Why does the Federal Government own so much Land?

5/13/2014 9:21:05 AM	Why does the Federal Government own so much Land?
deneez Rochester, MI 56, joined Apr. 2012	A 2008 article by Frank Jacobs, 2008? Might be more than the stat's he reports by now, but it was unbiased: The United States government has direct ownership of almost 650 million acres of land (2.63 million square kilometers) – nearly 30% of its total territory. These federal lands are used as military bases or testing grounds, nature parks and reserves and Indian reservations, or are leased to the private sector for commercial exploitation (e.g. forestry, mining, agriculture). They are managed by different administrations, such as the Bureau of Land Management, the US Forest Service, the US Fish and Wildlife Service, the National Park Service, the Bureau of Indian Affairs, the US Department of Defense, the US Army Corps of Engineers, the US Bureau of Reclamation or the Tennessee Valley Authority. Nevada 84.5% Alaska 69.1% Utah 57.4% Oregon 53.1% Idaho 50.2% Arizona 48.1% California 45.3% Wyoming 42.3% New Mexico 41.8% Colorado 36.6% Notable is that all these states are in the West (except Alaska, which strictly speaking is also a western state, albeit northwestern). Also notable is the contrast between the highest and the lowest percentages of federal land ownership. The US government owns a whopping 84.5% of Nevada, but only a puny 0.4% of Rhode Island and Connecticut. The lowest-percentage states are mainly in the East, but some are also in the Midwest and in the South: Connecticut 0.4% Rhode Island 0.4% Iowa 0.8% New York 0.8% Maine 1.1% Kansas 1.2% Nebraska 1.4% Alabama 1.6% Ohio 1.7% Illinois 1.8% Even the 10th place is still below the two percent mark. One territory is not specified on the map: Washington D.C. It could be argued that this is the only main administrative division of US territory to be fully owned by the federal government. It could, but that would be wrong – and upsetting to those private citizens who own part of the nation’s capital in the form of their real estate. It would be more correct to state that the District of Columbia by default falls under the direct tutelage of the Federal Government.......end One commenter noted to his article Marcel • 2 years ago All currently federal lands should be returned to the states they respectively belong to. The federal gov't should be paying rent for the bases and each state should be operating the parks within its boundaries. I agree with him. Any comments? Meet singles at DateHookup.dating, we're 100% free! Join now!
5/13/2014 12:27:42 PM	Why does the Federal Government own so much Land?
deneez Rochester, MI 56, joined Apr. 2012	OK, no takers I can live with that. I am keeping my democrat father alive and lively though, being he worked for the government and we have had this debate for over a week now. He looks forward to it, and it has bolstered his frailty and fatigue, he is energized thinking he can not 'go' leaving this world knowing his daughter has turned into a Republican. not. both dems and repubs are egotistical hedonists that cannot agree on $$$$$$. Period. He says it belongs to them being they bought it, maintain it, and preserve it from the wealthiest and their purchasing power. But do they maintain it and preserve it the best? In turn we pay taxes on it. This is destroying my argument that local control is best, State control. Help. I'm loosing. anybody?
5/13/2014 1:53:04 PM	Why does the Federal Government own so much Land?
seemore1 Taylor, MI 53, joined Aug. 2011	It is mostly because they bought it. I am a conservtive leaning person and I do not have a problem with the goverment owning the land. People seem to forget that federal land belongs to all of us. I do have a problem with miss managment of the land.
5/13/2014 8:24:59 PM	Why does the Federal Government own so much Land?
deneez Rochester, MI 56, joined Apr. 2012	Thank you seemore1...you and he would agree! (re: argument with my father) and thanx for a response! He is essentially tired, tired of listening to me whine that the government is too big. To my amazement (and learning) the government grew large under Regan and even larger under Bush. Also to my amazement he did not vote democratic last election, he voted third party and swears we should never be convinced it 'wont' count. He's retired coast guard, but his day job was an attorney (appeals judge for gov.), should have known better...he just handed my dupa to me on a silver platter...like he's given me everything else in life. He's tired and I lost. I think I was wrong. BTW, when did the Independent forum die?
5/14/2014 10:37:17 PM	Why does the Federal Government own so much Land?
keepslowprofile Moose Lake, MN 96, joined Nov. 2011	I don't see Minnesota on the list. There is a lot of swamp land that is managed by the DNR. Anyone can buy a wood permit to cut firewood for winter heat. Last time I did it, It cost me $18.00 per cord. (the cost varies by county) This last winter, I paid $200.00 per cord from a private party. So as you can see, If you want to do the labor you can really save on winter heat costs. If the federal Gov didn't own land and let people cut fire wood then a lot of people would freeze to death or starve because they had to spend their food money on heat. If all the land was privately owned, We would still have parks and lakes but the cost to enjoy them would be astronomical. I'll tell you what I have a problem with; People like Cliven Bundy grazing cattle on Gov land and not paying his dues. His cattle are for profit, He is the ultimate welfare queen. Owing over a million dollars in past due fees.
5/15/2014 6:06:58 AM	Why does the Federal Government own so much Land?
deneez Rochester, MI 56, joined Apr. 2012	You make a good point about the use of our public lands, wouldn't want to loose privilege especially where necessity is concerned, or loose access to our parks. Re: Clive, he was the wrong poster child for government over reach. He looses because of his own state constitution. But it does cause someone to look at the game here regarding land rights. What happened in the well known case of the Dann sisters was a disgrace. Essentially, an individual can loose everything due to encroachment. God forbid there be valuable minerals on your land. Theirs was a story of some real between the lines injustice if you look at things with a head connected to your heart. But, we know that's not feasible. The law's were set up by the very entity they fought against, money took a grand stand, and it's been all about the value of land from our nations beginnings. thanks for your post, it is truthful. Awesome looking horse, a horse lover, thumbs up!
5/15/2014 7:59:59 AM	Why does the Federal Government own so much Land?
keepslowprofile Moose Lake, MN 96, joined Nov. 2011	Wow, I wasn't familiar with the Dann sisters, I am now reading all I can find. How disgusting. With or with out my emotions, I believe they had the right to graze that land and the BLM had no right to gather and auction their cattle or horses. greedy brasstards I just read the article on Mary Danns' death. 80 yrs old, Riding her 4 wheeler fixing fence. "Patricia Paul said her aunt ``died as she would have wanted - with her boots on and hay in her pocket." I hope to be that lucky!
5/16/2014 8:21:35 AM	Why does the Federal Government own so much Land?
deneez Rochester, MI 56, joined Apr. 2012	For anyone interested the plot does thicken, at least insomuch as interesting. In January, I has made a post on one of the threads in here about a gold mining company, Barrick Gold Corporation, headquartered in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, and it's practice of purchasing land for gold prospect within the U.S. (It has it's hand in other countries as well). Regarding the Dann sisters I found this little article written by 'wwwfrontlinedefenders.org'.....excerpt: Recently the US Government has discovered vast deposits of gold, phosphates, and geothermal energy under this land and is exploring the extent of available oil. Federal authorities want to develop these resources; the state of Nevada wants the jobs and economic stimulus such development would create. The Federal Government plans to devote the geothermal energy to power mining operations, especially the extraction of gold. The traditional land of the Shoshone contains two-thirds of the gold produced in the US; it is the third richest gold field in the world. The principal extractor, Cortez Mining Corporation, estimates that over one billion dollars in gold can be extracted from the same land where the Dann’s horses graze. Cortez Mining’s logo, the famous helmeted profile of the conquistador, can be found on t-shirts, caps and pins throughout the area. Contracts for developing Western Shoshone land have been given to some of the same corporations now engaged in reconstructing Iraq after the US-lead invasion. Bechtel manages nuclear dumping and testing sites. Halliburton extracts barite. The Barrick Corporation, which includes members of President Bush’s family on its Board of Directors, operates gold mines. If a native cultural or burial site lies in the way of mining, it will be destroyed. Although Western Shoshone culture and spirituality reside in these sites, Federal agencies are not required to consult with Native Americans before disrupting them. For example, Mount Tenabo, sacred to the Shoshone and the site of burial grounds and cleansing caves, is threatened by the encroachment of gold mines. Cortez Mining operates a huge facility at the base of the mountain that tears tens of thousands of tons of rock away to produce one ounce of gold. The gold is separated from the rock by a process using cyanide, poisoning the land and surface water. Millions of gallons of water must be pumped from below the water table to the surface. Over time, this water settles back underground, polluted by surface alkaline and chemicals. Besides the violation of their sacred sites, the Danns and other traditional Western Shoshone fear for the poisoning of the land, water and livestock - See more at: http://www.frontlinedefenders.org/node/483#sthash.37mpx7N2.dpuf BIG money. It is over now, and they never did stand a chance.
5/29/2014 10:49:06 AM	Why does the Federal Government own so much Land?
pdforone Litchfield, OH 64, joined Jul. 2010	Quote from seemore1: It is mostly because they bought it. I am a conservtive leaning person and I do not have a problem with the goverment owning the land. People seem to forget that federal land belongs to all of us. I do have a problem with miss managment of the land. This, do you sell off the land that the American taxpayers paid for and have them excluded from it? Maybe we can start with places that have great weather and views? Shouldn't America be for all Americans, and not just for those wealthy enough to buy the best parts of it? I am sure you could always find politicians out there willing to sell off public lands to their cronies and families at a bargain price? If the government sold off millions of acres of public land to private citizens? Wouldn't they still expect big government to fight forest fires and flooding and such on " their " land?
5/30/2014 10:10:47 AM	Why does the Federal Government own so much Land?
deneez Rochester, MI 56, joined Apr. 2012	Quote from pdforone: This, do you sell off the land that the American taxpayers paid for and have them excluded from it? Maybe we can start with places that have great weather and views? Shouldn't America be for all Americans, and not just for those wealthy enough to buy the best parts of it? I am sure you could always find politicians out there willing to sell off public lands to their cronies and families at a bargain price? If the government sold off millions of acres of public land to private citizens? Wouldn't they still expect big government to fight forest fires and flooding and such on " their " land? Point well taken.
5/30/2014 11:25:52 AM	Why does the Federal Government own so much Land?
pdforone Litchfield, OH 64, joined Jul. 2010	Keeps also brought up a good point. " I'll tell you what I have a problem with; People like Cliven Bundy grazing cattle on Gov land and not paying his dues. His cattle are for profit, He is the ultimate welfare queen. Owing over a million dollars in past due fees. " There are tens of thousands of people that lease public land, and pay their leases, but you get one guy and his looney followers that doesn't like the system? Haven't people tried that with income taxes and just about everything else? Maybe we should privatize everything? so only the rich and well connected could get richer? It's only welfare if you aren't getting a piece of the pie? or can't profit from it?
5/31/2014 7:24:55 AM	Why does the Federal Government own so much Land?
deneez Rochester, MI 56, joined Apr. 2012	I understand and respect your points. But there is nothing inherently wrong with private property and private ownership. It is a good thing. To own something, anything, instills in persons a greater respect and care. It is also independence. I see no respect in the destruction of property on the endless search for minerals and profit on public land.
5/31/2014 7:24:41 PM	Why does the Federal Government own so much Land?
ok72076 Jacksonville, AR 54, joined Jan. 2008	Quote from pdforone: Keeps also brought up a good point. " I'll tell you what I have a problem with; People like Cliven Bundy grazing cattle on Gov land and not paying his dues. His cattle are for profit, He is the ultimate welfare queen. Owing over a million dollars in past due fees. " There are tens of thousands of people that lease public land, and pay their leases, but you get one guy and his looney followers that doesn't like the system? Haven't people tried that with income taxes and just about everything else? Maybe we should privatize everything? so only the rich and well connected could get richer? It's only welfare if you aren't getting a piece of the pie? or can't profit from it? I was going to say the same thing about the rich and their lackeys owning and controlling too much as it is. ... It's undemocratic! They think they are the new Kings and Crown princes of America. Public lands allow at least the common people with the gas money to get their to enjoy something that they won't on their own. In Arkansas, it's the Buffalo River, which is America's first national park and river, plus Hot Springs National Forrest and the springs.
6/17/2014 8:07:57 PM	Why does the Federal Government own so much Land?
legaleye Columbus, OH 64, joined Mar. 2008	I think you have to look at the history of each state to get the specifics, but for the most part when the United States government acquired territory outside the original 13 colonies, there were no states. In states like Ohio, the United States government paid soldiers for their service in the revolutionary war with land, anywhere from around 150 to 1000 acres depending on rank in the Army. So a lot of land in Ohio is called Virginia Military Lands if you go back to the old records because George Washington gave it out to veterans from Virginia. Not only did this pay people without the United States having to spend actual money, but it helped with westward movement of population into the new territories and of course created a whole real estate and land speculation business. There has been a debate going back to the sheep v. cattle wars in the 19th century as to who has superior rights to the land, the minerals and in the west, more importantly, the water. But the feds were there first for the most part.
6/22/2014 2:34:14 PM	Why does the Federal Government own so much Land?
cowboy4672 Lillian, AL 68, joined Dec. 2012	Kaibab National forest. Land held in trust by the Government so you may "Recreate for free." Land you may camp for free for 14 days. Why do we own so many Natural wonders?? So you and your Grandchildren may enjoy the Real world, not the Plastic "******/world!"
7/8/2014 2:59:02 PM	Why does the Federal Government own so much Land?
chillindillan Chilliwack, BC 44, joined Aug. 2013	Quote from deneez: A 2008 article by Frank Jacobs, 2008? Might be more than the stat's he reports by now, but it was unbiased: The United States government has direct ownership of almost 650 million acres of land (2.63 million square kilometers) – nearly 30% of its total territory. These federal lands are used as military bases or testing grounds, nature parks and reserves and Indian reservations, or are leased to the private sector for commercial exploitation (e.g. forestry, mining, agriculture). They are managed by different administrations, such as the Bureau of Land Management, the US Forest Service, the US Fish and Wildlife Service, the National Park Service, the Bureau of Indian Affairs, the US Department of Defense, the US Army Corps of Engineers, the US Bureau of Reclamation or the Tennessee Valley Authority. Nevada 84.5% Alaska 69.1% Utah 57.4% Oregon 53.1% Idaho 50.2% Arizona 48.1% California 45.3% Wyoming 42.3% New Mexico 41.8% Colorado 36.6% Notable is that all these states are in the West (except Alaska, which strictly speaking is also a western state, albeit northwestern). Also notable is the contrast between the highest and the lowest percentages of federal land ownership. The US government owns a whopping 84.5% of Nevada, but only a puny 0.4% of Rhode Island and Connecticut. The lowest-percentage states are mainly in the East, but some are also in the Midwest and in the South: Connecticut 0.4% Rhode Island 0.4% Iowa 0.8% New York 0.8% Maine 1.1% Kansas 1.2% Nebraska 1.4% Alabama 1.6% Ohio 1.7% Illinois 1.8% Even the 10th place is still below the two percent mark. One territory is not specified on the map: Washington D.C. It could be argued that this is the only main administrative division of US territory to be fully owned by the federal government. It could, but that would be wrong – and upsetting to those private citizens who own part of the nation’s capital in the form of their real estate. It would be more correct to state that the District of Columbia by default falls under the direct tutelage of the Federal Government.......end One commenter noted to his article Marcel • 2 years ago All currently federal lands should be returned to the states they respectively belong to. The federal gov't should be paying rent for the bases and each state should be operating the parks within its boundaries. I agree with him. Any comments? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It keeps the real debt from the property bubble from bursting & gives the feds leverage of property since the golds been stolen & the monopoly money based on oil is put defeciated to zero! the dollar still has a few ways left??? Wheres Florida in their scheme of implosion?Cuba or Mexico or Russia or Israel?
7/18/2014 1:18:23 PM	Why does the Federal Government own so much Land?
jediknight2003 New Caney, TX 31, joined Jan. 2013	What gets me is... We are slaves to the government by design. They claimed this continent under the guise of divine right and manifest destiny, they didn't pay anything for it, but we work ourselves to death for what little we have. Corporations take what they want, and do as they please, while we live under a watchful eye that feeds off of our blood, sweat, and tears.
7/19/2014 12:14:01 AM	Why does the Federal Government own so much Land?
cowboy4672 Lillian, AL 68, joined Dec. 2012	Meadows on the way to Sublime point. Grand canyon north rim
7/19/2014 7:31:34 PM	Why does the Federal Government own so much Land?
sorpstar Wayne, NJ 62, joined Oct. 2009	I believe the catholic church owns much land just drive to any city any size there is real estate finding both catholic schools and churches ...some close from recent economy but the lots and blocks they own is eye opening..
8/8/2014 7:05:10 PM	Why does the Federal Government own so much Land?
cupocheer Assumption, IL 67, joined May. 2010	Can someone define for me what a Moderate is when it comes to politicson this site? Thank you.
9/3/2014 9:25:39 AM	Why does the Federal Government own so much Land?
cowboy4672 Lillian, AL 68, joined Dec. 2012	Home on the range!!
9/11/2014 5:52:42 PM	Why does the Federal Government own so much Land?
cowboy4672 Lillian, AL 68, joined Dec. 2012	So you can see the live version instead of a plastic cartoon copy!!!
10/23/2014 5:10:33 PM	Why does the Federal Government own so much Land?
cupocheer Assumption, IL 67, joined May. 2010	preservation

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