The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!

6/12/2015 1:32:38 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 65, joined Aug. 2010	Quote from ludlowlowell: Jesus repealed the Levitical law. That law is no longer in force. You are a hypocrite if you pretend to keep it if you crank your car on Saturday. Ethnically I am English (Anglo-Saxon) and Choctaw Indian. I am not by any stretch of the imagination a descendant of the Jews. Low: There is no reason for you to ask me or anyone else any questions if you think you know all the answers already. I have been attempting to help you but it appears that you are beyond help. You are so ingrained into the traditions of man that it may be too difficult for you to turn from that way and start following the traditions of Yahweh. Steve Meet singles at DateHookup.dating, we're 100% free! Join now!
6/12/2015 2:45:27 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
louie6332 Falkville, AL 73, joined Nov. 2011	Tnt, you say, concerning your daughter: “Low: It was not necessary to stone her because she obeyed Yahweh's Commandments.” Well, would you have stoned her if she had? (And how do you know for sure she never did, are you taking her word for it?) Your answer to that is that you would not have “because Jesus Christ is no longer king”. Well, Christ has appeared to a Catholic Saint as "Christ the King", and he ordered paintings to be made of him as Christ the King as he appeared. And Catholics today venerate Christ, among other things, as Christ the King. But putting that aside for the moment, I thought you said that the levitical laws STILL apply, and that they apply to Christians, that Peter, under his authority to bind or to loose, had NO authority to bind or to loose these laws for Christians, and that they are therefore still in effect for Christians, unbeknownst to Christians themselves. Do you see what a tangled web you weave, Tnt, when first you practice to deceive. Oh, although what you are preaching here is a deception, I know you are not purposely trying to deceive, or at least I don’t think you are, I think you have wittingly allowed yourself to be deceived out of your rejection of Peter's authority, and, as they say, misery loves company, but when you twist the literal meaning of a passage to avoid its literal meaning, you make it inconsistent with various other passages throughout the Bible, and so you have to twist the literal meaning of those too in a vein attempt to keep the whole rework of the Bible consistent. When you start down that road, you end up having to twist or reword virtually the entire Bible to maintain consistency: when first you practice to deceive. What you end up with in the end, if you were to go down that road, is a tangled mess. Don't go down that road Tnt, take it literally and save yourself the trouble of having to rewrite the entire Bible. You really can’t get out of this one Tnt. You are, technically speaking, if you start your car, starting fires on the Lord’s Day. Furthermore, you are not supposed to travel more than a Sabbath’s Days Journey on the Lord’s Day (it is still in old Catholic missals, by the way, that if it takes more than an hour to get to church on Sunday, you are not required to go, and I assume that that rule is related to the Sabbath’s day journey thing). And do you ever cook out on the grill on the Lord’s Day? Do you ever camp out on the Lord's Day and cook out on a campfire on the Lord's Day? Louie
6/12/2015 2:58:53 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	It's about five hours before sunset on Friday. Don't you dare crank your car after that, Tnt.
6/12/2015 4:30:10 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 65, joined Aug. 2010	Quote from louie6332: Tnt, you say, concerning your daughter: “Low: It was not necessary to stone her because she obeyed Yahweh's Commandments.” Well, would you have stoned her if she had? (And how do you know for sure she never did, are you taking her word for it?) Your answer to that is that you would not have “because Jesus Christ is no longer king”. Well, Christ has appeared to a Catholic Saint as "Christ the King", and he ordered paintings to be made of him as Christ the King as he appeared. And Catholics today venerate Christ, among other things, as Christ the King. But putting that aside for the moment, I thought you said that the levitical laws STILL apply, and that they apply to Christians, that Peter, under his authority to bind or to loose, had NO authority to bind or to loose these laws for Christians, and that they are therefore still in effect for Christians, unbeknownst to Christians themselves. Do you see what a tangled web you weave, Tnt, when first you practice to deceive. Oh, although what you are preaching here is a deception, I know you are not purposely trying to deceive, or at least I don’t think you are, I think you have wittingly allowed yourself to be deceived out of your rejection of Peter's authority, and, as they say, misery loves company, but when you twist the literal meaning of a passage to avoid its literal meaning, you make it inconsistent with various other passages throughout the Bible, and so you have to twist the literal meaning of those too in a vein attempt to keep the whole rework of the Bible consistent. When you start down that road, you end up having to twist or reword virtually the entire Bible to maintain consistency: when first you practice to deceive. What you end up with in the end, if you were to go down that road, is a tangled mess. Don't go down that road Tnt, take it literally and save yourself the trouble of having to rewrite the entire Bible. You really can’t get out of this one Tnt. You are, technically speaking, if you start your car, starting fires on the Lord’s Day. Furthermore, you are not supposed to travel more than a Sabbath’s Days Journey on the Lord’s Day (it is still in old Catholic missals, by the way, that if it takes more than an hour to get to church on Sunday, you are not required to go, and I assume that that rule is related to the Sabbath’s day journey thing). And do you ever cook out on the grill on the Lord’s Day? Do you ever camp out on the Lord's Day and cook out on a campfire on the Lord's Day? Louie Louie: Well the Catholic Saint that had the vison or whatever it was that you spoke of may not have been totally correct. I know you are a Bible reader so I would think that you realize that Yahweh was the King of the Israelites when they were in the wilderness. At that time Yahweh made the Laws and with the help of His Special People, the Israelites, He enforced those Laws. I would think that He told Moses and, or, the people exactly what to do just like the Kings/Judges we have today tell us what to do when a law is broken. Our judges today make our laws and they enforce those laws. But, anytime man attempts to be a judge things will not be as perfect as when Yahweh makes and enforces the Laws. I am more than sure the Laws Yeshua made and enforced were Laws of Perfection. The Israelites were not totally happy, for some strange reason, and they asked Yahweh for a human king like the nations around them had. Yahweh went along with their request and allowed them to have Saul as their King. So, since the Israelites then had a flesh and blood king it meant that they had to follow their kings rules/laws. In other words Yahweh, after the Israelites had a flesh and blood King, did not rule the people directly as He once did. I am sure things went much better for the Israelites when Yahweh was their King. I am well aware that Yeshua said He would be a King but when He was on the Cross He said that His Kingdom had not yet come. When Yeshua comes back to Earth He will be our King for 1,000 years and He we will Rule us as He Ruled the Israelites when they were in the wilderness. He will of course be the perfect King and He will teach us His Way, His Laws and His Commandments. At this time most people/churches don't appear to know His Way, His Laws and His Commandments but during the time He is our King, during His 1,000 Year Reign, it will be more than clear to us as to what is right and wrong. No, if my daughter had been an evil child I would not have stoned her to death. If I had lived during the time that Yahweh was the King of His People then I am sure I would have followed Yahweh's instructions. If I had lived during the time He was King then I am also sure I would have warned and protected my daughter more so than I did when she was growing up in this present generation because I would have known the swift and sure consequences of any Laws she may have broken. When the consequences of breaking a Law or Commandment are swift and sure we tend to be much more careful not to break Yahweh's Laws and Commandments. What I just explained makes perfect sense to me. Steve
6/12/2015 4:37:30 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 65, joined Aug. 2010	Quote from ludlowlowell: It's about five hours before sunset on Friday. Don't you dare crank your car after that, Tnt. Low: It seems to me that your idea of what Yahweh's Laws are or are not is keeping you from following His Laws and Commandments. In other words the pride you have of your wisdom or the Catholic Church's wisdom may lead you to your very destruction. I would recommend that you have pride in the Wisom of the Laws and Commandments of Yahweh. Steve
6/12/2015 4:45:21 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
prophetic774 Winter Haven, FL 65, joined Feb. 2011	Galatians 3:23-25: "Before faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE LAW!!" WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE LAW!! Galatians 2:14-16,20,21; 3:2,5,10-13;23-25: Paul said, When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs? We who are Jews by birth and not 'Gentile sinners' know that a man is NOT justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.!" Galatians 2:20,21: The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. I do not set aside the the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!" Galatians 3:10-13: "All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith." The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them." Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us! Galatians 3:23-25: "Before faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE LAW!!" Hebrews 7:18,19: The former regulation is SET ASIDE because it was weak and useless; for the law made nothing perfect, and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.! Hebrews 8:8,9,13: "The time is coming." says the Lord, "when I will make a New Covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah".... By calling this Covenant "NEW", He has made the first one OBSOLETE; and what is OBSOLETE and aging will soon disappear." Hebrews 8:6: But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which He is Mediator is SUPERIOR TO THE OLD ONE, and it is founded on better promises. Colossians 2:16,17: Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you EAT or drink, or with regard to a religous festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a SHADOW of the things that were to come, the reality, however, is found in Christ!!! All of the OT sabbath laws have been eliminated. Both Jesus and His Father have declared all foods are now clean. All of the OT sacrifical and temple laws have been eliminated. All of the stoning to death laws for breaking the law have been eliminated. All of the laws concerning an eye for an eye and making oaths have been eliminated. Circumcision laws have been eliminated. Loving one another as Jesus loved us has replaced loving one another as you love yourself. Their about 400 NT laws to be obeyed with LOVE in the hope of countless eternal rewards for faithful and loving service has replaced the 613 OT laws.
6/12/2015 4:47:42 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
prophetic774 Winter Haven, FL 65, joined Feb. 2011	In the OT God ordered Israel to kill their enemies many times and God helped them do it. However in the NT Jesus commands, "Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also." Luke 6:27-29 Leviticus 26:7,8: God said to Israel, "You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the SWORD before you. Five of you will chase a hundred, and a hundred of you will chase ten thousand, and your enemies will fall by the SWORD before you!" Numbers 25:16,17" The Lord said to Moses, "Treat the Midianites as enemies and kill them!" etc etc HOWEVER IN THE NEW COVENANT, JESUS SAYS, "ALL WHO DRAW THE SWORD WILL DIE BY THE SWORD!" Jesus said to His 11 Apostles, "If you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. For it is written: "And He was numbered with the transgressors"{Isaiah 53:12} and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in Me. Yes, what is written about Me is reaching its fulfillment." The disciples said, "See Lord, here are 2 {Not 11}swords." "That is enough." Jesus replied. Matthew 26:30-34: They seized Jesus and arrested Him. With that, one of Jesus' companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear. "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "For ALL who draw the sword will die by the sword...But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?" And so the only reason that Jesus allowed the disciples to have 2 swords was so that the Scripture in Isaiah 53:12 would be fulfilled: "He was numbered among the transgressors." Jesus said to Pilate, "My Kingdom is not of this world. If it were, My servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But NOW My Kingdom is from another place!" Former OT commands in Exodus 21:23-25 "If there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise." This was changed by these NT commands by Jesus: Matthew 5:38,39: Jesus commands, "You have heard that it was said {In Exodus 21:23-25 above}, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek turn to him the other also!" Luke 6:27-29: Jesus commands, "LOVE YOUR ENEMIES, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you. do not demand it back!" Romans 12:18-21: If it is possible, as far as it DEPENDS ON YOU, LIVE AT PEACE WITH EVERYONE! Do not take revenge my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written, "It is mine to revenge, I will repay," says the Lord. On the contrary "If your enemy is hungry, feed him. If he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head" Do not be overcome by evil but OVERCOME EVIL WITH GOOD!! 2 Corinthians 10:3,4: "For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are NOT the weapons of the world." The only weapons that NT saints may use who follow the New Covenant commands of Jesus is the Sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God. A NT saint would not even think of joining the army of any nation and becoming a professional killer or defending himself with a gun. Unfortunately very few Groups such as the Amish and Mennonites still obey these sacred commands of Jesus. I John 2:3-5: "We know that we have come to know Him if we obey His {Jesus'} commands. The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what He {Jesus} commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys His Word, God's love is truly made complete in him." The inspired words of the NT were inspired by God between AD 50 and AD 96 and the 4 Gospels were written about AD 65 And so all of the approximately 400 NT commands were not completed and in force until Around AD 96. When you join the military and become a professional killer you must make a VOW that you will obey all the commands of your commanding officer. And so if He commands you to drop an Atomic Bomb that will kill about 100,000 civilians including about 25,000 innocent children you must obey this command!!! What is th OT command concerning VOWS and OATHS?? Numbers 30:2: Moses said, "This is what the Lord commands: When a man makes a VOW to the Lord or takes an OATH to obligate himself by a pledge, he must not break his word but must do everything he said!" What are the NT commands concerning making VOWS and *OATHS?? James 5:12: "ABOVE ALL, my brothers, do not swear--not by heaven or by earth or by anything else. Let your "Yes" be yes, and your "No," no, or you will be condemned.!!" Matthew 5:33-37: Jesus says, "You have heard that it was said to your people long ago {Numbers 30:2 above}, 'Do not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.' BUT I tell you, Do not swear at all....Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No, 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one!!" Anyone who claims that Jesus did not change OT laws is completely blind. All of the OT sabbath laws have been eliminated. All of the OT sacrificial and temple laws have been eliminated by the eternal sacrifice for sins by Jesus. All of the stoning to death laws for breaking the law have been eliminated. All of the laws concerning killing your enemies, and eye for an eye and making oaths have been eliminated. All Circumcision laws have been eliminated. And Jesus declared that all foods are now CLEAN!! Mark 7:18,19: Jesus says, "Are you so dull?" He asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." In saying this. Jesus declared ALL FOODS "CLEAN!"
6/12/2015 5:08:10 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 65, joined Aug. 2010	Quote from prophetic774: Galatians 3:23-25: "Before faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE LAW!!" WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE LAW!! Galatians 2:14-16,20,21; 3:2,5,10-13;23-25: Paul said, When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs? We who are Jews by birth and not 'Gentile sinners' know that a man is NOT justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.!" Galatians 2:20,21: The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. I do not set aside the the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!" Galatians 3:10-13: "All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith." The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them." Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us! Galatians 3:23-25: "Before faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE LAW!!" Hebrews 7:18,19: The former regulation is SET ASIDE because it was weak and useless; for the law made nothing perfect, and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.! Hebrews 8:8,9,13: "The time is coming." says the Lord, "when I will make a New Covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah".... By calling this Covenant "NEW", He has made the first one OBSOLETE; and what is OBSOLETE and aging will soon disappear." Hebrews 8:6: But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which He is Mediator is SUPERIOR TO THE OLD ONE, and it is founded on better promises. Colossians 2:16,17: Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you EAT or drink, or with regard to a religous festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a SHADOW of the things that were to come, the reality, however, is found in Christ!!! All of the OT sabbath laws have been eliminated. Both Jesus and His Father have declared all foods are now clean. All of the OT sacrifical and temple laws have been eliminated. All of the stoning to death laws for breaking the law have been eliminated. All of the laws concerning an eye for an eye and making oaths have been eliminated. Circumcision laws have been eliminated. Loving one another as Jesus loved us has replaced loving one another as you love yourself. Their about 400 NT laws to be obeyed with LOVE in the hope of countless eternal rewards for faithful and loving service has replaced the 613 OT laws. Prop: You are simply quoting Paul to prove Paul is correct. You should be quoting Moses, the Prophets, Yeshua or the true 12 Apostles instead of the deceitful letters of Paul. You need to sharpen up more than a little/small amount. I am here to tell you that you are wrong on most of your beliefs. Most of your beliefs are based on the strange letters of the tare Paul and his letters often went directly against the teachings of the true Patriarchs of the Bible. Prop: I would very much like for you to read this article. I think it may be a lot of help to you. The way you repeat things over and over again I am sure you would make a good witness for Yahweh if you could finally learn the truth of Yahweh's Word. Here is the very good article: http://paulproblem.faithweb.com/have_we_followed_wrong_gospel_jamesvspaul.htm Steve
6/12/2015 6:53:22 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
prophetic774 Winter Haven, FL 65, joined Feb. 2011	God honored Paul by inspiring him to write 14 out of the 27 books in the New Testament. John 5 wrote books and Peter only 2 books. Paul wrote 92 chapters; Luke 52 chapters; John 50 chapters; Mark 16 chapters and Peter only 8 chapters. Luke was inspired to write 15 of the 26 chapters {Acts 9 and Acts 13-26} in the Acts of the Apostles about the exploits of Paul's missionary journeys. Luke was also inspired by God to write Acts 9:3-6,15,16: As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me?" "Who are you Lord?" Saul asked. "I am Jesus who you are persecuting. He replied. Now get up and go into the city and you will be told what to do.....The Lord said to Ananias, "Go! This man is *MY CHOSEN INSTRUMENT* to carry My Name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel!!" Peter was inspired by God to write in 2 Peter 3:1,16: Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you WITH THE WISDOM GOD GAVE HIM. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people {Like TNT!} distort, as they do the other Scriptures to their own destruction! Paul was inspired by God to write Ephesians 3:16-19; I pray that out of His glorious riches He may strengthen you with power through His Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge--that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God! Paul was also inspired to write thousands of God's inspired words including Ephesians 4:11-16: It was He {Jesus} who game some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach the unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men {Like TNT} in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into Him who is the Head, that is, Christ. From Him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work! rose::
6/12/2015 7:44:33 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 65, joined Aug. 2010	Prop wrote: Peter was inspired by God to write in 2 Peter 3:1,16: Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you WITH THE WISDOM GOD GAVE HIM. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people {Like TNT!} distort, as they do the other Scriptures to their own destruction! Prop: Most everyone that knows much about the Bible says Peter did not write 2 Peter. The Catholic Church is responsible for putting Paul's silly letters in the New Testament because they agreed with the simple "Grace" and "Faith" "do nothing" teachings of Paul. I would guess the Catholic Church didn't care for the teachings of Moses, the Prophets, Yeshua and the true 12 Apostles. Did you get around to reading the article I suggested that you read? It is time you are simply learning the truth of God's Word. There was a tare in the Garden of Eden and there was a tare in the Bible and that tare was the "do nothing" Paul. You simply believe the teachings of Moses, the Prophets, Yeshua and the true 12 Apostles or the false teachings of the murderer, tare and false Apostle Paul. When you finally find out the truth of the Bible I am sure you will be happy to share your new found knowledge with everyone you speak with. I would suggest you read the Bible again and this time read it slowly and ask Yeshua for Wisdom and Understanding as you read. Steve
6/12/2015 10:47:24 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
prophetic774 Winter Haven, FL 65, joined Feb. 2011	Quote from tnteacher101: Prop wrote: Peter was inspired by God to write in 2 Peter 3:1,16: Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you WITH THE WISDOM GOD GAVE HIM. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people {Like TNT!} distort, as they do the other Scriptures to their own destruction! Prop: Most everyone that knows much about the Bible says Peter did not write 2 Peter. Steve Tnt: that Peter didn't write 2 Peter is the most ridiculous thing I have heard. Name me one reputable Bible scholar who claims that Peter didn't write 2 Peter. Next you will be saying that the Book of Acts is of Satan because 15 of the 26 chapters tells of the exploits of the Apostle Paul's many missionary journeys and Jesus statement that Paul is "MY CHOSEN INSTRUMENT to carry My Name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel in Acts 9:15. So you believe that you are the only one who knows what is God's Word and any Scripture which disagrees with your insane beliefs is of Satan. Actually it is quite probable that you are one of Satan's disciples. 2 Timothy 3:16 & 2 Timothy 4:1-4: All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for very good work. In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of His appearing and His kingdom, I give you this charge. PREACH THE WORD, correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn away from the Truth and turn aside to myths.
6/13/2015 12:14:43 AM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 65, joined Aug. 2010	Prop: You keep quoting Paul to prove Paul. That is a little more than silly of you. Lots of Bible Scholars dont think Peter was the author or Second Peter. Here is one example: Clues in support of pseudepigraphy Although 2 Peter internally purports to be a work of the apostle, most biblical scholars have concluded that Peter is not the author, and instead consider the epistle pseudepigraphical.[9] Reasons for this include its linguistic differences from 1 Peter, its apparent use of Jude, possible allusions to 2nd-century gnosticism, encouragement in the wake of a delayed parousia, and weak external support.[10] In addition, specific passages offer further clues in support of pseudepigraphy, namely the author's assumption that his audience is familiar with multiple Pauline epistles (2Peter 3:15-16), his implication that the Apostolic generation has passed (2Peter 3:4), and his differentiation between himself and "the apostles of the Lord and Savior" (2Peter 3:2). Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_of_the_Petrine_epistles Steve
6/13/2015 12:23:29 AM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
walt_oftheearth Avondale, AZ 61, joined Feb. 2008	Quote from tnteacher101: The Catholic Church were the very ones that added the silly letters of Paul to the Bible knowing very well that Paul's teachings were opposed to the teachings of Moses, the Prophets, Yeshua and the true 12 Apostles That's a far stretch, Teach.
6/13/2015 8:39:31 AM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 65, joined Aug. 2010	Quote from walt_oftheearth: That's a far stretch, Teach. Walt: I think the Bible gives more than enough evidence to support my belief. No one on this site had been able to give much evidence to cause me to think I am incorrect on this beief of the false Apostle Paul. The Apostles had very little to do with Paul. The Apostles didn't trust Paul and Paul didn't trust them. I honestly believe I am correct on this very important issue. I think if you or anyone else will do just a little research they will come up with the same conclusions I have reached about Paul pushing a totally different Gospel than what Moses, the Prophets, Yeshua and the true Apostles taught. For the most part Churches simply believe and teach Paul and follow the teachings of Paul and ignore the teachings of the truly important People of the Bible. You are more than welcome to attempt to show me I am incorrect on this major issue. I challenge you to do it. I truly want to know the truth of the Bible and am sure you do too. Steve
6/13/2015 1:00:34 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	Tnteacher, one time Martin Luther had a debate with a priest by the name of Fr. Johan vonEck. VonEck said of Luther: "Like all heretics, he appeals to scripture to support his opinions. But like all heretics, when scripture disagrees with him, he rejects scripture." Tnt, isn't that what you are doing here? Leviticus, Deutoronomy, Numbers---all up your alley. But Romans, I and II Corinthians, Galatians, Phillipians, Titus, I and II Timothy, and the other Pauline writings you reject, just because they disagree with your own pet personal opinions. And now you are trying to throw I and II Peter out of the Bible! Back to Luther---Luther's opinion was that Purgatory didn't exist. When II Maccabees says that it does, Luther throws II Maccabees out of the Bible! Or at least he tried to. Luther's opinion was that faith alone was necessary for salvation. When the Book of iJames says that faith without works is dead, Luther tries to throw James out! That's what I call Bible believing cafeteria style. "I think I'll have the Leviticus today, and leave off the Peter and Paul."
6/13/2015 1:16:51 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 65, joined Aug. 2010	Quote from ludlowlowell: Tnteacher, one time Martin Luther had a debate with a priest by the name of Fr. Johan vonEck. VonEck said of Luther: "Like all heretics, he appeals to scripture to support his opinions. But like all heretics, when scripture disagrees with him, he rejects scripture." Tnt, isn't that what you are doing here? Leviticus, Deutoronomy, Numbers---all up your alley. But Romans, I and II Corinthians, Galatians, Phillipians, Titus, I and II Timothy, and the other Pauline writings you reject, just because they disagree with your own pet personal opinions. And now you are trying to throw I and II Peter out of the Bible! Back to Luther---Luther's opinion was that Purgatory didn't exist. When II Maccabees says that it does, Luther throws II Maccabees out of the Bible! Or at least he tried to. Luther's opinion was that faith alone was necessary for salvation. When the Book of iJames says that faith without works is dead, Luther tries to throw James out! That's what I call Bible believing cafeteria style. "I think I'll have the Leviticus today, and leave off the Peter and Paul." Low: I don't think all we have to do is have faith and grace like Paul taught. A few times in the Bible Paul said we need to do works but most of the time he said faith and grace were all that was necessary. James didn't agree with Paul at all and John in Revelations didn't agree with the strange teachings of Paul either. Paul was a loner with ideas and teachings that didn't agree with what Moses, the Prophets, Yeshua or the true Apostles taught. Most of what the Catholic Church teaches are the same basic things that Paul taught. That is the very reason I think Paul may have been the Catholics first Pope. Nothing that I know of that Peter taught lined up with what the Catholic Church believes. The Catholic Church simply agrees with the teachings of Paul and not with the teachings of the true Patriarchs of the Bible. Steve
6/13/2015 1:50:12 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	Paul said grace and faith were necessary but he never said that that was all that was necessary. There are several places where Paul encourages Christians to do good works.
6/13/2015 4:32:13 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 65, joined Aug. 2010	Low: This is a very good article I read earlier: HAVE WE FOLLOWED THE WRONG GOSPEL? THE HIDDEN BATTLE BETWEEN YESHUA, JAMES, AND PETER VS. PAUL IN THE NEW TESTAMENT “They used to call the church a virgin”, wrote Hegesippus, a church historian in the second century, “for she had not yet been corrupted by vain teachings.” Answer for yourself: To what “vain teachings” does Hegesippus refer? Answer for yourself: Have you fell victim to believing in such “vain teachings” and not aware that you have? Essentially the New Testament was the developing statement of the experience of the one virginal church. The first disciples had the unique experience of the human Jesus, then of the resurrection, then of the Holy Spirit. Before Paul these experiences were already expressed in prayers and hymns. It will be hard for you to see and admit at first, but upon completion of this series of articles you will be clearly able to see for yourself that Paul thought these pre-Pauline ideas through, and wrote his own conclusions in his epistles that often were in conflict with the original teachings of Yeshua, James, and Peter. The evangelists and writers of the original Gospels, not those to whom the early church attached authorship, had access to the memories of the first disciples, and they re-told the traditions about Yeshua in the Gospels, either in line with, or modifying, the Pauline theology that pre-dated their writing. In other words, the Gospels were written up to 50 years after Paul had penned his Epistles and they were heavily influenced by his ideas. Thus, Pauline thought was first submitted to writing, and the Gospels were originally written to correct matters at had that had been misrepresented by Paul. Sadly, these “corrections” would themselves fall victim to “additions, deletions, and creationism” through the hands of less than credible Gentile Church authorities during the second century and onward. The false teachers who cloud the later books of the New Testament are a mixture of out-of-date 'Judaizers', gnostics, syncretists and other menaces who tried to seduce the virginal church. The whole structure of Christian belief grew, as Cardinal Newman has so memorably to put it, “as an oak out of an acorn.” These articles are an attempt to educate the contemporary Christian to the spiritual dynamics behind the scenes of the Jerusalem Church which was constantly at odds with Paul. It was this tension between Yeshua’ Apostles versus Paul which fueled the need to create writings to vindicate Paul’s opinions which were not readily acceptable by the Jerusalem Church. Sadly Paul’s writings, written in defense of his opinions which often contradicted Moses, as well as Yeshua, were later considered “inspired” by the Gentile Catholic Church as they searched for authenticity for the unorthodox positions on matters of faith and practice which stood in violation of the Torah. These tensions literally shaped the writing of the New Testament. From as far back as we can trace it (to the 40S) there never was a single, united church. There were (in fact from the 30s) two missions: one run from Jerusalem, with Peter and the sons of Zebedee in charge, and later James, Yeshua' brother, and other members of his family; the other run by Paul, from various centers. The two missions were agreed about the supreme significance of Yeshua, but they disagreed about almost everything else - the validity of the Bible, whether the kingdom of God had arrived or not, sex, money, work, tongues, visions, healings, Yeshua's divinity, and the resurrection of the dead, for example. On the surface the New Testament gives the impression of a united, developing body of belief because it is an organized and purposeful selection of writings; naturally it was selected by the winning mission, that is the Paulines, and that is why it consists of the Epistles of Paul (and his followers), and four Gospels, two of them ultra-Pauline in perspective and two which serve as bridges to the Jewish fraction in the Jerusalem Church. More on that later. THE 2 MESSAGES- THE 2 MISSIONS- THE 2 COMPETING GOSPELS This attempt, through a series of articles, endeavors to reveal to the reader the story of the two missions, the two messages, and the two competing Gospels from as early as our evidence takes us, in practice AD 48, and runs on to about 130 AD. Through a thoughtful searching of Christian history, any reader will find the same facts I have which paint a picture that is quite different from what we hear preached in our Christian Churches today. I have drawn evidence from all the major New Testament sources and some other Christian historical sources into a single overall picture which will draw you to the inescapable conclusion to which I also have come…that Paul was not submitted to the authority of the Jerusalem church, and in all actuality preached “another Gospel” all the while warning others about “another Gospel” which in reality is the real message Yeshua desired the Apostles preach and teach to the Gentile world. For every reader of the New Testament the first problem is to see the connections between the Epistles and the Gospels. The usual way of doing this is to read both against the background of Acts; but this does not guarantee correct understanding of the dynamics at work in the text. For example, how are we to reconcile Mark’s passage referring to Yeshua's clear teaching to Peter and others that all food is clean (Mark 7.I5-I9) with Peter's need of a vision proclaiming 'What God has cleansed do not call unclean' (Acts 10), and then, some years later, Peter's yielding to eat unclean meat at Antioch (Gal. 2:12)? Something is missing for the above passages conflict and contradict each other! Acts is in fact a doubtful asset, for it was Luke’s skillful attempt to paper over all the cracks between Paul and the Jerusalem Church. We could not tell the story of the two missions without Acts, but it is Paul who is our primary source: Paul was there at the time. It is the Epistles which enable us to see what is going on in the churches in the 50S, and we have then to use this picture to interpret the different emphases which we find in the Gospels, and which are so revealing. These articles tell the story of the early church, and the New Testament which it produced. There certainly were editions of Yeshua's sayings which have come through into our four Gospels; but it has been common ground for a century that John put these teachings into his own words, and felt free to reinterpret them in line with his own theology. It has become widely agreed more recently that the other three evangelists used some similar license or freedom. What is at issue is how much have they been reinterpreted and deviate from the original Gospel message of Christ. All four evangelists felt free to put the tradition in their own (Greek) words, and thought that it as their duty to do so, in the same way that contemporary Jews told the biblical stories. So it is perilous to infer that Yeshua said something from the fact that one or more of the Gospels said he did; but it is usually safe to think that each evangelist wrote what he himself believed to be true. The Gospels almost always give us the theology of their authors, and sometimes true tradition about Yeshua. Source: http://paulproblem.faithweb.com/have_we_followed_wrong_gospel_jamesvspaul.htm Steve
6/13/2015 4:36:50 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 65, joined Aug. 2010	Low: Sometimes Paul said we were saved by Grace and Faith alone. At other times Paul would change his mind and say other things. Here is an example of when he said only faith and grace were necessary: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.” Ephesians 2:8-9 Steve
6/13/2015 4:50:13 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
prophetic774 Winter Haven, FL 65, joined Feb. 2011	TNT: To be consistent you must also believe that the Acts of he Apostles was not inspired by God since 15 of the 26 chapters {Chapters 9 and 13-26} are devoted to Paul's fantastic missionary journeys in spreading the Gospel. You must also believe that these words are not inspired by God: Luke was also inspired by God to write Acts 9:3-6,15,16: As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me?" "Who are you Lord?" Saul asked. "I am Jesus who you are persecuting. He replied. Now get up and go into the city and you will be told what to do.....The Lord said to Ananias, "Go! This man is *MY CHOSEN INSTRUMENT* to carry My Name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel!!" TNT: You must also believe that the following words of Jesus were inspired by Satan since they changed OT Law: Mark 7:18,19: "Are you so dull? Jesus asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside cam make him unclean? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." In saying this Jesus declared ALL FOODS CLEAN!! Matthew 5:38,39: Jesus says, "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.{As per Leviticus 24:19,20} But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also!" Matthew 5:33-37" Jesus says, Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, {in the OT LAW} 'Do not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.' But I tell you. Do not swear at all; either by heaven or by the earth...Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and you 'No,' 'No,; anything beyond this comes FROM THE EVIL ONE!!"{See James 5:12} There were 26 OT laws for stoning people to death for committing adultery, lighting a fire on the Sabbath etc. But Jesus cancelled these 26 OT laws when He said in John 8:7, "He who is without sin cast the first stone!!" Jesus also put an end to thousands of animal sacrifices for sin by the sacrifice of Himself!!!
6/13/2015 6:06:19 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 65, joined Aug. 2010	Article continued: THE BASIC TENSION BETWEEN THE JERUSALEM CHURCH AND PAUL The earliest incidents in church history of which we have a first hand account reveal an uncomfortable tension. Paul had been a member of the church at Antioch, in Syria, for some years, a the mission there had been successful in converting some gentiles (non-Jews). The question had then arisen as to how much of the Jewish Law in the Bible these Gentile converts needed to keep; and Paul had adopted a liberal policy - roughly speaking they had of course to keep the moral commandments, but he turned a blind eye to the ceremonial commandments, other than central matters like idolatry. This decision then led to a series of difficult incidents, which he records in the letter that he wrote some years later to the Galatian churches, in central Turkey. The first of these opened a dozen years or so after his conversion: Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, taking Titus also with us. I went up by revelation . . .because of false brethren secretly brought in, who slipped in to spy out our freedom which we have in Christ Yeshua; that they might ring us into bondage - to them we did not yield submission for a moment (Gal. 2:I-4). Answer for yourself: Who are these “false brethren” and did Yeshua consider them also to be “false brethren”? The 'false brethren' were Christians from Jerusalem, 350 miles away. They had been sent by James to see what was going on at Antioch, and naturally had not mentioned this at first. However, when they realized the Antioch church was not observing the Jewish Law (especially, as it turns out, over kosher meat and meats sacrificed to idols which was idolatry), they raised an objection. Paul refused to repent and change his church's ways ('to them we did not yield submission for a moment'), and regarded them as having deceived him ('false brethren secretly brought in, who slipped in to spy out our freedom which we have in Christ Yeshua's). As they could spy it out, it must have been something they could see, like the meats eaten that had been sacrificed to idols. Paul's new revelation in Christ had nullified for him the Laws of God. The 'false brethren' then reported the lax ways of the Antioch church to the Jerusalem apostles, who wanted proper order observed. Paul saw trouble coming (so he prepares the way by saying 'I went up by revelation'), and took Barnabas and Titus, a young Greek Christian, with him to talk with and discuss his position on matters of faith and practice with the apostles. The event is characterized by Luke in Acts 15 and is dated at 50 A.D. Paul saw James (Yeshua's brother), Peter end John, and Paul speaks of them in a rather sarcastic tone: 'those who are reputed to be something (what they are makes no difference to me; God shows no impartiality) . . . those who seemed to be pillars' (Gal. 2:6,9). The ill temper with which he speaks of them is a clear indication that he saw them behind the further, extensive trouble which the letter to the Galatians was written to counter. The writer of Acts, himself a Gentile and pro-Pauline, would have his reader understand that the Jerusalem meeting amazingly was in fact friendly, and the cracks were papered over. But no matter how the account was softened in Acts we find the underlying tension soon reappeared following the council: But when Cephas came to Antioch I opposed him to the face because he stood condemned. For before certain men came from James he ate with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing those of the circumcision. And with him the rest of the Jews acted hypocritically, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy. But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, 'If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews? (Gal. 2.11-14). Answer for yourself: The above is Paul's version of the Antioch incident where Peter made a surprise visit and found Paul violating the Laws of Moses and teaching both Jews and non-Jews to do such in Antioch. Peter's rebuke pf Paul is hidden but understood in Paul's response. Along with the men from James who confronted Paul to his face with his deeds and even Barnabas, who for a short time had been swayed by Paul, withdrew from Paul's company in repentance and Barnabas, who had been misled by Paul, along with others, returned their hearts unto the Fathers (Moses). Did you just see that Paul compared “repentance” with “hypocrisy” in the above verse? Answer for yourself: Can you see that this is only Paul’s perspective and his account of the incident from his perspective only since he was corrected by Godly men from Jerusalem, and not meant to be taken as if Paul’s opinion is God’s view on the subject? PETER Cephas is another name for Peter: Yeshua had given him the name 'Rock', which is Cepha in Aramaic and Petros in Greek`. Peter had come to Antioch because James and he were not too sure of what was going on there, and felt they had better see for themselves. At first Peter enjoyed the friendly atmosphere and the devotion of the church, and he joined in eating the meat at the church supper, without asking any questions about where it had been bought or how it had been cooked ('he ate with the Gentiles'). The issue was not only Gentiles eating unclean meat to whom Paul was supposed to teach the Laws of Noah which forbid such, but meat sacrificed to idols as well. Paul rightly understood that he could “win” more of the lost if he dropped some requirements of Torah, but this was to be his undoing shortly. Some commentators suppose that James in Jerusalem suspected that Peter's kindly heart meant that he would not put his foot down; so he sent a further deputation ('certain men from dames'), and they found, just as James feared, that he was not insisting on kosher meat, purity laws, etc. ('living like a Gentile'). The idea you need to understand, if this idea be true, is that we don't know for sure Peter was eating unclean food as well, but for certain he was fellow-shipping at tables which served it, and in reality he was fellow-shipping with sin. Such, if it happened, was the compromise of Peter, for he as one who was given the Keys to the Kingdom for the Gentiles first with Cornelius, should be above compromising commandments given to Gentiles which he was not only aware of, but sworn to teach and enforce. So James’ men said to him quietly, “look here, which side are you on?" But this is possibly just conjecture. For certain however something was able to be "spyed" out or seen that tipped off the men from James and Peter that the actions and teachings of Paul were a compromise of truth and a rejection of Jewish Covenant Law. Again the source of this article: http://paulproblem.faithweb.com/have_we_followed_wrong_gospel_jamesvspaul.htm Steve
6/13/2015 6:09:53 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 65, joined Aug. 2010	Article continued: WHO ARE WE TO FOLLOW: PETER OR PAUL? The following Saturday nigh there was a scene. Peter said,' Before we go any further, I have to ask, Is this meat kosher? Was it bought at the Jewish butcher's?' Well, the meat actually came from the Antioch market; so Peter said, 'Then I'm afraid that all God's people will have to go next door for the concluding Sabbath service ("separated themselves" meaning becoming holy once again in regard to uncleanness); and leave this meat for those who have not yet put themselves under God's Law'. It was a moment of crisis: everyone there had to decide whether Peter or Paul was right. Paul naturally hoped that his church would stand solidly with him, but in fact all the Jewish members had been feeling guilty of breaking the Law, and they sided with Peter; then Paul's closest ally Barnabas felt that was right ('was carried way by their hypocrisy'). The whole of Paul's church, once rebuked by the men from James and Peter, left Paul and went next door and removed themselves from such sin. Paul revels in it and twists the account into a one-sided presentation where the unsuspecting reader would thing Paul was right and the others were wrong! Answer for yourself: Again, Paul would have us understand that Barnabas’ repentance at eating unclean food and food sacrificed to pagan idols, is to be understood as “hypocrisy” instead of “holiness”. Do you hear such absurdity in Paul’s account? Answer for yourself: Can you, now having all the facts, and no longer reading Paul as if he can do no wrong, can you now see how easily you have been misled and believed a lie most of your life concerning God’s wishes for you and your diet? This naturally made Paul very angry, because in effect his Gentile converts were being excommunicated; so he explained to Peter where he had gone wrong ('I withstood him to the face because he stood condemned'). Before the James party arrived he had joined in and eaten the non-kosher meat ('lived like a gentile'); now that they had frightened him, he was trying to force Jewish ways on the Gentile Christians ('compel them to live like we'). As for Paul this was a double life, or hypocrisy; but not for God! The die had been cast by now, and the Peter party, the Petrines, had won the round. SO WHAT HAPPENED NEXT? Although the Petrines won the battle the Pauline won the war. In the long run the Paulines won, and Christians today do not eat kosher meat nor are circumcised as a matter of faith as a sign of the Covenant. Idolatry, just like with Antioch and the Pauline Gospel which was rebuked by Peter and the men from James, lies hidden in many of the teachings of Pauline Christianity today. The Paulines have won...that is until we die and find that God has got a different opinion on the matter than Paul! In consequence non-Jewish readers of the story usually sympathize with Paul, and are apt to speak of the Jerusalem Christian attitude as being legalistic. But if we are to follow the story open-mindedly, we must be fair to James and Peter. If you accept the Bible as the word of God (as they all did, Paul included), then it is not for you to say that one of God's rules or Laws, say for example "not murdering," is important, and another, circumcision, is legalism: if God has said it is to be done, that is the end of the matter. Furthermore, many of the rules may need some explanation. Leviticus I7:14 says that you may not eat blood in your meat: well, what exactly are you to do to make sure there is "no blood"? Sometimes one text says one thing and one another. If God has told us what he wishes us to do, then surely we must have such points discussed by experts, and we must follow their conclusions. That is what the Jewish Sages had been doing for centuries, and Peter and James were honoring God's Word by taking their interpretations seriously. Paul, on the other hand, knew that the Gentile church-members would be repelled by a demand that they should observe such rulings, and he thought it was obvious that they did not apply now that Christ had come: so he speaks of 'our freedom' which we have in Christ, and of 'bringing us into bondage', and he calls Peter and the others hypocrites because they had either rejected his "special gospel" or had first been swayed by him to relax their observance of their Covenant and then, when called upon the carpet for their actions, withdrew and repented when shown that they were in error and sin. MISUNDERSTANDING COSTS US NOW AND LATER AS WELL Although the issue about Jewish rulings has faded away, the point about interpreting the Bible has not, and a modern example may help the non-Jewish reader to balance his sympathies. The film Chariots of Fire featured the partially true story of the Scottish runner, Eric Liddell, who was picked to run for the United Kingdom in the Paris Olympics of I924, and declined to run because the heat was on a Sunday. He was a pious Presbyterian Christian, later a missionary, who would not break the sabbath. The Bible law is set out in Ex. 20:8, 'Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy', and for Liddell that settled the question, let the Prince of Wales say whet he would. Now the attentive reader may notice that two steps have been jumped in the argument. First, Exodus goes on to say that the sabbath (rest) day is to be kept on the seventh day of the week, that is Saturday; so Sunday activities are not covered at all. Secondly, while Exodus clearly forbids work on the sabbath, no mention is made of running as work. When people have been brought up in a long and unchallenged religious environment, the community's interpretations of its traditions have all the authority of the Bible itself. So although secular modern man may think gold medals more important than fussy old superstitions, he can still empathize with Liddell, and admire his integrity; and he ought (and even more ought the religious man) to empathize with and admire James and Peter for their integrity. The problem between James/Peter and Paul was one which would not go away in a hurry. Here is Ignatius, a Pauline, the Bishop of Antioch seventy years later; he is on his way to be martyred in Rome, and the scene is Philadelphia in modern Turkey, not far from the Galatian churches Paul had been writing to: If anyone propound Judaism to you, do not listen to him . . . For even though certain persons desired to deceive me after the flesh, the spirit is not deceived . . . I cried out, when I was among you; I spoke with a loud voice, with God's own voice, 'Give heed to the. bishop and the presbytery and deacons' . . . I heard certain people saying, 'If I do not find it in the ancient texts, I do not believe it in the Gospel'; and when I said to them, 'It is written', they answered me, 'That is the question' (Philadelphians, 6ff.). Again the source of the article: http://paulproblem.faithweb.com/have_we_followed_wrong_gospel_jamesvspaul.htm Steve
6/13/2015 8:03:08 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	Ephesians 2:8-9 does not mean what most Protestant ministers, including Martin Luther, say it means. To them , it means, oh, I believe in Jesus, now I've got grace and can coast on in to Heaven, no matter how many commandments I break, no matter how few good works I do. The Catholic undestsnding of this is that grace gives us the ability to believe, to keep the commandments, and to do good works, and that none of the three can be done without God's grace. It doesn't mean a free ride. For salvation, faith by itself isn't good enough---"faith without works is dead", St. James so rightly says.
6/13/2015 8:19:53 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
kb2222 Jacksonville, FL 75, joined Apr. 2011	Quote from ludlowlowell: Ephesians 2:8-9 does not mean what most Protestant ministers, including Martin Luther, say it means. To them , it means, oh, I believe in Jesus, now I've got grace and can coast on in to Heaven, no matter how many commandments I break, no matter how few good works I do. The Catholic undestsnding of this is that grace gives us the ability to believe, to keep the commandments, and to do good works, and that none of the three can be done without God's grace. It doesn't mean a free ride. For salvation, faith by itself isn't good enough---"faith without works is dead", St. James so rightly says. You obviously don't keep the commandments or you wouldn't have the need to go to confession every week and you consistently tell lies, bear false witness, and show mocking contempt for the teachings of Jesus so don't act so self-righteous with your Catholic understanding as its corrupt and self-serving in so many ways.
6/13/2015 8:24:39 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	You might say that it is a matter of emphasis. Jesus emphasized keeping the law (the ten commandments, not the Levitical law, which He repealed), James emphasized good works, and Paul faith and grace. But all three of these men believed in all three. Leaving any one of these out will result in the loss of one's soul.
6/13/2015 8:29:29 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
kb2222 Jacksonville, FL 75, joined Apr. 2011	Quote from kb2222: You obviously don't keep the commandments or you wouldn't have the need to go to confession every week and you consistently tell lies, bear false witness, and show mocking contempt for the teachings of Jesus so don't act so self-righteous with your Catholic understanding as its corrupt and self-serving in so many ways.
6/13/2015 8:41:13 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 65, joined Aug. 2010	This is the last of the article I have been posting. If everyone will read it I think everyone will learn quite a lot from it. Here it is: The Philadelphian church is split. It has 'Jewish Christians' in it, who propound Judaism and trust only the Old Testament, the ancient texts; and it has Gentile Christians, who do not keep the Jewish food laws, circumcision, etc., and who have some other, Christian book, which Ignatius calls 'the Gospel'. Ignatius has come as a stranger to the Church, and the Jewish party has kept quiet (desired to deceive me); but be had met this kind of tension before, and he soon guessed what has up. Now Paul used to run a mission for a short period and then move on, normally; and when he left, he used to appoint a committee of senior people ('the presbytery') and other of officers ('deacons') to run the church. In time the most senior person, often the one in those house the church met, became known as the 'overseer' (Greek episcopos) or bishop. So Ignatius shouts out that the church should follow these leaders, or in other words, the Pauline party and not the Petrine party); and like some modern preachers, he thinks that if he shouts it loud it is because he is inspired (God's own voice). These are two first-hand accounts of Christian church meetings, from either end of the period which these articles cover. The row between Paul and Peter in Antioch happened right before or just after the Jerusalem Council (opinions differ); the one between Ignatius and the Jewish Christians at Philadelphia took place about 117 A.D. None of our New Testament books were written before the dispute at Antioch, and most had been written before Ignatius' martyrdom. It is not an accident that they both reveal the same basic tension, for this tension was certain to appear wherever the Pauline mission went. For there were Jews in every major center throughout the Roman Empire, and Paul's normal preaching method was to go to the synagogue first. Even if he did not convert some Jews, the Gentiles whom he won over had been used to Jewish ways and respected the Old Testament as the word of God. But Paul knew that the Gentile mission would never go far if it got tied up with kosher meat and tithing rules; and he was totally persuaded that Christ had died to save all mankind. So everywhere it was inevitable that there would be divisions on this issue. Of course there might be many other divisions, but this division was bound to come. There were two missions: the Jerusalem mission headed by Yeshua's central disciples, Peter, James and John, and by Yeshua's family, his brothers James, Jude and the others; and the Pauline mission, headed by Paul, with centers first at Antioch, later at Ephesus in western Turkey, and finally in Europe. This examination of this dynamic struggle is an account of the first century of church life in the light of this basic split. Most people today live in tolerant communities. In some communities there is an issue which you cannot escape; and when national and religious identity are involved, as they were with the Petrine and Pauline missions, you have issues for which men will die, and kill. It is probable that both Paul and Ignatius died in partial consequence of the hatred of Jewish Christians (that is, those loyal to Peter and James); and we shall see that the Paulines, especially St. John, hated the Jewish Christians with an equal ferocity. The two missions are there in Galatians, with their leaders: 'when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcision [the non-Jews] as Peter had been with the gospel to the circumcision [the Jews]; for he who authorized Peter for the mission to the circumcision authorized me too for the mission to the Gentiles (Gal. 2:7). The issue about the Law is the subject of Paul’s letters to the Galatians and the Romans, and crops up in virtually every other book in one form or the other. But the Law was only the first of many differences between the two missions; and to understand what those differences were, and why they arose, is to understand the New Testament. Again the source of this article: http://paulproblem.faithweb.com/have_we_followed_wrong_gospel_jamesvspaul.htm Steve
6/13/2015 9:58:42 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	You might say that it is a matter of emphasis. Jesus emphasized keeping the law (the ten commandments, not the Levitical law, which He repealed), James emphasized good works, and Paul faith and grace. But all three of these men believed in all of this. Leaving any one of these out will result in the loss of one's soul.
6/13/2015 10:43:05 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 65, joined Aug. 2010	Quote from ludlowlowell: You might say that it is a matter of emphasis. Jesus emphasized keeping the law (the ten commandments, not the Levitical law, which He repealed), James emphasized good works, and Paul faith and grace. But all three of these men believed in all of this. Leaving any one of these out will result in the loss of one's soul. Low: You keep saying Yeshua said the Levitical Laws/Torah has been done away with. All you have to do is show me where Yeshua or any of the true 12 Apostles said the Torah had been done away with. It is that plain and that simple. Either you can do it or you cannot do it. Did you read the article I posted earlier? If not then you need to read it. I will go with/believe what Moses, the Prophets, Yeshua and the true 12 Apostles taught instead of the strange teachings of the murderer, tare and false Apostle Paul taught. Most of what Paul taught went against/opposed the teachings of the Patriarchs of the Bible. Paul was simply a loose cannon and one never knew what he would say or do next. When you say something you simply need to back it up. Steve
6/13/2015 11:23:35 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
walt_oftheearth Avondale, AZ 61, joined Feb. 2008	Quote from tnteacher101: Walt: I think the Bible gives more than enough evidence to support my belief. No one on this site had been able to give much evidence to cause me to think I am incorrect on this beief of the false Apostle Paul. The Apostles had very little to do with Paul. The Apostles didn't trust Paul and Paul didn't trust them. I honestly believe I am correct on this very important issue. I think if you or anyone else will do just a little research they will come up with the same conclusions I have reached about Paul pushing a totally different Gospel than what Moses, the Prophets, Yeshua and the true Apostles taught. For the most part Churches simply believe and teach Paul and follow the teachings of Paul and ignore the teachings of the truly important People of the Bible. You are more than welcome to attempt to show me I am incorrect on this major issue. I challenge you to do it. I truly want to know the truth of the Bible and am sure you do too. Steve One would have to prove that Saul of Tarsus's blinding encounter with Christ on the road to Damascus did not happen. And that Paul, all of a sudden stopped persecuting Christians, for some other reason, unknown.
6/13/2015 11:41:33 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
prophetic774 Winter Haven, FL 65, joined Feb. 2011	Did Peter just like Paul teach that you don't have to be circumcised and obey all the Laws of Moses and that we are saved by God's GRACE AND GREAT MERCYTHROUH FAITH!! Acts 15 :5-11: Some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses?" The apostles and elders met to consider this question. After much discussion, PETER got up and addressed them: "Brothers you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from their lips the message of the gospel and believe. God, who knows the heart showed that He accepted them by giving them the Holy Spirit to them, just as He did to us. He made no distinction between us and them, for He purified their hearts BY FAITH. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a YOKE {Referring to the law of Moses above} that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? No! We believe it is THROUGH THE GRACE of our Lord Jesus that we are saved just as they are!!" I Peter 1:3-5: PETER said, "Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In His GREAT MERCY He has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade--kept in heaven for you, who THROUGH FAITH** are shielded by God's power! And John and Jesus agrees with both Paul and Peter!!! John 6:37-40,44: Jesus says, "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will NEVER drive away...For My Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the Last Day...No one can come to Me UNLESS* the Father who sent Me draws them, and I will raise them up at the Last Day!" John 1:12,13: Yet to all who received Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God--children born not of natural descent, NOR OF HUMAN DECISION or a husband's will, but born of God!
6/14/2015 12:28:32 AM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 65, joined Aug. 2010	Quote from walt_oftheearth: One would have to prove that Saul of Tarsus's blinding encounter with Christ on the road to Damascus did not happen. And that Paul, all of a sudden stopped persecuting Christians, for some other reason, unknown. Walt: The blinding encounter on the road to Damascus could very well have been a hoax. The story was repeated and the circumstances story line changed when it was repeated. The witnesses to the Damascus encounter is weak at the very best. It is my view that since Paul could not either imprison or have all of the believers executed he decided he would pretend to join them and do damage to thme from within their ranks by teaching a doctrine that was different than what Yeshua and the true 12 Apostles taught. Yeshua and Paul were living at the same time. If Yeshua wanted Paul as an Apostle I would think He would have chosen him when He was living. The story line that Paul gives makes very little sense to me. Not one time in Paul's letters does Paul ask for forgiveness for the evil deeds he did to the followers of Yeshua. Paul often taught a different Gospel than what Moses, the Prophets, Yeshua and the true 12 Apostles taught. Since Paul was not an Apostles he more or less lied about being an Apostle. I don't see any reason Yahweh would have used a murderer and liar in His Service. Paul admitted he was a Pharisee and Yeshua said the Pharisees were a den/brood of vipers/snakes. If you will read the article I recently posted I think this may help you to understand some of the issues and problems the true Apostles had with Paul. Steve
6/14/2015 4:54:49 AM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	Paul never said that ALL we need are faith and grace. He merely said that we need faith and grace, which we do. Paul's conversion story is in Acts, written by Luke. Why would Luke lie about such a thing? And if Luke is a liar, then the Gospel of Luke and the whole Book of Acts must be bogus. Is that what you contend?
6/14/2015 7:31:45 AM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 65, joined Aug. 2010	Low wrote: Paul never said that ALL we need are faith and grace. He merely said that we need faith and grace, which we do. Low: These verses indicate otherwise: Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. Romans 6:14 ESV For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace. Romans 11:6 ESV But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace. Ephesians 2:8 ESV For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 1 Corinthians 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me. Romans 3:20-24 ESV For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, Romans 3:24 ESV And are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 2 Timothy 2:1 ESV You then, my child, be strengthened by the grace that is in Christ Jesus, Titus 2:11 ESV For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, Ephesians 2:1-22 ESV And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— ... 2 Timothy 1:9 Who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began, Galatians 2:19-21 ESV For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose. Romans 4:16 ESV That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, Ephesians 2:4-5 ESV But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— Romans 5:20 ESV Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, Colossians 2:13-15 ESV And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him. Titus 2:11-12 ESV For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, Galatians 1:15 ESV But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace, Low: You can either follow Moses, the Prophets, Yeshua and the 12 True Apostles or you can follow the murderer, tare and false Apostle Paul. I choose to follow Moses, the Prophets, Yeshua and the true 12 Apostles. Paul simply taught a different gospel. Paul taught "grace" and "faith" only. It is my opinion that Paul will lead many people to their very destruction with his strange teaching/letters. The Catholic Church seems to have already decided they will follow the simple minded Paul. Steve
6/14/2015 3:08:38 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	You are misunderstanding Paul. Paul is not saying good works aren't necessary---in fact you quoted him correctly as saying that he works hard too. Grace is not a free ticket to Heaven, like the Baptists say. Grace is the God-given ability to obey the ten commandments and to do good works and to have faith in Christ. All this can be lost by the commission of only one mortal sin.
6/14/2015 5:32:31 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 65, joined Aug. 2010	Quote from ludlowlowell: You are misunderstanding Paul. Paul is not saying good works aren't necessary---in fact you quoted him correctly as saying that he works hard too. Grace is not a free ticket to Heaven, like the Baptists say. Grace is the God-given ability to obey the ten commandments and to do good works and to have faith in Christ. All this can be lost by the commission of only one mortal sin. Low: Paul plainly says we are under Grace and Faith and not works. He says God's Laws were nailed to the Cross. Neither Moses, the Prophets, Yeshua or the true 12 Apostles said anything close what Paul taught. James and John both basically ignored grace and faith and said we would be judged by our works. James 2:14 Bible Rank: 160 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if people claim to have faith but have no deeds? Can such faith save them? NIV Steve
6/14/2015 6:04:45 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
prophetic774 Winter Haven, FL 65, joined Feb. 2011	TNT To be consistent you must also believe that the Acts of he Apostles was not inspired by God since 17 of the 26 chapters {Chapters 9 and 13-28} are devoted to Paul's fantastic missionary journeys in spreading the Gospel. Now TNT says the following scripture is a HOAX which implies that the whole book of Acts is from Satan. Actually TNT believes that all Scripture which disagrees with his insane beliefs is from Satan including all the 14 books written by Paul, 2 Peter and the book of Acts!! ))) However all true Christians believe that Luke was also inspired by God to write Acts 9:3-6,15,16: As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me?" "Who are you Lord?" Saul asked. "I am Jesus who you are persecuting. He replied. Now get up and go into the city and you will be told what to do.....The Lord said to Ananias, "Go! This man is *MY CHOSEN INSTRUMENT* to carry My Name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel!!" TNT: You must also believe that the following words of Jesus were inspired by Satan since they changed the Law of Moses!! Mark 7:18,19: "Are you so dull? Jesus asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside cam make him unclean? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." In saying this Jesus declared ALL FOODS CLEAN!! Matthew 5:38,39: Jesus says, "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.{As per Leviticus 24:19,20} But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also!" Matthew 5:33-37" Jesus says, Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, {in the OT LAW as per Exodus 13:19; 22:11} 'Do not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.' But I tell you. Do not swear at all; either by heaven or by the earth...Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and you 'No,' 'No,; anything beyond this comes FROM THE EVIL ONE!!"{See James 5:12} There were 26 OT laws for stoning people to death for committing adultery, lighting a fire on the Sabbath etc. But Jesus cancelled these 26 OT laws when He said in John 8:7, "He who is without sin cast the first stone!!" John 8:3-11: The Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery they made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women {As per Leviticu3 20:10} Now what do you say?".... Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with His finger. Jesus said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."...At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there . Jesus asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" "No one Sir, she said. then neither do I condemn you!!" Thus doing away with the 26 laws of Moses for putting people to death. Jesus also put an end to thousands of animal sacrifices for sin by the sacrifice of Himself!!!
6/14/2015 6:48:06 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 65, joined Aug. 2010	Prop wrote: Mark 7:18,19: "Are you so dull? Jesus asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside cam make him unclean? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." In saying this Jesus declared ALL FOODS CLEAN!! Prop: It is very strange to me that you claim to know quite a lot about the Bible yet you don't understand that the subject of those verses was only talking about eating with unwashed hands. If those verses had meant that all unclean animals were all of a sudden cleansed to eat then after that time everyone would have eaten the unclean animals of the bible but that simply did not happen. You need to go back and read the sentences before the ones you printed. Here it is so you can read it for yourself. I hope you don't misunderstand it this time: Mark 7 New International Version (NIV) That Which Defiles 7 The Pharisees and some of the teachers of the law who had come from Jerusalem gathered around Jesus 2 and saw some of his disciples eating food with hands that were defiled, that is, unwashed. 3 (The Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they give their hands a ceremonial washing, holding to the tradition of the elders. 4 When they come from the marketplace they do not eat unless they wash. And they observe many other traditions, such as the washing of cups, pitchers and kettles.[a]) 5 So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, “Why don’t your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with defiled hands?” Prop wrote: There were 26 OT laws for stoning people to death for committing adultery, lighting a fire on the Sabbath etc. But Jesus cancelled these 26 OT laws when He said in John 8:7, "He who is without sin cast the first stone!!" Prop: Those laws were enforced when Yahweh was the king of Israel. Yeshua made the laws and He enforced them. Later the Israelites had a flesh and blood King named Saul and Saul made laws and enforced them too but in a different way than Yahweh enforced them. The lighting of the fires represented work as usual. It appears to me that you have a very limited understanding of most of the Bible. I recommend that you start all over at Genesis and read it all again and this time with understanding and wisdom. I am rooting for you. I am hoping that you will be able to understand it like it is supposed to be understood. It appears to me that you are merely following the traditions of man instead of the traditions of Yahweh. Following the traditions of man is a very sad condition to be in. Prop: You need to sharpen up and do the very best you can. If you will pay close attention to what I tell you I think you may get on the right track. Steve
6/14/2015 9:50:55 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	Paul meant that the Levitical law, repealed by Christ, was crucified on the cross. Paul preached against lying, stealing, murder, adultery, etc. Paul emphasized grace and faith but did not, as the Baptists wrongly think, dismiss morality and works. James and Jesus emphasized other things, but even Jesus said that without Him we could do nothing, in other words, we need His grace. Emphasis. The Dodgers always emphasized pitching, but they have batters. The Yankees have always emphasized hitting, but they have pitchers. Grace, faith, morality, and works---all necessary for salvation. Grace makes the other three possible. Dont reject Paul---try to understand him in context with the rest of the New Testament.
6/14/2015 10:55:16 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 65, joined Aug. 2010	Low wrote: Paul meant that the Levitical law, repealed by Christ, was crucified on the cross. Paul preached against lying, stealing, murder, adultery, etc. Low: Would you kindly show me where, in the Bible, Christ repealed the Levitical Laws, where He said the day of rest was changed to Sunday, where He said we could now eat the unclean animals, where He said we were not to observe Yahweh's Holy Days, where He said males were not to be circumcised any longer? I don't think Yeshua ever repealed any of Yahweh's Laws or Commandments. Yeshua said Yahweh's Laws and Commandments would last until Heaven and Earth passed. The last time I was outside my home Heaven and Earth were still there/intact. The Bible says Yahweh was the same yesterday, today and forever and ever. Yeshua and the true 12 Apostles rested/worshipped on the Seventh Day Sabbath which is Saturday, they observed/horored Yahweh's Holy Days, they did not eat the unclean animals listed in Leviticus Chapter 11 and Deuteronomy Chapter 14 and they emphasized circumcision. I will take the word of Moses, the Prophets, Yeshua and the true 12 Apostles that Yahweh's Laws and Commandments have not been abolished before I will take simple Paul's word that Yahweh's Laws and Commandments have been abolished. I will simply take the word of the Patriarchs of the Bible over the strange teachings of Paul every time. Paul always said he was an Apostle but when it was all said and done he was not an Apostle. If Paul was "in error" on something as important as claiming to be an Apostle then I am sure he was wrong on most of the other things he taught. Steve
6/14/2015 11:42:37 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	When Jesus said that it is not what goes in a man, but what comes out of him that defiles him, He repealed the entire Levitical law. So the Church teaches. At Matthew 16:19 Jesus gives the pope the power to loose and to bind, so the Church had the authority to change the day of rest and worship. Acts 20:7 shows how early on this was done. Today Pope Francis could change it to Tuesday if he so chose.
6/15/2015 8:31:29 AM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 63, joined Oct. 2007	Of course there are no "pope" or "papal" authorities in the Scriptures. That part was made up by the Catholic church. And the Catholic church has no authority to change anything. So Matthew 16:19 and Acts 20:7 do not show any "popes" or any "papal" authorities whatsoever. Even when he is mis-interpreting the Scriptures I have to point out ludlows proclivity to Scriptura Sola. It's all just smoke and mirrors. The Catholic church is corrupt.
6/15/2015 9:21:06 AM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 65, joined Aug. 2010	Quote from ludlowlowell: When Jesus said that it is not what goes in a man, but what comes out of him that defiles him, He repealed the entire Levitical law. So the Church teaches. At Matthew 16:19 Jesus gives the pope the power to loose and to bind, so the Church had the authority to change the day of rest and worship. Acts 20:7 shows how early on this was done. Today Pope Francis could change it to Tuesday if he so chose. Low wrote: When Jesus said that it is not what goes in a man, but what comes out of him that defiles him, He repealed the entire Levitical law. Low: Well, that is a major/huge stretch of the imagination for you, the Catholic Church or anyone else to take such an insignificant statement and attempt to read into it that with that statement Yahweh's Levitical Laws/Torah were mysteriously done away with. Any person with even a small amount of common sense and wisdom would say that you, the Catholic Church or anyone else were simply grasping for straws by making such a unfounded, simple minded and false claim. If that is an example of the depth of the reasoning/decision making of the Catholic Church then I would say the foundation of the Catholic Church is on very unsolid ground and is subject to sinking at any time. In fact I am more than surprised that anyone would join or be compelled to stay with such a weak minded church organization. I pointed out before that when Yeshua said: "that it is not what goes in a man, but what comes out of him that defiles him" Yeshua was talking about eating with unwashed hands as shown below: Mark 7 New International Version (NIV) That Which Defiles 7 The Pharisees and some of the teachers of the law who had come from Jerusalem gathered around Jesus 2 and saw some of his disciples eating food with hands that were defiled, that is, unwashed. 3 (The Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they give their hands a ceremonial washing, holding to the tradition of the elders. 4 When they come from the marketplace they do not eat unless they wash. And they observe many other traditions, such as the washing of cups, pitchers and kettles.[a]) 5 So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, “Why don’t your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with defiled hands?” Low: How anyone could take a statement about "eating with unwashed hands" and say it meant that the entire Levitical Law/Torah was done away with because of that statement is simply beyond reason. Both you and the Catholic Church will have to come up with a better answer than that. I am well aware that in past centuries the Catholic Church could believe and say anything they liked and if anyone didn't agree with them then the Catholic Church would simply declare them heretics and execute them. Hopefully we have reached a point in our society that that type of control and power over the people will not work. Steve
6/15/2015 9:27:53 AM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
visitingfriends Evansville, WI 76, joined Jan. 2011	Quote Prophetic.. TNT To be consistent you must also believe that the Acts of he Apostles was not inspired by God since 17 of the 26 chapters {Chapters 9 and 13-28} are devoted to Paul's fantastic missionary journeys in spreading the Gospel. Now TNT says the following scripture is a HOAX which implies that the whole book of Acts is from Satan. Actually TNT believes that all Scripture which disagrees with his insane beliefs is from Satan including all the 14 books written by Paul, 2 Peter and the book of Acts!! ))) - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just wondering Steve why you do not address this part of Prophetic's post? This time I agree with Him. Are you ready to throw the Acts of the Apostles out as well?
6/15/2015 10:07:36 AM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
prophetic774 Winter Haven, FL 65, joined Feb. 2011	Ephesians 2:4-10: Because of His great love to us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is BY GRACE you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages He might show the incomparable riches of HIS GRACE, expressed in HIS KINDNESS to us in Christ Jesus. For it is BY GRACE you have been saved, THROUGH FAITH--and this is not from yourselves, it is the GIFT OF GOD--not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. 2 Timothy 2:9: God has saved us and called us to a holy life--not because of anything we have done but because of His own purpose and GRACE! Colossians 2:13-17: When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature. God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having cancelled the written code, with its regulations that was against us and stood opposed to us. He took it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath Day. These are a SHADOW of the things that were to come, the reality, however, is found in Christ. Galatians 3:23-25: "Before faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE LAW!!" WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE LAW!! Galatians 2:20,21: The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!" Galatians 3:10-13: "All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith." The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them." Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us! First He {Jesus} said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings You did not desire; nor were you pleased with them although the law required them to be made. Then He said, "Here I am, I have come to do Your will." He set aside the first to establish the SECOND. And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all! Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices which can never take away sins. But when this Priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, He sat down at the right hand of God. Galatians 5:4-6: You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from GRACE. But by FAITH we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope. For in Christ neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is FAITH expressing itself through LOVE! Hebrews 7:18,19: The former regulation is SET ASIDE because it was weak and useless; for the law made nothing perfect, and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.! Hebrews 8:8,9,13: "The time is coming." says the Lord, "when I will make a New Covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah".... By calling this Covenant "NEW", He has made the first one OBSOLETE; and what is OBSOLETE and aging will soon disappear." Hebrews 8:6: But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which He is Mediator is SUPERIOR TO THE OLD ONE, and it is founded on better promises. I Corinthians 9:21: I am not free from God's law but am under CHRIST'S LAW!!
6/15/2015 10:17:44 AM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
prophetic774 Winter Haven, FL 65, joined Feb. 2011	In CHIST'S LAW there are about 400 NT commands and God's saints obey these laws for 2 major reasons: In love because of the wonderful undeserved Free Gift God has given us of eternal life and because of the countless eternal REWARDS we will gain for seeking to obey all of *CHIST'S LAWS!! SALVATION IS 100% FREE BUT HEAVENLY REWARDS ARE 100% EARNED!!: Ephesians 2:8,9: For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the GIFT of God—not by works. So that no one can boast. Hebrews 11:1,6: Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see....And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to Him must believe that He exists and that He REWARDS those who earnestly seek Him!! Ephesians 6:8: Serve wholeheartedly , as if you were serving the Lord, not men, because you know that the Lord will REWARD everyone for what ever good he does!. Revelation 22:12 Jesus says, “Behold I am coming soon! My REWARD is with Me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done!” Matthew 16:27: Jesus says, “The Son of Man is going to come in His Father's glory with His angels and THEN He will REWARD each person according to what he has done!” 2 Corinthians 5:9,10: We make it our goal to please Him... for we must all appear before the Judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad. 1 Corinthians 3:13-15: His work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives , he will receive his REWARD. If it is burned up he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames. Colossians 3:23-25: Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men, siince you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a REWARD. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for his wrong, and there is no favoritism. How to Win Heavenly CROWNS: I Corinthians 9:24-27: Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. Everyone who competes in the games goes in to strict training. They do it to get a CROWN that will not last; but we do it to get a CROWN THAT WILL LAST FOREVER! Therefore, I do not run like a man running aimlessly. I do not fight like a man beating the air. No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize! 2 John 1:8: Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be REWARDED fully!. Revelation 3:11: Jesus says, “I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your CROWN!” 2 Timothy 4:7,8: I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Now there is in store for me the CROWN of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge,will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for His appearing! The CROWN of Life for those who persevere under trials and persecution: James 1:12: Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the CROWN OF LIFE that God has promised to those who love Him! Revelation 2:10 Jesus says, “Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer... Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the CROWN OF LIFE!” Matthew 5:11,12: Jesus says, “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your REWARD in heaven!” Hebrews 10:32-36: Remember those earlier days after you had received the Light, when you stood your ground in a great contest in the face of suffering. Sometimes you were publicly exposed to insult and persecution; at other times you stood side by side with those who were so treated. You sympathized with those in prison and joyfully accepted the confiscation of your property, because you knew that you yourselves had better and lasting possessions. So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly REWARDED. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you receive what He has promised!
6/15/2015 10:24:48 AM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
prophetic774 Winter Haven, FL 65, joined Feb. 2011	THE FATHER LOVES HIS FAITHFUL SAINTS JUST AS MUCH AS HE LOVES JESUS!! John 17:23: Jesus says to His Father, "You sent Me and have LOVED THEM even as you LOVED Me!!" JESUS LOVES HIS FAITHFUL SAINTS JUST AS MUCH AS THE FATHER LOVES HIM!! John 15:9,10" Jesus says, "As the Father LOVED Me, so I have LOVED you!! Now remain in My LOVE. IF you obey My commands, you will remain in My LOVE, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in His LOVE!" John 14:21,23: Jesus says, "Whoever has My commands and obeys them, he is the one who LOVES Me! He who loves Me will be LOVED by My Father, and I will LOVE him....If anyone LOVES Me, he will obey My teaching. My Father will LOVE him, and we will come to him and make Our home with him!!" WHAT'S LOVEGOT TO DO WITH IT?? I Peter 1:22: "Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere LOVE for your brothers, LOVE one another deeply, from the heart. For you have been born again... through the living and enduring Word of God! I Corinthians 13:2,4-8: If I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not LOVE I am nothing...LOVE is patient, LOVE is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. LOVE does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. LOVE never fails!!" John 13:34: Jesus says, "A NEW command I give you: LOVE one another As I have LOVED you, so you must LOVE** one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples." Matthew 28:19.20” Jesus commands, “Go and make disciples of all nations... teaching them to OBEY EVERYTHING I have commanded you!” {See I John 2:3-5} EVERYTHING would also include all the other commands in God's inspired Word from Acts to Revelation as per 2 Timothy 3:16: 4:2: "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work...Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction." If we really LOVE our brothers and sister in Christ we will lovingly teach them to obey all the approximately 400 commands of the NT with LOVE in the hope of countless eternal rewards when Jesus comes with great power with all His angels. Revelation 22:112: Jesus says,"Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with Me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done!? Matthew 16:27: Jesus says, For the Son of Man is going to come in His FATHER'S GLORY WITH HIS ANGELS, and THEN He will reward each person according to what he has done." Ephesians 4:15: "Speaking the Truth in LOVE, we will in all things grow up into Him who is the Head, that is, Christ! From Him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in LOVE, as each part does its work." Ephesians 3:17-19: "I pray that you, being rooted and established in LOVE may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the LOVE of Christ, and to know this LOVE that surpasses knowledge--that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God!!"
6/15/2015 12:23:41 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 65, joined Aug. 2010	Quote from visitingfriends: Quote Prophetic.. TNT To be consistent you must also believe that the Acts of he Apostles was not inspired by God since 17 of the 26 chapters {Chapters 9 and 13-28} are devoted to Paul's fantastic missionary journeys in spreading the Gospel. Now TNT says the following scripture is a HOAX which implies that the whole book of Acts is from Satan. Actually TNT believes that all Scripture which disagrees with his insane beliefs is from Satan including all the 14 books written by Paul, 2 Peter and the book of Acts!! ))) - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just wondering Steve why you do not address this part of Prophetic's post? This time I agree with Him. Are you ready to throw the Acts of the Apostles out as well? Visiting: You have simply given no evidence at all that the bread and wine actually turn into the Flesh and Blood of Christ. That one simple and flawed belief appears to be the only reason you hold on to the Catholic Church. It appears that you are on a pretend drunk from gorging on the flesh and blood. Yahweh said to not eat the blood of anything but you keep claiming to eat the blood of Christ. You are believeing and putting your faith in a church that claimed this sad and false story hundreds of years ago and at that time anyone that disagreed with that flawed story were called heretics and executed. Visiting: You simply need to put your trust in Yahweh and ease off on only trusting the man made denomination called the Catholic Church. You seem to be in a deep, foggy and dark cloud of confusion and it is clear to me that the Catholic Church has you in a death grip and will not turn loose. If I were you I would do my very best to get away from their deceptive teachings. You as well as the Catholic Church have been duped/beguiled/seduced into following the murderer, tare and false Apostle Paul and have abandoned the teachings of Moses, the Prophets, Yeshua and the true 12 Apostles. It is more than a surprise to me that you would continue to follow the silly letters and teachings of the strange false Apostle Paul. I have attempted to lift you out of your unwarranted trust of the deceitful Paul and back to the loving and kind arms of Moses, the Prophets, Yeshua and the true 12 Apostles. Steve
6/15/2015 12:47:20 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
masterweber Baton Rouge, LA 33, joined May. 2013	Quote from prophetic774: In CHIST'S LAW there are about 400 NT commands and God's saints obey these laws for 2 major reasons: In love because of the wonderful undeserved Free Gift God has given us of eternal life and because of the countless eternal REWARDS we will gain for seeking to obey all of *CHIST'S LAWS!! SALVATION IS 100% FREE BUT HEAVENLY REWARDS ARE 100% EARNED!!: Ephesians 2:8,9: For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the GIFT of God—not by works. So that no one can boast. Hebrews 11:1,6: Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see....And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to Him must believe that He exists and that He REWARDS those who earnestly seek Him!! Ephesians 6:8: Serve wholeheartedly , as if you were serving the Lord, not men, because you know that the Lord will REWARD everyone for what ever good he does!. Revelation 22:12 Jesus says, “Behold I am coming soon! My REWARD is with Me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done!” Matthew 16:27: Jesus says, “The Son of Man is going to come in His Father's glory with His angels and THEN He will REWARD each person according to what he has done!” 2 Corinthians 5:9,10: We make it our goal to please Him... for we must all appear before the Judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad. 1 Corinthians 3:13-15: His work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives , he will receive his REWARD. If it is burned up he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames. Colossians 3:23-25: Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men, siince you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a REWARD. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for his wrong, and there is no favoritism. How to Win Heavenly CROWNS: I Corinthians 9:24-27: Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. Everyone who competes in the games goes in to strict training. They do it to get a CROWN that will not last; but we do it to get a CROWN THAT WILL LAST FOREVER! Therefore, I do not run like a man running aimlessly. I do not fight like a man beating the air. No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize! 2 John 1:8: Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be REWARDED fully!. Revelation 3:11: Jesus says, “I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your CROWN!” 2 Timothy 4:7,8: I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Now there is in store for me the CROWN of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge,will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for His appearing! The CROWN of Life for those who persevere under trials and persecution: James 1:12: Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the CROWN OF LIFE that God has promised to those who love Him! Revelation 2:10 Jesus says, “Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer... Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the CROWN OF LIFE!” Matthew 5:11,12: Jesus says, “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your REWARD in heaven!” Hebrews 10:32-36: Remember those earlier days after you had received the Light, when you stood your ground in a great contest in the face of suffering. Sometimes you were publicly exposed to insult and persecution; at other times you stood side by side with those who were so treated. You sympathized with those in prison and joyfully accepted the confiscation of your property, because you knew that you yourselves had better and lasting possessions. So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly REWARDED. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you receive what He has promised! Christ don't have laws,in history they have ST john the judge of God Hewhay laws... Jesus is king Herod made up character because he was trying to hide his murdering the son of God st John the baptist... King Herod stated God didn't have a laments ground standards laws... King Herod and his made up Jesus is the cause of turning the judgement of God eternal bondage laws of force ground standards lament into a religion act..
6/15/2015 12:48:07 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
visitingfriends Evansville, WI 76, joined Jan. 2011	You still haven't answered the question Prophetic gave you about Acts. Are you avoiding it?
6/15/2015 1:41:22 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 65, joined Aug. 2010	Quote from visitingfriends: You still haven't answered the question Prophetic gave you about Acts. Are you avoiding it? Visiting: I am not avoiding answering either Prop or your questions any more than you and Prop are avoiding answering my questions. My questions again and plz show the verses in the Bible that prove your position: Why do you rest/worship on Sunday when the true Seventh Day Sabbath is Saturday? Why do you believe that Yahweh's forbidden unclean animals were cleansed and can be eaten? Why do you believe you believe that Yahweh's Holy Days are not to be observed/honored? Why do you believe that Yahweh's Laws/Torah was done away with? Why do you beieve that circumcision of the flesh was done away with? Why do you believe Paul was a true Apostle? Why do you believe the Catholic Church when they don't follow Moses, the Prophets, Yeshua or the true 12 Apostles? Why do you believe the bread and wine are the actual Flesh and Blood of Christ when there is no element or physical change and no taste change? It appears to me that you have been misled/beguiled/seduced by the tare Paul. You also appear to be in love with Paul instead of Yahweh. Who was the most important in the Bible: Moses, the Prophets, Yeshua and the 12 Apostles or the false Apostle Paul? Steve
6/15/2015 2:02:31 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
visitingfriends Evansville, WI 76, joined Jan. 2011	So in your mind the best defense is a good offence. It is you who don't accept any of Paul's writings, so you try to take away over half of a persons proof by taking away over half of the new testament. By using the validity of Acts that also verifies Paul's writings makes it so we can prove what you ask. So to prove all of our stances we need ALL of the bible to do so. You on the other hand say O' that's from part of the bible I do not accept. So to be able to build a case one has to start someplace. Why not the Acts of the Apostles and how it approves of Paul's vast ministry?
6/15/2015 2:42:26 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
visitingfriends Evansville, WI 76, joined Jan. 2011	I guess I have to accept the Apostle Peters word for Paul and also Luke who also accepts Paul. The Apostle Peter certainly treated Paul's letters as God's word, elevating them to the status of written scripture: He [Paul] writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. 2 Peter 3:16 I would accept their opinions over some of the off the wall writers you have posted and given them status over Biblical writers.
6/15/2015 3:15:54 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
prophetic774 Winter Haven, FL 65, joined Feb. 2011	TNT To be consistent you must also believe that the Acts of he Apostles was not inspired by God since 17 of the 26 chapters {Chapters 9 and 13-28} are devoted to Paul's fantastic missionary journeys in spreading the Gospel. Now TNT says the following scripture is a HOAX which implies that the whole book of Acts is from Satan. Actually TNT believes that all Scripture which disagrees with his insane beliefs is from Satan including all the 14 books written by Paul, 2 Peter and the book of Acts!! ))) However all true Christians believe that Luke was also inspired by God to write Acts 9:3-6,15,16: As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me?" "Who are you Lord?" Saul asked. "I am Jesus who you are persecuting. He replied. Now get up and go into the city and you will be told what to do.....The Lord said to Ananias, "Go! This man is *MY CHOSEN INSTRUMENT* to carry My Name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel!!" TNT: You must also believe that the following words of Jesus were inspired by Satan since they changed the Law of Moses!! Mark 7:18,19: "Are you so dull? Jesus asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside cam make him unclean? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." In saying this Jesus declared ALL FOODS CLEAN!! Matthew 5:38,39: Jesus says, "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.{As per Leviticus 24:19,20} But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also!" Matthew 5:33-37" Jesus says, Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, {in the OT LAW as per Exodus 13:19; 22:11} 'Do not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.' But I tell you. Do not swear at all; either by heaven or by the earth...Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and you 'No,' 'No,; anything beyond this comes FROM THE EVIL ONE!!"{See James 5:12} There were 26 OT laws for stoning people to death for committing adultery, lighting a fire on the Sabbath etc. But Jesus cancelled these 26 OT laws when He said in John 8:7, "He who is without sin cast the first stone!!" John 8:3-11: The Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery they made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women {As per Leviticu3 20:10} Now what do you say?".... Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with His finger. Jesus said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."...At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there . Jesus asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" "No one Sir, she said. then neither do I condemn you!!" Thus doing away with the 26 laws of Moses for putting people to death. Jesus also put an end to thousands of animal sacrifices according to dozens of the laws of Moses for sin by the sacrifice of Himself!!!
6/15/2015 3:18:24 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
prophetic774 Winter Haven, FL 65, joined Feb. 2011	Did Peter just like Paul teach that you don't have to be circumcised and obey all the Laws of Moses and that we are saved by God's GRACE AND GREAT MERCYTHROUH FAITH!! Acts 15 :5-11: Some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses?" The apostles and elders met to consider this question. After much discussion, PETER got up and addressed them: "Brothers you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from their lips the message of the gospel and believe. God, who knows the heart showed that He accepted them by giving them the Holy Spirit to them, just as He did to us. He made no distinction between us and them, for He purified their hearts BY FAITH. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a YOKE {Referring to the law of Moses above} that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? No! We believe it is THROUGH THE GRACE of our Lord Jesus that we are saved just as they are!!" I Peter 1:3-5: PETER said, "Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In His GREAT MERCY He has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade--kept in heaven for you, who THROUGH FAITH** are shielded by God's power! And John and Jesus agrees with both Paul and Peter!!! John 6:37-40,44: Jesus says, "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will NEVER drive away...For My Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the Last Day...No one can come to Me UNLESS* the Father who sent Me draws them, and I will raise them up at the Last Day!" John 1:12,13: Yet to all who received Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God--children born not of natural descent, NOR OF HUMAN DECISION or a husband's will, but born of God!
6/15/2015 3:28:52 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 65, joined Aug. 2010	Quote from visitingfriends: So in your mind the best defense is a good offence. It is you who don't accept any of Paul's writings, so you try to take away over half of a persons proof by taking away over half of the new testament. By using the validity of Acts that also verifies Paul's writings makes it so we can prove what you ask. So to prove all of our stances we need ALL of the bible to do so. You on the other hand say O' that's from part of the bible I do not accept. So to be able to build a case one has to start someplace. Why not the Acts of the Apostles and how it approves of Paul's vast ministry? Visiting: Yes, you have amazingly finally discovered the problem. Paul was the very one that taught all the silly things that you and the Catholic Church agree and believe in and you simply cannot prove what you believe without using the verses of the murderer, tare and false Apostle Paul. You cannot prove the things that you believe from the teachings of Moses, the Prophets, Yeshua and the 12 True Apostles. If you cannot prove your beliefs without using the false teachings of Paul then that means your beliefs are totally incorrect/wrong. That also means that you believe Paul and not the teachings of the Patriarchs of the Bible. You are simply a Paulinian and not a CHRISTian. I would think it is about time you are waking up to the strange and false teachings of Paul. I have pointed out what is wrong with your beliefs and the beliefs of the Catholic Church. If I were you I would start following the teachings of Moses, the Prophets, Yeshua and the true 12 Apostles while there is still time to do so. I would guess you have followed the antichrist Paul long enough. Anyone that teaches the opposite of what Yahweh taught is an antichrist and Paul fits that description very well. Just before Christ was crucified He said it would not be long before someone would come teaching false doctrine. It didn't take Paul very long to appear on the scene after Christ was Crucified and Paul taught a totally different message/doctrine than Christ. Mark 13:22 - For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if [it were] possible, even the elect. Matthew 24:24 - For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Steve
6/15/2015 3:38:04 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 65, joined Aug. 2010	Visting wrote: He [Paul] writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. 2 Peter 3:16 Visiting: Like I have said before: Biblical scholars do not accept Second Peter as being written by Peter. If you can only find one verse of the New Teastament, and that being from a highly questionable source, that gives the least amount of supports for Paul besides Paul's letters of boastings and Paul's best buddy Luke, who was not an Apostle, then you have a pitifully weak case. Steve
6/15/2015 4:17:22 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
visitingfriends Evansville, WI 76, joined Jan. 2011	I will take their word (Peter and Luke) a lot better then the off the wall people you have quoted on here. If that is the case I do not see you and I having a dialog of any sorts. May God have mercy on you. You have become your own little pope and giving yourself authority over scripture. You need to go back and study Christianity from the beginning and hopefully God will remove your blindness. I pray for you.
6/15/2015 4:23:51 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
prophetic774 Winter Haven, FL 65, joined Feb. 2011	In Colossians 4:14 Paul said, "Our dear friend Luke, the doctor, and Demas send greetings!" In 2 Timothy 4:11 Paul said "Luke is with me!" In Philemon 23,24 Paul said Epaphras, my fellow prisoner in Christ Jesus, send you greetings. And so do Mark, Demas and Luke, MY FELLOW WORKERS!" So TNT we can understand why you also trash the writings of Luke in the Gospel of Luke and in the Acts of the Apostles!! And so TNT has trashed the Gospel of Luke, the Acts of the Apostles, all 14 books written by Paul and Second Peter. So far TNT has TRASHED 17 out of the 27 books in the NEW TESTAMENT OF JESUS CHRIST !! TNT has also TRASHED the following Words of Peter in 1 Peter and the following words of John and Jesus: Did Peter just like Paul teach that you don't have to be circumcised and obey all the Laws of Moses and that we are saved by God's GRACE AND GREAT MERCYTHROUGH FAITH!! Acts 15 :5-11: Some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses?" The apostles and elders met to consider this question. After much discussion, PETER got up and addressed them: "Brothers you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from their lips the message of the gospel and believe. God, who knows the heart showed that He accepted them by giving them the Holy Spirit to them, just as He did to us. He made no distinction between us and them, for He purified their hearts BY FAITH. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a YOKE {Referring to the law of Moses above} that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? No! We believe it is THROUGH THE GRACE of our Lord Jesus that we are saved just as they are!!" I Peter 1:3-5: PETER said, "Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In His GREAT MERCY He has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade--kept in heaven for you, who THROUGH FAITH** are shielded by God's power! And John and Jesus agrees with both Paul and Peter!!! John 6:37-40,44: Jesus says, "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will NEVER drive away...For My Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the Last Day...No one can come to Me UNLESS* the Father who sent Me draws them, and I will raise them up at the Last Day!" John 1:12,13: Yet to all who received Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God--children born not of natural descent, NOR OF HUMAN DECISION or a husband's will, but born of God! So it is quite obvious that the writings of TNT are absolute Satanic TRASH!!
6/15/2015 4:32:17 PM	The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False!
prophetic774 Winter Haven, FL 65, joined Feb. 2011	TNT has also trashed any Scripture which tries to change any of the laws of Moses! Such as: TNT: You must also believe that the following words of Jesus were inspired by Satan since they changed OT Law: Mark 7:18,19: "Are you so dull? Jesus asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside cam make him unclean? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." In saying this Jesus declared ALL FOODS CLEAN!! Matthew 5:38,39: Jesus says, "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.{As per Leviticus 24:19,20} But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also!" Matthew 5:33-37" Jesus says, Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, {in the OT LAW} 'Do not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.' But I tell you. Do not swear at all; either by heaven or by the earth...Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and you 'No,' 'No,; anything beyond this comes FROM THE EVIL ONE!!"{See James 5:12} There were 26 OT laws for stoning people to death for committing adultery, lighting a fire on the Sabbath etc. But Jesus cancelled these 26 OT laws when He said in John 8:7, "He who is without sin cast the first stone!!" Jesus also put an end to thousands of animal sacrifices for sin according to dozens of the laws of Moses by the sacrifice of Himself!!!

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