God vs. "The God I Believe In"

3/9/2015 12:29:29 AM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
erikbenn Spokane, WA 41, joined Nov. 2010	I have notice posters here saying they have faith in "The God I Believe in". Here we're going to be talking about who God is verses who you want Him to be. "The God I Believe in" is a trap. When characteristics of God show up in the bible that we don't like, or we just can't, or choose not to believe it turns God into "The God I Believe in". Here are some examples to show what I am talking about. God -------- Told us He created man through the dust of the Earth. "The God I Believe in" ---------------------- Says God uses whatever tool, including evolution, to create man. God -------- He knows everyone everywhere and can and will reach them. "The God I Believe in" ---------------------- He seems to be neglectful and can't reach people in remote parts of the world. God -------- Told us He flooded the whole world. "The God I Believe in" ---------------------- Says the flood was local, even though no one knows where the local flood was. God -------- Says He sent His only begotton Son to die for our sins and save those who accept Him as Savior from Hell. "The God I Believe in" ---------------------- Says we can sin as much as we want and God will forgive us anyway, because His Grace is a gift. God -------- Says Jesus is the only way to Him. "The God I Believe in" ---------------------- Says there are many paths to God. God -------- Says there is a Hell and Satan exists. "The God I Believe in" ---------------------- Says there is no Hell and no Devil. God -------- Says to seek Him first in all things. "The God I Believe in" ---------------------- Doesn't care about our needs. (This one is one non-believers say in abundance.) God -------- Proves Himself to us through faith in Him. "The God I Believe in" ---------------------- Needs to be scientifically proven. God -------- Created the supernatural and natural world as well as everything in the universe and beyond. "The God I Believe in" ---------------------- created the natural world. God -------- Our Lord and Savior and wants a very deep and personal relationship with all of us. "The God I Believe in" ---------------------- Some mystical being. God -------- He sent His Son Jesus to everyone. "The God I Believe in" ---------------------- He sent His Son only to the Jews. God -------- Says only He knows the hour when Jesus will return. "The God I Believe in" ---------------------- Says it already happened in 70AD. I know there is so much more, but these are just examples of what I am talking about. Meet singles at DateHookup.dating, we're 100% free! Join now!
3/9/2015 8:38:39 AM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
Equalizer21 Seattle, WA 53, joined Oct. 2014	Says Jesus is the only way to Him. "The God I Believe in" ---------------------- Says there are many paths to God. They say many paths to God, and "ALL" get saved, some even believe the devil gets saved. who are they you ask? Hint: they post negative things about me....
3/9/2015 8:56:38 AM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
prophetic774 Winter Haven, FL 65, joined Feb. 2011	THE GOD I BELIEVE IN IS THE FATHER WHO LOVES HIS FAITHFUL SAINTS JUST AS MUCH AS HE LOVES JESUS WHO IS GOD THE SON!! John 17:23: Jesus says to His Father, "You sent Me and have LOVED THEM even as you LOVED Me!!" JESUS LOVES HIS FAITHFUL SAINTS JUST AS MUCH AS THE FATHER LOVES HIM!! John 15:9,10" Jesus says, "As the Father LOVED Me, so I have LOVED you!! Now remain in My LOVE. IF you obey My commands, you will remain in My LOVE, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in His LOVE!" John 14:21,23: Jesus says, "Whoever has My commands and obeys them, he is the one who LOVES Me! He who loves Me will be LOVED by My Father, and I will LOVE him....If anyone LOVES Me, he will obey My teaching. My Father will LOVE him, and we will come to him and make Our home with him!!" WHAT'S LOVEGOT TO DO WITH IT?? I Peter 1:22: "Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere LOVE for your brothers, LOVE one another deeply, from the heart. For you have been born again... through the living and enduring Word of God! I Corinthians 13:2,4-8: If I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not LOVE I am nothing...LOVE is patient, LOVE is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. LOVE does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. LOVE never fails!!" John 13:34: Jesus says, "A NEW command I give you: LOVE* one another As I have LOVED you, so you must LOVE one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples." Matthew 28:19.20” Jesus commands, “Go and make disciples of all nations... teaching them to OBEY EVERYTHING I have commanded you!” {See I John 2:3-5} EVERYTHING would also include all the other commands in God's inspired Word from Acts to Revelation as per 2 Timothy 3:16: 4:2: "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work...Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction." If we really LOVE our brothers and sister in Christ we will lovingly teach them to obey all the approximately 400 commands of the NT with LOVE in the hope of countless eternal rewards when Jesus comes with great power with all His angels. Revelation 22:112: Jesus says,"Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with Me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done!? Matthew 16:27: Jesus says, For the Son of Man is going to come in His FATHER'S GLORY WITH HIS ANGELS, and THEN He will reward each person according to what he has done." Ephesians 4:15: "Speaking the Truth in LOVE, we will in all things grow up into Him who is the Head, that is, Christ! From Him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in LOVE, as each part does its work." Ephesians 3:17-19: "I pray that you, being rooted and established in LOVE may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the LOVE of Christ, and to know this LOVE that surpasses knowledge--that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God!!"
3/9/2015 10:46:45 AM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
eastfoot Bossier City, LA 59, joined Jul. 2012	Hebrews 4:15, For we have not a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sinning. Psalm 104:20, Thou makest darkness, and it is night, when all the beasts of the forest creep forth. Holy Scripture uses the word 'woods' in reference to man's material existence and in its becoming overgrown with all sorts of passions where dangerous beasts make their lair – even though they remain powerless in the Light. The apple tree growing in the woods is similar to man's nature -- as it is tested in all things. And the reason the apple tree grows in the woods is because it is of wood. St. Gregory of Nyssa says, "But charm of the apple tree is harmoniously proportioned . . . it gives pleasure to the eye by its beauty, to the sense of smell by its fragrance, but also to the sense of taste by its nourishment." Therein lies the difference between ourselves and God. As Light, He is an object of beauty for our eyes (Romans 8:15, For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the spirit of sonship. When we cry, "Abba! Father!"), and He that eateth Him shall live (John 6:58, This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live for ever.) For God has no need of our goods, but rather we have need of His. (Psalm 18) Psalm 80:12-15, Why then hast thou broken down its walls, so that all who pass along the way pluck its fruit? 13 The boar from the forest ravages it, and all that move in the field feed on it. 14 Turn again, O God of hosts! Look down from heaven, and see; have regard for this vine, 15 the stock which thy right hand planted.
3/9/2015 2:50:05 PM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
walt_oftheearth Avondale, AZ 61, joined Feb. 2008	Very good & needful thread/ topic, Erik. Thank you
3/10/2015 12:52:45 AM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
erikbenn Spokane, WA 41, joined Nov. 2010	I have been away from the Christian Groups for awhile and have been mainly in the Religion forum. After seeing some of the posts in here it's easy to see why they call Christianity and exclusivity club. People need to know that God wants and loves them as much as the very good Christian person. [Edited 3/10/2015 12:54:50 AM ]
3/10/2015 7:11:50 AM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
Equalizer21 Seattle, WA 53, joined Oct. 2014	Quote from erikbenn: I have been away from the Christian Groups for awhile and have been mainly in the Religion forum. After seeing some of the posts in here it's easy to see why they call Christianity and exclusivity club. People need to know that God wants and loves them as much as the very good Christian person. Erik, Good point. If we are saved already, shouldnt this blessed assurance be ever present? John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. We have to abide in his love. When we dont keep his commands, we are not abiding in his love. No matter how much we psyche ourselves up we are saved. 1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. 1 John 4:12 No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us. First and foremost is to love God. then its to love the brethren. I love God first and foremost and i love his word. I have fellowship with the brethren as we keep his word and walk in the light.
3/10/2015 1:15:38 PM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
walt_oftheearth Avondale, AZ 61, joined Feb. 2008	Quote from erikbenn: I have been away from the Christian Groups for awhile and have been mainly in the Religion forum. People need to know that God wants and loves them as much as the very good Christian person. Yes. That is true. But some have a very hard, prideful shell that they will not give up. 1 Peter 5:5 God resists the proud, and gives grace to the humble. Greek for [God]"resists" .... to range in battle against Greek for "proud" ... showing one's self above others, despising others or even treating them with contempt, haughty (above sounds a lot like some posters in the religion forum) Greek for "humble" .... not rising far from the ground metaph. lowly, of low degree brought low with grief, depressed lowly in spirit, humble Interesting the Greek used in this verse for "humble" includes "grief," and depression" Many Christians who have much to learn yet, often judge a depressed person as being weak and without faith.
3/10/2015 1:41:53 PM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
thespian918 Hominy, OK 77, joined Nov. 2013	Quote from prophetic774: THE GOD I BELIEVE IN IS THE FATHER WHO LOVES HIS FAITHFUL SAINTS JUST AS MUCH AS HE LOVES JESUS WHO IS GOD THE SON!! John 17:23: Jesus says to His Father, "You sent Me and have LOVED THEM even as you LOVED Me!!" JESUS LOVES HIS FAITHFUL SAINTS JUST AS MUCH AS THE FATHER LOVES HIM!! John 15:9,10" Jesus says, "As the Father LOVED Me, so I have LOVED you!! Now remain in My LOVE. IF you obey My commands, you will remain in My LOVE, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in His LOVE!" John 14:21,23: Jesus says, "Whoever has My commands and obeys them, he is the one who LOVES Me! He who loves Me will be LOVED by My Father, and I will LOVE him....If anyone LOVES Me, he will obey My teaching. My Father will LOVE him, and we will come to him and make Our home with him!!" WHAT'S LOVEGOT TO DO WITH IT?? I Peter 1:22: "Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere LOVE for your brothers, LOVE one another deeply, from the heart. For you have been born again... through the living and enduring Word of God! I Corinthians 13:2,4-8: If I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not LOVE I am nothing...LOVE is patient, LOVE is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. LOVE does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. LOVE never fails!!" John 13:34: Jesus says, "A NEW command I give you: LOVE* one another As I have LOVED you, so you must LOVE one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples." Matthew 28:19.20” Jesus commands, “Go and make disciples of all nations... teaching them to OBEY EVERYTHING I have commanded you!” {See I John 2:3-5} EVERYTHING would also include all the other commands in God's inspired Word from Acts to Revelation as per 2 Timothy 3:16: 4:2: "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work...Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction." If we really LOVE our brothers and sister in Christ we will lovingly teach them to obey all the approximately 400 commands of the NT with LOVE in the hope of countless eternal rewards when Jesus comes with great power with all His angels. Revelation 22:112: Jesus says,"Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with Me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done!? Matthew 16:27: Jesus says, For the Son of Man is going to come in His FATHER'S GLORY WITH HIS ANGELS, and THEN He will reward each person according to what he has done." Ephesians 4:15: "Speaking the Truth in LOVE, we will in all things grow up into Him who is the Head, that is, Christ! From Him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in LOVE, as each part does its work." Ephesians 3:17-19: "I pray that you, being rooted and established in LOVE may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the LOVE of Christ, and to know this LOVE that surpasses knowledge--that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God!!" I love this!
3/11/2015 12:29:40 AM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
erikbenn Spokane, WA 41, joined Nov. 2010	Walt, Equalizer, God wants everyone. Not everyone will choose Him, but God wants everyone. He wants that no one should perish. Now we have people telling others that if you don't worship God in a certain way then you aren't worshipping God. I say let God be the one to tell us how He wants to worshipped. By the way, He already told us... it's in the bible.
3/11/2015 3:46:50 PM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 63, joined Oct. 2007	There is no "hell" in the bible... So far I have seen no evidence to the contrary of what I have already stated several times here. No one has been able to come forward and disprove these points. That includes erik here. 1. There is no Ancient term for the word 'hell' as we use it. Sheol Hades Gehenna Tartarus Which one did you think was hell? 2. There is no record of a 'hell' ever being created... CLV Gn 1:1 IN A BEGINNING Created by the Elohim were the heavens and the earth. This tells me that heaven and earth were created. There is no such record for a 'hell.' 3. The church says that 'hell' is separation from God... AV Ps 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou [art] there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou [art there]. Evidently there is no separating from God. 4. The Jews have no hell. Jesus was a Jew. As a Jew He was not taught about a hell. There is no hell in the OT. Don't believe me? Ask a Jew. 5. The word 'hell' is absent from the Tanakh. The Tanakh is the Scriptures of the Jews. It is the same books that we have in our English versions of the OT, just in a different order. The Tanakh was here long before English was even a language. 6. Just before the 12th century there was no such word as 'hell.' So says Merriam - Webster. That is well over 1000 years after Jesus left. 7. Man's 'punishment' for his disobedience in Eden in Genesis 3:17 to... CLV Gn 3:19 In the sweat of your face shall you eat your bread, till your return to the ground, for from it are you taken, for soil you are, and to soil are you returning." If God punished man once, what is the point of punishing him again with a 'hell?' 8. Finally, the Scriptures tell us that all mankind shall be saved. ALL, meaning everyone. Who shall be Saved? “For God locks up all together in stubbornness, that He should be merciful to all” (Romans 11:32). “Our Savior, God, Who wills that all mankind be saved and come into a realization of the truth” (1 Timothy 2:4). “We rely on the living God, Who is the Savior of all mankind” (1 Timothy 4:10).
3/11/2015 5:53:12 PM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
louie6332 Falkville, AL 73, joined Nov. 2011	BigD, we have been down this road before, but it was just so much water off a duck’s back, you shed facts like a duck's back sheds water. Does the Bible deny there is no Hell? NO. And OT Jews did believe in a place of confinement and punishment, whether you call it Hell or not, and so did Christ. Here is Christ denying there is a Hell: “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen, and he feasted sumptuously every day. And there was a certain beggar, named Lazarus, who lay at this gate, full of sours, desiring to be filled with the crumbs that fell from the rich man’s table, and no one did give him; moreover the dogs came, and licked his sores. “And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom [Abraham’s bosom, by the way, is Limbo, which is an area in Purgatory where souls are held without suffering, Purgatory surrounds Hell, which is located at the center of the Earth, and between the two is a chasm, a barrier of sorts, that separates them so that one cannot pass from one to the other]. And the rich man also died, and he went to Hell. And lifting up his eyes when he was in torment, he saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom: and he cried out and said; Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water to cool my tongue: for I am tormented in this flame. And Abraham said to him: Do remember that thou didst receive good things in thy lifetime, and likewise Lazarus evil things, but now he is comforted and thou are tormented. And beside all this, between us and you, there is fixed a good chaos; so that they who would pass from hence to you, cannot, nor from thence come hither. And he said: Then, father, I beseech thee, that thou wouldst send him to my father’s house, for I have five brethren, that they may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torments. And Abraham said to him: they have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. But he said: No, father Abraham: but if one went to them from the dead, they will do penance. And he said to him: If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they believe if one rise again from the dead” (Luke 16:19-31). Ops, wait a minute, Christ is not denying the existence of Hell here, he is confirming and describing it. And I don't care what you call it, Hell by any other name is still Hell. It does not matter what you call it, it exists. When Our Lord taught this lesson, no one from among the Jews questioned him about it, “Lord, what is this place you are describing?” They all knew exactly what it was, they did not have to ask. And you BigD, following the excommunicated word-game playing heretic Knoch, are interpreting THIS, which is spoken by Jesus, to mean there is no Hell. Good luck with that. Be warned that the existence of Hell does not depend on whether you believe it exists or not. I feel sorry for you. You are in a state of delusion and denial. You are a perfect example of those whom the OP refers to in this thread. You do not like the God of the Bible, so you remake him into a god more to your liking. You know, God is a God of love but not Justice, a loving God would never make a Hell or send anyone to it, all are saved, and on and on. But God is Just. The God you believe in does not exist. Louie
3/11/2015 11:47:14 PM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 63, joined Oct. 2007	Quote from louie6332: BigD, we have been down this road before, but it was just so much water off a duck’s back, you shed facts like a duck's back sheds water. Does the Bible deny there is no Hell? NO. And OT Jews did believe in a place of confinement and punishment, whether you call it Hell or not, and so did Christ. Actually this is the road less traveled. But you have never provided any evidence of your position that "hell" exists. All you have is your own interpretation of a parable, nothing more. How about some real proof? Like maybe the ancient word that "hell" comes from? Oh that's right. There is no ancient word for "hell." Isn't it your nap time?
3/12/2015 12:52:39 AM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
erikbenn Spokane, WA 41, joined Nov. 2010	Show me in the bible where it says there is no eternal punishment?
3/12/2015 11:07:57 AM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 63, joined Oct. 2007	Quote from erikbenn: Show me in the bible where it says there is no eternal punishment? The Bible tells us that there is no "eternal punishment" by ignore the word "eternal." Not every English version translates the Ancient Greek term 'aion' as eternal. Just as the Bible ignore the term Mickey Mouse, by doing so it tells us that there is no Mickey Mouse. The simple fact is that the Bible does not deal in "eternal punishment." CLV Jn 8:35 Now the slave is not remaining in the house for the eon. The son is remaining for the eon. YLT Jn 8:35 and the servant doth not remain in the house--to the age, the son doth remain--to the age; So it seems you have created a man-made list of untruths and blamed God for it.
3/12/2015 2:14:02 PM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
louie6332 Falkville, AL 73, joined Nov. 2011	BigD, you say to me: “All you have is your own interpretation of a parable, nothing more.” No, I didn’t interpret anything, all If did was quote the words of Jesus, and that troubles you. You are interpreting the words of Jesus to mean “there is no Hell”, which is exact opposite of what he said, he was describing the very place that we call Hell, and it does not matter what you call this place of confinement and fire and torment that he was describing, Hell by any other name is still Hell. BigD, Knoch guy, Christ is describing a place of confinement and flames and torment, but that is not “evidence” that Hell exists in your mind. (the eyewitness accounts of those who have died in life-after-death experiences is not "evidence" in your mind either). And since when is quoting Our Lord “interpreting” him? Oh, I know, I know, you think that Christ was just creating a totally fictitious story involving a totally fictitious place to teach a lesson. So, let’s see BigD, let us follow the second rule of exegesis and correlate what Jesus revealed in Luke 16:19-31, which I just quoted in full about the rich man in the fires of Hell begging for a drop of water for his tongue, with like passages elsewhere in the Bible to find the true meaning, to see whether it is fictitious or not, we will compare words of Christ with words of Christ (how’s that? For Christ does not contradict himself): “Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit shall be cut down and cast into the fire. Whereforth by their fruits ye shall know them. Not everyone who saith to me “Lord, Lord”, shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who doeth the will of my Father who is in Heaven, he shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven [this contradicts BigD’s Knoch doctrine that all are saved, or that all will be saved in the end]” (Mat 7:19-21). And again: “Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name?’ And I will say to them: I NEVER KNEW YOU, DEPART FROM ME YOU EVILDOERS (Mat 7:22,23). “And when the Son of Man shall come in his majesty, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit upon the seat of his majesty [the seat of Judgment]. And all nations shall be gathered together before him, and he shall separate them, one from another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, and the goats on his left. Then shall the King say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me to eat, etc….. (Mat 7:23-40) “Then he shall say to them on his left hand: ‘Depart from me, you cursed, INTO EVERLASTING FIRE THAT WAS PREPARED FOR THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGELS. For I was hungry and you gave me not to eat, etc… (Mat 25:41-46).” Need I go on BigD? Our Lord is teaching here and elsewhere a different Gospel than you and Knoch are teaching. Is God your God, or are you your own god, making up your own doctrine? Take it literally. Be a man, admit that you are wrong. Our Lord himself has revealed that "humility is the beginning of all conversions". It is never too late to humble yourself and admit that you are wrong, you can do it right here in this thread. Louie
3/12/2015 3:13:29 PM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 63, joined Oct. 2007	There is only rule you need to follow. In order to translate a word there must be an ancient word from which to translate. There is NO ancient word for "hell." It didn't exist when Jesus was here. It is a modern term that has no ancient counter-part. All you are doing is interpreting a few verses from a Bible that has been mis-translated. By the way, what Bible are you using? Are we to just accept the BS you have been piling on here? Get yourself right with God and then you will see the folly of your work. You are NOT His judge and you have no right to judge anyone here on Earth. CLV Mt 7:1 "Do not judge, lest you may be judged, Ignore His words at your own peril.
3/12/2015 11:11:09 PM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
louie6332 Falkville, AL 73, joined Nov. 2011	Christians don’t have to translate the Bible, it is already translated if you haven’t noticed. And I am not translating anything, or interpreting, I am just quoting Christ, which seems to bother you no end. The only time one needs to concern oneself with translation is when one thinks there may be an error in the translation. Christ describes a place of fire and torment and confinement for deceased lost spirits various times. And it does not matter what you call it, he describes it, various times. You can deny that words exist, but you cannot deny that God describes the place. And concerning judging, “Know you not that we shall judge angels ? how much more things of this world?” (1Cor 6:3). There are a lot more passages on judging, and if we correlate these, we get the admonition: “Judge, but judge rightly.” You are cherry picking from the Bible what you want to believe. No one can get through a day without judging, it is a part of life. A mother has to judge whether her child wrote on the wall with crayons when it denies doing so. A voter has to decide which politician to vote on, and so on. You cannot get through a single day without judging. And concerning which version you quote from, it normally does not matter which version you use, they typically say the same thing in different words. And there is not a single version that says that the place we call Hell does not exist. They all say there IS such a place. And Hell by any other name is still Hell, it is still the place of fire and torment and confinement described by Our Lord. If you want a version that says there is no Hell, you will have to re-translate the whole Bible, for when you change one verse, you end up having to change all verses to make it self consistent. Oh what a tangled web we weave, BigD, when first we practice to deceive. It is much simpler just to go with the truth. I typically use the Douay Rheims or the New American Bible. But among the Protestant sourced Bibles, I think the NET Bible is the most accurate. the God of the Bible, and the God you believe in are two different beings. Louie
3/13/2015 6:15:00 AM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 63, joined Oct. 2007	louie, it's really hard to take what you say seriously. Reading your posts is more like reading the comic page of the newspaper. Quote from louie6332: Christians don’t have to translate the Bible, it is already translated if you haven’t noticed. CLV 2Ti 1:13 Have a pattern of sound words, which you hear from me, in faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. Christians will be held responsible for what Bibles they promote. Only those of us who know how to follow instructions will have the truth. People like you will only have an interpretation of the truth. After all, that is what most Bibles are, an interpretation. Quote from louie6332: And I am not translating anything, or interpreting, I am just quoting Christ, which seems to bother you no end. Of course you are interpreting. You have not put down one "quote" yet. All we are getting from you is your interpretation of what Christ said. You are NOT quoting Christ's words. The fact is that there is no "hell" in the Ancient text. And since you have not been able to come up with an ancient term that means "hell" then I would have to say that your belief in a "hell" is not justified by the Scriptures. There STILL is not "hell" in the Scriptures.
3/14/2015 1:17:03 AM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
erikbenn Spokane, WA 41, joined Nov. 2010	Quote from bigd9832: There is no "hell" in the bible... So far I have seen no evidence to the contrary of what I have already stated several times here. No one has been able to come forward and disprove these points. That includes erik here. 1. There is no Ancient term for the word 'hell' as we use it. Sheol Hades Gehenna Tartarus Which one did you think was hell? 2. There is no record of a 'hell' ever being created... CLV Gn 1:1 IN A BEGINNING Created by the Elohim were the heavens and the earth. This tells me that heaven and earth were created. There is no such record for a 'hell.' 3. The church says that 'hell' is separation from God... AV Ps 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou [art] there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou [art there]. Evidently there is no separating from God. 4. The Jews have no hell. Jesus was a Jew. As a Jew He was not taught about a hell. There is no hell in the OT. Don't believe me? Ask a Jew. 5. The word 'hell' is absent from the Tanakh. The Tanakh is the Scriptures of the Jews. It is the same books that we have in our English versions of the OT, just in a different order. The Tanakh was here long before English was even a language. 6. Just before the 12th century there was no such word as 'hell.' So says Merriam - Webster. That is well over 1000 years after Jesus left. 7. Man's 'punishment' for his disobedience in Eden in Genesis 3:17 to... CLV Gn 3:19 In the sweat of your face shall you eat your bread, till your return to the ground, for from it are you taken, for soil you are, and to soil are you returning." If God punished man once, what is the point of punishing him again with a 'hell?' 8. Finally, the Scriptures tell us that all mankind shall be saved. ALL, meaning everyone. Who shall be Saved? “For God locks up all together in stubbornness, that He should be merciful to all” (Romans 11:32). “Our Savior, God, Who wills that all mankind be saved and come into a realization of the truth” (1 Timothy 2:4). “We rely on the living God, Who is the Savior of all mankind” (1 Timothy 4:10). This topic is not about Hell, Bigd, it's about who God really is compared to what people want Him to be.
3/14/2015 11:44:14 AM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 63, joined Oct. 2007	Quote from erikbenn: This topic is not about Hell, Bigd, it's about who God really is compared to what people want Him to be. Oh contraire... Quote from erikbenn: God -------- Says there is a Hell and Satan exists. "The God I Believe in" ---------------------- Says there is no Hell and no Devil. As long as you post these lies I will be here to set the record straight.
3/14/2015 4:10:12 PM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
erikbenn Spokane, WA 41, joined Nov. 2010	BigD, you can debate us humans all you want. It is useless, because it is God who set forth the rules, not us. There is no debate with God.
3/14/2015 6:05:41 PM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 63, joined Oct. 2007	Quote from erikbenn: BigD, you can debate us humans all you want. It is useless, because it is God who set forth the rules, not us. There is no debate with God. Interesting. Since "hell" is a man-made concept, and not Scriptural.
3/15/2015 1:16:13 AM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
erikbenn Spokane, WA 41, joined Nov. 2010	What do you have to support that it is a man made concept, BigD? The word "hell" may not be in so me translations, but eternal punishment is most definitely there. But, why waste your time debating with me, or others? It's not going to change God's mind about eternal punishment if you continue you to debate with me. The only way you will not be held accountable for your sins is if you accept Jesus as your Savior and repent your sins.
3/15/2015 9:43:02 AM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 63, joined Oct. 2007	No. There is no "eternal" punishment in the Scriptures. Show me "eternal" punishment in the Scriptures.
3/15/2015 10:05:40 AM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	Read the parable of Lazarus and the rich man and you will see that there most certainly is eternal punishment described in scripture.
3/15/2015 10:43:39 AM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 63, joined Oct. 2007	Quote from ludlowlowell: Read the parable of Lazarus and the rich man and you will see that there most certainly is eternal punishment described in scripture. There is no "eternal" punishment. Read my thread... The Rich Man and Lazarus... Literal or Figurative? https://DateHookup.dating/Thread-600953.htm The word "hell" has no Ancient term to trace back to. And the phrase "for ever" has been mis-translated by the (bisexual) KJV. aion/olan means "an age," not "for ever."
3/15/2015 5:48:22 PM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 63, joined Oct. 2007	But then confusing "hell" with an "eternal" punishment when they are two different things, would be irresponsible.
3/15/2015 9:38:42 PM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
erikbenn Spokane, WA 41, joined Nov. 2010	Jesus used parables to teach of literal things. The parable of the rich man and Lazarus is Jesus teaching people that there is a Hell. Luke 16:19-31King James Version (KJV) 19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
3/15/2015 11:06:31 PM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 63, joined Oct. 2007	Quote from erikbenn: Jesus used parables to teach of literal things. The parable of the rich man and Lazarus is Jesus teaching people that there is a Hell. There is NOTHING in the Scriptures that says Jesus used parables to teach literal things. The word "hell" did not exist in any form when Jesus was here. So it would be impossible for Him to teach about a "hell." Quote from erikbenn: Luke 16:19-31King James Version (KJV) You are using the Bisexual KJV? Do you support gay rights and bisexuals too? ******************************************************************* There are seven reasons why this story in Luke 16 can not be literal. 1. Although they lived on the Earth at one time, we are told that they are both dead. They could not be physically alive and physically dead at the same time. Yet even though they are dead they are both represented as alive in bodies. The tongue, eyes, and finger are all mentioned in this story. This proves that this story it to be taken figuratively, not literally. 2. Abraham is represented as alive. In Luke 20:27 Jesus tells us most plainly that Abraham is dead. He tells us that before God can once again be the God of Abraham, that Abraham must first be alive. The fact that Abraham is dead in Hades and awaits the Resurrection proves that this story it to be taken figuratively, not literally. 3. From Genesis to Revelation the Scriptures teach that the dead are asleep until the Resurrection. Those who limit this 'sleep to the body alone do so in direct contradiction of the statements made in the Scriptures. The sleep of death is present to us, according to the Scriptures, as the death of a person, not just his/her body. The Rich man and Lazarus are both represented to us as awake prior to the Resurrection. This little fact proves that this story it to be taken figuratively, not literally. 4. The account of the Rich Man and Lazarus upholds the authority and reliability of the writings of Moses and the Prophets. In these writings it is clear that the dead are dead and that the dead must be Resurrected before they can live again. Death is taught as the opposite of life, in the Scriptures. Furthermore, death is said to be of a person, not just a body. Often times the OT will express this as "he died," "she died'" or "they died." Abraham died in Genesis 25:8. Isaac died in Genesis 35:29. Joseph died in Genesis 50:26. David died in Acts 2:29. If what Jesus said about the Rich Man and Lazarus were to be taken literal, then we would have to discard everything that the OT says concerning the dead as unreliable. Moses and the Prophets must be discarded and the Divine Inspiration of the text must also be denied. However, if the words of our Lord are taken figuratively then the harmony and agreement throughout the Scriptures is preserved. 5. If what Jesus said was to be taken literally, this would contradict all that God had previously revealed about the state of Sheol and Hades. Sheol and Hades are the same word. The Ancient Hebrew term Sheol literally means unseen or unperceived. The Ancient Greek term Hades is the same word translated into Greek from Hebrew. We prove this by looking at Psalms 16:8-11 and then Acts 2:25-28. Here is what the Scriptures have to say about death... AV Isa 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can [not] celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth. CLV Isa 38:18 For the unseen is not acclaiming You, nor is death praising You, and those descending into a crypt are not looking forward to Your truth. And... AV Ps 6:5 For in death [there is] no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks? CLV Ps 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of You; In the unseen, who shall acclaim You? and... AV Ec 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do [it] with thy might; for [there is] no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest. CLV Ec 9:10 All that your hand finds to do, do with your vigor, For there is no doing or devising or knowledge or wisdom In the unseen where you are going. And check this one out... AV Ps 31:17 Let me not be ashamed, O LORD; for I have called upon thee: let the wicked be ashamed, [and] let them be silent in the grave. CLV Ps 31:17 O Yahweh, do not let me be ashamed, For I have called out to You. Let the wicked be ashamed; Let them be still in the unseen The nature of death is unmistakable here. The story of the Rich Man and Lazarus must be figurative if it is to conform to the rest if the Scriptures. Everything else Jesus said teaches that the dead do not live until the Resurrection. (Rev.20:4-6 & 11-15) 6. In Luke 16, after making it clear that the Rich Man and Lazarus have both died, the Lord immediately represents them as alive and possessing bodies. To take this literally would be to deny the need for Resurrection.
3/15/2015 11:17:07 PM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
erikbenn Spokane, WA 41, joined Nov. 2010	Quote from bigd9832: There is NOTHING in the Scriptures that says Jesus used parables to teach literal things. The word "hell" did not exist in any form when Jesus was here. So it would be impossible for Him to teach about a "hell." Jesus certain did use parables to teach literal things so that people could understand. Matthew 13:9-17 King James Version (KJV) 9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. 10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. 16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. 17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them. [Edited 3/15/2015 11:17:26 PM ]
3/15/2015 11:22:34 PM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 63, joined Oct. 2007	Quote from erikbenn: Jesus certain did use parables to teach literal things so that people could understand. That is YOUR OPINION ONLY. There is nothing in the Scriptures that tells us the story of the Rich man and Lazarus is literal. Quote from erikbenn: Matthew 13:9-17 King James Version (KJV) I would say that the mysteries of the Kingdom of God were not given to you. Or anyone who is using the Bisexual King's English version.
3/15/2015 11:25:06 PM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
Equalizer21 Seattle, WA 53, joined Oct. 2014	Quote from erikbenn: Jesus certain did use parables to teach literal things so that people could understand. Matthew 13:9-17 King James Version (KJV) 9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. 10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. 16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. 17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them. Mark 4:13 And He said to them, “Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables? If they cant understand that parable, how can they discern the rest? Jesus taught many parables, to understand literal things. In the parable of the sower it meant literally, how the sowing of Gods word works literally in peoples hearts and lives. 1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. [Edited 3/15/2015 11:25:37 PM ]
3/17/2015 1:32:25 AM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
erikbenn Spokane, WA 41, joined Nov. 2010	Quote from Equalizer21: Mark 4:13 And He said to them, “Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables? If they cant understand that parable, how can they discern the rest? Jesus taught many parables, to understand literal things. In the parable of the sower it meant literally, how the sowing of Gods word works literally in peoples hearts and lives. 1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. God wanted us to know things about Him. He did it parables so that people would understand, but not just the people of Jesus' day, but for all people of all times.
3/17/2015 5:50:00 AM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 63, joined Oct. 2007	Quote from Equalizer21: Jesus taught many parables, to understand literal things. I see he snuck the word "literal" into this explanation. The word "literal" is not Scriptural. It is NOT part of the pattern of sound words that Paul described. There is noting in the Scriptures that tells us any is "literal" or not. All this poster is giving us it his own opinion, nothing more. Just as erik did earlier. They are trying to manipulate the Scriptures to make them come out to mean what they want them to mean instead of what God is giving us. I am not interested in the opinions of these two men. Put up or shut up. Prove that the parable of the rich man is literal.
3/17/2015 11:48:33 PM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
erikbenn Spokane, WA 41, joined Nov. 2010	Quote from bigd9832: I see he snuck the word "literal" into this explanation. The word "literal" is not Scriptural. It is NOT part of the pattern of sound words that Paul described. There is noting in the Scriptures that tells us any is "literal" or not. All this poster is giving us it his own opinion, nothing more. Just as erik did earlier. They are trying to manipulate the Scriptures to make them come out to mean what they want them to mean instead of what God is giving us. I am not interested in the opinions of these two men. Put up or shut up. Prove that the parable of the rich man is literal. Does the word bible have to be in the Bible in order for you to believe it is a bible? Do you really have to have Jesus call it Hell in order for you to believe He was describing a literal place of eternal torment?
3/18/2015 4:02:41 PM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 63, joined Oct. 2007	There is no "eternal" torment in the Scriptures and there is no "hell." These are man-made concepts supported by mis-translations. “For God locks up all together in stubbornness, that He should be merciful to all” (Romans 11:32). “Our Savior, God, Who wills that all mankind be saved and come into a realization of the truth” (1 Timothy 2:4). “We rely on the living God, Who is the Savior of all mankind” (1 Timothy 4:10). But aren't you really asking, "Does it have to be in the Bible for me to believe it?" And, of course the answer to that is YES. But I am just following what Paul said... CLV 2Ti 1:13 Have a pattern of sound words, which you hear from me, in faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. Who have you been following? and don't tell me Jesus Christ because He never used the word "hell." Not once...ever.
3/18/2015 4:11:42 PM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 63, joined Oct. 2007	In my thread... How Judgment has changed https://DateHookup.dating/Thread-707758.htm I show how the JKV changed the word "judgment" to "condemnation and damnation," giving us the false impression that we are all already judged and condemned. Here are examples of how the term 'judgment' got changed into 'damnation'... CLV Matt 23:33 "Serpents! Progeny of vipers! How may you be fleeing from the judging of Gehenna? AV Matt 23:33 [Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Notice how that word "hell" is woven into this verse? Here are examples of how the term 'judgment' got changed into 'condemnation'... CLV John 5:24 "Verily, verily, I am saying to you that he who is hearing My word and believing Him Who sends Me, has life eonian and is not coming into judging, but has proceeded out of death into life. AV John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. The (bisexual) JKV changes the word "judging" to condemnation/damnation a total of 13 times. This cannot be a coincidence nor a mistake. This must have been deliberate. I have cited MANY other changes similar to this in some of my other threads An example might be... Some facts about King James and his version https://DateHookup.dating/Thread-1180869.htm Here we explore some of the facts regarding King James himself and some of the rules he imposed on his English version.
3/18/2015 4:23:39 PM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	Bigd, why on earth would Jesus tell a story about everlasting fire in Hell if there wasn't such a place?
3/18/2015 4:59:43 PM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
prophetic774 Winter Haven, FL 65, joined Feb. 2011	One thing for sure Ellen White and all her followers are BACKWARDS and when Jesus comes again they will not be falling UPWARDS!! John 12:48: Jesus says, "There is a Judge for the one who does not accept My Words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him on the Last Day." The 7th day Adventists believe as per Ellen White's teaching in the very Satanic doctrine of Annihilation instead of eternal torment in hell. Jesus said 7 times in the New Testament that there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth in hell in Matthew 8:12; 13:42; 13:50; 22:13; 24:51; 25:30 and Luke 13:28. Matthew 13:43: Jesus says, "As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will weed out of His kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be WEEPING and GNASHING of TEETH. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear!!" Interesting Qestion: How can someone weep and gnash his teeth if he has been annihilated ??? Revelation 14:9-11: If anyone worships the Beast {666} and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury...He will be tormented with burning sulfur ... and the smoke of their torment rises FOR EVER AND EVER.. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the Beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name. Revelation 19:19,20; 20:10: But the Beast will be captured and with him the False Prophet, who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf {See Rev 13:10-17]. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the Beast and worshipped his image. The two of them were thrown ALIVE into the firy lake of burning sulfur....And the Devil who deceived them, will be thrown alive into the lake of burning sulfur, where the Beast and the False Prophet had been thrown. They will be TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOR EVER AND EVER !! Revelation 22:16,18,19: "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to give you this testimoney for the churches..I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book. If anyone ADDS{Like the SDA} anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book {Including eternal hell DAY AND NIGHT FOR EVER AND EVER} And if anyone TAKES WORDS AWAY* {Like Ellen White and the SDA} from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of Life and in the Holy City {The New Jerusalem}, which are described in this book."
3/18/2015 5:31:15 PM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 63, joined Oct. 2007	He didn't. You only interpret it that way.
3/19/2015 3:02:37 AM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
erikbenn Spokane, WA 41, joined Nov. 2010	I will reiterate that it doesn't matter what any human being says. God made the rules. God told us we will perish if we do not accept Jesus as our Savior. And we can make all the excuses we want, but in the end it doesn't matter. God will not change His mind. Bigd, you can debate me all you want, but it will never matter what you, or I say, because neither one of us made the rules. God set the rules and God is the one who you have to contend with, not me.
3/19/2015 6:06:43 AM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 63, joined Oct. 2007	And I will reiterate that what you are pushing is your own beliefs and interpretation. The word "hell" is NOT Scriptural. And there is no mention of "eternal" punishment. You can make all the excuses you want but God will NOT change His Mind. Who shall be Saved? “For God locks up all together in stubbornness, that He should be merciful to all” (Romans 11:32). “Our Savior, God, Who wills that all mankind be saved and come into a realization of the truth” (1 Timothy 2:4). “We rely on the living God, Who is the Savior of all mankind” (1 Timothy 4:10). You can debate me all you like but in the end you are only debating what God said in the Scriptures. Get rid of that bisexual king's English version and get yourself a real Bible.
3/19/2015 7:17:29 AM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
a_nubian Columbus, OH 52, joined Jan. 2011 online now!	Quote from prophetic774: One thing for sure Ellen White and all her followers are BACKWARDS and when Jesus comes again they will not be falling UPWARDS!! John 12:48: Jesus says, "There is a Judge for the one who does not accept My Words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him on the Last Day." The 7th day Adventists believe as per Ellen White's teaching in the very Satanic doctrine of Annihilation instead of eternal torment in hell. No'the lie you have been told that people burn forever. That SATANIC lie that people burn ever has cause more people to turn their back on God. That SATANIC lie was used by Christians to scare people into heaven. So what's the point of God roasting people forever? So 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70 and up years of life that wasn't given to God results in burning forever? Tell you what Prophet read the book, "The Fire that Consumes" by Edward Fudge. He is NOT Seventh Day Adventist and after reading the bible himself he concluded that there is no eternal hell fire. I swear if wasn't for my understanding of some biblical truths I would want nothing to do with Christianity for their erroneous teachings. And the SATANITC LIE THAT PEOPLE BURN FOREVER is on the top of the list.
3/19/2015 4:33:21 PM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
prophetic774 Winter Haven, FL 65, joined Feb. 2011	a_nubian when you quoted me on eternal hell you completely forgot to include the many verses in God's Word which completely contradicts the Satanic annihilation theory of Ellen White and the SDA or SAD. If you would comment on the verses below I would then feel you believe in following ALL of God's inspired words. Possibly the reason that the SDA or SAD believes in Annihilation is because they know they are ALL going to hell!!!! Jesus said 7 times in the New Testament that there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth in hell in Matthew 8:12; 13:42; 13:50; 22:13; 24:51; 25:30 and Luke 13:28. Matthew 13:43: Jesus says, "As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will weed out of His kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be WEEPING and GNASHING of TEETH. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear!!" Interesting Qestion: How can someone weep and gnash his teeth if he has been annihilated ??? Revelation 14:9-11: If anyone worships the Beast {666} and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury...He will be tormented with burning sulfur ... and the smoke of their torment rises FOR EVER AND EVER.. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the Beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name. Revelation 19:19,20; 20:10: But the Beast will be captured and with him the False Prophet, who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf {See Rev 13:10-17]. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the Beast and worshipped his image. The two of them were thrown ALIVE into the firy lake of burning sulfur....And the Devil who deceived them, will be thrown alive into the lake of burning sulfur, where the Beast and the False Prophet had been thrown. They will be TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOR EVER AND EVER !! Revelation 22:16,18,19: "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to give you this testimoney for the churches..I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book. If anyone ADDS{Like the SDA} anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book {Including eternal hell DAY AND NIGHT FOR EVER AND EVER} And if anyone TAKES WORDS AWAY* {Like Ellen White and the SDA} from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of Life and in the Holy City {The New Jerusalem}, which are described in this book."
3/19/2015 7:33:53 PM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
walt_oftheearth Avondale, AZ 61, joined Feb. 2008	Quote from a_nubian: No'the lie you have been told that people burn forever. That SATANIC lie that people burn ever has cause more people to turn their back on God. That SATANIC lie was used by Christians to scare people into heaven. So what's the point of God roasting people forever? So 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70 and up years of life that wasn't given to God results in burning forever? Tell you what Prophet read the book, "The Fire that Consumes" by Edward Fudge. He is NOT Seventh Day Adventist and after reading the bible himself he concluded that there is no eternal hell fire. I swear if wasn't for my understanding of some biblical truths I would want nothing to do with Christianity for their erroneous teachings. And the SATANITC LIE THAT PEOPLE BURN FOREVER is on the top of the list. I agree. Most evangelical Christians, and also Catholics, are not aware of the pagan origins of the belief in the immortality of the soul. The weight of scripture is clear on "the soul that sinneth, it shall die." And that is not only a physical death, but a spiritual, eternal one. Eternal life is a gift, the scriptures state. The only way to that life is through Christ. It would be monstrous of God to grant eternal life to an unbelieving person only so that He could torture them in flames forever. This is a doctrine of demons.
3/19/2015 7:41:16 PM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
a_nubian Columbus, OH 52, joined Jan. 2011 online now!	Quote from walt_oftheearth: I agree. Most evangelical Christians, and also Catholics, are not aware of the pagan origins of the belief in the immortality of the soul. The weight of scripture is clear on "the soul that sinneth, it shall die." And that is not only a physical death, but a spiritual, eternal one. Eternal life is a gift, the scriptures state. The only way to that life is through Christ. It would be monstrous of God to grant eternal life to an unbelieving person only so that He could torture them in flames forever. This is a doctrine of demons.
3/19/2015 8:03:38 PM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
Equalizer21 Seattle, WA 53, joined Oct. 2014	walt said:This is a doctrine of demons. I disagree Walt, it was sent by Gods angels, not demons. Rev 14 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.” vs 11 clearly states, they have no rest day or night, this includes the devil and his angels. It would be monstrous of God to grant eternal life to an unbelieving person only so that He could torture them in flames forever. Walt, brother, am i mistaken but didnt God create the devil and his angels? Are they not unbelievers also? We can make up all kinds of word pictures, and mental ideas, and philosophies about God. The word shows us who he is without a doubt. Some people take a scripture here or there and paint word pictures of their imagination of God. However the word has to be rightly divided. God is not a monster, when he told people in advance this would happen if you do this or that.......I am sure the devil and his angels that now work in the sons of disobedience,knew of the consequence of rebellion beforehand. smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever Now that might be debated as far as does it mean eternity? However i guarantee its for a long long time.....
3/19/2015 9:29:51 PM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
walt_oftheearth Avondale, AZ 61, joined Feb. 2008	Quote from a_nubian: No'the lie you have been told that people burn forever. That SATANIC lie that people burn ever has cause more people to turn their back on God. That SATANIC lie was used by Christians to scare people into heaven. So what's the point of God roasting people forever? So 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70 and up years of life that wasn't given to God results in burning forever? Tell you what Prophet read the book, "The Fire that Consumes" by Edward Fudge. He is NOT Seventh Day Adventist and after reading the bible himself he concluded that there is no eternal hell fire. I swear if wasn't for my understanding of some biblical truths I would want nothing to do with Christianity for their erroneous teachings. And the SATANITC LIE THAT PEOPLE BURN FOREVER is on the top of the list. There are a few proof texts used by those who (for reasons I can not fathom) want to believe God would do such a thing, but they are few. The preponderance of scripture is clear about the subject. The last chapter of the Old Testament prophetic book of Malachi states what will become of the wicked. "Ashes under the soles of our feet," he wrote. Ashes don't burn.
3/19/2015 9:55:28 PM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
Equalizer21 Seattle, WA 53, joined Oct. 2014	Quote from walt_oftheearth: There are a few proof texts used by those who (for reasons I can not fathom) want to believe God would do such a thing, but they are few. The preponderance of scripture is clear about the subject. The last chapter of the Old Testament prophetic book of Malachi states what will become of the wicked. "Ashes under the soles of our feet," he wrote. Ashes don't burn. Walt Again, this is an issue of rightly dividing the word. In Malachia, its talking about those in the millennial reign on earth, who tread the earth. The new heaven and earth will be after the millennial reign. You wont see the wicked there, in the millennial because they are ashes, but then becomes the question of are they asleep?. Then from those people who make it to the millennial reign, Satan will tempt multitudes to rebel with him. They obviously loved Jesus before, but then when its in real life, they turn on him. [Edited 3/19/2015 9:58:05 PM ]
3/19/2015 10:15:13 PM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
walt_oftheearth Avondale, AZ 61, joined Feb. 2008	Quote from Equalizer21: Walt Again, this is an issue of rightly dividing the word. In Malachia, its talking about those in the millennial reign on earth, who tread the earth. The new heaven and earth will be after the millennial reign. You wont see the wicked there, in the millennial because they are ashes, but then becomes the question of are they asleep?. Then from those people who make it to the millennial reign, Satan will tempt multitudes to rebel with him. They obviously loved Jesus before, but then when its in real life, they turn on him. Malachi 4 speaks of the Great, and awesome Day of the Lord--Jesus promised return in glory, from the skies, where every eye shall see Him. Malachi 4 states "all the arrogant and all evildoers will be stubble." All, not some. There is nothing figurative or symbolic about the language used. It is literal. It appears from this that the wicked, alive on earth at the 2nd coming, will be consumed twice: once at the 2nd coming, and then again in the 2nd resurrection,... which you alluded to when you wrote Satan will "tempt multitudes to rebel with him," against the New Jerusalem," which John describes in Rev 21, as coming down from God out of Heaven. If you recall, it states that fire came down from Heaven and devoured them. Not set ablaze forever. Devoured. There could never be a place in the New Heavens and New Earth, because John heard God say "There shall be NO MORE PAIN." (Rev 21)
3/19/2015 10:25:20 PM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
walt_oftheearth Avondale, AZ 61, joined Feb. 2008	Correction: There could never be a place in the New Heavens and New Earth, where there is a place of "eternal torment" because John heard God say "There shall be NO MORE PAIN." (Rev 21) There can not--at the same time--be people burning forever somewhere and there be "no more pain."
3/19/2015 10:39:38 PM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
Equalizer21 Seattle, WA 53, joined Oct. 2014	It appears from this that the wicked, alive on earth at the 2nd coming, will be consumed twice: once at the 2nd coming, and then again in the 2nd resurrection,. That is correct Walt, the ashes are dead bodies, who souls are being held, till the end for the great Judgement at the throne, they will be resurrected along with their bodies. Then cast alive into the fire. So you wrongly used ashes under feet as saying they were dead and not being tormented in the lake of fire. If you recall, it states that fire came down from Heaven and devoured them. Not set ablaze forever. Devoured. Again, it was a Judgement preceeding the great white throne judgement. So they are consumed with fire, and reanimated again to face the great white throne judgement. then they are cast alive into the lake of fire. There could never be a place in the New Heavens and New Earth, because John heard God say "There shall be NO MORE PAIN." (Rev 21) Yes no more pain for those who made it to the new heaven and earth. Those who obtained the promises of no more pain being with him. Some think this is happening in eternity, in ISaiah 66: isaiah 66 22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord. 24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. Matthew 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Where is outer darkness?
3/19/2015 10:48:28 PM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
Equalizer21 Seattle, WA 53, joined Oct. 2014	Quote from walt_oftheearth: Correction: There could never be a place in the New Heavens and New Earth, where there is a place of "eternal torment" because John heard God say "There shall be NO MORE PAIN." (Rev 21) There can not--at the same time--be people burning forever somewhere and there be "no more pain." No more Pain for the believer who obtained Gods promises, by grace THROUGH FAITH. That is correct. Rev 20: 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Along with those who take the mark. So walt, how long is forever and ever??? Its a very good study. So the above verse happens at the end of the millennnial, at the great white throne judgement........and it says forever and ever...... Then the new heavens and earth come, at the start of the forever and ever.
3/19/2015 11:17:05 PM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
walt_oftheearth Avondale, AZ 61, joined Feb. 2008	Quote from Equalizer21: No more Pain for the believer who obtained Gods promises, by grace THROUGH FAITH. That is correct. Rev 20: 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Along with those who take the mark. So walt, how long is forever and ever??? Its a very good study. So the above verse happens at the end of the millennnial, at the great white throne judgement........and it says forever and ever...... Then the new heavens and earth come, at the start of the forever and ever. Revelation 20:10 is indeed a study. But humans cannot have immortality unless God gives it to them. Paul writes, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23). In I Corinthians 15:53 Paul tells the saints, "This corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." God will give "eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good, seek for glory, honor, and immortality" (Romans 2:7). QUESTION for ya: If we already had immortality, why should we put it on or seek it?
3/19/2015 11:24:36 PM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
Equalizer21 Seattle, WA 53, joined Oct. 2014	Quote from walt_oftheearth: Revelation 20:10 is indeed a study. But humans cannot have immortality unless God gives it to them. Paul writes, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23). In I Corinthians 15:53 Paul tells the saints, "This corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." God will give "eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good, seek for glory, honor, and immortality" (Romans 2:7). QUESTION for ya: If we already had immortality, why should we put it on or seek it? Walt Immortality is for the believer, For the unbeliever its a whole other ball game. Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 2 different set of promises, for 2 different sets of peoples. You cant co-mingle the two and make a doctrine out of it..... Unbeliever gets : Indignation Wrath Tribulation Anguish Torment No rest Day and night forever and ever.
3/20/2015 12:02:12 AM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
joyusall2 Queensland Australia 69, joined Oct. 2011	First U got to want Life mate Seems like we got Life Term right Now Huh? IMO pride probably leads to every other sin---- Why No one worries about the authority of Jesus I will never Know---- As my hubby use to say U believe me last--- Maybe because he was quiet unassuming --- But when my hubby did speak--- U had better listen cause something was up--- He did Not waste words--- as I often do--- but Jim was so far ahead of me ---How childish I was Was It Jimi Hendrix who said As long as people Love Power instead of the Power of Love we all will stay in this condition (not exact words) My heart is turning to stone I remember a post by someone who said the same thing I understand now His post was--- (not exact words) with my hand placed on my heart of stone Is that the same as dead--- Australia has a dead heart why does It beat I have No idea Mate
3/20/2015 12:48:37 AM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
erikbenn Spokane, WA 41, joined Nov. 2010	Bigd, Romans 11 and Romans 12 are chapters telling us that no one is greater than God, and of the kind of people that God wants us to be. Romans 11 King James Version (KJV) 11 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying, 3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. 7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day. 9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them: 10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway. 11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. 33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! 34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? 35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? 36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen. Romans 12 King James Version (KJV) 12 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. 3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. 4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: 5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. 6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; 7 Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching; 8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness. 9 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good. 10 Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another; 11 Not slothful in business; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord; 12 Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer; 13 Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality. 14 Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not. 15 Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep. 16 Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits. 17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. 18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. 19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. 20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. 21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
3/20/2015 7:52:41 AM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 63, joined Oct. 2007	Quote from erikbenn: Bigd, Romans 11 and Romans 12 are chapters telling us that no one is greater than God, and of the kind of people that God wants us to be. So much you have got confused. First off, why are you still using that bisexual king's English version? Are you supporting Gay Rights here? Do you think it is natural for men to "lay with other men"? CLV Lv 20:13 As for a man who lies with a male as if going to bed with a woman, they do an abhorrence. The two of them shall be put to death, yea death; their bloodguilt will be on them. And you still think you can get an accurate version under the bisexual king's jurisdiction? Do you even know the rules that this bisexual king imposed on his translators? So much to learn. The portion of Scripture that you are posting here relates to Israel and not the gentiles. CONCILIATION NATIONAL 1 It would seem from the foregoing that God was through with His ancient and beloved people and was thrusting them away. But the apostle hastens to deny this assumption. God is not thrusting away His people whom He foreknew. Their apostasy is only in part, and the term of it is temporary. That not all of Israel are thrust away is evident from his own case. He, of all Israelites, most deserved to be thrust from God's presence and blessing. Yet he is not included in the national defection. And he is not alone. Elijah thought that he was the only one in all Israel who did not bow the knee to Baal. But God, in His sovereign dealings, restrains seven thousand from worshiping the idol. Neither was Paul alone, for there was then, as always, a remnant reserved by God. These, however, are not those who are more faithful than the rest, or more deserving than the mass of the nation. If it had not been for God's choice in grace, there never would have been a remnant. Are you of Israel's descent? If not you are trying to mix up the rules. 2 sets of rules. 2 teams... CLV Ga 2:7 But, on the contrary, perceiving that I have been entrusted with the evangel of the Uncircumcision, CLV Ga 2:8 according as Peter of the Circumcision (for He Who operates in Peter for the apostleship of the Circumcision operates in me also for the nations), First you are trying to insert the word "literal" into the Bible, now you are following a bisexual king. Get yourself a real Bible and get rid of that bisexual king's disaster. [Edited 3/20/2015 7:54:02 AM ]
3/20/2015 9:12:43 AM	God vs. "The God I Believe In"
Equalizer21 Seattle, WA 53, joined Oct. 2014	Erik Dont let Bigd lay guilt trips on you, i was debating once about the homosexuality issue, and Bigd said, being gay and bisexual was ok. He will lie to your face and argue any which way his lil heart desires.

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