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3/14/2016 11:55:23 AM |
Is urantia a christian sect in your opinion |
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followjesusonly
Kingman, AZ
87, joined May. 2012
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Eventually, Gardner comes to the science of the UB. If the UB really were an extraterrestrial revelation, it should accurately describe our universe. It fails this test miserably. The UB claims the universe is over one trillion years old; most scientists date it at about 15 billion years (186). The temperature it assigns to the sun’s surface is off by thousands of degrees (190); it falsely says that Mercury keeps the same face towards the sun (196). The UB teaches that humans have 48 chromosomes; it should be 46 (217). Atoms supposedly cannot possess more than 100 electrons; this “limit” was broken in 1955, as any periodic table will confirm (214).
Look at what you did, you copied and pasted. Why don't you post this in your own words like you want others to do for you?
And you're posting from a book that you haven't read, questions about another book that you haven't read, by a guy who admitted that he hadn't read The Urantia Book either (Gardner)
The chromosomes issue has already been answered. Where were you? Gardner says, "The UB teaches that humans have 48 chromosomes." It does not teach that and it does not say that. That's the answer. The answer is reading what the text says, not reading what you think it says or what you want it to say.
Gardner says, "The UB claims the universe is over one trillion years old; most scientists date it at about 15 billion years (186)
That's not an error. That's a difference of opinion. What difference does it make that "most scientists say"? Can they not be wrong? Does asserting that "most scientists say" magically turn conjecture into fact?
The Urantia Book does not say that Mercury keeps the same face toward the sun. It's a complex, compound sentence that needs to be read carefully.
No one has gone to the surface of the sun to measure it. No, seriously. And exactly where does the "surface" of the sun start? What is the "surface" of the sun made of? Stainless steel? Could we walk around on it if we had air conditioned space suits? What difference does it make what the temperature of the surface of the sun is? Is it practical information that you can use in your day to day life?
Kb & I have debated the chromosome to the point of we just can't agree, any input you have would be appreciated.
There's nothing to debate. The Urantia Book does not give the number of chromosomes. You have to read the text that's there, not the text you think should be there. Write your own Urantia Book and use whatever words YOU want to use.
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3/14/2016 1:44:56 PM |
Is urantia a christian sect in your opinion |
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olderthandirt20
Waldron, AR
69, joined Jul. 2014
online now!
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As Mick Jagger says, "You can't always get what you want." ("But if you try some time, you just might find, you get what you need.")
So you think you can ask the questions, AND dictate the manner in which you get the answers, is that right? Last night on The Simpsons, Marge said to Lisa, "The Ego has landed!" What a great line indeed.
No I know I can't dictate others response I can only ask not demand, if you don't want to respond honestly, that's up to each individual poster.
And the reason I posted the cut & paste was because It was what I read and it gave me reason to doubt the papers.
I thought you or others might want to address the issue, however if you choose to not give an honest answer that is your prerogative, it's no skin off my back.
I was sure you would be on the defencive after you were "forced to unblock" me.
As for your last post, that's fine like I said I can't force you to engage in the topic in an intelligent way nor would I wish to force anything upon you.
But thank you for your initial post in this thread.
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3/14/2016 3:34:13 PM |
Is urantia a christian sect in your opinion |
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followjesusonly
Kingman, AZ
87, joined May. 2012
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No I know I can't dictate others response I can only ask not demand, if you don't want to respond honestly, that's up to each individual poster.
And the reason I posted the cut & paste was because It was what I read and it gave me reason to doubt the papers.
I thought you or others might want to address the issue, however if you choose to not give an honest answer that is your prerogative, it's no skin off my back.
I was sure you would be on the defencive after you were "forced to unblock" me.
As for your last post, that's fine like I said I can't force you to engage in the topic in an intelligent way nor would I wish to force anything upon you.
But thank you for your initial post in this thread.
I engaged in the topic. I gave you all the answers to the issues that Gardner (not you) raised. If you want to ask the questions in your own words, feel free. Gardner has admitted that he did not read the entire book. He said there was no way he would ever do that. He had extensive correspondence (real paper letters) with many "Urantians" in the process of his book writing. I was one of them. I have his letters in my files. I copied (took a picture) of one of them and posted it here on DH when Asha was still here. He asked a lot of questions and got a lot of feedback. He ignored most of it. You have to understand who Gardner was. He was a professional debunker. He had no interest in The Urantia Book. It's like if you hire someone to paint your house. They don't care about your house, it's just a job. If Gardner was set to debunk you or what you believe, whatever that is, if anything, he'd debunk it. It was his job. That's what he did.
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3/14/2016 4:35:18 PM |
Is urantia a christian sect in your opinion |
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olderthandirt20
Waldron, AR
69, joined Jul. 2014
online now!
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Okay I have your answers thanks
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3/15/2016 10:43:20 AM |
Is urantia a christian sect in your opinion |
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nonstandard
York, PA
53, joined Jun. 2009
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I was playing nice with Cup, and next thing you know she blocked me
I'm guessing she wasn't having fun with that
That's a shame . Its the queens , that make the rules .
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3/15/2016 10:57:20 AM |
Is urantia a christian sect in your opinion |
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nonstandard
York, PA
53, joined Jun. 2009
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The wings that get stuck in the trap , will flutter like wings in a trap . Those that escape , create a brand new view .
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3/15/2016 11:39:32 AM |
Is urantia a christian sect in your opinion |
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rufftreasure
Fairmont, MN
60, joined Jun. 2014
online now!
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Well, she just disconnected from a queen:signlol:
Yes a shame
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3/15/2016 10:56:46 PM |
Is urantia a christian sect in your opinion |
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lmarcox3
Antonio de BiedmaMexico City
Mexico
32, joined Aug. 2015
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I can't stand that machine gun, emoticon
i just do it for the mere fun of it, nothing less, i'm serious right now not joking at all.
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3/15/2016 11:19:58 PM |
Is urantia a christian sect in your opinion |
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lmarcox3
Antonio de BiedmaMexico City
Mexico
32, joined Aug. 2015
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@ lmarcox3 Since you seem to be the strongest supporter in this thread for the urantia book I am curious how you reconcile the misstated facts contained in the book?
@Otd20, Let's see:
There are indeed contradictions & self-contradictions in URANTIA, a fact that @followjesusonly won't admit. The OT & NT in the bible have contradictions & self-contradictions too, we already know!.
OK. So how does one reconcile it: here's what happens. The self-contradictions have already been explained & clarified by Ernest P. Moyer in his free online & print book, The Birth of a Divine Revelation: The Origin of The Urantia Papers. Go see it if you will: http://world-destiny.org
As to URANTIA's science 'errors', URANTIA itself clarified that (adding at the same time that it itself has authoritative science, among other related things):
http://www.urantia.org/urantia-book-standardized/paper-101-real-nature-religion
4. The Limitations of Revelation
101:4.1 (1109.2) Because your world is generally ignorant of origins, even of physical origins, it has appeared to be wise from time to time to provide instruction in cosmology. And always has this made trouble for the future. The laws of revelation hamper us greatly by their proscription of the impartation of unearned or premature knowledge. Any cosmology presented as a part of revealed religion is destined to be outgrown in a very short time. Accordingly, future students of such a revelation are tempted to discard any element of genuine religious truth it may contain because they discover errors on the face of the associated cosmologies therein presented.
101:4.2 (1109.3) Mankind should understand that we who participate in the revelation of truth are very rigorously limited by the instructions of our superiors. We are not at liberty to anticipate the scientific discoveries of a thousand years. Revelators must act in accordance with the instructions which form a part of the revelation mandate. We see no way of overcoming this difficulty, either now or at any future time. We full well know that, while the historic facts and religious truths of this series of revelatory presentations will stand on the records of the ages to come, within a few short years many of our statements regarding the physical sciences will stand in need of revision in consequence of additional scientific developments and new discoveries. These new developments we even now foresee, but we are forbidden to include such humanly undiscovered facts in the revelatory records. Let it be made clear that revelations are not necessarily inspired. The cosmology of these revelations is not inspired. It is limited by our permission for the co-ordination and sorting of present-day knowledge. While divine or spiritual insight is a gift, human wisdom must evolve.
101:4.3 (1109.4) Truth is always a revelation: autorevelation when it emerges as a result of the work of the indwelling Adjuster; epochal revelation when it is presented by the function of some other celestial agency, group, or personality.
101:4.4 (1109.5) In the last analysis, religion is to be judged by its fruits, according to the manner and the extent to which it exhibits its own inherent and divine excellence.
101:4.5 (1109.6) Truth may be but relatively inspired, even though revelation is invariably a spiritual phenomenon. While statements with reference to cosmology are never inspired, such revelations are of immense value in that they at least transiently clarify knowledge by:
101:4.6 (1109.7) 1. The reduction of confusion by the authoritative elimination of error.
101:4.7 (1109.8) 2. The co-ordination of known or about-to-be-known facts and observations.
101:4.8 (1110.1) 3. The restoration of important bits of lost knowledge concerning epochal transactions in the distant past.
101:4.9 (1110.2) 4. The supplying of information which will fill in vital missing gaps in otherwise earned knowledge.
101:4.10 (1110.3) 5. Presenting cosmic data in such a manner as to illuminate the spiritual teachings contained in the accompanying revelation.
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3/15/2016 11:34:20 PM |
Is urantia a christian sect in your opinion |
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followjesusonly
Kingman, AZ
87, joined May. 2012
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marco says: "There are indeed contradictions & self-contradictions in URANTIA, a fact that @followjesusonly won't admit."
Where did he get that from? I have never said The Urantia Book was perfect or that it has no errors. marco makes a lot of these assumption errors and then he blurts them out just as if they are true. Please stop mentioning me in your posts. You don't have any idea what I will or won't admit. Don't make stuff up about people. It's not honest.
Anyway, he's all yours now, OTD.
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3/15/2016 11:46:33 PM |
Is urantia a christian sect in your opinion |
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lmarcox3
Antonio de BiedmaMexico City
Mexico
32, joined Aug. 2015
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As to the authoritative Science & History of URANTIA there is an entire website dedicated to that noble purpose, whose just one example is the following (as an aside i have read some but not all the Reports of its main author, Halbert Katzen):
http://www.ubthenews.com/topics/Pangaea1.htm
Pangaea to Plate Tectonics Report
(...)
Prepared by Halbert Katzen, J.D.
[Updated 4/21/07]
Pangaea to Plate Tectonics Summary
Not only does The Urantia Book say that the continents were once all connected as one land mass and that they broke up and then drifted apart, it also provides details about how this happened. Additionally, it addresses issues related to how various pressures affect the interrelationship of oceans, continents, the earth's crust, volcanoes, earthquakes, and mountain formation. Though the theory of continental drift had been around for a long time and some evidence in support of this theory had been developed prior to The Urantia Book's publication in 1955, the continental drift theory was very unpopular at the time of publication because scientists had not come up with an adequate explanation for how continents were able to move. In fact, seafloor spreading and plate tectonic theories, which brought continental drift theory into acceptance, had not yet developed.
Wikipedia puts it this way, "The acceptance of the theories of continental drift and sea floor spreading (the two key elements of plate tectonics) may be compared to the Copernican revolution in astronomy [when it was accepted that the planets move around the sun, not that everything moves around earth]. Within a matter of only several years geophysics and geology in particular were revolutionized. . . . What had been rejected for decades by any respectable scientific journal was eagerly accepted within a few short years in the 1960s and 1970s."
Going beyond a general description of the formation of the continents and mountain ranges, The Urantia Book also gives specific details about the sinking of a peninsula off the eastern coast of the Mediterranean some 33,000 years ago. Sonar technology had not developed sufficiently at the time of The Urantia Book's publication to provide a clear picture of the topography of the eastern Mediterranean basin. Today's more advanced sonar mapping reveals a topography between Cyrus and the coast of Syria that not only aligns with The Urantia Book's description, but also is located at the convergence of three highly active plates that produce an unusual crosscurrent of pressures. (Go to the Garden of Eden Report for a complete explanation about this now sunken peninsula.)
Pangaea to Plate Tectonics Review
[continued at the link above]
There are many more Reports thereon, go see them if you will!!!.
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3/15/2016 11:48:41 PM |
Is urantia a christian sect in your opinion |
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lmarcox3
Antonio de BiedmaMexico City
Mexico
32, joined Aug. 2015
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That's right, Rufft, I do it for fun!!!. . .
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3/16/2016 12:18:32 AM |
Is urantia a christian sect in your opinion |
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lmarcox3
Antonio de BiedmaMexico City
Mexico
32, joined Aug. 2015
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marco says: "There are indeed contradictions & self-contradictions in URANTIA, a fact that @followjesusonly won't admit."
Where did he get that from? I have never said The Urantia Book was perfect or that it has no errors. marco makes a lot of these assumption errors and then he blurts them out just as if they are true. Please stop mentioning me in your posts. You don't have any idea what I will or won't admit. Don't make stuff up about people. It's not honest.
Anyway, he's all yours now, OTD. OK but fjo is also being partially sincere since he wrote me privately that there was none in the following URANTIA self-contradiction (which you followjesusonly tried to fix with your own subjective 'explanation'):
35:1.2 In the universe of Nebadon the Father Melchizedek acts as the first executive associate of the Bright and Morning Star. Gabriel is occupied more with universe policies, Melchizedek with practical procedures. Gabriel presides over the regularly constituted tribunals and councils of Nebadon, Melchizedek over the special, extraordinary, and emergency commissions and advisory bodies. Gabriel and the Father Melchizedek are never away from Salvington at the same time, for in Gabriel's absence the Father Melchizedek functions as the chief executive of Nebadon.
158:1.6 It was about three o’clock on this beautiful afternoon that Jesus took leave of the three apostles, saying: “I go apart by myself for a season to commune with the Father and his messengers; I bid you tarry here and, while awaiting my return, pray that the Father’s will may be done in all your experience in connection with the further bestowal mission of the Son of Man.” And after saying this to them, Jesus withdrew for a long conference with Gabriel and the Father Melchizedek, not returning until about six o’clock. When Jesus saw their anxiety over his prolonged absence, he said: “Why were you afraid? You well know I must be about my Father’s business; wherefore do you doubt when I am not with you? I now declare that the Son of Man has chosen to go through his full life in your midst and as one of you. Be of good cheer; I will not leave you until my work is finished.”
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3/16/2016 1:00:50 AM |
Is urantia a christian sect in your opinion |
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followjesusonly
Kingman, AZ
87, joined May. 2012
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Still more crap from marco:
"OK but fjo is also being partially sincere since he wrote me privately that there was none in the following URANTIA self-contradiction (which you followjesusonly tried to fix with your own subjective 'explanation'):"
Please stop mentioning me in your goddamn posts. WTF is wrong with you? You're like the Tar Baby in Brer' Rabbit.
[Edited 3/16/2016 1:02:18 AM ]
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3/16/2016 1:02:44 AM |
Is urantia a christian sect in your opinion |
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lmarcox3
Antonio de BiedmaMexico City
Mexico
32, joined Aug. 2015
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URANTIA starts thus:
http://www.urantia.org/urantia-book-standardized/foreword
Foreword
Paper 0:0.1 (page 1.1) IN THE MINDS of the mortals of Urantia — that being the name of your world — there exists great confusion respecting the meaning of such terms as God, divinity, and deity. Human beings are still more confused and uncertain about the relationships of the divine personalities designated by these numerous appellations. Because of this conceptual poverty associated with so much ideational confusion, I have been directed to formulate this introductory statement in explanation of the meanings which should be attached to certain word symbols as they may be hereinafter used in those papers which the Orvonton corps of truth revealers have been authorized to translate into the English language of Urantia.
0:0.2 (1.2) It is exceedingly difficult to present enlarged concepts and advanced truth, in our endeavor to expand cosmic consciousness and enhance spiritual perception, when we are restricted to the use of a circumscribed language of the realm. But our mandate admonishes us to make every effort to convey our meanings by using the word symbols of the English tongue. We have been instructed to introduce new terms only when the concept to be portrayed finds no terminology in English which can be employed to convey such a new concept partially or even with more or less distortion of meaning.
0:0.3 (1.3) In the hope of facilitating comprehension and of preventing confusion on the part of every mortal who may peruse these papers, we deem it wise to present in this initial statement an outline of the meanings to be attached to numerous English words which are to be employed in designation of Deity and certain associated concepts of the things, meanings, and values of universal reality.
0:0.4 (1.4) But in order to formulate this Foreword of definitions and limitations of terminology, it is necessary to anticipate the usage of these terms in the subsequent presentations. This Foreword is not, therefore, a finished statement within itself; it is only a definitive guide designed to assist those who shall read the accompanying papers dealing with Deity and the universe of universes which have been formulated by an Orvonton commission sent to Urantia for this purpose.
0:0.5 (1.5) Your world, Urantia, is one of many similar inhabited planets which comprise the local universe of Nebadon. This universe, together with similar creations, makes up the superuniverse of Orvonton, from whose capital, Uversa, our commission hails. Orvonton is one of the seven evolutionary superuniverses of time and space which circle the never-beginning, never-ending creation of divine perfection — the central universe of Havona. At the heart of this eternal and central universe is the stationary Isle of Paradise, the geographic center of infinity and the dwelling place of the eternal God.
0:0.6 (1.6) The seven evolving superuniverses in association with the central and divine universe, we commonly refer to as the grand universe; these are the now organized and inhabited creations. They are all a part of the master universe, which also embraces the uninhabited but mobilizing universes of outer space.
[Edited 3/16/2016 1:03:23 AM ]
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3/16/2016 1:06:23 AM |
Is urantia a christian sect in your opinion |
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lmarcox3
Antonio de BiedmaMexico City
Mexico
32, joined Aug. 2015
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*
Still more crap from marco:
"OK but fjo is also being partially sincere since he wrote me privately that there was none in the following URANTIA self-contradiction (which you followjesusonly tried to fix with your own subjective 'explanation'):"
Please stop mentioning me in your goddamn posts. WTF is wrong with you? You're like the Tar Baby in Brer' Rabbit.
& also fjo is like this again: .
i don't want anything with him, really!.
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3/16/2016 10:16:52 AM |
Is urantia a christian sect in your opinion |
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rufftreasure
Fairmont, MN
60, joined Jun. 2014
online now!
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That's right, Rufft, I do it for fun!!!. . .
I just made a simple statement, and now, if you call shooting someone symbolically fun, and now you're shooting the Damn thing at me??
Now you've made it personal.
Even if only symbolically, you show your negative and murderous mind
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3/16/2016 10:21:56 AM |
Is urantia a christian sect in your opinion |
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rufftreasure
Fairmont, MN
60, joined Jun. 2014
online now!
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Well, you aren't very desirable ,yourself, sir.
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3/16/2016 6:15:48 PM |
Is urantia a christian sect in your opinion |
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lmarcox3
Antonio de BiedmaMexico City
Mexico
32, joined Aug. 2015
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I just made a simple statement, and now, if you call shooting someone symbolically fun, and now you're shooting the Damn thing at me??
Now you've made it personal.
Even if only symbolically, you show your negative and murderous mind Rufft, if that emoticon is here, it's because it's Fun. I'm not shooting at you, I'm shooting at Nothing & No one; just because I'm 'shooting' in the same line where your nickname is, doesn't make me negative or murderous. .
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3/16/2016 6:57:43 PM |
Is urantia a christian sect in your opinion |
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rufftreasure
Fairmont, MN
60, joined Jun. 2014
online now!
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I still don't like that emoticon or it's symbolism.
Here's some real fun, going out and shooting at inanimate objects like beer or beverage cans, with real guns......
In the words of a great singer, John Prine, " Cuz empty pop bottles , was all we could kill"
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3/16/2016 7:31:28 PM |
Is urantia a christian sect in your opinion |
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lmarcox3
Antonio de BiedmaMexico City
Mexico
32, joined Aug. 2015
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i kinda agree with you Rufft!.
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3/16/2016 9:09:00 PM |
Is urantia a christian sect in your opinion |
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rufftreasure
Fairmont, MN
60, joined Jun. 2014
online now!
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3/17/2016 12:42:44 AM |
Is urantia a christian sect in your opinion |
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lmarcox3
Antonio de BiedmaMexico City
Mexico
32, joined Aug. 2015
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.
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3/17/2016 7:18:56 PM |
Is urantia a christian sect in your opinion |
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masterweber
Baton Rouge, LA
33, joined May. 2013
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What opinion when all suppose to be obeying the reform mindset sound judgment act of God prefix legal allegiance justice system of obeying God eternal bondage laws of force mandatory lamentations instructions term order over genders entitlement of ground standard???
What is an opinion when I have to inherit eternal life?
Proverbs 18:1-8New International Version (NIV)
18 An unfriendly person pursues selfish ends
and against all sound judgment starts quarrels.
2 Fools find no pleasure in understanding
but delight in airing their own opinions.
3 When wickedness comes, so does contempt,
and with shame comes reproach.
4 The words of the mouth are deep waters,
but the fountain of wisdom is a rushing stream.
5 It is not good to be partial to the wicked
and so deprive the innocent of justice.
6 The lips of fools bring them strife,
and their mouths invite a beating.
7 The mouths of fools are their undoing,
and their lips are a snare to their very lives.
8 The words of a gossip are like choice morsels;
they go down to the inmost parts.
[Edited 3/17/2016 7:20:23 PM ]
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