Evolution: the fairy tale 46

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10/4/2008 3:38:50 AM	Evolution: the fairy tale
valion Chicopee, MA age: 56	saint.... "That's arguable. After moving out of the trees and onto the savannah, and being weak and small, it is unlikely we could have stayed as simple as an ape and survived. There's a reason you don't find too many defenseless, weak, ape-like creatures on savannahs filled with speedy predators." There are many ways weak and small creatures survive. Using stealth, the security of a herd/pack or creating secure shelter are a few examples of ways man could have merely survived. He did not need to develop the aircraft carrier to assure existence. "Also, even it were true that it wasn't necessary to evolve our level of intelligence for survival, that doesn't contradict evolution at all. Evolution doesn't predict that whatever evolves will only meet a bare minimum requirement for survival. Whatever the mutations or genetic recombinations produce, whether the gains are large or small, so long as they aid survival they will be spread throughout a population. We could have all remained single-celled bacteria and still survived, too. The point, of course, is that beneficial changes drive evolution, and there is no reason to think these changes have any upper limit." But evolution does seem to merely address the minimal requirement for survival in every other species but man. This doesn't even scratch the surface of credibility regarding your death grip embrace of evolution regarding man? "This isn't true at all. I've pointed out time and time again that Richard Lesnki's research on E. coli have detailed a specific mutation that produced a positive, fitness-increasing result, namely, that the bacteria could then digest citrate. This is just one example among many. It is correct that most mutations will either be harmful or have no effect whatsoever, but it doesn't follow that ALL mutations are harmful. Also, I a subtle argument can be made that your conception of "good" is relative. To use a silly example to illustrate a point, suppose a man evolves gills which harm him because they make his lungs only capable of breathing with 50% the efficiency a normal human would. That's a bad mutation, right? Wrong. Let's further say global warming causes everything to flood. Suddenly this "bad" mutation is "good". It is important to keep in mind the context of an organism's surroundings and that we can't judge mutations as objectively good or bad." Experiments involving bacteria mutating hardly prove mutations are viable as a reliable component supporting the theory of evolution. Go watch a symphony orchestra. Go watch motocross. Watch a doctor perform open heart surgery. Then watch a gorilla sit around eating leaves. Watch a robin hop across the yard looking for worms. Observe a goldfish swimming in a bowl. You don't see the difference? You don't see how everything else is just a basic creature but man? How can you not see this?
10/4/2008 3:44:54 AM	Evolution: the fairy tale
drpepperz Lafayette, LA age: 31	Evolution exists. Man could not build a computer in the ice age. His brain evolved over time . Every creature has evolved whether you want to believe it or not. It has been proven for quite some time. Horses didn't always have hooves, they used to have toes. Certain cells either evolved or disappeared due to natural selection. Over time these cells changed due to the environment. It happened.
10/4/2008 3:54:13 AM	Evolution: the fairy tale
r_7 Sanford, FL age: 45	Natural changes are NOT EVOLUTION as postulated by those with monkey ancesters-poor ancesters. They, the evolutionists are defaming their own ancesters. lol Thank God That my own ancesters were all human creations. lol.
10/4/2008 4:20:36 AM	Evolution: the fairy tale
valion Chicopee, MA age: 56	Quote from drpepperz: Evolution exists. Man could not build a computer in the ice age. His brain evolved over time . Every creature has evolved whether you want to believe it or not. It has been proven for quite some time. Horses didn't always have hooves, they used to have toes. Certain cells either evolved or disappeared due to natural selection. Over time these cells changed due to the environment. It happened. And why has only man of all the species been the one to develop high intelligence? Dolphins have a large brain. Why are they exactly the same as they were millions of years ago? To look at man's achievements and lump them in with those of a fish or a chimp is absurd. How can anybody not see the difference?
10/4/2008 7:02:34 AM	Evolution: the fairy tale
skipaway Bartlett, IL age: 43	:: For ourself :: WOW? How Cool !! I found a very long list of Scientist who have put there names on “A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism” They sign there names to this statement “We are Skeptical of claims for the ability of Random mutation and natural selection to Account for the complexity of life. Careful examination Of the evidence for Darwinian theory should be encouraged” It’s in Adobe script and it looks like there’s about 800 names on it !! http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/filesDB-download.php?command=download&id=660 How cool is that? It was last updated August 2008,
10/4/2008 7:50:41 AM	Evolution: the fairy tale
skipaway Bartlett, IL age: 43	Here’s more fun with cut & paste, Do these big changes really happen? Evolutionists tell us we cannot see evolution taking place because it happens too slowly. A human generation takes about 20 years from birth to parenthood. They say it took tens of thousands of generations to form man from a common ancestor with the ape, from populations of only hundreds or thousands. We do not have these problems with bacteria. A new generation of bacteria grows in as short as 12 minutes or up to 24 hours or more, depending on the type of bacteria and the environment, but typically 20 minutes to a few hours. There are more bacteria in the world than there are grains of sand on all of the beaches of the world (and many grains of sand are covered with bacteria). They exist in just about any environment: heat, cold, dry, wet, high pressure, low pressure, small groups, large colonies, isolated, much food, little food, much oxygen, no oxygen, in toxic chemicals, etc. There is much variation in bacteria. There are many mutations (in fact, evolutionists say that smaller organisms have a faster mutation rate than larger ones4). But they never turn into anything new. They always remain bacteria. Fruit flies are much more complex than already complex single-cell bacteria. Scientists like to study them because a generation (from egg to adult) takes only 9 days. In the lab, fruit flies are studied under every conceivable condition. There is much variation in fruit flies. There are many mutations. But they never turn into anything new. They always remain fruit flies. Many years of study of countless generations of bacteria and fruit flies all over the world shows that evolution is not happening today. I’m going to test my Theory of ::Man it’s a nice day outside, I better turn of this computer Go outside and enjoy my day off Theory ::
10/4/2008 7:57:38 AM	Evolution: the fairy tale
saintgasoline Saint Louis, MO age: 26	Quote from valion: But evolution does seem to merely address the minimal requirement for survival in every other species but man. This doesn't even scratch the surface of credibility regarding your death grip embrace of evolution regarding man? This is nonsense, and you know it. Humans can run at an average high speed of 15 miles per hour. Evolution has created creatures who can run at speeds of 60 miles per hour. Humans can't fly. Evolution has created creatures that can fly. To say that evolution only creates the "minimal" requirement for survival is downright silly if this standard is being used to try to show that humans are somehow "special" in their degree of smartness. I can point out all kinds of traits where animals have traits with degrees of that skill that far surpass us. Experiments involving bacteria mutating hardly prove mutations are viable as a reliable component supporting the theory of evolution. That's not true, but can you at least admit that it shows there can be good mutations, because this is the exact point I was addressing. It obviously disproves that particular claim, so I expect you to stop making that claim. Go watch a symphony orchestra. Go watch motocross. Watch a doctor perform open heart surgery. Go watch a bird fly. Go watch a cheetah run. Go watch ants form societies with farming, slavery, etc. How can you not see this? How can you not see that your idea of a "basic" creature is so vague and ambiguous so as not to even mean anything?
10/4/2008 8:10:51 AM	Evolution: the fairy tale
ourself Hamilton, ON age: 36	I commend you on your research but anyone still using the term Darwinism when talking about evolution is a Creationist and their bias is showing. Many years of study of countless generations of bacteria and fruit flies all over the world shows that evolution is not happening today. This is an outright lie. The Creationist agenda is ripe. You think that because we don't know why evolution happens that it doesn't? And if evolution was proven wrong (which it hasn't been despite the Theists who claim otherwise) that would mean that God did it? Silliness! Tell me how you think fruit flies got to be fruit flies then... Just "Presto" and there's a fruitfly? I'd like to hear a scientific theory on that one, lol!
10/4/2008 8:40:56 AM	Evolution: the fairy tale
sabellious Wrens, GA age: 43	Evolution even though I dont ascribe to it.May have some validity.Why would it , may a christain ask.Simply because there are subspecies that can make rational decissions with out having any morals. For examples atheist are a subspecies of humanity like the chimp and gorilla. The atheist had to evolve from a lower primate that use to not believe in any thing. The reason that they almost went extint was that once predator chased them, the would be hunted down because they didnt believe that they could be eaten alive.
10/4/2008 8:53:12 AM	Evolution: the fairy tale
ourself Hamilton, ON age: 36	In fact Skipaway, instead of getting your information from lobbyists, why not see what Berkely University has to say about it. I can't give you the link because I'm still too new here (getting rather annoying) but google Berkely University Evolution and you'll come to a page that says "Understanding evolution"... Then click on "What is evolution and how does it work? " I don't know what else I can do for you. You can research the facts or you can listen to people who aren't involved with the education process and who have an agenda other than learning. Have you researched what an Evolutionary Biologist is yet? Sabellious... I've decided you are a waste of time. I'm going to have to ignore you from now on unless you find something intelligent to offer or I feel the urge to mock somebody.
10/4/2008 1:03:10 PM	Evolution: the fairy tale
skipaway Bartlett, IL age: 43	Hey uorself, Here’s how to copy and paste a URL, Or text, It helps to have two or more windows open, Move the curser up to where the URL is, Left click on it, and it will take on a shaded look Keep the curser there, then right click Choose copy, click on copy, Then back to where you will be posting, Set the curser to where you want it (where the blinking type line is) Right click again and click on Paste, That’s for a PC, I’m not sure what Kind of computers are used in Canada? J/K <<<<< So? There are a lot of forums debating evolution? http://search.[blocked]/aol/search?query=Creation%2FEvolution+Debate+forums&page=2&nt=SG2&s_it=topsearchbox.search&clickstreamid=-7113386404290186793 Here’s some copy and paste I found from one, slp2 wrote: There are on the order of 400,000 unique indel polymorphisms within the human population. YECism claims humanity began 6,000 years ago. With a 20 year generation time, this means that some 1,333 new indels had to have been produced and kept in the population every generation. This does not include the SNP rate. This mutation rate is intolerable! YECism is impossible. Slp2, now you are starting to do the bookkeeping. I haven’t tried to do scientific studies to try to determine the age of the earth but I have tried to estimate the number of mutations per year which would be required to account for the differences between humans and chimpanzees. Evolutionists allege that humans and chimpanzees diverged about 4,000,000 years ago from a common primate precursor. The human and chimpanzee genome projects show 150,000,000 base differences between human and chimpanzees. If we assume a 10 year generation time, that is only 400,000 generations to account for these 150,000,000 base differences. That’s 375 beneficial mutations per generation. This mutation rate is intolerable! Common descent is impossible.
10/4/2008 1:39:21 PM	Evolution: the fairy tale
ourself Hamilton, ON age: 36	Thanks Skipaway but I know how to do it, I just can't until I've been here for a bit longer. I'm not allowed yet. I didn't tell you to go to another forum where people have just as much knowledge as us, I told you to go to the Berkeley University evolution site! The steps I gave were easy to follow! The professors at Berkeley are a better source than some person on a forum. I'll instant message the link to you so you have no excuse. [Edited 10/4/2008 1:46:27 PM]
10/4/2008 2:26:30 PM	Evolution: the fairy tale
stringsvrs Syracuse, NY age: 51	http://evolution.berkeley.edu/
10/4/2008 3:35:10 PM	Evolution: the fairy tale
skipaway Bartlett, IL age: 43	OK, I went to the site, Clicked around and read, And I realized something, I know all of this, I’ve been looking into This subject for over 18 years now, You need to point me towards something More tangible, something that shows One species evolving into another species? Ohwell, I’m giving Java man a call, see what he’s up to tonight,
10/4/2008 6:41:16 PM	Evolution: the fairy tale
ourself Hamilton, ON age: 36	Well at least you looked. There's no other viable explanation but you will go on believing what you want on less evidence. This learning thing only works if you adjust your beliefs to fit with the findings. When you do it the other way around you end up with I.D. Hey thanks Stringsvrs! [Edited 10/4/2008 6:43:44 PM]

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