Say NO to socialism

9/27/2009 9:13:56 AM	Say NO to socialism
celticdelight South Jordan, UT age: 41	My son showed this to me, it made me laugh: This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US department of energy. I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the national weather service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US Department of Agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the Food and Drug Administration. At the appropriate time as regulated by the US congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the US naval observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads build by the local, state, and federal Departments of Transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank. On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US Postal Service and drop the kids off at the public school. After spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the Department of Labor and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, enjoying another two meals which again do not kill me because of the USDA, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to my house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and fire marshal’s inspection, and which has not been plundered of all it’s valuables thanks to the local police department. I then log on to the internet which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects administration and post on freerepublic.com and Fox News forums about how socialism in medicine is bad because the government can’t do anything right.
9/27/2009 10:41:08 AM	Say NO to socialism
kokopeli_chic33 Salt Lake City, UT age: 28	Thanks Celtic that made me laugh too.
9/27/2009 11:08:35 AM	Say NO to socialism
bjk123 Layton, UT age: 52	Very Cool! Just goes to show how much of our safe day to day activity is dependant on our Govt and the regulations we all fuss about... so maybe health care could be effective also? Look at the Social programs, ie, Social Security and Medicare and VA Hosp. to see how effective and efficient those are- Not very. Still have a long way to go.
9/27/2009 11:27:05 AM	Say NO to socialism
celticdelight South Jordan, UT age: 41	BJK, for medicare, I only see the prescription side of it, and it seems to work fine for the most part- especially if they have double coverage. Tricare also works well for covering the prescriptions. But I haven't had the plain old common sense to make the hospital in-patient medicare and vet hospital correlations to the government plan. I just get upset when the cost of an anti-biotic is still about $45 when I've even signed them up for a discount card, and the person about starts crying at the cost of the medication. Not all drugs are on the simple $4 plan. Don't believe me? Want to get prices? 20 tablets of generic augmentin 875; 20 tablets of clindamycin 300mg; 100 milliliters of 250/5 cefdiner. These are 3 common antibiotics people need every day, available generic, and they're still very expensive. I guess I only see the prescription side, and it seems successful from my POV.
9/27/2009 11:30:39 AM	Say NO to socialism
musky_01 Roy, UT age: 27	The difference in what you're saying and socialism is obvious if you really think about it. Everything quoted in here are PRIVATE industry that are REGULATED by government. SOCIALISM is when government takes over the private sector and does as it pleases. There are a few things the government does that actually may help people, but the majority are just to get in the way with how people may live their lives. I have worked in excavation for 10 years now and I can say that whether OSHA regulates it or not I'm not going to take a chance of hurting/killing any of my employees. That's just common sense that we should take safety seriously at the work place, and there are regulations that actually put me and my guys in danger but I have to follow them or I'm liable if OSHA shows up on my job.
9/27/2009 11:46:45 AM	Say NO to socialism
musky_01 Roy, UT age: 27	It boils down to personal responsibility, that people take care of their PRIORITIES. I know people who don't have health care because they simply "can't afford it." They say this and have a nice place to live, new vehicles, eat fast food at least 3 times a week, have cable tv, have DSL internet, go out to a club friday night for drinks. You get my point here right? The biggest problem with health care right now in America is that it ISN'T a free market industry. State/federal regulations are already so steep that you can only choose from a handful of insurance companies in any given state. If these regulations were backed off we could have COMPETITION and like magic competition lowers price.
9/27/2009 12:21:42 PM	Say NO to socialism
ilarco_180 Roy, UT age: 24	Quote from musky_01: It boils down to personal responsibility, that people take care of their PRIORITIES. I know people who don't have health care because they simply "can't afford it." They say this and have a nice place to live, new vehicles, eat fast food at least 3 times a week, have cable tv, have DSL internet, go out to a club friday night for drinks. You get my point here right? The biggest problem with health care right now in America is that it ISN'T a free market industry. State/federal regulations are already so steep that you can only choose from a handful of insurance companies in any given state. If these regulations were backed off we could have COMPETITION and like magic competition lowers price. With looks and intelligence- I can't imagine why i haven't contacted you yet!! oh yeah, your a feller.. Sometimes i forget
9/27/2009 12:26:48 PM	Say NO to socialism
older_wiser Orem, UT age: 55	That's right I will say to no to socialism. I don't want or need any more government intervention in my life. Yes there are alot of areas in which my life is affected by government agencies on state or federal levels. I don't know of one instance or agency that wouldn't be more efficient if it was run privately. Red tape and waste is what government is about. Name one program that is run effeciently? I say no to big government. Government is out of control. If there is going to be a revolution in the USA I'm ready to sign up. I'm sick of crackpot leaders and politicians that mismanage the publics money, trusts and lives. I don't even want to get started on this issue, sorry! [Edited 9/27/2009 12:28:28 PM PST]
9/27/2009 12:29:00 PM	Say NO to socialism
ilarco_180 Roy, UT age: 24	Quote from older_wiser: That's right I will say to no to socialism. I don't want or need any more government intervention in my life. Yes there are alot of areas in which my life is affected by government agencies on state or federal levels. I don't know of one instance or agency that wouldn't be more efficient if it was run privately. Red tape and waste is what government is about. Name one program that is run effeciently? I say no to big government. Government is out of control. If there is going to be a revolution in the USA I'm ready to sign up. I'm sick of crackpot leaders and politicians that mismanage the publics money, trusts and lives. I don't even want to get started on this issue, sorry! this is why i took a joking position and made a pass at musky. If i try to talk seriously about it i will become enraged.
9/27/2009 12:40:19 PM	Say NO to socialism
musky_01 Roy, UT age: 27	Haha, Ilarco I see you're still up to your crazy antics. Quote from ilarco_180: this is why i took a joking position and made a pass at musky. If i try to talk seriously about it i will become enraged. We all will, that's why I just talk about what I personally know and if someone reads my post and looks into it and becomes aware of the REAL issues I consider that a victory. We can watch the MSM and never get the truth, same goes for faux news tho.
9/27/2009 2:39:28 PM	Say NO to socialism
topendstuff Eden, UT age: 53	Hmmmm Now where is that diplomat gal that signed on here awhile ago?
9/27/2009 4:44:26 PM	Say NO to socialism
kokopeli_chic33 Salt Lake City, UT age: 28	From my point of year. I can only get insurance if I am working through a company. And I am sorry but I think Nationalized healthcare from my standpoint is something we should have had along time ago. I know more than most about the Healthcare providers and which are the best but I havent had any that are worth paper printed on in the last 3 years since I couldnt continue with my parents. I was lucky both my parents had good plans but where I worked since these days they dont give you diddly squat. And for people that believe in preventative medicine like myself it is a slap in the face. I will shut up now but just my point of view.
9/27/2009 7:14:41 PM	Say NO to socialism
offplanet Salt Lake City, UT age: 40	as a information junkie , i find that there is some incredible information out there that should be shared.... have you checked out Zeitgeist the movie or the Zeitgeist Addendum -October 2008 ? you can see the must watch movies in full on vuze http://www.vuze.com/details/7UGWCT4IV2RJS3SVHXSAMDBFTGQAGMKJ.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.vuze.com/details/BO6C4LB7OYV5Q2PWAG72MLTEAUPD7X5H.html .............................................................. To download the full version visit vuze.com ................................... very enlightening and informative!!! we can change the world with information and technology! I want to stay somewhat on topic so I will share some other information later or on another post. hope that you all take time to check these movies out.
9/27/2009 10:20:00 PM	Say NO to socialism
older_wiser Orem, UT age: 55	For some reason our government and it's relationship to society brings to mind the science "fiction" novel "Fahrenheit 451". Admittedly it's been decades since I've read the book....Okay closer to half a century; but there are to many parallels with the governments intrusion in peoples lives....!
9/27/2009 10:34:20 PM	Say NO to socialism
kokopeli_chic33 Salt Lake City, UT age: 28	Quote from older_wiser: For some reason our government and it's relationship to society brings to mind the science "fiction" novel "Fahrenheit 451". Admittedly it's been decades since I've read the book....Okay closer to half a century; but there are to many parallels with the governments intrusion in peoples lives....! If it ever starts to turn into "Animal Farm" or "Brave New World" is when I will really start to worry. Along the same lines the movie District 9 my sister saw and said it really makes you think about what exactly it is that makes us human or how to be human. I want to see it because it sounds like it echoes alot of the same themes as is in "Planet of the Apes" or "Solient Green" I haven't seen "Solient Green" but I have seen clips from it.
9/27/2009 10:34:21 PM	Say NO to socialism
celticdelight South Jordan, UT age: 41	Musky, that's a good point about all those successful processes (a few exceptions) being controlled by private entities with government regulations. An exception I can think of would be the police, but even that can have options. I used to live in Riverton, and at one time they looked at contracting with Salt Lake County, joining with another city and having a combined police force, or starting their own Riverton City department. They had more than one option and were able to choose something both cost-effective and successful. The more I think about the medical care we provide for our veterans, or how patients in hospital on medicare are treated, the more nervous I become. I know there needs to be some sort of solution, we keep leaving too many people under-served. That ends up being more expensive in the long run for everyone: crowded ERs because the ER is non-profit and Urgent Care clinics are not; people getting so sick it's more expensive to treat them, and then they are so financially wiped out that they go on medicaid; tax rebates to hospitals to treat the underprivileged; people who continue working because they can't afford unpaid sick days and get the rest of us sick... OK, what if insurance was just automatically provided by the state for all children up to the age of 18, or longer if they are in school full time? Make certain all the kids are covered through adulthood, give them healthy childhoods so they hopefully won't experience as many problems as adults? Covering costs could come from the extra premiums workers and businesses normally pay to provide for dependents. This also allows competition in the insurance market because adults will still seek coverage as a benefit for themselves and their spouses.
9/28/2009 5:30:05 PM	Say NO to socialism
ilarco_180 Roy, UT age: 24	Look into the Indian Walk In Clinics.. Thats a perfect example of where our healthcare would go if it was socialized.. Did I mention my ex had her wrong kidney removed in one?...
9/28/2009 5:56:30 PM	Say NO to socialism
musky_01 Roy, UT age: 27	I can agree on points you have there, it is a shame so many children in this country are without medical care. But the government being as greedy and under-handed as they are, all they need is a foot in the door. Once the door has been breached they will run rampant through all of health-care as we know it. I'm not going to pretend to know for certain but programs such as SCHIP are helping the need of these children aren't they? (them being funded through tobacco taxes are another issue) but my point is that if someone truly needs help they can always go to family, friends, churches, non-profits. Why is government the solution to these? If you believe in the Constitution then you must believe the Fed was designed to be small (thanks Abe!) and the powers were amongst the states. Sorry for the rant, just telling it how I feel.
9/28/2009 6:48:57 PM	Say NO to socialism
topendstuff Eden, UT age: 53	I love to whine and gripe about the Govt just as much as the next. For example we are in a depression. A lot got laid off and can not find a job....that equals thier other pay rate. JMO We are taking it in the shorts but when has anyone heard of the Govt taking a pay cut? They are getting a +3% (at least) this year. Is it really a depression? All of this and one thing still stands out in my mind. There is no other place I would rather live than in the good ole USA!
9/28/2009 7:16:30 PM	Say NO to socialism
older_wiser Orem, UT age: 55	Be nice to have some financial responsibility, how about only spending what they are able to rip away from our little fingers. Alot of them know how to talk and talk, but can anyone balance a budget???????Sheezzzz!
9/28/2009 7:28:48 PM	Say NO to socialism
kridd2 Salt Lake City, UT age: 42	IMHO, we are a society that needs to be protected. Generally speaking, people can not or will not make the best decisions. Corporations are full of greed and make money by taking advantage of people who don't make smart decisions. So, the government needs to protect us from ourselves and from greed. "Us" is a general term and does not apply to everyone, just the masses. The key is to find the balance. Make sure government doesn't get too big but keep society and greed in check. If somehow we could regulate greed we'd all be better off. Just don't take my gun!
9/28/2009 8:43:00 PM	Say NO to socialism
older_wiser Orem, UT age: 55	Celtic, hope I didn't offend you by my responses. Certainly wasn't attacking you. Talking about government is a hot button for me.
9/28/2009 10:30:17 PM	Say NO to socialism
celticdelight South Jordan, UT age: 41	I'm not upset; on the contrary, I'm learning. I was at work tonight. Always work monday nights now. Chip has expanded health care for children, but there are still many more who go uninsured. They get lost in the cracks too, just like a number of lower-middle class adults. The horrible thing I see is not many people in the lower-middle classes ever get to improve their socio-economic status, and it usually is because of health care and/or education costs. In fact, most of them end up slipping into lower socio-economic classes because of the financial set-backs that occur. How great are we as a nation when we can't even take care of our own people?
9/28/2009 10:33:36 PM	Say NO to socialism
tazz10555 Sandy, UT age: 52	carefull now! you will be branded! branded! branded like a old dog!
9/28/2009 11:42:43 PM	Say NO to socialism
celticdelight South Jordan, UT age: 41	I found it Tazz, just for you. Saw this in another forum: It's called the Veri-chip.
9/29/2009 11:08:44 AM	Say NO to socialism
cachehiker Hyde Park, UT age: 45	If there's one thing I trust less than the government it is big corporations. I am a fundamental Christian and by that I mean I look at what Christ preached and what he did not. I could care less what Leviticus says. As such, there is no such thing as a child undeserving of my compassion. Children are also the future of this country. Leave too many of them sick and uneducated for long enough and we will end up as part of the third world. And if I can keep somebody from dying of simple infection with a $10 antibiotic, you can already guess what I will do. However, there is a big conflict between that and the current American obsession with avoiding any responsibility for their own health. Just look what we eat, how little exercise we get, and the sorts of environmental health hazards we are willing to put up with. One needs to avoid providing too much positive reinforcement for such reckless behavior. Then we get sick and we want the easy way out. Losing weight and quitting smoking and all the rest is hard. A pill or lipo is much easier. And then, if something goes wrong with the easy way out because of a drug interaction or an infection, we sue. We not only sue for actual damages, we sue for punitive damages because we all know the doctor is to blame and needs to be punished for not anticipating that we were lying about our drinking problem or forgot about that other prescription. Alas, the solution is difficult. Tort reform is never going to happen as long as we keep electing lawyers. Medicaid is broken and it too loaded with administrative overhead. It needs to be converted to a universal public health system but it likewise won't happen. A bunch of administrators appointed by the lawyers to determine who is deserving and who is not will lose their jobs. Medicare works and so does Social Security. Only problem there is they're not keeping up with expected life spans, the cost of living adjustments exceed actual inflation, and we keep adding benefits without adding revenue. As long as the elderly vote at a much higher rate than the rest of the population, this won't change either. What is really needed is realism. What's cheaper overall? Paying for somebody's insulin and keeping them in the workforce for another 10 years or paying for their disability claims for that same 10 years? With the media so saturated with vitriolic extremists subsidized by the rich elite, I doubt anything vaguely realistic is going to happen either. I'm afraid we're all going to just have to stick our heads between our legs and kiss our *** goodbye!
9/29/2009 1:14:30 PM	Say NO to socialism
cachehiker Hyde Park, UT age: 45	Quote from older_wiser: Red tape and waste is what government is about. Name one program that is run effeciently? I almost forgot about how this remark resembles my place of employment. It's not a government job but we have the same political infighting and the same ridiculously inefficient decision making and project implementation. Oh the other hand, it's most definitely a "for profit" private enterprise. Are you saying the country would be better off if we took over the health care system?
9/29/2009 5:13:53 PM	Say NO to socialism
offplanet Salt Lake City, UT age: 40	hey celticdelight, and all, as in my last post on this topic "zeitgeist the movie" covers these injectable RFID Chips and their real purpose. to do away with all money and have all your personal, medical, etc. information on the chip, all services will eventually require a RFID chip, and to track every person on the planet and if anyone rejects the status quo or the system they will just turn off your chip. Theres a quote from David Rockafeller" (Bildeberg "king") SAY NO TO BEING CHIPPED!!!!
9/29/2009 6:57:10 PM	Say NO to socialism
musky_01 Roy, UT age: 27	Quote from kridd2: IMHO, we are a society that needs to be protected. Generally speaking, people can not or will not make the best decisions. Corporations are full of greed and make money by taking advantage of people who don't make smart decisions. So, the government needs to protect us from ourselves and from greed. "Us" is a general term and does not apply to everyone, just the masses. The key is to find the balance. Make sure government doesn't get too big but keep society and greed in check. If somehow we could regulate greed we'd all be better off. Just don't take my gun! I agree with everything you said, but never understood why the fed feels it is their job to do the regulating. The powerful have and will always take advantage of those they can so there must be regulations, but differences throughout this country make a "one size fits all" form of regulating fail to create solutions. I believe the powers should remain in the states because what's true here in Utah doesn't always apply in New York or California. One of the things that bothers me most is that the lower-middle class will not be protected by any of this health-care legislation, they will only be fined if they don't get health insurance (or their employer and that will cost this country much needed jobs). No matter how many times we are told that there will be no death-panels it's just not true. There will be a department that when your claim comes through they DECIDE what course of treatment you will receive (if anything more the a pain pill). I also feel this type of legislation will cause the best doctors we have to move their practices because they don't want to deal with the red-tape and have a panel in Washington tell them how much they can charge, also severely hurting the research into new drugs/methods of treatment costing more lives that shouldn't be lost. Having said all that I agree with you Topend, this is the greatest county and will be forever.
9/30/2009 7:49:20 AM	Say NO to socialism
cachehiker Hyde Park, UT age: 45	Quote from musky_01: There will be a department that when your claim comes through they DECIDE what course of treatment you will receive (if anything more the a pain pill). How is this different than the current insurance claims department? Unless your condition attracts media attention and can therefore be used for public relations propoganda, it's currently your bank account that determines the course of treatment you will receive. Years ago, people actually put money in the bank as insurance instead of letting somebody else take 5% off the top to do it for them. As much hype as there is being thrown around about how this is going to do away with middle class benefits, I don't believe anything is really going to change. The working poor will still have to fight for minimal care. The middle class will still be overtested, overtreated, and overcharged through a third party. The rich elite will continue to collect the resulting profit margins. And in the end, somebody will claim to have "fixed" something.
9/30/2009 8:04:57 AM	Say NO to socialism
older_wiser Orem, UT age: 55	Cache, you made a good point earlier as well as Kridd. As much as I would like to see privatization, some big Corp could be worse than the government. There's been to many of them lately that have acted with impunity, even with bail-out money, they spent it where they damn well pleased, acquisitions and bonuses! Pretty much act just like the government, they've become autonomous, answering only to themselves. [Edited 9/30/2009 8:05:29 AM PST]
9/30/2009 6:53:26 PM	Say NO to socialism
celticdelight South Jordan, UT age: 41	Quote from musky_01: also severely hurting the research into new drugs/methods of treatment ... Let me tell you of an example of a great little drug called fenofibrate. It's a great medication used to treat high cholesterol, originally marketed under the brand name Tricor. About 6 months before the patent was due to expire, the company re-formulated the drug to a lower milligram strength and we had to get all the docs to change the patient's prescriptions. When the patent expired and the generic came out, we couldn't substitute without a new prescription because of the difference in milligram strength. They aren't therapeutically equivalent. Now, there are about half-dozen different brand names of this one medication each with different milligram strength, and the generic sits on the shelves. The real crime is the difference between the brand and generic is only a few milligrams in strength, but the cost difference is exorbitant. This is only one of several other sorts of examples I could recite. New dosage strengths but not really a difference in effectiveness. Two long available generics combined into one pill, available only by brand name. Another one that's been around for decades but now available in cream instead of ointment. Yeah, new drugs my ass.
9/30/2009 7:45:43 PM	Say NO to socialism
musky_01 Roy, UT age: 27	Quote from celticdelight: Let me tell you of an example of a great little drug called fenofibrate. It's a great medication used to treat high cholesterol, originally marketed under the brand name Tricor. About 6 months before the patent was due to expire, the company re-formulated the drug to a lower milligram strength and we had to get all the docs to change the patient's prescriptions. When the patent expired and the generic came out, we couldn't substitute without a new prescription because of the difference in milligram strength. They aren't therapeutically equivalent. Now, there are about half-dozen different brand names of this one medication each with different milligram strength, and the generic sits on the shelves. The real crime is the difference between the brand and generic is only a few milligrams in strength, but the cost difference is exorbitant. This is only one of several other sorts of examples I could recite. New dosage strengths but not really a difference in effectiveness. Two long available generics combined into one pill, available only by brand name. Another one that's been around for decades but now available in cream instead of ointment. Yeah, new drugs my ass. I didn't know this, but honestly I'm not the least bit surprised. Changing the dose so the prescriptions written cannot be interchanged to the generics is a horrible way of doing business. Not working in the health-care field I only have what I have heard friends say (also what I read online, but it's so hard to find the actual facts when looking on a controversial topic). I have heard that this type of legislation will severely hurt our ability to research new methods of treatment and develop new drugs that very well could save lives.
9/30/2009 10:35:51 PM	Say NO to socialism
celticdelight South Jordan, UT age: 41	There is the flip side of research. A drug company usually tests somewhere between 1,000,000 and 100,000,000 (yes, one million to one hundred million) chemical moieties before they get one drug to market. Ideally, you're paying for all the other drugs that didn't work out on the way to finding the one that did. That's great, those drugs should be more expensive. Another category is "me too" drugs. An example is the statins used to lower cholesterol. The first ones on the market were ok, but the last two on the market are the best ones out there. The same sort of thing also happened in a couple of hypertension medication categories. If we discouraged research for similar drugs, we may be abandoning our chance at getting the best available medication. Again, we need to pay for that research. The flip side is a number of companies get federal grant money to do research to find new drugs. Some of those new drugs are ignored by US drug manufacturers and get picked up by European countries. Either way, it is the research- and the quest for profit- that helps set our health care above other countries in the world.

www mega personals

skipthegames women