What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?

5/17/2014 6:59:42 PM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
walt_oftheearth Avondale, AZ 62, joined Feb. 2008	I know there have been many religious date setters gullible people have listened to and been deceived--and discouraged--by. There are also folk who presume to know so much about the writings in Revelation, and there are as many interpretations as their are interpreters. But what of the attributes of the Bible that shows it's reliability & trustworthiness in prophecy, the foretelling of things by God, through the inspiration of prophets? I admit, some prophecies are complicated, but today I wanted to show one very important one that is quite clear. And it's ultimate fulfillment may be right upon us. Isaiah 42:8-10 English Standard Version (ESV) "I am the Lord; that is my name; my glory I give to no other, nor my praise to carved idols. "Behold, the former things have come to pass, and new things I now declare; before they spring forth I tell you of them.” One of the most miraculous prophecies in scripture I know of is found in the Old Testament book of Daniel. Note particularly at the end of the text below the image, the words "a stone was cut out by no human hand." When I read that, I sometimes get shivers because here are Jesus words about the same thing (found in both the Gospel of Matthew 21:44 & Luke 20:18). Notice, Jesus refers to a prophecy concerning Himself (Psalm 118:22-23): "What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner? Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder." Quite sobering words, there, folk! [URL=http://s369.photobucket.com/user/iseebeauty/media/METALMAN_zps29fde31b.jpg.html][/URL] Daniel 2:31-45 English Standard Version (ESV) "You saw, O king, and behold, a great image. This image, mighty and of exceeding brightness, stood before you, and its appearance was frightening. The head of this image was of fine gold, its chest and arms of silver, its middle and thighs of bronze, its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay. As you looked, a stone was cut out by no human hand, and it struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces. Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold, all together were broken in pieces, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, so that not a trace of them could be found. But the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth." Keep in mind the words "feet of iron and clay." In forthcoming posts I will include the prophet Daniel's interpretation of this dream of Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar. It will become apparent what the feet of iron and clay is. [Edited 5/17/2014 7:01:53 PM ] Meet singles at DateHookup.dating, we're 100% free! Join now!
5/17/2014 7:04:56 PM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
wayn49 Birmingham, AL 55, joined Feb. 2011	prophecy always amazes me, good post
5/17/2014 7:38:15 PM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
walt_oftheearth Avondale, AZ 62, joined Feb. 2008	Quote from wayn49: prophecy always amazes me, good post It IS amazing, Wayne!
5/17/2014 7:40:12 PM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
sail_dancer Saint Petersburg, FL 69, joined Apr. 2010	Quote from walt_oftheearth: It IS amazing, Wayne! It is nonsense! Peace
5/17/2014 7:42:39 PM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
walt_oftheearth Avondale, AZ 62, joined Feb. 2008	Quote from sail_dancer: It is nonsense! Why do you say this biblical prophecy in Daniel is nonsense, Sail? [Edited 5/17/2014 7:42:59 PM ]
5/17/2014 7:49:16 PM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
sail_dancer Saint Petersburg, FL 69, joined Apr. 2010	Quote from walt_oftheearth: Why do you say this biblical prophecy in Daniel is nonsense, Sail? If you have to ask that question ..... you have probably never truthfully looked into christianity's mythical prophecies ..... Because of your indoctrination of christian dogma. Do a few Google searches about the validity of prophecy ..... the answers are there if you are really interested in getting that complete picture. Peace
5/17/2014 7:59:30 PM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
walt_oftheearth Avondale, AZ 62, joined Feb. 2008	Quote from walt_oftheearth: Why do you say this biblical prophecy in Daniel is nonsense, Sail? Quote from sail_dancer: If you have to ask that question ..... you have probably never truthfully looked into christianity's mythical prophecies ..... Because of your indoctrination of christian dogma. I haven't been indoctrinated, Sail. I've read/ studied and contemplated upon these things myself. It's become personal, deeply meaningful, and filled with hope. If there is anything the world needs right now is hope. The Daniel prophecy provides hope. It tells how--and when--the history of the world will end, and a glorious, real, physical kingdom of God will begin.
5/17/2014 8:23:53 PM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
sail_dancer Saint Petersburg, FL 69, joined Apr. 2010	Quote from walt_oftheearth: The Daniel prophecy provides hope. It tells how--and when--the history of the world will end, and a glorious, real, physical kingdom of God will begin. You should make an appointment to see a licensed professional mental health professional. Peace
5/17/2014 8:30:08 PM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
wayn49 Birmingham, AL 55, joined Feb. 2011	Quote from sail_dancer: If you have to ask that question ..... you have probably never truthfully looked into christianity's mythical prophecies ..... Because of your indoctrination of christian dogma. Do a few Google searches about the validity of prophecy ..... the answers are there if you are really interested in getting that complete picture. Peace[/quote was Daniels vision given real? based on study and history every detail of prophecy has come to pass right on time
5/17/2014 8:42:30 PM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
sail_dancer Saint Petersburg, FL 69, joined Apr. 2010	Quote from wayn49: was Daniels vision given real? based on study and history every detail of prophecy has come to pass right on time Prove your claims! Peace
5/17/2014 9:01:38 PM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
walt_oftheearth Avondale, AZ 62, joined Feb. 2008	Quote from walt_oftheearth: The Daniel prophecy provides hope. It tells how--and when--the history of the world will end, and a glorious, real, physical kingdom of God will begin. Quote from sail_dancer: You should make an appointment to see a licensed professional mental health professional.Peace Come, now, Sail. Psychologists, unless they are Christian psychologists, would of course, as you surmise, conclude that I am delusional. But I am not delusional. I simply believe. Here are words written by the Apostle Peter, someone who walked with Christ for over 3 years and came to know beyond doubt that He was the foreseen Messiah, incarnate God that came to personally rescue mankind. Would you also say that he needed to see a mental health professional? Here is what he wrote about Biblical prophecy.... 2 Peter 1:19-21 English Standard Version (ESV) "We have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."
5/17/2014 9:05:58 PM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
sail_dancer Saint Petersburg, FL 69, joined Apr. 2010	Quote from walt_oftheearth: Quote from walt_oftheearth: The Daniel prophecy provides hope. It tells how--and when--the history of the world will end, and a glorious, real, physical kingdom of God will begin. Quote from sail_dancer: You should make an appointment to see a licensed professional mental health professional.Peace Come, now, Sail. Psychologists, unless they are Christian psychologists, would of course, as you surmise, conclude that I am delusional. But I am not delusional. I simply believe. Here are words written by the Apostle Peter, someone who walked with Christ for over 3 years and came to know beyond doubt that He was the foreseen Messiah, incarnate God that came to personally rescue mankind. Would you also say that he needed to see a mental health professional? Here is what he wrote about Biblical prophecy.... 2 Peter 1:19-21 English Standard Version (ESV) "We have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit." All you keep doing is using your bible to justify your mythical dogma ..... have you ever heard of circular reasoning? Peace
5/17/2014 9:40:34 PM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
wayn49 Birmingham, AL 55, joined Feb. 2011	okay, Daniel saw a vision of 4 great beast or 4 world empires. who were they? and when did they rule? well history gives you the answer. and i will come back later with answers
5/17/2014 9:49:50 PM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
walt_oftheearth Avondale, AZ 62, joined Feb. 2008	Here is the biblical prophet Daniel's interpretation of Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar's dream of the image he saw in his night visions..... [URL=http://s369.photobucket.com/user/iseebeauty/media/METALMAN_zps29fde31b.jpg.html][/URL] Daniel 2:31-45 English Standard Version (ESV) ..... “This was the dream. Now we will tell the king its interpretation. You, O king, the king of kings, to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the power, and the might, and the glory, and into whose hand he has given, wherever they dwell, the children of man, the beasts of the field, and the birds of the heavens, making you rule over them all—you are the head of gold. Another kingdom inferior to you shall arise after you, and yet a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth. And there shall be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron, because iron breaks to pieces and shatters all things. And like iron that crushes, it shall break and crush all these. And as you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter's clay and partly of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom, but some of the firmness of iron shall be in it, just as you saw iron mixed with the soft clay. And as the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly brittle. As you saw the iron mixed with soft clay, so they will mix with one another in marriage, but they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay. [It is obvious, the feet of iron and clay are the divided kingdoms of Europe. Through inter marriage, through countless attempts to conquer, Europe to this day remains divided--just as was foretold] And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever, just as you saw that a stone was cut from a mountain by no human hand, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold. A great God has made known to the king what shall be after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation sure.” *How many certain, sure things do we know today dear folk?*
5/17/2014 10:15:14 PM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
sail_dancer Saint Petersburg, FL 69, joined Apr. 2010	Quote from walt_oftheearth: And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever, just as you saw that a stone was cut from a mountain by no human hand, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold. A great God has made known to the king what shall be after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation sure.” *How many certain, sure things do we know today dear folk?* ........................................ I can't stop laughing! ........................................ Peace
5/17/2014 10:23:40 PM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
walt_oftheearth Avondale, AZ 62, joined Feb. 2008	Quote from sail_dancer: ........................................ I can't stop laughing! ........................................ Peace What if you one day find out that God gets the last laugh, Sail?
5/17/2014 10:38:01 PM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
sail_dancer Saint Petersburg, FL 69, joined Apr. 2010	Quote from walt_oftheearth: What if you one day find out that God gets the last laugh, Sail? Is it possible to laugh in the spirit world christianity has whipped up for us? What if you one day find out that there is a god but he/she/it is one of the 3,000+ other gods known to man? I love it when christians have to resort to playing "The What If Game"! Peace
5/17/2014 11:14:40 PM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
pgdsc Jackson, OH 53, joined Apr. 2014	Quote from sail_dancer: Is it possible to laugh in the spirit world christianity hababywhipped up for us? Peace Actually, sail, yes it's possible. God sent His angel to Abraham's wife, Sarah to tell her she was going to have a baby after being barren all of her life (she was 90), and she laughed. She indeed had a baby and named him Isaac which means laughter. I always say that God has a sense of humor, after all, he created me. Lol
5/18/2014 1:39:34 PM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
wayn49 Birmingham, AL 55, joined Feb. 2011	walt many people are not going to get it. and its there right. those of us who claim to be a christian, we should live the example and show love regardless. i have brought up these same prophecies a lot and many just do not understand it. i say to all who Believe in Jesus show them the love of Jesus
5/18/2014 2:25:34 PM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
walt_oftheearth Avondale, AZ 62, joined Feb. 2008	Quote from sail_dancer: What if you one day find out that there is a god but he/she/it is one of the 3,000+ other gods known to man? Of course, people have been inventing gods throughout history. Usually it's an image of some sort, like the molten calf the Israelites made when Moses did not return from the mountain. Impatient, and maybe through fear, they make with their own hands, something to worship. That's not the creator God revealed in scripture. Quote from sail_dancer: I love it when christians have to resort to playing "The What If Game"! In fairness, I guess I could ask myself the same question. What if it turns out that the God revealed in scripture does not exist? What will I have lost? Eternal life, yes,.. but not the life of belief and faith and hope and love that I daily live. That will not have been lost.
5/18/2014 2:27:17 PM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
xashax Union, NH 45, joined May. 2009	What if you chose the wrong god? Then you stand to lose quite a bit.
5/18/2014 2:46:16 PM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
walt_oftheearth Avondale, AZ 62, joined Feb. 2008	Quote from xashax: What if you chose the wrong god? Then you stand to lose quite a bit. That was kind of what I was getting at, Xashax, when I asked sail "what if he were to find out God gets the last laugh?" As far as choosing a God, I love what Jesus said when He spoke "You have not chosen me, but I have chosen you." So this relationship with God is initiated and maintained by God. That's what I take from Jesus referring to himself as the Good Shepherd. He watches over and cares for His sheep. He calls them each by name. It's not very flattering to the human ego to be viewed as a sheep, but there is something there for us to contemplate. Isn't it nice to know there is a God that wants to watch over us? Even if something bad happens to us, we're still in His hands, forever. It says that the plan of salvation was already known to God before this world was created. So, God, omniscient, all knowing, knew what would go wrong, but still decided to create this world and humans. He decided to do so even though He knew how much it would cost.
5/18/2014 3:35:06 PM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
xashax Union, NH 45, joined May. 2009	Quote from walt_oftheearth: That was kind of what I was getting at, Xashax, when I asked sail "what if he were to find out God gets the last laugh?" As far as choosing a God, I love what Jesus said when He spoke "You have not chosen me, but I have chosen you." So this relationship with God is initiated and maintained by God. That's what I take from Jesus referring to himself as the Good Shepherd. He watches over and cares for His sheep. He calls them each by name. It's not very flattering to the human ego to be viewed as a sheep, but there is something there for us to contemplate. Isn't it nice to know there is a God that wants to watch over us? Even if something bad happens to us, we're still in His hands, forever. It says that the plan of salvation was already known to God before this world was created. So, God, omniscient, all knowing, knew what would go wrong, but still decided to create this world and humans. He decided to do so even though He knew how much it would cost. I'm not totally sure that would make sense if the idea proposed was that your own particular chosen deity, Yahweh may have been a clever invention of a nomadic Bedouin tribe only about a mere 3000 years ago. What if you were wrong after all and it was a goddess figure or even Allah? Difficult to say how forgiving any of these entities would be so you can hardly claim you have "lost nothing." He or shes last laugh may be that you chose unwisely in a three shell game. None of us can know this. Death in itself may constitute nothing more than the forfeiture of life. That's all any of us can perceive while we remain "upon this mortal coil". We all face the same end fate it's just that some of us will require far less, if any comforting in this realization and are willing to accept their eventual termination sans externally imposed paternal supreme beings and what not. Just sayin'
5/18/2014 7:03:46 PM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
wayn49 Birmingham, AL 55, joined Feb. 2011	Quote from xashax: What if you chose the wrong god? Then you stand to lose quite a bit. i thought there was only one God
5/18/2014 7:07:22 PM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
walt_oftheearth Avondale, AZ 62, joined Feb. 2008	Quote from xashax: I'm not totally sure that would make sense if the idea proposed was that your own particular chosen deity, Yahweh may have been a clever invention of a nomadic Bedouin tribe only about a mere 3000 years ago. What if you were wrong after all and it was a goddess figure or even Allah? Difficult to say how forgiving any of these entities would be so you can hardly claim you have "lost nothing." He or shes last laugh may be that you chose unwisely in a three shell game. None of us can know this. Death in itself may constitute nothing more than the forfeiture of life. That's all any of us can perceive while we remain "upon this mortal coil". We all face the same end fate it's just that some of us will require far less, if any comforting in this realization and are willing to accept their eventual termination sans externally imposed paternal supreme beings and what not. Just sayin' Thanks, Xashax. I appreciate your well thought out and written post. I believe in a God revealed in the Bible because when I read the words of Christ, I realize that "no one has ever spoken like this 'man'." I am not a person with great faith. I am a person with a little faith in a great God.
5/18/2014 7:28:27 PM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
wayn49 Birmingham, AL 55, joined Feb. 2011	like walt pointed out about the great image... babylon ruled from 605 BC to 539 BC media-persia ruled from 539 BC to 331 BC greece ruled from 331 BC to 168 BC rome ruled from 168 BC to 476 AD rome fell into 10 smaller divisions from 351 AD to 476 AD. three of those kingdoms were destroyed by another power that arose during and after rome fell into 10 kingdoms. those three were the huruli, the vandals and ostrogoths the other power that was emerging as rome fell was papal rome. it officially became a leading power in 508 AD but became a church and state power in 538 AD. you can read about the dark ages online and read about the persecutions that took place during a dark time in history which lasted up to around 1798. of course many were looking for a way to escape. and many came to a new country of america that sprung up swiftly. if you really want to understand prophecy you need to also look at the book of revelation. because they go hand in hand. and one day in the future God sets up his kingdom that stands forever and thats the day to look forward to is all this true, i really believe so
5/18/2014 7:31:23 PM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
wayn49 Birmingham, AL 55, joined Feb. 2011	Quote from walt_oftheearth: Thanks, Xashax. I appreciate your well thought out and written post. I believe in a God revealed in the Bible because when I read the words of Christ, I realize that "no one has ever spoken like this 'man'." I am not a person with great faith. I am a person with a little faith in a great God. i agree with you a man of little faith in a great God thats me as well [Edited 5/18/2014 7:33:04 PM ]
5/18/2014 7:38:33 PM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
xashax Union, NH 45, joined May. 2009	Quote from walt_oftheearth: Thanks, Xashax. I appreciate your well thought out and written post. I believe in a God revealed in the Bible because when I read the words of Christ, I realize that "no one has ever spoken like this 'man'." I am not a person with great faith. I am a person with a little faith in a great God. Fair enough but quite a different sentiment than believing you have nothing to lose. If you had been born in Saudi Arabia, you may have been devoted to Allah from birth. Gods, and the faith that people may place in them, is regionally specific.
5/19/2014 3:21:46 AM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
sail_dancer Saint Petersburg, FL 69, joined Apr. 2010	Quote from walt_oftheearth: I am not a person with great faith. I am a person with a little faith in a great God. Actually ..... I see you as a person with little faith but great delusions ..... in a sick but mythical God. Peace
5/19/2014 4:00:34 AM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
vanir Victoria Australia 47, joined Mar. 2008	But walt, you misrepresent Isaiah. He was speaking specifically to the Israelites exiled to Babylon by Nebudchanezzar, regarding their redemption one day back to the land of Israel nation in the spirit of their forefathers. It is contemporary prophecy specifically for exiled Babylonian Jews in the 8th century BC. It is very specific about this. He was definitely not speaking to you about events beyond the 21st century involving you or anything to do with you. That's so far beyond intellectual rationalisation it is pure delusion and fantasy. Isaiah 42 in particular is a roadmap specifically for exiled Jews in Babylon to retain a confident faith in their cultural identity without corruption. Again it is very specific about this. It has nothing to do with you or anything about you. How is it you simply woke up one day and chose to be so arrogant as to try to pilfer and thieve another culture's religion and sense of identity? Are you a fking 8th century BC jewish exile? No? So shut the fk up and try being proud of yourself instead of lying about who you are. You do that by doing things you're proud of. Not stealing things other people are proud of. Asshole. That's basically how I feel about christians running around quoting the old testament like they've the slightest idea what they're even talking about, or have any right to claim they do.
5/19/2014 5:24:43 AM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
sail_dancer Saint Petersburg, FL 69, joined Apr. 2010	Quote from pgdsc: Actually, sail, yes it's possible. God sent His angel to Abraham's wife, Sarah to tell her she was going to have a baby after being barren all of her life (she was 90), and she laughed. She indeed had a baby and named him Isaac which means laughter. I always say that God has a sense of humor, after all, he created me. Lol Why did you alter the words that you quoted as being mine? Peace
5/19/2014 5:34:27 AM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
dipthong Montgomery, AL 48, joined Jul. 2011	Hey Walt and others interested in prophecy if you haven't seen the video posted in "here's your proof" thread you might want to take a look. We have been given a warning and it shows a lot of prophecy being fulfilled in these days.
5/19/2014 7:03:19 AM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
xashax Union, NH 45, joined May. 2009	From what I had read, there were several compelling arguments made against that video and none rebutted. It wasn't as if it was posted and everyone sat there in stunned silence.
5/19/2014 7:47:03 AM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
dipthong Montgomery, AL 48, joined Jul. 2011	I just went back and read the posts the 2 people that watched it said nothing to refute what I said and enjoyed it. The rest was bickering about proof and then a shift to the shroud. We care equally about each others thoughts on the matter though you have no need to just lie about what was not said. If your not interested fine I'm not sure I can care any less. [Edited 5/19/2014 7:48:38 AM ]
5/19/2014 7:56:16 AM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
xashax Union, NH 45, joined May. 2009	I went back and had yet another look and I had early on informed you that I could not view your video due to computer issues and could you kindly provide a summation in your own words. Nothing was forthcoming. Then several valid arguments were put forth from that point forward against the video's content for which no satisfactory rebuttal was offered from yourself. Then there was a shift in discussion to the Shroud of Turin which also lacked any sort of refutation on your part, sir. A compelling argument being there as well. I appreciate your attention to detail however. [Edited 5/19/2014 7:57:07 AM ]
5/19/2014 8:03:53 AM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
jrbogie1949 Ventura, CA 68, joined Mar. 2009	back on topic, i don't rely on the bible to see what lay ahead but i sure would like just one copy of tomorrow's wall street journal.
5/19/2014 8:19:51 AM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
wayn49 Birmingham, AL 55, joined Feb. 2011	I think Jesus is on his way so that should make interesting
5/19/2014 8:24:53 AM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
xashax Union, NH 45, joined May. 2009	Quote from wayn49: I think Jesus is on his way so that should make interesting How so when Jesus, Peter and Paul all were under the impression that this was imminent?
5/19/2014 8:26:53 AM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
pgdsc Jackson, OH 53, joined Apr. 2014	Quote from sail_dancer: Why did you alter the words that you quoted as being mine? Peace I'm sorry, sail. I went back to see what you were talking about. I meant to quote part of your post. I just recently got this stupid android and somehow, it messed it up. I wish I'd caught that, I would have corrected it. It was not intentional, I promise. Actually, I have a lot of respect for you, jr, and asanb and everyone. I've been following the 'cross' thread since Walt created it, and you ask great questions. You deserve honest answers to those questions. I'll be honest,, yes, I'm a Christian, and no, I don't have all the answers. I've read the Bible, studied it somewhat, when I have a question of my own, I study and read it, searching the answer, and then I go on with life. I don't constantly stay immersed in the Bible, or books by ministers giving their opinions of what the scriptures mean. I figure that I have God given reasoning sense, with His help, I can figure things out. I believe that's how everyone should approach it. Stop the nonstop researching of what others say the Bible means, stand on your own faith and use your own intelligence. I think people who do that (nonstop studying) tend to stay depressed. Read, study the Bible thn get out and be active in life. The answers come when you least expect them. OT- I subscribe to this : Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. Matthew 6:34
5/19/2014 9:31:27 AM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
pgdsc Jackson, OH 53, joined Apr. 2014	Quote from xashax: What if you chose the wrong god? Then you stand to lose quite a bit. Quote from wayn49: i thought there was only one God Wayne, If this were so, the Commandments wouldn' t include, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." Xashax, a god is anything you put 1st and foremost in your life. Whether, a job, a tv show, whatever.. if it is your primary concern and first and foremost, it either is, or becomes a 'god'.
5/19/2014 10:44:17 AM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
sail_dancer Saint Petersburg, FL 69, joined Apr. 2010	Quote from pgdsc: Wayne, If this were so, the Commandments wouldn' t include, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." And notice ..... it doesn't say "false gods before me"! Peace
5/19/2014 11:09:36 AM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
lickerpoet Hialeah, FL 56, joined Dec. 2009	I can tell you exactly what will lay ahead. There will be illiterate peoples, and a disproportionate percentage will be bible thumpers. his·to·ry/'h?st?ri, 'h?stri/ Show Spelled [his-tuh-ree, his-tree] Show IPA noun, plural his·to·ries. 1. the branch of knowledge dealing with past events. 2. a continuous, systematic narrative of past events as relating to a particular people, country, period, person, etc., usually written as a chronological account; chronicle: a history of France; a medical history of the patient. 3. the aggregate of past events. 4. the record of past events and times, especially in connection with the human race. 5. a past notable for its important, unusual, or interesting events: a ship with a history. What, according to the bible, lay ahead in the World's past ? Saddest thing is that these same intellectually challenged bible thumpers vote to elect our governing officials, also disporportionately to the percentage they comprise of the eligible voting population.
5/19/2014 1:15:27 PM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
wayn49 Birmingham, AL 55, joined Feb. 2011	Quote from pgdsc: Wayne, If this were so, the Commandments wouldn' t include, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." Xashax, a god is anything you put 1st and foremost in your life. Whether, a job, a tv show, whatever.. if it is your primary concern and first and foremost, it either is, or becomes a 'god'. sure because God is the only true God
5/19/2014 1:16:44 PM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
wayn49 Birmingham, AL 55, joined Feb. 2011	Quote from xashax: How so when Jesus, Peter and Paul all were under the impression that this was imminent? i meant it should be interesting on the wall street journal
5/19/2014 2:51:24 PM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
lickerpoet Hialeah, FL 56, joined Dec. 2009	Quote from walt_oftheearth: I know there have been many religious date setters gullible people have listened to and been deceived-- One of the most miraculous prophecies in scripture I know of is found in the Old Testament book of Daniel. Note particularly at the end of the text below the image, the words "a stone was cut out by no human hand." When I read that, I sometimes get shivers because here are Jesus words about the same thing (found in both the Gospel of Matthew 21:44 & Luke 20:18). Notice, Jesus refers to a prophecy concerning Himself (Psalm 118:22-23): " Keep in mind the words "feet of iron and clay." In forthcoming posts I will include the prophet Daniel's interpretation of this dream of Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar. It will become apparent what the feet of iron and clay is. Speaking of gullible, Daniel was not a book of prophecy...hold on to your bibles.....Daniel was a book of history. Daniel was written about 164 BCE. We know from the presence of Greek instruments and other Greek objects that Daniel was written after the Helenization by Alexander the Great. This date is confirmed by the more advanced stage of development of the language, the vernacular. Language changes with time. Daniel is a book of history, not prophecy. Is there are biblical, scriptural knowledge that you have a grasp of that is based on reality?
5/19/2014 9:12:33 PM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
clarencec South Yorkshire United Kingdom 59, joined Oct. 2008	. Quote from walt_oftheearth: I know there have been many religious date setters gullible people have listened to and been deceived--and discouraged--by. There are also folk who presume to know so much about the writings in Revelation, and there are as many interpretations as their are interpreters. What is advisable if you wish to better understand apocalyptic literature like the book of Revelation is read some critical Bible scholarship. You'll find that those works employ certain literary devices, contain cultural influences from invading empires and were written as a response to times of severe stress for the covenant community. For example, the way Satan becomes a fallen angel and the arch enemy of God in Christianity when he was no such thing in the Hebrew Bible is thought to be the result of influence from Persian duallistic theology, as is the apocalyptic genre's stark separation of humans into good and evil factions — saved and unsaved in modern Christian parlance. But what of the attributes of the Bible that shows it's reliability & trustworthiness in prophecy, the foretelling of things by God, through the inspiration of prophets? I admit, some prophecies are complicated, but today I wanted to show one very important one that is quite clear. And it's ultimate fulfillment may be right upon us. Isaiah 42:8-10 English Standard Version (ESV) "I am the Lord; that is my name; my glory I give to no other, nor my praise to carved idols. "Behold, the former things have come to pass, and new things I now declare; before they spring forth I tell you of them.” Hmm. I think Yahweh was wrong about carved idols. He's a bit of a Philistine on art appreciation. Egyptian sculpture is spectacularly good, while Hebrew art from the same period is like something a five year old might fashion out of clay at school. Still, I suppose the Hebs have the edge with the quality of their literature. An Asherah figurine yesterday.. One of the most miraculous prophecies in scripture I know of is found in the Old Testament book of Daniel. Note particularly at the end of the text below the image, the words "a stone was cut out by no human hand." When I read that, I sometimes get shivers because here are Jesus words about the same thing (found in both the Gospel of Matthew 21:44 & Luke 20:18). Notice, Jesus refers to a prophecy concerning Himself (Psalm 118:22-23): "What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner? Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder." Quite sobering words, there, folk! Daniel 2:31-45 English Standard Version (ESV) "You saw, O king, and behold, a great image. This image, mighty and of exceeding brightness, stood before you, and its appearance was frightening. The head of this image was of fine gold, its chest and arms of silver, its middle and thighs of bronze, its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay. As you looked, a stone was cut out by no human hand, and it struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces. Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold, all together were broken in pieces, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, so that not a trace of them could be found. But the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth." Although there are proto-apocalyptic hints in classic prophetic biblical literature, Daniel is the only book in the Hebrew Bible to have a full blown expression of the genre. This is made understandable by the book's time of writing. Daniel comprises two parts. The first part has six fantastical short stories featuring a fictional hero called Daniel, and is set during the Babylonian and Persian periods, but is adjudged by scholars to be written much later than it's purported setting because it contains numerous historical errors and implausibilities. Chapter 7 onwards comprises a fully apocalyptic work written in response to the Maccabean crisis when the the Jews were viciously persecuted by the Greek-Syrian Seleucid leader Antiochus IV Epiphanes. It's time of writing is estimated at 167 BCE. The first section may have been written earlier, possibly circulating initially in a separate form. Bear in mind that in the story you cite of Nebuchadnezzars dream, the author already knows what empires the statue sections represent. He's writing about known past history but is presenting it as the future in context of the story's period setting. The genre here is a kind of heroic fiction intended to lift the morale of the Jews during a time of foreign occupation and encourage them to stick to their religious values and keep faithful to their God, Yahweh. The appearance of your graphic should probably look like this. Note that Daniel has Nebuchadnezzar's son Belshazzar (who wasn't Nezzar's son, nor was he a king) succeeded by Darius the Mede, which is why we have "Media" for the third section. In reality, Darius the Mede is unknown to history. The Persians had absorbed the Median empire in 550 BCE. This mistake is but one indication that Daniel was written much later than its period setting when memories of actual historical details had badly faded. Keep in mind the words "feet of iron and clay." In forthcoming posts I will include the prophet Daniel's interpretation of this dream of Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar. It will become apparent what the feet of iron and clay is. This reference is about the situation following the death of Alexander the Great when his empire was carved up and parts bequeathed to two of his generals. The Syrian Seleucids and the Egyptian Ptolemies each vied for control of the Near East, hence they didn't mix well, like iron and clay. For a more complete appraisal of the book of Daniel, I'd recommend absorbing this lecture by Christine Hayes, a Professor of religious studies at Yale University. There are video and textual versions. http://oyc.yale.edu/religious-studies/rlst-145/lecture-23 [Edited 5/19/2014 9:14:32 PM ]
5/19/2014 9:34:02 PM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
clarencec South Yorkshire United Kingdom 59, joined Oct. 2008	Tragic editing error. I failed to separate out the quoted section. Keep in mind the words "feet of iron and clay." In forthcoming posts I will include the prophet Daniel's interpretation of this dream of Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar. It will become apparent what the feet of iron and clay is. This reference is about the situation following the death of Alexander the Great when his empire was carved up and parts bequeathed to two of his generals. The Syrian Seleucids and the Egyptian Ptolemies each vied for control of the Near East, hence they didn't mix well, like iron and clay.
5/19/2014 10:15:44 PM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
walt_oftheearth Avondale, AZ 62, joined Feb. 2008	Quote from lickerpoet: Daniel is a book of history, not prophecy Thanks for your post, Poet, but I have to disagree. The book of Daniel is both historical AND prophetic. That's what my opening post showed and is about. Just curious. How do you see it as only historical?
5/20/2014 12:13:07 AM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
lickerpoet Hialeah, FL 56, joined Dec. 2009	Quote from walt_oftheearth: Thanks for your post, Poet, but I have to disagree. The book of Daniel is both historical AND prophetic. That's what my opening post showed and is about. Just curious. How do you see it as only historical? I don't think I can make it any clearer. I guess I will just type it slower so it will sink in. Daniel was written after these events took place. It describes events that had already taken place, ergo, Daniel is an historical or quasi-historical account, not a prophetic one. Below is a link to three learned theologians on the subject of Daniel, or you can just read a snippet from each. Norman Cohn, is a Fellow of the British Academy and Professor Emeritus at Sussex University. "We know quite a lot about how the Book of Daniel came to be written. It was written about 164 B.C., probably by several authors." James Tabor, a professor in the Department of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte. "The Book of Daniel is the apocalyptic book of the Hebrew bible. Its sister book would be the Book of Revelation. And in fact the Book of Revelation is largely a Christian interpretation of the Book of Daniel. Daniel [the character] comes to us from the Babylonian exile. Most academic scholars who study it believe that it was actually composed about 150 years before the time of Jesus, much later than the Babylonian exile. L.Michael White, is Professor of Classics and Christian Origins at the University of Texas at Austin, and acted as historical consultant for "Apocalypse!" "Daniel is actually a figure from the Babylonian exile. In fact, he spends his entire life in Babylon. But the Book of Daniel attributed to him is actually written during the Maccabean revolt. Most scholars would say it's written about the year 165 BCE. and it uses the figure of Daniel as a way of reflecting and intensifying the experiences of the Jewish people in the middle of this crisis." There you have it. Most scholars believe it was written about 164, 165 BCE;not 607 BCE; long after many of the prophesied events had already taken place. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/apocalypse/explanation/bdaniel.html
5/20/2014 2:41:02 AM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
erikbenn Spokane, WA 42, joined Nov. 2010	Walt, the secular world depends on human understanding of the bible, because the secular world rejects the bible itself. they don't want to read the bible, or read it and reject it in favor of worldly understanding. The problem is when you reject truth you believe anything else that comes your way. These so called scholars have only theories about the books of the bible, especially books like Daniel and Revelation. They say these books were written after the fact, without actually reading what is in them. Well lets exam Daniel 12 which is the end time prophecy. Daniel 12 King James Version (KJV) 12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. 4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. 5 Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river. 6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? 7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. 8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. 11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. 13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days. if we examine history we see that knowledge didn't really increase much until the beginning of the 20th Century and then it boomed and boomed exceedingly with the invention of the computer. In the 21st century knowledge is increasing greatly on a daily and yearly basis. No one has been purified yet, because we all sin even today. Now examine verse 11. Some may think this happened at the fall of Jerusalem in 70AD, yes the daily sacrifice was stopped, but the land of Israel was desolate for thousands of years until early 20th century when the Jews started to return to the land of Israel. Now the 1290 days is a different period of time of desolation and before this begins daily sacrifice must also stop. Now there has not been a temple in Jerusalem for over 2000 years so in order for there to be a stopping of daily sacrifice there must be a temple first. So the 1290 period describes a future event that still has yet to happen, because there is still no temple in Jerusalem.
5/20/2014 2:42:40 AM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
erikbenn Spokane, WA 42, joined Nov. 2010	Walt, according to the bible we have yet to reach the feet of clay and iron, which is the Revived Roman Empire.
5/20/2014 3:56:42 AM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
xashax Union, NH 45, joined May. 2009	It might be fair to say that The Book of Daniel contains both prophetic literature and a historical narrative. The last section, or from chapter seven until its conclusion, deals primarily with Daniel's own visions, or what have been traditionally ascribed to him but most likely were written by several differing authors. These writers were living during the age of the Maccabees which would place it well into the 2nd century BCE. The Maccabees were essentially a Jewish guerrilla style army (if such a thing can be possible) that was assembled and bent on resuming control of Judea. While they are often honored as heroes in the culture of the Ashkenazim and their alleged exploits even commemorated during the Hanukkah festival, in reality they were quite brutal. They were known for slaughtering many of their own peolpe who they suspected of treasonous activities or merely passively accepting the rule of the Seleucid Empire and a form of Hellenized Judaism in which the Greek influence would permeate and gradually seep into what had been considered standardized or more Orthodox religious worship. They sought to put the kibosh on any opportunity for fraternization to occur with the Greeks and their cultural influences. The Maccabees would eventually go on to establish the Hasmonean Dynasty who ruled from 164 BCE to 63 BCE. So not just a great Indie band in other words... Daniel himself would have been readily recognizable to the Jewish people as a sort of religiously glorified action hero figure. A very likely comparison by contemporary standards would have been "James Bond", a fictional character based loosely in the very real existence of the British Secret Service. While we know they are a formidable outfit and are probably responsible for taking out Rasputin, they dont actually possess or enjoy the assistance of ultra high tech gadgetry such as voice activated self-destructing pen knives manufactured for them in top secret laboratories underground as was the case with the Bond character and so forth. We cant help but notice that Daniel uses the dramatic phrasing, "the abomination of desolation" at least three times. According to Jewish interpretation this was an incident that occurred during the reign of Antiochus IV Epiphanes, often referred to as "the wicked" by the Jews. He was the ruler of the Seleucid Empire from 175 BC until his death in 164 BC. He is widely known for his desecration of the Second Temple, or actually Herod's Temple, by having a statue of the famous Greek head honcho god Zeus erected inside the temple itself thus rendering it "unclean" and therefore destroying the sanctity of the location and rendering it no longer usable for the continuation of Jewish religious observance. The four empires which occurred consecutively are the Babylonians, Media, Persia, and the Greeks so I would have to say that Clarence's image makes much more sense, at least from an accurate historical perspective instead of a rather self indulgent imaginary Evangelic conspiracy theory angle. Your image runs counter to the factual data as we understand it to be the case today. For one, Persia, under the rule of King Cyrus, felt to be a Messiah by the Jews, had conquered and absorbed Media in 550 BC before moving on to sack Babylonia in 539 BC. Daniel, or whoever this particular author may have been, was not strong in recalling historical events or it's possible that so much time had elapsed that things were lost and unclear or it was just fictionalized and fun, much like a Bond film and the Jewish readership was well and aware of this fact at this much later period of time.
5/20/2014 4:29:23 AM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
xashax Union, NH 45, joined May. 2009	^^ I also have to agree that the Hebs were not big on artistic endeavors and their craftsmanship considerably lacking in sophistication when compared with the ancient world marvels created by the Egyptians. I think this may be a rendition of the Goddess known as Maat. She was very old, dating back to the pre-dynastic era. It's either her or Isis. I love the wings. I'm not certain on this without looking it up but the Ptolemies were actually Greeks and not Egyptians which is why it is speculated that Cleopatra may have physically looked slightly different. She was Greek and not Egyptian. The Greeks tended to very much admire and enjoy the Egyptian art (who can blame them) and there was some cultural melding and synchronization there.
5/20/2014 4:50:00 AM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
cheridth2 Kermit, TX 40, joined Apr. 2013	This vvvv Your sign, your property – but take it down! Charlie Butts (OneNewsNow.com) Friday, May 16, 2014 More Sharing Services Highway billboards selling commercial products are apparently okay in Texas, but not signs displaying the Ten Commandments. Liberty Institute is fighting for the constitutional rights of Jeanette Golden, a Christian woman in Hemphill, Texas, who has been told by the state she can't put a Ten Commandments sign on her own property adjacent to a highway. The Department of Transportation ordered her to remove the 6- foot x 12-foot sign, then backtracked and said she had to go through numerous hoops to apply for permission. Attorney Mike Berry of Liberty Institute tells OneNewsNow the latest twist is the state has decided no sign is permitted. "And another thing that folks should be clear about on this: this is her private property," he points out. "And so for her to engage in religious expression on her own private property and for the Texas Department of Transportation to come in and tell her that she can't do that, that she's basically banned from doing that, is outrageous." The attorney also notes numerous advertising billboards are erected along the same highway, but the state appears to have no problem with those. Berry "If they're going to come back and say, Well, we don't have an outright ban – well then in that case it looks like they're just banning her sign, which happens to have religious expression, but they're allowing other types of commercial signs; that would also be unconstitutional as viewpoint discrimination," he explains. Liberty Institute has sent a demand letter to the Texas DOT, giving them 60 days to restore Golden's rights before further action is considered.
5/20/2014 10:00:42 AM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
jrbogie1949 Ventura, CA 68, joined Mar. 2009	Quote from erikbenn: Walt, according to the bible we have yet to reach the feet of clay and iron, which is the Revived Roman Empire. so when rome rises again will somebody update the bible? the faithful claim that this prophesy or that prophesy has come true so why hasn't the bible been updated? when was the last update anyway?
5/20/2014 10:09:09 AM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
xashax Union, NH 45, joined May. 2009	I think we (America) are intended to represent the "Revived Roman Empire" to the evangelic way of thinking. Because naturally 2nd century Jewish authors were writing all for them and about them.
5/20/2014 11:14:02 AM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
wayn49 Birmingham, AL 55, joined Feb. 2011	Quote from jrbogie1949: so when rome rises again will somebody update the bible? the faithful claim that this prophesy or that prophesy has come true so why hasn't the bible been updated? when was the last update anyway? revelation 13: 3 - i saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death, and his deadly wound was healed and all the world wondered after the beast. now if you back up and read verses 1 and 2 its giving you the same prophecy that Daniel had concerning the 4 world powers. and it tells you of another little horn that Daniel saw arise within rome. Daniel says that this power would think to change times and laws. and it would wear out the saints of the most high. and it would speak blasphemy. in verse 3 here we see this power Daniel saw as if it was wounded or it no longer has the power it once was. and later it would be healed or becomes a power it uses to be again. and all the world wonders after it. the word wonder here could mean they look to it be cause not everyone will follow this. now tell me who is the most spiritual leader in the world that is looked upon. now saying that do not place a finger on any one individual because its a corrupt system that causes the world to fall away. now you ask yourself, how can this power do that? the answer is found in revelation chapter 17 when it describes who this is. some hold the view that this is applying to who stoned the prophets and crucified Jesus. they place this prophecy on isreal. or it all was done at 70 AD. they say when it tells you of the colors of this woman riding the beast you can find the same colors mentioned in the books of moses. they say it involves isreal mostly in the last days because when you read Daniel chapter 11 verses 40 to 45. but ask again who the king of the north is and the king of the south is. Daniel chapter 11 is nothing but history, present and what is about to unfold in the last days. so who is the king of the north? who is the antichrist? who is the little horn power? why did God label rome as the dreadful beast, with iron teeth and nails of brass? what power came out of rome that was diverse from all the others? what does the woman represent in revelation? what do the colors represent? what does wine mean? what does fornication mean? and if this power arose during the fall of rome between 351 and 476 AD then how can this apply to isreal? many think because it reads in Daniel verse 45 when it reads he will plant his tabernacles in the palace between the seas of the glorious holy mountain it means the antichrist will be a one man that will set up like an office in isreal. one thing is clear the power that does back this up will have one man in the office but we do not know who. but in Daniel 11 at verse 40 we see a war between the north and the south. so some may hold this war centered around the holy land. but actually it reads in revelation all the world will be involved. if it is the power of papal rome will say you may ask then how can a small country have the military to do this. who is looked upon for military support? the good news is this power in verse 45 of chapter 11 in Daniel will come to its end and none can help it. why? because Jesus comes and sets up his kingdom
5/20/2014 11:52:59 AM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
jrbogie1949 Ventura, CA 68, joined Mar. 2009	huh?
5/20/2014 12:14:19 PM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
sail_dancer Saint Petersburg, FL 69, joined Apr. 2010	Quote from jrbogie1949:: huh? Thanks for posting that ..... I thought it was me! Peace
5/20/2014 1:56:59 PM	What, According To The Bible, Lay Ahead In World History?
walt_oftheearth Avondale, AZ 62, joined Feb. 2008	Quote from lickerpoet: I don't think I can make it any clearer. I guess I will just type it slower so it will sink in. Daniel was written after these events took place. It describes events that had already taken place, ergo, Daniel is an historical or quasi-historical account, not a prophetic one. Below is a link to three learned theologians on the subject of Daniel, or you can just read a snippet from each. Norman Cohn, is a Fellow of the British Academy and Professor Emeritus at Sussex University. "We know quite a lot about how the Book of Daniel came to be written. It was written about 164 B.C., probably by several authors." James Tabor, a professor in the Department of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte. "The Book of Daniel is the apocalyptic book of the Hebrew bible. Its sister book would be the Book of Revelation. And in fact the Book of Revelation is largely a Christian interpretation of the Book of Daniel. Daniel [the character] comes to us from the Babylonian exile. Most academic scholars who study it believe that it was actually composed about 150 years before the time of Jesus, much later than the Babylonian exile. L.Michael White, is Professor of Classics and Christian Origins at the University of Texas at Austin, and acted as historical consultant for "Apocalypse!" "Daniel is actually a figure from the Babylonian exile. In fact, he spends his entire life in Babylon. But the Book of Daniel attributed to him is actually written during the Maccabean revolt. Most scholars would say it's written about the year 165 BCE. and it uses the figure of Daniel as a way of reflecting and intensifying the experiences of the Jewish people in the middle of this crisis." There you have it. Most scholars believe it was written about 164, 165 BCE;not 607 BCE; long after many of the prophesied events had already taken place. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/apocalypse/explanation/bdaniel.html Most conservative biblical scholars place the date of the book of Daniel not in the 2nd century BC, but at about 600 BC. So, that definitely is at the time of the Babylonian Empire. So, it is a prophetic book after all. I also note that I have used the designation "BC," before Christ, and you have used the new, politically correct designation "BCE," before common era. Therein is the problem we have in coming to any agreement, Poet. Do you use this new politically correct designation, BCE, because you do not believe in Jesus words, and that He was sent by whom Jesus called "the Father?"

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