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4/24/2016 11:58:58 PM Muslims in America  
Yasureoktoo
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,468)
Seattle, WA
61, joined Dec. 2014


Even the dumb ones get the message.







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4/25/2016 12:48:30 AM Muslims in America  

stregaleonora
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,585)
Atlanta, GA
40, joined Jun. 2014


More about this beautiful religion of peace.




4/25/2016 5:36:06 AM Muslims in America  

aphrodisianus
Over 1,000 Posts (1,600)
Leander, TX
66, joined Oct. 2013


Atrocities have always been committed by Christians and by the millions. Christians invented gruesome tortures, not a quick death.

4/25/2016 6:04:10 AM Muslims in America  

olderthandirt20
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,021)
Waldron, AR
69, joined Jul. 2014


Judeo-christianity's handbook is rife with smiting thine enemies,the unfaithful,non virgin brides and nonbelievers.
So to with the many offshoots/derivatives of this hideous cult.



[Edited 4/25/2016 6:05:04 AM ]

4/25/2016 6:59:24 AM Muslims in America  

asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,589)
Sanbornton, NH
60, joined Jul. 2012


Murder by numbers, How to start a war:

"10 easy steps to create an enemy and start a war:
Listen closely because we will all see this weapon used in our lives.
It can be used on a society of the most ignorant to the most highly educated.
We need to see these tactics as a weapon against humanity and not as truth.

First step: Create the enemy. Sometimes this will be done for you.

Second step: Be sure the enemy that you have chosen is nothing like you. Find obvious differences like race, language, religion, dietary habits fashion.
Emphasize that their soldiers are not doing a job, they are heartless murderers who enjoy killing!

Third step: Once these differences are established continue to reinforce them with all disseminated information.

Fourth step: Have the media broadcast only the ruling party’s information this can be done through state-run media. Remember, in times of conflict all for-profit media repeats the ruling party’s information. Therefore all for-profit media is state-run.

Fifth step: Show this enemy in actions that seem strange, militant, or different. Always portray the enemy as non-human, evil, a killing machine.

Sixth step: Eliminate opposition to the ruling party. Create an “Us versus Them” mentality. Leave no room for opinions in between. One that does not support all actions of the ruling party should be considered a traitor.

Seventh step: Use nationalistic and/or religious symbols and rhetoric to define all actions. This can be achieved with slogans such as “freedom loving people versus those who hate freedom.” This can also be achieved with the use of flags.

Eighth step: Align all actions with a dominant deity. It is very effective to use terms like, “It is god’s will” or “god bless our nation.”

Ninth step: Design propaganda to show that your soldiers have feelings, hopes, families, and loved ones. Make it clear that your soldiers are doing a duty; they do not want or like to kill.

Tenth step: Create an atmosphere of fear, and instability then offer the ruling party as the only solution to comfort the public’s fears. Remembering the fear of the unknown is always the strongest fear.

We are not countries. We are not nations. We are not religions. We are not gods. We are not weapons. We are not ammunition. We are not killers. We will NOT be tools."

http://planet.infowars.com/politics/10-easy-steps-to-create-an-enemy-and-start-a-war

4/25/2016 7:52:12 AM Muslims in America  

stregaleonora
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,585)
Atlanta, GA
40, joined Jun. 2014


Quote from aphrodisianus:
Atrocities have always been committed by Christians and by the millions. Christians invented gruesome tortures, not a quick death.


Ok but Christians stopped with torturing and mass killing after the Middle Age was over.

Insteam Muslims do those atrocities still TODAY.

Don't you think you should take this fact into consideration when comparing Muslims to other religions????????

4/25/2016 7:54:44 AM Muslims in America  

stregaleonora
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,585)
Atlanta, GA
40, joined Jun. 2014


Quote from asanb:
Murder by numbers, How to start a war:

"10 easy steps to create an enemy and start a war:
Listen closely because we will all see this weapon used in our lives.
It can be used on a society of the most ignorant to the most highly educated.
We need to see these tactics as a weapon against humanity and not as truth.

First step: Create the enemy. Sometimes this will be done for you.

Second step: Be sure the enemy that you have chosen is nothing like you. Find obvious differences like race, language, religion, dietary habits fashion.
Emphasize that their soldiers are not doing a job, they are heartless murderers who enjoy killing!

Third step: Once these differences are established continue to reinforce them with all disseminated information.

Fourth step: Have the media broadcast only the ruling party’s information this can be done through state-run media. Remember, in times of conflict all for-profit media repeats the ruling party’s information. Therefore all for-profit media is state-run.

Fifth step: Show this enemy in actions that seem strange, militant, or different. Always portray the enemy as non-human, evil, a killing machine.

Sixth step: Eliminate opposition to the ruling party. Create an “Us versus Them” mentality. Leave no room for opinions in between. One that does not support all actions of the ruling party should be considered a traitor.

Seventh step: Use nationalistic and/or religious symbols and rhetoric to define all actions. This can be achieved with slogans such as “freedom loving people versus those who hate freedom.” This can also be achieved with the use of flags.

Eighth step: Align all actions with a dominant deity. It is very effective to use terms like, “It is god’s will” or “god bless our nation.”

Ninth step: Design propaganda to show that your soldiers have feelings, hopes, families, and loved ones. Make it clear that your soldiers are doing a duty; they do not want or like to kill.

Tenth step: Create an atmosphere of fear, and instability then offer the ruling party as the only solution to comfort the public’s fears. Remembering the fear of the unknown is always the strongest fear.

We are not countries. We are not nations. We are not religions. We are not gods. We are not weapons. We are not ammunition. We are not killers. We will NOT be tools."

http://planet.infowars.com/politics/10-easy-steps-to-create-an-enemy-and-start-a-war



...how stupid!

4/25/2016 8:01:42 AM Muslims in America  

stregaleonora
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,585)
Atlanta, GA
40, joined Jun. 2014


Muslims are not happy with penetrating children and goats so now they want also give blow jobs to the infidels before to behead them.



4/25/2016 9:03:33 AM Muslims in America  

nonstandard
Over 2,000 Posts (3,395)
York, PA
53, joined Jun. 2009


Quote from stregaleonora:
You talk nonsense like someone who is trippin' on crack!


But get down in the real world LibTard!


The physical universe is the real world , our societies , and our personas , are images .

We don't know anything , beyond what our physical universe reveals to us . It can inspire imagination , and creativity , but they're still only images of the real thing .

I know I'm a beast , and if you want to act like one , the least you can do , is admit it too . There are no angels , or saints , on here .

4/25/2016 9:13:34 AM Muslims in America  

nonstandard
Over 2,000 Posts (3,395)
York, PA
53, joined Jun. 2009


"An eye for an eye , makes the whole world blind"

4/25/2016 9:29:40 AM Muslims in America  

asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,589)
Sanbornton, NH
60, joined Jul. 2012


Quote from stregaleonora:
...how stupid!

Indeed

The way to defeat ISIS and radical Islam is to get Muslims to reject it. Fomenting conflict by insinuating that All Muslims are evil doesn't make that happen. What does?

4/25/2016 11:03:22 AM Muslims in America  
Yasureoktoo
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,468)
Seattle, WA
61, joined Dec. 2014


Quote from asanb:
Indeed

The way to defeat ISIS and radical Islam is to get Muslims to reject it. Fomenting conflict by insinuating that All Muslims are evil doesn't make that happen. What does?


Wait a minute,

How do you propose that.

ISIS is doing exactly what muhammed ordered.

You are saying to get muslims to reject muhammed.

4/25/2016 11:18:54 AM Muslims in America  
Yasureoktoo
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,468)
Seattle, WA
61, joined Dec. 2014


Quote from asanb:
Indeed

The way to defeat ISIS and radical Islam is to get Muslims to reject it. Fomenting conflict by insinuating that All Muslims are evil doesn't make that happen. What does?


And nobody said all muslims are evil.

All "ISLAM' is evil

4/25/2016 12:49:34 PM Muslims in America  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (22,066)
Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


I agree that Muslims should be taught how ugly and hateful their hero Muhammed was, so that they might reject him in favor of the Good Lord Jesus Christ.

4/25/2016 4:06:07 PM Muslims in America  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,606)
Kingman, AZ
87, joined May. 2012
online now!


Quote from ludlowlowell:
I agree that Muslims should be taught how ugly and hateful their hero Muhammed was, so that they might reject him in favor of the Good Lord Jesus Christ.


Your church rejects "the Good Lord Jesus Christ," and refuses to do as He says, willfully disobeying and defying Him.

Your church honors Him with its lips.

Mat 15:8-9 These [Catholics] draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. ...in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

"Call no man your father upon the earth: "for one is your Father, which is in heaven." (Matthew 23:9)

"Why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46)

“Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.” (Mark 7:9)

"If a man love me, he will keep my words."(John 14:23)
"He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings." (John 14:24)

And the word which you have heard, is not mine; but the Father's who sent me." (John 14:24)

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (1 John 2:4)

4/25/2016 5:59:53 PM Muslims in America  
Yasureoktoo
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,468)
Seattle, WA
61, joined Dec. 2014


Quote from ludlowlowell:
I agree that Muslims should be taught how ugly and hateful their hero Muhammed was, so that they might reject him in favor of the Good Lord Jesus Christ.


I would say reject him in favor of any religion, if you are really dependent on
"Sky Daddy's".

Just reject him if you have any morals whatsoever.

4/25/2016 9:11:11 PM Muslims in America  

asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,589)
Sanbornton, NH
60, joined Jul. 2012


“God does not forbid you from being good to those who have not fought you in the religion or driven you from your homes, or from being just towards them. God loves those who are just.” (Surat al-Mumtahana, 8)

“We have appointed a law and a practice for every one of you. Had God willed, He would have made you a single community, but He wanted to test you regarding what has come to you. So compete with each other in doing good. Every one of you will return to God and He will inform you regarding the things about which you differed.” (Surat al-Ma’ida, 48)

""If people are intent on using religion to motivate terror or violence, they'll find an excuse there no matter what the actual text says," says David Rodier of American University in Washington, D.C., who is an expert on the world's religions. Like the Koran, he says, most holy scriptures are filled with stories of war and warriors, and these images have been used throughout history by some members of every faith to justify bloodshed. "Religion, after all, speaks to our most basic and ultimate convictions, and if you are wanting to use violence, if you can find a religious justification, then you can find a very powerful motivation," says Rodier.

"The strong person is not the good wrestler. Rather,the strong person is the one who controls himself when he is angry.
(Sahih al-Bukhari, Book 73, #135)”

“Declare your jihad on thirteen enemies you cannot see -egoism, arrogance, conceit, selfishness, greed, lust, intolerance, anger, lying, cheating, gossiping and slandering. If you can master and destroy them, then you will be read to fight the enemy you can see.”
- Al-Ghazali

4/26/2016 1:41:00 AM Muslims in America  

stregaleonora
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,585)
Atlanta, GA
40, joined Jun. 2014


Quote from asanb:
Indeed

The way to defeat ISIS and radical Islam is to get Muslims to reject it. Fomenting conflict by insinuating that All Muslims are evil doesn't make that happen. What does?


You are not going to win evil by hiding the truth.
We had enough of political correctness...and above everything IT DOES NOT WORK.

In my opinion the way to get Muslims get out of that violent religion from hell, is to let them know what Islam is really about. Because most Muslims don't know.

Islam uses fear to control people. Fear and ignorance.
Why do you think they convert people to Islam mostly in prison?
Because prisoners tend to have very little schooling and so they have no a clue what they get into!

Ayaan Ali was born Muslim. She had FGM and when adult escaped from her village and left Islam. She lives in England hidden because she has been condemned to death.
She spends her life to write about Islam, so people will know. She converted many Muslims, and she belped them to hide because they have been hunted because of their conversion.
She is the HERO, no the a**holes who cover up the truth.




In this world we need more truth. We have enough lies already.

4/26/2016 1:48:37 AM Muslims in America  

stregaleonora
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,585)
Atlanta, GA
40, joined Jun. 2014


Quote from nonstandard:
"An eye for an eye , makes the whole world blind"


You are missing the whole point!
Here is not about something stupid like an eye for an eye!
I wish it was that simple!

There is an ongoing process which is leading the world to destruction and slavery, bigotry and violence.

This is about to slow down, stop and reverse this evil process: stop Islamization.

The way to stop this evil is by starting to tell the truth snd stop lying because of fear.

4/26/2016 2:12:21 AM Muslims in America  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,606)
Kingman, AZ
87, joined May. 2012
online now!


Quote from Yasureoktoo:
I would say reject him in favor of any religion, if you are really dependent on
"Sky Daddy's".

Just reject him if you have any morals whatsoever.


That really should be "Sky Daddies."

Just sayin'.

4/26/2016 3:55:30 AM Muslims in America  
Yasureoktoo
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,468)
Seattle, WA
61, joined Dec. 2014


Quote from stregaleonora:

In my opinion the way to get Muslims get out of that violent religion from hell, is to let them know what Islam is really about. Because most Muslims don't know.

.


This is something I have been stressing all the time, and it applies to non-muslims also.

Instead of catering to the wishes of an evil cult, put the information out there for all to see. Make the public aware of the contents of the religion, call them out, when they publicly lie about the religion to the west.

Too many people are unaware that when good verses are pointed out, and yes, there are some, they only apply to the muslim, and more specifically, the branch the person is in.

The ounce of goodness, does not outweigh, the mountain of evil.

4/26/2016 2:46:19 PM Muslims in America  

stregaleonora
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,585)
Atlanta, GA
40, joined Jun. 2014


There are many Muslims who would like to get out of Islam but they are scared.
In fact Islam uses fear against people.

Even if Muslims who abandon Islam have not been killed they are still being harassed and persecuted by the Muslim community. And that happens in America, in UK, in Australia and so on.

4/26/2016 2:48:50 PM Muslims in America  

asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,589)
Sanbornton, NH
60, joined Jul. 2012


Quote from stregaleonora:
You are not going to win evil by hiding the truth.
We had enough of political correctness...and above everything IT DOES NOT WORK.

In my opinion the way to get Muslims get out of that violent religion from hell, is to let them know what Islam is really about. Because most Muslims don't know.

And you will create effective communication to do that by defiling them and spouting bigoted rant? Educating people doesn't begin with alienating them. And it helps to base your argument on Facts and not hysteria.
They don't know the truth about what the Quran says even though it is recited many times at the mosque?
Who the Hell are you to tell a Muslim what the Quran says?
Why would any Muslim listen to a hateful post beginning the way this one does?


Islam uses fear to control people. Fear and ignorance.

So do religious and political recruiters from every cause. YOU ARE DOING THE SAME THING!
Every post is about "Be Afraid of those awful Muslims".

Why do you think they convert people to Islam mostly in prison?
Because prisoners tend to have very little schooling and so they have no a clue what they get into!


Really? I think you need to come up with some facts to back that one up. It's true that Radicalism, extremism and terrorism of all kinds breed in ignorance and poverty, and that's true all over the world in or out of prison. So how do we spread wealth and knowledge to the underprivileged? Wouldn't that neutralize recruitment?

Ayaan Ali was born Muslim. She had FGM and when adult escaped from her village and left Islam. She lives in England hidden because she has been condemned to death.
She spends her life to write about Islam, so people will know. She converted many Muslims, and she belped them to hide because they have been hunted because of their conversion.
She is the HERO, no the a**holes who cover up the truth.

so what? Hateful rhetoric won't solve her problem or anyone else's



In this world we need more truth. We have enough lies already.




Yes, we do. It doesn't help your cause at all to adulterate, embellish, and twist Islam to try to prove a point. Stick to the truth and not silly emotional rants.

4/26/2016 2:58:30 PM Muslims in America  

asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,589)
Sanbornton, NH
60, joined Jul. 2012


It’s easy to love a perfect God, unblemished and infallible that He is. What is far more difficult is to love fellow human being with all their imperfections and defects. Remember, one can only know what one is capable of loving. There is no wisdom without love. Unless we learn to love God’s creation, we can neither truly love nor truly know God.



Real faith is the one inside. The rest simply washes off. There is only one type of dirt that cannot be cleansed with pure water, and that is the stain of hatred and bigotry contaminating the soul. You can purify your body through abstinence and fasting, but only love will purify your heart.

Shames of Tabris, a Muslim Saint.

There is no love in this discourse. Nothing to attract anyone of noble intent or higher purpose. Not even Love for Jesus as it does not reflect his teachings, Or atheist Humanism, that at least expects people to respect each other. Be the example of what you are trying to teach.

4/26/2016 3:51:34 PM Muslims in America  

stregaleonora
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,585)
Atlanta, GA
40, joined Jun. 2014


You completely misunderstood everything I wrote.

What is you name?
Ansab?

You are a total idiot.

4/26/2016 4:04:42 PM Muslims in America  
Yasureoktoo
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,468)
Seattle, WA
61, joined Dec. 2014


Quote from asanb:


.And you will create effective communication to do that by defiling them and spouting bigoted rant? Educating people doesn't begin with alienating them. And it helps to base your argument on Facts and not hysteria.
They don't know the truth about what the Quran says even though it is recited many times at the mosque?
Who the Hell are you to tell a Muslim what the Quran says?
Why would any Muslim listen to a hateful post beginning the way this one does?



Whoooo

Back the truck up.
Nobody has to tell a muslim, or anyone else, what the Qur'an says
All you have to do is read it, and read it correctly.

4/26/2016 4:06:44 PM Muslims in America  
Yasureoktoo
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,468)
Seattle, WA
61, joined Dec. 2014


Quote from asanb:
It doesn't help your cause at all to adulterate, embellish, and twist Islam to try to prove a point. Stick to the truth and not silly emotional rants.


If I recall, it is you who is trying to twist what Islam says.

I say we all cut the bullshit, and stick with the truth.

4/26/2016 5:55:48 PM Muslims in America  

asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,589)
Sanbornton, NH
60, joined Jul. 2012


Quote from stregaleonora:
You completely misunderstood everything I wrote.

What is you name?
Ansab?

You are a total idiot.

A response fitting your inability to defend your position and lack of grasp of the issue.

4/26/2016 6:11:42 PM Muslims in America  

asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,589)
Sanbornton, NH
60, joined Jul. 2012


Quote from Yasureoktoo:
If I recall, it is you who is trying to twist what Islam says.

I say we all cut the bullshit, and stick with the truth.

If it agrees with your truth?

From my point of view, you spread conveniently doctored "information" about Islam to spread hate, based solely on what's Written, or questionable interpretations of it.
It's a matter of perspective. You call me a Liar, but know nothing of my perspective. I have given reference to my sources that you call "Modern day Charlatan" in total ignorance of his works.
Your references are Rare and unobtainable copies of old books that explain all.
Mine are freely published on the web for all to read.
Would you buy a used car with your kind of "take my word for it" references?

I point to real world instances of Muslims who are more than exemplary spiritual guides who are firmly based in Islam as refutation of your proposals, and you deny it outright without due deliberation. don't confuse you with facts? .

4/26/2016 6:14:33 PM Muslims in America  

asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,589)
Sanbornton, NH
60, joined Jul. 2012


Quote from stregaleonora:
You completely misunderstood everything I wrote.

What is you name?
Ansab?

You are a total idiot.


I completely understood your original post. It is a testament to Bigotry and intolerance.
Now a personal attack? How small.

4/26/2016 6:17:57 PM Muslims in America  

asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,589)
Sanbornton, NH
60, joined Jul. 2012


Quote from Yasureoktoo:
If I recall, it is you who is trying to twist what Islam says.


site a post that Twists Islam?

I say we all cut the bullshit, and stick with the truth.


I say the same

4/26/2016 6:23:31 PM Muslims in America  

asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,589)
Sanbornton, NH
60, joined Jul. 2012


Quote from Yasureoktoo:
Whoooo

Back the truck up.
Nobody has to tell a muslim, or anyone else, what the Qur'an says
All you have to do is read it, and read it correctly.


Read it with respect to "Jim's correct interpretation of ancient Arabic scripture"? HMMMM

If she want's to post that she is "educating Muslims about the Quran, the comment is most on point.

4/26/2016 6:30:44 PM Muslims in America  
Yasureoktoo
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,468)
Seattle, WA
61, joined Dec. 2014


All of your posts regarding Sufi. twists Islam into something it is not, and 95 percent of the muslims on earth will kill you for it, Or at least if they do not pull the trigger, they are in the group that will.


And Why are you trying to make interpretation an issue.
The religion reads pretty plainly, there is nothing to interpret.

That is false to begin with.

It has nothing to do with interpretation, but rather, manipulation.

4/26/2016 6:34:49 PM Muslims in America  
Yasureoktoo
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,468)
Seattle, WA
61, joined Dec. 2014


Quote from asanb:
If it agrees with your truth?

From my point of view, you spread conveniently doctored "information" about Islam to spread hate, based solely on what's Written, or questionable interpretations of it.
It's a matter of perspective. You call me a Liar, but know nothing of my perspective. I have given reference to my sources that you call "Modern day Charlatan" in total ignorance of his works.
Your references are Rare and unobtainable copies of old books that explain all.
Mine are freely published on the web for all to read.
Would you buy a used car with your kind of "take my word for it" references?

I point to real world instances of Muslims who are more than exemplary spiritual guides who are firmly based in Islam as refutation of your proposals, and you deny it outright without due deliberation. don't confuse you with facts? .


This is one of the biggest piles of shit you wrote.

NOTHING I POST IS DOCTERED, IT IS STRAIGHT FROM THE TEXT.

My references are the books that "ALL" of Islam is written from.


You, on the other hand, are posting modern day re-writings of the religion, that the overwhelming majority of muslims do not follow, and will kill you for even attempting to preach.

4/26/2016 6:54:54 PM Muslims in America  
Yasureoktoo
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,468)
Seattle, WA
61, joined Dec. 2014


And My references are

Qur'an, I use the top 5 translations, but I prefer Nobel, because it is in all the mosques.

Ishaq's, Sirat rasual Allah, It is downloadable online, and for sale in muslim stores and internet.

The History of AlTaburi, Last I checked it is not available online, and naturally because Islam does not want the Kaffir reading it. But it is available in book form.

Bukhari, Is available online, or in book form.

Muslim, is available online, or in book form.


We can ad this rebuttal to counter another of your chronic lies about references.


BTW, Muhammed himself, gave orders not to carry written documentation of the religion, lest it falls in the hands of the enemy.

4/26/2016 9:04:18 PM Muslims in America  

asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,589)
Sanbornton, NH
60, joined Jul. 2012


Quote from Yasureoktoo:
All of your posts regarding Sufi. twists Islam into something it is not, and 95 percent of the muslims on earth will kill you for it, Or at least if they do not pull the trigger, they are in the group that will.

If this is so , why has there not been an uproar from the Muslim community to ban or burn the books of Rumi, Shams of Tabriz, Hafiz, Al-Ghazali, and the long list of Sufi masters.
Why are the publications of the modern Sufi orders not subject to the same? And the History of the Sufi isn't suppressed.

And Why are you trying to make interpretation an issue.
The religion reads pretty plainly, there is nothing to interpret.

That is false to begin with.

It has nothing to do with interpretation, but rather, manipulation.


All of my quotes from Sufis, Are from Sufis, And they represent the wrings and sayings of the spiritual core of Islam, the Sufi. If they shed doubt on popular veiws and interpretations of Islam, then perhaps your interpretation is incorrect.

4/26/2016 9:15:35 PM Muslims in America  

asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,589)
Sanbornton, NH
60, joined Jul. 2012


HAFIZ (1320—-1389 A.D.)—A great Persian Saint-poet born at Shiraz. Hafiz is the pen name which means 'one who knows Koran by heart'. His real name was Shams-ud-Din Mohammed which means 'Sun of the Religion founded by Prophet Mohammed'. Hafiz enjoys great popularity among the Muslims and Hindus alike both as a saint as well as a poet.

MAULANA RUMI, Jalal-ud-Din (1207-73)—The famous author of the greatest mystic poem called Masnavi or Mathnawi. He was just a school teacher (Maulvi) but under the powerful influence of his spiritual guide and preceptor, Shamas Tabrezi, he very soon rose to the eminent position of a great spiritual guide (Maulana) and became a teacher of mankind, in the higher (spiritual) values of life. Immediately on his death, he was worshipped as a Saint.

Saadi Shirazi
Poet
Abu-Muhammad Muslih al-Din bin Abdallah Shirazi, better known by his pen-name Saadi, also known as Saadi of Shiraz, was one of the major Persian poets and literary men of the medieval period.- "Whenever you argue with another wiser than yourself in order that others may admire your wisdom, they will discover your ignorance."

4/26/2016 9:50:16 PM Muslims in America  
Yasureoktoo
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No. That is absolutely incorrect. In fact look at the dates of the people you mentioned.

You are speaking of an offshoot of Islam, that is mostly Zoastranism anyways.

There are lots of offshoots of Islam, most of which have already been killed off.

You are speaking of an offshoot, that you are claiming represents Islam, which it does not.

You are speaking of an offshoot, that is probably pretty good, compared to Islam.

You are speaking of an offshoot, that has removed the main person, and replaced it with another, straight out of the imagination, with nothing to verify it, and all to deny it.

4/26/2016 9:57:35 PM Muslims in America  
Yasureoktoo
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,468)
Seattle, WA
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Your argument has as much credibility as saying
The snake handlers represent Christianity.
Or the speaking in tongues represent Christianity.

4/26/2016 10:35:05 PM Muslims in America  

stregaleonora
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,585)
Atlanta, GA
40, joined Jun. 2014


Quote from asanb:
A response fitting your inability to defend your position and lack of grasp of the issue.


The issue have been repeated to you over and over again but you don't get it.

4/26/2016 10:41:42 PM Muslims in America  
Yasureoktoo
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,468)
Seattle, WA
61, joined Dec. 2014


Quote from stregaleonora:
The issue have been repeated to you over and over again but you don't get it.


And proven whenever necessary, but he still doesn't grasp it.

4/26/2016 10:42:09 PM Muslims in America  

stregaleonora
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,585)
Atlanta, GA
40, joined Jun. 2014


Quote from asanb:
I completely understood your original post. It is a testament to Bigotry and intolerance.
Now a personal attack? How small.


You are not only an idiot you are also dishonest in your positions:
Ignoring the points which are not in your favor, twisting the matter over and over because you are wrong, and to keep covering up a violent religion.

An idiot and a dishonest person. That what you are asanb. Nothing personal just the truth.

4/26/2016 10:44:26 PM Muslims in America  

stregaleonora
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,585)
Atlanta, GA
40, joined Jun. 2014


Quote from Yasureoktoo:
And proven whenever necessary, but he still doesn't grasp it.


...wathever logic argument you put on the table, he ignores it or twist it around.

4/26/2016 10:49:39 PM Muslims in America  
Yasureoktoo
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,468)
Seattle, WA
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And he will just repeat the same thing over a few days later.

He is using philosophers, pretending they represent a religion.

He uses,, Not altered text so much, as made up text, that alters a person.

4/26/2016 11:08:24 PM Muslims in America  

jester0011
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Lake Waccamaw, NC
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get rid of them

4/27/2016 6:44:35 AM Muslims in America  

asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,589)
Sanbornton, NH
60, joined Jul. 2012


No. That is absolutely incorrect. In fact look at the dates of the people you mentioned.

You are speaking of an offshoot of Islam, that is mostly Zoastranism anyways.

There are lots of offshoots of Islam, most of which have already been killed off.

You are speaking of an offshoot, that you are claiming represents Islam, which it does not.

You are speaking of an offshoot, that is probably pretty good, compared to Islam.

You are speaking of an offshoot, that has removed the main person, and replaced it with another, straight out of the imagination, with nothing to verify it, and all to deny it.


The facts don't agree:
"Sufism
Sufi Muslims on a coach Muslims travelling to a Sufi gathering

Sufism, or Tasawwuf as it is known in the Muslim world, is Islamic mysticism (Lings, Martin, What is Sufism?, The Islamic Texts Society, 1999, pg 15).

Non-Muslims often mistake Sufism as a sect of Islam. Sufism is more accurately described as an aspect or dimension of Islam.;/b] Sufi orders (Tariqas) can be found in Sunni, Shia and other Islamic groups. Ibn Khaldun, the 14th century Arab historian, described Sufism as:

... dedication to worship, total dedication to Allah most High, disregard for the finery and ornament of the world, abstinence from the pleasure, wealth, and prestige sought by most men, and retiring from others to worship alone.

Ibn Khaldun, quoted in Keller, Nuh Ha Mim, The Place of Tasawwuf in Traditional Islam, www.masud.co.uk, 1995

Ibn Khaldun's words are an accurate description of Sufis today.

Sufis are emphatic that Islamic knowledge should be learned from teachers and not exclusively from books. Tariqas can trace their teachers back through the generations to the Prophet himself. Modelling themselves on their teachers, students hope that they too will glean something of the Prophetic character.

Although Sufis are relatively few in number they have shaped Islamic thought and history. Through the centuries Sufis contributed hugely to Islamic literature for example Rumi, Omar Khayyám and Al-Ghazali's influence extended beyond Muslim lands to be quoted by Western philosophers, writers and theologians. Sufis were influential in spreading Islam particularly to the furthest outposts of the Muslim world in Africa, India and the Far East.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/subdivisions/sufism_1.shtml



[Edited 4/27/2016 6:46:30 AM ]

4/27/2016 8:03:54 AM Muslims in America  
Yasureoktoo
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Quote from asanb:
. Tariqas can trace their teachers back through the generations to the Prophet himself.



LOLOL

You kind of blew it right there.

They can also trace muhammed back to Ishmael.

4/27/2016 8:41:22 AM Muslims in America  
Yasureoktoo
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Seattle, WA
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Here is Al-Ghazali, evidently with no intention of departing either from Sufism or Muslim orthodoxy, writing about jihad war and the treatment of the vanquished non-Muslim dhimmi peoples:


[O]ne must go on jihad (i.e., warlike razzias or raids) at least once a year…one may use a catapult against them [non-Muslims] when they are in a fortress, even if among them are women and children. One may set fire to them and/or drown them…If a person of the Ahl al-Kitab [People of The Book – primarily Jews and Christians] is enslaved, his marriage is [automatically] revoked…One may cut down their trees…One must destroy their useless books. Jihadists may take as booty whatever they decide…they may steal as much food as they need…

[T]he dhimmi is obliged not to mention Allah or His Apostle…Jews, Christians, and Majians must pay the jizya [poll tax on non-Muslims]…on offering up the jizya, the dhimmi must hang his head while the official takes hold of his beard and hits [the dhimmi] on the protruberant bone beneath his ear [i.e., the mandible]… They are not permitted to ostentatiously display their wine or church bells…their houses may not be higher than the Muslim’s, no matter how low that is. The dhimmi may not ride an elegant horse or mule; he may ride a donkey only if the saddle[-work] is of wood. He may not walk on the good part of the road. They [the dhimmis] have to wear [an identifying] patch [on their clothing], even women, and even in the [public] baths…[dhimmis] must hold their tongue…. [2] (From the Wagjiz, written in 1101 A.D. Emphasis added.)

4/27/2016 10:52:42 AM Muslims in America  

ludlowlowell
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Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


Remind me not to go to any public baths with any Muslims.

4/27/2016 7:19:54 PM Muslims in America  

asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,589)
Sanbornton, NH
60, joined Jul. 2012


Ok so the gist of your message is that Islam is what the books say.

So explain southern baptists using just the bible.

Explain Christian fundamentalism by quoting the new testament.

Every social trend and movement is based on political, cultural,and societal factors way beyond " the book".

Your case is moot.

4/27/2016 7:55:55 PM Muslims in America  
Yasureoktoo
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,468)
Seattle, WA
61, joined Dec. 2014


Unfortunately, because the religion cannot be changed, under penalty of death, it will always remain what the books say.

There are many variations, especially here in the west, that hide the books from the people and bring them into their version.

Another unfortunately, is that when these different versions collide, they kill each other.

4/27/2016 9:47:48 PM Muslims in America  

asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,589)
Sanbornton, NH
60, joined Jul. 2012


Quote from Yasureoktoo:
Unfortunately, because the religion cannot be changed, under penalty of death, it will always remain what the books say.

There are many variations, especially here in the west, that hide the books from the people and bring them into their version.

Another unfortunately, is that when these different versions collide, they kill each other.

Do the books include the Sunni / Shiite split? Oil money? Capitalist dictatorships? The establishment of of the House of Saud? The rape of Kuwait? Syrian uprising?

Books always require interpretation by the cleric, and clerics are always subject to the politics of the day. Get real.

4/27/2016 9:54:59 PM Muslims in America  

asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,589)
Sanbornton, NH
60, joined Jul. 2012


Quote from Yasureoktoo:
Here is Al-Ghazali, evidently with no intention of departing either from Sufism or Muslim orthodoxy, writing about jihad war and the treatment of the vanquished non-Muslim dhimmi peoples:


[O]ne must go on jihad (i.e., warlike razzias or raids) at least once a year…one may use a catapult against them [non-Muslims] when they are in a fortress, even if among them are women and children. One may set fire to them and/or drown them…If a person of the Ahl al-Kitab [People of The Book – primarily Jews and Christians] is enslaved, his marriage is [automatically] revoked…One may cut down their trees…One must destroy their useless books. Jihadists may take as booty whatever they decide…they may steal as much food as they need…

[T]he dhimmi is obliged not to mention Allah or His Apostle…Jews, Christians, and Majians must pay the jizya [poll tax on non-Muslims]…on offering up the jizya, the dhimmi must hang his head while the official takes hold of his beard and hits [the dhimmi] on the protruberant bone beneath his ear [i.e., the mandible]… They are not permitted to ostentatiously display their wine or church bells…their houses may not be higher than the Muslim’s, no matter how low that is. The dhimmi may not ride an elegant horse or mule; he may ride a donkey only if the saddle[-work] is of wood. He may not walk on the good part of the road. They [the dhimmis] have to wear [an identifying] patch [on their clothing], even women, and even in the [public] baths…[dhimmis] must hold their tongue…. [2] (From the Wagjiz, written in 1101 A.D. Emphasis added.)



Anynone notice something curious?? The first source isn't alGhazali. The second source shows several pages were used, yet we only get the second paragrpah after being cut and pasted with entire exerpts taken out, with no context, and with no trace to the original.

I only found it from sources traced back to Robert Spencer and people like him, who you may well know, make a living on their passion for muslims(/s).

If you've read any of alGhazali's works, you'd notice right away this doesn't read like him at all. He is universally recognized as one of the deepest scholars in history, and you fall for guys who deceive you by fabricating him into some thug who belittled dhimmis.

I feel bad for you that you don't know better, and that people are taking advantage of your lack of knowledge.

http://forum.whyislam.org/forum_posts.asp?TID=25304&PN=4