That Euphoric Moment...

2/11/2008 10:38:26 AM	That Euphoric Moment...
simonsickboy Guelph, ON age: 23	The euphoric moment, that 'there is no god' moment...when did you have it? how/where did it happen? For me, I was deep in thought in bed one night, trying to fall asleep when it struck me. there is no god, I said aloud, 'no god exists, nor ever existed' - I fell down exasperated from the weight I just removed from my shoulders and slept like I've never slept before - waking up with a new lease on life. I had never thought myself to be religious, nor believed necessarily in a god, I simply had never put more than an effortless thought to it, it seemed as though if there is a god, well then so be it, I never really took a stance. I thought to myself about the fallacy of religion, and how religion has caused the troubles the world has, religion is the removal of innocence. I thought to myself and I realised that thought itself negated the possibility of a god. I was 16. The defining thought was thought itself. That is to say, the mere fact that one can think in and of itself negates the possibility for a god as puppeteer in the world. And I shortly took the stance when confronted by religiously unenlightened that, if god were completely and absolutely in control of the world, and our destiny, by judgement when the cool hand of death arrives then he certainly cannot fault me for the way I have lived my life since it would have been him that designed that life, and so if I were to be cast into a hell, he too must cast himself there as my puppeteer. I then thought, well, if that were so, one may argue I have the ability to choose, but once again this choice in and of itself negates space for a god, for if I truly am able to choose then god cannot exist because I am choosing, not god - and thus judgement can only be handed down by myself. Ignoring the world that religion has created and destroyed, and the argument of evolution and such common arguments (as to me, evolution, morality, etc, need not god to exist). The mere possibilty that I can harbour thought, act upon thought, and have the ability to choose negate the existence of god. Now some may argue that the choices are really led by god, and if so, then I surely cannot be condemned to a hell for those actions - since I did not choose to make them, god did. Eureka! I think. I question. I choose. I live. Ergo there is no god. I have never slept so well.
2/11/2008 11:12:30 AM	That Euphoric Moment...
grizz67 Bernville, PA age: 41	I can't claim to have had an epiphany like yours. I was raise in a religious household and I have been confirmed in a Lutheran church (Catholic light). My parents were close friends with our pastors family and we hung out at their house regularly, in fact it was in their attic that I saw my first girly books the pastor kept in a big box(nice huh?). I go to know all the church members out side of the church and saw what hypocrite's they all were, acting one way in church and another out. Over the years I have seen stories about some of the most horrific child abuse stories, rape, torture and personally know numerous women who were victims of sexual abuse as little girls. If there is a god, then he can kiss my a** for allowing such tragedy to befall the so called innocent among us. Over time and through education I have concluded there is no magic man in the sky handing out magic sticks to the chosen. Blind, unquestioning allegiance to a 2000+ year old story is not my style. Think about it, I believe there was a guy named Jesus and I think he was the Houdini of his time. He focused on the millions of slaves of the time, people who could be killed if they knew how to read and write, people for whom education was illegal. Wow, lets see, the basket is empty, now it is full, the bottle is full of water, now it's wine, sound anything like the shell game or rabbit in the hat that every kids birthday clown does today? Religion teaches people to be a good and decent person, I have no problem with that. My problem with religion is when they feel they have the "duty" or "god given right" to force those beliefs upon everyone else. The best line from a movie I ever heard concerning religion was on the modern day version of "flight of the phoenix". An Arab gentlemen discussing religion with a Latino gentlemen couldn't believe the Latino was taking the time to pray before eating his share of a can of peaches after all they had been through, the Latino man asked him if he was religious to which the Arab man stated the the only thing organized religion has done for man kind is to divide it. My 2 cents, and then some.
2/11/2008 8:15:49 PM	That Euphoric Moment...
simonsickboy Guelph, ON age: 23	Cited:"Over the years I have seen stories about some of the most horrific child abuse stories, rape, torture and personally know numerous women who were victims of sexual abuse as little girls. If there is a god, then he can kiss my a for allowing such tragedy to befall the so called innocent among us." I agree, however much greater than the physical abuse, I feel, is the mental abuse. Indoctrinating a child into a lifestyle to which he/she has no choice is a longer lasting evil. Depriving someone of the right to choose (somewhat akin to rape) who hasn't the power of thought to reject or even question such indoctrination is very akin to mental rape. Further, god never said rape and pillage was wrong - in fact he has, in scripture, spoken to many and commanded them to slaughter, rape and leave nothing, nor man, nor child, nor sheep, nor goat, nor all that breathe alive. The bible itself speaks of fathers giving away daughters to a horde of men (who will surely rape her) because he has a guest, a so called angel guest. But again that's neithe rhere nor there. The mental abuse I believe is the fundamental problem - the physical abuse is simply evolution, that is, the man's primal urge to fornicate (in the natural sense, for reproduction). Cited:**"Religion teaches people to be a good and decent person, I have no problem with that" I sincerely, and whole heartedly disagree with this. Religion and scripture do not teach one to be good - though I suppose this goes deeper into what is good, and the opposite thereof? I do not believe if devout followers of 'god's' word would be deemed morally just, or correct. I have mentioned afore that the bible (and Qu'ran and other 'holy books') promote violence, rape, pillage, and not just to man, but to animal the like - to which we do not attribute the ability to rationalize right from wrong (as this is what humans, in general, use to differentiate themselves from say a tiger, or koala). The best example is to ask a seirously religious person if their faith is the correct one. If they are Muslim, ask them about christianity, if christian ask them about judaism, or polytheism, ask a Catholic about protestants...surely anyone who is not part of their group would surely be a heathen, comdemned, and on a path to whichever hell they decide to conjure up at this particular moment. surely that cannot be morally just, in the Kantian sense. Furthermore, jihads, crusades, other holy wars would surely not be deemed ethical in either the Kantian or the utilitarian sense. I do not believe religion teaches people to be good...I do not think that religion DESERVES to have the authority to judge what is good - there are surely better methodology to distinguish good from the opposite of good - simply because it has no barometer, and that which was 'good' when these guys wrote the books, is drastically different from what is 'good' in our physical world today.

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