Muslims in America

4/12/2016 8:42:41 PM	Muslims in America
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 73, joined May. 2012	Quote from ludlowlowell: Luke 19:27 refers to what will happen on Judgment Day. It does not. Good grief. Jesus was just telling an old story. See Luke 19:11 Why do you make up all that stuff? Is it just free association with you? Matthew 10:34 refers to the violence that will be done against Christ's followers. It does not. Neither instructs the Christian faithful to kill non-Christians---Christianity is all about love and forgiveness. All those Old Testament passages were abrogated when Jesus came. What about EX 25:18-20, the verses that you say give the Catholic church the right to make idols and worship them? Wasn't that abrogated when Jesus came too? Pick one side or the other in these issues. Muslims want to convert by sword and bomb. Christians want to convert by love, persuasion, and missionaries. Tell that to the 2 million Vietnamese our Christian nation killed. Meet singles at DateHookup.dating, we're 100% free! Join now!
4/12/2016 8:45:22 PM	Muslims in America
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	Why would you tell anything to dead people. Is that some urantia trick.
4/12/2016 8:47:11 PM	Muslims in America
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 73, joined May. 2012	Quote from ludlowlowell: "Love thy neighbor. Do good to those who persecute you." --Jesus "Smite the non-believer wherever he is to be found." --Mohammed "Check the context. Always check the context." -Ludlow The context of "Smite...etc." is the war Mohammed was in with other Arabs 1300 years ago.
4/12/2016 8:49:40 PM	Muslims in America
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 73, joined May. 2012	Quote from Yasureoktoo: Why would you tell anything to dead people. Is that some urantia trick. Ludlow talks to dead people all the time, Mary and the so-called saints. He worships them and prays to them and bows down before statues of them. He'll know how to to it. It's a Catholic trick.
4/12/2016 9:02:19 PM	Muslims in America
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	...um, the Commies started the Vietnam War. Did you know that Vietnamese Communists would stick chopsticks in the ears of children if they listened to the Lord's Prayer? Read "Deliver Us from Evil" by Thomas Dooley.
4/12/2016 9:08:29 PM	Muslims in America
iyamwutiyam Middelfart Denmark 47, joined Dec. 2011	Quote from ludlowlowell: ...um, the Commies started the Vietnam War. Did you know that Vietnamese Communists would stick chopsticks in the ears of children if they listened to the Lord's Prayer? Read "Deliver Us from Evil" by Thomas Dooley. So what? Nazi Christians murdered over 6,000,000 Jews and 20,000,000 native americans for no reason. KKK Christians murdered 1000s of blacks for no reason. And Christian clergy raped 1000's of children to have fun.
4/12/2016 9:11:12 PM	Muslims in America
iyamwutiyam Middelfart Denmark 47, joined Dec. 2011	Quote from rufftreasure: Rumor is, she is a he He/she might have a few problems going to the bathroom in Mississippi and north Carolina
4/12/2016 9:14:47 PM	Muslims in America
olderthandirt20 Waldron, AR 69, joined Jul. 2014	Quote from Yasureoktoo: Quote from olderthandirt20 Luke 19:27: But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. Deuteronomy 17: 2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant, 3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel: 5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die. Matthew 10:34: Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu Now I am no fan of Christianity, but I do the same with Islam, which I hate with a passion, Where I see people misquote verses all the time. A serious problem here, and it seems the same people repeat it all the time, is that, The first one you posted is a parable so what's your point? The second is Jewish, not Christian, 3000 years old, and not even the Jews follow much of the primitive text, they evolved, and modified the religion to the times. *Again it is in the christian* bible. The third has a lot of controversy as to it's real meaning. the whole bible is controversial One can look at the teachings of Jesus, and see the meaning people use here is completely out of character, from the person spoken of in the text, over and over. Tell that to the klansmen who live by it and the inquisition judges and the fundy republicans that hate gays because of the old testament just like ludlow does.** This is much different with Muhammed for example, where the entire text is of a murdering piece of pig shit. there is no question as to the meaning of the text. Even if we used the logic you are implying, where we have to throw out all 4 books of the teachings of Jesus, pretending that this one verse overrules everything else written, and they are all wrong. It would make much more sense to say this one verse is obviously a mistake, either in writing, in translation, in completion, or any of the many, many, possible explanations for it's existence. The point here is that we have a primitive people, thousands of years ago, writing in the ways of the times, which were much different than they are today. Again what's your point, do you want to agree with lud? The RCC is not and never has been a bloodthirsty greedy organization? It has never done harm towards any non believers? Okay your opinion and my opinion differ. Another point is that you really have to look very deep into the Christian religion to find evil, It is generally a pretty good religion for people dependent on "sky daddy's".
4/12/2016 9:37:56 PM	Muslims in America
olderthandirt20 Waldron, AR 69, joined Jul. 2014	Quote from ludlowlowell: ...um, the Commies started the Vietnam War. Did you know that Vietnamese Communists would stick chopsticks in the ears of children if they listened to the Lord's Prayer? Read "Deliver Us from Evil" by Thomas Dooley. Dumbest thing you have ever said lud. Dooley died in 1961, Deliver us from evil was published in 1956 and he was linked to the CIA In 1956, Dooley's book Deliver Us from Evil was released and became a best-seller, establishing him as an icon of American humanitarian and anti-communist activities abroad. Dooley's vivid accounts of communist atrocities committed on the refugees are not fully substantiated by other sources. According to journalist Randy Shilts, Dooley was on a promotional tour for this book when he was investigated for participating in homosexual activities.[7] It seems that what the Navy discovered about Dooley's private life resulted in a negotiated agreement that he would announce he was leaving the Navy in order to serve the people of Vietnam.While Dooley was working in refugee camps in Haiphong in 1954 and 1955, some have alleged that he came to the attention of Lieutenant Colonel Edward G. Lansdale, head of a CIA office in Saigon. According to these allegations, Dooley was chosen as a symbol of Vietnamese-American cooperation, and was encouraged to write about his experiences in the refugee camps. Father Maynard Kegler on researching Dooley's life for possible canonization received almost 500 CIA files through the Freedom of Information Act that showed Dooley had provided the CIA with information about the sentiments of villagers and movements of troops around his hospitals in Laos in the late 1950s.[4] Kegler concluded that although Dooley did provide the CIA with some information, he never initiated contact with them, he took no money, his motivation was patriotism, and he hoped this would afford him "more freedom to do his work and a little less harassment." [5] William Lederer, author of The Ugly American, helped initiate this phase of Dooley's career. Lederer, who was at the time serving as a press officer, attached to the admiralty, appreciated the eloquence of Dooley's situation reports, and suggested that he write a book.[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Anthony_Dooley_III
4/12/2016 9:57:15 PM	Muslims in America
iyamwutiyam Middelfart Denmark 47, joined Dec. 2011	Quote from olderthandirt20: Dumbest thing you have ever said lud. You sure about that?
4/12/2016 10:36:51 PM	Muslims in America
olderthandirt20 Waldron, AR 69, joined Jul. 2014	Quote from iyamwutiyam: You sure about that? Well it's in the top 10 list
4/12/2016 11:16:36 PM	Muslims in America
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	With Lud, I really don't think a person could even calculate the top ten. real tough, considering you would have to evaluate thousands of pretty close contenders.
4/12/2016 11:58:35 PM	Muslims in America
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	If you guys will read "Deliver Us from Evil" you will see Communism, Catholicism, and the cold war in different lights.
4/13/2016 1:12:58 AM	Muslims in America
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 73, joined May. 2012	[]Quote from ludlowlowell:[/][]...um, the Commies started the Vietnam War.[/] ============================================================== If that's true, they finished it too and threw us out of their country.
4/13/2016 2:21:08 AM	Muslims in America
olderthandirt20 Waldron, AR 69, joined Jul. 2014	Quote from ludlowlowell: If you guys will read "Deliver Us from Evil" you will see Communism, Catholicism, and the cold war in different lights. Lud I don't need to read that book, I lived it the cold war and vietnam.
4/13/2016 2:24:58 AM	Muslims in America
stregaleonora Atlanta, GA 40, joined Jun. 2014	Quote from followjesusonly: "Check the context. Always check the context." -Ludlow The context of "Smite...etc." is the war Mohammed was in with other Arabs 1300 years ago. According to the Koran Mohammed has to be taken as a role model. Is the prophet or not? And Mohammed during his lifetime committed any possible vicious crime. Also the Koran is plenty of direct commands saying: "cut the heads of the infidels". It is a direct command. Period. There your contests.
4/13/2016 11:51:07 AM	Muslims in America
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	The real problem is that modern Muslims still take this kind of talk seriously, even so-called moderate Muslims.
4/13/2016 3:15:02 PM	Muslims in America
stregaleonora Atlanta, GA 40, joined Jun. 2014	They cannot take Mohammed as their role model.... ...Mohammed was a criminal... ...it's like to take as a role model Adolf Hitler...or Jack the Ripper... ....
4/13/2016 7:36:32 PM	Muslims in America
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	Very true. Very good analogy.
4/14/2016 7:25:48 AM	Muslims in America
nonstandard York, PA 53, joined Jun. 2009	Mohammed was a warlord , he conquered territories , and enslaved , whoever he didn't kill . It should be a crime , but If you have enough followers , and a god that has your back , you can get away with anything .
4/14/2016 8:01:59 AM	Muslims in America
nonstandard York, PA 53, joined Jun. 2009	Every living thing is born a leader , the leader of a form , that they alone possess . Anything that takes it away , is not a leader . Its a predator . [Edited 4/14/2016 8:04:32 AM ]
4/14/2016 8:18:55 AM	Muslims in America
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	From Shams of Tabris, a Muslim saint and teacher: "Rule 13 Try not to resist the changes, which come your way. Instead let life live through you. And do not worry that your life is turning upside down. How do you know that the side you are used to is better than the one to come? Rule 14 God is busy with the completion of your work, both outwardly and inwardly. He is fully occupied with you. Every human being is a work in progress that is slowly but inexorably moving toward perfection. We are each an unfinished work of art both waiting and striving to be completed. God deals with each of us separately because humanity is fine art of skilled penmanship where every single dot is equally important for the entire picture. Rule 15 It’s easy to love a perfect God, unblemished and infallible that He is. What is far more difficult is to love fellow human being with all their imperfections and defects. Remember, one can only know what one is capable of loving. There is no wisdom without love. Unless we learn to love God’s creation, we can neither truly love nor truly know God." From the forty rules of Love https://thevisionweekly.wordpress.com/2011/11/04/shams-of-tabrizs-40-rules-of-love/
4/14/2016 8:21:07 AM	Muslims in America
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	More, from a man who revered the Quran: "Rule 16 Real faith is the one inside. The rest simply washes off. There is only one type of dirt that cannot be cleansed with pure water, and that is the stain of hatred and bigotry contaminating the soul. You can purify your body through abstinence and fasting, but only love will purify your heart. Rule 17 The whole universe is contained within a single human being-you. Everything that you see around, including the things that you might not be fond of and even the people you despise or abhor, is present within you in varying degrees. Therefore, do not look for Sheitan outside yourself either. The devil is not an extraordinary force that attacks from without. It is an ordinary voice within. If you set to know yourself fully, facing with honesty and hardness. Rule 18 If you want to change the ways others treat you, you should first change the way you treat yourself, fully and sincerely, there is no way you can be loved. Once you achieve that stage, however, be thankful for every thorn that others might throw at you. It is a sign that you will soon be showered in roses.
4/14/2016 8:27:23 AM	Muslims in America
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	Most have no idea who Mohamed was or what he taught. We react to modern corruptions of Islam and the stories we read of misguided followers, and the publications of reactionary parties who would manipulate us into endless war. Mohamed taught his followers the same inner path that Jesus and Nanaak and the modern saints also taught. What religion and politics have done to their teachings are a degradation on all fronts.
4/14/2016 8:36:38 AM	Muslims in America
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	By this parallel study of the scriptures I could see that man's form is the highest. The Persian poet Iqbal says, Moses went to Mount Sinai to meet God; Did he not know that God Himself was in search of man? Man's status is next to God. All Masters who came said, "O man, become a man." Man represents God on this earth. And what is he? He has a body, he has intellect, but he is consciousness--the soul which is of the same essence as that of God. We have made great progress physically and intellectually, as we can see: man has reached the moon and is now thinking of reaching out to other planets. We can now travel around the globe in a matter of hours; we can hear and see from thousands of miles, through radio and television. With all this progress, we are still not happy. The reason is that we have ignored man's third aspect. One Sufi Saint says, O man, you have known so much about everything, but if you have not known your own self, you are a fool. So man's most important aim is that he should become a man. Prophet Mohammed said, I am His messenger -- His son. Other Masters said similar things. Kabir Sahib said, O Kabir, we are the knower of that far away place, and we bring orders from the Most High. They always say, "We are His children." What is their work? They say that the people have forgotten God, and we have come to bring remembrance. So these Masters come again and again to the world that is, when they are needed. In the time of Kabir Sahib, there was a clash between Hindus and Muslims. Guru Nanak was his contemporary, and both raised the same cry. Kabir said, I am neither Hindu nor Muslim; consider us both as one. Guru Nanak said similarly, Neither are we Hindu nor Muslim; Allah and Ram is the breath of the body. Guru Nanak was told that he wore the label of a Hindu, so how could he say he was not a Hindu? He told them that he was a puppet made of five elements, in which the invisible was playing -- and that was he. This is the quality of man. All men are born in the same way. They have the same outer and inner construction. The municipality of the body cleans it every day by throwing out the waste matter. But we are the indweller, and not the body. The soul is the indweller, and is the entity of the Lord. So man has first to know himself ---only then can he know God. Kirpal Singh- The Highest Ideal
4/14/2016 6:35:59 PM	Muslims in America
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	Quote from asanb: Most have no idea who Mohamed was or what he taught. We react to modern corruptions of Islam and the stories we read of misguided followers, and the publications of reactionary parties who would manipulate us into endless war. Mohamed taught his followers the same inner path that Jesus and Nanaak and the modern saints also taught. What religion and politics have done to their teachings are a degradation on all fronts. And just where did you get that information. There are only 2 sources for muhammeds teachings. I have read them both, and don't recall any of which you speak.
4/14/2016 7:00:25 PM	Muslims in America
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	I am curious what source you are using, my guess is it is something printed a thousand years later.
4/14/2016 8:21:56 PM	Muslims in America
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	When those who lust over power and influence translate the Quran, it becomes a book about war and influence and dogmatic crystallized laws. When a seeker after truth reads it, it unfolds hidden truths about how to become a man and a spiritual inspiration. The Bible also, but not as much because so much of it has been corrupted by the church. The eye of the beholder......
4/14/2016 8:50:33 PM	Muslims in America
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	My brothers, we must consider how the Qur'an came from Allah, and we must delve deep within it. In order to understand its true meaning, we must be in the same state as that original Qur'an was when it emerged from Allah. It came as a resplendence, a radiance, a resonance, and a grace. Then it came as a light to Gabriel. And when it came to Muhammad, the Messenger, it came as the grace and attributes of Allah. Next Muhammad brought it to us as a revelation. Then the sound of these revelations was transformed into letters and formed into words. What was revealed in those words ultimately became public knowledge and part of history. The interpretations of this knowledge later gave rise to religious differences, divisions, and bigotry, which in turn gave rise to prejudice, fighting, and wars. This is the state the world has come to. We, however, must delve into the depths of the Qur' an; we must experience each step of the way as it originally came from Allah. As we look deeper and deeper, we will see the Messenger of God, and once we see him, we will know how Gabriel came to him and how he received that grace. We will see the light, and if we look through that light we will experience the resonance of Allah within the Qur'an. As we understand that resonance, we will understand our life and our death; we will understand the Day of Judgment, the Day of Questioning, and the ninety-nine attributes22 of Allah. Once we have this understanding, we will see that all men are our brothers, just as the Qur'an teaches us. To truly see all people as our brothers is Islam. If we see anyone who is in need, we must offer him the water of the mercy of all the universes, the water of absolute faith, and the affirmation of that faith, the kalimah. That water must be given to everyone who is hungry or thirsty. We must embrace them lovingly, quench their thirst, and wash away their dirt. We must offer them love, compassion, patience, and tolerance, just as the Prophet did. This is what will satisfy their needs and dispel the darkness in their hearts. My brothers and sisters in Islam, if we offer peace, then justice will flourish. Love will cut away all enmity. Compassion will cause God's grace to grow in this world, and then the food of faith and the mercy of all the universes can be offered. When that food is given, hunger, disease, old age, and death will be eliminated, and everyone will have peace. http://www.bmf.org/iswp/inner-quran.html
4/14/2016 9:50:57 PM	Muslims in America
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	So you have nothing. You are speaking of something some cleric, or Iman said, that probably applies to the group he is trying to develop, but has nothing to do with Islam.
4/14/2016 11:47:11 PM	Muslims in America
stregaleonora Atlanta, GA 40, joined Jun. 2014	Quote from nonstandard: Mohammed was a warlord , he conquered territories , and enslaved , whoever he didn't kill . It should be a crime , but If you have enough followers , and a god that has your back , you can get away with anything . A warlord ( your words...) cannot be a prophet of a so called "religion of peace"..... ...it just seems quite ridiculous don't you agree??
4/14/2016 11:49:58 PM	Muslims in America
stregaleonora Atlanta, GA 40, joined Jun. 2014	Quote from nonstandard: Every living thing is born a leader , the leader of a form , that they alone possess . Anything that takes it away , is not a leader . Its a predator . Wathever... Anyonee who takes a 6 years old girl as a wife is just a pedophile son of a b*tch. Simple. ...a prophet?? Please.
4/14/2016 11:55:03 PM	Muslims in America
stregaleonora Atlanta, GA 40, joined Jun. 2014	Quote from asanb: My brothers, we must consider how the Qur'an came from Allah, and we must delve deep within it. In order to understand its true meaning, we must be in the same state as that original Qur'an was when it emerged from Allah. It came as a resplendence, a radiance, a resonance, and a grace. Then it came as a light to Gabriel. And when it came to Muhammad, the Messenger, it came as the grace and attributes of Allah. Next Muhammad brought it to us as a revelation. Then the sound of these revelations was transformed into letters and formed into words. What was revealed in those words ultimately became public knowledge and part of history. The interpretations of this knowledge later gave rise to religious differences, divisions, and bigotry, which in turn gave rise to prejudice, fighting, and wars. This is the state the world has come to. We, however, must delve into the depths of the Qur' an; we must experience each step of the way as it originally came from Allah. As we look deeper and deeper, we will see the Messenger of God, and once we see him, we will know how Gabriel came to him and how he received that grace. We will see the light, and if we look through that light we will experience the resonance of Allah within the Qur'an. As we understand that resonance, we will understand our life and our death; we will understand the Day of Judgment, the Day of Questioning, and the ninety-nine attributes22 of Allah. Once we have this understanding, we will see that all men are our brothers, just as the Qur'an teaches us. To truly see all people as our brothers is Islam. If we see anyone who is in need, we must offer him the water of the mercy of all the universes, the water of absolute faith, and the affirmation of that faith, the kalimah. That water must be given to everyone who is hungry or thirsty. We must embrace them lovingly, quench their thirst, and wash away their dirt. We must offer them love, compassion, patience, and tolerance, just as the Prophet did. This is what will satisfy their needs and dispel the darkness in their hearts. My brothers and sisters in Islam, if we offer peace, then justice will flourish. Love will cut away all enmity. Compassion will cause God's grace to grow in this world, and then the food of faith and the mercy of all the universes can be offered. When that food is given, hunger, disease, old age, and death will be eliminated, and everyone will have peace. http://www.bmf.org/iswp/inner-quran.html I assure you that the Archangel Gabriel would have nothing to do with a book from hell teaching of raping little girls, stoning women and cut off the heads of the non believers... That's was probably Lucifer no Gabriel...
4/15/2016 7:28:09 AM	Muslims in America
duchessa Yonkers, NY 63, joined Aug. 2008	Quote from fitbarbie: As a Christian nation when are we going to stand up and say these a**holes aren't allowed here? They come here to kill us and Obama is wanting to let them come in disguised as refugees. Hell no. A Muslim better not come close to me and my family. Huevón....we are not a Christian nation.
4/15/2016 7:37:45 AM	Muslims in America
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	Oie Vei.
4/15/2016 4:44:38 PM	Muslims in America
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	Quote from stregaleonora: A warlord ( your words...) cannot be a prophet of a so called "religion of peace"..... ...it just seems quite ridiculous don't you agree?? So please explain the Sufi, who are Muslim and use the Quran, yet they among the most spiritually advanced and peaceful of all modern religious sects. The proof is in the pudding.
4/15/2016 4:46:47 PM	Muslims in America
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	Quote from Yasureoktoo: So you have nothing. You are speaking of something some cleric, or Iman said, that probably applies to the group he is trying to develop, but has nothing to do with Islam. ??? he is speaking of the Quran. It has everything to do with Islam.
4/15/2016 4:48:23 PM	Muslims in America
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	Quote from ludlowlowell: Very true. Very good analogy. based upon vaporous Islamophobia, not fact.
4/15/2016 5:06:12 PM	Muslims in America
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	Quote from Yasureoktoo: So you have nothing. You are speaking of something some cleric, or Iman said, that probably applies to the group he is trying to develop, but has nothing to do with Islam. I have the profound and thorough analysis of a modern Saint and spiritual leader of stature who knows and teaches the inner path that Mohamed experienced and gave to his disciples. In the time I have spent on this site I have quoted various sources from Sant Mat, or their modern teachers, Kirpal Singh ( a towering intellect and author of dozens of books on spirituality and comparative religion ), Julian Johnson, an erudite author of an in depth analysis of religion, and Sawan Singh, another spiritual giant. These are people who speak of Mohamed from a higher perspective. One that has little to do with politics and power mongering. One that is little understood by those who live to incite violence rather than the truth seekers who have higher purpose. Twisting the truth on one hand and living the truth on the other. Worldly people do not understand spiritual principle, it's like a foreign language. A thief sleeps in fear of loosing his purse. An honest man sleeps soundly. it's a matter of perspective. I have no sympathy for anyone who waves a religious flag and points to another sect or nationality in disdain. Most like that haven't a clue of the fundamentals of their own religion, and do little else but discredit the savior they proclaim.
4/15/2016 5:12:35 PM	Muslims in America
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	That is close to the biggest croc-o-bullshit you have uttered. You are babbeling about Sufi Islam, a new branch, of Islam, a tiny percentage, that all the other muslims want to kill because they are not Islam. You are using teachings of charlaton hundreds, even a thousand years later. There is nothing that can be traced to muhammed, nothing, nada, zip, zilch, nothing. Hell, they cannot even prove such a person even existed at all. The religion is a creation, a 300 year evolution to get to where it is now. Your version is a bastard child, with absolutely nothing to validate it.
4/16/2016 2:05:31 PM	Muslims in America
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	Quote from Yasureoktoo: That is close to the biggest croc-o-bullshit you have uttered. You are babbeling about Sufi Islam, a new branch, of Islam, a tiny percentage, that all the other muslims want to kill because they are not Islam. You are using teachings of charlaton hundreds, even a thousand years later. There is nothing that can be traced to muhammed, nothing, nada, zip, zilch, nothing. Hell, they cannot even prove such a person even existed at all. The religion is a creation, a 300 year evolution to get to where it is now. Your version is a bastard child, with absolutely nothing to validate it. Sufism is at least fifteen hundred years old. Early biographies begin with Al-Hasan ibn Abi '1 Hasan al-Basri, born at Medina in 21 (642) https://archive.org/stream/MuslimSaintsAndMysticsTazkiraTulAwliyaFariduddinAttar/Muslim%20Saints%20and%20Mystics%20Tazkira%20tul%20Awliya%20Fariduddin%20Attar_djvu.txt With all of your ranting about the evil personage of Mohamed, you now say that he didn't exist. You can't have it both ways, logically. And your "facts" are as always, tainted by your opinion. "The Origin of Sufism - Sufi Inayat Khan The germ of Sufism is said to have existed from the beginning of the human creation, for wisdom is the heritage of all; therefore no one person can be said to be its propounder. It has been revealed more clearly and spread more widely from time to time as the world has evolved. Sufism as a brother/sisterhood may be traced back as far as the period of Daniel. We find among the Zoroastrians, Hatim, the best known Sufi of his time. The chosen ones of God, the salt of the earth, who responded without hesitation to the call of Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Mohammed, were Sufis, and were not only simple followers of a religion but had insight into divine knowledge. They recognized God's every messenger and united with them all. Before the time of Mohammed they were called Ekuanul Safa, Brothers of Purity, but after his coming they were named by him Sahabi Safa, Knights of Purity. The world has called them Zoroastrian, Christian, Jewish, or Islamic mystics, and the followers of each religion have claimed them as their own. For instance, a Christian would claim that Saint Paul was a Christian and a Muslim that Shams Tabriz was a Muslim. In reality Christ was not a Christian nor was Mohammed a Muslim, they were Sufis." http://sufiway.org/about-us/the-origins-of-sufism "In pursuit of this goal of worshipping Allah, Sufis belong to Tariqas, or orders, established in the first few centuries after the Prophet's death. These orders have a master who will teach sacred knowledge to others in the group. Although Tariqas have a long history, in recent times some Muslims have questioned the necessity of Tariqas arguing that they were alien to the Prophet himself. Sufis make a convincing defence from the Qur'an and Sunna (what the Prophet said, did, agreed to or condemned). Sufis acknowledge that Tariqas were not established at the time of the Prophet. They consider that the Prophet his companions and their immediate successors, the first three generations, embodied Islamic mysticism but the phenomenon was too general to have a specific name. Later generations of Muslims became distracted by worldliness and so those, now in the minority, that were dedicated to worshipping Allah were given the name Sufi. " http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/subdivisions/sufism_1.shtml Sufi is the true Islam, all others are just religious sects
4/16/2016 2:25:25 PM	Muslims in America
stregaleonora Atlanta, GA 40, joined Jun. 2014	Quote from asanb: So please explain the Sufi, who are Muslim and use the Quran, yet they among the most spiritually advanced and peaceful of all modern religious sects. The proof is in the pudding. I guess they cannot read or understand what is written in the Koran, in the Sirah and the Sunnah. How ridiculous are people who claim to be pacific and follow violent holy scriptures, and have a prophet who was a warlord (rapist, pedophile etc.)..... I don't know...I guess they are probably the biggest bullshitters on earth??
4/16/2016 2:33:10 PM	Muslims in America
stregaleonora Atlanta, GA 40, joined Jun. 2014	Quote from asanb: based upon vaporous Islamophobia, not fact. Here what Islamophobia is: 1) Rapist-phobia 2) Pedophile-phobia 3) Chauvinist-phobia 4) Women abuse phobia 5) Sexual abuse phobia 6) Terrorism Phobia 7) Bullshit phobia - the last one refers to you - Those people have a holy book which seems the manual of the modern serial killer.
4/16/2016 2:41:07 PM	Muslims in America
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	Asanb That's bullshit and you know it. Islam is famous for inventing insnads, phony family trees, hell, they have one that goes from Muhammed to Ishmael. Please present your first written record of this person, not what they say it is, but what it really is, and who wrote it. You will find it is long after the fact. And cut the shit about muhammed, and what I claim. I have stated many times, what I write about muhammed, is what is already written about him. No, there is nothing to prove he existed at all, Not one thing, from anyone, anywhere. In fact the first mention in recorded history is 60 years late, and it is by Christian sources. And he is referred to as "The Mahood" a title and not a proper name, a title shared by Mary, Josheph, Jesus, and the 5th calief Malick. And the Arabs are reffered to as "The godless pagans, no mention of muhammed, the Qur'an, Islam, muslims After that our first mention is Ishaq, then Taburi. Between 125 and 200 years after the fact. BTW, the Ishaq I mentioned is lost, and was re-written 60 years later by Ibn Hussin, so regardless the first documentation is 200 years too late, and yours is later than that. I can understand discussing religious theory, but don't lie about it.
4/16/2016 5:35:40 PM	Muslims in America
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	From Julian Johnson: Islam was born among a barbarous people in a barbarous age. The stern and relentless creed of Islam was more or less a by-product of the times. What else could be expected? If the need is urgent, the remedy must be heroic. It is well to remember also that the Supreme One is in charge of world affairs, and whatever he does we may accept as the best thing that could be done under the circumstances. Can you imagine the effect upon those wild desert Arabs if Mohammed had preached to them the sublime idealism of the Gita, or the Sermon on the Mount? They would not have had the least idea what was being said. Mohammed gave them about the only thing they could comprehend, and no one may doubt that it worked well. When the Moslem invasions had worn on to a close, when the Islamic organization itself had become enfeebled by too much success abroad and by strife at home, when unparalleled absorption of conquered wealth had given the conquerors moral and intellectual indigestion and auto-intoxication, then Islam began its own inevitable decline. For this is the history of all such movements from the beginning of time. The empire of the prophet now extended from the Indus on the east, Turkestan and the Caucasus on the north, over all northern Africa, and into Spain on the west. When, in 1422, Constantinople fell to the final rally of the armies of Islam, the old church of Santa Sophia was converted into a mosque, and the last Greek Christian wept bitter tears as he fled from the city of Constantine. Had it not been for the strong hand of Charles Martel, at the battle of Poitiers, the victorious hordes of the Prophet undoubtedly would have passed the Pyrenees and swept all Europe. In that case, who shall say, perhaps our fathers would have bowed to the dusky Arab, and today we ourselves might have been saying our five prayers daily with our faces turned towards Mecca. The camel driver of the desert, instead of the Syrian carpenter, might have been preaching in all the churches of Europe and America. After all, religion is not only a matter of inheritance and habit, but also of geography. And so, what is Islam? that virile religion which even today dominates the minds of twenty percent of the human race. Let us give it a little careful study. Its theology is not complicated. We know of no world religion so simple, direct and unequivocal. Its principles are few and clear cut: 1. First of all, a firm adherence to the belief in ONE God, the unity of the Supreme One. "There is but one God and his name is Allah." 2. Mohammed is his prophet. Other prophets had come and gone, but Mohammed was the last and the greatest of them all. It was, therefore, the duty of all the faithful, aye of the whole world, to give him their undivided allegiance, their utmost devotion and veneration. 3. The faithful are offered a double reward, riches and honors in this life, and a paradise of delights in the next. That had the approval of the All-merciful Allah. 4. The Koran, or Quran, is the holy book of Islam. It is made up of a collection of revelations, or messages received direct from Allah himself for the edification and control of the faithful. The Quran is written in beautiful Arabic language. It contains much that is wholesome, stimulating, inspiring, but with a distinctive appeal to the Arabian type. Its substance is a code of ethics and laws, mostly suitable to that and kindred peoples of the day. Like any wise physician, Mohammed gave them what was best suited to their present needs. Let us give to the Arabian Prophet all the credit due him for an honest effort to pull his people out of the mire of superstition. That he rendered them a very great service cannot be doubted by any unprejudiced student of history.
4/16/2016 5:50:12 PM	Muslims in America
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	So basically you still have nothing but apologist muslims, writing bullshit stories. They have these in every religion. Do you have anything real.
4/16/2016 5:54:02 PM	Muslims in America
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	More from Julian Johnson: ". The followers of Islam have had the same difficulty to contend with as the followers of the Bible. But their devotees do not realize that, and they would probably resent the suggestion. This has always been the case with formal religions, where it is laid down in a book just what one is to believe. No one can then go beyond the book. Thought becomes crystallized and progress ceases. How can it be otherwise? As soon as a man joins a formal religion, he ceases to look for anything new or better. He is bound. It has always been so since the earliest days of the Vedas. There has always been a tendency to crystallize religious thought and finally to write it down in a book as the very last word to be said. This means stagnation, ossification. This tendency has in it another deadly menace. .The next logical step is to try to compel all men to accept what is written. Then follow persecution and murder in the name of God. Can history show a more ghastly tragedy? Usually, when people accept a book as the authoritative word of God, then they assert that all revelation is closed. The last word has been said. Believe it now or be damned. This has been the supreme tragedy of history. The Vedas, the Shastras, the Puranas, and the Gita, the Mahabharata, and the Ramayana in India, the Zend Avesta in Persia, the Bible in Syria, the Quran in Arabia, and a little later the Granth Sahib of the Sikhs in India, all these are books to be worshipped and obeyed.They are declared, ex-cathedra, to be the inspired word of God. Ergo, it is the duty of all men to accept and believe them. And all of them are fetters to intelligence, no matter how good they may be in and of themselves. They become fetters because their followers insist that all revelation is closed. All spiritual instructions are finished. Instead of listening to a living Master in each age, their several books are considered the infallible word. Crystallization of thought always goes before moral stagnation. "Without a living Master spirituality wanes, as a lamp goes out when the oil is exhausted". As soon as a religion becomes fixed, static, crystallized, upon that foundation a corrupt priesthood is established, and at once the whole thing begins to decline into an inspired formalism. This is history. It is no theory. Only when the living Master comes with a vitalized and dynamic science, only then can he "speak as one having authority." After all, what is a holy book at best? It is a statement of the inner experiences of a living Master. Then why not listen to the living Master now? Why not see him and hear him yourself instead of reading about some Masters who lived centuries or thousands of years ago? " So the problem of spiritual and ethical stagnation isn't unique to Islam, It's a symptom of all religions.
4/16/2016 5:56:31 PM	Muslims in America
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	Quote from Yasureoktoo: So basically you still have nothing but apologist muslims, writing bullshit stories. They have these in every religion. Do you have anything real. Julian johnson is not a Muslim. What do you mean by "real".
4/16/2016 5:56:57 PM	Muslims in America
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	Except the followers of Islam did not have the same problems as those of other religions. Islam raided towns, ordered the conversion, or death of all.
4/16/2016 5:59:01 PM	Muslims in America
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	Quote from asanb: Julian johnson is not a Muslim. What do you mean by "real". Because you have been posting bullshit as though it is real. You are pushing sufi, and when asked for actual proof of what you post, you don't answer, just posting another story from someone else. There are endless stories, made up stories, of all religions.
4/16/2016 6:06:44 PM	Muslims in America
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	War and genocide have been waged by the purveyors of many religions. The further removed from the original founder, the worse the war. The Sikhs under the leadership of Guru Gobind Sing waged a defensive war against the Moghuls.
4/16/2016 6:08:12 PM	Muslims in America
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	Quote from Yasureoktoo: Because you have been posting bullshit as though it is real. You are pushing sufi, and when asked for actual proof of what you post, you don't answer, just posting another story from someone else. There are endless stories, made up stories, of all religions. OK, what have I posted that's a Lie? Be specific, please
4/16/2016 6:09:03 PM	Muslims in America
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	Wars and religion have been going on since the beginning of time, but name another religion that preaches war. It's main chatactor a warlord.
4/16/2016 6:10:02 PM	Muslims in America
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	Quote from Yasureoktoo: Because you have been posting bullshit as though it is real. You are pushing sufi, and when asked for actual proof of what you post, you don't answer, just posting another story from someone else. There are endless stories, made up stories, of all religions. If you start posting like KB "ANSWER MY QUESTION" this conversation will be over.
4/16/2016 6:10:31 PM	Muslims in America
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	gee, you make this too easy, here is one for a start. Quote from asanb: Most have no idea who Mohamed was or what he taught. We react to modern corruptions of Islam and the stories we read of misguided followers, and the publications of reactionary parties who would manipulate us into endless war. Mohamed taught his followers the same inner path that Jesus and Nanaak and the modern saints also taught. .
4/16/2016 6:12:54 PM	Muslims in America
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	I asked you repeatedly where you get your information about muhammed. You invent people hundreds of years later, with claims of what muhammed said, OK, not your invention, but you repeat it.
4/16/2016 6:21:42 PM	Muslims in America
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	Quote from Yasureoktoo: Wars and religion have been going on since the beginning of time, but name another religion that preaches war. It's main chatactor a warlord. Shinto Norse religion Aztek Judaism
4/16/2016 6:27:01 PM	Muslims in America
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	Quote from asanb: Shinto Norse religion Aztek Judaism Not sure how Judism preaches war, as opposed to defense, but the others I think do.
4/16/2016 6:27:25 PM	Muslims in America
asanb Sanbornton, NH 60, joined Jul. 2012	Quote from Yasureoktoo: gee, you make this too easy, here is one for a start. Quote from asanb: Most have no idea who Mohamed was or what he taught. We react to modern corruptions of Islam and the stories we read of misguided followers, and the publications of reactionary parties who would manipulate us into endless war. Mohamed taught his followers the same inner path that Jesus and Nanaak and the modern saints also taught. . I learned that from a modern day saint named Kirpal Singh, who I met in person. He was a towering intellect and an astute teacher of comparative religion. He knew that because he was of their stature, a teacher of the inner path. He wrote a lot of books. Most are available online for free as none were copywrited.
4/16/2016 6:29:37 PM	Muslims in America
Yasureoktoo Seattle, WA 61, joined Dec. 2014	But as you can see, the ones mentioned have long since cooled their jets, Islam has not.

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