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Forums: Groups: Christians: Is Hell literal, or is it figurative?
3/29/2008 3:46:47 PM Is Hell literal, or is it figurative?  

zacman555
Navarre, FL
age: 50
1. We are experiencing hell now
2. No, hell is a literal burning torture chamber
3. Hell is separation from God
4. Hell is a metaphor of judgment which is corrective
5. All of the above
6. Some of the above


Ok,

Since there have been questions about whether everyone will be saved and that escalated into whether or not there is a literal hell, or whether that is a metaphor about judgment which is either corrective, or strictly punitive in nature.

The main question then arises, is whether, God plans to bring all of His creation to repentance and conform them into His image.

Or, did He make mankind and knew the vast majority would have to be tortured for endless ages without any hope of correction? (remember many if not most of your friends and relatives will fall into this category)

I would be very interested in your thoughts.

Best regards,
Zac



[Edited 3/29/2008 7:50:36 PM]
3/30/2008 11:36:01 AM Is Hell literal, or is it figurative?  

baydreamer7
Lancaster, PA
age: 47

 I do believe that hell represents an eternal seperation from God. Whether it is actually a place remains to be seen. (I've read your posts on what the word hell means. Do I remember correctly that you said the word "hell" is not in the Bible? My concordance lists at least 50 references to the word.) As I've stated in another thread, I believe that it is God's desire that none should perish (as the Bible clearly states). But it is also illustrated in the Bible, that some will, i.e the story of Lazarus. And even though it is a story or parable, it's there to illustrate a biblical point.
3/30/2008 4:54:12 PM Is Hell literal, or is it figurative?  

zacman555
Navarre, FL
age: 50

 Hell is an english word translated from sheo, hades, tartarus, and gehenna.

That does not make it biblical.

Please state your reasons for you belief with either scripture, or just your general feelings on the subject.

Best wishes,
Zac



[Edited 3/30/2008 4:54:45 PM]
3/31/2008 5:53:25 PM Is Hell literal, or is it figurative?  

just1forme
Madison, IN
age: 42

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4/1/2008 6:27:32 AM Is Hell literal, or is it figurative?  

zacman555
Navarre, FL
age: 50

 Just,

Bibleuniverse.com is an extension of 7th day adventists which have an historicist view of prophecy and believe Sunday worship is the mark of the beast.

They also teach Saturday worship is the seal of God.

Their problem is they are caught up in the physical observance, instead of the spiritual.

They even consider Ellen White as a Prophetess. Using Rev. 19 and the spirit of prophecy passage as their biblical text.

Granted she was a prolific writer, but her theories are as full of holes as the popes for crying out loud.

Observing saturday as sabbath is no the seal of God than observing sunday is the mark of the beast. Just more delusion darlin'

Unfortunately the majority of those who expose the adventists, are just as full of heretical doctrines as the adventists are. Just ones more exceptable to orthodox christians.

Best wishes,
Zac
4/1/2008 10:45:24 AM Is Hell literal, or is it figurative?  

captpappy
Morgan City, LA
age: 53

 Here's what I read Zac
(Be patient Zac, you'll find I agree with some of your views.)

Revelations chapter 12(not time specific but clearly before the tribulation - (now and past)
9: And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10: And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Satan is expelled from heaven and cast to earth, no lake of fire yet! The tribulation hasn't happened yet so Satan is with us here on earth.


Revelations chapter 20 (the end of the 7 year tribulation)
1: And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2: And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3: And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

The thousand years is reference to the thousand years Jesus Christ will rule on Earth after his return.
Satan is bound and imprisoned in the bottomless pit for this 1000 years! Again this has not happened yet unless you believe we have already gone through the seven year tribulation. No "lake of fire yet"!


...then this
Revelations chapter 20
7: And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8: And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9: And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10: And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


Actually Zac, I'm in total agreement with you that Hell, as a place of fire and torment, does not exist. The lake of fire does not exist, YET! Or at least that it has not been used, yet. People not in Christ that have come and gone from earth, are NOT burning in Hell (a place of fire and torment) but await the second "Throne Judgment" Read Revelations 20/11-13

finally:
Revelations chapter 20
14: And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15: And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

"death" and hell is the physical death man brought on himself from the "original sin" and is finally removed. Hell used here as an entity is a bit confusing and maybe Zac's explanation that the word hell originally meant "to cover up" or "to bury" might reveal who or what Hell is (as referred to here).

Whether the lake of fire is symbolic of something else, the description, "shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever" leaves very little to "interpretation".

How ever you see Revelations, that last statement means (at least) to be cast away from God. Makes me want to be sure I remain in the Book of Life.

Zac: After listening to several audio clips, I also COMPLETELY agree with you on the misguided Bibleuniverse.com.!!!



[Edited 4/1/2008 11:10:23 AM]
4/1/2008 11:28:20 AM Is Hell literal, or is it figurative?  

zacman555
Navarre, FL
age: 50

 Capt.

I'll make one comment for starters:

the description, "shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever" leaves very little to "interpretation".


Ok, so is forever and ever longer than just forever?

My real point is it is aion of the aions, to for the age of the ages, bottom line is it will have an end. The words forever, and forever and ever should not be in the bible.

Christ will not reign forever for example. After He has put down all opposition, He himself will be subject to God the Father that God may be All in ALL


* Isaiah 45:23 KJV

I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return , That unto me every knee shall bow , every tongue shall swear .

* Romans 14:11 KJV

For it is written , As I live , saith the Lord , every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.


* Philippians 2:11 KJV

And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1 Cor. 15: 28.
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Would someone like to explain to me how every knee can bow to Christ and confess Him LORD to the glory of the Father

And then God is all IN ALL if the vast majority of His creation is in a literal hell hole of literal fire?

I await your response.
Zac



[Edited 4/1/2008 11:29:33 AM]
4/1/2008 11:55:10 AM Is Hell literal, or is it figurative?  

captpappy
Morgan City, LA
age: 53

 First of all, You are the one who keeps saying “the vast majority”. I've never said that. I don't know who is in the Book of Life, any more than you or anyone else.

What I do know is that it says that those not found in the Book of Life will be cast into the lake of fire. Elsewhere it says that you can be removed or blotted out from the book of life so it's not a given that all of creation will be included.

It is not a given that all mankind will be in the Book of Life or God wouldn't have included the statement “And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.” Why would God contradict himself?

Secondly, the passages you keep referring to are referring to a time after Christ's return. Of course all who are left on earth will acknowledge Christ at that point.

Whether for eternity or half an eternity or an eternity of eternities, I don't particularly want to experience endless torment. Not even for three days! (Christ already did that for me.)

If instead of "forever" we should read an "age", how long is an age. Wouldn't "The age of Christ" be the last age and therefore be forever?



[Edited 4/1/2008 12:13:03 PM]
4/1/2008 2:36:52 PM Is Hell literal, or is it figurative?  

zacman555
Navarre, FL
age: 50

 Excellent questions.

The answers are going to blow you away!

Give me a few to do this justice.


Best wishes,
Zac



[Edited 4/1/2008 2:37:20 PM]
4/1/2008 5:04:59 PM Is Hell literal, or is it figurative?  

rich101
Lillington, NC
age: 51

 Zac
Zac
I see you continue to slander, putdown and judge others, I checked out your profile.
I am curious to know just what denomination do you belong.
God be with you.
Rich



[Edited 4/1/2008 5:05:46 PM]
4/2/2008 12:56:29 PM Is Hell literal, or is it figurative?  

zacman555
Navarre, FL
age: 50

 Rich, Rich,

LOL,

First of all, where have I slandered anyone? I have posted what I believe, and for the most part that varies from what others do. I also point out error as I see it. What I do is post numerous scriptures to support my views.

If you disagree, you are more than welcome to support your view. I would suggest you do so with scripture however.

There are literally thousands of Christian secs and denominations. Most of which disagree with each other on numerous issues. This is the confusion of Babylon IMO.

When God says, come out of her my people, I don't believe he is talking to budists, or hindu etc. I believe he is talking to believers in Christ who have been deceived by the doctrines of orthodox Christianity.

I enjoy the opportunity to share what I have learned over decades of research. I am just beginning to understand some of the things I have searched for so long. I have also had others thank me privately for sharing things they had wondered about.

So, if you have a question, I'm all ears.

Best wishes,
Zac
4/2/2008 3:05:32 PM Is Hell literal, or is it figurative?  

rich101
Lillington, NC
age: 51

 So are you allso saying this is how a Christian is to act?


3/30/2008 7:28:45 AM why should the opposite sex want to date you? flag post: (wrong forum | off topic/chat | inappropriate) reply

zacman555
Navarre, FL
age: 50 online now!
view all: posts | threads

Chicks dig me because I rarely wear underwear.


3/29/2008 7:42:17 PM The Official Unofficial Flirting Thread! flag post: (wrong forum | off topic/chat | inappropriate) reply

zacman555
Navarre, FL
age: 50 online now!

view all: posts | threads
I just made over a grand online today, is that a turn on anyone?

I'm ready for sex now,....

Is that flirting or what

3/29/2008 3:55:26 PM Calling All Panhandlers, Let's get ready to Partie' flag post: (wrong forum | off topic/chat | inappropriate) reply


zacman555
Navarre, FL
age: 50 online now!

view all: posts | threads
Like I always say...Cool as a mountain stream!

I'm ready for some real good party lovin' times.
4/2/2008 4:04:20 PM Is Hell literal, or is it figurative?  

zacman555
Navarre, FL
age: 50

 You know Rich,

I could block you from posting in my threads but I am not.

Instead of presenting your view, and supporting it with scripture, you decide to post my personal information. Wow, you should have been a politician...LOL

Now, do I have to go through all of the trouble of stating the context of my posts you took the liberty of posting here in an unrelated thread?

Were they simply jokingly made in a thread? Who knows unless someone takes the time to look, and even then doesn't know who I may have been responding to, and what those people would have thought of those comments.

And you accuse me of slander!!!!!!!!


Unbelievable.

Now, if you want to keep this thread on topic, and discuss something related to it fine.

I am more than willing to discuss anyones views. Not to mention I hope others can and will support their views with scripture.

Pretty easy Rich.

I get pretty funny and onery in ADULT threads with those I know. If you can't handle that fine. Just don't try to make self righteous inuendoes, It's called legalism Rich in case you didn't know.

Zac

P.S. BTW, chicks dig me because I rarely wear underwear is a quote from Stripes with Bill Murray in case you didn't know that either



[Edited 4/2/2008 6:13:17 PM]
4/2/2008 6:04:22 PM Is Hell literal, or is it figurative?  

rich101
Lillington, NC
age: 51

 And now you may see that when you comment on things that you fully don’t understand or think you do, how it affects others. The point I am trying to get across is get fact straight before jumping to conclusions. Didn't feel to god when thr tyde got changed did it.
4/2/2008 6:48:20 PM Is Hell literal, or is it figurative?  

zacman555
Navarre, FL
age: 50

 Capt,

Ok, now that the distractions are aside..LOL let's get back to what we were talking about.

When I talk about the vast majority, I am talking about what orthodox Christianity teaches.
Basically it is if your not a born again Christian then you are not going to heaven.

Even if we expand that to just those who profess to be Christians, then that leaves us at least at 2/3s of the rest of the world, not including the billions who have lived in past centuries.

Are you starting to get my point?

Many are called but few are chosen. Narrow is the gate and few there be that find it.

Do I need to reference these scriptures? We all know these. Just saving time.

Ok,

Let's discuss the Book of Life.

Does being blotted out of the book of life mean you can not be re-instated?

Does God blot out those he loves with no chance of remittance?

God is love, and He loves everyone. We are all sinners. Even the very elect have gone through great trials and judgment in their lives while they sinned continually.

Paul himself stated he died daily and pressed on unless after preaching to others he might be a castaway.

Obviously dieing daily means to die to self, sin, and carnal mindedness.

So,
Whosoever is not found in the book of life is cast into the lake of fire.

Of course.

What do you think the Lake of Fire is?

It is the judgment the elect will have on the rest of the world.

And if there judgment now corrected them, then what do you thing the result will be for the rest of the world?

Heb. 1:
# 7.
# And of the angels he saith , Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

Don't you see that fire is representative of correction and cleansing?

* Malachi 3:2 KJV

But who may abide the day of his coming ? and who shall stand when he appeareth ? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers ' soap:


If instead of "forever" we should read an "age", how long is an age. Wouldn't "The age of Christ" be the last age and therefore be forever?


Absolutely not, Capt. The coming age is when Christ will rule and reign. After he has put down all enemies and subdued all sinners he will turn the kingdom over to His Father God.

* 1 Corinthians 15:28 KJV

And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.


Enough for now.

Anyone else have anything else to add?

Best wishes,
Zac

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