is revelation on-going from God to man?

11/5/2007 3:29:40 PM	is revelation on-going from God to man?
kellytoo Moses Lake, WA age: 57	Yes,lol, I think we are close to finding middle ground too. Heck, we're all in this world together and communication can be confusing. I shall have to read the book you mentioned, not heard of it before. For anyone who is concerned about unnatural substances in the foods we buy at our grocery stores and how to shop wisely for health and the future of our planet, I recommend reading an older book by John Robbins. "Diet for a New America" Bright Blessings to you Lastrad, Kelly
11/5/2007 4:57:05 PM	is revelation on-going from God to man?
swcw25 Woonsocket, RI age: 48 online now!	Hey guys...good stuff you both posted! Thanks.Just wanted to tell you 2 that you can watch speeches that John Perkins has made in googlevideo.com,I just downloaded a couple for further info on corporatocracy,sounds interesting,thanks Last! .....peace
11/5/2007 6:13:06 PM	is revelation on-going from God to man?
lastradicaldude Lamar, CO age: 53	Queen, I suspect the reason you don't grasp what I am referring to is because you haven't read Conversations with God, by Neale Donald Walsh who claimed these new "on-going" revelations were from God. Fundamental parts of Walsch's writings are also mirrored within other well known spiritual writings and traditions: For instance, Souls reincarnate to eventually experience God-realization (Bhagavad-Gita/Hinduism). Feelings are more important as a source of guidance than intellect (Rousseau). We are not here to learn anything new but to remember what we already know (Plato). Physical reality is an illusion (Hinduism/Buddhism's concept of maya). God is everything. (Spinoza / Brahman) God is self-experiential, in that it is the nature of the Universe to experience itself. (Hegel, and process theology as first outlined by Alfred North Whitehead) God is not fear-inducing or vengeful, only our parental projections onto God are. Fear or love are the two basic alternative perspectives on life (Drewermann) Good and evil do not exist (as absolutes, but can exist in a different context and for different reasons as Nietzsche). Reality is a representation created by will. (Schopenhauer) Nobody knowingly desires evil. (Socrates) It's just a ride. (Bill Hicks) Now I am sure that you and I both might agree or disagree with some of these ideas. I have heard some of then expressed by others here on DHU recently. But the idea that Good and Evil do not exist is one circulating in many circles for some time now. Just because you have never heard of it doesn't lessen its prominence. So when conversing with newcomers to a thread such as Kelly, who by her expressions led me to correctly assume that she was familiar with Conversations, I believed it was necessary to address several nuances surrounding that idea, first in the hope that it might help her, and secondly someone else who is carefully reading this thread and might not be aware of the origin of these thoughts. I hope this answers your question. Lastrad
11/5/2007 10:10:46 PM	is revelation on-going from God to man?
queenofhearts61 Seymour, IN age: 61	You are right Lastrad, I have not and will not be reading Conversations with God. Because of past experiences with the writings of man, [Jehovah's Witnesses for example] I do not read what man has to say. I feel that if 'God' wants me to know somethings he/she/it knows how to get in touch with me. I have been led, very destructively, away into darkness by the writings of men and will have no more of it. My reasonable mind says there is a creator, but to think that h/s/i is controlling all of this disorder and destruction is not acceptable to my mind. So I have come to the conclusion that h/s/i has given life but is not interfering in it. No proof, nothing to go on but evidence and my being able to think without the influence of man for more than 22 years. I do not want to read these books where someone says they had this experience or god spoke to them because, If it does not speak to me then I have no reason to believe it speaks to anyone else either. Another thing I have reasoned out is that h/s/it does not favor persons. I think that is a Hebrew idea, the chosen people. I do like to read history, including the way money came into being and our modern banking system, and am in agreement on that. And that is what Jewelz is talking about too is the international bankers who run the Federal Reserve, which is not federal nor a reserve, and the IRS their private debt collector. Since there is no law saying that the American people have to pay income tax, this is a theft. As far a good and bad I have stated my opinion there. We know what is right or wrong I think the finer details is what we have to work on, most of us anyway. [Edited 11/5/2007 10:11:40 PM]
11/6/2007 5:55:57 AM	is revelation on-going from God to man?
lastradicaldude Lamar, CO age: 53	Queen, thank you for pointing out the things you did. Just as you were damaged by blindly following the teachings of men, and thankfully you came to realize it, millions of others are still caught in their religious illusions. These illusions are maintained most often by using psychological means to condition our minds so we will stop engaging in independent thought. Having personally observed both family members and hundreds of others trapped by the Jehova Witness doctrine, I am able to see by their experiences that they have given up on independent thought in exchange for accepting the herd mentality and the dogmas they are fed by their leadership. Sadly this lack of independent thinking is not confined just to JWs. We can observe this phenonomen existing in other religious contexts as well as in political thought. The measurement of the damage caused by this wilingness to blindly follow is impossible to compute, although to the independent observer the amount is recognized as mind boggling. You raise a serious concern here though. You state, because you have been led into darkness by men in the past by their writings that you "will have no more of it". You also state that, "I do not read what man has to say". On the surface this may appear proper to some as the means to avoid being led astray. But the inconsistent fact remains that you read what other men and women have to say here on DHU, and I suspect in other places too. The fact that you merely read someone elses observations gives them no power over you, util you choose to follow those observations. As we each independently attempt to discover Truth and Knowledge we often begin with our own independent observations of the solar system and this earthly planet(plane) that we exist in for the present. Often times our observations are enhanced by taking the time to examine the observations of others. Scientists for example, would be slow to discover anything if they depended entirely upon their own independent observations. But because they are willing to examine the observations of others, and consider how those observations might fit with theirs, they are able to proceed in their discoveries at a much faster rate. Should we ignore the observations of others, we will do so to our own detriment. At the same time however, should we blindly follow the observations of others we will also experience damage, as you have learned. So I encourage everyone on this earthly path of discovery to read and listen carefully to the observations of others. But don't make these observations your own unless they can pass the tests of Reason as well as your own personal observation of them.. And even then always be open to the possibility that your reasoning skill may be short-sighted. Therfore be willing to re-examine your beliefs at each and every moment of your life. This is something that the blind followers of some belief will sadly never do. You mentioned the idea of a "chosen people" being a "Hebrew idea". Actually consider that the idea itself very likely predated Hebrew history. More likely the idea is an "Ego idea". The Hebrews were just some of the first recorded instances of man capitalizing on this idea for purposes of justifying their actions and beliefs. This phenomenen exists today here in America. We see it expressed in both religious and political contexts. You also stated concerning your understanding of God, "My reasonable mind says there is a creator, but to think that h/s/i is controlling all of this disorder and destruction is not acceptable to my mind. So I have come to the conclusion that h/s/i has given life but is not interfering in it." I agree with your first statement concerning the unlikelyness of God the Creator, "controlling all of this disorder and destruction ". I too can not believe that God is behind the scenes orchestrating this mess for some greater good. Regarding your second statement, concerning the idea of the non-interference of God, I would offer you this observation to consider. It is an observation which is directly related to the question this Thread poses. Whether you know this or not, and I suspect you do, Queen, you are a searcher. You mistakenly involved yourself on the JW path in your search for the Truth. Could it be that amist all the religious drumbeats you were unable to hear Reason call to your soul for so many years? Could it be that when crisis came to your life that you were finally able to hear the voice of Reason and that ultimately through the events that then occured in your life you were guided out of the bondage you had placed yourself within? Could it be that this small, still Voice of Reason within you was there all the time? Could it be that this still small Voice of Reason is guiding you even today without you even being aware of that Guidance? Could it be that this Voice of Reason within your Conscience is revealing on-going revelation to you without you even realizing it at this stage? Could it be that the reason this Voice of Reason is revealing these things to you is to Interfere to some small degree in the outcome of your life, so you will ultimately be able to make the ultimate choice from a position of Reason and Knowing, rather than as you did in the past, from a position of blindly searching? Just some questions to consider. Hope this helps. Lastrad
11/6/2007 6:16:47 AM	is revelation on-going from God to man?
lastradicaldude Lamar, CO age: 53	Queen, one more thing with regard to your observation that God doesn't interfere in the affairs of the earth. This idea is historically and traditionally the Deist model of thought. As I have stated in the past, I consider myself a Deist of a sort, because that model comes the closest to characterizing and fitting with what I believe. However, when it comes to the issue of "non-interference" I disagree with the Deist model of thought. The reason being, I sense that God continually interferes with mankind by revealing right and wrong to us from His residence within our Divine Conscience. Hope this helps clarify. Lastrad
11/6/2007 9:43:41 AM	is revelation on-going from God to man?
swcw25 Woonsocket, RI age: 48 online now!	Lastrad,this is what I usually have a problem with I am able to see by their experiences that they have given up on independent thought in exchange for accepting the herd mentality and the dogmas they are fed by their leadership. Although the words are correct(to a sense)the way they are percieved by me is insulting.Im not saying you insulted me Im saying when people in general use this way to explain that point. I prefer to look at it as this..... I didnt give up independent thought when I chose to follow Catholisism.I accepted their "ways" because I believed that,that is what God wanted me to do.They did not feed me anything,they taught and preached what they believed God wanted them to.I may have in essence "blindly followed",but I choose to call it,accepting their Beliefs as Gods intentions,because it made sense to me at the time. What harm is there to innocent people who choose to follow a Religion or Spiritual organization,thats main intention is to bring them closer to God.The fact is most dont invest time or effort into really caring what or what not they are being taught or preached in our Churces,whether its true or false.But if they are getting spiritually connected to God and are better people because of these beliefs,what is the problem? I would never consider someone brainwashed because I can "see with different eyes"that things just dont add up with what they are being taught,its their belief and I respect that. I personally dont agree with all of Jehovah Witness teachings,but I so admire and respect their knocking on door try to bring people to God. They never try to "convert"anyone,their intentions are to find people who are spiritually empty and offer them an opportunity to invite God into their lives on a personal level.Most choose to call it...preying on the weak,ugh!LOL Anyhoots,thats my little "sermon" for today.LOL Like I said,its just my opinion on how I see things,and yes..."we all know"that,that itself is dangerous! LOL ha ha ha !!!LOL .....peace
11/6/2007 10:23:36 AM	is revelation on-going from God to man?
lastradicaldude Lamar, CO age: 53	Mary, before I address your questions in detail, I have a question for you. you stated, "I would never consider someone brainwashed because I can "see with different eyes"that things just dont add up with what they are being taught,its their belief and I respect that." Would you consider the members of Jim Jones' group or the Heavens Gate Cult brainwashed? Lastrad
11/6/2007 10:28:56 AM	is revelation on-going from God to man?
potentloveslave Dade City, FL age: 40	Revelation doesn't stop untill the end of time. Revelation is a continous loop of events that happen everyday in our lives. The book of Revelation is just that. It is a forewarning for us to prepare for the turmoils that are happening in the world everyday.
11/6/2007 10:49:35 AM	is revelation on-going from God to man?
swcw25 Woonsocket, RI age: 48 online now!	"Today"...I would say,yes.....any group,cult,Religion,organization that teaches one that they need to be "secluded" from the rest of the world,does not produce people trying to work harmoniously with others.You also have the "fear" factor...most of these people have isloated for so long that they are not aware or perhaps even have access to help and they are afraid(at a loss) at what to do to get out of the situation they are in.Once they leave,they take a chance at never being allowed to communicate with loved ones from that cult,religion ets... I may have left the Catholic Church,but I still hold ties with friends and family that are still practicing and am loved and accepted by all of them despite my decision to leave. .....peace
11/6/2007 12:01:45 PM	is revelation on-going from God to man?
lastradicaldude Lamar, CO age: 53	So you are able to see how certain cults on the far end of the spectrum utilize brainwashing and are able to often times destroy the lives of their members, by getting them to blindly follow. Well destruction in a measure also occurs with any of the other religions that are able to hold control over people's minds to the place that they will BELIEVE what they are told. You asked, "What harm is there to innocent people who choose to follow a Religion or Spiritual organization,thats main intention is to bring them closer to God.The fact is most dont invest time or effort into really caring what or what not they are being taught or preached in our Churces,whether its true or false. But if they are getting spiritually connected to God and are better people because of these beliefs,what is the problem? " Your premise that the main intention of these religions is to bring people closer to God is highly suspect when you consider the fact that for the most part they only produce legions of followers who BELIEVE what those at the top say to be true. Should a follower recieve any on-going revelation as to the religion's teachings and begin to seriously question the teachings by pointing out certain inconsistencies, they will quickly be told in a number of ways to Hit the road Jack, and don't come back. As to "what harm" is there "if people are getting spiritually connected to God and are better people because of these beliefs? First it need be pointed out that people can become better people by engaging in many different paths. Whether this alone is evidence that they have in fact aquired a "spiritual connection to God" needs to be looked at closely. Spiritual connections to God are much like connections to family. I have no connection to your family as I do not KNOW them. I may BELIEVE that they exist because you tell me they exist, but that BELIEF does not constitute a connection to them. And if I were to accept the grandeur delusion that my continued BELIEF in the existence of your family constituted a connection or relationship between me and them, then the harm of that deception has been accomplished. For it is at that moment that I will stop short of ever acquiring an actual relationship with them, and only God knows what is the ultimate measure of that loss. When we believe men and follow their teachings by BLIND FAITH, we cannot, and neither should not, have any expectation that their teachings will either enhance or bring about a TRUE spiritual connection with the God of whom they teach. KNOWING God is a personal matter, and that connection must be personally sought after and GAINED through a KNOWLEDGE of Him. The ultimate loss of not KNOWING God is immeasurable. Hope this helps, Lastrad
11/6/2007 1:36:08 PM	is revelation on-going from God to man?
swcw25 Woonsocket, RI age: 48 online now!	Yes people "can" engage in a better understanding of all aspects of their lives,but like I said,the fact is most dont.Whether it be lack of time,interest or perhaps not even wanting to know the truth,its not happening. As far as the family analogy...if I sent you photos,letters and even books they wrote,I think that would "connect"you on a more personal level,and we even have less tangible proof of God, yet we are very spiritually connected mostly based on what others have said. Believe me I do understand the importance of knowledge and that one can only stand to gain something beneficial from it.But my question is,is it better to not be affiliated with any religious or spiritual group,or is it good(OK)to have at least what some have to offer in relation to being connected to God? .....peace
11/6/2007 2:32:55 PM	is revelation on-going from God to man?
4evr6y Morgan, VT age: 65	Hi All i thought this was interesting... just to freshin' up a bit. "Revelation is evolutionary but always progressive. Down through the ages of a world's history,the revelations of religion are ever-expanding and sucessivly more enlightining.It is the mission of revelation to sort and censor the succesive religions of evolution.But if revelation is to exalt and upstep the religions of evolution,then must such divine visitations portray teachings which are not too far removed from the thought and reactions of the age in which they are presented.Thus must and does revelation always keep in touch with evolution.Always must the religion of revelation be limited by man's capasity of receptivity. But regardless of apparent connection or derivation,the religions of revelation are always charicturised by a beleif in some Diety of final value and in some concept of the survival of personality identity after death. Evolutionary religion is sentimental,not logical.It is man's reaction to beleif in a hypothitical ghost-spirit world--the humane beleif-reflex,excited by the realization and fear of the unknown.Revelatory religion is propounded by the real spiritual world;it is the responce of the superintelectual cosmos to the mortal hunger to beleive in,and depend upon,the universal Deities.Evolutionary religion pictures the circuitous gropings of humanity in quest of truth;revelatory religion is that very truth...." TUB paper 92 p1007#4 4evr
11/6/2007 2:34:40 PM	is revelation on-going from God to man?
queenofhearts61 Seymour, IN age: 61	Some have no concept at all of what brainwashing consists of. Those who are brainwashed are not aware of it. Jehovah's Witnesses not only pull you away from anyone that practices another religion but they also isolate you from family and friends. You are not being a good Witness if you associate with anyone other than a Witness. All others are false christians. And as for the going door to door, they definitely are trying to get you to leave your religion. They use guilt to make everyone feel it is an obligation to go door to door and you are not a good Witness if you do not. Most religions use guilt to control the masses. Nothing makes me feel worse about myself the going to church. The whole sermon is based on how we are not good enough and never can be. I so much disagree with this preaching as I think everyone is doing the best that they are able to do from what they know. I get really tired of being told I am not perfect. I think I am a perfect me. There is no one else that is a me so there is no one else to compare me to, so how can I not be a perfect me? Do I always behave or do exactly as I would like to, no, but I am still the only me there is and I think I am acceptable to 'God' just as I am. [Edited 11/6/2007 2:35:22 PM]
11/7/2007 5:05:27 AM	is revelation on-going from God to man?
kellytoo Moses Lake, WA age: 57	Wow, there is so much writing here that I cannot keep up, lol. Makes my head sorta swim, but all good stuff. I liked what the Little River Band once said in a song. There are so many paths up the mountain, but the view from the top is still the same. Hence, I believe what is right and true for me, is not necessarily the same for anyone else. As long as someone is not "intentionally" harming oneself or someone else, how can I condemn another's truth. If one is doing unintentional harm in ignorance, eventually they will learn by their harvest, reap and sow effect. See, Lastrad, I left out the judging word, learned that from you, thanks.

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