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2/5/2016 4:43:47 PM God does exist!  

asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,488)
Sanbornton, NH
60, joined Jul. 2012
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"God is the Self of the world, but you can'st see God for the same reason that, without a mirror, you can'st see your own eyes, and you certainly can'st bite your own teeth or look inside your head. Your self is that cleverly hidden because it is God hiding"

"If you don’t know that there is a higher self and you believe that there is one, on who’s authority do you believe this? You say well such and such a teacher – Buddha, Jesus, or whomever said that we have a higher self. And I believe it. Catholics sometimes say they believe their religion because they are told to, and they have to be obedient. The Baltimore catechism starts out – we are bound to believe that there is but one god, father almighty – creator of the heaven and earth etc. And they make jokes about the Protestants and say they don’t have real authority in the protestant church because everybody interprets the bible according to his own opinion. But we have an authoritative interpretation of the bible.

However this always screens out the fact that, it is fundamentally a matter of your own opinion that you accept the authority of the church to interpret the bible. You cannot escape, in all matter of belief, from opinion. In other words, it must become clear to you that you yourself create all the authorities you accept. And if you create them, in order to dissimulate, in order to pretend that your motivations and your character are different, that you would like them to be different, this is the same old principle of the separate self trying to improve itself so that it will live longer or survive in the spiritual world, or attain the riches and progress of enlightenment,and the whole thing is phony."

Alan Watts

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2/5/2016 5:13:05 PM God does exist!  

kb2222
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,039)
Jacksonville, FL
75, joined Apr. 2011


When questioned sharply by students during his talk at University of California Santa Cruz in 1970, Watts responded, as he had from the early sixties, that he was not an academic philosopher but rather "a philosophical entertainer".

Watts has been criticized by Buddhists such as Philip Kapleau and D. T. Suzuki for allegedly misinterpreting several key Zen Buddhist concepts. In particular, he drew criticism from those who believe that zazen must entail a strict and specific means of sitting, as opposed to a cultivated state of mind available at any moment in any situation. Typical of these is Kapleau's claim that Watts dismissed zazen on the basis of only half a koan.[29] In regard to the aforementioned koan, Robert Baker Aitken reports that Suzuki told him, "I regret to say that Mr. Watts did not understand that story."[30] In his talks, Watts addressed the issue of defining zazen practice by saying, "A cat sits until it is tired of sitting, then gets up, stretches, and walks away."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Watts

2/5/2016 8:09:55 PM God does exist!  
cupocheer
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (163,603)
Assumption, IL
66, joined May. 2010


Yes.

2/5/2016 8:40:25 PM God does exist!  

aphrodisianus
Over 1,000 Posts (1,412)
Leander, TX
66, joined Oct. 2013


Quote from kb2222:


Your practice of having one thumb up your ass, the other in your mouth and then switching.

2/6/2016 8:02:40 AM God does exist!  

asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,488)
Sanbornton, NH
60, joined Jul. 2012
online now!


Quote from kb2222:
When questioned sharply by students during his talk at University of California Santa Cruz in 1970, Watts responded, as he had from the early sixties, that he was not an academic philosopher but rather "a philosophical entertainer".

Watts has been criticized by Buddhists such as Philip Kapleau and D. T. Suzuki for allegedly misinterpreting several key Zen Buddhist concepts. In particular, he drew criticism from those who believe that zazen must entail a strict and specific means of sitting, as opposed to a cultivated state of mind available at any moment in any situation. Typical of these is Kapleau's claim that Watts dismissed zazen on the basis of only half a koan.[29] In regard to the aforementioned koan, Robert Baker Aitken reports that Suzuki told him, "I regret to say that Mr. Watts did not understand that story."[30] In his talks, Watts addressed the issue of defining zazen practice by saying, "A cat sits until it is tired of sitting, then gets up, stretches, and walks away."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Watts


Umm, why don't you say something about the content of the post, rather than something irrelevant about the author.....I think Watts makes a valid argument about paradigm here.

2/6/2016 12:01:02 PM God does exist!  

kb2222
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,039)
Jacksonville, FL
75, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from asanb:
Umm, why don't you say something about the content of the post, rather than something irrelevant about the author.....I think Watts makes a valid argument about paradigm here.

I didn't say anything about my post because you didn't say anything about your post. And I have no idea what "paradigm" you think watts "makes a valid argument about" other than that one should not subordinate their mind to the "authority of the church to interpret the bible" in which I completely agree.

2/6/2016 8:15:59 PM God does exist!  

asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,488)
Sanbornton, NH
60, joined Jul. 2012
online now!


Quote from kb2222:
I didn't say anything about my post because you didn't say anything about your post. And I have no idea what "paradigm" you think watts "makes a valid argument about" other than that one should not subordinate their mind to the "authority of the church to interpret the bible" in which I completely agree.


No, the comment is much larger than that-
"You cannot escape, in all matter of belief, from opinion. In other words, it must become clear to you that you yourself create all the authorities you accept."

This includes books and deities as well as churches.

2/6/2016 9:04:06 PM God does exist!  

kb2222
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,039)
Jacksonville, FL
75, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from asanb:
No, the comment is much larger than that-
"You cannot escape, in all matter of belief, from opinion. In other words, it must become clear to you that you yourself create all the authorities you accept."

This includes books and deities as well as churches.

Belief is more than just opinion and yes by the exercise of our freewill we choose to believe what we believe/accept. So, I fail to see the point above you are trying to make. Please elaborate.

2/6/2016 9:19:16 PM God does exist!  
cupocheer
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (163,603)
Assumption, IL
66, joined May. 2010




2/7/2016 12:17:44 AM God does exist!  

nonstandard
Over 2,000 Posts (3,097)
York, PA
53, joined Jun. 2009


Quote from asanb:
"God is the Self of the world, but you can'st see God for the same reason that, without a mirror, you can'st see your own eyes, and you certainly can'st bite your own teeth or look inside your head. Your self is that cleverly hidden because it is God hiding"

"If you don’t know that there is a higher self and you believe that there is one, on who’s authority do you believe this? You say well such and such a teacher – Buddha, Jesus, or whomever said that we have a higher self. And I believe it. Catholics sometimes say they believe their religion because they are told to, and they have to be obedient. The Baltimore catechism starts out – we are bound to believe that there is but one god, father almighty – creator of the heaven and earth etc. And they make jokes about the Protestants and say they don’t have real authority in the protestant church because everybody interprets the bible according to his own opinion. But we have an authoritative interpretation of the bible.

However this always screens out the fact that, it is fundamentally a matter of your own opinion that you accept the authority of the church to interpret the bible. You cannot escape, in all matter of belief, from opinion. In other words, it must become clear to you that you yourself create all the authorities you accept. And if you create them, in order to dissimulate, in order to pretend that your motivations and your character are different, that you would like them to be different, this is the same old principle of the separate self trying to improve itself so that it will live longer or survive in the spiritual world, or attain the riches and progress of enlightenment,and the whole thing is phony."



Alan Watts




I like to believe that the self , is not a self . Its a piece of a whole , a whole that gave animals a self , so they could survive as independent entities .



[Edited 2/7/2016 12:18:31 AM ]

2/7/2016 12:59:29 AM God does exist!  

nonstandard
Over 2,000 Posts (3,097)
York, PA
53, joined Jun. 2009


Just because we're intelligent , it doesn't mean we're not beasts .

Belief may begin as early as the brain begins to develop in the womb , a false awareness that they are the most important thing in its environment . Its the foundation for successful survival , and reproduction . It gives every complex organism the will to care about itself , and the will to use whatever abilities it has for self preservation .

Its not there to make them deities , its there to protect what is truly precious , a physical form . We're here for the same reason everything else is here , something wants all life to flourish , and be successful . I cant say what that something is , all I can say is that something , is everything . It didn't create humans to be better than everything else .

It teaches us everything , we know to make things work , all the little pieces are as important , as all the bigger pieces . It has taught us how to be successful , but that tiny little nuance called instinct , keeps the beast ferocious , and unyielding .

2/7/2016 1:02:55 AM God does exist!  

sincetta
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,126)
Mobile, AL
29, joined May. 2014


to answer op...by faith...because to know is something beyond the understanding of primitive beings such as ourselves.

2/7/2016 1:16:51 AM God does exist!  

nonstandard
Over 2,000 Posts (3,097)
York, PA
53, joined Jun. 2009


Quote from olderthandirt20:
Actually I consider you to be the worthless organism here with your purpose to harass people who don't buy the snake oil you are trying to sell( warmed over adventist/sci-fi/pseudo science Sadler&Kellogs wet dream outdated mumbo-jumbo bullshit).
As for the badgering you are just as guilty of that as anyone here.
If you don't like what I have to say then you have the option to ignore or block.
I really don't care and you can kiss my behind.


Just keep swearing , for some reason he always hears that . You wont have to block him , he'll block you . Unless he was just using as an excuse , to retreat from a battle he was doomed to lose .



[Edited 2/7/2016 1:19:12 AM ]

2/7/2016 1:45:01 AM God does exist!  

sincetta
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,126)
Mobile, AL
29, joined May. 2014


i find it understandable for anyone to be offended by mockery, especially if it's deeply important, to them or otherwise. People think breaking an addiction is hard for the better, but actual change for the better is easy as it should be. it's hard to change for the worse because you have to lie to yourself. Sure other people might be satisfied, but really, who says they deserve the choices you make more than you.

science and religion should be able to get a long. in one main aspect. isaac asimov coined the phrase: There is a single light of science, and to brighten it anywhere is to brighten it everywhere.

religion, i think, should be able to be seen the same way. Mainly because it's mostly based on having a conscience.

we all have that same conscience. it's confusing because it's emotional, rather than mental like most people seem to believe. Mentality corrupts the conscience, albeit it can be beautiful and make us unique individuals to a certain extent. But it can also make the human race as a whole seem like an individual organism of benefit to no one or any thing but its own selfish destruction.

2/7/2016 2:32:06 AM God does exist!  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (19,902)
Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


I agree. There is no conflict between true religion and real science.

2/7/2016 2:45:53 AM God does exist!  

nonstandard
Over 2,000 Posts (3,097)
York, PA
53, joined Jun. 2009


Quote from sincetta:
i find it understandable for anyone to be offended by mockery, especially if it's deeply important, to them or otherwise. People think breaking an addiction is hard for the better, but actual change for the better is easy as it should be. it's hard to change for the worse because you have to lie to yourself. Sure other people might be satisfied, but really, who says they deserve the choices you make more than you.

science and religion should be able to get a long. in one main aspect. isaac asimov coined the phrase: There is a single light of science, and to brighten it anywhere is to brighten it everywhere.

religion, i think, should be able to be seen the same way. Mainly because it's mostly based on having a conscience.

we all have that same conscience. it's confusing because it's emotional, rather than mental like most people seem to believe. Mentality corrupts the conscience, albeit it can be beautiful and make us unique individuals to a certain extent. But it can also make the human race as a whole seem like an individual organism of benefit to no one or any thing but its own selfish destruction.


Everything gets its knowledge from the same place . Its it's feelings of self worth that makes it all meaningless . It has a purpose , but if used to destroy what put it there , then something must go , and its not what put it there . That , will go on , with , or without it .

2/7/2016 3:51:31 AM God does exist!  

sincetta
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,126)
Mobile, AL
29, joined May. 2014


Quote from nonstandard:
Everything gets its knowledge from the same place . Its it's feelings of self worth that makes it all meaningless . It has a purpose , but if used to destroy what put it there , then something must go , and its not what put it there . That , will go on , with , or without it .


knowledge is temporary. the knowledge of self in someone or something else is all that keeps us going. it's a mutual thing that is shared and grown upon or rather decays in our minds as a memory so to speak.
that said, knowledge itself isn't very important. how you feel, that's what matters. beauty doesn't necessarily imply intelligent design. to me, it implies immense power of heart, which meaning is of. the heart has all the answers. not the mind, it simply processes. most of the time the heart completely bypasses the mind altogether, who are we to say what the heart wants. it's a big deal, bigger than me or anyone else. i'd say bigger than humanity. who are we to claim the heart as our own. i could only only hope we'd all be so humble. they'd have to see it's more than that. it's more than everyone's preconceived perceptions of it put together times infinity.



[Edited 2/7/2016 3:52:25 AM ]

2/7/2016 4:58:25 AM God does exist!  

nonstandard
Over 2,000 Posts (3,097)
York, PA
53, joined Jun. 2009


Knowledge is forever this environment that gave it to us will be here forever. We cant beat it , and if we think that we can . we will die asasssssssssssssssssssssssssss imbiciles

2/7/2016 5:08:04 AM God does exist!  

sail_dancer
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,353)
Saint Petersburg, FL
68, joined Apr. 2010


Quote from ludlowlowell:
I agree. There is no conflict between true religion and real science.


I agree!

It is obvious that the religious see science as bullshit ..... and science sees religion as bullshit.

No conflict at all!

Peace

2/7/2016 7:30:02 AM God does exist!  

aphrodisianus
Over 1,000 Posts (1,412)
Leander, TX
66, joined Oct. 2013


Quote from sincetta:
i find it understandable for anyone to be offended by mockery, especially if it's deeply important, to them or otherwise.
Mockery is a natural response by reasonable people in the face of ridiculous delusions. However, if the deluded one enters mental health care it might be treatable.

People think breaking an addiction is hard for the better, but actual change for the better is easy as it should be. it's hard to change for the worse because you have to lie to yourself. Sure other people might be satisfied, but really, who says they deserve the choices you make more than you.
Religious delusions are considered the most difficult if not impossible to treat even in a clinical setting because they are deeply embedded into the patient who is usually surrounded by others sharing the same delusions.

science and religion should be able to get a long. in one main aspect. isaac asimov coined the phrase: There is a single light of science, and to brighten it anywhere is to brighten it everywhere.
And what does brightening something have to do with religion?

religion, i think, should be able to be seen the same way. Mainly because it's mostly based on having a conscience.
In the Abramamic faiths it's a disturbed and guilt ridden conscience. Not a mentally healthy state of mind. This kind of religiosity only serves to enslave and cause mental disorder.

we all have that same conscience.
No. Not everyone has the same level of awareness, self-awareness or intellectual capacity.

it's confusing because it's emotional, rather than mental like most people seem to believe. Mentality corrupts the conscience, albeit it can be beautiful and make us unique individuals to a certain extent. But it can also make the human race as a whole seem like an individual organism of benefit to no one or any thing but its own selfish destruction.
The confusion is really from having garbage fed into the mind by the common superstitious ignoramus religious fanatic. Young minds can't fend this off and this sort of brainwashing is a form of child abuse that lasts a lifetime.

2/7/2016 7:30:21 AM God does exist!  

sincetta
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,126)
Mobile, AL
29, joined May. 2014


Quote from nonstandard:
Knowledge is forever this environment that gave it to us will be here forever. We cant beat it , and if we think that we can . we will die asasssssssssssssssssssssssssss imbiciles

if you think this environment will be here forever you are f**king blind man.

2/7/2016 7:32:36 AM God does exist!  

sincetta
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,126)
Mobile, AL
29, joined May. 2014


Quote from aphrodisianus:
The confusion is really from having garbage fed into the mind by the common superstitious ignoramus religious fanatic. Young minds can't fend this off and this sort of brainwashing is a form of child abuse that lasts a lifetime.


i'm sorry, i sped read that and all i saw was that you had a score to settle, what you're arguing with is besides the point. i'm more interested in you. and your score.

what kind of relationship did you have with your mother?



2/7/2016 8:38:55 AM God does exist!  

jrbogie1949
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (13,550)
Oxnard, CA
66, joined Mar. 2009


Quote from sincetta:
to answer op...by faith...because to know is something beyond the understanding of primitive beings such as ourselves.


yep, only faith works in such cases.

2/8/2016 11:15:03 AM God does exist!  

asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,488)
Sanbornton, NH
60, joined Jul. 2012
online now!


Quote from kb2222:
Belief is more than just opinion and yes by the exercise of our freewill we choose to believe what we believe/accept. So, I fail to see the point above you are trying to make. Please elaborate.


No, Belief is exactly that- Opinion by another name. It lives in the mind and is a fabrication thereof.
Fact and truth are developed from seeing and hearing for one's own self, and even then not beyond question.

The greater part of religion is also exactly that- Morality stories and precepts from other people, and attempts to represent the teachings of long dead holy men who might or might not approve of the books and institutions born of their wake.

Unfortunately, none of us are able to reverse time and listen directly to what Jesus or Mohamed or Guru Nanaak or Kabir might have said, to experience the truth of it.

Fortunately, there are living saints and teachers that can be experienced here and now, but the Abrahamic religions prohibit going to them, posing themselves as the only truth.
We choose smoke and mirrors over reality.

2/8/2016 11:25:35 AM God does exist!  

kb2222
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,039)
Jacksonville, FL
75, joined Apr. 2011


YOU "choose smoke and mirrors over reality" alright when you profess belief in a "Supreme Being" but assert that the Supreme Being is not a Supreme Personality.

2/8/2016 3:44:00 PM God does exist!  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (19,902)
Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


Asanb, it is hard to love the very vague God that you believe in.

2/8/2016 4:05:03 PM God does exist!  

asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,488)
Sanbornton, NH
60, joined Jul. 2012
online now!


Quote from kb2222:
YOU "choose smoke and mirrors over reality" alright when you profess belief in a "Supreme Being" but assert that the Supreme Being is not a Supreme Personality.

I don't share your OPINION

2/8/2016 4:08:35 PM God does exist!  

asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,488)
Sanbornton, NH
60, joined Jul. 2012
online now!


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Asanb, it is hard to love the very vague God that you believe in.



Look up AMMA ....http://amma.org/

Instead of loving a character out of a book, you can look her in the eye and experience something holy.

And there are others.