BELIEF SYSTEMS, PREJUDICE, HATRED and WAR... 16

3/10/2008 9:30:32 AM	BELIEF SYSTEMS, PREJUDICE, HATRED and WAR...
davewave1 Ann Arbor, MI age: 61	“I suppose I believed in all of them at one time, when I was a child.. but when I was a child I thought like a child and know that I am a man I think like a man.. none of the above had a historicle text written about them, nor did they claim to be God..” Good Fisherman Sir, a few questions: QUESTIONS: 1. Who told you there were an Easter Bunny, a Tooth Fairy, and a Santa Claus? 2. Did you ‘believe’ them? Trust them? Did they tell you the truth? 3. If they did not tell you the truth, did they lie? 4. If they did not tell you the truth, did they violate one of their ‘Gods’” commandments?, or one of your ‘Gods’ commandments? 5. Does your ‘God’ or their ‘God’ say that those who do not tell the truth are to be punished? 6. If the answer to Question 6 is “Yes”, what is the punishment? 7. If they did not tell you the truth about the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy, can you trust them to tell you the truth about any Thing? 8. If “Yes”, explain what rational thinking process allows you to continue to trust them? 9. Are these the same people that ‘told you’ there is a ‘god’? 10. Did they tell you that this ‘god’ detests those who lie? 11. No matter who tells you something, how do you determine for yourself, whether or not what is being said is true or false? 12. Did you tell your children there is a Santa Claus, or Easter Bunny, or a Tooth Fairy? 13. If so, did you tell your children the truth? 14. Exactly how many times do you allow another person to lie to you, after which you no longer trust them? 15. How did you prove and come to KNOW for yourself, that the Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus were fiction and not real? Or, didn’t you? 16. How did you prove and come to KNOW for yourself, that your ‘belief’ in a ‘god’, eternal life, etc, are true? Or, didn’t you? 17. By what process does one come to know a Thing to be true or false? Eight hundred faithful ‘believers’ “believed” and blindly trusted Jim Jones. He poisoned and murdered them all; innocent men, women and children. Sound like a passage or two from a good book?, i.e., “Slay them down to the last man, woman and child.” Thousands trusted and ‘believed’ Jimmy Swaggart and gave him millions. They ‘believed’ without proof! Later, the Truth came out. Mr. Swaggart proved to be a liar, thief and adulterer. Did Jimmy Swaggart tell the truth? Tens of thousands ‘believed in’ and trusted Jimmy Bakker and Tammy Faye. How did their belief and trust play out? Did Mr. Bakker and Tammy Faye tell the truth? TRUE or FALSE If one ‘believes’ any single thing without proving it to be so, the door is swung wide open to believing any Thing and every thing, and thus becoming a potential victim to every deception on the face of the Earth.
3/10/2008 9:06:58 PM	BELIEF SYSTEMS, PREJUDICE, HATRED and WAR...
fisherman383 Aberdeen, WA age: 45	Dave, can we get off the tooth fairy and easter bunny, santa claus..Those are traditions of men and the Bible clearly states to steer clear of traditions of men.. All of those men you have spoken of, who claim to be Godly would have fooled no one who read the bible and judged according to Gods word, I am baseing my belief in christ, not according to what I am told but by his word "the bible" .. Is it a sin to lie? yes all the ten commandments are sins. Romans 7:6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.7:What shall we say then? is the law sin?Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law.For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said. "you shall not covet."but sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, poduced in me all manner of evil desire. for apart from the law sin was dead. Me; God gave us the law as a tutor..The bible says I am no longer under the law, that law has done its work in me.. The law lead me to Christ [Edited 3/10/2008 9:08:39 PM]
3/10/2008 9:50:49 PM	BELIEF SYSTEMS, PREJUDICE, HATRED and WAR...
fisherman383 Aberdeen, WA age: 45	Akash, You are rite about eternity. Einstein tought us that time is just a physical property created for you and I.. Akash would you go to a deserted island, get off the boat, look down and see a computer and think it got there by chance? or evalution? So you being much more complex than anything of mans design, why would you think less of yourself or others.. Lets say you took me to your house to look at your computer, could I tell you anything about that computer? just that witch I could see, and you are the same, the real you is not the body, the real you is the spirit and soul witch I know nothing about.. back to Einstein and time. Einstein said that time is a physical property and can be changed by gravity weight and mass. The software in a computer has no weight or mass, nor does the real you, the conclusion is that you are an eternal being, outside of the restraints of time.. Akash, you say you believe in yourself, I will leave that one alone..
3/10/2008 10:23:44 PM	BELIEF SYSTEMS, PREJUDICE, HATRED and WAR...
sekhmetvotaress Hemet, CA age: 33	Fisherman, in case it missed your attention this is the OTHER religions forum. Perhaps you are lost. Those of us who are here, however, are NOT lost. We are here - for the most part - because we have made a conscious decision to eschew Biblical teachings. For many of us the Bible is a lovely myth. For others, it is a tool of hatred. Believe it or not, but many of us here have more than a layman's grasp of the Bible. I, myself, have studied it for over 20 years, some of that time under the tutelage of a Church elder. So, though it may seem that, perhaps, we simply have never received the Word, trust me - we have. There is group for Christians. I think your viewpoints would be more welcome there.
3/20/2008 6:35:14 AM	BELIEF SYSTEMS, PREJUDICE, HATRED and WAR...
davewave1 Ann Arbor, MI age: 61	In America, citizens have the right to believe in any Thing they wish, so long as the exercise of that belief does not involve criminal activity. In fierce defense of this right of all citizens to believe any Thing, I served for six years with honor as an Officer in the United States Military. A citizen may believe in Leprechauns, ghosts, life after death, the Easter Bunny, Magic, one deity, multiple deities, a million angels dancing on the point of a needle, the Earth being flat, multiple dimensions of Life and the Universe, etc. And they have the right to believe these things, whether or not they are actually true. I myself at one time, believed…….. However, an inseparable component of ‘believing’ involves the extension of blind trust. In a time of younger years when I was ‘believing’ and so trusting, my ‘believing’ and trusting was deliberately and willfully violated. This event was so personally devastating to me that I nearly took my life at my own hand. For this deeply personal reason, I can never again blindly trust or ‘believe’ any one or any Thing. I have become one who must know. It is my wish that these facts provide the reader of this post reasons to understand my purely rational, personal position not to believe in any one or any Thing without proof.
3/21/2008 5:21:01 AM	BELIEF SYSTEMS, PREJUDICE, HATRED and WAR...
fisherman383 Aberdeen, WA age: 45	Hellow Dave. My name is Eric by the the way. There will be a couple on here not so happy to hear from me, but that is ok with me. I for one do not mind a good conversation with different points of view.. After all your post did welcome all view points. How do I know there was a painter? by looking at the painting.. How do I know there was a creator? By looking at his creation.. I would say that is alot of proof. Have a good day Dave and look forward to your next post.. Eric
3/21/2008 4:39:24 PM	BELIEF SYSTEMS, PREJUDICE, HATRED and WAR...
akashaman Brunswick, OH age: 29	The irony of your not wanting to touch the subject of my trusting myself, is even by your faith, it is very clear. God helps those who help themselves. Is this not inherent to the whole concept of what I had stated. I, like Dave, believe in helping anyone who asks. The only stipulation, however, is that they do something with the help that is offered. I call to mind the story of Jesus and the fig tree. It has always overwhelmed me that people who are religious are always intimidated, or afraid of, or have mocked my confidence. Isn't the whole point of life to encourage others to be better people. If you agree with that last statement then being of service is always being right. For respect is more influential than fear.
3/22/2008 5:00:52 PM	BELIEF SYSTEMS, PREJUDICE, HATRED and WAR...
stormbay Tasmania Australia age: 62	G'day Eric, I was born into a family of officers of the church and was an ordained priest. What changed my was my curiosity for real truth and not just programmed indoctrination as Dave points out. I studied the anthropological history of monotheism from within the church and have never found one piece of evidence to support the existence of a god and most definitely not a caring loving god. Even the books of the OT, NT and koran are filled with war vengeance and destruction and all the historical evidence has shown nothing different has occurrence since, it's just got worse. I set my trust and eternity upon the viewable future and my ability to create my own it in the best way I can, with the least effect upon other living life forms which I encounter on the way. It's reality which gives me truth and I can never see a belief system which accepts condones and promotes the slaughter of life in all it's guises for power, greed or gluttony, all in the name of a mythical delusion. I see people who eat meat and animal products which has been enslaved, tortured and murdered when humans are more then capable of living with no meat or dairies and are healthier for it, as being total hypocrites and false if they believe in love and caring. As to my beliefs, the closest would be towards dimensional evolution, which is viewable all around us and is a natural occurrence throughout the universe BELIEF SYSTEMS, PREJUDICE, HATRED and WAR... These are all associated with a god and can also be viewed worldwide throughout history. In this age you can see it in every country constantly displayed by all gods followers, as they desperately try to put some meaning into nothing but debauched practises by gods followers and all who belief in spirit's, deities or past understandings. The only thing on the planet which doesn't evolve is the minds of humans, and we see the outcomes of that in “belief systems, prejudice, hatred and war”. All fully associated and viewable aspects of a god of war. [Edited 3/22/2008 5:09:08 PM]
3/24/2008 1:01:22 AM	BELIEF SYSTEMS, PREJUDICE, HATRED and WAR...
fisherman383 Aberdeen, WA age: 45	Jeremiah 33:22 (written 2500 years ago) "As the stars cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured." The Bible claimed that there are billions of stars when it made this statement, no one knew how vast the number of stars were as only about 1,100 were observable. Now we know that there are billions of stars, and that they cannot be numbered. Job 26:7 (written 3500 years ago) "He stretches out the north over the empty place, and hangs the earth upon nothing." The Bible claimed that the earth freely floated in space. Science then thought that it sat on a large animal. We now know that the earth has a free float in space. (The first scientist having this understanding would appear to be Copernicus around 1500. Hebrews 11:3 (Written 2000 years ago) "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible." The bible claims that all creation is made of invisible material. Science then was ignorant of the subject. We now know that the entire creation is made of invisible elements called "atoms" Job 38:19 (Written 3500 years ago) "Where is the way where light dwells?" Modern man has only just discovered that light (electromagnetic radiation) has a "way," involving motion traveling at 186,000 miles per second. Job 38:16 (Written 3500 years ago) "Have you entered the springs of the sea?" We now know there are springs under the sea. [Edited 3/24/2008 1:59:46 AM]
3/24/2008 1:41:42 AM	BELIEF SYSTEMS, PREJUDICE, HATRED and WAR...
fisherman383 Aberdeen, WA age: 45	Ecclesiastes 1:6 The wind goes toward the south, And turns to the north; The wind whirls about continually, And comes again on its circuit. We now know that the winds do have a circuit. Job 28:25 (3500 years ago)"To establish a weight for the wind, And apportion the waters by measure." The fact that air has weight was proven scientifically about 300 years ago. Genesis 17:12 "And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed." Why was circumsision to be carried out on the eighth day? Medical science has discovered that the eighth day is the only day in the entire life of the newborn that the blood clotting element prothrombin is above 100%. Job 26:7(written 3500 years ago) "He stretches out the north over the empty place.." Less than 200 years ago, through the advent of massive telescopes, science learned abourt the great empty space in the north.
3/24/2008 2:58:54 AM	BELIEF SYSTEMS, PREJUDICE, HATRED and WAR...
fisherman383 Aberdeen, WA age: 45	Storm, could you give me one example of dimensional evolution? I would like for everyone to know that I am not relgious, like I stated earlier " religion is man trying to reach or earn gods love." I believe God showing his person through Jesus Christ did it for me, on a cross 2000 years ago.. I am not telling anyone what to believe, just telling you why I believe what I believe.. Many of you would claim there is many ways to God. I believe the bible, that there is one way "No one comes to the Father but by me" Here is a picture to ponder; You are in a boat in the middle of the ocean and the boat springs a leak, it is inevitable that the boat is going to sink. As far as the eye can see is water, not to mention sharks. In the distance a ship is drawing near, as he approaches he throws you a line, a sure way out, but to the captains dismay he refuses because the roap wasnt to his liking. I for one am taking the rope that God has offered. The Bible tells me to be humble and meek before men. If I have been anything other please forgive me..I do not believe the Bible because it is the Bible, I believe the Bible because of all the hard work and labor put in to searching out all the truths therein. It has been attacked and scutinized as long as it has been, and yet it still stands. No other book in the world is like unto it or ever will be.. [Edited 3/24/2008 3:58:24 AM]
3/24/2008 4:28:07 AM	BELIEF SYSTEMS, PREJUDICE, HATRED and WAR...
fisherman383 Aberdeen, WA age: 45	Hellow Storm. I would say we think quite differently. This is your statement "and most definitely not a caring loving God." I wake up every day and have a hot cup of coffee and on some days watch the sun come up as its light kisses every thing it touches. I have a home and clothes that protect me from the elements, all made from material that God has placed on this earth. the smells and sights all around me. I look around and see colors and shapes. One of my favorite foods is Pizza, did evalution give me taste buds,? I would say no! But a loving and caring God gave me all these sences, to partake in his creation and to expierence his love for me. And I could greatly ad to that list. God loves me this I now...
3/24/2008 4:43:41 AM	BELIEF SYSTEMS, PREJUDICE, HATRED and WAR...
fisherman383 Aberdeen, WA age: 45	Dave.. By the way, thank you for your service in the military, as you know freedom does not come free, and it is the brave men like you and others that we have the freedom to practice and discuss are beliefs. It is goverments that lead us into war not churches.
3/24/2008 6:52:57 AM	BELIEF SYSTEMS, PREJUDICE, HATRED and WAR...
kellytoo Moses Lake, WA age: 58	You opened the box on this one, freedom isn't free. What is freedom? I think it depends upon the eye of the beholder. To me, freedom is an inside job, independence of thought. Independence of thought is vital for our creativity and individuality. Freedom is not attained through violence, wars, but only in the eye of the beholder, which is the victor of the war of course.
3/24/2008 11:00:49 AM	BELIEF SYSTEMS, PREJUDICE, HATRED and WAR...
deathmetalman77 Crescent City, CA age: 34	fishyman posted: One of my favorite foods is Pizza, did evalution give me taste buds,? I would say no! Well good for you!!! I can't have ANY dairy products at all!!!! Did "God" suddenly curse me with not being able to eat milk products??? Or was it acts of evolution??? Oh yeah, it is spelled "evolution", there is no "A" in the word. (Proof of evolution, I'm a better speller than you!!!) By the way...Do you happen to have obsessive~compulsive disorders???? Just curious because you posted 5 times in a row and on another thread, you repeatedly asked simple questions... Don't worry it is common for christians to have mental health issues!!! The first step is admitting that you have an addiction to fantasy... Hang out here long enough, we will straighten you right out!!!!

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