9/17/2009 7:16:06 PM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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idphionix
Boise, ID
age: 70
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Quite often on this group there have been Christians criticizing other's beliefs. So do Christians follow what Jesus taught? Jesus never claimed to be the Son of God. The only place this term is used is when Jesus was before Pilate. Pilate asked Are you the Son of God?" To which Jesus responded, "Do you say I am or have other's told you this".
Now let's look at the conversion issue. If Jesus instructed his apostles to do anything it was "Go forth and teach all nations". Note the word is teach not preach there is a difference.
Most of what Christians believe is not what Jesus said or did it is What St Paul and to a lesser extent Peter said. Even that can not be proven because the Canon of the Bible was not put together till the middle of the Fourth Century and many Books were not included because they were contrary to what the Church and Emperor wanted it to say.
Christians if they want to follow Jesus as best as they can should go back and read their Gospels and Just the Gospels and follow Jesus. JMDO
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9/18/2009 5:23:29 AM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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trippy_hare
Arvada, CO
age: 27
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Wrong group.
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9/18/2009 5:58:02 AM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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idphionix
Boise, ID
age: 70
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Did you read it. Read the first paragraph before you shoot your mouth off. I have been on this forum since before you knew there was a DH
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9/18/2009 6:04:40 AM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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trippy_hare
Arvada, CO
age: 27
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Did you read it.
Yes.
Read the first paragraph before you shoot your mouth off.
Shoot my mouth off?
Two words is shooting my mouth off?
I did read it. You're asking people to pass judgment on a group they don't identify as, in the context of principles they don't adhere to. If you want to know about christians, go to the christian group. If you want to be a curmudgeonly old bastard- well, you're off to a good start.
I have been on this forum since before you knew there was a DH
GASP!
And that is supposed to impress me somehow?
If you are suggesting that you somehow have "seniority", please highlight the ruling that entitles you to it.
Oh wait, you don't.
What a f**king curmudgeon, you are.
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9/18/2009 6:24:13 AM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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idphionix
Boise, ID
age: 70
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I was pointing out that we are criticized for our beliefs by others who do not follow there own.
I never called names as you have me.
I pointed out my time on DH that I am well aware of what this forum is about. I was one of the original posters.
As for wanting to know about Christianity. I know Christianity very well which is why I'm a Wiccan.
Now unlike some I could have blocked you. I did not. You are entitled to an opinion, however, if you insist on name calling I will block. you can disagree without being disagreeable
[Edited 9/18/2009 6:25:15 AM ]
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9/18/2009 6:52:49 AM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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4evr6y
Lyndeborough, NH
age: 68
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am i missing something or are you having a dialog with yourself?
...[not to be confused with ourself]
but yes basicly i agree with your first post
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9/18/2009 8:22:51 AM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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trippy_hare
Arvada, CO
age: 27
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Calling you a curmudgeon is NOT calling names- it is a term used to describe the behavior you exhibited.
Let me remind you- I said two words. TWO WORDS. Your response was to tell me I was shooting my mouth off, then flaunt your "DH seniority" as though it had any f**king thing to do with the topic.
I stand by my statement- wrong group. Also, f**king curmudgeon. I stand by both. Go ahead and block me.
You are doing the same thing you complain about Christians doing. Don't you see the irony there?
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9/18/2009 11:34:35 AM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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woodsmamma
Winton, MN
age: 57
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Peace and love !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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9/18/2009 12:30:04 PM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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idphionix
Boise, ID
age: 70
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Tippy,
Curmudgeon noun A bad tempered or miserly person.(Oxford English Referance Dictionary)
I fail to see where the term applies. The use of a certain word in your last post was crude and vulgar. I have not seen a Christian use the F word in any post. It is bad manners in an open forum where others can read what is written.
This is my thread if you don't like my post ignore it or start your own thread
[Edited 9/18/2009 12:30:50 PM ]
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9/18/2009 12:39:13 PM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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nonstandard
York, PA
age: 48
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There are MANY posters on this forum that believe in Jesus , but they don't agree with the traditional role of Christian belief .
I like idphionix's observations , I don't think he would be welcome in the Christian forum , and that good enough for me .
If this is where he feels more comfortable , then why not ?
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9/19/2009 6:47:22 AM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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idphionix
Boise, ID
age: 70
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Trippy,
Ask and you shall receive. Not for you comments on my post but because of the vulgarity.
It will not be tolerated. If you want to be a foul mouthed person go elsewhere not on my thread
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9/19/2009 1:23:31 PM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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wolfyhp
Atascadero, CA
age: 37
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There are MANY posters on this forum that believe in Jesus , but they don't agree with the traditional role of Christian belief .
I like idphionix's observations , I don't think he would be welcome in the Christian forum , and that good enough for me .
If this is where he feels more comfortable , then why not ?
I very much agree with you. A person does not have to be a part of a religion to understand it and to discuss whether they see people following those teachings or not. There are Christians who post here both of the kind that are just good folks, many of whom don't fit in on the Christian group, then there are the kind that the OP spoke of.
However, if you believe the Bible to be accurate, which I do not, you would have to accept that in John 3:16 he called himself the "only begotten son." He also has said, "I and the Father are one." in John 10:30. However, I don't think the Bible is a reputable source much of the time and, of the Gospels, John is the least reliable. I was just pointing out that the verses are there and that is on what people base the claims that Jesus was the son of God.
Obviously, I don't accept the premise that he was the son of God any more than you or I or anyone else is. I accept that he may have been godly in a sense of "One with Brahman" for a Hindu take or "Bodhisattva" for a Buddhist take. However, I don't think he was God per se.
Anyway, just my opinion.
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9/19/2009 1:59:41 PM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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4evr6y
Lyndeborough, NH
age: 68
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Mainstream Christians learn of the limited and distorted
version of Jesus' teachings...
only a few pages in a compelation of ancient manuscripts.
When Jesus taught He used the best precepts of all religions.
Because he came as a Hebrew
and the new testament was written by those of his race,
there obviously was a bias.
For a more complete study of the Masters teachings,
early childhood and worldly travels...
there are other sources with much more depth.
.... CHRISTIANITY'S PROBLEM
"Do not overlook the value of your spiritual heritage, the river of truth running down through the centuries, even to the barren times of a materialistic and secular age. In all your worthy efforts to rid yourselves of the superstitious creeds of past ages, make sure that you hold fast the eternal truth. But be patient! when the present superstition revolt is over, the truths of Jesus' gospel will persist gloriously to illuminate a new and better way.
"But paganized and socialized Christianity stands in need of new contact with the uncompromised teachings of Jesus; it languishes for lack of a new vision of the Master's life on earth. A new and fuller revelation of the religion of Jesus is destined to conquer an empire of materialistic secularism and to overthrow a world sway of mechanistic naturalism. Urantia is now quivering on the very brink of one of its most amazing and enthralling epochs of social readjustment, moral quickening, and spiritual enlightenment.
"The teachings of Jesus, even though greatly modified, survived the mystery cults of their birthtime, the ignorance and superstition of the dark ages, and are even now slowly triumphing over the materialism, mechanism, and secularism of the twentieth century. And such times of great testing and threatened defeat are always times of great revelation.
"Religion does need new leaders, spiritual men and women who will dare to depend solely on Jesus and his incomparable teachings. If Christianity persists in neglecting its spiritual mission while it continues to busy itself with social and material problems, the spiritual renaissance must await the coming of these new teachers of Jesus' religion who will be exclusively devoted to the spiritual regeneration of men. And then will these spirit-born souls quickly supply the leadership and inspiration requisite for the social, moral, economic, and political reorganization of the world.
"The modern age will refuse to accept a religion which is inconsistent with facts and out of harmony with its highest conceptions of truth, beauty, and goodness. The hour is striking for a rediscovery of the true and original foundations of present-day distorted and compromised Christianity—the real life and teachings of Jesus."
........taken from TUB Paper 195:9:1-5
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9/20/2009 7:56:07 AM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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okie20
Nampa, ID
age: 70
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As A Christian I have been taught not to judge others. Most Christian churches today are not preaching the true gospel of Christ. Prayer for ourselves and others is the best recourse. Paul's gospel was inspired of God.
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9/23/2009 8:36:55 AM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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woodsmamma
Winton, MN
age: 57
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Not much, but that isn't to denigrate Christians in any way, as I can't see how any one can follow Christ's teachings, when no one church is following what Christ's original message was!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How can any one follow Christ's original message that exhisted before the great hack job! The great
God inspired editing of the message!
They removed all the good stuff that could help us see our potential,as powerful spiritual beings with out interference of clergy!They made us behave and believe we could not have a personal relationship with deity with out their interference, designed to control, and oppress us with fear of judment of terrible purportions!!!!!!!
And women , well they really got the shaft!
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9/23/2009 3:33:13 PM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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nonstandard
York, PA
age: 48
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As A Christian I have been taught not to judge others. Most Christian churches today are not preaching the true gospel of Christ. Prayer for ourselves and others is the best recourse. Paul's gospel was inspired of God.[/quote
I'm sorry , but I don't agree that any written word is any more inspired than any other .
If you want inspiration see , smell , hear , feel the mountains , the oceans , and all the inspiration nature (god) has to offer .
Enjoy...
[Edited 9/23/2009 3:35:05 PM ]
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9/23/2009 4:33:20 PM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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idphionix
Boise, ID
age: 70
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Non,
I totally agree. I have for a long while had a favorite saying that was supposedly said by a Native American woman, " Your sacred writings can be destroyed by Wind and rain; My sacred word is the wind and rain". The Creative Spirit's most sacred writings are right out my back door it is written in the forests , Lakes, Rivers and Mountains. It is an eagle flying over a Mountain Lake, or, the souring of a Grate Horned Owl against a full moon.
[Edited 9/23/2009 4:34:16 PM ]
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9/23/2009 4:41:03 PM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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nonstandard
York, PA
age: 48
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Now that "IS" inspiration . Its all about the journey .
[Edited 9/23/2009 4:44:33 PM ]
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9/23/2009 4:58:29 PM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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woodsmamma
Winton, MN
age: 57
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Non,
I totally agree. I have for a long while had a favorite saying that was supposedly said by a Native American woman, " Your sacred writings can be destroyed by Wind and rain; My sacred word is the wind and rain". The Creative Spirit's most sacred writings are right out my back door it is written in the forests , Lakes, Rivers and Mountains. It is an eagle flying over a Mountain Lake, or, the souring of a Grate Horned Owl against a full moon.
I am so happy and grateful to have this right out my back yard too!
The great horned owl has always had significance to me spiritually and in communing with my late father's energy! I don't know what he's late for! He's the one who is free of the heaviness of the world, I am relieved for him, as it just keeps getting more intense, but up to the task if push comes to shove.and it all breaks down!!!
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9/24/2009 7:31:09 PM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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idphionix
Boise, ID
age: 70
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I have a large litho of a grate horned owl that overlooks my bed. I feel a real closeness to the owl and the Eagle
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9/26/2009 6:37:03 PM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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succeeder
Annapolis, MD
age: 22
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Quite often on this group there have been Christians criticizing other's beliefs. So do Christians follow what Jesus taught? Jesus never claimed to be the Son of God. The only place this term is used is when Jesus was before Pilate. Pilate asked Are you the Son of God?" To which Jesus responded, "Do you say I am or have other's told you this".
i just opened my bible and seen in red letter, signifying that its Jesus speaking, saying "if i glorify myself, my glory is nothing; it is my father who glorifies me, of whom you say, 'He is our God'. john 8: 54. Now here he was talking to the jews and prophets, not pilate, v 52. So to me that sounds like Jesus is calling himself the son of God.
Now let's look at the conversion issue. If Jesus instructed his apostles to do anything it was "Go forth and teach all nations". Note the word is teach not preach there is a difference.
Most of what Christians believe is not what Jesus said or did it is What St Paul and to a lesser extent Peter said. Even that can not be proven because the Canon of the Bible was not put together till the middle of the Fourth Century and many Books were not included because they were contrary to what the Church and Emperor wanted it to say.
Christians if they want to follow Jesus as best as they can should go back and read their Gospels and Just the Gospels and follow Jesus. JMDO
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9/26/2009 7:04:30 PM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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succeeder
Annapolis, MD
age: 22
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Quite often on this group there have been Christians criticizing other's beliefs. So do Christians follow what Jesus taught? Jesus never claimed to be the Son of God. The only place this term is used is when Jesus was before Pilate. Pilate asked Are you the Son of God?" To which Jesus responded, "Do you say I am or have other's told you this".
uhhmmmm what about matthew 27:11 he says "it is as you say", so what does that mean?
Now let's look at the conversion issue. If Jesus instructed his apostles to do anything it was "Go forth and teach all nations". Note the word is teach not preach there is a difference.
It seems like your taking the bible in literal terms and that's why you have to prayer and ask God for understanding of his word when you read it because you can take any passage in the bible to mean anything you want it to. As far as the teaching v.s. preaching, what about romans 10:15. sounds like here your saying that since Jesus had instructed them to teach that they should preach, well this verse says how can a man preach unless he is sent. read romans 10:13-15 to get the full view of what im trying to say.
Most of what Christians believe is not what Jesus said or did it is What St Paul and to a lesser extent Peter said. Even that can not be proven because the Canon of the Bible was not put together till the middle of the Fourth Century and many Books were not included because they were contrary to what the Church and Emperor wanted it to say.
what peter are you referring to here?
Christians if they want to follow Jesus as best as they can should go back and read their Gospels and Just the Gospels and follow Jesus. JMDO
I don't know what kind of christians you have dealt with in the past but you have to understand that when a person gives their live over to Jesus that doesn't mean they are going to know everything about everything or they are all of a sudden become perfect, which they never will, but it's a growing process.
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9/26/2009 7:10:14 PM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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succeeder
Annapolis, MD
age: 22
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As A Christian I have been taught not to judge others. Most Christian churches today are not preaching the true gospel of Christ. Prayer for ourselves and others is the best recourse. Paul's gospel was inspired of God.
what is the gospel of Christ?
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9/26/2009 7:12:29 PM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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succeeder
Annapolis, MD
age: 22
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what is christianity?
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9/26/2009 7:14:49 PM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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succeeder
Annapolis, MD
age: 22
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eader]Quote from okie20:
As A Christian I have been taught not to judge others. Most Christian churches today are not preaching the true gospel of Christ. Prayer for ourselves and others is the best recourse. Paul's gospel was inspired of God.[/quote
I'm sorry , but I don't agree that any written word is any more inspired than any other .
If you want inspiration see , smell , hear , feel the mountains , the oceans , and all the inspiration nature (god) has to offer .
Enjoy...
how can you feel inspiration from an object?
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9/28/2009 9:33:28 AM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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nonstandard
York, PA
age: 48
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how can you feel inspiration from an object?
Your wasting your time here .
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9/28/2009 10:02:51 AM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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4evr6y
Lyndeborough, NH
age: 68
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what is the gospel of Christ?
I believe the gospel is... the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand
ie the Spirit of the First Source and Center of all things
coming to reside in the hearts of Men
...and the fact that we[mankind] are assending sons of God
[that First Source and Universe Center]
thus we are all sons[brothers] of the same Father if you will.
Our arguments arise out the expression of the evolution of our concepts,
as they are revealed to us.
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9/28/2009 10:38:39 AM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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succeeder
Annapolis, MD
age: 22
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eader]Quote from okie20:
As A Christian I have been taught not to judge others. Most Christian churches today are not preaching the true gospel of Christ. Prayer for ourselves and others is the best recourse. Paul's gospel was inspired of God.[/quote
I'm sorry , but I don't agree that any written word is any more inspired than any other .
If you want inspiration see , smell , hear , feel the mountains , the oceans , and all the inspiration nature (god) has to offer .
Enjoy...
how can you say most christian churches are not preaching the true gospel of Christ? how many christian churches have you been to?
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9/28/2009 11:11:37 AM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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succeeder
Annapolis, MD
age: 22
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I believe the gospel is... the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand
ie the Spirit of the First Source and Center of all things
coming to reside in the hearts of Men
...and the fact that we[mankind] are assending sons of God
[that First Source and Universe Center]
thus we are all sons[brothers] of the same Father if you will.
Our arguments arise out the expression of the evolution of our concepts,
as they are revealed to us.
hmmmm! see i though the gospel of christ is that he was 100% man born of man (matthew 1:16) and 100% God (matthew 3:16-17) and lived a sinless life (hebrews 4: 15) and that He came to die for our sins (1 peter 2:24) and rose again in 3 days (mark 8:31) and is now in Heaven (mark 16:19). And He did all of this because He loves us every last one of us (john 3:16).
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9/28/2009 2:21:38 PM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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idphionix
Boise, ID
age: 70
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Not certain whom you are addressing your question about how many Christian Churches they have been to but I will answer for me quite a few. Assembly of God, Evangelical Free, Episcopal, African Methodist Episcopal, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Catholic, Treasure Valley Bible Church. In fact I was affiliated with a Benedictine Monastery for a year. I have had formal training in the Episcopal and Catholic Church. I also have studied The Holy Order Of M.A.N.S., Rosicrucians. and Conservative Judaism. Currently I attend the the Unitarian Universalist Fellowship and practice Wicca. I guess that gives me a little first hand experience with Christian and other religions.
PS. off topic Thank You for your service to Our Country
[Edited 9/28/2009 2:23:07 PM ]
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9/28/2009 2:22:23 PM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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4evr6y
Lyndeborough, NH
age: 68
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Quote from 4evr6y:
Our arguments arise out the expression of the evolution of our concepts,
as they are revealed to us.
----------------
hmmmm! see i though the gospel of christ is that he was 100% man born of man (matthew 1:16) and 100% God (matthew 3:16-17) and lived a sinless life (hebrews 4: 15) and that He came to die for our sins (1 peter 2:24) and rose again in 3 days (mark 8:31) and is now in Heaven (mark 16:19). And He did all of this because He loves us every last one of us (john 3:16).
Yes my brother i agree with most of what you quote,
I just thought of the gospel as the good news
that through Him we have eternal life...
But...
there are no rules or confessions that need to be made.
I believe Jesus is Lord and in the afterworld we will
realize it...and will be able to continue on if we desire.
I don't believe His blood was [or needed to be] shed for the forgiveness of our sins.
Our sins are forgiven as we understand them and repent.
Even if we don't repent [God] loves us and
there is no hell, but that of doctrinal bondage.
The good news is we are truly Loved by our Creator without[fine print]
The bible says very little about Christ, so it is hard to know just what Jesus taught.
And when you mix in the other [primitive and racial]writings [however inspired]
it's hard to make sense of it all.jmo
[Edited 9/28/2009 2:31:25 PM ]
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10/5/2009 1:09:10 PM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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succeeder
Annapolis, MD
age: 22
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Your wasting your time here .
wait a min. i was asking a question trying to understand the comment that was made. not to start an argument. i don't argue! so if you did not know the answer to the question then you should have just said that you don't know, not type some smart mouth sarcastic comment.
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10/5/2009 1:59:29 PM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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wolfyhp
Atascadero, CA
age: 37
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Not certain whom you are addressing your question about how many Christian Churches they have been to but I will answer for me quite a few. Assembly of God, Evangelical Free, Episcopal, African Methodist Episcopal, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Catholic, Treasure Valley Bible Church. In fact I was affiliated with a Benedictine Monastery for a year. I have had formal training in the Episcopal and Catholic Church. I also have studied The Holy Order Of M.A.N.S., Rosicrucians. and Conservative Judaism. Currently I attend the the Unitarian Universalist Fellowship and practice Wicca. I guess that gives me a little first hand experience with Christian and other religions.
PS. off topic Thank You for your service to Our Country
How similar to my story, but I guess it's similar for a lot of UU's.
I've been Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, First Baptist (American Baptist), Conservative Baptist, Southern Baptist, Assemblies of God, Open Bible (another pentecostal denomination, through which I was in school to be a minister), Messianic Jewish (not Jewish by blood) and even LDS (Mormon.) Now, I'm Unitarian Universalist with pagan leanings. (I'm a high priest in a mystery tradition which many would classify as pagan. We don't tend to classify ourselves as anything other than who we are as individuals.) I am a member of the UU fellowship two cities south of me, but I don't get there often anymore because of the distance.
All of that said, I found that the LDS tried to teach a lot of Yeshua's true gospel of love, but even they often strayed way too far into politics and pharisee-like thinking. The First Baptist church I attended was pretty good until the Rev. Lou Sheldon from the Traditional Values Coalition visited and turned our pastor into a raving lunatic of a political machine.
So, no, most Christian churches I've been to have not been preaching the true gospel of Christ. The list doesn't even include churches I visited a few times but never went back. Most preach about the legalism and politics (both internal and secular politics) and hardly mention how you should treat one another or how you should feel about one another. They completely miss the heart of Yeshua's message. The only time they bring up compassion for others is when they turn it into a plea to give the church more money. Then I didn't see most of these churches (with some exceptions) do anything to give back to the poor and troubled in the community.
The exceptions were the First Baptist church which did have an active, good food closet and clothing closet in a very run-down neighborhood and which did hold regular dinners for the homeless and hungry in our community, regardless of religion. The LDS do have a Bishop's storehouse which feeds individual Mormons and Mormon families who have fallen on hard times and they will also help them with furniture and clothing from the LDS owned thrift store chain, Deseret Industries (some of it is new and built at the stores. I used to build some of their furniture.) However, they only help other LDS and the rest of the world be damned.
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10/5/2009 4:21:36 PM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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nonstandard
York, PA
age: 48
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wait a min. i was asking a question trying to understand the comment that was made. not to start an argument. i don't argue! so if you did not know the answer to the question then you should have just said that you don't know, not type some smart mouth sarcastic comment.
No malice intended , I'm a nobody , not worth your effort . Sorry
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11/21/2009 11:03:40 PM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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atropinerocker
Springfield, MA
age: 22
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I agree with idphionix's response I am I wiccan. Christians do not follow the teachings of God, they rather bash others (like myself) for having different beliefs. I don't use the N word, nor sleep with married men but obviously becoming one with nature and doing "white magic" is a sin? I come to realize christians are the most judgemental, two face, hypocrites. Not saying all christians are but the ones in my area are, instead of explaining the teachings in the bible they rather bash your beliefs, instead of asking why do you follow as a wiccan and not a christian, etc. P.s don't know why christians bash wiccans because don't they have/ do rituals?
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11/24/2009 8:08:41 AM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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woodsmamma
Winton, MN
age: 57
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I agree with idphionix's response I am I wiccan. Christians do not follow the teachings of God, they rather bash others (like myself) for having different beliefs. I don't use the N word, nor sleep with married men but obviously becoming one with nature and doing "white magic" is a sin? I come to realize christians are the most judgemental, two face, hypocrites. Not saying all christians are but the ones in my area are, instead of explaining the teachings in the bible they rather bash your beliefs, instead of asking why do you follow as a wiccan and not a christian, etc. P.s don't know why christians bash wiccans because don't they have/ do rituals?
It's frightening for some who are used to letting the middle man interceed for them ,
when all the time they had the personal power themselves to relate directly with
God/Goddess, or deity as they perceive.The unknown is the scariest thing out there for some.
They've been brainwashed into believing humans, and not to look inward to find the answers, as they are all there!
The most liberating thing I've ever experienced as a woman, and a spiritual being was to discover from being led, that I am the one who takes personal responsibility for my spiritual growth and everything else I do, and to live and let live ,do what you will and harm none!
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12/14/2009 7:30:18 PM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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suzukiridergirl
Cleveland, GA
age: 49
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This is a very interesting topic with some great posts here!
I hope some will continue to post...I'm really enjoying this!
I dont think most churches know how to teach about Jesus and (I dont mean to sound arrogant,just being honest),but I seriously wonder if they know who he is!....but,in the bible it says the holy spirit will teach you and you now need no man to teach you!
That's what I keep coming back to every time I go to a church which is extememely rare now.
I'd much rather read this topic than to go to a man made church.
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12/16/2009 7:31:56 AM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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yogamomma
Hudson, NC
age: 33
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I agree with you suzukiridergirl in that I think many Christians perceive him as no more than the hero of a storybook and, in doing so, don't give him nearly the credit he deserves.
I feel pretty confident saying this because I was raised Christian, attended Christian school for a number of years and questioned everything every step of the way to the point that they moved me out of children's Bible school and into the adult class when I was somewhere around 11. I was told many times not to question so much and just to put my faith in Jesus and he would take the doubt out of my heart, that it was just Satan trying to turn me against him. Of course, that meant absolutely nothing to a child who was inquisitive by nature. I think the last question I ever asked was during a school church service when I leaned over to question something the preacher had said to the teacher and, at the end of the day, I had to stand in line for a paddling for talking during service.
I even doubted the existence of Jesus but I wanted him to be real more than anything. I wanted to believe I was not alone. Whenever I was scared at night, I would close my eyes and try to envision that Jesus was beside me and protecting me. I prayed for sometimes a half hour at night begging Jesus to not let anyone I love die. I also would sleep with a Bible under my pillow to keep my nightmares away. I also doubted the existence of Heaven but I HAD to believe that if I could make everyone I love be good then we could be in Heaven together forever. Basically, I turned to Christianity when I needed comfort and reassurance. I see the same traits in my 12 year old niece who is being raised Christian. Story book faith that everything in the world makes perfect sense but faith that is very fragile as well.I've also witnessed this childlike mentality towards Christianity in a lot of drug addicts, alcoholics, etc. later in life. They turn to Jesus when they are at their weakest because they are desperate to be healed and try to unburden themselves on Jesus. More times than not, this never lasts. I can't help but wonder what would happen if churches spent more time teaching children that their body is a temple how much more functional, healthier, and less in debt we could be as a nation.
On the flip side, I witnessed many of my peers who I attended church with all those years, grow out of the "fairy tale" stage of Christianity right into the "blind faith" stage. Now, don't get me wrong, I am not at all saying that all Christians have blind faith but I believe many do. If one does not take the time to study their religion extensively and base their beliefs on what they feel in their heart after assessing all the facts, what is it other than blind faith? The key to blind faith is to get them while they are young. Look at cults and terrorist groups. That's how they accomplish this. Plant the seed when they're young, water it every day, anialate any doubt with fear of damnation. Warn them against the secular world. And, voila!, you grow a garden of soldiers who are regurgitating what the people who they respecting and blindly trusted growing up presented to them as fact. THAT is why there is so much judgement, bigotry and unChristlike behavior in Christianity because Christ is not truly in their hearts. I have always referred to this as the "Guilty Christian Condition". Christian by default out of fear of eternal hellfire. I know because I lived it! I wasn't always a good person and I always felt like a hypocrit but it's because I was trying to live my life by a set of rules instead of a strong sense of right and wrong sown into my soul with the idea that I should be this way simply because it was right.
When I finally became, what I perceive to be, enlightened and realized that I didn't believe a large portion of most everything I had been taught I was set free to see what I really did believe. And I don't have all the answers yet but I no longer look at Jesus the same way. I don't see him as the martyr son of God. I rather see him as an amazing man who left so many valuable lessons for us and, just like everything else man has touched, his good name has been twisted and abused for personal gain. I believe the church hijacked Jesus' street cred and a few men corrupted it for personal gain. And, in doing so, did a huge disservice to mankind.
All this being said, I am by no means judging Christians. We are a sum of our experiences and I would rather be in a dark alley with a Christian running on blind faith than a man with no moral compass and no religion to give him a synthetic one. And, again, I'm not saying ALL Christians are running on blind faith. Some have truly searched their Bible, minds and hearts and decided that Christianity was their method of finding God and I respect this very much. You can always tell who these people are because they generally DO lead a Christlike life and don't pass judgement on others very often.
.....but I obviously don't really have a lot to say about this topic....
[Edited 12/16/2009 8:01:44 AM ]
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12/16/2009 8:24:57 PM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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suzukiridergirl
Cleveland, GA
age: 49
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Very interesting!Thanks for all the info!
I personally see no point in going to a man made church ,especially when a relationship with Jesus does not depend on any other man.(Thank God!)
As some have said,all you need to know is within you once you are open to truly knowing.
Yet I have never heard this before in a (man made) church!!
That,among other things, makes me very leary of them anyway.
Basically man made church's ,or the ones I've been to,which are quite a few,believe in the law and trying to be good and judging alot....and that's another whole story!
They dont even acknowledge that the truth is written already in your heart.(Very personally)
And its not something you try to do...you just naturally know the truth and what to do,if you follow your heart.
Basically if (man made)church's knew the truth they wouldnt be so confusing.Its something pretty simple that they make so complicated.
I believe the real church is in your own heart.
Where it should be
I'd also rather be in nature than in a man made church building.
Seems more real to me,and more inspirational
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12/18/2009 5:38:25 AM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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believetheword
Rural Retreat, VA
age: 58
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I really like this thread. I agree with the ones that said that the law is written on our hearts. I know the Bible says that we are to forsake not the gathering together of ourselves, but it hard finding a group of people that even believe the same. My dad was a pastor so I grew up in a simple Memorial Christian Church, but he took the family to different denominational churches from time to time. Including a Catholic church. My sister was a Mormon. I have, since I have grown up gone to many different churches and for the past 10 or so years I haven't attended any churches.
Everyone teaches different things and to do that is to put ourselves in confusion. They all use different bibles that say different things. But I did notice before I stopped going to different churches that they were all leaning towards one particular doctrine that, IMO is false. I read my Bible, study at home and pray and ask for guidance. Here in the last year I have had several different religions to try to convince me that their religion was right. Mormon and SDA being two of them.
I just simple believe that God is our creator, He sent His only begotten Son, (Jesus) to die for the sin of the world and He rose on the third day and is now seated at the right hand of God waiting for the Father to tell Him to come get His people. I do believe God was manifest in the flesh as Jesus and He walked among the people on this earth. I do believe that the Holy Spirit does teach us all things if we will listen and allow Him to speak to us. I'm not saying that I have always listened. I just know that IF I sin I can go to Jesus and ask for that forgiveness and I know He is just and faithful to forgive me as long as I am sincere in my repentance. And I do believe we are to be obedient to the Father.
Blessings to all
Char
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12/18/2009 3:07:54 PM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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zeddy603
New South Wales
Australia
age: 53
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Hi
For me Christian by nature rather than in name only has been the direction to follow.
I love the Good Samaritan parable in that it isn't about being seen to be rightous but in feeling the pain of others.
Christians do it right sometimes and in the next breath fall down....just like me!!!!
Zeddy
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12/19/2009 1:38:54 PM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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suzukiridergirl
Cleveland, GA
age: 49
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As I've quoted before "Ego is so complicated and Love is so simple"
I think alot of man made churches are just full of unnecessary excuses...maybe moreso than the unsaved.
Unknown to alot of them,Jesus was not religious! But the ego is!
Afterall,its in the bible.
I mainly dont like the fact that they use the name of God to confuse others.
Just my thoughts today.
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12/26/2009 7:56:55 PM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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idphionix
Boise, ID
age: 70
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I also believe there has been some excellent posts to my thread. Most have been courteous and well spoken. Keep up the good work and thanks for your posts
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1/21/2010 8:35:41 PM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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chat_girl
Desoto, TX
age: 48
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1/22/2010 7:48:29 PM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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thanatos1369
Urbana, IL
age: 37
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Born into a Jewish family, I have a varied experience about Christianity. Growing up, my mother told me if I wanted to believe in something, to study all religions that I had any interest in. I studied Christianity, Mormonism, Presbyterian, Hindi, Islam, even Jehovah's Witness, and found they all pretty much said the same thing, in different languages.
But the one thing I did learn about Christianity is what they lost along the way. Jesus Christ was an amazing Jewish man, had a beautiful message for his followers, and willingly gave himself up to the people who didn't believe in him being all about Love. Love Thyself, Love Thy Neighbor, and Love Thy Family and Friends. Do Unto Others As You Would Have Done Unto Thyself. Somewhere along the way, Christians lost that message. They are too busy trying to convert all those who do not believe in their way into believing if they don't believe in God and give their hearts to God, they are going to Hell.
Now if you take into account how many different versions of Christianity and Catholicism there are, how can you really be sure you are believing the right one? What's more, I believe that we are in control of our own lives, our own fates, and everything we do has both an immediate and lasting effect on our lives.
The Church saw this new religion the newest and best way to make money, hand over fist. In our country, all religious donations to any church are tax-free. All the money given in donations are either put in the coffers of the clergy, who drive around in Mercedes-Benzes, Hummers, Lincoln Continentals, and other really fancy cars. The money is also used to build a church extension, to draw in more people who want to believe what the priest is telling them by his reading of Bible verses.
Each person who reads the Bible on their own will come away with a new message, every time they read it. But the usual issue is that people only read a verse here, a verse there, and expect to manipulate it to enforce what message they are trying to project. I have read the Bible from front to back, and it is an amazing story, but to me, that is all it is, a story.
In all my studying, I came across Wicca myself, and when I looked into it a little deeper, I found something that actually made sense to me. Wicca members don't even try to convert people to their beliefs, but if we are asked what Wicca means, we are willing to share our own information, admitting up front that there is a uniquity to a religion that doesn't have any set rules, aside from a simple statement, "An It Harm None, Do What Ye Will." Looks like the 10 Commandments in one simple phrase
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1/22/2010 10:12:10 PM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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chat_girl
Desoto, TX
age: 48
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satan comes as an angel of light to decieve.. He tells you what you want to hear... Did you know satanism is summed up with this do as thou wilt..
well look at the world around you this world that teaches there are no right or wrong.. more and more evil is abounding more crime than ever before it is because society doesn't want God.. Look what happened when they took him out of the schools..
yes Jesus is about Love.. But more importantly he was about his Father's business.He came to set the captives free..The jewish people ( that he actually Came for ) rejected him.. So he said who so ever would come..
Jesus said whosoever believeth on me would not perish (in hell) but have everlasting life ( in heaven).. Jesus also said .. " I am the way the truth and the life no man comes to the father except he come through me" Hell was never intended for man kind.. It was intended for satan and his demons.. but if humans reject his sacrafice then they are sentencing themselves to hell.. to say you don't need salvation says that Christ died for nothing.. wich means you are making his death as nothing.. Wich also makes you an enemy of God By choice..
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1/23/2010 3:52:54 PM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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nvr4gttn
Yelm, WA
age: 48
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well said chat_girl...
I agree with you!!!
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1/24/2010 12:10:29 AM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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wolfyhp
Atascadero, CA
age: 37
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satan comes as an angel of light to decieve.. He tells you what you want to hear... Did you know satanism is summed up with this do as thou wilt..
well look at the world around you this world that teaches there are no right or wrong.. more and more evil is abounding more crime than ever before it is because society doesn't want God.. Look what happened when they took him out of the schools..
yes Jesus is about Love.. But more importantly he was about his Father's business.He came to set the captives free..The jewish people ( that he actually Came for ) rejected him.. So he said who so ever would come..
Jesus said whosoever believeth on me would not perish (in hell) but have everlasting life ( in heaven).. Jesus also said .. " I am the way the truth and the life no man comes to the father except he come through me" Hell was never intended for man kind.. It was intended for satan and his demons.. but if humans reject his sacrafice then they are sentencing themselves to hell.. to say you don't need salvation says that Christ died for nothing.. wich means you are making his death as nothing.. Wich also makes you an enemy of God By choice..
So, Gentiles were his backup plan? Not worthy of his love except that the Jews rejected him and he needed someone? Doesn't sound like he really had much love for the Gentiles when you put it that way.
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1/24/2010 9:04:34 AM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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southernviking
El Cajon, CA
age: 38
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satan comes as an angel of light to decieve.. He tells you what you want to hear... Did you know satanism is summed up with this do as thou wilt..
well look at the world around you this world that teaches there are no right or wrong.. more and more evil is abounding more crime than ever before it is because society doesn't want God.. Look what happened when they took him out of the schools..
yes Jesus is about Love.. But more importantly he was about his Father's business.He came to set the captives free..The jewish people ( that he actually Came for ) rejected him.. So he said who so ever would come..
Jesus said whosoever believeth on me would not perish (in hell) but have everlasting life ( in heaven).. Jesus also said .. " I am the way the truth and the life no man comes to the father except he come through me" Hell was never intended for man kind.. It was intended for satan and his demons.. but if humans reject his sacrafice then they are sentencing themselves to hell.. to say you don't need salvation says that Christ died for nothing.. wich means you are making his death as nothing.. Wich also makes you an enemy of God By choice..
do as thou wilt never herd of that other than the wiccan read which sais "harm ye none do what ye will" which does not seem like a bad thing to me
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1/24/2010 10:44:37 AM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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mr_crowley
Aynor, SC
age: 42
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"DO WHAT THOU WILT, SHALL BE THE WHOLE OF THE LAW", is actually what you meant to quote.
That is the great profit and master Aleister Crowleys one commandment.
There's only one sin in Satanism, as well and that's ignorance.
The sad thing is your lumping Satanists into one group. When there's just as many, if not more, sects in Satanism as there are in christianity.
What's really funny is few of them believe in any deities.
Instead they view the bible and all its mythical characters as symbolic like the gnostics do.
Why would christians in the "other religions" forum, claim to follow jesus' teachings anyway?
They're in the "other religions" forum for a reason.
1 they're doubting their beliefs and looking for "other" answers.
2 they're preaching to people who don't wan5 to hear their hypocritical crap. When the bible clearly states jesus was against that.
Either way they're not following jesus' teachings.
DER MENSCH IST GOTT
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1/25/2010 7:25:24 AM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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chat_girl
Desoto, TX
age: 48
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Actually I am not one to run from anything.. I am very militant in my faith.. I go where the need is.. The christian forum becomes a bless me club.. but as christians Our purpose is to grow the Kingdom of God... God wants us to go where he is needed.. The time is drawing to a close quickly and It is God's desire that no body should perish but that ALL should come to the saving knowledge of Jesus christ!!
father I pray in the Name Of Almighty Jesus!! that you remove the blinders from mr crowly's eyes to see that the thing he worships is deceiving him.. Satan's #1 goal is to deceive.. so as to bring them to hell with him.. He knows his end IS the lake of fire..and once they are there he will laugh them to scorn..
The Demons he THINKS he controls will be the very ones that will drag him to hell.And they WILL have a right to it.. satan WAS an angel that was cast out of heaven for rebellion.. The bible says He comes as an angel of light to deceive.. I pray In the NAME OF JESUS that you prepare mr crowly's heart for the perfect laborer.. I pray that you send forth that laborer to minister salvation,,repentance,,and deliverance..into Mr. Crowly's life.. I pray that that seed planted will spring forth in abundant fruit and that he will come out of the darkness that Satan has held him captive.. and into the truth and light of jesus Christ!!!
I praise you Jesus for the sacrafice on the cross for our salvation.. you went to Hell and took the keys of death hell and the grave from Satan himself.. and was resurrected on the third day and NOW!!! set at the right Hand of the father making daily intercession for us all...HOLY IS THE LORD AND WORTHY OF PRAISE!!!
EVERY knee shall bow and EVERY tounge shall confess that JESUS CHRIST is LORD!!!
[Edited 1/25/2010 7:30:00 AM ]
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1/25/2010 9:36:22 AM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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wolfyhp
Atascadero, CA
age: 37
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Actually I am not one to run from anything.. I am very militant in my faith.. I go where the need is.. The christian forum becomes a bless me club.. but as christians Our purpose is to grow the Kingdom of God... God wants us to go where he is needed.. The time is drawing to a close quickly and It is God's desire that no body should perish but that ALL should come to the saving knowledge of Jesus christ!!
father I pray in the Name Of Almighty Jesus!! that you remove the blinders from mr crowly's eyes to see that the thing he worships is deceiving him.. Satan's #1 goal is to deceive.. so as to bring them to hell with him.. He knows his end IS the lake of fire..and once they are there he will laugh them to scorn..
The Demons he THINKS he controls will be the very ones that will drag him to hell.And they WILL have a right to it.. satan WAS an angel that was cast out of heaven for rebellion.. The bible says He comes as an angel of light to deceive.. I pray In the NAME OF JESUS that you prepare mr crowly's heart for the perfect laborer.. I pray that you send forth that laborer to minister salvation,,repentance,,and deliverance..into Mr. Crowly's life.. I pray that that seed planted will spring forth in abundant fruit and that he will come out of the darkness that Satan has held him captive.. and into the truth and light of jesus Christ!!!
I praise you Jesus for the sacrafice on the cross for our salvation.. you went to Hell and took the keys of death hell and the grave from Satan himself.. and was resurrected on the third day and NOW!!! set at the right Hand of the father making daily intercession for us all...HOLY IS THE LORD AND WORTHY OF PRAISE!!!
EVERY knee shall bow and EVERY tounge shall confess that JESUS CHRIST is LORD!!!
Awww, how sweet for you to pray for him. I'm so sure he appreciates it. (probably not. Maybe he appreciates the thought behind it...)
I'll keep praying for YOU to have more wisdom and a more open heart as well. (Not being cynical, I take prayer very seriously.)
Rev. Daniel
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1/25/2010 10:23:36 AM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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mr_crowley
Aynor, SC
age: 42
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Hypocrite lady,
I hope you choke on the religious vomit you spew AGAINST jesus' command to NOT preach to those who don't want to here all your mythical beliefs.
DER MENSCH IST GOTT
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1/25/2010 11:26:18 AM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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wyntrtyger
Tucson, AZ
age: 32
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Actually I am not one to run from anything.. I am very militant in my faith.. I go where the need is.. The christian forum becomes a bless me club.. but as christians Our purpose is to grow the Kingdom of God... God wants us to go where he is needed.. The time is drawing to a close quickly and It is God's desire that no body should perish but that ALL should come to the saving knowledge of Jesus christ!!
I may be wrong, but isn't zealotry generally frowned upon by most of christianity in the current era? Wasn't it such a blindly militant following of the 'Word of God', manipulated by those preaching it to the masses, that resulted in the Crusades, the book-burnings, the witch hunts?
If, as christians, your purpose is to go where He is needed, then rather than spreading words, why not spread their meaning? If God, to you, is Love, Compassion, and Life, then go out and spread that... Volunteer. Become a missionary. Teach through example, not by wrote. Words are misleading, ESPECIALLY in a world, as you suggest, which is in your Satan's grasp. Teach understanding and love by Being understanding and loving, rather than judgmental and condescending. We here are not Sheep who have wandered from the fold, rather we have found our own path to living. We are not in an age which easilly suffers being beaten over the head with a Book when we have it in our minds that, while we may not be right, nor are we neccessarily wrong.
I have heard it said that to live a christian life, one strives to be Christ-like, to be as he was. He taught lessons of compassion, of saccrifice, of redemption, in a way that was comprehensible to the people of his time... so too shouldn't those who have come since? To the OP question on whether Christians follow Jesus' teachings? I say, sadly, I do not believe they do... but look forward to seeing it within my own lifetime.
Namaste
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1/25/2010 1:18:51 PM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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mr_crowley
Aynor, SC
age: 42
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I may be wrong, but isn't zealotry generally frowned upon by most of christianity in the current era? Wasn't it such a blindly militant following of the 'Word of God', manipulated by those preaching it to the masses, that resulted in the Crusades, the book-burnings, the witch hunts?
If, as christians, your purpose is to go where He is needed, then rather than spreading words, why not spread their meaning? If God, to you, is Love, Compassion, and Life, then go out and spread that... Volunteer. Become a missionary. Teach through example, not by wrote. Words are misleading, ESPECIALLY in a world, as you suggest, which is in your Satan's grasp. Teach understanding and love by Being understanding and loving, rather than judgmental and condescending. We here are not Sheep who have wandered from the fold, rather we have found our own path to living. We are not in an age which easilly suffers being beaten over the head with a Book when we have it in our minds that, while we may not be right, nor are we neccessarily wrong.
I have heard it said that to live a christian life, one strives to be Christ-like, to be as he was. He taught lessons of compassion, of saccrifice, of redemption, in a way that was comprehensible to the people of his time... so too shouldn't those who have come since? To the OP question on whether Christians follow Jesus' teachings? I say, sadly, I do not believe they do... but look forward to seeing it within my own lifetime.
Namaste
Well said, its sad how many don't understand the bible they base their beliefs on and just spew ignorance, instead of the bibles teachings.
Its kinda strange, to that christians are the only group who proselytize, rather then focus on their own beliefs.
To me that spells out I-N-S-E-C-U-R-I-T-Y and W-E-A-K-N-E-S-S
DO WHAT THOU WILT SHALL BE THE WHOLE OF THE LAW
DER MENSCH IST GOTT
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1/25/2010 4:53:27 PM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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mr_crowley
Aynor, SC
age: 42
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This post comes from someone in another forum, who truly displays the message of the bible.
True Christians are not bigots nor do they demean anyone - at least they're not supposed to. The Bible actually commands them not to be thus. Pride - even in the belief of your religion is a sin. To be prideful in who you are or what you believe is an affront to God. The Bible also tells us that pride goeth before destruction. In it's truest form the christian should have no pride in themself nor their faith. When we commit this sin we have placed ourselves and our personal beliefs ahead of God. We are supposed to remove ourselves entirely from the equation and make of ourselves humble servants so that he may work through us.
Many people misinterpret or read into things that which they wish to see. My opinion is that when Jesus said that "No man cometh unto the father except by me", he was telling those of us who chose Christianity as our faith that the path to God led through him and our acceptance of him as the son of God and of his sacrifice for us so that whomever chose to believe might be cleansed of sin.
There's a really good book which I think provides considerable enlightenment on Christianity and the Bible. It's called "The Deadliest Monster" by J.F. Baldwin. Give it a read. I'm sure you'll find it fascinating.
I have many friends with different belief systems. I think that everyone has the right to choose his or her path through life and that whatever works for them is right for them. I do think that the most important thing is that everyone should have a strong spiritual component to themselves and their life for balance. However as I am fond of telling my athestic friends since I believe that all things serve God, even those who do not are fulfilling his purpose for them!
DER MENSCH IST GOTT
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1/31/2010 8:44:44 AM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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idphionix
Boise, ID
age: 70
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People lets keep to the topic, Christians save your preaching and conversion to other threads. Others do likewise. I do have the power to block and have done so on occasion. The topic least we forget is "Do Christians follow Jesus teachings"
not whether "Do as you will" is Satanist or not. It's not. Common mistake witches and Satanist are not the same. Two different religions. "Harm none and do as you will" is the full quote. The one prior is a good reason to follow it . The one prior says "Whatsoever you send out; Returnth three fold"
NO Flaming. NO BASHING/Preaching Christian or otherwise.
[Edited 1/31/2010 8:55:21 AM ]
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2/1/2010 1:16:43 PM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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mzvodka
Houston, TX
age: 19
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lmao. old people always wanna block everyone.
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2/1/2010 4:26:36 PM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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idphionix
Boise, ID
age: 70
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I block spareingly. I have belonged to DH for going on three years during that time I have blocked four times. Once early inthis thread for foul language. Some of the previous posts I felt were off topic and arguementive. I felt I needed to post a warning which is my responibility as the OP.
As for old people I pleade guilty. I do take exception to the always wanting to block. Your opinion is noted but there is a vast differance in age. That said I am the OP ( and we are both off topic)
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3/3/2010 9:12:04 AM |
Do Christian follow Jesus' teachings? |
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rhodora
Queen Creek, AZ
age: 34
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Nice...
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