anti-black. In 1938, in my home town the KKK burned down a Catholic Church. "I'd rather be a Klansman In robes of snowy white, Than be a Roman Catholic, In robes as black as night. For a Klansman is an American, And America is his home, But a Catholic owes allegiance To the Dago Pope of Rome." --a little ditty popular among Michigan klansmen in the 1920s, as quoted in "A History of the Popes" by Charles Coulombe, page 2
4/14/2016 9:21:48 AM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	The only true defeat of Islamic terrorism will come when it is rejected by Muslims. violence will only begat further generations of violence. Declaring war on Islam will result in the final war of humanity and will destroy all of us. If you want to defeat Isis and the like you must befriend and convince Muslims everywhere to reject violence by supporting and cultivating mutually beneficial relationships with them. The alternatives simply expand the conflict. " Islam, not “radical Islam,” promotes hate for and violence against non-Muslims—but anything less will just continue to feed the lie, that is, continue to feed the jihad and terror." Any religious doctrine can be corrupted to manipulate the poor and ignorant. Poverty and ignorance are the breeding ground for radical terror. In the meantime we Americans enrich the top 3% of our elite to the accumulation of obscene amounts of wealth and power. The US rich enjoy enmity with Islam. It creates lot's of opportunities for war profit and diverts attention from the subversion of our own democracy.
4/14/2016 11:29:50 AM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	I do hold out hope that a more moderate branch of Islam might emerge, one that casts off the Quran's teachings about violence.
4/14/2016 12:25:51 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	Mohamed was born into a time of war, and thrust into the role of a war leader. Of course the book about his life is going to have references to violence in it. Life is conflict. The greatest personal growth that ever happens is the result of perseverance against some form of oppression. Learning to do the right thing regardless of circumstance or temptation. Jihad. The great battle with the world that ends in self discovery.
4/14/2016 1:51:59 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	Mohammed lived in a time of war, all right---and he started most of them. Why don't he preach, love, peace, and forgiveness, like Jesus did?
4/14/2016 2:25:01 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 73, joined May. 2012	Quote from ludlowlowell: Mohammed lived in a time of war, all right---and he started most of them. Why don't he preach, love, peace, and forgiveness, like Jesus did? Jesus preached this too, why don't you obey Him? Why do you refuse to obey Him? "Call no man your father upon the earth: "for one is your Father, which is in heaven." (Matthew 23:9) "Why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46) “Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.” (Mark 7:9) "If a man love me, he will keep my words."(John 14:23) "He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings." (John 14:24) And the word which you have heard, is not mine; but the Father's who sent me." (John 14:24)
4/14/2016 4:00:37 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	I agree, FJO, that the words of Jesus are beautiful, and very few people live up to them in their entirety. I'll admit I don't. Keeping Jesus' words in their entirety is difficult, but that is what we should strive for.
4/14/2016 6:16:31 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 73, joined May. 2012	[]Quote from ludlowlowell:[/][]I agree, FJO, that the words of Jesus are beautiful, and very few people live up to them in their entirety. I'll admit I don't. Keeping Jesus' words in their entirety is difficult, but that is what we should strive for.[/] ========================================================== Keeping these words of Jesus is as easy as pie: "Call no man your father upon the earth: "for one is your Father, which is in heaven." (Matthew 23:9) It's just one simple act of obedience.
4/14/2016 8:58:21 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	Quote from ludlowlowell: Mohammed lived in a time of war, all right---and he started most of them. Why don't he preach, love, peace, and forgiveness, like Jesus did? The teachings of some modern Muslims, based on the Quran: "Children of any religion who have true faith must realize that God is the only One who knows all of everything. Therefore, only God can judge whether a person has faith, certitude, and determination or not and whether a person lives with that purity that can be called Islam or not. No one else can give that judgment. Do not wave your religion like a banner and go out to capture others. Only one kind of war is permissible in the eyes of God: the war you wage within yourself to defeat the demonic forces of lust, anger, jealousy, desire for revenge, and other evil feelings and attributes that may exist within your heart. God has sent each of the prophets as witnesses to the grace of God and as supports to help us in this inner war. This is the reason for the Qur'an. It is to help the true Muslim fight this inner battle and win victory over his own base desire's that God sent the Messenger with the Qur'an. We must use the wisdom contained within the Qur'an to spank our own naughty minds and defeat our own compulsive desires. If we do that, what is called Islam will taste like honey. What we do now by battling in the world and calling it Islam tastes bitter and covers the light of the Qur'an in darkness. The light of Islam should reveal the essence of God in every life. If we see that essence, then we will live in unity; we will eat from the same plate; we will live as one family whether some are in a church, some are in a mosque, or some are in their homes. The beggar and the king will be able to pray together. We will discover our own faults, discard our own anger, and embrace one another with love. That is what the Qur'an says. That is why we cannot tell lies, indulge in treachery, or threaten to kill other lives and claim that it is being done in the name of Islam. " http://www.bmf.org/iswp/true-islam.html
4/14/2016 9:49:08 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	The problem with using this "modern muslim" theory, is that nobody pays any attention to it. Especially muslims. Islam is already documented, Now I can agree with changing the religion, it needs it, but change the name also, so people don't get it confused with the Islam that already exists.
4/15/2016 5:09:03 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	Quote from Yasureoktoo: The problem with using this "modern muslim" theory, is that nobody pays any attention to it. Especially muslims. Islam is already documented, Now I can agree with changing the religion, it needs it, but change the name also, so people don't get it confused with the Islam that already exists. Balony
4/15/2016 5:13:51 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	LOLOL Simple answers, from the simple mind.
4/16/2016 1:27:27 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	From Wiki: "According to Carl W. Ernst, devotion to the Islamic prophet Muhammad is an exceptionally strong practice within Sufism.[46] Sufis have historically revered Muhammad as the prime personality of spiritual greatness. The Sufi poet, Saadi Shirazi stated, "He who chooses a path contrary to that of the prophet [Muhammad], shall never reach the destination. O Saadi, do not think that one can treat that way of purity except in the wake of the chosen one [Muhammad]."[47] Rumi attributes his self-control and abstinence from worldly desires as qualities attained by him through the guidance of Muhammad. Rumi states, "I "sewed" my two eyes shut from [desires for] this world and the next – this I learned from Muhammad."[48] Ibn Arabi regards Muhammad as the greatest man ever and states "Muhammad's wisdom is uniqueness (fardiya) because he is the most perfect existent creature of this human species. For this reason, the command began with him and was sealed with him. He was a Prophet while Adam was between water and clay, and his elemental structure is the Seal of the Prophets."[49] Fariduddin Attar claimed that he praised Muhammad in such a manner that was not done before by any poet, in his book the Ilahi-nama.[50] Fariduddin Attar stated "Muhammad is the exemplar to both worlds, the guide of the descendants of Adam. He is the sun of creation, the moon of the celestial spheres, the all-seeing eye...The seven heavens and the eight gardens of paradise were created for him, he is both the eye and the light in the light of our eyes."[51] Sufis have historically stressed the importance of Muhammad's perfection and his ability to intercede. The persona of Muhammad has historically been and remains an integral and critical aspect of Sufi belief and practice.[46] The Sufi, Bayazid Bastami is recorded to have been so devoted to the Sunnah of Muhammad, that he refused to eat a watermelon due to the fact that he could not establish that Muhammad ever ate one.[52]" Sufism is as old as Islam itself. "modern Islam"??????
4/16/2016 1:38:53 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	My point is this. There a Muslim sects that are devoted to Mohamed, and the fruit of their works, preachings, teachings, and all evidence of their lives are of exemplary human beings. Therefore the proposition that Islam is fundamentally evil is a fallacy. We find truly spiritual community in the Sufi, for whom the Quran is a foundation. Muslim radicals do not represent Islam.
4/16/2016 1:41:36 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	What you are failing to accept, living in your own world, is that Sufi is not Islam, sufi is Zoestranism. Some of Islam's origins are plagiarized from there. It was adopted into it's own Islamic sect long after the fact. Sufi had to eliminate Muhammed from their religion, the muhammed that already existed, The documented muhammed, and replace him with another straight from the immaginations of the writers. A totally fabricated person, that they could manipulate into Zoestranism, and keep their heads.
4/16/2016 2:12:36 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	More paranoid Baloney
4/16/2016 2:47:23 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	LOLOL OK, Please tell me where the sufi get their information about muhammed. And do give me some bullshit that someone 500 years later wrote a story. I want something from the time period. BTW, If you have something from the time period, you are the only person on planet earth to have it, so it is worth a lot of money.
4/16/2016 2:54:27 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	And BTW, these supposed companions are long dead, and left nothing in writing, nor did their kids. Wake up, there was no Islam yet, there was a warlord, who after he died, the group split into two. They weren't interested in religion, they were interested in rob, rape, and kill. The religion would form over the next 300 years, with lots of invented previous people and happenings.
4/28/2016 5:07:41 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	Quote from asanb: My point is this. There a Muslim sects that are devoted to Mohamed, and the fruit of their works, preachings, teachings, and all evidence of their lives are of exemplary human beings. Therefore the proposition that Islam is fundamentally evil is a fallacy. We find truly spiritual community in the Sufi, for whom the Quran is a foundation. Muslim radicals do not represent Islam. No, unfortunately all Muslim sects support violence in the name of Islam, as commanded by their "prophet" Muhammed. Isn't the Saudi Royal family Sufi? Don't they contribute to terrorist organizations? In America we are accustomed to associating religion with peace, because our two main religions, Christianity and Judaism, espouse peace. We need to wake up to the fact that Islam is not the peace-loving religion Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Confucianism, and Zoroasterism are. Islam is more like Shinto, a warlike religion.
4/28/2016 5:18:10 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	Quote from asanb: My point is this. There a Muslim sects that are devoted to Mohamed, and the fruit of their works, preachings, teachings, and all evidence of their lives are of exemplary human beings. Therefore the proposition that Islam is fundamentally evil is a fallacy. We find truly spiritual community in the Sufi, for whom the Quran is a foundation. Muslim radicals do not represent Islam. Fail. They need to invent another Muhammed, and they do. The one written about is a POS. Muslim radicals represent muhammed, to the letter. He was a terrorist, murderer, thief, sexual pervert.
4/28/2016 7:32:05 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	Quote from ludlowlowell: No, unfortunately all Muslim sects support violence in the name of Islam, as commanded by their "prophet" Muhammed. Isn't the Saudi Royal family Sufi? Don't they contribute to terrorist organizations? In America we are accustomed to associating religion with peace, because our two main religions, Christianity and Judaism, espouse peace. We need to wake up to the fact that Islam is not the peace-loving religion Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Confucianism, and Zoroasterism are. Islam is more like Shinto, a warlike religion. Um, Lud, The House of Saud isn't Sufi If you want to get a grip on the last 50 years of Saudi history, and the recent rejection of Wahhabism, Try this article from Radio Free Europe. http://www.rferl.org/content/Saudi_Arabia_Awakens_To_The_Dangers_Of_Wahhabism/2017767.html Ludlow You are so susceptible to this anti Islam crap because you allow yourself to be ignorant. Don't just swallow what they spoon feed you. Do a little research yourself and expand your mind. These issues have history, conflicting parties and forces, and different perspectives.
4/28/2016 7:46:28 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	Over the past three centuries, the world has witnessed the rise of a new faith, Wahhabism, which sought from the start to cloak itself in the mantle of Islam, a religion that had established itself across the world during the previous millennium. Converts to Wahhabism have destroyed sites relating to the heroes of the early years of Islam and have sought to extinguish the culture of tolerance and knowledge that gave the world so many intellectual riches. ...... .......... Mindspace is at the core of the struggle now taking place within the Muslim world. Over that period, many Muslim-majority countries fell under the sway of external powers (several for the first time) and even today remain far behind others in the spread of the knowledge economy. This is at least in part the consequence of the spread of Wahhabism within the Muslim community, especially since the 1980s, when worldwide funding for it increased substantially, making Wahhabism (and later Khomeinism) a profitable business for many. Afghanistan has been portrayed by the Wahhabis as a great victory. They forget to mention that the success of the Afghan resistance to the 1979 Soviet invasion was largely due to money, training, and weapons provided by the West and the involvement of moderate Afghans who provided information and helped the resistance fighters in many ways. Unfortunately, once Soviet troops left Afghanistan, the Wahhabis soon began killing others, thereby ensuring -- with a lot of help from outside -- their rise to power in 1996. The Wahhabi Taliban are a group of fanatics who have nothing in common with the age-old Muslim ethos of peace and tolerance or with the ancient Pashtun tradition of chivalry and hospitality. Why are Wahhabism and Khomeinism ideological twins? Because Khomeinism shares with Wahhabism the same intolerance for knowledge that Abdal Wahhab had and the same hatred of all those who refuse to bow before the Wahabbist-Khomeinists. Encouraged by the advent to power in Iran in 1979 of Grand Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, Wahhabists in other Middle Eastern countries increased the volume of their rhetoric and began demanding monetary tribute as the price for their support for some ruling elites in the region. http://www.rferl.org/content/WahabbismKhomeinism_Is_The_Enemy_Of_Islam/1509645.html
4/28/2016 7:52:56 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	Mu?ammad ibn ?Abd al-Wahhab, (born 1703, ?Uyaynah, Arabia [now in Saudi Arabia]—died 1792, Ad-Dir?iyah) theologian and founder of the Wahhabi movement, which attempted a return to the “true” principles of Islam. Having completed his formal education in the holy city of Medina, in Arabia, ?Abd al-Wahhab lived abroad for many years. He taught for four years in Basra, Iraq, and in Baghdad he married an affluent woman whose property he inherited when she died. In 1736, in Iran, he began to teach against what he considered to be the extreme ideas of various exponents of Sufi doctrines. On returning to his native city, he wrote the Kitab at-taw?id (“Book of Unity”), which is the main text for Wahhabi doctrines. His followers call themselves al-Muwa??idun, or “Unitarians”; the term Wahhabi is generally used by non-Muslims and opponents. ?Abd al-Wahhab’s teachings have been characterized as puritanical and traditional, representing the early era of the Islamic religion. He made a clear stand against all innovations (bid?ah) in Islamic faith because he believed them to be reprehensible, insisting that the original grandeur of Islam could be regained if the Islamic community would return to the principles enunciated by the Prophet Muhammad. Wahhabi doctrines, therefore, do not allow for an intermediary between the faithful and Allah and condemn any such practice as polytheism. The decoration of mosques, the cult of saints, and even the smoking of tobacco were condemned. When the preaching of these doctrines led to controversy, ?Abd al-Wahhab was expelled from ?Uyaynah in 1744. He then settled in Ad-Dir?iyah, capital of Ibn Sa?ud, a ruler of the Najd (now in Saudi Arabia). http://www.britannica.com/biography/Muhammad-ibn-Abd-al-Wahhab
4/28/2016 9:09:02 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	Quote from asanb: More paranoid Baloney Don't give me that bullshit, I asked you where they got their information about muhammed.
4/28/2016 9:14:44 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	Peace-loving religions of the world: Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Zoroasterism. War-loving religions of the world: Islam, Shinto. Asanb, had he lived in 1941: oh, those polite peace-loving loving Japanese! They would never attack us! Shinto aggression? That's just paranoid baloney.
4/28/2016 9:18:21 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	Quote from Yasureoktoo: What you are failing to accept, living in your own world, is that Sufi is not Islam, sufi is Zoestranism. Some of Islam's origins are plagiarized from there. It was adopted into it's own Islamic sect long after the fact. Sufi had to eliminate Muhammed from their religion, the muhammed that already existed, The documented muhammed, and replace him with another straight from the immaginations of the writers. A totally fabricated person, that they could manipulate into Zoestranism, and keep their heads. And what is your source for this particular nonsensical rant? Sufi is Zoestranism? Prove that one. You REALLY Haven't a clue about the Sufi, what they represent, or anything of the History. You just make shit up.
4/28/2016 9:34:36 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	Although the scriptures were so central to ibn Wahhab’s ideology, by insisting that his version of Islam alone had validity, he distorted the Quranic message in the most violent way. The Quran firmly states that “There must be no coercion in matters of faith” – Quran 2:256. It rules that Muslims must believe in the revelations of all the great prophets (3:84) and that religious pluralism was God’s will (5:48). Until Wahhabism came knocking, Muslims remained traditionally wary of takfir, the practice of declaring a fellow Muslim to be an unbeliever (kafir). Hitherto Sufism, which had developed an outstanding appreciation of other faith traditions, had been the most popular form of Islam and had played an important role in both social and religious life. “Do not praise your own faith so exclusively that you disbelieve all the rest,” urged the great mystic Ibn al-Arabi (d.1240). “God the omniscient and omnipresent cannot be confined to any one creed.” It was common for a Sufi to claim that he was a neither a Jew nor a Christian, nor even a Muslim, because once you glimpsed the divine, you left these man-made distinctions behind. After ibn Wahhab’s death, Wahhabism became more violent, an instrument of state terror. As Al Saud sought to establish an independent kingdom, Abd al-Aziz Ibn Muhammad, Ibn Saud’s son and successor, used takfir to justify the wholesale slaughter of resistant populations. In 1801, his army sacked the holy Shia city of Karbala in what is now Iraq, plundered the tomb of Imam Hussain, and slaughtered thousands of Shias, including women and children. A few years later, in 1803, in fear and panic, the holy city of Mecca surrendered to the Saudi leader, wary of that his army would do to the population.
4/28/2016 9:37:38 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	Mostly Zoroastrianism lives on in its indirect influences. Any moral element in Judaism sources from Zoroastrianism. Scholars have found that the Sermon of the Mount came from materials preached by Zoroastrian Preachers and Monks – the Sufis. The Sufi Religious Orders are survivals from Zoroastrianism. Now, most Sufis will say they are Muslim, but this is only because they mostly live in Islamic Regions and we all know how that goes. When you live in Muslimville you say you are Muslim or you die. Also, when we look at the Muslim History of persecuting the Sufi Religious Orders we can see that while the Sufis might say they are Muslim, the Muslims themselves rather deny it from their own side of the equation – a Sufi will insist he himself is a Muslim, but a Muslim will say that a Sufi is, well, a Sufi. Besides, History shows us that the Sufi Religious Orders predate Mohamed. If they were around before Islam, then they’re not Islamic, are they?
4/28/2016 10:28:54 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	So, let's repost something from earlier..... Sufism represents the inward-looking, mystical dimension of Islam. Often thought erroneously to be its own sect or denomination – such as Sunni Islam – Sufism is better understood as an approach that mixes mainstream religious observances, such as prescribed daily prayers, with a range of supplementary spiritual practices, such as the ritual chanting of God’s attributes (zhikr) or the veneration of saints. Sufism dates back almost to the time of the Prophet Muhammad, and it has been present in Muslim societies for more than 12 centuries. Historically, Sufis were organized into a number of brotherhoods or mystical orders (tariqat, literally “paths”), each with its own religious rites, saintly lineage and leadership structure. The head of each order, generally a hereditary position known as the shaykh or pir, represented a spiritual genealogy tracing back to the prophet. The theological orientation of Sufism – with its inward focus on spirituality – is such that its followers tend to shy away from more political forms of Islam. Historically, however, Sufi orders have not always been entirely apolitical. Some Sufi leaders, especially in the Muslim world, have allied themselves with political forces and, in some instances, even with militant causes. Many Sufi orders place a great deal of emphasis on shari’a (Islamic) law and the strict observance of orthodox requirements in the areas of worship and social affairs. Moreover, given the pre-eminent position of the shaykh or leader, the orders can be rather authoritarian and rigidly hierarchical. For example, the most devoted followers of an order (known as murids) are expected to follow the leader’s directives without question. Snapshot: Sufi Orders Origin Sufism has been present in Muslim societies for more than 12 centuries. Historically, Sufis were organized into a number of brotherhoods or mystical orders, and many Muslim immigrants took their Sufi order affiliations with them to Europe. Other Sufi orders have been present in the region since the Middle Ages. Stated Purpose/Goals Sufism is the inward-looking, mystical dimension of Islam, emphasizing personal and emotional religious experiences. The theological orientation of Sufism, with its inward focus on spirituality, is such that its followers generally tend to shy away from more politicized forms of Islam. Method/Activities Sufism mixes mainstream religious observances with a range of supplementary spiritual practices. Some of the most popular and well-known examples of Sufi practices are the ritual chanting of God’s attributes (zhikr) and dancing, such as that performed by the whirling dervishes in Turkey. Representative Organizations/Key Figures The Naqshbandi order has a global following and is found throughout Europe; it is led by Nazim al-Qubrusi from his base in Cyprus. The Qadiri order has a broad following in Europe; Sorbonne-trained anthropologist Fouzi Skali oversees a sub-branch of the order in France. The emphasis on personal and emotional religious experiences in Sufism made it enormously popular among the masses and led to new forms of religious expression, including singing and dancing (the whirling dervishes of Turkey are a well-known example). Sufism’s popular appeal ultimately helped Islam spread across Africa, Asia and Europe. Today, many well-known Sufi orders – such as the Naqshbandis and Qadiris – enjoy a substantial global following. These brotherhoods have become thoroughly integrated into the social structure of many Muslim societies, and it is therefore not surprising that when Muslim immigrants from Asia, Africa and the Middle East began arriving in Europe in significant numbers in the 1960s, many brought their Sufi order affiliations with them" http://www.pewforum.org/2010/09/15/muslim-networks-and-movements-in-western-europe-sufi-orders/
4/28/2016 10:38:00 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	Nice story, I don't buy it. I like a common sense approach. Zoestranism was a popular religion per Islam, I can see how they would alter it to keep their heads.
4/29/2016 6:18:42 AM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	Quote from Yasureoktoo: Nice story, I don't buy it. I like a common sense approach. Zoestranism was a popular religion per Islam, I can see how they would alter it to keep their heads. once again basing the narrative on your conveniently biased opinion rather than the facts. But most of your statements are just as accurate. Opinions tailored to support your story.
4/29/2016 7:55:45 AM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	Quote from asanb: once again basing the narrative on your conveniently biased opinion rather than the facts. But most of your statements are just as accurate. Opinions tailored to support your story. When I look at something like this I prefer the documented version. As much as you hate Spencer, he has a reputation to maintain, and he is not going to let the muslims have a chance to say. See....You were wrong.
4/29/2016 7:57:33 AM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	And Zoestranism, though I am not real familiar with is the source for Sufi. I am sure there have been lots of changes in the past 1000 years.
4/29/2016 11:28:54 AM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	Quote from Yasureoktoo: When I look at something like this I prefer the documented version. As much as you hate Spencer, he has a reputation to maintain, and he is not going to let the muslims have a chance to say. See....You were wrong. So you would argue that the BBC and encyclopedia britanica and the Pew trust are wrong and Spencer is right. You have been led down the path and would lead others to the same pit
4/29/2016 3:31:15 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	Quote from asanb: So you would argue that the BBC and encyclopedia britanica and the Pew trust are wrong and Spencer is right. You have been led down the path and would lead others to the same pit You would have to quote an incident. That is not a straight across the board answer. I have noticed that regarding Islam, virtually all of the trusted sources we always depended on, are wrong.
4/29/2016 8:16:30 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	Quote from Yasureoktoo: You would have to quote an incident. That is not a straight across the board answer. I have noticed that regarding Islam, virtually all of the trusted sources we always depended on, are wrong. I quoted those sources in reference to the history of the Sufi, and you insist that the History is very different. You must, I guess, live in your own world.
4/29/2016 8:46:09 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	Quote from asanb: I quoted those sources in reference to the history of the Sufi, and you insist that the History is very different. You must, I guess, live in your own world. Yes, unfortunately the real world is quite a bit different than yours. Sufi predates muhammed, of course Islam states that Islam is thousands of years older than it really is.
4/29/2016 9:44:37 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 73, joined May. 2012	Quote from Yasureoktoo: And Zoestranism, though I am not real familiar with is the source for Sufi. I am sure there have been lots of changes in the past 1000 years. Pardon me, I haven't been following this, but are you talking about Zoroastrianism? I'm sure it has nothing to do with Islam or Sufism. Zoroastrianism From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Zoroastrianism,[n 1] or more natively Mazdayasna,[1] is one of the world's oldest religions, "combining a cosmogonic dualism and eschatological monotheism in a manner unique... among the major religions of the world."[2] Ascribed to the teachings of the Iranian Prophet Zoroaster (or Zarathustra),[3] he exalted their deity of wisdom, Ahura Mazda, as its Supreme Being.[4] Leading characteristics, such as messianism, heaven and hell, and free will influenced other religious systems, including Second Temple Judaism, Gnosticism, Christianity, and Islam.[5] With possible roots dating back to the second millennium BCE, Zoroastrianism enters recorded history in the 5th-century BCE,[4] and including a Mithraic Median prototype and Zurvanist Sassanid successor it served as the state religion of the pre-Islamic Iranian empires from around 600 BCE to 650 CE. Zoroastrianism was suppressed from the 7th century onwards following the Muslim conquest of Persia.[6] Recent estimates place the current number of Zoroastrians at around 2.6 million, with most living in India and Iran.[7][8][n 2] Besides the Zoroastrian diaspora, the older Mithraic faith Yazdânism is still practised amongst the Kurds.[n 3] The religious philosophy of Zoroaster divided the early Iranian gods.[9] The most important texts of the religion are those of the Avesta.[10] In Zoroastrianism, the creator Ahura Mazda, through the Spenta Mainyu (Good Spirit, "Bounteous Immortals")[11] is an all-good "father" of Asha (Truth, “order, justice,")[12][13] in opposition to Druj (“falsehood, deceit”)[14][15] and no evil originates from "him".[16] "He" and his works are evident to humanity through the six primary Amesha Spentas[17] and the host of other Yazatas, through whom worship of Mazda is ultimately directed. Spenta Mainyu adjoined unto "truth"[18] oppose the Spirit's opposite,[19][20] Angra Mainyu and its forces born of Ak?m Manah (“evil thinking”).[21] Zoroastrianism has no major theological divisions, though it is not uniform; modern-era influences having a significant impact on individual and local beliefs, practices, values and vocabulary, sometimes merging with tradition and in other cases displacing it.[22] In Zoroastrianism, the purpose in life is to "be among those who renew the world...to make the world progress towards perfection". Its basic maxims include:
4/29/2016 10:37:39 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	Quote from followjesusonly: Pardon me, I haven't been following this, but are you talking about Zoroastrianism? I'm sure it has nothing to do with Islam or Sufism. : Zoroastrianism was the prevailing religion, especially around Iran and even Bagdad with the coming rule of law being a new religion, Islam. Sufi is the offshoot that allowed you to keep your head, and your old religion. Throughout history, religions are combined, with aspects of both, instead of cutting off cold turkey. Sufi however, had to remove muhammed, from theirs and invent an entirely new character.
4/29/2016 10:39:11 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	In most of the muslim world, being sufi is a death sentence.
4/30/2016 6:42:16 AM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	Quote from Yasureoktoo: In most of the muslim world, being sufi is a death sentence. Source?
4/30/2016 11:05:30 AM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	You have no memory, I suggest you actually read and absorb posts. You are so obsessed with your copy/pastes from religious preachers, you are missing the whole story.
4/30/2016 11:56:44 AM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	To prove your point you should be able to post multiple articles on Islamic suppression of modern day sufi. So?
4/30/2016 12:19:54 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	Hmmmm Yeah, I guess I could Huh. But would you actually read them, or just repeat the same bullshit over again.
4/30/2016 12:22:55 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
cupocheer Assumption, IL 67, joined May. 2010	All religions have been known to have a terrorist tendency.
4/30/2016 12:29:43 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	Quote from cupocheer: All religions have been known to have a terrorist tendency. This I somewhat correct, where the people invent, "our god is better than yours" so they enforce their will using their god as an excuse. Islam is different where the religion is written to specifically enforce , through murder, It's will.
4/30/2016 12:52:29 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
cupocheer Assumption, IL 67, joined May. 2010	Somewhat. That you for agreeing, somewhat.
4/30/2016 5:20:43 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	Quote from Yasureoktoo: Hmmmm Yeah, I guess I could Huh. But would you actually read them, or just repeat the same bullshit over again. So, you can't defend your statements because I might not read your posts. That's logical. It's also a convenient way to slither out of defending your position.
4/30/2016 5:55:50 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	I'm sick of having to repeat the same shit over and over. Your memory is not my problem.
4/30/2016 9:43:25 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	Quote from Yasureoktoo: I'm sick of having to repeat the same shit over and over. Your memory is not my problem. Yes, you say a lot and you repeat it many times, but you generally fail to support your opinions with facts. And if you want to spout the awful shit that you do inciting people to hatred it ought to be for a truly sound reason. I have proven you wrong about the Sufi and your premise that All Islam is evil. What else are you wrong about? You repeat yourself but what you say is still logically baseless and factually baseless. If you can't prove your case, stop saying opinions like they are facts.
4/30/2016 9:56:22 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	Quote from asanb: Yes, you say a lot and you repeat it many times, but you generally fail to support your opinions with facts. And if you want to spout the awful shit that you do inciting people to hatred it ought to be for a truly sound reason. I have proven you wrong about the Sufi and your premise that All Islam is evil. What else are you wrong about? You repeat yourself but what you say is still logically baseless and factually baseless. If you can't prove your case, stop saying opinions like they are facts. lolol Fail. I have proven everything I claimed about Islam and it's head pervert muhammed. You have proven nothing other than you are brainwashed. I asked you where The sufi get their info about muhammed. You didn't answer, then you mentioned a 21st century cleric, not a good source. Sorry, "ALL" of Islam is evil, and though Sufi probably is not as bad as Islam, it is also not accepted as Islam.
4/30/2016 11:12:28 PM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	Quote from Yasureoktoo: lolol Fail. I have proven everything I claimed about Islam and it's head pervert muhammed. When, where? You have proven nothing other than you are brainwashed. I posted from encyclopedia Britannica and the bbc to support my case I asked you where The sufi get their info about muhammed. You didn't answer, then you mentioned a 21st century cleric, not a good source. Sorry, "ALL" of Islam is evil, and though Sufi probably is not as bad as Islam, it is also not accepted as Islam. Source for your last statement, err opinion?
5/1/2016 12:41:32 AM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	Quote from asanb: Source for your last statement, err opinion? Qur'an, Sunnah. I believe I have quoted thousands of verses over the years. Of course, to some people evil is good.
5/1/2016 12:42:50 AM	ISIS or Islam: Which Breeds Terrorism?
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	LOLOL You quoted from Britianica about Islam, as though that proves anything. Where the f**k do you think they get their info from.

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