Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath

8/21/2014 10:45:13 PM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
deneez Rochester, MI 56, joined Apr. 2012	Is there any evidence to counter this? Sabbath worship consisted of Temple attendance. Jesus attended the synagogue to teach, and later St. Paul. It is apparent St. Paul was not there to worship. He was preaching salvation to the Jews that would listen. Acts 13:5 When they arrived at Salamis, they proclaimed the word of God in the Jewish synagogues. John was with them as their helper. Acts 9:20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God. Other than the Didache (70) ad (instruction on Worship on the Lord's day) I located an early writing from Justin Martyr entitled the First Apology of Justin Martyr. This writing is dated to between 155-157 CE, and was made in response to the Martyrdom of Polycarp, and had its focus on the punishment of Christians by fire. But, within this writing there is specific mention of the Worship of Christians on Sunday. Speaking of the martyr Polycarp, (death by stabbing after the fire did not touch him) he was a disciple of St. John who had ordained him bishop of Smyrna. Nevertheless, if anyone would care to post Early Christian worship of the Sabbath, and Early Christian worship in the Synagogues, I would love to know how that turned out. Meet singles at DateHookup.dating, we're 100% free! Join now!
8/21/2014 11:02:00 PM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
deneez Rochester, MI 56, joined Apr. 2012	Excuse me, my bad, I did find one earlier. Ignatius of Antioch "[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e. Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death" (Letter to the Magnesians 8 [A.D. 110]). Ignatius of Antioch was a student of John the Apostle, and was the third bishop of Antioch. En route to Rome, where according to Christian tradition he met his martyrdom by being fed to wild beasts.
8/21/2014 11:16:19 PM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
josiemae Fayetteville, NC 59, joined Jan. 2008	(this post has been flagged as inappropriate, sorry.)
8/21/2014 11:21:53 PM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
josiemae Fayetteville, NC 59, joined Jan. 2008	Deneez, Isn't it true that the Jews worshipped on the Sabbath in the synagogue? Was there any other church bedside the synagogue? Is it also true that there are Jews and Gentiles? The Jews know that they are the chosen and we as Gentiles have to be grafted in. The Jews kept the Sabbath, Jesus Christ was a Jew, therefore He kept the Sabbath with other Jews. The Christian Church came after the death of Christ. What is the Christian Church? It is the foundation of those who follow in the footsteps of Jesus Christ. Since Jesus kept the Sabbath, we must emulate His character by keeping the Sabbath like Him.
8/22/2014 7:56:30 AM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
visitingfriends Evansville, WI 76, joined Jan. 2011	Quote from josiemae: Deneez, Isn't it true that the Jews worshipped on the Sabbath in the synagogue? Was there any other church bedside the synagogue? Is it also true that there are Jews and Gentiles? The Jews know that they are the chosen and we as Gentiles have to be grafted in. The Jews kept the Sabbath, Jesus Christ was a Jew, therefore He kept the Sabbath with other Jews. The Christian Church came after the death of Christ. What is the Christian Church? It is the foundation of those who follow in the footsteps of Jesus Christ. Since Jesus kept the Sabbath, we must emulate His character by keeping the Sabbath like Him. Of course Jesus kept the Sabbath, it was after His death and resurrection that the Christian started keeping the Lords day, the first day of the week. After the resurrection on Sunday every major Christian event happened on the first day of the week after that. Starting with the resurrection, then Jesus appearing to His followers in the upper room, both times on the first day of the week, and Pentecost also occurred on the first day of the week. We see Christians meeting on the first day of the week to break bread which is a worship service instituted by Jesus.
8/22/2014 8:10:13 AM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
deneez Rochester, MI 56, joined Apr. 2012	After the death and resurrection of Our Lord the Early Church (who were Hebrew) never worshipped in the Temple or 'held Sabbath' again. St. Paul and the Apostles went to the Temple for evangelization purposes only. Acts 14: In Iconium they entered the synagogue of the Jews together, and spoke in such a manner that a large number of people believed, both of Jews and of Greeks. 2 But the Jews who disbelieved stirred up the minds of the Gentiles and embittered them against the brethren.… also, Then some Jews came from Antioch and Iconium and won the crowd over. They stoned Paul and dragged him outside the city, thinking he was dead. (Acts 14:19) A pastor could enter an assembly on a Monday to evangelize, it doesn't mean they are 'holding Monday'.....same with the Apostles. They could no longer honor the Old Creation when the merits of Christ brought about a New Creation. So the assemblies were now held on The Lord's Day as seen in the passages about meeting on the first day of the week to Break Bread, tithe, and lecture (homily). Thus, the Tradition set by the Apostles would be the Tradition the Early Church would follow. History would attest to it, Christians grafted in would follow their guidance! Speaking of that, I have asked for historical reference to Early Church Worship on the Sabbath and/or Worship in Temple....any....any at all....I would like to see the earliest date, if possible. Translation: I am looking for evidence the Sabbath was changed. For it to have been changed there surely would be evidence that the initial worship of the Early Church was on the Sabbath. THAT would have been news as well as historical! Thanx again!
8/22/2014 8:22:16 AM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
deneez Rochester, MI 56, joined Apr. 2012	Quote from visitingfriends: Of course Jesus kept the Sabbath, it was after His death and resurrection that the Christian started keeping the Lords day, the first day of the week. After the resurrection on Sunday every major Christian event happened on the first day of the week after that. Starting with the resurrection, then Jesus appearing to His followers in the upper room, both times on the first day of the week, and Pentecost also occurred on the first day of the week. We see Christians meeting on the first day of the week to break bread which is a worship service instituted by Jesus. Of course!!! And I'm not saying this simply because you're Catholic, I'm saying it because it is true and seen in Scripture which seems to be ignored! Does anyone else enjoy historical evidence of what the pillars and foundation of Christ's Church did? What they 'started' and what we hold to today? I find tradition fascinating especially within the Church. They were Hebrew. Tradition would be there! On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight. 8 There were many lamps in the upper room where we were gathered together.… They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. Then he went upstairs again and broke bread and ate. After talking until daylight, he left. On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made. I think the historical aspect even beyond the Bible is fascinating. The Church kept record, they wrote things down. Scripture itself is Sacred Tradition.
8/22/2014 9:16:08 AM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	Deneez, you bolstered my already high opinion of you when you admitted your error, after making further inquiry. Would that other people in this crazy world would do this. Acts 20:7 clearly shows that the early Christians, even in apostolic times, were observing Sunday, not Saturday, as the sabbath.
8/22/2014 11:37:31 PM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
deneez Rochester, MI 56, joined Apr. 2012	Quote from ludlowlowell: Deneez, you bolstered my already high opinion of you when you admitted your error, after making further inquiry. Would that other people in this crazy world would do this. Acts 20:7 clearly shows that the early Christians, even in apostolic times, were observing Sunday, not Saturday, as the sabbath. Thanks Lud, but my point was that Christians weren't observing the Sabbath at all. They were trying to kill Paul after hearing him evangelize in the Synagogue's. There was no Sabbath practice to change from Saturday to Sunday to begin with.
8/23/2014 2:01:40 PM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	Acts 20:7 says that the early Christians met on the first day of the week (Sunday) for the Breaking of the Bread. Now as a Catholic you surely know that that means the Eucharist, what we nowadays call the Mass. Somewhere in there Peter must have changed the sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, maybe because the Lord told him to in a vision, maybe because the Lord just inspired him to do so, we don't know. But we do know that it was changed, and Tradition tells us that it was changed because Jesus rose on Sunday. Every Sunday, then, is a little Easter.
8/23/2014 9:09:58 PM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
wayn49 Birmingham, AL 54, joined Feb. 2011	all i know is that on the seventh day God made it holy and he rested and blessed it. one would assume that the sabbath was already Gods plan. it could be that the law the 10 commandments was already in place in heaven where Gods throne is because it is his character of who he is. was not cain cursed for killing his brother? thou shalt not kill. according to the bible Jesus was the word and was with God at creation. it is not Gods plan to force worship but gave us a day of rest to rest from our work. in the new earth every sabbath which is one day out of the week all will go worship before God. why? i do not think its his way of demanding worship, but a time to celebrate and rest from our labors or every day things we will do. a day to fellowship
8/23/2014 11:15:32 PM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
indianadave1951 Elkhart, IN 65, joined Dec. 2010	"Forsake not the assembling of yourself together". Which day doesn't matter. What matters is that we gather together with a local body of believers and worship God in Spirit and in truth.
8/24/2014 8:48:34 AM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
visitingfriends Evansville, WI 76, joined Jan. 2011	Some religious organizations (Seventh-day Adventists, Seventh-Day Baptists, and certain others) claim that Christians must not worship on Sunday but on Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath. They claim that, at some unnamed time after the apostolic age, the Church "changed" the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday. However, passages of Scripture such as Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2, Colossians 2:16-17, and Revelation 1:10 indicate that, even during New Testament times, the Sabbath is no longer binding and that Christians are to worship on the Lord’s day, Sunday, instead. The early Church Fathers compared the observance of the Sabbath to the observance of the rite of circumcision, and from that they demonstrated that if the apostles abolished circumcision (Gal. 5:1-6), so also the observance of the Sabbath must have been abolished. The following quotations show that the first Christians understood this principle and gathered for worship on Sunday. The Didache "But every Lord’s day . . . gather yourselves together and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned" (Didache 14 [A.D. 70]). The Letter of Barnabas "We keep the eighth day [Sunday] with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead" (Letter of Barnabas 15:6–8 [A.D. 74]). Ignatius of Antioch "[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e. Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death" (Letter to the Magnesians 8 [A.D. 110]). Justin Martyr "[W]e too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined [on] you—namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your heart. . . . [H]ow is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us—I speak of fleshly circumcision and Sabbaths and feasts? . . . God enjoined you to keep the Sabbath, and imposed on you other precepts for a sign, as I have already said, on account of your unrighteousness and that of your fathers . . ." (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 18, 21 [A.D. 155]). "But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead" (First Apology 67 [A.D. 155]). Tertullian "[L]et him who contends that the Sabbath is still to be observed as a balm of salvation, and circumcision on the eighth day . . . teach us that, for the time past, righteous men kept the Sabbath or practiced circumcision, and were thus rendered ‘friends of God.’ For if circumcision purges a man, since God made Adam uncircumcised, why did he not circumcise him, even after his sinning, if circumcision purges? . . . Therefore, since God originated Adam uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering him sacrifices, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, was by him [God] commended [Gen. 4:1–7, Heb. 11:4]. . . . Noah also, uncircumcised—yes, and unobservant of the Sabbath—God freed from the deluge. For Enoch too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, he translated from this world, who did not first taste death in order that, being a candidate for eternal life, he might show us that we also may, without the burden of the law of Moses, please God" (An Answer to the Jews 2 [A.D. 203]).
8/24/2014 8:51:14 AM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
visitingfriends Evansville, WI 76, joined Jan. 2011	The Didascalia "The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there be service, and the reading of the holy scriptures, and the oblation [sacrifice of the Mass], because on the first day of the week [i.e., Sunday] our Lord rose from the place of the dead, and on the first day of the week he arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week he ascended up to heaven, and on the first day of the week he will appear at last with the angels of heaven" (Didascalia 2 [A.D. 225]). Origen "Hence it is not possible that the [day of] rest after the Sabbath should have come into existence from the seventh [day] of our God. On the contrary, it is our Savior who, after the pattern of his own rest, caused us to be made in the likeness of his death, and hence also of his resurrection" (Commentary on John 2:28 [A.D. 229]). Victorinus "The sixth day [Friday] is called parasceve, that is to say, the preparation of the kingdom. . . . On this day also, on account of the passion of the Lord Jesus Christ, we make either a station to God or a fast. On the seventh day he rested from all his works, and blessed it, and sanctified it. On the former day we are accustomed to fast rigorously, that on the Lord’s day we may go forth to our bread with giving of thanks. And let the parasceve become a rigorous fast, lest we should appear to observe any Sabbath with the Jews . . . which Sabbath he [Christ] in his body abolished" (The Creation of the World [A.D. 300]). Eusebius of Caesarea "They [the early saints of the Old Testament] did not care about circumcision of the body, neither do we [Christians]. They did not care about observing Sabbaths, nor do we. They did not avoid certain kinds of food, neither did they regard the other distinctions which Moses first delivered to their posterity to be observed as symbols; nor do Christians of the present day do such things" (Church History 1:4:8 [A.D. 312]). "[T]he day of his [Christ’s] light . . . was the day of his resurrection from the dead, which they say, as being the one and only truly holy day and the Lord’s day, is better than any number of days as we ordinarily understand them, and better than the days set apart by the Mosaic law for feasts, new moons, and Sabbaths, which the apostle [Paul] teaches are the shadow of days and not days in reality" (Proof of the Gospel 4:16:186 [A.D. 319]). Athanasius "The Sabbath was the end of the first creation, the Lord’s day was the beginning of the second, in which he renewed and restored the old in the same way as he prescribed that they should formerly observe the Sabbath as a memorial of the end of the first things, so we honor the Lord’s day as being the memorial of the new creation" (On Sabbath and Circumcision 3 [A.D. 345]). Cyril of Jerusalem "Fall not away either into the sect of the Samaritans or into Judaism, for Jesus Christ has henceforth ransomed you. Stand aloof from all observance of Sabbaths and from calling any indifferent meats common or unclean" (Catechetical Lectures 4:37 [A.D. 350]). Council of Laodicea "Christians should not Judaize and should not be idle on the Sabbath, but should work on that day; they should, however, particularly reverence the Lord’s day and, if possible, not work on it, because they were Christians" (Canon 29 [A.D. 360]). John Chrysostom "[W]hen he [God] said, ‘You shall not kill’ . . . he did not add, ‘because murder is a wicked thing.’ The reason was that conscience had taught this beforehand, and he speaks thus, as to those who know and understand the point. Wherefore when he speaks to us of another commandment, not known to us by the dictate of conscience, he not only prohibits, but adds the reason. When, for instance, he gave commandment concerning the Sabbath— ‘On the seventh day you shall do no work’—he subjoined also the reason for this cessation. What was this? ‘Because on the seventh day God rested from all his works which he had begun to make’ [Ex. 20:10-11]. . . . For what purpose then, I ask, did he add a reason respecting the Sabbath, but did no such thing in regard to murder? Because this commandment was not one of the leading ones. It was not one of those which were accurately defined of our conscience, but a kind of partial and temporary one, and for this reason it was abolished afterward. But those which are necessary and uphold our life are the following: ‘You shall not kill. . . . You shall not commit adultery. . . . You shall not steal.’ On this account he adds no reason in this case, nor enters into any instruction on the matter, but is content with the bare prohibition" (Homilies on the Statutes 12:9 [A.D. 387]). "You have put on Christ, you have become a member of the Lord and been enrolled in the heavenly city, and you still grovel in the law [of Moses]? How is it possible for you to obtain the kingdom? Listen to Paul’s words, that the observance of the law overthrows the gospel, and learn, if you will, how this comes to pass, and tremble, and shun this pitfall. Why do you keep the Sabbath and fast with the Jews?" (Homilies on Galatians 2:17 [A.D. 395]). "The rite of circumcision was venerable in the Jews’ account, forasmuch as the law itself gave way thereto, and the Sabbath was less esteemed than circumcision. For that circumcision might be performed, the Sabbath was broken; but that the Sabbath might be kept, circumcision was never broken; and mark, I pray, the dispensation of God. This is found to be even more solemn than the Sabbath, as not being omitted at certain times. When then it is done away, much more is the Sabbath" (Homilies on Philippians 10 [A.D. 402]).
8/24/2014 8:53:51 AM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
visitingfriends Evansville, WI 76, joined Jan. 2011	The Apostolic Constitutions "And on the day of our Lord’s resurrection, which is the Lord’s day, meet more diligently, sending praise to God that made the universe by Jesus, and sent him to us, and condescended to let him suffer, and raised him from the dead. Otherwise what apology will he make to God who does not assemble on that day . . . in which is performed the reading of the prophets, the preaching of the gospel, the oblation of the sacrifice, the gift of the holy food" (Apostolic Constitutions 2:7:60 [A.D. 400]). Augustine "Well, now, I should like to be told what there is in these ten commandments, except the observance of the Sabbath, which ought not to be kept by a Christian. . . . Which of these commandments would anyone say that the Christian ought not to keep? It is possible to contend that it is not the law which was written on those two tables that the apostle [Paul] describes as ‘the letter that kills’ [2 Cor. 3:6], but the law of circumcision and the other sacred rites which are now abolished" (The Spirit and the Letter 24 [A.D. 412]). Pope Gregory I "It has come to my ears that certain men of perverse spirit have sown among you some things that are wrong and opposed to the holy faith, so as to forbid any work being done on the Sabbath day. What else can I call these [men] but preachers of Antichrist, who when he comes will cause the Sabbath day as well as the Lord’s day to be kept free from all work. For because he [the Antichrist] pretends to die and rise again, he wishes the Lord’s day to be held in reverence; and because he compels the people to Judaize that he may bring back the outward rite of the law, and subject the perfidy of the Jews to himself, he wishes the Sabbath to be observed. For this which is said by the prophet, ‘You shall bring in no burden through your gates on the Sabbath day’ [Jer. 17:24] could be held to as long as it was lawful for the law to be observed according to the letter. But after that the grace of almighty God, our Lord Jesus Christ, has appeared, the commandments of the law which were spoken figuratively cannot be kept according to the letter. For if anyone says that this about the Sabbath is to be kept, he must needs say that carnal sacrifices are to be offered. He must say too that the commandment about the circumcision of the body is still to be retained. But let him hear the apostle Paul saying in opposition to him: ‘If you be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing’ [Gal. 5:2]" (Letters 13:1 [A.D. 597]). NIHIL OBSTAT: I have concluded that the materials presented in this work are free of doctrinal or moral errors. Bernadeane Carr, STL, Censor Librorum, August 10, 2004 IMPRIMATUR: In accord with 1983 CIC 827 permission to publish this work is hereby granted. +Robert H. Brom, Bishop of San Diego, August 10, 2004 Any way Lud the Sabbath has never been changed by the church, however the day of worship has been changed. So I respectfully submit this Catholic article.
8/24/2014 9:03:00 AM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
visitingfriends Evansville, WI 76, joined Jan. 2011	I realize that some of our Non Catholic brothers and sisters would like to believe their was no history from Acts until the Reformation, but to do so is acting like the preverbal ostrich sticking their heads in the sand and pretending it isn't so. Who can deny the great Christian leaders mentioned in my previous posts if one is realistic.
8/24/2014 10:42:21 AM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
deneez Rochester, MI 56, joined Apr. 2012	Yet it is considered 'over-ruling' Sacred Scripture by following Sacred Tradition. The Early Hebrew 'Church' met in homes, Preaching Christ in fellowship and breaking Bread, a command of Christ to "Do This, in Remembrance of Me"....something they could not do without examining their conscience says St. Paul or they would be guilty of profaning the Body and Blood of Christ. This Tradition is the Same Tradition seen within our Church Today. The entire 10 commandments were nailed to the Cross as a *legal code!* The 10 commandments under the Law of Moses required sinlessness for justification. The 10 commandments under the Law of Christ offers *perfect* motivation because of Grace. "Bear ye one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ" (Gal. 6: 2) The Law of Christ is perfect because it is the "perfect law of liberty" Colossians 2: 14 He canceled the record that contained the charges against us. He took it and destroyed it by nailing it to Christ's cross. 15 In this way, God disarmed the evil rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross of Christ. 16 So don't let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new-moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. 17 For these rules were only shadows of the real thing, Christ himself. 18 Don't let anyone condemn you by insisting on self-denial. And don't let anyone say you must worship angels, even though they say they have had visions about this. These people claim to be so humble, but their sinful minds have made them proud. 19 But they are not connected to Christ, the head of the body. For we are joined together in his body by his strong sinews, and we grow only as we get our nourishment and strength from God. 20 You have died with Christ, and he has set you free from the evil powers of this world. So why do you keep on following rules of the world, such as, 21 "Don't handle, don't eat, don't touch." 22 Such rules are mere human teaching about things that are gone as soon as we use them. 23 These rules may seem wise because they require strong devotion, humility, and severe bodily discipline. But they have no effect when it comes to conquering a person's evil thoughts and desires.
8/24/2014 11:08:34 AM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
wayn49 Birmingham, AL 54, joined Feb. 2011	if you can honor thou shalt not steal then why can you not honor the 7th day? how can you throw away the true sabbath day and honor 9 other commandments? the 4th commandment did not say remember what day you choose to rest, but remember the sabbath day which was instituted in the garden of eden. therefore its not just the jews or hebrews or isreal but for all. and the desciples and many others did worship on saturday the sabbath up until it was changed which there is no scripture authority. we can harp on this all day long but you will not find any scripture that says Jesus or any true follower of God changed the sabbath. it is not there
8/24/2014 11:21:19 AM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
visitingfriends Evansville, WI 76, joined Jan. 2011	Pull your head out of the sand Wayne. History did happen.
8/24/2014 11:40:15 AM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
wayn49 Birmingham, AL 54, joined Feb. 2011	Quote from visitingfriends: Pull your head out of the sand Wayne. History did happen. yes it did when man tampered with the 4th commandment
8/24/2014 11:48:16 AM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	Matthrew 16:19 gives the pope the authority to change the sabbath. Pope Francis could change it to Tuesday or Wednesday if he so chose. Acts 20:7 shows that the early Christians were observing Sunday as the sabbath.
8/24/2014 12:47:02 PM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
deneez Rochester, MI 56, joined Apr. 2012	Quote from wayn49: if you can honor thou shalt not steal then why can you not honor the 7th day? how can you throw away the true sabbath day and honor 9 other commandments? the 4th commandment did not say remember what day you choose to rest, but remember the sabbath day which was instituted in the garden of eden. therefore its not just the jews or hebrews or isreal but for all. and the desciples and many others did worship on saturday the sabbath up until it was changed which there is no scripture authority. we can harp on this all day long but you will not find any scripture that says Jesus or any true follower of God changed the sabbath. it is not there Here's the thing. Why in heaven's name would I want to commemorate an Old Creation? From Adam to the time of Moses death reigned even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, the 'law' was handed down as a taskmaster, God's choses people needed to be 'commanded' to worship God>>>>think Golden Calf here! WE follow the faith of Father Abraham, (furch should like that one!) And He never celebrated a Sabbath. I have offered you the forum to decipher where and when the Early Church after the time of the Resurrection of Our Lord was worshipping on the Sabbath. In other words rebuttel the history Danny provided. I could follow everyone of the ten commandments and never be justified or have God be pleased with me. Like Cain.
8/24/2014 9:02:19 PM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
wayn49 Birmingham, AL 54, joined Feb. 2011	Quote from deneez: Here's the thing. Why in heaven's name would I want to commemorate an Old Creation? From Adam to the time of Moses death reigned even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, the 'law' was handed down as a taskmaster, God's choses people needed to be 'commanded' to worship God>>>>think Golden Calf here! WE follow the faith of Father Abraham, (furch should like that one!) And He never celebrated a Sabbath. I have offered you the forum to decipher where and when the Early Church after the time of the Resurrection of Our Lord was worshipping on the Sabbath. In other words rebuttel the history Danny provided. I could follow everyone of the ten commandments and never be justified or have God be pleased with me. Like Cain. because God made all things. and the sabbath is a commandment. and in revelation in the first angels message it states, fear God and give glory to God who made all things and worship him who made all things. so many would not dare kill which is a commandment but they make every excuse about the sabbath. and Jesus said he was lord of the sabbath. how much plainer can you get. sin is what distorted the earth in the beginning which was not Gods plan g
8/24/2014 9:17:32 PM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
visitingfriends Evansville, WI 76, joined Jan. 2011	The issue in this passage, then, is how to interpret the Mosaic Law, and who has the authority to do so. Nothing is said about which group of people, or whether everyone, is commanded to keep the Sabbath. To drive home this explanation regarding the purpose of the weekly rest day, Jesus said to the Pharisees: “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.” What was his point? It was not whether Christians – or everyone – or a limited group – must observe the old covenant Sabbath. That doesn’t come up at all in the conversation. Jesus was talking to Jews under the old covenant. Jesus was a Jew, born under the Law (Galatians 4:4). Jesus kept the old covenant worship regulations. The issue was how should the Sabbath law be interpreted and observed by those people, the Jews, to whom it applied. The Jewish teachers of the law, at least many of them, had made the Sabbath a burden for the people. Jesus was pointing out that human needs sometimes supersede legal requirements. His statement has no application to the question of whether Christians should or should not keep the Sabbath. The question was, “How should those who are required to keep the Sabbath (the Jews under the old covenant) do so?” Made for human need Jesus was saying that the Sabbath, under the old covenant, was meant to serve human needs, not the other way around, thus the use of the expression that the “Sabbath was made for man.” It was made for human need in a certain context, under the old covenant worship system as defined by the Law of Moses, until the Seed, Christ, should come. Israelites were to rest from their work because they needed a rest from their agricultural toil. Through that rest they could worship God as the provider of all their needs, and as the God who had saved them from slave-like toil in Egypt. The Sabbath regulation was not given to Israel simply because God wanted people to keep religious rituals. It had a purpose for all those human beings to whom it was given. But it was given only to Israel under the old covenant. Jews recognized that the Law of Moses, particularly its cultic observances such as weekly and annual Sabbaths, applied only to national Israel. Jewish rabbis understood that non-Jews did not need to keep the Law of Moses, including the Sabbath rest. This law was given to Israel alone, and only for as long as the old covenant was in force. The Pharisees, the religious leaders, had questioned Jesus’ authority on the matter of his disciples’ picking grain on the Sabbath. They had set themselves up above him on the issue of Sabbath interpretation. Yet, Jesus was the Word of God made flesh. Therefore, Jesus, God incarnate, had more authority than the Pharisees to decide how the Sabbath should be observed – again, under the circumstances where it was required. He was, after all, the Lord of the law that had commanded Sabbath observance for old covenant Israel. Jesus’ statement says nothing about who should or should not keep the Sabbath. Of course Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath. He is Lord of every command ever given by God – including all the 613 commands (by rabbinical count) of the Law of Moses. Jesus is also Lord of all time and all days of the week, including Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday. Jesus is, after all, Lord. But his being Lord of the Sabbath does not mean to say it is commanded for all people. The Lord of Israel was Lord of the law of circumcision, given as a sign to the children of Israel. But the fact that God was Lord of the circumcision law does not of itself imply that all human beings must keep it. In all cases, we have to know which of the laws apply to new covenant Christians.
8/25/2014 10:08:01 AM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
deneez Rochester, MI 56, joined Apr. 2012	Danny's post makes much sense. In the same token it's not on my heart to celebrated a Passover, (in the sense of the Old Covenant) Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. 8 Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. In the same token it's not on my heart to celebrate a Sabbath, (in the sense of the Old Covenant) which commemorates the Old Creation, Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here! If one began with Scripture and moved forward in history there is no continuum of Sabbath Worship within the Early Church. It could be picked up as a protest within the 16th century (some sects in the late 1960's) but they lost the connection to the Early Church. They have lost the teachings and the early practices of the Apostles along the line. The law cannot save you. You are not justified under the law. The law does not provide Grace. The law never made anyone righteous in the Eyes of God. The law does not offer fortitude, perseverance, or any Gifts of the Holy Spirit. The law does not lead one's heart closer to God. Wayne asks why I don't covet, steal, or commit adultery but don't adhere to the Sabbath law. Probably for the same reason I would not participate in euthanasia as a nurse, but would offer a portion of my pay to someone out of work, feed the stray cat, or pray for someone who is clearly doing evil. The law? No. The Holy Spirit? I pray so. Moses went down the mountain to the people to deliver the law. Jesus went up the mountain and delivered His perfect law. You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[e] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. “It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’[f] 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery. “Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not break your oath, but fulfill to the Lord the vows you have made.’ 34 But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[h] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven.
8/25/2014 12:02:57 PM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
visitingfriends Evansville, WI 76, joined Jan. 2011	Their are those who say, but Jesus kept the law, Jesus kept the Sabbath. Of course Jesus kept the law and the Sabbath, He was born under the old covenant, in fact He probably was circumcised under the law as well. But what did Jesus say He came to do, He said he came to fulfill the law. Just because Jesus was circumcised is it a part of the New Covenant for all to be circumcised? Not according to the Acts where baptism has replaced circumcision. We see in history the day of worship was changed from the Sabbath to the Lords day, the first day of the week. The Sabbath was not changed, only the day of worship was changed. Saturday is still the Sabbath but their is no obligation on the part of Christians to treat it any different then any other day of the week. If some one wants to worship the Lord on the Sabbath or any other day of the week, and many of the early Christians did so daily, but it only on the first day of the week that is an obligation. And if people want to have their babies circumcised that too is a choice as long as it is for health reasons and not for religious reasons. While I am at it I might add that children were circumcised to incorporate them into the Jewish family prior to them making their own choice and this is why baptism of children is done for the same reason, as they are incorporated into the family of God.
8/25/2014 12:08:09 PM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
wayn49 Birmingham, AL 54, joined Feb. 2011	Quote from deneez: Danny's post makes much sense. In the same token it's not on my heart to celebrated a Passover, (in the sense of the Old Covenant) Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. 8 Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. In the same token it's not on my heart to celebrate a Sabbath, (in the sense of the Old Covenant) which commemorates the Old Creation, Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here! If one began with Scripture and moved forward in history there is no continuum of Sabbath Worship within the Early Church. It could be picked up as a protest within the 16th century (some sects in the late 1960's) but they lost the connection to the Early Church. They have lost the teachings and the early practices of the Apostles along the line. The law cannot save you. You are not justified under the law. The law does not provide Grace. The law never made anyone righteous in the Eyes of God. The law does not offer fortitude, perseverance, or any Gifts of the Holy Spirit. The law does not lead one's heart closer to God. Wayne asks why I don't covet, steal, or commit adultery but don't adhere to the Sabbath law. Probably for the same reason I would not participate in euthanasia as a nurse, but would offer a portion of my pay to someone out of work, feed the stray cat, or pray for someone who is clearly doing evil. The law? No. The Holy Spirit? I pray so. Moses went down the mountain to the people to deliver the law. Jesus went up the mountain and delivered His perfect law. You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[e] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. “It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’[f] 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery. “Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not break your oath, but fulfill to the Lord the vows you have made.’ 34 But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[h] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. his perfect law was to love but in no way was it to do away with the law. the sabbath is something we do because we love God not because we have
8/25/2014 12:15:02 PM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
visitingfriends Evansville, WI 76, joined Jan. 2011	Are you still preaching Circumcision? Having been born under the law Jesus in all probability was Circumcised as well. Remember according to you if Jesus did it so should you. However remember you were not born under the law, Jesus fulfilled it.
8/25/2014 5:59:52 PM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
a_nubian Columbus, OH 52, joined Jan. 2011	To the OP Polycarp Kept the Sabbath and Has Been Called a Nazarene Polycarp kept the seventh day Sabbath. How do we now this? There are at least four reasons: He endorsed the commandments of God, and the Sabbath is one of them. He objected to changing the date of Passover to a Sunday, whereas Sunday observers accepted this change. His church reported about him and the Sabbath. Sabbath-keeping was still happening in his Asia Minor region until at least the fifth century. According to the letter The Martyrdom of Polycarp by the Smyrnaeans: "on the day of the preparation, at the hour of dinner, there came out pursuers and horsemen" and Polycarp was killed "on the day of the great Sabbath (The Martyrdom of Polycarp, Bishop of Smyrna, Verses 7.1 & 8.1. Charles H. Hoole's 1885 translation. © 2001 Peter Kirby). The use of these two expressions ("day of the preparation" and "the day of the great Sabbath") strongly indicates that those in Polycarp's area were still keeping the Sabbath in the latter portion of the 2nd century. Otherwise, since Asia Minor (including Smyrna) was a Gentile area, the terms preparation and Sabbath would not have been relevant. Furthermore, since when Polycarp visited Rome, he confronted the heretic Marcion. It should be noted that Marcion was may have been the first who professed Christianity to write against Sabbath observance. And according to Irenaeus, Polycarp turned Christians away from the heretic Marcion (Irenaeus. Adversus Haeres. Book III, Chapter 3, Verse 4). The 17th century historian William Cave reported that the early Christians in Asia Minor (which he called "the Eastern parts"), kept the Sabbath. Notice his report: ...the Sabbath or Saturday (for so the word sabbatum is constantly used in the writings of the fathers, when speaking of it as it relates to Christians) was held by them in great veneration, and especially in the Eastern parts honoured with all the public solemnities of religion...This is plain, not only from some passages in Ignatius and Clemens's Constitutions, but from writers of more unquestionable credit and authority. Athanasius, bishop of Alexandria, tells us, that they assembled on Saturdays, not that they were infected with Judaism, but only to worship Jesus Christ, the Lord of the sabbath (Cave William, D.D. Primitive Christianity: or the Religion of the Ancient Christians in the First Ages of the Gospel. 1840 edition revised by H. Cary. Oxford, London, pp. 84,85). Sozomen, in the mid-fifth century reported: The people of Constantinople, and almost everywhere, assemble together on the Sabbath as well as on the first day of the week, which custom is never observed at Rome or at Alexandria (Sozomen. THE ECCLESIASTICAL HISTORY OF SOZOMEN. Comprising a History of the Church, from a.d. 323 to a.d. 425. Book VII, Chapter XIX. Translated from the Greek. Revised by Chester D. Hartranft, Hartford Theological Seminary UNDER THE EDITORIAL SUPERVISION OF PHILIP SCHAFF, D.D., LL.D., AND HENRY WACE, D.D., Professor of Church History in the Union Theological Seminary, New York. Principal of King's College, London. T&T CLARK, EDINBURGH, circa 1846). This shows that Sabbath keeping continued in parts of Asia Minor through the time of Sardis and into what is sometimes considered to be the Pergamos era, but that Rome and Alexandria were only observing Sunday (even though they observed the Sabbath until at least the early second century). For the fifth reason (which is why I wrote "at least four"), please see the section of this paper titled The Life of Polycarp. It may be of interest to note that a Jewish Rabbi Ifaac in the 15th century considered that Polycarp was a Nazarene as he wrote: Polycarp…Born late in the reign of Nero, he became a Nazarene (Hoffman , David. Chronicles from Cartaphilus: The Wandering Jew. Published by T. Bosworth, 1853. Original from the University of Michigan. Digitized Sep 7, 2007, p. 636) Although Ifaac has the wrong birth time (Polycarp appears to have been born in the reign of Claudius), the fact is that Polycarp had the beliefs and practices of various ones called Nazarenes. The Apostle Paul was called a Nazarene (Acts 24:5) and most account of Nazarenes show that they held to practices like Sabbath-keeping (see Nazarene Christianity: Were the Original Christians Nazarenes?). Source: http://www.cogwriter.com/polycarp.htm If I have time I will post on Justin Martyr.
8/25/2014 7:10:14 PM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
louie6332 Falkville, AL 73, joined Nov. 2011	OP, you say: “The law cannot save you. “You are not justified under the law. “The law does not provide Grace. “The law never made anyone righteous in the Eyes of God. “The law does not offer fortitude, perseverance, or any Gifts of the Holy Spirit. “The law does not lead one's heart closer to God.” But you are wrong, the law DOES provide grace; keeping the commandments of God is one of the ordinary sources of grace, and one of the requirements for salvation for Jews and Christians. Christ himself started naming off the ten commandments when a young man came and asked him what he must do to be saved. You consider yourself a Christian, so why don't you refer to Christ? Louie
8/25/2014 7:55:09 PM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
a_nubian Columbus, OH 52, joined Jan. 2011	Visiting However, passages of Scripture such as Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2, Colossians 2:16-17, and Revelation 1:10 indicate that, even during New Testament times, the Sabbath is no longer binding and that Christians are to worship on the Lord’s day, Sunday, instead. The Acts of the Apostles Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight. Clearly the disciples are meeting on Sunday, the first day of the week. It might even be presumed by some that by "breaking bread" they celebrated the Lord's supper that Sunday. The question that needs to be asked though, is why were the disciples assembled on this day? What reason brought them together? In context, it will be seen that Paul was departing the next day on his journey to Jerusalem to be present during the Pentecost festival (v. 16). This gathering was a farewell assembly with Paul, the last day the people at Troas could meet with him, and that is why it lasted into the early morning hours. In fact Paul talked with them all through the night and then left in the morning at sunrise (v. 11). Did Paul preach? Yes, without doubt, as verse 7 makes clear. Does that indicate the day was special, a holy day? No, they preached every day: Acts 5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ. Did they celebrate the Lord's supper? Perhaps, yet even if they did, as some maintain, there is no indication that that Sunday, or any Sunday, was being observed as a newly instituted weekly holy day to commemorate the resurrection. The breaking of bread did not indicate a special day of worship, or even that the Lord's supper was being celebrated, as scripture tells us they met daily and broke bread from house to house: Acts 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat [food] with gladness and singleness of heart, This indicates nothing more than eating what are called agape meals of fellowship, which are not necessarily connected with a formal worship service involving partaking in communion. Here is another example of breaking bread meaning a common meal: Acts 27:33 And while the day was coming on, Paul besought them all to take meat [food], saying, This day is the fourteenth day that ye have tarried and continued fasting, having taken nothing. Acts 27:34 Wherefore I pray you to take some meat [food]: for this is for your health: for there shall not an hair fall from the head of any of you. Acts 27:35 And when he had thus spoken, he took bread, and gave thanks to God in presence of them all: and when he had broken it, he began to eat. Now some will point to the celebration of Pentecost, found in Acts 2, and rightly claim that this occurred on a Sunday. Since that year the 16th of Nisan; the day of firstfruits; which was a type of the resurrection; fell on Sunday, Pentecost would also fall on Sunday. However, those gathered in the upper room on that day were gathered because it was Pentecost, not because it was Sunday: Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. Had they been gathered to observe the resurrection, wouldn't Luke have told us that this was the new day of the week for all Christians to observe? But, you say, we do observe Pentecost always on a Sunday (Whitsunday). Perhaps you do, but not by anything directed in scripture. Pentecost, like Passover, is not tied to any particular week day. It is determined by the day of the month of the biblical lunar calendar, which means it does not always fall on Sunday. According to the scriptural calculation, Pentecost will most likely be on (or about) the 6th day of the third month, Sivan, which will only occasionally fall on the first day of the week. When the Catholic Church ruled in the Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D. that the resurrection (Easter) would always be observed on a Sunday (instead of the biblical 16 Nisan), this automatically resulted in Pentecost being observed only on a Sunday, but this change lacks any biblical support. So, there is nothing in the book of Acts that leads us to believe that Sunday had been set aside as a weekly holy day of worship to honor the resurrection. Paul's First Letter to the Corinthians 1 Cor 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. Paul writes to the Corinthians that he is requesting money be saved for distribution to the needy saints in Jerusalem (v. 3). Paul is recommending that each person, on the first day of the week, lay aside and save by themselves a proportional amount of their income for the purpose of this offering. In that way, when Paul arrives the necessary funds will be already set aside and available. 1 Cor 16:3 And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem. 1 Cor 16:4 And if it be meet that I go also, they shall go with me. Upon meeting with Paul after his arrival at Corinth, the money that had been saved up would be given to the designated courier and taken to Jerusalem by Paul's direction. Most notably, Paul is not instructing the Corinthians to observe Sunday, or even implying that funds are to be collected at a Sunday worship service. He is saying that on the first day of the week each person is to allocate and set aside at home (lay by him in store) a portion of their funds. There is no indication that the individual needed to leave home or go anywhere to do this. It is also clear from the book of Acts, that Paul kept only the Sabbath day in Corinth, and not Sunday: Acts 18:1 After these things Paul departed from Athens, and came to Corinth; Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks. Acts 18:11 And he continued there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them. That's 72 Sabbaths that Paul preached in Corinth. There can be no question that Paul raised up a Sabbath keeping church in Corinth, a church that knew nothing of observing Sunday as a holy day. So, while many will point to 1 Corinthians 16:2 in the light of Tradition, and say that it refers to passing the collection plate during a Sunday service, in context, that is simply not indicated by the text. That completes the entire testimony of the scriptures on the first day of the week. Note that not once in the Gospels, or indeed the whole of the New Testament, did Jesus Christ even mention the first day of the week, much less declare it the new day of rest to replace the Saturday Sabbath. And not once, according to the New Testament, were the Apostles gathered together in worship on a Sunday for the declared purpose of honoring the resurrection. Not another verse in the remaining books of the New Testament even mention the first day of the week. Now some may immediately object, and say, "But there is another to consider, you have overlooked the Apocalypse." In that case let us move to the last book of scripture. Source: from Michael Sheifler There is not one verse in the New Testament that Explicit states First Day Sabbath.
8/25/2014 11:47:21 PM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
deneez Rochester, MI 56, joined Apr. 2012	I simply asked for historical information on the early worship of Christians. Like, fresh from the Apostles. 70 a.d. to 300 a.d. time period. Start there. St. Paul's purpose in the Synagogues was to convert, preach and teach. How could he worship with them? They had beat him and another passage says they sought to kill him. For real? The information is out there. The Early Church being Hebrew kept records very well. The Church is historical folks. If someone asked how Christians worshipped they could find this info. Who started the Church anyway? Jesus, and the ministry of the Apostles. To date no one has offered this information. Best wishes.
8/26/2014 12:02:18 AM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
deneez Rochester, MI 56, joined Apr. 2012	Quote from louie6332: OP, you say: “The law cannot save you. “You are not justified under the law. “The law does not provide Grace. “The law never made anyone righteous in the Eyes of God. “The law does not offer fortitude, perseverance, or any Gifts of the Holy Spirit. “The law does not lead one's heart closer to God.” But you are wrong, the law DOES provide grace; keeping the commandments of God is one of the ordinary sources of grace, and one of the requirements for salvation for Jews and Christians. Christ himself started naming off the ten commandments when a young man came and asked him what he must do to be saved. You consider yourself a Christian, so why don't you refer to Christ? Louie 1 Tim 1:8-10: “But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine.” Rom 3:21-22 “But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe.” The law and the 10 commandments were nailed to the Cross...all of it. Not ONE jot was left unfulfilled. He didn't abolish, He fulfilled. The Sermon on the Mount stands the 10 commandments on it's ear with Truth. It's a powerhouse of how we were to live, in depth with meaning and passion. Ought to read it sometime louie, He missed nothing!
8/26/2014 8:07:32 AM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
visitingfriends Evansville, WI 76, joined Jan. 2011	a_nubian You have totally misapplied every scripture you have mentioned. For example Paul teaching on a Sabbath in the synagogues. Where else would he go to get a large audience of Jews to try to convert. It doesn't say once that He worshiped in those same synagogue's. Also you will not hear anything said about a first day Sabbath, as their is no such thing. The day of worship was changed to Sunday but the Sabbath remained on Saturday and still does today. Their is way to much evidence that the 1'st day of the week became the new day of worship in history and unless you can ignore history totally you would be able to see that. All of the great church Fathers worshiped on the first day of the week as a regular event and in that special service they would receive the Eucharist which was instituted by our Lord at the last supper. Now the early church Fathers are those who studied and or traveled with the Apostles and learned from them Their was no little remnant church that continued to worship through out history, unbroken on the sabbath. The Christian Church was not just another Jewish sect but it was new and emphasized the difference. Just as Circumcision was abolished so also was the day of worship. The 10 commandments are all rolled up into "love God with all your heart and love your neighbor as your self." The Protestant 4th commandment is the only commandment not mentioned again in the New Testament. As Denny said in Jesus' Sermon on the Mt. Jesus pretty much goes through the 10 commandments and explains what is expected of His followers and keeping the Sabbath is not one of them. He had a golden opportunity to do so if He wanted. After Jesus' death not once is anyone chastised for not keeping the Sabbath. The Sabbath question was not even a major issue until Ellen White, a follower of William Miller was influenced by a Seventh Day Baptist grabbed that ball and started running with it. Oh and another follower of Miller was Charles Tazzie Russell the founder of the Jehovah's Witness. This alone shows without direction from the church how two people claiming to follow the Holy Spirit can go totally in two different direction, being sincere but sincerely wrong. With over 135,000 different Christian beliefs out their it is truly like the Tower of Babble all over again, all going in different directions and nobody understanding each other. Thank you God for leaving me a place I can turn to for direction and a foundation built on bedrock instead of shifting sand. I pray with Jesus that may they all be one. [Edited 8/26/2014 8:09:07 AM ]
8/26/2014 9:25:51 AM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	If Sunday is the day that the Church commands us to rest from servile labor, and if Sunday is the day the Church requires to attend Mass, then why isn't Sunday the sabbath? Do you agree, Visitingfriends, that the pope has the authority to change the day of the sabbath with the authority the Lord gave him at Matthew 16:19? [Edited 8/26/2014 9:26:14 AM ]
8/26/2014 9:37:41 AM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
deneez Rochester, MI 56, joined Apr. 2012	Quote from ludlowlowell: If Sunday is the day that the Church commands us to rest from servile labor, and if Sunday is the day the Church requires to attend Mass, then why isn't Sunday the sabbath? Do you agree, Visitingfriends, that the pope has the authority to change the day of the sabbath with the authority the Lord gave him at Matthew 16:19? Lud, for crying out Loud. Find me the 'Pope' decree in writing that the Sabbath was changed. The contention of this thread is that we did not commemorate the Sabbath. I am seeking witness as to Early Christian worship! The where and when.
8/26/2014 10:15:56 AM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
mssmie Gladewater, TX 42, joined Jul. 2013	Quote from josiemae: Deneez, Isn't it true that the Jews worshipped on the Sabbath in the synagogue? Was there any other church bedside the synagogue? Is it also true that there are Jews and Gentiles? The Jews know that they are the chosen and we as Gentiles have to be grafted in. The Jews kept the Sabbath, Jesus Christ was a Jew, therefore He kept the Sabbath with other Jews. The Christian Church came after the death of Christ. What is the Christian Church? It is the foundation of those who follow in the footsteps of Jesus Christ. Since Jesus kept the Sabbath, we must emulate His character by keeping the Sabbath like Him. Amen, if i can add Do we not recognize that God made this decreed before the laws but the 7th day of creation. Do we not understsnd that we can not change what god has proclaim? No matter what your church says we are followers of Christ who follows the word of tbe father. So do we think are self better than christ ? Do we think that we have more power than Christ? Do we think we can make up things at whelm. It maybe your church history to go sunday. But who are you following Christ or your church ? Or even better question who is your church following. If your lord keep the 7th why is his church not ? If your God said keep it why would the church that worship dont? Is it wrong to test the fruit of who is teaching you with God word? Or should be disobedient and follow who ever screams the loudest. Many who say they believe, fail to see Christ in scripture. They only see their church and many will call out Lord Lord but no answer as you denied his word he to will deny you.
8/26/2014 10:40:10 AM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
deneez Rochester, MI 56, joined Apr. 2012	Quote from mssmie: Amen, if i can add Do we not recognize that God made this decreed before the laws but the 7th day of creation. Do we not understsnd that we can not change what god has proclaim? No matter what your church says we are followers of Christ who follows the word of tbe father. So do we think are self better than christ ? Do we think that we have more power than Christ? Do we think we can make up things at whelm. It maybe your church history to go sunday. But who are you following Christ or your church ? Or even better question who is your church following. If your lord keep the 7th why is his church not ? If your God said keep it why would the church that worship dont? Is it wrong to test the fruit of who is teaching you with God word? Or should be disobedient and follow who ever screams the loudest. Many who say they believe, fail to see Christ in scripture. They only see their church and many will call out Lord Lord but no answer as you denied his word he to will deny you. Here's the thing mssmie, The Church is historical and the thread was not made as another argument for the worship on Sunday, and it wasn't meant for an argument against the Sabbath. The Sabbath still exists for the Jews, and the Orthodox follow the laws subscribed to it. No work, etc. They will not even move their cars for snow removal on the Sabbath. The topic is to offer historical writings on the when and where of early Church worship after the resurrection of Our Lord. It's simple and it's out there.
8/26/2014 12:11:47 PM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	Deneez, I have seen Catholic writers who say that Saturday is still the sabbath, but that Catholics still observe Sunday as their day of worship and rest. I have seen other Catholic writers who say that the sabbath is now Sunday, changed by the authority of the pope (Pope Peter, in this case, because when Acts 20:7 was written it was already being done). It appears to me that the second interpretation is the correct one. What is the sabbath, for the Jews, ancient and modern? It is the day they rest from work and worship God. So, for Christians, thanks to the early Church using her God-given authority to change the day, Sunday is now the sabbath. Oh, Saturday is still the sabbath but....is not an argument that holds much water with me.
8/26/2014 1:31:12 PM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
deneez Rochester, MI 56, joined Apr. 2012	Lud, hello, earth to you... You have someone attempting to use Polycarp (a disciple of Saint John) as an example of Sabbath Worship. A dispute arose when to celebrate the Pasch (what we now call Easter) as to whether align it with the Judaic Passover, or keep it on Sunday. In his later years, he tried to settle disputes about the date to celebrate Easter, and he confronted one of the church's most troublesome heretics, the Gnostic Marcion, calling him "the first born of Satan," when he ran into him in Rome. Polycarp was also responsible for converting many from Gnosticism. His only existing writing, a pastoral letter to the church at Philippi, shows he had little formal education, and was unpretentious, humble, and direct........... Also Athanasius "The Sabbath was the end of the first creation, the Lord’s day was the beginning of the second, in which he renewed and restored the old in the same way as he prescribed that they should formerly observe the Sabbath as a memorial of the end of the first things, so we honor the Lord’s day as being the memorial of the new creation" (On Sabbath and Circumcision 3 [A.D. 345])............. Justin Martyr describes the Sunday gathering as a solemn day of worship celebrating and partaking of the Body and Blood of Christ. I'm researching now on my own thread looking for Sabbath worship and I can't find any. So, I'm done with it, if you wish to add historical evidence of Sabbath then the offer is for you too.
8/26/2014 3:11:53 PM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
visitingfriends Evansville, WI 76, joined Jan. 2011	Quote from ludlowlowell: If Sunday is the day that the Church commands us to rest from servile labor, and if Sunday is the day the Church requires to attend Mass, then why isn't Sunday the sabbath? Do you agree, Visitingfriends, that the pope has the authority to change the day of the sabbath with the authority the Lord gave him at Matthew 16:19? I agree that the pope was given all authority to bind and loose and even though he could have changed the Sabbath, he didn't. The early Church Fathers compared the observance of the Sabbath to the observance of the rite of circumcision, and from that they demonstrated that if the apostles abolished circumcision (Gal. 5:1-6), so also the observance of the Sabbath must have been abolished. The following quotations show that the first Christians understood this principle and gathered for worship on Sunday. Augustine "Well, now, I should like to be told what there is in these ten commandments, except the observance of the Sabbath, which ought not to be kept by a Christian. . . . Which of these commandments would anyone say that the Christian ought not to keep? It is possible to contend that it is not the law which was written on those two tables that the apostle [Paul] describes as ‘the letter that kills’ [2 Cor. 3:6], but the law of circumcision and the other sacred rites which are now abolished" (The Spirit and the Letter 24 [A.D. 412]). NIHIL OBSTAT: I have concluded that the materials presented in this work are free of doctrinal or moral errors. Bernadeane Carr, STL, Censor Librorum, August 10, 2004 IMPRIMATUR: In accord with 1983 CIC 827 permission to publish this work is hereby granted. +Robert H. Brom, Bishop of San Diego, August 10, 2004 Lud you do believe in an Imprimatur don't you? The article that the two above paragraphs came from had this Imprimatur above at the bottom. The church did not change the Sabbath to Sunday, but did change the day of worship. Their is no place in Catholic Church history that you will find it. You will find that Catholics are accused of doing so but it is untrue.
8/26/2014 3:25:35 PM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
visitingfriends Evansville, WI 76, joined Jan. 2011	Lud, from the Catholic catechism. What Day the Sabbath Is First, let's clear away a potential source of confusion. While it's true that people sometimes speak of Sunday as "the Christian sabbath," this is a loose way of speaking. Strictly speaking, the sabbath is the day it always was--Saturday--though it should be noted that traditionally Jewish people have celebrated the sabbath from sundown on Friday to sundown on Saturday. Sunday is a distinct day, which follows the sabbath. The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains: 2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ. Why We Celebrate Sunday That same paragraph explains why we celebrate on Sunday. For Christians the ceremonial observance of Sunday replaces that of the sabbath. Properly speaking, we're not celebrating the sabbath on Sunday. We're celebrating something else, but it's something that the sabbath points toward. As the Catechism says, the Jewish sabbath announces man's eternal rest in God and prefigures some aspects of Christ. Sunday thus fulfills what the sabbath pointed toward. Read more: http://www.ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-akin/did-the-catholic-church-change-the-sabbath#ixzz3BX1gR4Iv
8/26/2014 3:40:23 PM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
visitingfriends Evansville, WI 76, joined Jan. 2011	Lud and anyone else, I would like to repeat one more time from the Catholic Catechism... "Properly speaking, we're not celebrating the sabbath on Sunday. We're celebrating something else, but it's something that the sabbath points toward. As the Catechism says, the Jewish sabbath announces man's eternal rest in God and prefigures some aspects of Christ. Sunday thus fulfills what the sabbath pointed toward." AS FOR ME AND MY HOUSE WE SHALL CELABRATE WHAT THE SABBATH POINTED TO, AND IS FULFILLED ON THE LORD'S DAY THROUGH THE MASS, WHICH GIVES US THE EUCHARIST, OUR LORDS GIFT TO US. In doing so my rest is in Jesus Christ the true and everlasting Sabbath. [Edited 8/26/2014 3:41:16 PM ]
8/26/2014 5:51:43 PM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
5044life Metairie, LA 34, joined Mar. 2014	Have anybody ever heard the saying "Dawn of a new day" meaning beginning so if the two Mary's and the disciples with up the mountain at dawn and the rock was already moved . He was already gone. Did he rise on Sunday.
8/26/2014 7:09:16 PM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
wayn49 Birmingham, AL 54, joined Feb. 2011	Quote from deneez: Here's the thing mssmie, The Church is historical and the thread was not made as another argument for the worship on Sunday, and it wasn't meant for an argument against the Sabbath. The Sabbath still exists for the Jews, and the Orthodox follow the laws subscribed to it. No work, etc. They will not even move their cars for snow removal on the Sabbath. The topic is to offer historical writings on the when and where of early Church worship after the resurrection of Our Lord. It's simple and it's out there. one more time the sabbath was never on sunday. it was man made. and those who do worship on sunday and do not honor the sabbath saturday are following the church of rome.
8/26/2014 7:58:16 PM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
visitingfriends Evansville, WI 76, joined Jan. 2011	Wayne, the one thing I will agree with you is the Sabbath was NEVER on Sunday, but those who worship on Sunday are following God and His son Jesus Christ who has made ALL things NEW. [Edited 8/26/2014 7:58:43 PM ]
8/26/2014 9:12:54 PM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
indianadave1951 Elkhart, IN 65, joined Dec. 2010	Which day to worship on are theologies being supported by religious orders. Yes, the apostles and early believers worshiped on Saturday but did so because they still had a lot of Judaism still ingrained in them. As time progressed they matured and these traditions began to fall away. The law and it's specific Holy days served a purpose but are fulfilled in Christ and have no further purpose in this period of God's grace. As I said earlier: God is more interested in the condition of our spiritual life (our relationship with him) than the day we worship on.
8/26/2014 9:50:17 PM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
visitingfriends Evansville, WI 76, joined Jan. 2011	Quote from indianadave1951: Which day to worship on are theologies being supported by religious orders. Yes, the apostles and early believers worshiped on Saturday but did so because they still had a lot of Judaism still ingrained in them. As time progressed they matured and these traditions began to fall away. The law and it's specific Holy days served a purpose but are fulfilled in Christ and have no further purpose in this period of God's grace. As I said earlier: God is more interested in the condition of our spiritual life (our relationship with him) than the day we worship on. Dave can you confirm that Christians kept the Jewish Sabbath through scripture and/or history?
8/26/2014 11:07:33 PM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
a_nubian Columbus, OH 52, joined Jan. 2011	Seventh-day rest In the 1st centuries, the first day, being made a festival in honor of Christ's resurrection, received attention as a day of religious services and recreation, but seventh-day Sabbath rest was still observed by "almost all churches".[8][9] According to classical sources, widespread seventh-day Sabbath rest by Gentile Christians was also the prevailing mode in the 3rd and 4th centuries.[9][10] Source: Wikipedia "For although almost all churches throughout the world celebrate the sacred mysteries [the Lord's Supper] on the sabbath of every week, yet the Christians of Alexandria and at Rome, on account of some ancient tradition, have ceased to do this." Socrates Scholasticus, Ecclesiastical History, book 5, chap. 22, in The Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (NPNF) Second Series, Vol. II, p. 132. "The people of Constantinople, and almost everywhere, assemble together on the Sabbath, as well as on the first day of the week, which custom is never observed at Rome or at Alexandria." Sozomen, Ecclesiastical History, book 7, chap. 19, in NPNF, Second Series, Vol. II, p. 390. Then there was the advocation of keeping both days. "Let the slaves work five days; but on the Sabbath-day [Saturday] and the Lord's day [Sunday] let them have leisure to go to church for instruction in piety." Apostolic Constitutions,(dated from 375 to 380 AD) book 7, sec. 2, chap. 23, and book 8, sec. 4, chap. 33 in The Ante-Nicene Fathers (ANF), Vol. VII, pp. 469, 495. Gregory of Nyssa, the late fourth century referred to the Sabbath and Sunday as "sisters." Gregory of Nyssa, De Castigatione ("On Reproof"), in J. P. Migne, Patrologia Graeca, vol. 46, col. 309 (Greek) and col. 310 (Latin). And about A.D. 400 Asterius of Amasea declared that it was beautiful for Christians that the "team of these two days comes together"..."the Sabbath and the Lord's day," which each week gathers together the people with priests as their instructors. Asterius, Homily 5, on Matthew 19:3, in Migne, Patrologia Graeca, vol. 40, col. 225 (Greek) and col. 226 (Latin)
8/27/2014 6:59:27 AM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
deneez Rochester, MI 56, joined Apr. 2012	I did go to your source at Wiki, because some of the information was not listed in it's context, From your source: Sabbath in Christianity is a weekly day of rest or religious observance, derived from the Biblical Sabbath. In the 2nd century AD, the observance of a corporate day of worship on the first day (Sunday) had become commonplace, as attested in the patristic writings.[1] For such worshipers the term "Lord's Day" came to mean the first day. Sunday worship also took on the observance of sabbatarian rest in some Christian traditions, such as the Puritans of the 16th and 17th centuries. Among these "first-day Sabbatarians", Sunday eventually became synonymous with a first-day Christian Sabbath. Non-Sabbatarianism, the principle of Christian liberty from being bound to physical Sabbath observance, has significant historical support. Non-Sabbatarians focus on Sabbath's typological meaning, i.e., its representation of present or future spiritual rest in Christ. Seventh-day Sabbath observance, i.e., resting from sunset to sunset on the seventh day (from Friday to Saturday), similarly to Shabbat in Judaism, is practiced by seventh-day Sabbatarians................... Now, we don't believe Sunday is a Sabbath at all. I can go along with the sister idea, but only to a certain extent. One was of the old creation....one a new. I can also go along with the idea of an 'ancient' Tradition stemming from The Apostles as when they met, preached, broke Bread, and tithed. It would definitely be in Rome as that is where Peter and Paul were. It's all there. Your other writings focus on 'a' Sabbath rest, which STILL existed , but not as primary worship of the Early Church. Christian worship. I was seeking early Christian 'Worship'....which by the way none of the writings you offered rebuked or denied.
8/27/2014 7:33:10 AM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
deneez Rochester, MI 56, joined Apr. 2012	Here is the thing. I don't care if someone worships on a Tuesday. But, since the time I've been on here there has been a growing contention that The Church changed the Sabbath to Sunday. I offered you the opportunity to provide your claim within history. Since we 'worship' on Sunday and this is a bone of contention, there would be historical documentation. For something to be 'changed' it had to be in practice to begin with. How did early Christians celebrate a Sabbath? Did they go to Temple? Having ended the prayers, we salute one another with a kiss. There is then brought to the president of the brethren bread and a cup of wine mixed with water; and he taking them, gives praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and offers thanks at considerable length for our being counted worthy to receive these things at His hands. And when he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all the people present express their assent by saying Amen. This word Amen answers in the Hebrew language to ?E???t? (so be it). And when the president has given thanks, and all the people have expressed their assent, those who are called by us deacons give to each of those present to partake of the bread and wine mixed with water over which the thanksgiving was pronounced, and to those who are absent they carry away a portion. Chapter 67. Weekly worship of the Christians. And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration. _________________________________________________________ Excerpt from the "Acts of the Martyrdom of Saint Justin and his Companions" Written in 150 a.d.
8/27/2014 7:40:40 AM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
visitingfriends Evansville, WI 76, joined Jan. 2011	Quote from visitingfriends: Lud, from the Catholic catechism. What Day the Sabbath Is First, let's clear away a potential source of confusion. While it's true that people sometimes speak of Sunday as "the Christian sabbath," this is a loose way of speaking. Strictly speaking, the sabbath is the day it always was--Saturday--though it should be noted that traditionally Jewish people have celebrated the sabbath from sundown on Friday to sundown on Saturday. Sunday is a distinct day, which follows the sabbath. The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains: 2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ. Why We Celebrate Sunday That same paragraph explains why we celebrate on Sunday. For Christians the ceremonial observance of Sunday replaces that of the sabbath. Properly speaking, we're not celebrating the sabbath on Sunday. We're celebrating something else, but it's something that the sabbath points toward. As the Catechism says, the Jewish sabbath announces man's eternal rest in God and prefigures some aspects of Christ. Sunday thus fulfills what the sabbath pointed toward. Read more: http://www.ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-akin/did-the-catholic-church-change-the-sabbath#ixzz3BX1gR4Iv Again so it does not get lost in thr shuffle I am reposting this for Lud.
8/27/2014 8:26:29 AM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	If that is ehat the Church teaches then I accept it.
8/27/2014 8:49:38 AM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	But the day of rest and worship was still changed, by the early Catholic Church with the authority granted to her by Jesus at Matthew 16:19, from Saturday to Sunday.
8/27/2014 8:55:17 AM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
visitingfriends Evansville, WI 76, joined Jan. 2011	Quote from ludlowlowell: But the day of rest and worship was still changed, by the early Catholic Church with the authority granted to her by Jesus at Matthew 16:19, from Saturday to Sunday. Thank you Lud for your gracious response. Yes the worship was changed to Sunday and fulfilled what the old Sabbath pointed to. Like I said in the first post answering your question, absolutely the Pope was given the power in Matt 16 to do so if he wanted to change the actual Sabbath.
8/27/2014 10:45:10 AM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
mssmie Gladewater, TX 42, joined Jul. 2013	Quote from deneez: Here's the thing mssmie, The Church is historical and the thread was not made as another argument for the worship on Sunday, and it wasn't meant for an argument against the Sabbath. The Sabbath still exists for the Jews, and the Orthodox follow the laws subscribed to it. No work, etc. They will not even move their cars for snow removal on the Sabbath. The topic is to offer historical writings on the when and where of early Church worship after the resurrection of Our Lord. It's simple and it's out there. Deneez Christ told you to keep the commandments. Scripture says to love God keep his commandents. But you want to deny this???? We are not Sabbaths day worshipers. There was more than one. We as believers do not have to keep them. But 7th day sabbath is forever. This is how you set your self apart. Keeping the commandments.
8/27/2014 11:06:20 AM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
visitingfriends Evansville, WI 76, joined Jan. 2011	Quote from mssmie: Deneez Christ told you to keep the commandments. Scripture says to love God keep his commandents. But you want to deny this???? We are not Sabbaths day worshipers. There was more than one. We as believers do not have to keep them. But 7th day sabbath is forever. This is how you set your self apart. Keeping the commandments. I shouldn't even bother answering but I will. So then do you also celebrate Passover when and how God ordered to be done forever? When did YEHOVAH originally command that the Passover be observed? YEHOVAH commanded Israel, "In the tenth day of this month [Nisan], they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house . . . And ye shall keep it until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall KILL IT in the evening [Hebrew, "between the two evenings"]. . . . And they shall EAT the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it. . . . For I will PASS through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt . . . And THIS DAY shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a FEAST to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a FEAST by an ordinance for ever" (Exodus 12:3-14). This passage shows that the lambs were kept up until the afternoon of Nisan 14, when they were slain, "between the two evenings." This expression meant simply between noon, when the sun begins to go "down," and sunset, when the sun has "gone" down -- it means, in other words, the time of the "going down" of the sun in the sky, until it has completely set (see also Deut. 16:6). Since in YEHOVAH God's calendar each day begins at sunset and ends at sunset (Leviticus 23:32; Gen. 1:5, 8, 13, 19, 23, 31), this means that the lambs were sacrificed at the last few hours of Nisan 14, and then roasted and eaten that same night, after sunset, or on NISAN 15! Nothing can be plainer than this simple fact. In Exodus 12, YEHOVAH God goes on to tell His people, "And ye shall observe this thing for an ORDINANCE TO THEE AND TO THY SONS FOR EVER" (verse 24). When children would ask their parents about this day, they were to teach them, "It is the sacrifice of the LORD's passover, who PASSOVER OVER the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when he smote the Egyptians, and delivered our houses" (verse 27). PLEASE NOTE..this thing for an ORDINANCE TO THEE AND TO THY SONS FOR EVER" (verse 24). Again...ye shall keep it a FEAST by an ordinance for ever" (Exodus 12:3-14). Forever is a long time mssmie! Do you keep this along with the Sabbath? Why or why not?
8/27/2014 11:09:23 AM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
deneez Rochester, MI 56, joined Apr. 2012	Quote from mssmie: Deneez Christ told you to keep the commandments. Scripture says to love God keep his commandents. But you want to deny this???? We are not Sabbaths day worshipers. There was more than one. We as believers do not have to keep them. But 7th day sabbath is forever. This is how you set your self apart. Keeping the commandments. mssmie, The Topic is Early Christian Worship and the history thereof. I believe it has been discussed and anyone wishing to contribute can readily find this information with the technology at our fingertips today. Description on the when, where, and how is available at a time when some believe the Catholic Church wasn't even formed. Oral teaching and written instruction were traditions of the Early Church because they were Hebrew. Matthew 5 holds the Teachings of Christ in which He addresses the commandments. SOme have referred to it as the NEW Testament Decalogue. HE covers the commandments....and amends them. HE missed nothing and confirms HE misses not one dot of the Law.
8/27/2014 2:41:14 PM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
a_nubian Columbus, OH 52, joined Jan. 2011	Quote from deneez: I did go to your source at Wiki, because some of the information was not listed in it's context, From your source: Deneez I was being consistent with your opening post. I addressed Polycarp. I then addressed 7th Day observance citing historical records. Sabbath in Christianity is a weekly day of rest or religious observance, derived from the Biblical Sabbath. In the 2nd century AD, the observance of a corporate day of worship on the first day (Sunday) had become commonplace, as attested in the patristic writings.[1] For such worshipers *the term "Lord's Day" came* to mean the first day.** Sunday worship also took on the observance of sabbatarian rest in some Christian traditions, such as the Puritans of the 16th and 17th centuries. Among these "first-day Sabbatarians", Sunday eventually became synonymous with a first-day Christian Sabbath. Actually the wikipedia insert was an after thought; however, with wikipedia's opening comment it still shows that First day observance was not readily practiced immediately after Christ Resurrection nor was it commonly observed until the 2nd century AD, as stated in Wikipedia. Therefore Sunday observance was an introduction into the Christian faith as an Orthodoxy. The evidence of this was already posted by me referencing Socrates Scholasticus & Sozomen (both during the fifth century) indicating that Alexandria and Rome were the exception to the rule as oppose to the norm in 7th Day Observance.
8/27/2014 2:44:59 PM	Early Christians did not Worship on the Sabbath
a_nubian Columbus, OH 52, joined Jan. 2011	Ignatius According to Irenaeus, Ignatius was Bishop of Antioch at the time of Trajan (A.D. 98-117).1 The Bishop argues “against the Judaizing tendencies of his territory, which, not far geographically from Palestine, had suffered the influences of the synagogue and of the Judaeo-Christians.” 2 His language suggests that the separation from Judaism was in progress, though the ties had not yet been severed. In fact the tenacious survival and veneration of Jewish institutions such as the Sabbath is explicitly mentioned by this author. For instance, in his Epistle to the Magnesians Ignatius writes, “For if we are still practicing Judaism, we admit that we have not received God’s favor. For the most divine prophets lived in accordance with Jesus Christ (ch. 8:1,2).”4 Ignatius statement, by default, indicates that early Christians were keeping the 7th Day Sabbath. Justin Martyr While Paul recognizes the educative value of the ceremonial law, Justin considers it “in a negative manner as the punishment for the sins of Israel.”34 He confirms this thesis repeatedly. After arguing, for instance, that the holy men before Moses35 did not observe either the Sabbath or the circumcision, he concludes: “Therefore, we must conclude that God, who is immutable, ordered these and similar things to be done only because of sinful men.”36 The Sabbath then, according to Justin, is a temporary ordinance deriving from Moses, enjoined to the Jews on account of their unfaithfulness for a time, precisely until the coming of Christ.37 The acceptance of this thesis is indispensable for Justin, in order to safeguard the immutability and the coherence of God. He explains: “If we do not accept this conclusion, then we shall fall into absurd ideas, as the nonsense either that our God is not the same God who existed in the days of Henoch and all the others, who were not circumcised in the flesh, and did not observe the Sabbaths and other rites, since Moses only imposed them later; or that God does not wish each succeeding generation of mankind always to perform the same acts of righteousness. Either supposition is ridiculous and preposterous. Therefore we must conclude that God, who is immutable, ordered these and similar things to be done only because of sinful men.”37 The Christian Church has never accepted such a false thesis. To say for instance that God commanded the circumcision and the Sabbath solely on account of the wickedness of the Jews “as a distinguishing mark, to set them off from other nations and from us Christians” so that the Jews only “might suffer affliction,” 38 makes God guilty, to say the least, of discriminatory practices. It would imply that God gave ordinances with the sole negative purpose of singling out the Jews for punishment. Unfortunately it is with this frame of mind that Justin argues for the repudiation of the Sabbath. Source: From Sabbath to Sunday: A Historical Investigation of the Rise of Sunday Observance in Early Christianity: THE PONTIFICAL GREGORIAN UNIVERSITY PRESS ROME, ITALY 1977 Book on Online: http://sherri.machighway.com/~bushidoi/Bushido_Institute/Text_Resources_files/From%20Sabbath%20To%20Sunday.pdf

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