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1/23/2016 2:03:42 PM God does exist!  

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (10,451)
Jacksonville, FL
75, joined Apr. 2011


I said:
Have you seen a monkey come out of the jungle and ask for direction? Yes, evolution has given man a body but that doesn't mean evolution is not part of God's creative plan. What separates man from the animal is mind, the ability to reason and make purposeful decisions with the inherent desire for increasing knowledge. Desire is the driving force of creation and desire in its purest form derives from a divine source that is love dominated.


You reply:
Quote from nonstandard:
You cant escape reality , you will be tortured by it , no matter how long you live .

Its not that bad , its actually quite rewarding , when you stop thinking of yourself .

Realty is not torturing me. Is it torturing you? Is that why you appear unable to respond to what is said and answer the questions asked? How does your reply relate to my quoted post?

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1/23/2016 2:06:49 PM God does exist!  

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (10,451)
Jacksonville, FL
75, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from nonstandard:
Mind is what makes us the same , observation makes use realize , that we're the same creatures we attack .

Do we look , or do we look away ?

Don't take illegal drugs abusively. It will damage your brain cells.

1/23/2016 2:21:19 PM God does exist!  

nonstandard
Over 2,000 Posts (3,650)
York, PA
53, joined Jun. 2009


Quote from kb2222:
What are you pissing on?


Me ? I'm pissing on your bullshit .

1/23/2016 2:26:14 PM God does exist!  

nonstandard
Over 2,000 Posts (3,650)
York, PA
53, joined Jun. 2009


Quote from kb2222:
I said:
Have you seen a monkey come out of the jungle and ask for direction? Yes, evolution has given man a body but that doesn't mean evolution is not part of God's creative plan. What separates man from the animal is mind, the ability to reason and make purposeful decisions with the inherent desire for increasing knowledge. Desire is the driving force of creation and desire in its purest form derives from a divine source that is love dominated.


You reply:
Quote from nonstandard:
You cant escape reality , you will be tortured by it , no matter how long you live .

Its not that bad , its actually quite rewarding , when you stop thinking of yourself .

Realty is not torturing me. Is it torturing you? Is that why you appear unable to respond to what is said and answer the questions asked? How does your reply relate to my quoted post?



You can cry until the cows come home . It wont save you from the amazing wonders you choose to ignore .

1/23/2016 2:47:13 PM God does exist!  

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (10,451)
Jacksonville, FL
75, joined Apr. 2011


I said:

Have you seen a monkey come out of the jungle and ask for direction? Yes, evolution has given man a body but that doesn't mean evolution is not part of God's creative plan. What separates man from the animal is mind, the ability to reason and make purposeful decisions with the inherent desire for increasing knowledge. Desire is the driving force of creation and desire in its purest form derives from a divine source that is love dominated.

If you have disagreement with what I said stop pissing on yourself with your absurd utterances attacking me and express it.

1/23/2016 3:03:11 PM God does exist!  

nonstandard
Over 2,000 Posts (3,650)
York, PA
53, joined Jun. 2009


Quote from kb2222:
I said:

Have you seen a monkey come out of the jungle and ask for direction? Yes, evolution has given man a body but that doesn't mean evolution is not part of God's creative plan. What separates man from the animal is mind, the ability to reason and make purposeful decisions with the inherent desire for increasing knowledge. Desire is the driving force of creation and desire in its purest form derives from a divine source that is love dominated.

If you have disagreement with what I said stop pissing on yourself with your absurd utterances attacking me and express it.


The universe has been doing what it has always done long before we got here . It will continue long after we're gone .

We're not here because something said we had to be here , we're here because we were created under the same roof as everything else .

Denial of this fact creates all wars , and conflicts . Such as the conflict today , that makes something of nothing .

1/23/2016 3:08:36 PM God does exist!  

olderthandirt20
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,514)
Waldron, AR
69, joined Jul. 2014
online now!


Speaking of monkeys did you know chimpanzees band together and make spears and then hunt monkeys for meat. They organize for tactical hunts surrounding the faster monkeys and attack the prey while the main party waits on the edges and kill as the the smaller monkeys try to escape.
Man is the supposedly superior great ape due to opposing thumbs and the ability to reason, and lo and behold chimpanzees have the same ability ( at a lesser level ) to do the same things.
Our family tree is amazing isn't it?

1/23/2016 3:13:23 PM God does exist!  

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (10,451)
Jacksonville, FL
75, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from olderthandirt20:
Speaking of monkeys did you know chimpanzees band together and make spears and then hunt monkeys for meat. They organize for tactical hunts surrounding the faster monkeys and attack the prey while the main party waits on the edges and kill as the the smaller monkeys try to escape.
Man is the supposedly superior great ape due to opposing thumbs and the ability to reason, and lo and behold chimpanzees have the same ability ( at a lesser level ) to do the same things.
Our family tree is amazing isn't it?

As I said:

Yes, evolution has given man a body but that doesn't mean evolution is not part of God's creative plan. What separates man from the animal is mind, the ability to reason and make purposeful decisions with the inherent desire for increasing knowledge. Desire is the driving force of creation and desire in its purest form derives from a divine source that is love dominated.

1/23/2016 3:16:00 PM God does exist!  

nonstandard
Over 2,000 Posts (3,650)
York, PA
53, joined Jun. 2009


Quote from kb2222:
As I said:

Yes, evolution has given man a body but that doesn't mean evolution is not part of God's creative plan. What separates man from the animal is mind, the ability to reason and make purposeful decisions with the inherent desire for increasing knowledge. Desire is the driving force of creation and desire in its purest form derives from a divine source that is love dominated.


As you said , as you say again , nobody gives a shit . Get over yourself .

1/23/2016 3:27:02 PM God does exist!  

nonstandard
Over 2,000 Posts (3,650)
York, PA
53, joined Jun. 2009


Quote from kb2222:
As I said:

Yes, evolution has given man a body but that doesn't mean evolution is not part of God's creative plan. What separates man from the animal is mind, the ability to reason and make purposeful decisions with the inherent desire for increasing knowledge. Desire is the driving force of creation and desire in its purest form derives from a divine source that is love dominated.


That's your whole problem , you don't care what anyone says to you , you only care about what you say to them .

Communication is a two way street . Open your eyes , and the mind will follow , what are you afraid of ?

1/23/2016 3:37:47 PM God does exist!  

olderthandirt20
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,514)
Waldron, AR
69, joined Jul. 2014
online now!


Quote from nonstandard:
That's your whole problem , you don't care what anyone says to you , you only care about what you say to them .

Communication is a two way street . Open your eyes , and the mind will follow , what are you afraid of ?


As you said , as you say again , nobody gives a shit . Get over yourself .



Exactly



[Edited 1/23/2016 3:38:05 PM ]

1/23/2016 3:51:33 PM God does exist!  

rufftreasure
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (15,493)
Fairmont, MN
60, joined Jun. 2014


Well since 2009, I have watched him behave this way, odds are that it won't change.

1/23/2016 4:56:14 PM God does exist!  

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (10,451)
Jacksonville, FL
75, joined Apr. 2011


If you have disagreement with what I said stop pissing on yourself with your absurd utterances attacking me and express it.

1/23/2016 5:04:52 PM God does exist!  
irishrose0906
Dublin, OH
51, joined Mar. 2013


Quote from nonstandard:
The universe has been doing what it has always done long before we got here . It will continue long after we're gone .

We're not here because something said we had to be here , we're here because we were created under the same roof as everything else .

Denial of this fact creates all wars , and conflicts . Such as the conflict today , that makes something of nothing .


Being here in this material realm is not the ultimate destination my friend. This world is like a school of hard knocks and we are here because of our fall from grace, or because we chose to come to experience the physical realm. We are all spiritual beings created in Gods image which is spiritual. God is not physical and is no perspector of persons. God does not see your physical identity. He only see's you spirit, your inner being, and that isn't your ego, because that sense of self is physical and not be taken with you when you die. Only the spirit that came from heaven can return to heaven. And that is the duality aspect of the situation. You have a sense of self you created to live in this physical realm, and then you have the spirit that God created. The two cannot ascend together, you have to give up the ghost in the end.

1/23/2016 5:31:33 PM God does exist!  

nonstandard
Over 2,000 Posts (3,650)
York, PA
53, joined Jun. 2009


Quote from irishrose0906:
Being here in this material realm is not the ultimate destination my friend. This world is like a school of hard knocks and we are here because of our fall from grace, or because we chose to come to experience the physical realm. We are all spiritual beings created in Gods image which is spiritual. God is not physical and is no perspector of persons. God does not see your physical identity. He only see's you spirit, your inner being, and that isn't your ego, because that sense of self is physical and not be taken with you when you die. Only the spirit that came from heaven can return to heaven. And that is the duality aspect of the situation. You have a sense of self you created to live in this physical realm, and then you have the spirit that God created. The two cannot ascend together, you have to give up the ghost in the end.



The ghost is in your head . It is in your body , but your head pretends like its not there , its a psychological phenomina . It works great for killing for food and shelter , but it sucks for building , and making stuff work .

1/23/2016 5:48:23 PM God does exist!  

nonstandard
Over 2,000 Posts (3,650)
York, PA
53, joined Jun. 2009


Everything we know , comes from a universe outside of the brain .

Everything we think we know , is trapped within a brain .

1/23/2016 8:28:01 PM God does exist!  

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (10,451)
Jacksonville, FL
75, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from nonstandard:
Everything we know , comes from a universe outside of the brain .

Everything we think we know , is trapped within a brain .



How is what you think you know trapped in your brain when you can tell others what you think you know, can't you? That's what you are doing although incoherently, isn't it?

1/23/2016 8:54:55 PM God does exist!  

rufftreasure
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (15,493)
Fairmont, MN
60, joined Jun. 2014


Quote from kb2222:
If you have disagreement with what I said stop pissing on yourself with your absurd utterances attacking me and express it.


I did!!

I didn't utter anything, I don't like the way you debate or treat others. I don't like what you say either.
You already know that.
I never piss on myself, I sit when I pee.
You are the one who has to worry about pissing on themselves, cuz you are just pissin in the wind. And you're facing it..... the wind.
Comprende, NOW.??
Why did you even let me outta the Iggy Bin??
I get creeped out when I see you gawking at me on my who's gawked at you list

1/23/2016 9:35:36 PM God does exist!  

asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,645)
Sanbornton, NH
60, joined Jul. 2012


Quote from irishrose0906:
Being here in this material realm is not the ultimate destination my friend. This world is like a school of hard knocks and we are here because of our fall from grace, or because we chose to come to experience the physical realm. We are all spiritual beings created in Gods image which is spiritual. God is not physical and is no perspector of persons. God does not see your physical identity. He only see's you spirit, your inner being, and that isn't your ego, because that sense of self is physical and not be taken with you when you die. Only the spirit that came from heaven can return to heaven. And that is the duality aspect of the situation. You have a sense of self you created to live in this physical realm, and then you have the spirit that God created. The two cannot ascend together, you have to give up the ghost in the end.


The Hindu don't describe it as a "fall from grace", They say that God was one and wished to become many, so the universe came into existence, with a drop of "god" manifest in every living creature as a consciousness. We are divine in origin and we are destined to return to that divinity in this lifetime or in one some incarnation in the future.

Our gregarious nature as a species and our tendency to ascend rather than descend is evidence of our inner nature.

A newborn is a consciousness within a body that develops a mind as the intermediary between it's attention and it's body. we are stuck with that mind till we die, and it ends with the body's death.
The key understanding is that we are not ensouled bodies, we are embodied souls.

1/24/2016 12:28:11 AM God does exist!  

nonstandard
Over 2,000 Posts (3,650)
York, PA
53, joined Jun. 2009


Quote from rufftreasure:
I did!!

I didn't utter anything, I don't like the way you debate or treat others. I don't like what you say either.
You already know that.
I never piss on myself, I sit when I pee.
You are the one who has to worry about pissing on themselves, cuz you are just pissin in the wind. And you're facing it..... the wind.
Comprende, NOW.??
Why did you even let me outta the Iggy Bin??
I get creeped out when I see you gawking at me on my who's gawked at you list


I call it the kb wall . You ask a question , when someone answers , you ask them why they did'nt answer your question . I don't really see the point , but he loves it , he can play it all day long .

1/24/2016 12:38:44 AM God does exist!  

nonstandard
Over 2,000 Posts (3,650)
York, PA
53, joined Jun. 2009


Quote from kb2222:


How is what you think you know trapped in your brain when you can tell others what you think you know, can't you? That's what you are doing although incoherently, isn't it?


If you want to understand , just climb up out of your hole .

1/24/2016 9:21:45 AM God does exist!  

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (10,451)
Jacksonville, FL
75, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from rufftreasure:
I did!!

I didn't utter anything, I don't like the way you debate or treat others. I don't like what you say either.
You already know that.
I never piss on myself, I sit when I pee.
You are the one who has to worry about pissing on themselves, cuz you are just pissin in the wind. And you're facing it..... the wind.
Comprende, NOW.??
Why did you even let me outta the Iggy Bin??

Good question. I thought maybe you might finally be willing to engage in some serious discourse instead of nothing but personal attacks but I see you are not.

I get creeped out when I see you gawking at me on my who's gawked at you list

Really. Well this just clearly shows your weird mindset and I regrettably will solve that problem for you.

1/24/2016 9:36:09 AM God does exist!  

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (10,451)
Jacksonville, FL
75, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from nonstandard:
If you want to understand , just climb up out of your hole .

What I understand is that you make ridiculous statements and when questioned you refuse to answer.

1/24/2016 9:45:17 AM God does exist!  

aphrodisianus
Over 1,000 Posts (1,600)
Leander, TX
66, joined Oct. 2013


Quote from kb2222:
What I understand is that you make ridiculous statements and when questioned you refuse to answer.


That's hilarious coming from you saying a book was written by non-humans and you hear voices in your head talking to you. It's obvious psychosis is the foundation of your religious delusions. There is no way you can explain that without making yourself look like an ass.

1/24/2016 9:47:08 AM God does exist!  

aphrodisianus
Over 1,000 Posts (1,600)
Leander, TX
66, joined Oct. 2013


Quote from kb2222:
Really. Well this just clearly shows your weird mindset and I regrettably will solve that problem for you.


How does someone who has hallucinations and delusions about non-humans writing books say something is weird?

1/24/2016 9:50:24 AM God does exist!  

rufftreasure
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (15,493)
Fairmont, MN
60, joined Jun. 2014


Yes, well , I knew he would block me!!
He gets his cheap shot, then blocks me so he gets the last word.
I don't need the last word.
If he acts the way he does, and I get a chance, I will confront him
First way I know I am outta the iggy bin is when I get creeped out cuz he's gawking at me!!
Then I sit back and watch....... then when he starts talkin STUPID, I confront him, as do many others, then he , like a coward he throws a cheap shot, then he blocks
It's a pattern

1/24/2016 9:57:42 AM God does exist!  

aphrodisianus
Over 1,000 Posts (1,600)
Leander, TX
66, joined Oct. 2013


Quote from kb2222:


How is what you think you know trapped in your brain when you can tell others what you think you know, can't you? That's what you are doing although incoherently, isn't it?


Here is an example of kb2222 using the word "incoherent". He uses words like "weird" and "ridiculous" coming from the same guy who babbles about aliens are telepathically communicating with him and that his book of nonsense is written by non-humans.

He provides a great deal of evidence he is not mentally well. Having psychotic experiences and the resulting delusions is a serious psychiatric problem.

1/24/2016 10:18:26 AM God does exist!  

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (10,451)
Jacksonville, FL
75, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from aphrodisianus:
Here is an example of kb2222 using the word "incoherent". He uses words like "weird" and "ridiculous" coming from the same guy who babbles about aliens are telepathically communicating with him and that his book of nonsense is written by non-humans.

He provides a great deal of evidence he is not mentally well. Having psychotic experiences and the resulting delusions is a serious psychiatric problem.

Why don't you as a arrogant condescending egotistical atheist just explain how you believe inanimate matter such as a rock sprang into life? And while you are at it explain the CAUSE of the "Big Bang" theory that I assume you subscribe too?



[Edited 1/24/2016 10:21:54 AM ]

1/24/2016 1:35:13 PM God does exist!  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (24,999)
Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


Aphro thinks that everyone who disagrees with him is crazy. Oh, what a rational scientific mind he has!

1/24/2016 1:43:27 PM God does exist!  

aphrodisianus
Over 1,000 Posts (1,600)
Leander, TX
66, joined Oct. 2013


Quote from kb2222:
Why don't you as a arrogant condescending egotistical atheist just explain how you believe inanimate matter such as a rock sprang into life? And while you are at it explain the CAUSE of the "Big Bang" theory that I assume you subscribe too?


None of that has anything to do with your babbling about aliens telepathically communicating to your brain and of a urintia book of nonsense being written by non-humans.

You're not mentally well. Having psychotic experiences and the resulting delusions are a serious psychiatric problem.

1/24/2016 3:08:47 PM God does exist!  
cupocheer
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (184,295)
Assumption, IL
67, joined May. 2010


God does exist!

1/24/2016 6:06:40 PM God does exist!  

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (10,451)
Jacksonville, FL
75, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from aphrodisianus:
None of that has anything to do with your babbling about aliens telepathically communicating to your brain and of a urintia book of nonsense being written by non-humans.

You're not mentally well. Having psychotic experiences and the resulting delusions are a serious psychiatric problem.

So, you can't answer my questions. All you have is a serious psychiatric problem. You really are nothing but a arrogant condescending nutcase.

1/24/2016 7:21:57 PM God does exist!  

jrbogie1949
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (13,832)
Red Bluff, CA
67, joined Mar. 2009


Quote from kb2222:
Why don't you as a arrogant condescending egotistical atheist just explain how you believe inanimate matter such as a rock sprang into life?


not an atheist but is somebody claiming that a rock is alive?

And while you are at it explain the CAUSE of the "Big Bang" theory that I assume you subscribe too?


why would you ask an atheist such a question? why not ask a theoretical physicists? i'm neither obviously but my understanding is that nobody knows the cause of the big bang or what happened precisely at the time of the event. they have surmised for what evidence is available what has happened a few milliseconds after the event occurred and since. and of course we haven't a clue whether or not this was the first bang or the only one. nothing to say that there were not numerous bangs creating numerous universes. all we can observe is what we can observe and up till now we've observed only a very small part of this universe.

1/25/2016 9:44:25 AM God does exist!  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (24,999)
Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


It seems to me that nothing is as compatible as the big bang theory and the idea that God created the universe. God created the universe and bang! there it was.

1/25/2016 10:34:55 AM God does exist!  

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (10,451)
Jacksonville, FL
75, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from jrbogie1949:
not an atheist but is somebody claiming that a rock is alive?

Sorry, but I got carried away and should have left "such as a rock" out of my question. However, the question still stands and if you can explain it go right ahead.

why would you ask an atheist such a question? why not ask a theoretical physicists? i'm neither obviously but my understanding is that nobody knows the cause of the big bang or what happened precisely at the time of the event. they have surmised for what evidence is available what has happened a few milliseconds after the event occurred and since. and of course we haven't a clue whether or not this was the first bang or the only one. nothing to say that there were not numerous bangs creating numerous universes. all we can observe is what we can observe and up till now we've observed only a very small part of this universe.

I ask that question because this particular atheist is overbearingly arrogant towards believers and if he can't explain anything he is just showing that he is the mentally disturbed and deranged one. And you make my point. The big bang theory (which was theorized in an attempt to explain why galaxies are moving away from each other) has all the matter and energy in the entire vast universe suddenly exploding/expanding from a single infinitesimally small and dense point 13.8 billion years ago which on its face appears highly implausible.



[Edited 1/25/2016 10:35:32 AM ]

1/25/2016 10:55:12 AM God does exist!  

jrbogie1949
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (13,832)
Red Bluff, CA
67, joined Mar. 2009


Quote from kb2222:
I ask that question because this particular atheist is overbearingly arrogant towards believers and if he can't explain anything he is just showing that heit is the mentally disturbed and deranged one. And you make my point. The big bang theory (which was theorized in an attempt to explain why galaxies are moving away from each other) has all the matter and energy in the entire vast universe suddenly exploding/expanding from a single infinitesimally small and dense point 13.8 billion years ago which on its face appears highly implausible.


fine, so you ask the question because you're interest is in delving into elementary school yard bickering and not because you have an interest in furthering your understanding of how theoretical physicists describe the big bang. fair nuff.

it's quite common for religious folk to see the theory as highly implausible. it directly refutes the ideas in the bible, quoran and other religious scripture which must be taken on faith only. anytime you'd care I can refer you to several writings about the big bang and then perhaps we can have a civil discussion on the matter without childish antics from either of us.

btw, the theory wasn't conceptualized in order to explain why galaxies are moving away from each other. in fact they are all not. Andromeda is moving toward our milky way and will eventually collide with it. it was continued testing of the big bang theory that led us to discover years later that the universe is expanding.

1/25/2016 11:22:43 AM God does exist!  

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (10,451)
Jacksonville, FL
75, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from jrbogie1949:
fine, so you ask the question because you're interest is in delving into elementary school yard bickering and not because you have an interest in furthering your understanding of how theoretical physicists describe the big bang. fair nuff.

it's quite common for religious folk to see the theory as highly implausible. it directly refutes the ideas in the bible, quoran and other religious scripture which must be taken on faith only. anytime you'd care I can refer you to several writings about the big bang and then perhaps we can have a civil discussion on the matter without childish antics from either of us.

btw, the theory wasn't conceptualized in order to explain why galaxies are moving away from each other. in fact they are all not. Andromeda is moving toward our milky way and will eventually collide with it. it was continued testing of the big bang theory that led us to discover years later that the universe is expanding.

Appreciate the manner and tone of your response. I have somewhat read articles on the Big Bang Theory but I haven't run across how it could be possible for all the matter and energy in the entire vast universe to have suddenly exploded/expanded from a single infinitesimally small and dense point? What's your thoughts?



[Edited 1/25/2016 11:23:13 AM ]

1/25/2016 11:31:05 AM God does exist!  

jrbogie1949
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (13,832)
Red Bluff, CA
67, joined Mar. 2009


Quote from kb2222:
Appreciate the manner and tone of your response. I have somewhat read articles on the Big Bang Theory but I haven't run across how it could be possible for all the matter and energy in the entire vast universe to have suddenly exploded/expanded from a single infinitesimally small and dense point? What's your thoughts?


I haven't heard a theoretical theorist that knows precisely what happened at the moment of the big bang any more than you or I. the theory, like any scientific theory, simply tests what we can observe using the strict scrutiny of the scientific method. we've observed evidence from a few milliseconds AFTER the event occurred but none at the exact time of the bang or of course before.

1/25/2016 11:34:15 AM God does exist!  

jrbogie1949
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (13,832)
Red Bluff, CA
67, joined Mar. 2009


perhaps this explanation of what a scientific theory actually is will help;

Scientific theories are testable and make falsifiable predictions. They describe the causal elements responsible for a particular natural phenomenon, and are used to explain and predict aspects of the physical universe or specific areas of inquiry (e.g., electricity, chemistry, astronomy). Scientists use theories as a foundation to gain further scientific knowledge, as well as to accomplish goals such as inventing technology or curing disease. Scientific theories are the most reliable, rigorous, and comprehensive form of scientific knowledge. This is significantly different from the common usage of the word "theory", which implies that something is a conjecture, hypothesis, or guess (i.e., unsubstantiated and speculative).

1/25/2016 11:50:05 AM God does exist!  

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (10,451)
Jacksonville, FL
75, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from jrbogie1949:
I haven't heard a theoretical theorist that knows precisely what happened at the moment of the big bang any more than you or I. the theory, like any scientific theory, simply tests what we can observe using the strict scrutiny of the scientific method. we've observed evidence from a few milliseconds AFTER the event occurred but none at the exact time of the bang or of course before.

What "evidence" AFTER the supposed Big Bang has been observed (not speculated) but observed?

Still, how is it theorized by the experts that all the matter and energy in the entire vast universe suddenly exploded/expanded from a single infinitesimally small and dense point?

I understand that that is perhaps the only logical thing one can derive in support of the Big Bang theory but if its so implausible on its face it really supports nothing. Right?

1/25/2016 12:04:30 PM God does exist!  

jrbogie1949
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (13,832)
Red Bluff, CA
67, joined Mar. 2009


Quote from kb2222:
What "evidence" AFTER the supposed Big Bang has been observed (not speculated) but observed?

Still, how is it theorized by the experts that all the matter and energy in the entire vast universe suddenly exploded/expanded from a single infinitesimally small and dense point?

I understand that that is perhaps the only logical thing one can derive in support of the Big Bang theory but if its so implausible on its face it really supports nothing. Right?


i'm not going to relate the relatively small understanding that I possess on the theory. i'm simply not qualified. as I suggested earlier, there is an abundance of writings on the internet and elsewhere by folks far more credentialed than I on the topic. the very best in helping my understanding is Stephen hawking's, "the universe in a nutshell."

herein lies the problem with discussions on science in a religious forum. nobody is particularly more credible than anybody else. it's a dating site after all. as such it's not for me to decide plausibility other than relatively thinking in my own mind. for instance, from everything I've read I find IN MY MIND that the big bang is more plausible than my reading of genesis about creation. you feel otherwise, of course.

1/25/2016 12:17:32 PM God does exist!  

kb2222
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Jacksonville, FL
75, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from jrbogie1949:
i'm not going to relate the relatively small understanding that I possess on the theory. i'm simply not qualified. as I suggested earlier, there is an abundance of writings on the internet and elsewhere by folks far more credentialed than I on the topic. the very best in helping my understanding is Stephen hawking's, "the universe in a nutshell."

herein lies the problem with discussions on science in a religious forum. nobody is particularly more credible than anybody else. it's a dating site after all. as such it's not for me to decide plausibility other than relatively thinking in my own mind. for instance, from everything I've read I find IN MY MIND that the big bang is more plausible than my reading of genesis about creation. you feel otherwise, of course.

I didn't expect you to be an expert on the matter but when you say there is "evidence" for something I would think you should reasonably be able to say what it is and reference it. And being a reasonable person I would think also that you should be able to respond in a reasonable manner to what I said/asked instead of bowing out as you have. Give it a shot and respond to my post comments/questions as best you can.

No, I don't believe in the "mythical" story of creation in Genesis.



[Edited 1/25/2016 12:18:34 PM ]

1/25/2016 12:38:23 PM God does exist!  

jrbogie1949
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Red Bluff, CA
67, joined Mar. 2009


Quote from kb2222:
I didn't expect you to be an expert on the matter but when you say there is "evidence" for something I would think you should reasonably be able to say what it is and reference it. And being a reasonable person I would think also that you should be able to respond in a reasonable manner to what I said/asked instead of bowing out as you have. Give it a shot and respond to my post comments/questions as best you can.

No, I don't believe in the "mythical" story of creation in Genesis.


sure. here goes but you'd be better served to go to a more reliable source.. as I understand physicists have been able to measure the temperature of what they call the cosmic background radiation and by doing so certain matter, helium for instance occupied 20 something percent of the universe at 1 millisecond after the bang and has remained constant until today.



[Edited 1/25/2016 12:38:59 PM ]

1/25/2016 1:08:36 PM God does exist!  

kb2222
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Jacksonville, FL
75, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from jrbogie1949:
sure. here goes but you'd be better served to go to a more reliable source.. as I understand physicists have been able to measure the temperature of what they call the cosmic background radiation and by doing so certain matter, helium for instance occupied 20 something percent of the universe at 1 millisecond after the bang and has remained constant until today.

Well that's a hypothesis it would appear centered on supporting the Big bang theory but if there was no big bang what would the "cosmic background radiation" (which I understand is pretty much uniform) indicate/evidence? As I have read we really don't know what 95% of the universe (dark matter/dark energy) is but we "theorize" and "publicize" that all that we don't even know what it is came from a infinitesimally small and dense point 13.8 billion years ago. Amazing!

1/25/2016 2:53:27 PM God does exist!  

jrbogie1949
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Quote from kb2222:
Well that's a hypothesis it would appear centered on supporting the Big bang theory but if there was no big bang what would the "cosmic background radiation" (which I understand is pretty much uniform) indicate/evidence? As I have read we really don't know what 95% of the universe (dark matter/dark energy) is but we "theorize" and "publicize" that all that we don't even know what it is came from a infinitesimally small and dense point 13.8 billion years ago. Amazing!


you asked, I did my best to answer and you call it a hypothesis and laugh knowing full well that I told you that i'm not qualified to discuss this subject in depth. argue in your condescending manner till your heart's content with me or any atheist you wish here on a dating site but I can only repeat that if you really are curious about what accredited theoretical physicists say about the big bang or any other scientific theory it's yours to discover.



[Edited 1/25/2016 2:55:13 PM ]

1/25/2016 3:25:27 PM God does exist!  

kb2222
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Jacksonville, FL
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Quote from jrbogie1949:
you asked, I did my best to answer and you call it a hypothesis and laugh knowing full well that I told you that i'm not qualified to discuss this subject in depth. argue in your condescending manner till your heart's content with me or any atheist you wish here on a dating site but I can only repeat that if you really are curious about what accredited theoretical physicists say about the big bang or any other scientific theory it's yours to discover.

Don't take it personally. I'm not laughing at you. Its the absurdity of what scientists claim given they don't even know what 95% of the universe is but they claim it all began from a infinitesimally small and dense point 13.8 billion years ago is what I am laughing at. You don't accept the BB as fact do you?

1/25/2016 6:02:31 PM God does exist!  

jrbogie1949
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Red Bluff, CA
67, joined Mar. 2009


Quote from kb2222:
Don't take it personally. I'm not laughing at you. Its the absurdity of what scientists claim given they don't even know what 95% of the universe is but they claim it all began from a infinitesimally small and dense point 13.8 billion years ago is what I am laughing at. You don't accept the BB as fact do you?


no, I accept it for what it is. a theory. scientists haven't made any claims regarding the big bang. it's a theory that is continually studied and tested as new evidence is discovered. if you see that as an absurdity to be laughed at then you echo what most god fearing see in theories. again, were you conduct some of your own studies you might find some plausibility in their thinking. think about what you are saying here. that science hasn't been able to observe but five percent or so of the universe, how much is there to learn? that your learning has ended because you have faith in your beliefs is fine. be content in that but don't expect the rest of us to sit idle simply because we don't have all the answers.

again, this is the problem when discussing science with the faithful. science is about learning and discovery of the natural world but you rely on the supernatural for your learning which simply doesn't work in the scientific method.

1/25/2016 6:21:35 PM God does exist!  

aphrodisianus
Over 1,000 Posts (1,600)
Leander, TX
66, joined Oct. 2013


Quote from kb2222:
Don't take it personally. I'm not laughing at you. Its the absurdity of what scientists claim given they don't even know what 95% of the universe is but they claim it all began from a infinitesimally small and dense point 13.8 billion years ago is what I am laughing at. You don't accept the BB as fact do you?



And yet you take the voices in your hallucinations seriously as the alien non-humans who wrote a sci-fi book. Why not laugh at yourself.



1/25/2016 6:25:53 PM God does exist!  

rufftreasure
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (15,493)
Fairmont, MN
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He should laugh at himself, I know I do

1/25/2016 6:56:18 PM God does exist!  

kb2222
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Jacksonville, FL
75, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from jrbogie1949:
no, I accept it for what it is. a theory. scientists haven't made any claims regarding the big bang. it's a theory that is continually studied and tested as new evidence is discovered. if you see that as an absurdity to be laughed at then you echo what most god fearing see in theories. again, were you conduct some of your own studies you might find some plausibility in their thinking. think about what you are saying here. that science hasn't been able to observe but five percent or so of the universe, how much is there to learn? that your learning has ended because you have faith in your beliefs is fine. be content in that but don't expect the rest of us to sit idle simply because we don't have all the answers.

again, this is the problem when discussing science with the faithful. science is about learning and discovery of the natural world but you rely on the supernatural for your learning which simply doesn't work in the scientific method.

First off on another thread you said "Scientific theories are testable" and I replied.. "Well that certainly makes the Big Bang "Theory" a HYPOTHESIS. Secondly, To say scientists "haven't made any claims regarding the Big Bang" is ridiculous. There are many TV programs depicting the Big Bang occurring and what happened milliseconds afterwards and it is presented as scientific FACT which it is not. And thirdly, as I said "they don't even know what 95% of the universe (i.e. dark matter/dark energy) IS but they claim it all began from a infinitesimally small and dense point 13.8 billion years ago and that's pure untested speculation presented as a fact and my religious beliefs doesn't change this scientific misrepresentation at all.



[Edited 1/25/2016 6:57:49 PM ]

1/25/2016 7:52:49 PM God does exist!  

jrbogie1949
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Red Bluff, CA
67, joined Mar. 2009


Quote from kb2222:
First off on another thread you said "Scientific theories are testable" and I replied.. "Well that certainly makes the Big Bang "Theory" a HYPOTHESIS. Secondly, To say scientists "haven't made any claims regarding the Big Bang" is ridiculous. There are many TV programs depicting the Big Bang occurring and what happened milliseconds afterwards and it is presented as scientific FACT which it is not. And thirdly, as I said "they don't even know what 95% of the universe (i.e. dark matter/dark energy) IS but they claim it all began from a infinitesimally small and dense point 13.8 billion years ago and that's pure untested speculation presented as a fact and my religious beliefs doesn't change this scientific misrepresentation at all.


I replied to your testable post. you're in a circular argument now as you repeat yourself. i'll bow out now until you can come up with a different approach in making whatever point you're trying to make. it makes sense that you seem to get the bulk of your "learning" from tv programs. when you're ready for some real learning i'd suggest you might want to go to whatever sources the producers may have used in creating what seems to be misinforming you as regards to what scientists claim. or if you can reference here which scientists have made the claims you speak of it'll be a slam dunk for me to follow up.



[Edited 1/25/2016 7:54:38 PM ]

1/25/2016 8:41:24 PM God does exist!  

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (10,451)
Jacksonville, FL
75, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from jrbogie1949:
I replied to your testable post. you're in a circular argument now as you repeat yourself. i'll bow out now until you can come up with a different approach in making whatever point you're trying to make. it makes sense that you seem to get the bulk of your "learning" from tv programs. when you're ready for some real learning i'd suggest you might want to go to whatever sources the producers may have used in creating what seems to be misinforming you as regards to what scientists claim. or if you can reference here which scientists have made the claims you speak of it'll be a slam dunk for me to follow up.

Sorry, but I think the History Channel shows on the BB are reliable presentations of what the scientific community believes and these shows are presented as Fact and they are not fact or proven at all or even tested. I'm not in a circular argument with myself but with you. What "test" has proven the BB theory? What possible test could prove the BB theory? If you know then state it. If you don't know say so and stop being evasive and condensing.

1/25/2016 9:06:08 PM God does exist!  

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (10,451)
Jacksonville, FL
75, joined Apr. 2011


Corrected post spelling: bold

Quote from kb2222: Sorry, but I think the History Channel shows on the BB are reliable presentations of what the scientific community believes and these shows are presented as Fact and they are not fact or proven at all or even tested. I'm not in a circular argument with myself but with you. What "test" has proven the BB theory? What possible test could prove the BB theory? If you know then state it. If you don't know say so and stop being evasive and condescending.

1/25/2016 9:11:35 PM God does exist!  

jrbogie1949
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Red Bluff, CA
67, joined Mar. 2009


no theory can ever be proved.

1/25/2016 9:42:13 PM God does exist!  
cupocheer
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Assumption, IL
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Quote from jrbogie1949:
no theory can ever be proved.


Do you mean "no scientific theory can be proved", please?

If so, then that is correct: it can only be disproved.

1/25/2016 11:43:56 PM God does exist!  

ludlowlowell
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Panama City, FL
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I think the laws of mathematics, and certain laws of physics like the law of gravity have been proved.

Jr, actually my objection to the evolution hypothesis is not religious---the Cathokic Church has never condemned that hypothesis and, if I am not mistaken is taught as a hypothesis in Catholic schools (I went to public schools myself). Many good Catholics velieve in it. I don't categorically say it is false. I say that I don't believe that the very scanty scientific evidence for is enough for anybody to really believe in it. I say many people believe in it only as an excuse not to believe in God.

Do I opine ("opine" is a better word than "believe" in this situation) that various species change over time, including homo sapiens? Yes, most defininetly. Do I opine that homo sapiens evolved from another species? No, I don't. I say with Clara Pellar in the old eighties commercial---where's the beef?

1/26/2016 12:12:16 AM God does exist!  

asanb
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Sanbornton, NH
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Why do you think any of these questions of intellectual meat matter at all?
The only way to really know the answer is to raise yourself to another perspective, one of a higher consciousness where conjecture is replaced by seeing the truth for yourselves.
Other than that it is all vain intellectual wrestling, sound and fury signifying nothing.

Waste your lives arguing with the neighborhood dogs over the existence and veracity and number of angels dancing on a pin head. It's the same argument.
Does your theoretical understanding bring you peace?

1/26/2016 1:49:54 AM God does exist!  

ludlowlowell
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These questions matter because many people use the evolution hypothesis to assert that God does not exist.

1/26/2016 5:26:45 AM God does exist!  
cupocheer
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Assumption, IL
67, joined May. 2010


That's their theory, correct?

1/26/2016 6:33:22 AM God does exist!  

aphrodisianus
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Leander, TX
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
These questions matter because many people use the evolution hypothesis to assert that God does not exist.


Only uneducated and stupid people such as yourself who would believe in nonsense use it as an excuse. Consider religious delusions and hallucinations and other mental disorders are excused because they're Christian or Muslim for example.






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