Some thoughts concerning Hell

2/11/2016 4:57:56 AM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
rtay Port Saint Lucie, FL 65, joined Aug. 2010	Some thoughts concerning Hell. Doesn’t Matthew 25:46 say the wicked will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life?” Good question. For no good exegetical reason, some Annihilationists have understood the word “eternal” to refer, not to a duration of time, but to the quality of God’s judgment. It’s eternal in quality, even though it has an end. Other Annihilationists say “eternal” refers to the effect of divine judgment. That is to say, God’s judgment results in death—as in extinction, annihilation—which is a state of non-being that lasts eternally. If you’re having a hard time bending your mind around that, you’re not alone. It’s hard to conceive of a sinner experiencing an eternal quality of judgment without it lasting forever. Matthew 25:46 clearly teaches that the duration of punishment and life are alike, both eternal. John MacArthur has said, Punishment in hell is defined by the word aionios, which is the word eternal or everlasting. There are people who would like to redefine that word aionios and say, "Well, it doesn't really mean forever." But if you do that with hell, you've just done it with heaven, because the same word is used to describe both. If there is not an everlasting hell, then there is not an everlasting heaven. And I'll go one beyond that. The same word is used to describe God. And so if there is not an everlasting hell, then there is not an everlasting heaven, nor is there an everlasting God. It is clear that God is eternal; and, therefore, that heaven is eternal, and so is hell. (John MacArthur, “A Testimony of One Surprised to Be in Hell, Part 2”) Augustine put it simply more than 1,500 years ago: “To say that life eternal shall be endless, [but that] punishment eternal shall come to an end is the height of absurdity.” Apart from the metaphysical problem (How can something that no longer exists be said to last forever?), there’s a very serious problem with the “cessation of existence” view—it fails to account for a Lawgiver who is infinite and eternal by nature. The severity of an offense is measured, not merely by the nature of the act itself, but also in relation to the one offended. It’s like that with offenses committed against a holy God. Since an offense against a finite lawgiver is finite, the punishment to satisfy the offense is also finite. That’s the principle behind Exodus 21, an eye for an eye (Exodus 21:23-25). But an offense against an infinite, eternal Lawgiver is not finite; it’s infinite and eternal. It is up to the Judge to determine the severity of the infraction itself—i.e., telling a “white” lie versus committing homicide—but the nature of the infraction is measured against the nature of God who is holy and eternal. Likewise, God, who is perfect in righteousness, determines the justice an infraction demands. According to His Word, the punishment for an offense against a holy God is everlasting torment in hell. The biblical doctrine of an eternal hell gives us yet another reason to praise God for the gospel. It took an eternal person to satisfy an eternal penalty against sin, which disqualified the entire human race, except one Person—Jesus Christ. He is the Son of man and the eternal Son of God. When Jesus laid down His life, His sacrifice satisfied every requirement of divine justice. For those who trust in Jesus Christ as their Substitute, His death has satisfied the eternal wrath of an eternal, righteous God. He bore our punishment in His body, absorbing God’s eternal wrath. But for those who do not embrace Christ, they are left to themselves—they bear the guilt of their offenses against an eternal God, and they will suffer for it eternally, never able to satisfy His eternal wrath. Travis Allen Director of Internet Ministry rt Meet singles at DateHookup.dating, we're 100% free! Join now!
2/11/2016 5:11:43 AM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
rtay Port Saint Lucie, FL 65, joined Aug. 2010	I had this on file,and I will comment on the posts in my other Topics. I'm grateful for your comments,It keeps me in my studies,Hopefully I can bring more clarity instead of confusion concerning Revelations pertaining to prophetic774 and Equalizer21 post. God Bless
2/11/2016 6:13:13 AM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	Hell exists. Hell is forever, for those who go there. Jesus said so, many times, but most specifically in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man.
2/11/2016 6:44:50 AM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
rtay Port Saint Lucie, FL 65, joined Aug. 2010	Thanks for your post ludlowlowell, Hell is more described than defined.If you look at love in 1Corth. 13 you will find Love is more described than defined. 13:2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 4 Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant 5or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. 7Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. rt.
2/11/2016 7:43:27 AM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	Some people say that if God were truly a God of love He would never send anyone to Hell, that He would just annihilate unrepentant sinners' souls. The opposite is true---because He loves sinners, He will not annihilate them. Can you imagine loving parents ever anihilating their own children? God is a God of love and He even loves the souls in Hell! He really does! The fires they experience are merely the fires of His love, experienced as painful fire by those who refused to love Him back. They will be in Hell forever, true, and their punishments will increase after the General Resurrection, when both body and soul will be tormented, but God created tgem and continues to love them. It would break God's loving Heart to annihilate them so He continues to let them burn
2/11/2016 8:02:42 AM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
rtay Port Saint Lucie, FL 65, joined Aug. 2010	Lud, God's Love is not a pampering love,but a perfecting love.rt
2/11/2016 9:09:05 AM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	Exactly.
2/11/2016 9:15:35 AM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
Equalizer21 Seattle, WA 53, joined Oct. 2014	Leviticus 26:18 ‘And after all this, if you do not obey Me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins. Here above we see God punishing 7 times for sin. Then below, if they haven't repented and REFORMED, 7 MORE times punishment. This is likened to investing term, compounding interest. Only in the spiritual realm, it's compounding sin. I find it funny people teach, hell doesn't fit the crime. Yet, this is human wisdom trying to define God. Leviticus 26:21 ‘Then, if you walk contrary to Me, and are not willing to obey Me, I will bring on you seven times more plagues, according to your sins. Rtay, yes this helps keep me studying, so, no worries about replies, but at some point a reply on other topics would be nice. I value your insight.
2/11/2016 10:32:28 AM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
visitingfriends Evansville, WI 76, joined Jan. 2011	A poem I wrote some years ago. Why Jesus Wept Did you ever stop and wonder why On the night before He died The tears ran down our Savior’s Face As openly he cried. Every person who would ever live Passed before the Lord that night, He saw the ones that wouldn’t be saved It was a painful sight. He knew that He’d be lifted up. To draw all men to him. He saw how men would turn their backs And continued with their sins. He saw how for a little pleasure. Some men their souls would sell. And how that they rejected God And sent them selves to Hell. I’d like for everyone to stop and think Of all the things you do Could you stand before the throne of God Or was one tear for you. by Danny
2/11/2016 12:34:34 PM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 63, joined Oct. 2007	The fact is there is no "hell" in the Scriptures. That is a fact. Another fact is that "hell" is a Catholic invention, pick up by the Protestants, as they were all once Catholic. We call the KJV a "Protestant" Bible. But who can deny it's Catholic origins? And no amount of poetry is going to change these facts. The fact is that there is no Ancient term for "hell." Not in Ancient Hebrew and not in Ancient Koine Greek. Yet the Catholic explanation for this is so fantastic, so absurd, and so ridiculous that most Catholics dare not repeat it to the Protestant community. Hell started out as a very cold place. Demons and devils were painted blue to reflect the cold nature of their home ("hell") on early church windows. Here is a picture of blue devils on an early church window... Fire was added later with the addition of 'gehenna,' a fiery valley used as a garbage pit. Perhaps in a few more years "hell" will change color again and become purple. A 6th century mosaic of the last judgement in Ravenna, in the Basilica of Sant’Apollinare Nuovo, Italy, clearly shows Jesus flanked on the right by an angel of light, in red; and on the left by an angel of dark, in blue. This is the Devil, who was seen in early medieval times as little more than a low-ranking bureaucrat, who was working for God. It seems the doctrines of the Catholic church do change. Here is a great video of an interview by Bishop John Spong... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc Check out the video entitled The History of Satan the Devil at... http://dangerousminds.net/comments/a_history_of_the_devil This video shows how "hell" and the devil are taken from bits and pieces of pagan rituals and beliefs. The Greek term "hades" has a history with a pagan origin before Christians used it to describe 'sheol.' The fact is that there is no "hell" in the Scriptures. But you can believe whatever you wish. Santa Clause, The Easter Bunny, the Tooth fairy. I have been watching that new show called Lucifer. It is pretty funny. The Prince of Darkness as a detective.
2/11/2016 12:54:47 PM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
cupocheer Assumption, IL 67, joined May. 2010
2/11/2016 1:05:04 PM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 63, joined Oct. 2007	I have cited several reasons why I have observed that there is no 'hell' in the Scriptures. So far I have seen no evidence to the contrary of what I have already stated several times here. No one has been able to come forward and disprove these points. 1. There is no Ancient term for the word 'hell' as we use it. Sheol Hades Gehenna Tartarus Which one did you think was hell? 2. There is no record of a 'hell' ever being created... CLV Gn 1:1 IN A BEGINNING Created by the Elohim were the heavens and the earth. This tells me that heaven and earth were created. There is no such record for a 'hell.' 3. The church says that 'hell' is separation from God... AV Ps 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou [art] there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou [art there]. Evidently there is no separating from God. 4. The Jews have no hell. Jesus was a Jew. As a Jew He was not taught about a hell. There is no hell in the OT. Don't believe me? Ask a Jew. 5. The word 'hell' is absent from the Tanakh. The Tanakh is the Scriptures of the Jews. It is the same books that we have in our English versions of the OT, just in a different order. The Tanakh was here long before English was even a language. 6. Just before the 12th century there was no such word as 'hell.' So says Merriam - Webster. That is well over 1000 years after Jesus left. 7. Man's 'punishment' for his disobedience in Eden in Genesis 3:17 to... CLV Gn 3:19 In the sweat of your face shall you eat your bread, till your return to the ground, for from it are you taken, for soil you are, and to soil are you returning." If God punished man once, what is the point of punishing him again with a 'hell?' 8. Finally, the Scriptures tell us that all mankind shall be saved. ALL, meaning everyone. Who shall be Saved? “For God locks up all together in stubbornness, that He should be merciful to all” (Romans 11:32). “Our Savior, God, Who wills that all mankind be saved and come into a realization of the truth” (1 Timothy 2:4). “We rely on the living God, Who is the Savior of all mankind” (1 Timothy 4:10).
2/11/2016 1:27:51 PM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
walt_oftheearth Avondale, AZ 61, joined Feb. 2008	Quote from visitingfriends: A poem I wrote some years ago. Why Jesus Wept Did you ever stop and wonder why On the night before He died The tears ran down our Savior’s Face As openly he cried. Every person who would ever live Passed before the Lord that night, He saw the ones that wouldn’t be saved It was a painful sight. He knew that He’d be lifted up. To draw all men to him. He saw how men would turn their backs And continued with their sins. He saw how for a little pleasure. Some men their souls would sell. And how that they rejected God And sent them selves to Hell. I’d like for everyone to stop and think Of all the things you do Could you stand before the throne of God Or was one tear for you. by Danny That's a great work of creativity, and I'd say definitely inspiration, too, Danny. I'm so glad you posted it. It's a keeper! I'm puttin'it on my meditation wall. Did I ever mention that I Lived in Marysville, CA from 2004 - 2007 ? I ask because I remember seeing that as where you lived a couple years ago.
2/11/2016 2:17:59 PM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
prophetic774 Winter Haven, FL 65, joined Feb. 2011	Now TNT believes that Revelation 20:13,14 and Revelation 21:8 absolutely proves his ridiculous Annihilation fairy tale. Revelation 20::13,14: The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and DEATH and HADES gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done Then death and Hades were thrown into the LAKE OF FIRE. The LAKE OF FIRE is the SECOND DEATH. If anyone's name was not found written in the Book of Life, he will be thrown into the LAKE OF FIRE! Revelation 21:8: But the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts and the idolaters--their place will be in the FIERY LAKE OF BURNING SULFUR. This is the SECOND DEATH! So here we learn that all unbelievers who suffered the FIRST DEATH in HADES will also suffer the SECOND DEATH in the FIERY LAKE OF BURNING SULFUR which is called the SECOND DEATH! Now TNT claims that when the lost are thrown in the FIERY LAKE OF BURNING SULFUR this proves that they will be immediately burned up and ANNIHILATED and will not suffer any further punishment???? However Revelation 19:20 and Revelation 20:10 shows that 666, his False Prophet and the Devil will be thrown ALIVE into the FIERY LAKE OF BURNING SULFUR and will be TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOR EVER AND EVER and Revelation 14:9-11 shows that all of their followers will also suffer the exact same fate!!! Revelation 19:20; 20:10: But, the beast will be captured, and with him the False Prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf {See Rev 13:11-18}. With these signs he will delude those who receive the mark of the Beast and worship his image. The two of them were will be thrown ALIVE into the FIERY LAKE OF BURNING SULFUR!!...And the Devil, who deceived them, will be thrown into the LAKE OF BURNING SULFUR, where the Beast and the False Prophet had been thrown. They will be TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOR EVER AND EVER!! Revelation 14:9-11: A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: "If anyone worships the Beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury , which has been thrown full strength into the cup of His wrath. He will be TORMENTED WITH BURNING SULFUR in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their TORMENT rises FOR EVER AND EVER. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the Beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name!!" SEVEN times in the NT Jesus stated that there would be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH in FIERY FURNACE!!! In Matthew 8:12; 13:42,50; 22:13; 24:31; 25:30 an Luke13: 28!! Matthew 13:40-43: Jesus says, "So it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the FIERY FURNACE, where there will be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH**!! Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who as ears ,let him hear!!" And so TNT's, SDA's and Urantia's ridiculous annihilation fairy tale is completely disproved in the INSPIRED WORDS OF GOD!!!!!
2/11/2016 3:35:07 PM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 63, joined Oct. 2007	Ya know what I'm tired of? Some idiot Catholics trying to change history because the historical facts don't align with their own beliefs. The facts are that "hell" didn't come about until about the 5th century. The facts tell us that "hell" was not hot nor could it have held anyone for "eternity." CLV Re 20:14 And death and the unseen were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death--the lake of fire. If "hell" is cast into the lake of fire how can it hold anyone for all "eternity"? Oh, and do you know what makes these Catholic idiots? I said so. No other reason. Of course there is no such thing as "hell." It was a Catholic invention (man-made) and taken from bits and pieces of pagan rites and religions. For example, compare the god of the Underworld Pluto/Hades to the devil and "hell." Or Osiris, god of the dead from Ancient Egypt. Or Anubis, the god associated with mummification and the afterlife in ancient Egyptian religion. Some interesting similarities there. The funny thing is, the Jews/Israel didn't have a "hell." Most Jews today don't believe there is a "hell." Most Orthodox Jews believe in the Resurrection of the Messiah and His Millennial Kingdom. Pretty much like Danial prophesied. And this is based on the research of Jewish scholars. Remember, the Jews have had the OT much longer than any other group of people. And how do the Catholic reconcile these variations from the Catholic doctrines? The answer to that has got to be the most ridiculous and absurd thing you ever heard. Go ahead. Ask a Catholic how there could be a "hell" if there is no Ancient word for "hell." Get ready for a laugh.
2/11/2016 3:41:49 PM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
cupocheer Assumption, IL 67, joined May. 2010	Same Chapter, different verse, Big.
2/11/2016 4:12:05 PM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 63, joined Oct. 2007	CLV Re 20:13 And the sea gives up the dead in it, and death and the unseen give up the dead in them. And they were condemned, each in accord with their acts. 14 And death and the unseen were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death--the lake of fire. Happy now?
2/11/2016 8:58:38 PM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
Equalizer21 Seattle, WA 53, joined Oct. 2014	It’s hard to conceive of a sinner experiencing an eternal quality of judgment without it lasting forever. Punishment in hell is defined by the word aionios, which is the word eternal or everlasting. There are people who would like to redefine that word aionios and say, "Well, it doesn't really mean forever." But if you do that with hell, you've just done it with heaven, because the same word is used to describe both. If there is not an everlasting hell, then there is not an everlasting heaven. And I'll go one beyond that. The same word is used to describe God. And so if there is not an everlasting hell, then there is not an everlasting heaven, nor is there an everlasting God. It is clear that God is eternal; and, therefore, that heaven is eternal, and so is hell. (John MacArthur, “A Testimony of One Surprised to Be in Hell, Part 2”) Augustine put it simply more than 1,500 years ago: “To say that life eternal shall be endless,but that] punishment eternal shall come to an end is the height of absurdity.” Well put. I'm not going to say absurd, not that it's not in my speech patterns, I'm trying to refrain from inflammatory speech., even if it's only or a few hours. It defies logic, might be what I would say , right now. [Edited 2/11/2016 8:59:20 PM ]
2/12/2016 12:28:57 AM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
Equalizer21 Seattle, WA 53, joined Oct. 2014
2/12/2016 6:31:33 AM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
cupocheer Assumption, IL 67, joined May. 2010
2/12/2016 7:27:57 AM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 63, joined Oct. 2007	Punishment in hell is defined by the word aionios, which is the word eternal or everlasting. Actually, this poster is wrong...again. As this poster does not use the Bible I will have to find something using the word "everlasting." CLV Lk 18:30 who may not by all means be getting back manyfold in this era, and in the coming eon, life eonian. From Strong's... G165 aion ahee-ohn' from the same as G104; properly, an age; by extension, perpetuity (also past); by implication, the world; specially (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future). Compare G5550. This is G165. It means 'age." It is NOT G166, 'aionios,' which is an entirely different word. Some here are easily confused.
2/12/2016 8:29:22 AM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
rtay Port Saint Lucie, FL 65, joined Aug. 2010	Quote from bigd9832: Actually, this poster is wrong...again. As this poster does not use the Bible I will have to find something using the word "everlasting." CLV Lk 18:30 who may not by all means be getting back manyfold in this era, and in the coming eon, life eonian. From Strong's... G165 aion ahee-ohn' from the same as G104; properly, an age; by extension, perpetuity (also past); by implication, the world; specially (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future). Compare G5550. This is G165. It means 'age." It is NOT G166, 'aionios,' which is an entirely different word. Some here are easily confused. This is from your clv.CLV) Mt 25:46 And these shall be coming~ away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian." It had a little number below it,for some reason it was G166.
2/12/2016 8:52:02 AM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 63, joined Oct. 2007	The adjective aionios, a derivative of aion, carries within itself its own solution; for aionios is simply what belongs or relates to the aions—"of the ages" or "age-long," hence it cannot carry a force or express a duration greater than that of the "ages" or aions which it speaks of. If therefore these "ages" are limited periods, some of which are already past, while others are yet to come, the word aionios cannot mean infinity. This fact does not in the least affect the true eternity of bliss of God's people; for that depends not upon the meaning of the word aionios, but upon such explicit, unmistakable assertions as those declaring that such as attain to the resurrection from the dead "cannot die any more" (Luke 20:36), or "neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creation, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Rom.8:38,39). The word 'aion' (G165) is used 128 times in the NT while 'aionios' (G166) is used 71 times. CLV Lk 20:35 Yet those deemed worthy to happen upon that eon and the resurrection from among the dead are neither marrying nor taking out in marriage. 36 For neither can they still be dying, for they are equal to messengers, and are the sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Since they cannot die anymore they cannot be burned in an "everlasting" fire. However, they can be in a fire that lasts for an eon. The word 'aionios' comes from the Ancient Greek word 'aion.' It cannot mean "everlasting" or "forever." If 'aion' means "age" "age" then 'aionios' definition is based on "age." There are 5 "eons" or "ages" mentioned in the Bible and times before and after the eons. How can this division represent "everlasting"? CLV 2Ti 1:9 Who saves us and calls us with a holy calling, not in accord with our acts, but in accord with His own purpose and the grace which is given to us in Christ Jesus before times eonian, CLV Re 1:6 and makes us a kingdom and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and might for the eons of the eons! Amen! CLV Mt 13:39 Now the enemy who sows them is the Adversary. Now the harvest is the conclusion of the eon. Now the reapers are messengers. Each "eon" or "age" has it's own beginning and ending. None of these "eons" are "eternal." The word "world" is a legacy mistake. One of the oboslete definition for the word "world" is "age." This is reflected in the old saying, "They are worlds apart," which means, "They are ages apart." But if you can look up the obsolete definitions of the word "world" you will find "age" among them. It seems no one bothered to change the word in the KJV. Perhaps this was on purpose to hide the meaning of the word.
2/12/2016 9:06:43 AM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 63, joined Oct. 2007	Quote from rtay: This is from your clv.CLV) Mt 25:46 And these shall be coming~ away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian." It had a little number below it,for some reason it was G166. CLV Mt 25:46 And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian. AV Mt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. I am not sure where you are looking. But as I have already explained aionios (G166) cannot mean "everlasting" or "eternal" as it comes from 'aion' (G165) which means "age." That would be like saying that "eternal" means "age" but "eternity" means "forever." This is an analogy only. I do know that "eternal" does not mean "age." However 'aion' does mean age and as 'aionios' is derived from 'aion' it cannot mean "everlasting." There are plenty of other blunders much like this one in your KJV. I have listed many of them in my past threads. I have also written extensively on aion/olam. Some of the thread I made on Eons or Ages... Time in the Scriptures https://DateHookup.dating/Thread-41633.htm Olam & Aion, Age or Eternal? https://DateHookup.dating/Thread-285801.htm What is Time? https://DateHookup.dating/Thread-503318.htm OMG - What a Mess! https://DateHookup.dating/Thread-764425.htm Aion/Olam can not be 'Eternal' https://DateHookup.dating/Thread-757523.htm The World, not the Earth Which inclues charts. https://DateHookup.dating/Thread-943651.htm The Importance of an Aion/Olam https://DateHookup.dating/Thread-1183864.htm Forever or an Age? https://DateHookup.dating/Thread-739943.htm
2/12/2016 11:19:20 AM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
Equalizer21 Seattle, WA 53, joined Oct. 2014	Bigd is a slickster, always playing word games, rather it be in the bible, or just interacting with people. He has progressed so far, that he actually deceives people, purpsefully, without remorse. The scripture that come to mind are. Handling the word deceitfully, deceitful worker, obsessed with disputes over words, is proud knowing nothing. I don't have time to provide the scripture, you ALL , should know them by now. Here's his latest word game 2 fold. CLV Mt 25:46 And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian. notice bigd uses the word chastening, instead of the word punishment, this fits his all get saved message.The concordance gives you three choices, punishment, chastening,penalty, then surrounding scripture would give you a flavor of how it should be used. Chastening is completely out because of the finality of the 2nd death. Yet this is where bigd gets the idea, all, will be saved, even after the lake of fire. We're supposedly, they are dead and asleep because of God's penalty, but then he awakens them. Some sort of purgatory doctrine. G 166 without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be without beginning without end, never to cease, everlasting G 165 for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity the worlds, universe period of time, age then bigd says something about 166, can't mean eternsl, because it's from 165, and 165 means age. Yet that's why we use different words to describe different things. Also 165 does speak of eternal, so bigd just picks and chooses what he wants the bible to be rewritten too, but he has to deceive you first to get you to beliece, knoch and him, understand tge bible translations better than most people on the face of tge earth
2/12/2016 11:27:10 AM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
Equalizer21 Seattle, WA 53, joined Oct. 2014	I am not sure where you are looking. But as I have already explained aionios (G166) cannot mean "everlasting" or "eternal" as it comes from 'aion' (G165) which means "age." bigd says, 165 can't mean eternal, yet by Strong's definition,he certainly says it can That would be like saying that "eternal" means "age" but "eternity" means "forever." This is an analogy only. I do know that "eternal" does not mean "age." personal interpretation (
2/12/2016 10:43:53 PM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 63, joined Oct. 2007	1. The translators have not been consistent in their work, but have translated the Ancient Greek term 'aion' into many different English terms. Perhaps according to their own opinions... a) ages - Eph.2:7, Col. 1:26 b) course - Eph. 2:2 c) world - Matt. 12:32, 13:22, 39, 49, Rom. 2:12, 1Tim. 16:17, etc. d) eternal - Eph. 3:11, 1Tim. 1:17, e) for ever - Matt. 21:19, Mark 11:14, Luke 1:55, John 6:51, 58, etc. f) never (with a negative) - Mark 3:29, John 4:14, 8:51, 52, 10:28, 11:26, 13:8 g) ever - Heb. 7:24 h) for evermore - Heb. 7:28 i) while the world standeth - 1Cor. 8:13 If 'aion' really meant 'forever' in an absolute sense, all of these other translations would not have been necessary. 2. Forever can only be singular. No knowledge of the Ancient languages is necessary to know this. A plural form of the word would be impossible. And yet the plural form is used frequently... AV Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. Here the term 'age' can not mean 'forever' in the absolute, or else it's plural form would make it meaningless. Imagine what this verse might say if 'aion' was translated as 'forevers.' AV Col 1:26 [Even] the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints For further proof, again this verse would make no sense if 'aion' was translated 'forevers.' 3. 'Forever' and/or 'eternity' has no beginning. And yet the Scriptures clearly discusses a time before 'eternity'... AV 1C 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory: AV 2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, AV Ti 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began As another act of irreverence, the term 'world' here is substituted for the plural form of 'aion.' If the word 'aion' truly meant 'world' why just carry that significance here? Why not consistently translate it as 'world' through out the Scriptures? 4. How can there be an end to 'eternity?' The Scriptures talk about the end of 'aion.' Does 'eternity' have an end? AV Mt 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. The term 'world' again becomes a stand-in for the concept of 'forever.' This harvest is at the end of forever. So says the KJV. AV 1C 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. Evidently the 'world' has more than one end, as the Ancient Greek term 'aion' is, again, in it's plural form. This shows that the eons not only have an end, but many ends rather than not any at all (as in 'forever'). AV Heb 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. Now this one is kinda tricky. The first usage of the term 'world' is actually correct. 'World' is representing the Ancient Greek term 'kosmos.' However, the second usage of the term 'world' is once again rendered from the Ancient Greek term 'aion.' Once again, in this verse, the term 'aion' is in it's plural form. This proves that the translators have not been true or consistent to the sacred text. We also know that the world does not end when the Lord appears, neither did the ages end. This verse is yet another proof that the 'eons' have an end and do not last 'forever.'
2/13/2016 1:55:28 AM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 63, joined Oct. 2007	Consistantly translated. That is the mark of a Good English version. It is the first order of business. If it is true that God has reconciled Himslef to mankind, and revealed Himself in His written Word, then it is our responsibility to make sure we are getting the Words that He has provided, and not some interpretation of those Words. 2 Timothy 1:13 - Have a pattern of sound words, which you hear from me, in faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. A pattern of Sound Words are what every English version of the Bible needs to have. It is our Sword. Ephe 6:17 (CLV) And receive the helmet of salvation and the sword of the spirit, which is a declaration of God. THE course of times, in the Scriptures, is divided into three grand divisions: the eons or ages, the time before they began, and the time after they have run their course. Almost all of God's revelation is confined to the eons, yet it is of the utmost value to know that they are not eternal in the past nor everlasting in the future. They have definite boundaries. We know nothing of the commencement of time before the eons, nor of the end of the time after the eons, but the eons themselves are marked by a definite beginning and a predetermined end. Eternity, if we wish to use a term not sanctioned by Scripture, might be loosely applied to either the pre-eonian or the post-eonian times, but can never be correctly coupled with any age or eon, or with the whole course of the eons. Just as we are, at present near the end or conclusion of an eon, so the time will come when mankind will reach the consummation of all the eons. Each one is a definite length of time and the duration of all the eons is but the sum of the duration of each one. Very little, indeed, is said of the times before the eons. Paul, to whom alone the full scope of God's revelation was disclosed, tells us of the times outside the eons, just as he, too, enlarges the sphere of God's grace to include the entire universe. In both space and time he transcends the earth- bound eonian limits of previous unfoldings and enlarges our vision to include heaven as well as earth, and all time, of which the eons are but a parenthesis. He tells us of God's promises given us before the eonian times (2 Tim.1:9; Titus 1:2). The translator's of our Authorized version, realizing the fact that their theology would not allow them to render it "eternal" or "everlasting," as they have done everywhere else except in Rom.16:25, changed boldly to "before the world began," leaving out the word times and substituting world for "eternal." The Revisers, to their great credit, were consistent to the point of absurdity. They render it "before times eternal," an impossible phrase, which, while it mars their work and makes no sense, at least suggests to the discerning student that "eternal" is not as ancient as has been supposed. In passing, it is worth while to note the great value of consistency in the translation of this passage. Judged by every other standard, the old reading is much better. Yet the absurdly consistent rendering is the one which transmits the true thought, distorted though it be. One step further in the same direction and the Revisers would have discovered to our view the great doctrine of the eons. They should have chosen some term which connects their eternal with their oft-repeated margin for "ever." This we have tried to do in the words "eon" and "eonian." The conclusion of the eons is likewise involved in obscurity in our versions. They suggest that this august event has already occurred at the manifestation of Christ (Heb.9:26). However the words may be translated, the argument of the passage is clear. The high priest went in every year with the blood of others. Not so Christ. He sacrificed Himself once. There was no sacrifice on His part from the disruption, when sin entered, until His manifestation. Neither will there be any further offering needed all the way to the conclusion of the eons, when sin is repudiated. The single suffering of Christ suffices both for the past and future, from sin's entrance to its exit, from the disruption to the conclusion of the eons, when sin is put away. There is a sense in which sin is "put away" potentially or in the experience of the believer, but in the sense here indicated, as the antithesis of the disruption, it can refer only to the actual removal of sin itself—which will occur at the very time indicated, the conclusion of the eons. from: The Unveiling of Jesus Christ
2/14/2016 8:41:15 PM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
Equalizer21 Seattle, WA 53, joined Oct. 2014	Quote from rtay: Some thoughts concerning Hell. Doesn’t Matthew 25:46 say the wicked will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life?” Good question. For no good exegetical reason, some Annihilationists have understood the word “eternal” to refer, not to a duration of time, but to the quality of God’s judgment. It’s eternal in quality, even though it has an end. Other Annihilationists say “eternal” refers to the effect of divine judgment. That is to say, God’s judgment results in death—as in extinction, annihilation—which is a state of non-being that lasts eternally. If you’re having a hard time bending your mind around that, you’re not alone. It’s hard to conceive of a sinner experiencing an eternal quality of judgment without it lasting forever. Matthew 25:46 clearly teaches that the duration of punishment and life are alike, both eternal. John MacArthur has said, Punishment in hell is defined by the word aionios, which is the word eternal or everlasting. There are people who would like to redefine that word aionios and say, "Well, it doesn't really mean forever." But if you do that with hell, you've just done it with heaven, because the same word is used to describe both. If there is not an everlasting hell, then there is not an everlasting heaven. And I'll go one beyond that. The same word is used to describe God. And so if there is not an everlasting hell, then there is not an everlasting heaven, nor is there an everlasting God. It is clear that God is eternal; and, therefore, that heaven is eternal, and so is hell. (John MacArthur, “A Testimony of One Surprised to Be in Hell, Part 2”) Augustine put it simply more than 1,500 years ago: “To say that life eternal shall be endless, [but that] punishment eternal shall come to an end is the height of absurdity.” Apart from the metaphysical problem (How can something that no longer exists be said to last forever?), there’s a very serious problem with the “cessation of existence” view—it fails to account for a Lawgiver who is infinite and eternal by nature. The severity of an offense is measured, not merely by the nature of the act itself, but also in relation to the one offended. It’s like that with offenses committed against a holy God. Since an offense against a finite lawgiver is finite, the punishment to satisfy the offense is also finite. That’s the principle behind Exodus 21, an eye for an eye (Exodus 21:23-25). But an offense against an infinite, eternal Lawgiver is not finite; it’s infinite and eternal. It is up to the Judge to determine the severity of the infraction itself—i.e., telling a “white” lie versus committing homicide—but the nature of the infraction is measured against the nature of God who is holy and eternal. Likewise, God, who is perfect in righteousness, determines the justice an infraction demands. According to His Word, the punishment for an offense against a holy God is everlasting torment in hell. The biblical doctrine of an eternal hell gives us yet another reason to praise God for the gospel. It took an eternal person to satisfy an eternal penalty against sin, which disqualified the entire human race, except one Person—Jesus Christ. He is the Son of man and the eternal Son of God. When Jesus laid down His life, His sacrifice satisfied every requirement of divine justice. For those who trust in Jesus Christ as their Substitute, His death has satisfied the eternal wrath of an eternal, righteous God. He bore our punishment in His body, absorbing God’s eternal wrath. But for those who do not embrace Christ, they are left to themselves—they bear the guilt of their offenses against an eternal God, and they will suffer for it eternally, never able to satisfy His eternal wrath. Travis Allen Director of Internet Ministry rt Rtay, Knoch and big d say, that at the judgement seat, all get saved. Jesus clearly says, he separates them, and one goes to everlasting punishment, the other to eternal life. Now even if we accepted bigdseptions debate everlasting, only means an AGE. then the wicked get tormented for an age, and that certainly blows the heck out of their theology 2 fold, that ALL get saved and there is an age, of torment.
2/14/2016 9:00:35 PM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
cupocheer Assumption, IL 67, joined May. 2010	Hell, per se, is not referred to in the Bible as hell, however, three refefdnces in the New Testament "infer" fire(s) of hell of eternal torment. Since the reference is made in the NT it is fair to suggest that some of the documentation which has never been found it has been destroyed could possibly refer to a place where "hell" has the fire(s) of hell. The terminology was translated from both the Greek and Hebrew and may even be derived from antiquated words of the ancient languages which are now defunct or never had a translation made for. The Bible, Torah, Quaran are not all inclusive religions recordings. Buy the are the best, and mist complete record we have available to us in this day and age. The ancient wording is reference for "hell" cannot be proved nor disapproved.
2/14/2016 9:40:29 PM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
visitingfriends Evansville, WI 76, joined Jan. 2011	Quote from walt_oftheearth: That's a great work of creativity, and I'd say definitely inspiration, too, Danny. I'm so glad you posted it. It's a keeper! I'm puttin'it on my meditation wall. Did I ever mention that I Lived in Marysville, CA from 2004 - 2007 ? I ask because I remember seeing that as where you lived a couple years ago. You must have me mixed up with someone else Walt, I have been a Wisconsin native all of my life. Glad you enjoyed the poem.
2/15/2016 12:13:04 AM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 63, joined Oct. 2007	Hell, per se, is not referred to in the Bible as hell, Of course not. "hell" is a made up word added to the Bible. however, three refefdnces in the New Testament "infer" fire(s) of hell of eternal torment. I find this hard to believe. Perhaps this poster can show us what three references she is referring to? Or maybe she just made that up. The ancient wording is reference for "hell" cannot be proved nor disapproved. Of course it can. We have thousands of manuscripts for the OT and NT. There just is no reference to a "hell" in any of them. And yet, there it is, plain as day in the KJV. For example, we know there is a heaven because it is in the Bible... CLV Gn 1:1 IN A BEGINNING Created by the Elohim were the heavens and the earth. The Ancient Hebrew word for "heaven" is 'shamayim.' The word for "Earth" is ''erets.' But there is no word for "hell." There are many Ancient Greek and Hebrew scholars who study these Ancient manuscripts. Imagine their surprise to find out that there is no proof for what they have devoted their lives to.
2/17/2016 11:26:12 AM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
Equalizer21 Seattle, WA 53, joined Oct. 2014	FJO and urantians say, Jesus didn't die for their sins. Yet they preach we must keep his commands, and do his works. This is denying God's will that Jesus suffer and die for our sins. Blaspheming God and Jesus. Then it's also preaching to work your way into heaven. FJO,thinks he's better than christians and attacks them in the Christian forum.
2/17/2016 12:15:47 PM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 63, joined Oct. 2007	More lies from duggy... Quote from duggy/equal: G 166 without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be without beginning without end, never to cease, everlasting G 165 for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity the worlds, universe period of time, age These are not from Strong's. I have no idea where he is getting this, but it is NOT from Strong's. The actual Strong's entry is... G165 aion ahee-ohn' from the same as G104; properly, an age; by extension, perpetuity (also past); by implication, the world; specially (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future). Compare G5550. G166 aionios ahee-o'-nee-os from G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well). I have been perfectly willing to admit that I do not agree with Strong's on this point. However, I did not lie (like some here) about what is in Strong's Concordance. 'aionion' (or aionios, as Strong's has it) is derived from 'aion,' so it cannot mean "eternal," "everlasting," or "for ever," as the KJV suggests. From the Keyword Concordance... eon - the longest segment of time known in the Scriptures. Seven distinct divisions are indicated: pre-eonian times (2Tim. 1:9) five eons, two of which are future (called the eons of the eons, Rev. 1:6) and the time after the conclusions of the eons (Heb. 9:26) There is more to this definition, if anyone is interested.
2/17/2016 5:27:37 PM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
Equalizer21 Seattle, WA 53, joined Oct. 2014	Equalizer21 Over 2,000 Posts (2,664) Seattle, WA FJO and urantians say, Jesus didn't die for their sins. Yet they preach we must keep his commands, and do his works. This is denying God's will that Jesus suffer and die for our sins. Blaspheming God and Jesus. Then it's also preaching to work your way into heaven. FJO,thinks he's better than christians and attacks them in the Christian forum.
2/18/2016 9:17:40 AM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 63, joined Oct. 2007	The terminology was translated from both the Greek and Hebrew and may even be derived from antiquated words of the ancient languages which are now defunct or never had a translation made for. Defunct? These words may not be used as a language anymore, but they are alive and well in the Ancient Manuscripts that have been lovingly preserved. So it would not be too much of a chore to look them up and determine their meanings. The ancient wording is reference for "hell" cannot be proved nor disapproved. Of course it can. CLV Mt 5:34 Yet I am saying to you absolutely not to swear, neither by heaven, for it is the throne of God, The Ancient word for "heaven" is 'ouranos.' The Ancient word for "throne" is 'thronos.' But there is no Ancient word for "hell." None. Nada. Zip.
2/18/2016 4:17:18 PM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
prophetic774 Winter Haven, FL 65, joined Feb. 2011	Quote from tnteacher101: Equal: I don't find anyplace in the Bible where Yeshua or the true 12 Apostles taught that Yeshua's mission was to die for our sins. Steve Isaiah 53:5,6: "But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all!" NOTE: Jesus is called the LAMB 28 times in Revelation! Revelation 5:6,8,9: John a TRUE APOSTLE said, "Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the Throne...He came and took the scroll from the right hand of Him who sat on the Throne, And when He had taken it, the four living creatures and the 24 Elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints, And they sang a new song: "You are worthy to take the scroll, and to open its seals, because You were slain, and WITH YOUR BLOOD you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation!!" Revelation 1:4,5: John, a TRUE APOSTLE said, "Grace and peace to you from.... Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness.... to Him who loves us and has FREED US FROM OUR SINS BY HIS BLOOD, and made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve His God and Father--to Him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen." I Peter 1:18,19: Peter, a TRUE APOSTLE said, "For you know that it was not with perishable sins such as silver and gold that you were REDEEMED from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, but WITH THE PRECIOUS BLOOD OF CHRIST, a Lamb without blemish or defect!!"
2/18/2016 6:44:05 PM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
cupocheer Assumption, IL 67, joined May. 2010	Why are there only 7 days in a week instead of 8?
2/18/2016 10:27:24 PM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
Equalizer21 Seattle, WA 53, joined Oct. 2014	Yeah, God's word is under attack in the Christian forum. That's for sure. That's ok. Isaiah 59:19 So shall they fear The name of the Lord from the west, And His glory from the rising of the sun; When the enemy comes in like a flood, The Spirit of the Lord will lift up a standard against him.
2/19/2016 1:04:29 PM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 63, joined Oct. 2007	Quote from ludlow: Knoch and big d say, that at the judgement seat, all get saved. Jesus clearly says, he separates them, and one goes to everlasting punishment, the other to eternal life. Two more lies told by duggy-doo/equal. The judgment is where God decides what will happen to us. Yes, eventaully we will all be saved. But some of us will undergo punishment and a sort of cleansing process. Some of us will enjoy the Millinnium. The word "everlasting" does not appear in every English version. Only those who have myopia and can only see the KJV might conclude that there is an "everlasting" punishment. It is a sick and twisted view. Those who are able to see past the KJV may understand that the word aion cannot mean "everlasting," "eternal," or "for ever." YLT Mt 25:46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.' CLV Mt 25:46 And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian."
2/19/2016 5:29:56 PM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
prophetic774 Winter Haven, FL 65, joined Feb. 2011	Quote from tnteacher101: Equal: I don't find anyplace in the Bible where Yeshua or the true 12 Apostles taught that Yeshua's mission was to die for our sins. Steve Isaiah 53:5,6: "But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all!" NOTE: Jesus is called the LAMB 28 times in Revelation! Revelation 5:6,8,9: John a TRUE APOSTLE said, "Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the Throne...He came and took the scroll from the right hand of Him who sat on the Throne, And when He had taken it, the four living creatures and the 24 Elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints, And they sang a new song: "You are worthy to take the scroll, and to open its seals, because You were slain, and WITH YOUR BLOOD you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation!!" Revelation 1:4,5: John, a TRUE APOSTLE said, "Grace and peace to you from.... Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness.... to Him who loves us and has FREED US FROM OUR SINS BY HIS BLOOD, and made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve His God and Father--to Him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen." I Peter 1:18,19: Peter, a TRUE APOSTLE said, "For you know that it was not with perishable sins such as silver and gold that you were REDEEMED from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, but WITH THE PRECIOUS BLOOD OF CHRIST, a Lamb without blemish or defect!!" Ephesians 1:3-8; 11: Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with EVERY spiritual blessing in Christ. For He chose us in Him before the creation of the world to be holy and BLAMELESS in His sight. In love He predestined us to be adopted as His sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with His pleasure and will--to the praise of His GLORIOUS GRACE, which He has freely given us in the One He loves. In Him we have REDEMPTION THROUGH HIS BLOOD, the forgiveness of sins. in accordance the riches of God's grace that He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding.....In Him we were also CHOSEN having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of His will! Ephesians 2:4-10: Because of His great love for us, God,, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is BY GRACE you have been saved! And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages He might show the incomparable riches of His grace, expressed in His kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is BY GRACE you have been saved, through faith-- and this NOT FROM YOURSELVES, it is the GIFT of God--NOT BY WORKS*, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do! Hebrews 9:26-28: But now He {Jesus} has appeared once for all at the end of the ages TO DO AWAY WITH SINS BY THE SACRIFICE OF HIMSELF**. Just as man is destined to die once , and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people. Hebrews 10:8-10: First He said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings You did not desire, nor were You pleased with them." Although the law required them to be made. Then He said, "Here I am, I have come to do Your will." He sets aside the first to establish the second. And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus once for all!!
2/20/2016 1:55:11 PM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
Equalizer21 Seattle, WA 53, joined Oct. 2014	Quote from rtay: Some thoughts concerning Hell. Doesn’t Matthew 25:46 say the wicked will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life?” Good question. For no good exegetical reason, some Annihilationists have understood the word “eternal” to refer, not to a duration of time, but to the quality of God’s judgment. It’s eternal in quality, even though it has an end. Other Annihilationists say “eternal” refers to the effect of divine judgment. That is to say, God’s judgment results in death—as in extinction, annihilation—which is a state of non-being that lasts eternally. If you’re having a hard time bending your mind around that, you’re not alone. It’s hard to conceive of a sinner experiencing an eternal quality of judgment without it lasting forever. Matthew 25:46 clearly teaches that the duration of punishment and life are alike, both eternal. John MacArthur has said, Punishment in hell is defined by the word aionios, which is the word eternal or everlasting. There are people who would like to redefine that word aionios and say, "Well, it doesn't really mean forever." But if you do that with hell, you've just done it with heaven, because the same word is used to describe both. If there is not an everlasting hell, then there is not an everlasting heaven. And I'll go one beyond that. The same word is used to describe God. And so if there is not an everlasting hell, then there is not an everlasting heaven, nor is there an everlasting God. It is clear that God is eternal; and, therefore, that heaven is eternal, and so is hell. (John MacArthur, “A Testimony of One Surprised to Be in Hell, Part 2”) Augustine put it simply more than 1,500 years ago: “To say that life eternal shall be endless, [but that] punishment eternal shall come to an end is the height of absurdity.” Apart from the metaphysical problem (How can something that no longer exists be said to last forever?), there’s a very serious problem with the “cessation of existence” view—it fails to account for a Lawgiver who is infinite and eternal by nature. The severity of an offense is measured, not merely by the nature of the act itself, but also in relation to the one offended. It’s like that with offenses committed against a holy God. Since an offense against a finite lawgiver is finite, the punishment to satisfy the offense is also finite. That’s the principle behind Exodus 21, an eye for an eye (Exodus 21:23-25). But an offense against an infinite, eternal Lawgiver is not finite; it’s infinite and eternal. It is up to the Judge to determine the severity of the infraction itself—i.e., telling a “white” lie versus committing homicide—but the nature of the infraction is measured against the nature of God who is holy and eternal. Likewise, God, who is perfect in righteousness, determines the justice an infraction demands. According to His Word, the punishment for an offense against a holy God is everlasting torment in hell. The biblical doctrine of an eternal hell gives us yet another reason to praise God for the gospel. It took an eternal person to satisfy an eternal penalty against sin, which disqualified the entire human race, except one Person—Jesus Christ. He is the Son of man and the eternal Son of God. When Jesus laid down His life, His sacrifice satisfied every requirement of divine justice. For those who trust in Jesus Christ as their Substitute, His death has satisfied the eternal wrath of an eternal, righteous God. He bore our punishment in His body, absorbing God’s eternal wrath. But for those who do not embrace Christ, they are left to themselves—they bear the guilt of their offenses against an eternal God, and they will suffer for it eternally, never able to satisfy His eternal wrath. Travis Allen Director of Internet Ministry rt Rtay, I'd like to hear your point of view on the idea, the soul isn't eternal. It seems a majority of people believe the soul is asleep, it can't hear, or feel, or process mentally. They base it on this scripture. Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing, And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten. I personally say they take it out of context. How would Jesus be able to preach to those, who can't perceive or hear? Also, I don't have to believe in immortal soul, because God makes a worm that won't die, in the lake of fire, then he personalized this worm to the one cast alive, into the fire. Why can't God make a human impervious to fire, if he makes THIER worm impervious to fire. Isn't that weird God would make a worm, to represent everyone thrown into the fire, but burn the people themselves up immidiately? To me that's weird and cruel.
2/20/2016 2:18:58 PM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 63, joined Oct. 2007	In death... the body goes back to the ground CLV Gn 3:19 In the sweat of your face shall you eat your bread, till your return to the ground, for from it are you taken, for soil you are, and to soil are you returning. the soul goes to the Unseen [sheol] CLV Ec 9:10 All that your hand finds to do, do with your vigor, For there is no doing or devising or knowledge or wisdom In the unseen where you are going. CLV Ezk 18:4 Lo, all the souls are Mine, As the soul of the father, So also the soul of the son--they are Mine, The soul that is sinning--it does die. CLV Ec 3:19 For the destiny of the sons of humanity And the destiny of the beast, It is one destiny for them; As death is for this one, so is death for that one, And one spirit is for all; There is no advantage for the human over the beast, For the whole is vanity. CLV Ec 3:20 All are going to one place; All have come from the soil, and all return to the soil. and the Spirit back to it's Maker CLV Ec 12:7 And the soil returns to the earth just as it was, And the spirit, it returns to the One, Elohim, Who gave it. You could say death is the great return. I am more concerned what the Scripture says than what anyone else says.
2/20/2016 2:48:20 PM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
Equalizer21 Seattle, WA 53, joined Oct. 2014	Remember your Creator before the silver cord is loosed,[a] Or the golden bowl is broken, Or the pitcher shattered at the fountain, Or the wheel broken at the well. 7 Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it. God's spirit that gives life to the body soul, returns to God. The body returns to dust. The soul is stored in sheol/hell/hades, or paradise, awaiting Judgement and ressurection. John 5:29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
2/20/2016 7:49:17 PM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 63, joined Oct. 2007	Silver cords? Golden Bowls? Broken wheel? These are all Pagan beliefs. Perhaps dugy/equal is a Pagan? And the idea that the soul lives on in some way is also Pagan. CLV Ezk 18:4 Lo, all the souls are Mine, As the soul of the father, So also the soul of the son--they are Mine, The soul that is sinning--it does die. Egyptian is the oldest, I believe.
2/20/2016 9:46:39 PM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
hearthealing Clovis, CA 67, joined Jun. 2013	Thanks for the uncovering here, of both persons in hiding, hummm, I wonder why even if without care of the answer, and the reasons for your Bible study? People, does it NOT even bother you when you pick up that pie to throw at one of the brethren? We ALL live in Glass houses you know. Whoever here amongst you is without SIN, let him cast the first stone. If eternal separation from God and His Love is NOT an everlasting place of nothingness, what else could be of any consideration regarding the name of it's consequence? Just wondering what your point is and why you are all so angry? Nothing matters but His Love and you are a part of this One Love. Lynn Know yourselves
2/20/2016 9:54:21 PM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
Equalizer21 Seattle, WA 53, joined Oct. 2014	Bigd said: CLV Ezk 18:4 Lo, all the souls are Mine, As the soul of the father, So also the soul of the son--they are Mine, The soul that is sinning--it does die. Cant have it both ways Bigd it dies or they all get saved? Anyways, lets look at the difference between die and death. The wages of sin is death. Death = thanatos the death of the body that separation (whether natural or violent) of the soul and the body by which the life on earth is ended with the implied idea of future misery in hell the power of death since the nether world, the abode of the dead, was conceived as being very dark, it is equivalent to the region of thickest darkness i.e. figuratively, a region enveloped in the darkness of ignorance and sin metaph., the loss of that life which alone is worthy of the name, the misery of the soul arising from sin, which begins on earth but lasts and increases after the death of the body in hell the miserable state of the wicked dead in hell in the widest sense, death comprising all the miseries arising from sin, as well physical death as the loss of a life consecrated to God and blessed in him on earth, to be followed by wretchedness in hell Die in ezekial means muwth to die, kill, have one executed (Qal) to die to die (as penalty), be put to death to die, perish (of a nation) to die prematurely (by neglect of wise moral conduct) (Polel) to kill, put to death, dispatch (Hiphil) to kill, put to death (Hophal) to be killed, be put to death to die prematurely Again if the souls were dead how could they be preached to by Jesus? Looks like the word DIE here means, no life, like, life as an unbeliever really isnt life.......they are dead in tresspasses and sins, but they live and are alive. More word games.
2/20/2016 10:12:27 PM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
hearthealing Clovis, CA 67, joined Jun. 2013	Quote from Equalizer21: Bigd said: CLV Ezk 18:4 Lo, all the souls are Mine, As the soul of the father, So also the soul of the son--they are Mine, The soul that is sinning--it does die. Cant have it both ways Bigd it dies or they all get saved? Anyways, lets look at the difference between die and death. The wages of sin is death. Death = thanatos the death of the body that separation (whether natural or violent) of the soul and the body by which the life on earth is ended with the implied idea of future misery in hell the power of death since the nether world, the abode of the dead, was conceived as being very dark, it is equivalent to the region of thickest darkness i.e. figuratively, a region enveloped in the darkness of ignorance and sin metaph., the loss of that life which alone is worthy of the name, the misery of the soul arising from sin, which begins on earth but lasts and increases after the death of the body in hell the miserable state of the wicked dead in hell in the widest sense, death comprising all the miseries arising from sin, as well physical death as the loss of a life consecrated to God and blessed in him on earth, to be followed by wretchedness in hell Die in ezekial means muwth to die, kill, have one executed (Qal) to die to die (as penalty), be put to death to die, perish (of a nation) to die prematurely (by neglect of wise moral conduct) (Polel) to kill, put to death, dispatch (Hiphil) to kill, put to death (Hophal) to be killed, be put to death to die prematurely Again if the souls were dead how could they be preached to by Jesus? Looks like the word DIE here means, no life, like, life as an unbeliever really isnt life.......they are dead in tresspasses and sins, but they live and are alive. More word games. The wages of SIN is DEATH, NOT eternal life in Hell. Death is eternal separation from His Love, NOT eternal punishing. However that separation is eternal punishment. Big difference. One Love
2/20/2016 10:20:32 PM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
Equalizer21 Seattle, WA 53, joined Oct. 2014	Matthew 25:46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
2/20/2016 11:34:59 PM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
Equalizer21 Seattle, WA 53, joined Oct. 2014	What good is punishment, if it isnt everlasting because your dead and cant feel the punishment because your burnt toast? Then it would say, they would be punished with death, But the righteous go into eternal life. Why would God make a worm, that doesnt die, representative of one he threw into lake of fire? Doesnt that seem weird? Why does God say some will be tormented, and people say God doesnt torment? I dont listen well to people who dont have integrity in the word, or play word games. Why does God give us a parable of one who is tormented, and suffering pain, after he suffered death?
2/20/2016 11:39:07 PM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
hearthealing Clovis, CA 67, joined Jun. 2013	Quote from Equalizer21: Matthew 25:46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” And so you nail my point home. Eternal punishment is NOT eternal punishing. Sodom and Gomorrah are NOT still burning in hell fire. That fire burned out. The land there has never been re-inhabited, and it is a REAL place. The peoples that lived there are NO longer and their punishment is Eternal; however the fire has burned out. The PUNISHING is NOT still burning! One Love, Lynn
2/20/2016 11:44:17 PM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
Equalizer21 Seattle, WA 53, joined Oct. 2014	They are still burning in hell. Jude 1:7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Did the cities commit the sin or the people? They are still burning. [Edited 2/20/2016 11:47:13 PM ]
2/21/2016 1:20:16 AM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
Equalizer21 Seattle, WA 53, joined Oct. 2014	Quote from Equalizer21: They are still burning in hell. Jude 1:7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Did the cities commit the sin or the people? They are still burning. God destroyed the cities, yes, but it was because of those dwelling there, it wasn't the cities fault, they are inert buildings and structures. However the poor cities had to suffer, because of the people.... This fire from heaven was intended for the people, so on earth, the eternal fire started. For the people. Bigd says this was only for an age.......yet the people died immediately. So ages don't last a few minutes, ages last for long periods of time. Therefore eternal is correctly placed in that scripture. The judgement was not against the buildings and land, but against the people, so the fire that came from heaven was for the people, was just a start..........God would be lying, ...........again why would God make worms that never die, and buildings to burn eternally? Seems a little weird to me! [Edited 2/21/2016 1:20:55 AM ]
2/21/2016 4:24:40 AM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
rtay Port Saint Lucie, FL 65, joined Aug. 2010	Thanks for the comments. Equalizer21,you have made a good point. First, I would like to address the words; body,soul,spirit Dichotomy or Trichotomy: Are we made of two parts (body and soul) or three parts (body, soul, and spirit)? Theologians have debated the issue for centuries, and there has never been a decisive orthodox declaration of which is true. Dichotomy is a term which signifies a division into two parts: Body and Soul. The words, "spirit" and "soul," are often used interchangeably, therefore, the dichotomous position holds that man is comprised of two parts. Note the following verses used to support this position: "Mary said: My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,'" (Luke 1:46-47). "My soul yearns for you in the night; in the morning my spirit longs for you . . . ," (Isaiah 26:9). For the term, "Body and Soul," see Matt. 6:25, 10:28. For the term, "Body and Spirit," see 1 Cor. 5:3, 5. Trichotomy is a term which signifies a division into 3 parts: Body, Soul, and Spirit. With the following verses, "spirit" and "soul" seem to be different. "May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ," (1 Thess. 5:23). "For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart," (Heb. 4:12). Does it matter if you believe in dichotomy or trichotomy? No. However, a word of caution. There are churches that teach it is possible for Christians to be demon-possessed. These groups hold the trichotomous position. I hold to the Dichotomy view myself.If you like, share your thoughts on this,then we will move on to the immortality of man. rt source: Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry
2/21/2016 6:06:51 AM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	According to The Wanderer, a weekly Catholic newspaper I subscribe to, the human soul and the human spirit are the same thing.
2/21/2016 9:50:34 AM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 63, joined Oct. 2007	Quote from hearthealing: The wages of SIN is DEATH, NOT eternal life in Hell. There are just way too many opinions and man-made doctrines here... CLV Ro 6:23 For the ration of Sin is death, yet the gracious gift of God is life eonian, in Christ Jesus, our Lord. Death, not fire. And certainly not "eternal" fire. Jesus defined the word "death" when HE said... CLV Jn 11:13 Now Jesus had made a declaration concerning his death, yet they suppose that He is saying it concerning the repose of sleep. 14 Jesus, then, said to them with boldness then, "Lazarus died. 15 And I am rejoicing because of you, that you should be believing, seeing that I was not there. But we may be going to him." 16 Thomas, then, who is termed "Didymus," said to his fellow disciples, "We also may be going, that we may be dying with Him." Subsequently Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead and declared... CLV Jn 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the Resurrection and the Life. He who is believing in Me, even if he should be dying, shall be living. 26 And everyone who is living and believing in Me, should by no means be dying for the eon. Are you believing this?" Read John 10 & 11. I am not going to post it all here. There are two Resurrections. Doesn't that suggest that maybe, just maybe, everyone will be resurrected at some point? No one will be left behind. Isn't that the Marine Corps motto? Is God unwilling to do what the Marines do all the time?
2/21/2016 10:08:07 AM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 63, joined Oct. 2007	Quote from rtay: Dichotomy or Trichotomy: Are we made of two parts (body and soul) or three parts (body, soul, and spirit)? Theologians have debated the issue for centuries, and there has never been a decisive orthodox declaration of which is true. Dichotomy is a term which signifies a division into two parts: Body and Soul. The words, "spirit" and "soul," are often used interchangeably, therefore, the dichotomous position holds that man is comprised of two parts. Note the following verses used to support this position: "Mary said: My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,'" (Luke 1:46-47). "My soul yearns for you in the night; in the morning my spirit longs for you . . . ," (Isaiah 26:9). For the term, "Body and Soul," see Matt. 6:25, 10:28. For the term, "Body and Spirit," see 1 Cor. 5:3, 5. It seems that t-ray like to view the Scriptures from man's point of view. In the KJV the word for "soul" (nephesh) is translated into 44 (count them) different English terms. There is something seriously wrong with that. So I can understand when someone might say, "The words, "spirit" and "soul," are often used interchangeably." Find your self a more accurate translation, and leave the interpretations, like the KJV, behind. In the Ancient Hebrew the word 'nephesh' means "soul" and the word 'ruwach' is properly translated as "spirit." So, if these two words are distinguished in the Ancient text, why would they not be distinguished in English? Now t-ray gives us examples from the NT (Ancient Greek) to compare with the one example of the OT (Ancient Hebrew). As these are not the same language, this is like comparing apples and oranges. It is an unfair and untrue comparison. For more information on the soul visit my thread... Soul in the Scriptures https://DateHookup.dating/Thread-38148.htm
2/21/2016 11:12:00 AM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
rtay Port Saint Lucie, FL 65, joined Aug. 2010	F1: A.B.Davidson (Professor of Hebrew & O.T. exegesis, Edinburgh ????? nephesh, as with ????? rûach "spirit", is often used to describe the whole immaterial part of man, i.e., mind, emotions, will, intellect, personality, conscience . . ., that the two are similar is clear by the parallelism in Job 7:11: “I will speak / in the anguish / of my soul (nephesh); I will complain / in the bitterness / of my spirit (ruach)” Job 3:20 also describes the bitterness of soul just as there is a bitterness of spirit in Job 7:11. Other parallelisms between soul and spirit occur in Job 12:10 and Isaiah 26:9. "Any distinction of a substantial or elemental kind between spirit ????? and soul ????? is not to be understood. Neither is the spirit ????? higher than the soul?????, or more allied to God. But the idea of spirit ????? is vitality, strength, power, which is also the idea attached to the spirit????? of God; . . . The spirit????? is the soul????? as possessing or showing power . . .spirit ????? and soul ????? are the same things under different aspects." F1 still can't post this right,sorry rt [Edited 2/21/2016 11:14:01 AM ]
2/21/2016 11:38:06 AM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
prophetic774 Winter Haven, FL 65, joined Feb. 2011	Now TNT believes that Revelation 20:13,14 and Revelation 21:8 absolutely proves his ridiculous Annihilation fairy tale. Revelation 20::13,14: The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and DEATH and HADES gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done Then death and Hades were thrown into the LAKE OF FIRE. The LAKE OF FIRE is the SECOND DEATH. If anyone's name was not found written in the Book of Life, he will be thrown into the LAKE OF FIRE! Revelation 21:8: But the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts and the idolaters--their place will be in the FIERY LAKE OF BURNING SULFUR. This is the SECOND DEATH! So here we learn that all unbelievers who suffered the FIRST DEATH in HADES will also suffer the SECOND DEATH in the FIERY LAKE OF BURNING SULFUR which is called the SECOND DEATH! Now TNT claims that when the lost are thrown in the FIERY LAKE OF BURNING SULFUR this proves that they will be immediately burned up and ANNIHILATED and will not suffer any further punishment???? However Revelation 19:20 and Revelation 20:10 shows that 666, his False Prophet and the Devil will be thrown ALIVE into the FIERY LAKE OF BURNING SULFUR and will be TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOR EVER AND EVER and Revelation 14:9-11 shows that all of their followers will also suffer the exact same fate!!! Revelation 19:20; 20:10: But, the beast will be captured, and with him the False Prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf {See Rev 13:11-18}. With these signs he will delude those who receive the mark of the Beast and worship his image. The two of them were will be thrown ALIVE into the FIERY LAKE OF BURNING SULFUR!!...And the Devil, who deceived them, will be thrown into the LAKE OF BURNING SULFUR, where the Beast and the False Prophet had been thrown. They will be TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOR EVER AND EVER!! Revelation 14:9-11: A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: "If anyone worships the Beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury , which has been thrown full strength into the cup of His wrath. He will be TORMENTED WITH BURNING SULFUR in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their TORMENT rises FOR EVER AND EVER. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the Beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name!!" SEVEN times in the NT Jesus stated that there would be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH in FIERY FURNACE!!! In Matthew 8:12; 13:42,50; 22:13; 24:31; 25:30 an Luke13: 28!! Matthew 13:40-43: Jesus says, "So it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the FIERY FURNACE, where there will be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH**!! Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who as ears ,let him hear!!" And so TNT's, SDA's and Urantia's ridiculous annihilation fairy tale is completely disproved in the INSPIRED WORDS OF GOD!!!!!
2/21/2016 12:48:10 PM	Some thoughts concerning Hell
mindya Jerusalem Israel 63, joined Jan. 2009	Quote from rtay: A.B.Davidson (Professor of Hebrew & O.T. exegesis, Edinburgh Here yer go RT: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.studylight.org/language-studies/hebrew-thoughts/print.cgi?a=839

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some thoughts concerning Hell

Some thoughts concerning Hell