A Passage From Josephus

1/4/2013 6:40:22 PM	A Passage From Josephus
tomdl56 Lebanon, PA 61, joined Sep. 2012	JOSEPHUS 37 B.C. - A.D. 70 (The Christian Library, Barbour) The passage I'm about to quote is from page 222-223. ------- "THE FAMINE The number perishing from famine continued to grow daily; war broke out over every piece of available food. The people's hunger was so great they were forced to chew anything they could find - belts, shoes, the leather from their shields, wisps of old hay. A certain wealthy woman named Mary had fled to Jerusalem earlier during the war. Her father was Eleazar, from the village of Bathezub, which means 'the house of hyssop.' Everything she had brought with her from Perea had been stolen from her; now it was impossible for her to obtain even a scrap of food. In despair, Mary took up her infant son, who she felt had no future except that of a slave, and killed him. She then proceeded to roast him and eat half of his body, hiding away the rest. Smelling the meat cooking, some robbers came into her house to demand it from her. When she offered what was left to the robbers, they backed away in horror. She taunted them for being weaklings who couldn't bring themselves to do what a woman had done. Word of Mary's actions spread throughout Jerusalem, horrifying everyone in the city and making many wish they were already dead so they wouldn't know of these horrid deeds." ------- That is just one such passage from this book. Jesus told his disciples about Jerusalem surrounded by armies. It happened. It's written in history. He warned them to flee Judea. And what happened in Jerusalem in those days, I dare say are incomparable in all history. The signs of the end that the disciples asked Jesus for have been fulfilled. The armies surrounding the city. The destruction of the temple. How than can anyone say with any credibility that Jesus is still now waiting to return. All the prophecies of Christ leading up to His return have been fulfulled. All you need to find that out is to read a little history. Meet singles at DateHookup.dating, we're 100% free! Join now!
1/4/2013 7:02:14 PM	A Passage From Josephus
tomdl56 Lebanon, PA 61, joined Sep. 2012	Quote from jimschool: God's chosen nation is spiritual in nature, as it says "the just shall live by faith"". God's chosen nation therefore has nothing to do with genealogy. God's chosen nation was taken into the Kingdom of Heaven, in 70ad, at the end of '''this generation'''(30-70ad). Today Isaiah 9:7 is at work Isaiah 9:7 Of the increase of [his] government and peace [there shall be] no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this. Since 70ad, Christ has been sitting on the throne of David in Heaven, and he said in John 18;36, my Kingdom is '''''not''''' of this world. ''''This world''' is the visible world we live in There is no such thing as any unconditional gospel, because God gave man a free will to choose, as we read in Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: All those that choose life are part of the great Abrahamic nation, regardless of their bloodline. The 1948 state of Israel has nothing to do with any Bible Prophecy, because not one literal stone was left upon another in 70ad. The second coming still required literal stones to be throne down as evidence, just like the literal stone had to be rolled away as evidence of the empty tomb. All true Christian faith is based on the reality of the 30ad empty tomb, and the 70ad empty temple. This is the only way that we can become children of Abraham. No rational bible student would dare refute, the 30-70ad '''this generation''' fulfillment of all Bible Prophecy. Well said, brother. Nice to meet you.
1/5/2013 1:48:33 PM	A Passage From Josephus
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 64, joined Feb. 2008	Jesus is often described as the "Divine Prophet". And He is. What did He prophesy? Among other things, He prophesied that Jerusalem would be destroyed by the Romans before the present [Jesus'] generation ended, and that the Temple would be destroyed, and He prophesied that He would return on clouds of glory one day. He also prophesied that He would stay with His Church (the Catholic Church, of course, the only one He founded, all other churches being man-made and therefore false). As Tom has related, Jesus' prophecy that Jerusalem would be destroyed within the generation came true. In a.d. 70, the Romans really did a number on Jerusalem, destroying the Temple, all but what is now called the Wailing Wall, and dispersed the Jews throughout the Roman Empire. But Jesus propecy to return on clouds of glory has not been fulfilled yet. Jesus has stayed with the Church for all these years, during good times and bad, true, but that propecy is an ongoing prophecy, you might say.
1/6/2013 2:05:11 PM	A Passage From Josephus
tomdl56 Lebanon, PA 61, joined Sep. 2012	Quote from jimschool: A few years ago I began to question the conclusions of Classical (Darby) Dispensationalism. I questioned why, if Israels "program" had been temporarily "suspended", did Paul (quoting Moses) say that gentile salvation was given to make unbelieving Israel jealous? Jealous of what?? Surely not the Church which, according to Darbyism, has no stake in anything promised to Israel. Why, if the Church itself is never mentioned in any way in the Old Testament, do the Apostles refer to the Old Testament so many times in the New? Why, if the New Covenant to Israel is not to be initiated until after the second coming of Christ, did Jesus, Paul, and the writer of Hebrews, all mention it in the context of the ministry of the Church to Israel? Why does God apparently have multiple means of salvation, one for the unbelieving Jew, and one for the Church? Why, if Jesus has broken down the middle wall of partition between us (Jews and Gentiles) are there yet divisions in the New Testament, two gospel messages, some books for the Jewish believers, and some for the Gentiles. These are some of the basic questions which I sought to answer, and did. And then I found out that others had already blazed a trail ahead of me some years earlier, asking the same questions, and finding the exact same answers I did. I like the idea that you were willing to question your own beliefs. I've been there. You have obviously spent a great deal of time studying this, and if you are referring to spiritual Israel, I would agree, for physical Israel was destroyed when the temple was destroyed in 70 AD. Our temple now is Christ. I believe the Old Covenant is dead. Hebrews makes that plain. Sorry, this system would not allow the whole quote.
1/6/2013 2:14:52 PM	A Passage From Josephus
tomdl56 Lebanon, PA 61, joined Sep. 2012	Quote from ludlowlowell: Jesus is often described as the "Divine Prophet". And He is. What did He prophesy? Among other things, He prophesied that Jerusalem would be destroyed by the Romans before the present [Jesus'] generation ended, and that the Temple would be destroyed, and He prophesied that He would return on clouds of glory one day. He also prophesied that He would stay with His Church (the Catholic Church, of course, the only one He founded, all other churches being man-made and therefore false). As Tom has related, Jesus' prophecy that Jerusalem would be destroyed within the generation came true. In a.d. 70, the Romans really did a number on Jerusalem, destroying the Temple, all but what is now called the Wailing Wall, and dispersed the Jews throughout the Roman Empire. But Jesus propecy to return on clouds of glory has not been fulfilled yet. Jesus has stayed with the Church for all these years, during good times and bad, true, but that propecy is an ongoing prophecy, you might say. What do you do with Matthew 24.29-31... 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Biblegateway.com Immediately after the tribulation of what days? Obviously the days just described by Jesus. If he hadn't returned in the clouds, then this is a lie. "Immediately" means just that, not thousands of years in the future.
1/8/2013 5:16:39 PM	A Passage From Josephus
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 64, joined Feb. 2008	The New Testament, taken as a whole, is clear: the Antichrist will come one day, persecute the Church far worse than it ever has been prior, then Jesus will return in clouds of glory, something He specifically said He would do (see His crucifiction narrative in Mark). Jesus has come once. But He came to a lowly stable, not on clouds of glory. One day, maybe next week sometime, maybe 75,000 years from now, Jesus will return, as He said.
1/10/2013 4:39:13 PM	A Passage From Josephus
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 64, joined Feb. 2008	Jesus is spiritually in my heart. Actually, as God, Jesus is everywhere, even in Hell (the fires of Hell are merely the flames of His love, experienced by the souls in Hell as burning flames because of their unrepentant sins). But Jesus will return one day in a bodily, visible form, on clouds of glory. All the dead will rise from their graves, and Jesus will hold the General Judgment, putting the sheep on His right and the goats on His left. And this will be the end of time, called in some translations of the Bible the "end of the age".
1/11/2013 11:49:35 PM	A Passage From Josephus
tomdl56 Lebanon, PA 61, joined Sep. 2012	Quote from ludlowlowell: Jesus is spiritually in my heart. Actually, as God, Jesus is everywhere, even in Hell (the fires of Hell are merely the flames of His love, experienced by the souls in Hell as burning flames because of their unrepentant sins). But Jesus will return one day in a bodily, visible form, on clouds of glory. All the dead will rise from their graves, and Jesus will hold the General Judgment, putting the sheep on His right and the goats on His left. And this will be the end of time, called in some translations of the Bible the "end of the age". What do you do with the fact that the signs of the end that the disciples asked Jesus for have been fulfilled. The armies surrounding the city. The destruction of the temple. Is the coming of Christ to be thousands of years later. even though Jesus said, "immediately"?
1/11/2013 11:53:48 PM	A Passage From Josephus
redeamed1 Edmonds, WA 56, joined Jan. 2013	Tom: i have a question, and im just asking not trying to start a fight, just gathering info. You asked Ludlow this: What do you do with Matthew 24.29-31... 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. In vs 31: it says gather them from the 4 winds in heaven? Howd they get to heaven already?
1/13/2013 12:12:43 AM	A Passage From Josephus
tomdl56 Lebanon, PA 61, joined Sep. 2012	Quote from redeamed1: Tom: i have a question, and im just asking not trying to start a fight, just gathering info. You asked Ludlow this: What do you do with Matthew 24.29-31... 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. In vs 31: it says gather them from the 4 winds in heaven? Howd they get to heaven already? It's not 4 winds in heaven, but 4 winds "OF HEAVEN." That is, "of the sky." The 4 winds are the north wind, the south wind, the east wind and the west wind. Hence, it's a directional thing. His elect would be gathered from all four directions.
1/13/2013 9:10:24 AM	A Passage From Josephus
deneez Rochester, MI 57, joined Apr. 2012	As Tom has related, Jesus' prophecy that Jerusalem would be destroyed within the generation came true. In a.d. 70, the Romans really did a number on Jerusalem, destroying the Temple, all but what is now called the Wailing Wall, and dispersed the Jews throughout the Roman Empire. But Jesus propecy to return on clouds of glory has not been fulfilled yet. Jesus has stayed with the Church for all these years, during good times and bad, true, but that propecy is an ongoing prophecy, you might say. ludlow.... good one Lud! Gospel of Matthew 15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. 22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time. 26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather. The Lord drew a distinction for them of the desolation of 70 ad that was to come, and HIS second coming.
1/14/2013 1:44:35 AM	A Passage From Josephus
tomdl56 Lebanon, PA 61, joined Sep. 2012	Quote from ludlowlowell: Jesus is often described as the "Divine Prophet". And He is. What did He prophesy? Among other things, He prophesied that Jerusalem would be destroyed by the Romans before the present [Jesus'] generation ended, and that the Temple would be destroyed, and He prophesied that He would return on clouds of glory one day. He also prophesied that He would stay with His Church (the Catholic Church, of course, the only one He founded, all other churches being man-made and therefore false). As Tom has related, Jesus' prophecy that Jerusalem would be destroyed within the generation came true. In a.d. 70, the Romans really did a number on Jerusalem, destroying the Temple, all but what is now called the Wailing Wall, and dispersed the Jews throughout the Roman Empire. But Jesus propecy to return on clouds of glory has not been fulfilled yet. Jesus has stayed with the Church for all these years, during good times and bad, true, but that propecy is an ongoing prophecy, you might say. And when is this coming in the clouds suppose to happen? Jesus said, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days... and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." So the question to ask is, Immediately after the tribulation of what days?
1/14/2013 8:02:30 AM	A Passage From Josephus
cyrus2 Victoria, BC 56, joined Apr. 2012	Quote from deneez: ludlow.... good one Lud! Gospel of Matthew 15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. 22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time. 26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather. The Lord drew a distinction for them of the desolation of 70 ad that was to come, and HIS second coming. There is no distinction drawn that separates the prophecy into two events. Evidence of this is seen clearly in the other gospels with the warning for the discciples to flee to the mountains. In Luke the warning to flee is clearly told to be when the destruction of Jerusalem is about to happen in AD 70. Now in Matthew the disciples are told to flee when they see the abomination of desolation set up in the temple as God. Futurists claim that the warning to flee is coinciding with His second coming and not at the destruction of Jerusalem, yet Luke makes no distinction of two separate prophetic events. So when are the disciples warned to flee to the mountains? Is it at the destruction of the temple as Luke says, or is it at the distinctive and separate second coming of Matthew's gospel that the futurist claims. You see there is no contradiction in the scripture, but in the futurist theology there are many contradictions. [Edited 1/14/2013 8:05:14 AM ]
1/15/2013 9:27:56 AM	A Passage From Josephus
cyrus2 Victoria, BC 56, joined Apr. 2012	Quote from tomdl56: JOSEPHUS 37 B.C. - A.D. 70 (The Christian Library, Barbour) The passage I'm about to quote is from page 222-223. ------- "THE FAMINE The number perishing from famine continued to grow daily; war broke out over every piece of available food. The people's hunger was so great they were forced to chew anything they could find - belts, shoes, the leather from their shields, wisps of old hay. A certain wealthy woman named Mary had fled to Jerusalem earlier during the war. Her father was Eleazar, from the village of Bathezub, which means 'the house of hyssop.' Everything she had brought with her from Perea had been stolen from her; now it was impossible for her to obtain even a scrap of food. In despair, Mary took up her infant son, who she felt had no future except that of a slave, and killed him. She then proceeded to roast him and eat half of his body, hiding away the rest. Smelling the meat cooking, some robbers came into her house to demand it from her. When she offered what was left to the robbers, they backed away in horror. She taunted them for being weaklings who couldn't bring themselves to do what a woman had done. Word of Mary's actions spread throughout Jerusalem, horrifying everyone in the city and making many wish they were already dead so they wouldn't know of these horrid deeds." ------- That is just one such passage from this book. Jesus told his disciples about Jerusalem surrounded by armies. It happened. It's written in history. He warned them to flee Judea. And what happened in Jerusalem in those days, I dare say are incomparable in all history. The signs of the end that the disciples asked Jesus for have been fulfilled. The armies surrounding the city. The destruction of the temple. How than can anyone say with any credibility that Jesus is still now waiting to return. All the prophecies of Christ leading up to His return have been fulfulled. All you need to find that out is to read a little history. Deuteronomy 28 49 The Lord will bring a nation against you from far away, from the ends of the earth, like an eagle swooping down, a nation whose language you will not understand, 50 a fierce-looking nation without respect for the old or pity for the young. 51 They will devour the young of your livestock and the crops of your land until you are destroyed. They will leave you no grain, new wine or olive oil, nor any calves of your herds or lambs of your flocks until you are ruined. 52 They will lay siege to all the cities throughout your land until the high fortified walls in which you trust fall down. They will besiege all the cities throughout the land the Lord your God is giving you. 53 Because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege, you will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you. 54 Even the most gentle and sensitive man among you will have no compassion on his own brother or the wife he loves or his surviving children, 55 and he will not give to one of them any of the flesh of his children that he is eating. It will be all he has left because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of all your cities. 56 The most gentle and sensitive woman among you—so sensitive and gentle that she would not venture to touch the ground with the sole of her foot—will begrudge the husband she loves and her own son or daughter 57 the afterbirth from her womb and the children she bears. For in her dire need she intends to eat them secretly because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of your cities. Lamentations 4 With their own hands compassionate women have cooked their own children, who became their food when my people were destroyed. 11 The Lord has given full vent to his wrath; he has poured out his fierce anger. He kindled a fire in Zion that consumed her foundations. Ezekiel 5 8 “Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I myself am against you, Jerusalem, and I will inflict punishment on you in the sight of the nations. 9 Because of all your detestable idols, I will do to you what I have never done before and will never do again. 10 Therefore in your midst parents will eat their children, and children will eat their parents. I will inflict punishment on you and will scatter all your survivors to the winds. 11 Therefore as surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, because you have defiled my sanctuary with all your vile images and detestable practices, I myself will shave you; I will not look on you with pity or spare you. 12 A third of your people will die of the plague or perish by famine inside you; a third will fall by the sword outside your walls; and a third I will scatter to the winds and pursue with drawn sword. 13 “Then my anger will cease and my wrath against them will subside, and I will be avenged. And when I have spent my wrath on them, they will know that I the Lord have spoken in my zeal. As Josephus records in his writings, the prophecies of the end of the covenant age and the wrath on Israel was avenged by God.
1/29/2013 2:08:51 PM	A Passage From Josephus
tomdl56 Lebanon, PA 61, joined Sep. 2012	bigd said he'd like to see this, so here it is.
1/29/2013 2:51:29 PM	A Passage From Josephus
share_n_love Fort Wayne, IN 61, joined Dec. 2012	Quote from jimschool: If Jesus is in your heart, how could He also come back? When has EVERY knee bowed and EVERY tongue confess He is Lord? Tom: 53 Because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege, you will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you. 54 Even the most gentle and sensitive man among you will have no compassion on his own brother or the wife he loves or his surviving children, 55 and he will not give to one of them any of the flesh of his children that he is eating. It will be all he has left because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of all your cities. 56 The most gentle and sensitive woman among you—so sensitive and gentle that she would not venture to touch the ground with the sole of her foot—will begrudge the husband she loves and her own son or daughter 57 the afterbirth from her womb and the children she bears. For in her dire need she intends to eat them secretly because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of your cities. Cannibalism is STILL going on. In fact yahoo had an article on this happening in N. Korea recently. [Edited 1/29/2013 2:53:24 PM ]
1/29/2013 4:40:47 PM	A Passage From Josephus
tomdl56 Lebanon, PA 61, joined Sep. 2012	Quote from share_n_love: When has EVERY knee bowed and EVERY tongue confess He is Lord? Tom: 53 Because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege, you will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you. 54 Even the most gentle and sensitive man among you will have no compassion on his own brother or the wife he loves or his surviving children, 55 and he will not give to one of them any of the flesh of his children that he is eating. It will be all he has left because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of all your cities. 56 The most gentle and sensitive woman among you—so sensitive and gentle that she would not venture to touch the ground with the sole of her foot—will begrudge the husband she loves and her own son or daughter 57 the afterbirth from her womb and the children she bears. For in her dire need she intends to eat them secretly because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of your cities. Cannibalism is STILL going on. In fact yahoo had an article on this happening in N. Korea recently. Share, it is very simple. If you had an elementary knowledge of English, you should be able to understand it. In Matthew 24, the disciples came to Jesus privately to ask him about the time of the end. So this was a private conversation between Jesus and his disciples. So when Jesus used the pronoun "you," or in the KJV, "ye," it is obvious that Jesus was directing his comment to those disciples. Now what did he say to those disciples? He told them that they would see various dangers, including the abomination of desolation spoken by Daniel the prophet, when he said there would be great tribulation in Judea. Verse 29 begins with, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days..." Not thousands of years in the future. What he said would happen immediately after those days had to have happened or Jesus lied. It's as simple as that. Can I prove it? No I cannot. All I know is what Jesus said, and I take him at his word. [Edited 1/29/2013 4:41:21 PM ]
1/29/2013 9:31:37 PM	A Passage From Josephus
redeamed1 Edmonds, WA 56, joined Jan. 2013	Quote from jimschool: Why, if the Church itself is never mentioned in any way in the Old Testament, do the Apostles refer to the Old Testament so many times in the New? Why, if the New Covenant to Israel is not to be initiated until after the second coming of Christ, did Jesus, Paul, and the writer of Hebrews, all mention it in the context of the ministry of the Church to Israel? Why does God apparently have multiple means of salvation, one for the unbelieving Jew, and one for the Church? Why, if Jesus has broken down the middle wall of partition between us (Jews and Gentiles) are there yet divisions in the New Testament, two gospel messages, some books for the Jewish believers, and some for the Gentiles. Firstly, I do not believe that Israel has been "cast aside" nor do I believe that the New Covenant offer to Israel has been withdrawn, as many classical dispensational and replacement theologians do. In fact, the New Covenant was established with a believing remnant of Israel (Luke 22:20), which at the first were called his disciples, and were the subject of Jesus statement at Mat 23:34. Then at Acts 2 they were called The ekklesia (The Church, or Congregation). Paul agreed with this view according to Rom 11:1, 2, & 5. Certainly we cannot gleen from Pauls words in these verses that Israels program has been suspended (the parentheses), nor obviously, that Israel has been "replaced". Quite the contrary to both conclusions, there is only a partial blindness that has happened to Israel according to Rom 11:25, which indicates quite clearly that there is a "remnant" that is not blinded. As Paul puts it, they are the "remnant according to the the election of grace" (Rom 11:5). So, salvation by grace through faith has always been Gods way, even prior to the cross, and the Old Testament saints were saved "retroactively" so to speak, for the remnant who died in faith (Heb 9:15). "That they should not be made perfect apart from us." (Heb 11:40). And so that "in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth, even in Him (Eph 1:10). Paul also speaks in the past tense of a union of Old Testament and New Testament believers. "For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named." (Eph 3:14,15). All Israel (Rom 11:26) = The Remnant of Israel (Rom 9:27). Where is this remnant of Israel today (in this dispensation), if not in the Church? The Olive tree parable confirms this conclusion. Those Israelis who do not accept their Messiah, are called "natural branches" that have been "broken off" from the "good tree". The fact that only some of the natural branches were broken off, that a remnant are not, and that gentiles are grafted in among them (Israel)(Rom 11:17), indicates a continuity of the believing remnant of Israel both before and after Christ's death and resurrection. All of this indicates that God is and has been continually, "progressively", fulfilling his covenants and promises with Israel, but only with the believing remnant. And it indicates too, that this is no change for Israel at all. Rather, this it is just as it has always been for them throughout their history. With which Paul also agreed again in Acts 26:6-7. The only difference now is "the mystery"; that the Gentiles are co-heirs, and fellow citizens with the saints (Rom 8:17, Eph 2:19, Gal 3:26). They are the unnatural branches graft into the good tree. It is important that replacement theologians be made to understand that unnatural branches remain unnatural even graft into the tree. And it is equally crucial that classical dispensational believers are made to understand that natural branches remain natural broken away from it, or re-graft back into it. These are crucial truths in my opinion. I believe this solves the supposed OT-NT discontinuity problems which the classical dispensational doctrine was actually, intially proposed to solve. Unfortunately, today the system has been run so far afoul of that purpose, it has lost it's effectiveness in that regard. So.....now, (from this perspective), there is good reason for Israel to be jealous of gentile salvation, and no biblical logic to saying God is no longer dealing with Israel in this dispensation (Rom 10:19, Rom 11:11). Now there is nothing strange or controversial about Old Testament references applied to the Church in the New Testament (i.e. Acts 2:15-21, Acts 10:43, Acts 15:14-18, Rom. 1:1,2, Rom. 4:13-17,23,24, Rom. 9:32,33, Rom. 15:4,8-10, 2 Cor. 6:16-7:1). No more controversy about the New Covenant being applied to the Church (i.e. 1 Cor 11:25-26 & Heb 8:6-13). And most importantly, no more need to try and figure out why God seems to have multiple methods of salvation (grace through faith has always been Gods method for all of time), and no more reason to rebuild the wall of partition by cutting the New Testament up into ethnically assigned bits and pieces. (Thank you Lord!) The eschatological implications of this should be clear. If Israels "program" is not "suspended" and the Church is simply part of the progressive fulfillment of the promises made to Israel; if the Church is Jews (Israel) and Gentiles together in one congregation (and not two separate ones), then the timing of the rapture has no dispensational relevance. It is not a marker where the Church age ends and Irsaels OT covenant is again recognized by God (creating some serious doctrinal problems without a shred of scriptural support). Unbelieving Israel is not even considered to be Israel in scripture (Rom 9:6-8, Gal 4:28). Them that do not hear "that prophet" are cut off from among the congregation, not a part of it. Them that are in unbelief are broken away from the good tree and believers are graft back into that same tree. This makes the assertion that the root of the tree is Christ, impossible. Unbelieving Israelis are not broken off from Christ. Israel is promised to be a nation for ever in connection with the New Covenant (Jer 31:35-37), and Israeli unbelievers are indeed beloved, but only for the fathers (the elect) sakes (Rom 11:28-29), but are now simply another nationality upon which God must show mercy for them to believe and be saved. Jim Thanks, a lot we can agree on here, but im sure we still look at it differently. One thing i cannot agree on is your timeline, that says God is still working with the believing part of Israel , which he is,...........UNTIL Rom 11:25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. Rom 11:26 And so all Israel will be saved, [fn] as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; Notice its a mystery , but yet we shouldnt be ignorant of it. To sum it up after the Church Age, God will leave the Church and go back After the remnant in Israel. Notice again the deliver, coming again out of Zion (the Heavenly Jerusalem!)
1/30/2013 9:04:00 AM	A Passage From Josephus
cyrus2 Victoria, BC 56, joined Apr. 2012	Quote from redeamed1: Jim Thanks, a lot we can agree on here, but im sure we still look at it differently. One thing i cannot agree on is your timeline, that says God is still working with the believing part of Israel , which he is,...........UNTIL Rom 11:25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. Rom 11:26 And so all Israel will be saved, [fn] as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; Notice its a mystery , but yet we shouldnt be ignorant of it. To sum it up after the Church Age, God will leave the Church and go back After the remnant in Israel. Notice again the deliver, coming again out of Zion (the Heavenly Jerusalem!) Nope that is incorrect. There is no end to the church age as you think, The Jews had the gospel first and then the Gentiles, It doesn't swing back tio the Jews for another round eons in the future. That is Zionist propoganda and BS read the prophecy again, this time with the quotes from the OT that Paul applies to the prophecy. The salvation comes to Israel when the old covenant law is completely removed and the temple is destroyed. When is the day of Israel's salvation said to occur. Isaiah 49:8 Thus says the Lord:“In an acceptable time I have heard You, And in the day of salvation I have helped You; I will preserve You and give You As a covenant to the people, To restore the earth, To cause them to inherit the desolate heritages; 2 Corinthians 6:2 For He says:“In an acceptable time I have heard you, And in the day of salvation I have helped you.”Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation. [Edited 1/30/2013 9:05:41 AM ]
1/30/2013 9:19:23 AM	A Passage From Josephus
tomdl56 Lebanon, PA 61, joined Sep. 2012	The point is, Jesus spoke of horrendous things that would befall Judea. Reading Josephus, and other historians like him shows that they happened.
1/30/2013 11:07:27 AM	A Passage From Josephus
redeamed1 Edmonds, WA 56, joined Jan. 2013	Quote from cyrus2: Nope that is incorrect. There is no end to the church age as you think, The Jews had the gospel first and then the Gentiles, It doesn't swing back tio the Jews for another round eons in the future. That is Zionist propoganda and BS read the prophecy again, this time with the quotes from the OT that Paul applies to the prophecy. The salvation comes to Israel when the old covenant law is completely removed and the temple is destroyed. When is the day of Israel's salvation said to occur. Isaiah 49:8 Thus says the Lord:“In an acceptable time I have heard You, And in the day of salvation I have helped You; I will preserve You and give You As a covenant to the people, To restore the earth, To cause them to inherit the desolate heritages; 2 Corinthians 6:2 For He says:“In an acceptable time I have heard you, And in the day of salvation I have helped you.”Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation. Cyrus all one has to do is read Romans Chap 11, and see the Jews were the broken off branches and he would come gain and heal and deliver them after he is done with the church! A deliverer will come out of Zion.....Jesus, touching again his feet on mt Zion.
1/30/2013 1:57:19 PM	A Passage From Josephus
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 64, joined Oct. 2007	History is NOT proof of amything.
1/30/2013 2:19:36 PM	A Passage From Josephus
share_n_love Fort Wayne, IN 61, joined Dec. 2012	Quote from tomdl56: Share, it is very simple. If you had an elementary knowledge of English, you should be able to understand it. In Matthew 24, the disciples came to Jesus privately to ask him about the time of the end. So this was a private conversation between Jesus and his disciples. So when Jesus used the pronoun "you," or in the KJV, "ye," it is obvious that Jesus was directing his comment to those disciples. Now what did he say to those disciples? He told them that they would see various dangers, including the abomination of desolation spoken by Daniel the prophet, when he said there would be great tribulation in Judea. Verse 29 begins with, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days..." Not thousands of years in the future. What he said would happen immediately after those days had to have happened or Jesus lied. It's as simple as that. Can I prove it? No I cannot. All I know is what Jesus said, and I take him at his word. Well, since you take Him at His word, when did EVERY knee bow & EVERY tongue confess He is Lord? Also, Mt 24:3 3) When he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the talmidim came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that you are coming, and that the `olam hazeh is ending?" You notice there are 2 separate questions here...they are NOT connected to the same occurrence. Mt 24 answers the first one, and Mt 25 answers the 2nd ones. Mt 24 answers the question about the Temple, and Mt 25 answers the questions about his 2nd coming where ALL the nations are judged: both Jews and Gentiles.
1/30/2013 2:59:53 PM	A Passage From Josephus
tomdl56 Lebanon, PA 61, joined Sep. 2012	Quote from share_n_love: Well, since you take Him at His word, when did EVERY knee bow & EVERY tongue confess He is Lord? I don't know. All I know it had to have happened, or the Bible is a lie, and can't be trusted.
1/30/2013 4:43:00 PM	A Passage From Josephus
share_n_love Fort Wayne, IN 61, joined Dec. 2012	Because it HASN'T happened yet. As I said...2 separate questions were asked not 2 that were related. 1 was fulfilled [Temple destruction chp 24] and 1 has yet to be fulfilled as described in chp 25. Yeshua gave 2 answers clearly as chp 25 is not a continuation of 24, it is a completely different answer incorporating ALL nations which includes the Gentiles.
1/30/2013 7:43:56 PM	A Passage From Josephus
tomdl56 Lebanon, PA 61, joined Sep. 2012	Quote from share_n_love: Because it HASN'T happened yet. As I said...2 separate questions were asked not 2 that were related. 1 was fulfilled [Temple destruction chp 24] and 1 has yet to be fulfilled as described in chp 25. Yeshua gave 2 answers clearly as chp 25 is not a continuation of 24, it is a completely different answer incorporating ALL nations which includes the Gentiles. Didn't the son of Jehovah say that when the gospel is preached in all the world the end would come? According to Paul, that happened. Colossians 1.23.
1/30/2013 8:09:14 PM	A Passage From Josephus
cyrus2 Victoria, BC 56, joined Apr. 2012	Quote from share_n_love: Well, since you take Him at His word, when did EVERY knee bow & EVERY tongue confess He is Lord? Also, Mt 24:3 3) When he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the talmidim came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that you are coming, and that the `olam hazeh is ending?" You notice there are 2 separate questions here...they are NOT connected to the same occurrence. Mt 24 answers the first one, and Mt 25 answers the 2nd ones. Mt 24 answers the question about the Temple, and Mt 25 answers the questions about his 2nd coming where ALL the nations are judged: both Jews and Gentiles. The evidence that it is one topic is notonly seen in the other gospels, that sum it all up into one event. This is obviously one event because there is only one sign that shows the coming of Christ and the end of the age. Notice that the disciples asked for the sign(singular) that would show them the coming of Christ and the end of the age. Then Jesus tells them the signs that will lead up to that one singular sign that shows both that it is the time for both the end of the age and the coming of Christ. And what will be the sign that you are coming, and that the `olam hazeh is ending?" If it were two events then there could not be one sign that showed both these events unless sthey happenned at the same time that the singular sign appeared. The coming of Christ is at the end of the age. And that age is the age of the first covenant. That old covenant age is over and the new covenant age is here..
1/31/2013 9:35:14 AM	A Passage From Josephus
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 64, joined Oct. 2007	Quote from tomdl56: It happened. It's written in history. Once again I must caution that History is a perspective and in itself is NOT fact. Just because someone wrote about it thousands of years ago doesn't mean that it did indeed happen. Here are a couple of actual Medieval Tapestries that show UFOs next to Jesus and Mary. It's History, documented from the dates posted under the pictures. Did it happen? I don't think so, Tim. History is a perspective, and not to be taken as fact. Quote from tomdl56: That is just one such passage from this book. For some strange reason our friend tomdl56 has decided to keep the rest of the relating passages from the Book of Josephus a secret. That is, if, indeed, there are other passages. Quote from tomdl56: The signs of the end that the disciples asked Jesus for have been fulfilled. Whooooa. Hold your horses there cowboy. Some of the events that were described in Josephus probably happened, but the conclusions you have jumped to are your own, and NOT historical. Quote from tomdl56: The armies surrounding the city. The destruction of the temple. How than can anyone say with any credibility that Jesus is still now waiting to return. I still say that these events signaled the end of the Brass/Copper Eon (age or era) as described in the Book of Daniel. There are still two Eons that follow before Jesus returns; the Iron and the Clay Eons.
1/31/2013 11:10:13 AM	A Passage From Josephus
cyrus2 Victoria, BC 56, joined Apr. 2012	Quote from redeamed1: Cyrus all one has to do is read Romans Chap 11, and see the Jews were the broken off branches and he would come gain and heal and deliver them after he is done with the church! A deliverer will come out of Zion.....Jesus, touching again his feet on mt Zion. No it isn't all you have to do is read Romans 11, because Paul didn't make that prophecy up on his own. Paul taught ONLY what was written in the law and the prophets. So Paul got his teaching from the old testament and didn't make it up on his own. Now if you want to understand what Paul is teaching then you need to bring his old testament quote into understanding. Paul quotes Isaiah 59:20,21; 27:9 (see Septuagint); Jer. 31:33,34 If you want to understand what Paul is speaking about then you need to use the same information that Paul is using to validate what he is teaching. Go read Isaiah 59 and 27 and also Jeremiah 31 and see how the destruction of the temple is central to this prophecy of israel's salvation. The day of salvation is not future as you think, and you just completely ignored the truth of the scripture that Paul states the 'day of Israel's salvation' is not in the future but is when he is alive and claiming it is fulfilled under the insspsiration of the Spirit. You are reading into that verse and if you read the prophecy in its original speech as Paul does then you wouldn't claim a future day of salvation and be denying that salvation was not in the day and time that Paul verified it was. In other words the scripture does not teach what we want it to teach, it teaches what the inspired writers implied it to mean.
1/31/2013 11:28:43 AM	A Passage From Josephus
redeamed1 Edmonds, WA 56, joined Jan. 2013	Quote from cyrus2: No it isn't all you have to do is read Romans 11, because Paul didn't make that prophecy up on his own. Paul taught ONLY what was written in the law and the prophets. So Paul got his teaching from the old testament and didn't make it up on his own. Now if you want to understand what Paul is teaching then you need to bring his old testament quote into understanding. Paul quotes Isaiah 59:20,21; 27:9 (see Septuagint); Jer. 31:33,34 If you want to understand what Paul is speaking about then you need to use the same information that Paul is using to validate what he is teaching. Go read Isaiah 59 and 27 and also Jeremiah 31 and see how the destruction of the temple is central to this prophecy of israel's salvation. The day of salvation is not future as you think, and you just completely ignored the truth of the scripture that Paul states the 'day of Israel's salvation' is not in the future but is when he is alive and claiming it is fulfilled under the insspsiration of the Spirit. You are reading into that verse and if you read the prophecy in its original speech as Paul does then you wouldn't claim a future day of salvation and be denying that salvation was not in the day and time that Paul verified it was. In other words the scripture does not teach what we want it to teach, it teaches what the inspired writers implied it to mean. I read your scriptures and dont see anywhere were it even mentions the temple ad 70 destruction. Quit trying to cherry pick scriptures and make them say what you want. Romans 11 describes A remnant according to the election of Grace(jews). The rest were cut off because of unbelief. until Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. Then after the fullness of the Gentiles, which goes beyond 70 ad. He will finish the work with the Jews. Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: Notice again the 2nd coming of the Lord in romans 11.
1/31/2013 3:09:22 PM	A Passage From Josephus
tomdl56 Lebanon, PA 61, joined Sep. 2012	This system is different. Big D said, "Once again I must caution that History is a perspective and in itself is NOT fact. Just because someone wrote about it thousands of years ago doesn't mean that it did indeed happen." Then prove to me that George Washington existed. Big D made this false accusation, "For some strange reason our friend tomdl56 has decided to keep the rest of the relating passages from the Book of Josephus a secret. That is, if, indeed, there are other passages." I am not keeping any secret. What do you want me to do, quote all the passages relating to 66-70AD? If you want to know more, go get the book. Or google it, it maybe on line somewhere. But don't make false accusations. That is called a sin. And, this is not about UFOs you big............
1/31/2013 3:37:45 PM	A Passage From Josephus
share_n_love Fort Wayne, IN 61, joined Dec. 2012	Quote from tomdl56: Didn't the son of Jehovah say that when the gospel is preached in all the world the end would come? According to Paul, that happened. Colossians 1.23. I read 3 commentaries one being the CJB NT Commentary, and actually the verse in the old manuscripts reads this way: Col 1:23, 23. provided, of course, that you continue in your trusting, grounded and steady, and don't let yourselves be moved away from the hope offered in the Good News you heard. This is the Good News that has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven; and I, Sha'ul, have become a servant of it. As you see, this is MUCH different than 'preached to every creature' which is in the KJV & NKJV. The one I posted is supported by Deut 4:26, "I call heaven and earth to witness against you"... In the verse I posted above 'proclaim' means to be seen or to announce...NOT preached. So imho, one cannot use Col 1:23 to further the claim that the Disciples are asking only 1 question, when in fact it's 2 questions with the 2nd one being a 2-part.
1/31/2013 3:40:29 PM	A Passage From Josephus
prophetic774 Winter Haven, FL 66, joined Feb. 2011	2 days before his crucifixion Jesus gave the famous Mount of Olives sermon prophecies on April 1 AD 33. The prophecies in this sermon are recorded in Matthew 24 and 25, Mark 13 and Luke 21:5-37. In Matthew 24;1,2, Mark 13;1,2 and Luke 21:5,6 Jesus prophesies that the present Jewish Temple will be completely destroyed. Then in Matthew 24:3 the discipleas asked Jesus {2} questions {1} "When will this happen? {Or when will the Jewish Temple be destroyed} and {2} "What will be the sign of your Coming and the End of the Age?" Jesus answered question number {1} in Matthew 24:34; Mark 13:30 and Luke 21:32 where Jesus said "This generation {April AD 33 to October AD 70} will not pass away untill all these things have happened." "All these things that happened" in September to October AD 70 concerning the destruction of the Temple and events just before this took place; are recorded ONLY in Luke 21:20-24: Jesus prophesied, "When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the country not enter the city {It took the Roman army about 6 days to completely encircle Jerusalem} For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.... There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. They will fall by the sword and will taken as prisoners to all the nations, Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled." The times of the Gentiles ended on June 7th 1967 when the Jews took complete control of Jerusalem after 1897 years of Gentile rule. All of the other prophecies in the Olivet Sermon of Jesus have obviously nothing to do with the destruction of the Temple in AD 70 and only refers to the Tribulation during the 1260-day Great Tribulation immediately before the 2nd Coming of Jesus and events that will take place on the Last Day at the 2nd Coming of Jesus such as Matthew 24:9-14, Matthew 24:29-31 and Matthew 25:31-46: Matthew 24:3,9-13: The disciples asked Jesus, “What will be the sign of your Coming and the END OF THE AGE?? Jesus answered….. {During the 1260-day Great Tribulation} “Then YOU will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and YOU will be hated by all nations because of Me. At that time many will turn away from the Faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of MOST* will grow cold,{THE GREAT APOSTASY} but he {The Called, Chosen & Faithful-Rev 17:14b} who stands firm to the END will be saved. This gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to ALL NATIONS* {This did not occur in AD 70!}, and then the END will come!” THE GREAT COMMISSION: Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, “All authority in heaven and on EARTH has been given to Me {Not some RC Pope}. Therefore go and make disciples of ALL NATIONS...teaching them to OBEY EVERYTHING I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very END OF THE AGE!” THE HARVEST IS THE END OF THE AGE! Matthew 13:39-43: Jesus says, “The Harvest is the END OF THE AGE and the harvesters are ANGELS. As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the END OF THE AGE. The Son of Man will send out His ANGELS, and they will weed out of His kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. THEN the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father!” I Corinthians 15:22-24: “For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits, then when He comes, those who belong to Him. Then the END will come, when He hands over the Kingdom to God the Father after He has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.” And so when Jesus comes again at the END OF THE AGE He will hand over the Kingdom to God the Father! Mark 13:10 Jesus says, “The AGE TO COME is Eternal Life!”I Timothy 6:19: In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the COMING AGE, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life!”
1/31/2013 3:43:15 PM	A Passage From Josephus
prophetic774 Winter Haven, FL 66, joined Feb. 2011	Events in the Olivet Prophecies which obviously did not take place in AD 70!! Matthew 24:29-31: Jesus says, “Immediately after the distress of those {1260} days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light and the stars will fall from the sky.” {Luke 21:28 adds “When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”} Then the nations will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a loud {7TH & LAST} TRUMPET CALL and they will gather His elect from the 4 winds {Mark 13:27b adds:} “from the ends of the earth {Saints on earth} to the ends of the Heavens {Saints in Heaven}!!” JESUS WILL COME AGAIN WHEN THE 7TH ANGEL SOUNDS THE LOUD 7TH AND LAST TRUMPET CALL OF GOD. Rev 11:15a, 18: “The 7TH angel sounded his trumpet… and the time has come for judging the dead and for rewarding your servants the prophets and saints.” {See Rev 22:12; 2 Corinthians 5:10; Matt 25:31-46 & Rev 20:11-15} Matt 25:31-34,41: Jesus says, “WHEN the Son of Man comes in His glory,{On the Last Day} and all the angels with Him {See Matt 24:29-31}, He will sit on His throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate the people one from another……He will put His sheep on His right and the goats on the left. THEN the King {Jesus} will say to those on His right, “Come you who are blessed by My Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world... THEN He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire!” The phrase "World without end" is not in God's Word. Matthew 4:8-10 The devil took Jesus to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. "All this I will give you." he said "if you fall down and worship me." I John 5:19: We know that we are the children of God, an that the whole world is under the control of the evil one." John 18:36: Jesus says, "My Kingdom is NOT OF THIS WORLD. If it were My servants would fight." Hebrews 11:13- "All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised, they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance. And they admitted they were aliens and strangers on earth. People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. If they had been thinking of they country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. Instead, they were looking for a better country A HEAVENLY ONE. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a City for them. {The New Jerusalem with its New Heaven and New Earth!} The Satanic Roman Catholic Preterists believe that everything in Matthew 24 and 25 and in Revelation already took place in AD 70 which is of course completely ridiculous. The Roman Catholic Preterists believe that the Satanic Popes will usher in Peace on the earth and the Roman Catholics will then rule the world in the present evil earth which will last for ever and ever??? And as usual the sacred Word of God completely contradicts this Satanic belief: 2 Peter 3:10-13: But the Day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be burned up.....That day will bring about the destructionof the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with His promise we {All true Christians} are looking forward to a New Heaven and a New Earth, the home of righteousness." Revelation 21:1-4: Then I saw a New Heaven and a New Earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the Throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men and He will live with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away. He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making EVERYTHING NEW!!"
2/1/2013 1:33:21 AM	A Passage From Josephus
tomdl56 Lebanon, PA 61, joined Sep. 2012	Quote from share_n_love: I read 3 commentaries one being the CJB NT Commentary, and actually the verse in the old manuscripts reads this way: Col 1:23, 23. provided, of course, that you continue in your trusting, grounded and steady, and don't let yourselves be moved away from the hope offered in the Good News you heard. This is the Good News that has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven; and I, Sha'ul, have become a servant of it. As you see, this is MUCH different than 'preached to every creature' which is in the KJV & NKJV. The one I posted is supported by Deut 4:26, "I call heaven and earth to witness against you"... In the verse I posted above 'proclaim' means to be seen or to announce...NOT preached. So imho, one cannot use Col 1:23 to further the claim that the Disciples are asking only 1 question, when in fact it's 2 questions with the 2nd one being a 2-part. Oh puuuuulease! Do you have to always have to always have to squabble over words and translations. What is essential difference of preaching and proclaiming? And what is the essential difference between all creation and every creature?
2/1/2013 2:38:48 AM	A Passage From Josephus
share_n_love Fort Wayne, IN 61, joined Dec. 2012	There is a lot of difference. Apparently from your posting you think it all means the same but it doesn't. Creation includes mankind, nature, and animals. Creature in the respect you want to use would mean just man. I already explained the difference of preaching to mankind and proclaiming to the world the end from the beginning as God said. It must mean a great deal of difference since God said even heaven and earth will testify against you, meaning it all is His handiwork. So if you are correct, why couldn't you even tell me when EVERY knee bowed and EVERY tongue confess He is Lord? [Edited 2/1/2013 2:41:25 AM ]
2/1/2013 8:31:13 AM	A Passage From Josephus
prophetic774 Winter Haven, FL 66, joined Feb. 2011	Sharonlove: If God the Father and God the Son are just One Being how can God the Son say God the Father is GREATER than I. John 14:28: Jesus says, "If you loved Me, you would be glad that I am going to to the Father, for the Father is GREATER than I !!" Jesus says in John 14:23: "If you you love Me, obey My Words. Then My Father will love him,and WE{PLUAL} will come to him and make OUR{PLURAL} home with him. God the Father has placed God the Son over EVERYTHING for the church {Not the Satanic Popes} until His Second Coming when Jesus will then hand back the Kingdom to God the Father. God the Father and God the Son sit on SEPARATE thrones and God the Father is greater than God the Son. Ephesians 1:20-23: God the Father raised God the Son from the dead and seated Him at His right handin the heavenly realms FAR ABOVE all rule and authority power and dominion... ...... And God the Father has placed ALL things under His feet and appointed Him to be HEAD over EVERYTHING for the church!! Ephesians 4:11-16: It is He {God the Son--NOT the church} who gives some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the Body of Christ may be built up untill we allreach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ......Speaking the Truth in Love, we will in all things grow up into Him who is the HEAD, that is, Christ. From Him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work!! I Corinthians 15:22-24: For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ, the Firstfruits; then, when He comes, those who belong to Him. Then the END will come whe He hands over the Kingdom to God the Father.
2/1/2013 10:12:42 AM	A Passage From Josephus
cyrus2 Victoria, BC 56, joined Apr. 2012	Quote from redeamed1: I read your scriptures and dont see anywhere were it even mentions the temple ad 70 destruction. Quit trying to cherry pick scriptures and make them say what you want. Romans 11 describes A remnant according to the election of Grace(jews). The rest were cut off because of unbelief. until Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. Then after the fullness of the Gentiles, which goes beyond 70 ad. He will finish the work with the Jews. Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: Notice again the 2nd coming of the Lord in romans 11. Maybe you should ask the Lord to open your eyes to see, before you read the scriptures nstead of going in them with an atitude as the Lord does not reward a stubborn attitude that already knows it all. Isaiah 27 By warfare and exile you contend with her— with his fierce blast he drives her out, as on a day the east wind blows. 9 By this, then, will Jacob’s guilt be atoned for, and this will be the full fruit of the removal of his sin: When he makes all the altar stones to be like limestone crushed to pieces, no Asherah poles or incense altars will be left standing. 10 The fortified city stands desolate, an abandoned settlement, forsaken like the wilderness; there the calves graze, there they lie down; they strip its branches bare. 11 When its twigs are dry, they are broken off and women come and make fires with them. For this is a people without understanding; so their Maker has no compassion on them, and their Creator shows them no favor. This is a prophecy that was fulfilled when Jerusalem was destroyed in AD 70. Notice the motiff of destruction being what atone's for Jacob's sin. I would recommend also maybe looking at a few study commentaries...Adam Clarke's commentary is a good helper to help understand the 'who what where when and why'. As far as the fulness of the Gentiles coming in, that lasted for 42 months and the end of the Gentiles 42 month appointed time of destruction is when the city and temple is destroyed completly. Luke 21:24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. Romans 11 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. Revelation 11 “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers. 2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. and after the time of the 42 months of Gentile destruction to the holy city and temple, the seventh trumpet sounds and the kingdoms of the world become the kingdoms of the Lord [Edited 2/1/2013 10:15:39 AM ]
2/1/2013 10:23:24 AM	A Passage From Josephus
redeamed1 Edmonds, WA 56, joined Jan. 2013	Quote from cyrus2: Maybe you should ask the Lord to open your eyes to see, before you read the scriptures nstead of going in them with an atitude as the Lord does not reward a stubborn attitude that already knows it all. Isaiah 27 By warfare and exile you contend with her— with his fierce blast he drives her out, as on a day the east wind blows. 9 By this, then, will Jacob’s guilt be atoned for, and this will be the full fruit of the removal of his sin: When he makes all the altar stones to be like limestone crushed to pieces, no Asherah poles or incense altars will be left standing. 10 The fortified city stands desolate, an abandoned settlement, forsaken like the wilderness; there the calves graze, there they lie down; they strip its branches bare. 11 When its twigs are dry, they are broken off and women come and make fires with them. For this is a people without understanding; so their Maker has no compassion on them, and their Creator shows them no favor. This is a prophecy that was fulfilled when Jerusalem was destroyed in AD 70. Notice the motiff of destruction being what atone's for Jacob's sin. I would recommend also maybe looking at a few study commentaries...Adam Clarke's commentary is a good helper to help understand the 'who what where when and why'. As far as the fulness of the Gentiles coming in, that lasted for 42 months and the end of the Gentiles 42 month appointed time of destruction is when the city and temple is destroyed completly. Luke 21:24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. Romans 11 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. Revelation 11 “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers. 2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. Know it all ,more like a gift, the Holy Spirit brings it to remembrance and guides us into truth. You say that the two witnesses already came and breathed fire from their mouths and all the world sent gifts to one another? And somehow there is no recorded history of it, from the church?
2/1/2013 10:26:52 AM	A Passage From Josephus
cyrus2 Victoria, BC 56, joined Apr. 2012	Quote from redeamed1: Know it all ,more like a gift, the Holy Spirit brings it to remembrance and guides us into truth. You say that the two witnesses already came and breathed fire from their mouths and all the world sent gifts to one another? And somehow there is no recorded history of it, from the church? first deal with the post I have just raised as an objection, then move on to your next objection.
2/1/2013 10:37:09 AM	A Passage From Josephus
share_n_love Fort Wayne, IN 61, joined Dec. 2012	Quote from prophetic774: Sharonlove: If God the Father and God the Son are just One Being how can God the Son say God the Father is GREATER than I. John 14:28: Jesus says, "If you loved Me, you would be glad that I am going to to the Father, for the Father is GREATER than I !!" Jesus says in John 14:23: "If you you love Me, obey My Words. Then My Father will love him,and WE{PLUAL} will come to him and make OUR{PLURAL} home with him. God the Father has placed God the Son over EVERYTHING for the church {Not the Satanic Popes} until His Second Coming when Jesus will then hand back the Kingdom to God the Father. God the Father and God the Son sit on SEPARATE thrones and God the Father is greater than God the Son. Ephesians 1:20-23: God the Father raised God the Son from the dead and seated Him at His right handin the heavenly realms FAR ABOVE all rule and authority power and dominion... ...... And God the Father has placed ALL things under His feet and appointed Him to be HEAD over EVERYTHING for the church!! Ephesians 4:11-16: It is He {God the Son--NOT the church} who gives some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the Body of Christ may be built up untill we allreach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ......Speaking the Truth in Love, we will in all things grow up into Him who is the HEAD, that is, Christ. From Him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work!! I Corinthians 15:22-24: For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ, the Firstfruits; then, when He comes, those who belong to Him. Then the END will come whe He hands over the Kingdom to God the Father. You're on the wrong thread for this topic.... [Edited 2/1/2013 10:37:46 AM ]
2/1/2013 10:42:16 AM	A Passage From Josephus
redeamed1 Edmonds, WA 56, joined Jan. 2013	Quote from redeamed1: Know it all ,more like a gift, the Holy Spirit brings it to remembrance and guides us into truth. You say that the two witnesses already came and breathed fire from their mouths and all the world sent gifts to one another? And somehow there is no recorded history of it, from the church? Jacobs time of trouble is the remaining years left in Daniels prophecy yet to be fullfilled, it will be fullfilled after the Fullness of the Gentiles has come in, and then he will return to save Israel, in the tribulation.
2/1/2013 11:13:33 AM	A Passage From Josephus
cyrus2 Victoria, BC 56, joined Apr. 2012	Quote from redeamed1: Jacobs time of trouble is the remaining years left in Daniels prophecy yet to be fullfilled, it will be fullfilled after the Fullness of the Gentiles has come in, and then he will return to save Israel, in the tribulation. you are forgetting that first Peter Pan must rescue Tinkerbell from the evil queen bee that is holding her captive in the enchanted garden.
2/1/2013 11:26:34 AM	A Passage From Josephus
redeamed1 Edmonds, WA 56, joined Jan. 2013	Quote from cyrus2: you are forgetting that first Peter Pan must rescue Tinkerbell from the evil queen bee that is holding her captive in the enchanted garden. Wow your perty good at remembering and quoting fairy tales. I havent heard that for years, besides, im terrible about remembering that kind of stuff. How do you keep such things in your heart and head?
2/1/2013 3:54:56 PM	A Passage From Josephus
prophetic774 Winter Haven, FL 66, joined Feb. 2011	WHAT CAN SAINTS EXPECT IN THE FIRST WEEK OF THE 1260-DAY GREAT TRIBULATION?? According to Revelation 13:5,7,8: The Beast {666} will have authority over EVERY tribe people nation and language in the world for 42 months {1260 days} and everyone whose name is not written in the Lamb's Book of Life will worship 666. 666 is called “THE BEAST” 36 {6x6} times in Revelation . Question: How will the Beast {Nero Caesar-666} and His False Prophet {Obama?} gain control of every nation of the world in the first week of the 1260-day Tribulation?? According to Daniel 7:24b a Roman King will subdue 3 kings. Rev 6:8; “There before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, {666} and Hades {The False prophet who will cause people to go to hell or hades with the mark of 666} was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.” NOTE: China, India and Russia are 3 kingdoms that make up a fourth of the earth! Rev 13:4: Men worshiped the dragon {Satan} because he had given authority to the Beast {666} and they also worshiped the beast and asked, “Who is like the Beast? Who can make war against him?” Immediately after miraculously conquering 3 kingdoms or one fourth of the earth 666 will appoint 10 kings who had never before ruled over the 10 most powerful kingdoms of the earth. Rev 17:12-14: The 10 horns you saw {On 666} are 10 kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but will give their authority as kings along with the Beast {666}. They have one purpose and will give their authority to the Beast {666}. They will make war against the Lamb but the Lamb will overcome them {On the Last Day} because He is King of kings and Lord of lords.” {See Rev 19:20,21} The following 10 powerful nations have OVER 50% OF THE WORLD'S POPULATION and ABOUT 70% OF THE WORLD'S MILITARY POWER and certainly have the military, political and “religious” power to control and rule all the nations of the world: #1. United States #2. Russia #3. China {1.3 Billion} #4. Great Britain #5. France #6. India {1.1 Billion} #7. Germany #8. Japan #9. Brazil #10. Egypt. Brazil borders every nation in South America except for Chile. Egypt is the university, intellectual and theological center of Islam. And then 666 will have “authority over every tribe, people, language and nation” as per Rev 13:7b, from his headquarters in the evil city on 7 hills or Rome. The idea that 666 will choose a European Union of 10 nations with about 5 % of the world's population and about 10 % of the world's military power to control the world just because these nations are close to Rome is just an idea which is not supported by God's Word. Revelation 13:14-17: “He {The False Prophet-Obama??} will deceive the inhabitants of the earth. He will order them to set up an image in honor of the Beast {666} who was wounded by the sword {On June 9th AD 68} and yet lived {Nero Caesar?}. He will have power to give breath to the image of the first Beast {666}, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.” “He {The False Prophet-Obama?} will force everyone... to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast {NERO CAESAR?} or the number of his name 666. Since these 2 world-wide laws: To worship the statue of 666 {Possibly on TV} or be killed; and not being able to buy or sell anything; there will be a huge falling away among most of the people who claim to be Christians but are not the Called, the Chosen and the Faithful {See Revelation 17:14}. Moses and Elijah will begin their 1260-day testimony {Rev 11:3} 3 1/2 days before the coming of 666 & the 1260-day Great Tribulation and 1263 1/2 days before the Last Day. {**THE FIRST END-TIME EVENT*} Moses and Elijah will certainly warn God's saints of the coming of 666 and his False Prophet. In Matthew 24:3,9-13: The disciples asked Jesus, “What will be the sign of your Coming and the end of the age?? Jesus answered….. {During the 1260-day Great Tribulation} “Then YOU* will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and YOU will be hated by all nations BECAUSE OF ME. At that time many will turn away from the Faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of MOST will grow cold, but he {The Called, Chosen & Faithful—Revelation 17:14} who stands firm to the END will be saved.” Rev 2:10: Jesus says, “Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the Crown of Life!” God will miraculously take care of His Faithful and Courageous Tribulation Saints {Just as he took care of the Israelites for 40 years in the Wilderness} even though they won’t be able to buy or sell anything as per Rev 13:17a. {See Matthew 6:25-34 where storing up items are forbidden} There are a few Post-Tribbers such as Jim Bakker who are teaching that we should store up at least a year's supply of food for the Great Tribulation which is a direct contradiction to God's Word in Matthew 6:25-34. God's NT saints will go through the Great Tribulation without suffering the wrath of God, as did the OT saints in Egypt when God sent many horrific plagues on Egyptians because of Pharoah. Matthew 6:31-34: Jesus says, “Do not worry, saying, “What shall we eat?” or “What shall we drink?” or “What shall we wear?” For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first His Kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Therefore, do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own!” I Peter 1:13: “Therefore, prepare your minds for ACTION, and set your hope FULLY on the grace to be given YOU when Jesus Christ is REVEALED. I John 2:3-5: “We know that we have come to know Him if we OBEY HIS COMMANDS. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what He commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys His Word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in Him.” 2 Corinthians 6:4-10: As servants of God we commend ourselves in every way: in great endurance, in troubles, hardships and distresses, in beatings, imprisonments; in hard work, sleepless nights and hunger; in the Holy Spirit and in sincere love, in truthful speech and in the power of God; genuine, yet regarded as impostors; dying, and yet we live on; beaten and yet not killed; POOR, yet making many rich; HAVING NOTHING; and yet possessing everything.” And so those who love Jesus and obey His commands will be ready for the 1260-day coming Great Tribulation which may be very very close!!
2/2/2013 9:45:10 AM	A Passage From Josephus
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 64, joined Oct. 2007	Quote from tomdl56: This system is different. Big D said, "Once again I must caution that History is a perspective and in itself is NOT fact. Just because someone wrote about it thousands of years ago doesn't mean that it did indeed happen." Then prove to me that George Washington existed. There is no proof. you silly man. There was no Betsy Ross. She was made up. I am not sure what else has been made up. And that's the point. Niether do you. And the further back we go, the more unstable these writings get. B Quote from tomdl56: ig D made this false accusation, "For some strange reason our friend tomdl56 has decided to keep the rest of the relating passages from the Book of Josephus a secret. That is, if, indeed, there are other passages." I am not keeping any secret. What do you want me to do, quote all the passages relating to 66-70AD? If you want to know more, go get the book. Or google it, it maybe on line somewhere. But don't make false accusations. That is called a sin. Nothing false about that statement. I have seen nothing that you have put here from Josephus that would lead me to believe that Jesus has returned. You have faile in backing up your statements. You were the one who said there was proof in that book. I have read some of it. I see nothing that would lead me to beleive that Jesus came back. Quote from tomdl56: And, this is not about UFOs you big............ I was making a point. Evidently it fell on deaf ears. But no comment about my posts on Matt. 24?
2/2/2013 10:19:32 AM	A Passage From Josephus
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 64, joined Oct. 2007	Quote from tomdl56: JOSEPHUS 37 B.C. - A.D. 70 (The Christian Library, Barbour) The passage I'm about to quote is from page 222-223... That is just one such passage from this book. Jesus told his disciples about Jerusalem surrounded by armies. It happened. It's written in history. He warned them to flee Judea. Ol tom here is making assumptions again. I don't see anything that he posted from Josephus about Jesus or His return. Alot of Christian writers do this. They will make a statement and then give an erronious Bible verse, hoping we don't look it up. Ol tom here is hoping no one looks up Josephus, because there is nothing there about Jesus return.
2/2/2013 10:48:43 AM	A Passage From Josephus
cyrus2 Victoria, BC 56, joined Apr. 2012	Josephus is not a christian writer as you assume bigdufus Josephus is a historian, and tom gave you the pages from which he quoted Josephus, did you need tom to come and read it to you personally for your bedtime story?
2/2/2013 11:42:27 AM	A Passage From Josephus
tomdl56 Lebanon, PA 61, joined Sep. 2012	Quote from bigd9832: Ol tom here is making assumptions again. I don't see anything that he posted from Josephus about Jesus or His return. Alot of Christian writers do this. They will make a statement and then give an erronious Bible verse, hoping we don't look it up. Ol tom here is hoping no one looks up Josephus, because there is nothing there about Jesus return. I'm really getting tired of this. PLEASE READ WHAT I SAID! I CAN EASILY SEE WHY THE HELL YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND THE BIBLE WHEN YOU CAN'T EVEN UNDERSTAND ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Edited 2/2/2013 11:43:49 AM ]
2/3/2013 11:22:16 AM	A Passage From Josephus
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 64, joined Oct. 2007	Quote from tomdl56: I'm really getting tired of this. PLEASE READ WHAT I SAID! I CAN EASILY SEE WHY THE HELL YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND THE BIBLE WHEN YOU CAN'T EVEN UNDERSTAND ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It seems ol tom is getting to his wits end. So far he has not presented any evidence that Jesus has returned. I agreed that the events of Matt 24 has taken place. I just don't agree with his conclusions. And so far, ol tom has offered nothing to show that Jesus has already returned. No matter how tired he gets.
2/3/2013 11:37:01 AM	A Passage From Josephus
redeamed1 Edmonds, WA 56, joined Jan. 2013	Quote from bigd9832: It seems ol tom is getting to his wits end. So far he has not presented any evidence that Jesus has returned. I agreed that the events of Matt 24 has taken place. I just don't agree with his conclusions. And so far, ol tom has offered nothing to show that Jesus has already returned. No matter how tired he gets. Well instead of just spending time needling someone, why dont you have a discussion and present your case! You say Matt 24 has already happened, prove it
2/3/2013 11:46:37 AM	A Passage From Josephus
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 64, joined Oct. 2007	Quote from redeamed1: Well instead of just spending time needling someone, why dont you have a discussion and present your case! You say Matt 24 has already happened, prove it Actually I was waiting for tom to provide evidence to back up what he has already said here. I think he haws already proved that the events of Matt 24 have already transpired. But history is not proof, and it would be impossible to prove anything is the Ancient past. Unless you have a time machine or think you were there at the time.
2/3/2013 12:08:40 PM	A Passage From Josephus
prophetic774 Winter Haven, FL 66, joined Feb. 2011	WE ARE ALL EAGERLY WAITING FOR OUR ETERNAL RENDEZVOUS WITH JESUS! I Peter 1:13: “Therefore, prepare your minds for ACTION, and set your hope FULLY on the grace to be given YOU when Jesus Christ is REVEALED. I Cor 1:7: “YOU do not lack any spiritual gift as YOU eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be REVEALED.” Now the pre-tribbers claim that this glorious REVEALING or REVELATION* of Jesus will be CONCEALED BEFORE the beginning of the Great Tribulation. However, every other time the Word REVEALED {Greek-Apocalipsis} is used related to resurrection events it refers to the glorious REVEALING of Jesus on the LAST DAY of the Great Tribulation {See 2 Thess 1:7-10 & Luke 17:26-31}. And CONCEALED is the exact opposite of REVEALED and APPEARED according to every dictionary! Titus 2:13: “WE wait for the BLESSED HOPE—the glorious APPEARING of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Hebrews 9:28 “Jesus will APPEAR a 2nd time {And not a 3rd TIME!} to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him!” Colossians 1:2; 3:4: “To the holy and faithful brothers in Christ.... When Christ, who is your life APPEARS, then you also will APPEAR with Him in glory.” I John 3:2,3: “When Jesus APPEARS, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. Everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure!!” Matthew 24:29,30: Jesus says, “IMMEDIATELY AFTER the distress of those days {The Great Tribulation} the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky. At that time the sign of the Son of Man will APPEAR in the sky and the nations will SEE* the Son of Man COMING on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory!!” I John 2:28: “Dear children, continue in Him, so that when He APPEARS WE may be confident and unashamed before Him at His COMING!” {See 2 Thess 1:7-10; I Tim 6:14; Heb 9:28 & Col 3:4} 2 Tim 4:8: Paul said, There is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on THAT DAY—and not only to me, but to ALL who have longed for His APPEARING!!” I Peter 5:4: “When the Chief Shepherd APPEARS, you will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away!” 2 Thess 1:1,6-10: ‘To the CHURCH* of the Thessalonians…God is just; He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen WHEN the Lord Jesus is REVEALED {See I Peter 1:13} from heaven in blazing fire…. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting DESTRUCTION and shut out from the presence of the Lord ON THE DAY HE COMES to be glorified in His holy people!!” A meeting at an appointed place and time is called a RENDEZVOUS. We have a RENDEZVOUS with eternity at the glorious APPEARING and REVEALING of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ *IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Great Tribulation.
2/3/2013 12:12:09 PM	A Passage From Josephus
prophetic774 Winter Haven, FL 66, joined Feb. 2011	THE GREAT COMMISSION: Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, “All authority in heaven and on EARTH has been given to Me {Not some RC Pope}. Therefore go and make disciples of ALL NATIONS...teaching them to OBEY EVERYTHING* I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very END OF THE AGE!” THE HARVEST IS THE END OF THE AGE! Matthew 13:39-43: Jesus says, “The Harvest is the END OF THE AGE and the harvesters are ANGELS. As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the END OF THE AGE. The Son of Man will send out His ANGELS, and they will weed out of His kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. THEN the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father!” I Corinthians 15:22-24: “For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits, then when He comes, those who belong to Him. Then the END will come, when He hands over the Kingdom to God the Father after He has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.” And so when Jesus comes again at the END OF THE AGE He will hand over the Kingdom to God the Father! Mark 13:10 Jesus says, “The AGE TO COME is Eternal Life!”I Timothy 6:19: In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the COMING AGE, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life!” THE DISCIPLES ASKED JESUS, “WHAT WILL BE THE SIGN OF YOUR COMING AND THE END OF THE AGE??” Is it a pre-trib rapture or the persecution and testing of God's saints and a great falling away at the beginning of the Great Tribulation?? Matthew 24:3,9-13: The disciples asked Jesus, “What will be the sign of your Coming and the END OF THE AGE?? Jesus answered….. {During the 1260-dayGreat Tribulation} “Then YOU will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and YOU will be hated by all nations because of Me. At that time many will turn away from the Faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of MOST* will grow cold,{THE GREAT APOSTASY} but he {The Called, Chosen & Faithful-Rev 17:14b} who stands firm to the END will be saved. This gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to ALL NATIONS, and then the END will come!” And then we find just before the beginning of the 1260-day Great tribulation that there will be saints saved by the blood of Jesus from EVERY Tribe, Language and Nation: Revelation 5:9: “You {Jesus} are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from EVERY Tribe, Language, People and Nation!” Just after the coming of the 4 Horsemen in Revelation 6:1-8 and just after the start of the 1260-day Great tribulation; we see this scene in Heaven: Rev 6:9-11: When He {Jesus) opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain {MARTYRS} because of the Word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until You judge the inhabitanrts of the earth and avenge our blood?” Then each of them was given a WHITE ROBE, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed {Martyrs just like Jesus} as they had been was completed! Rev 8:9, 13,14: After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count from EVERY nation, tribe and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing WHITE ROBES......Then one of the {24- See Rev 4:4,10} elders asked me, “These in WHITE ROBES—who are they and where do they come from?”...And he said, “These are they who come out of the Great Tribulatoion {Tribulation MARTYRS}; they have washed their ROBES and made them WHITE in the blood of the Lamb. At present the God's Word has only been translated into about 2,000 of the 6,000 languages in the world and faith comes by hearing and reading the Word of God! And so this prophecy in Matthew 24:13 above which must take place BEFORE the Harvest and 2nd Coming of Jesus will only be fulfilled DURING the Great Tribulation! The Heavenly rewards for the faithful and courageous MARTYRS* is one of the most important central themes in the book of Revelation. For they will reign with Jesus in Heaven and according to Revelation 7:14-17: They are before the Throne of God and God will spread His tent over them before the Second Coming of Jesus. They will receive WHITE ROBES washed in the blood of the Lamb. Never again will they hunger or thirst and God Himself will wipe every tear from their eyes. Jesus will be their Shepherd and will lead them to springs of Living Water.
2/3/2013 6:57:42 PM	A Passage From Josephus
tomdl56 Lebanon, PA 61, joined Sep. 2012	And you are posting the same things here. What do you do, go from topic to topic posting the same stuff over and over again. Not anymore, not in my topics. If you want to do that, start your own topics. If I see one more repeat, you will be blocked.
2/3/2013 7:06:25 PM	A Passage From Josephus
tomdl56 Lebanon, PA 61, joined Sep. 2012	Quote from bigd9832: It seems ol tom is getting to his wits end. So far he has not presented any evidence that Jesus has returned. I agreed that the events of Matt 24 has taken place. I just don't agree with his conclusions. And so far, ol tom has offered nothing to show that Jesus has already returned. No matter how tired he gets. So you agree that the events of Matthew 24 have happened. There's your proof. In Matthew 24.29, Jesus said, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days...." You have already admitted that the tribulation of those days are past. So, what does "immediately" mean? If the sun was not darkened, etc., and the sign of the Son of Man didn't appear in the sky, and the Son of Man was seen in the clouds, then "Immediately after..." is a lie. So, the proof is that Jesus is not a liar.
2/3/2013 9:02:31 PM	A Passage From Josephus
prophetic774 Winter Haven, FL 66, joined Feb. 2011	2 days before his crucifixion Jesus gave the famous Mount of Olives sermon prophecies on April 1 AD 33. The prophecies in this sermon are recorded in Matthew 24 and 25, Mark 13 and Luke 21:5-37. In Matthew 24;1,2, Mark 13;1,2 and Luke 21:5,6 Jesus prophesies that the present Jewish Temple will be completely destroyed. Then in Matthew 24:3 the discipleas asked Jesus {2} questions {1} "When will this happen? {Or when will the Jewish Temple be destroyed} and {2} "What will be the sign of your Coming and the End of the Age?" Jesus answered question number {1} in Matthew 24:34; Mark 13:30 and Luke 21:32 where Jesus said "This generation {April AD 33 to October AD 70} will not pass away untill all these things have happened." "All these things that happened" in September to October AD 70 concerning the destruction of the Temple and events just before this took place; are recorded ONLY in Luke 21:20-24: Jesus prophesied, "When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the country not enter the city {It took the Roman army about 6 days to completely encircle Jerusalem} For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.... There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. They will fall by the sword and will taken as prisoners to all the nations, Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled." The times of the Gentiles ended on June 7th 1967 when the Jews took complete control of Jerusalem after 1897 years of Gentile rule. All of the other prophecies in the Olivet Sermon of Jesus have obviously nothing to do with the destruction of the Temple in AD 70 and only refers to the Tribulation during the 1260-day Great Tribulation immediately before the 2nd Coming of Jesus and events that will take place on the Last Day at the 2nd Coming of Jesus such as Matthew 24:9-14, Matthew 24:29-31 and Matthew 25:31-46: Matthew 24:3,9-13: The disciples asked Jesus, “What will be the sign of your Coming and the END OF THE AGE?? Jesus answered….. {During the 1260-day Great Tribulation} “Then YOU will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and YOU will be hated by all nations because of Me. At that time many will turn away from the Faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of MOST* will grow cold,{THE GREAT APOSTASY} but he {The Called, Chosen & Faithful-Rev 17:14b} who stands firm to the END will be saved. This gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to ALL NATIONS* {This did not occur in AD 70!}, and then the END will come!” THE GREAT COMMISSION: Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, “All authority in heaven and on EARTH has been given to Me {Not some RC Pope}. Therefore go and make disciples of ALL NATIONS...teaching them to OBEY EVERYTHING I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very END OF THE AGE!” THE HARVEST IS THE END OF THE AGE! Matthew 13:39-43: Jesus says, “The Harvest is the END OF THE AGE and the harvesters are ANGELS. As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the END OF THE AGE. The Son of Man will send out His ANGELS, and they will weed out of His kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. THEN the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father!” I Corinthians 15:22-24: “For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits, then when He comes, those who belong to Him. Then the END will come, when He hands over the Kingdom to God the Father after He has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.” And so when Jesus comes again at the END OF THE AGE He will hand over the Kingdom to God the Father! Mark 13:10 Jesus says, “The AGE TO COME is Eternal Life!”I Timothy 6:19: In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the COMING AGE, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life!”
2/4/2013 9:55:23 AM	A Passage From Josephus
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 64, joined Oct. 2007	Quote from tomdl56: And you are posting the same things here. What do you do, go from topic to topic posting the same stuff over and over again. Not anymore, not in my topics. If you want to do that, start your own topics. If I see one more repeat, you will be blocked. I understand your frustration. You have not been able to answer my posts with any knowledge or evidence... just hot air. Consequently you are looking for a way out. But the fact is, that I have posted copies on my own threads, and not your's. It is unfortunate that I have to go over the same material again and again because you and some of your buddies here are just not getting what I am saying. I mean look, it took you this long to figure out that I do beleive the events of Matt 24 did occurr. That was only after, what, 10 or so posts? But you do whatever you fel is necessary. It won't stop me. I will keep quoting you and exposing your mis-information.
2/4/2013 10:00:42 AM	A Passage From Josephus
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 64, joined Oct. 2007	Quote from tomdl56: So you agree that the events of Matthew 24 have happened. There's your proof. In Matthew 24.29, Jesus said, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days...." You have already admitted that the tribulation of those days are past. So, what does "immediately" mean? If the sun was not darkened, etc., and the sign of the Son of Man didn't appear in the sky, and the Son of Man was seen in the clouds, then "Immediately after..." is a lie. So, the proof is that Jesus is not a liar. I suggest that our friend tomdl56 uses the KJV because it agrees with his theories, even if it is not what we call accurately translated. In many of my past posts I have exposed many of the flaws of the English translations in the KJV. The most marked expression is that of the Ancient Hebrew term 'sheol,' which is translated as "hell," "grave," and "pit" according to the whims of the translators (or the king). CLV Mt 24:29 Now immediately after the affliction of those days the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not be giving her beams, and the stars shall be falling from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. Notice the absence of the word "tribulation?" With this word replaced with a more accurate term, we can begin to cast doubt on tomdl56's erroneous conclusions.
2/4/2013 5:42:37 PM	A Passage From Josephus
tomdl56 Lebanon, PA 61, joined Sep. 2012	Quote from bigd9832: I suggest that our friend tomdl56 uses the KJV because it agrees with his theories, even if it is not what we call accurately translated. In many of my past posts I have exposed many of the flaws of the English translations in the KJV. The most marked expression is that of the Ancient Hebrew term 'sheol,' which is translated as "hell," "grave," and "pit" according to the whims of the translators (or the king). CLV Mt 24:29 Now immediately after the affliction of those days the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not be giving her beams, and the stars shall be falling from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. Notice the absence of the word "tribulation?" With this word replaced with a more accurate term, we can begin to cast doubt on tomdl56's erroneous conclusions. What's the difference between affliction and tribulation?

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