Paul, at Romans 4:16-17, calls Abraham the father of us all and the father of many nations. But there are those who insist that Jesus was speaking literally when He said "call no man father". Does this mean God sent Paul to Hell?

Paul, at Romans 4:16-17, calls Abraham the father of us all and the father of many nations. But there are those who insist that Jesus was speaking literally when He said "call no man father". Does this mean God sent Paul to Hell?

What vision are you talking about?

pat?? (from the root, pa; literally, nourisher, protector, upholder; (Curtius, § 348)), pat???, pat??, pat??a, vocative p?te? (for which the nominative ? pat?? is five times used, and (anarthrous) pat?? in John 17:21 T Tr WH, 24 and 25 L T Tr WH; cf. B. § 129, 5; Winers Grammar, § 29, 2; WH's Appendix, p. 158), plural pat??e?, pat????, pat?as? (Hebrews 1:1), pat??a?, ? (from Homer down), the Sept. for ???, a father;
1. properly, equivalent to generator or male ancestor, and either a. the nearest ancestor: Matthew 2:22; Matthew 4:21; Matthew 8:21; Luke 1:17; John 4:53; Acts 7:14; 1 Corinthians 5:1, etc.; ?? pat??e? t?? sa????, fathers of the corporeal nature, natural fathers (opposed to ? pat?? t?? p?e?µ?t??), Hebrews 12:9; plural of both parents, Hebrews 11:23 (not infrequent in secular auth, cf. Delitzsch at the passage); or b. a more remote ancestor, the founder of a race or tribe, progenitor of a people, forefather: so Abraham is called, Matthew 3:9; Luke 1:73; Luke 16:24; John 8:39, 53; Acts 7:2; Romans 4:1 Rec., Romans 4:17f, etc.; Isaac, Romans 9:10; Jacob, John 4:12; David, Mark 11:10; Luke 1:32; plural, fathers i. e. ancestor's, forefathers, Matthew 23:30, 32; Luke 6:23, 26; Luke 11:47; John 4:20; John 6:31; Acts 3:13, 25; 1 Corinthians 10:1, etc., and often in Greek writings from Homer down; so too ?????, 1 Kings 8:21; Psalm 21:5 (), etc.; in the stricter sense of the founders of a race, John 7:22; Romans 9:5; Romans 11:28.

c. equivalent to one advanced in years, a senior: 1 John 2:13f.

2. metaphorically;

a. the originator and transmitter of anything: pat?? pe??t?µ??, Romans 4:12; the author of a family or society of persons animated by the same spirit as himself: so pat?? p??t?? t?? p?ste???t??, Romans 4:11, cf. Romans 4:12, 16 (1 Macc. 2:54); one who has infused his own spirit into others, who actuates and governs their minds, John 8:38, 41f, 44; the phrase ?? pat??? t???? e??a? is used of one who shows himself as like another in spirit and purpose as though he had inherited his nature from him, John 8:44.

b. one who stands in a father's place, and looks after another in paternal way: 1 Corinthians 4:15.

c. a title of honor (cf. Sophocles, Lexicon, under the word), applied to a. teachers, as those to whom pupils trace back the knowledge and training they have received: Matthew 23:9 (of prophets, 2 Kings 2:12; 2 Kings 6:21). ß. the members of the Sanhedrin, whose prerogative it was, by virtue of the wisdom and experience in which they excelled, to take charge of the interests of others: Acts 7:2; Acts 22:1; cf. Gesenius, Thesaurus i., p. 7{a}.

3. God is called the Father, a. t?? f?t?? (A. V. of lights i. e.) of the stars, the heavenly luminaries, because he is their creator, upholder, ruler, James 1:17.

b. of all rational and intelligent beings, whether angels or men, because he is their creator, preserver, guardian and protector: Ephesians 3:14f G L T Tr WH; t?? p?e?µ?t??, of spiritual beings, Hebrews 12:9; and, for the same reason, of all men (pat?? t?? pa?t?? ?????p?? ??????, Josephus, Antiquities 4, 8, 24): so in the Synoptic Gospels, especially Matthew, Matthew 6:4, 8, 15; Matthew 24:36; Luke 6:36; Luke 11:2; Luke 12:30, 32; John 4:21, 23; James 3:9; ? pat?? ? ?? (t???) ???a????, the Father in heaven, Matthew 5:16, 45, 48; Matthew 6:1, 9; Matthew 7:11, 21; Matthew 18:14; Mark 11:25, 26 R G L; Luke 11:13 (?? ???a???; cf. Buttmann, § 151, 2{a}; Winer's Grammar, § 66, 6); ? pat?? ? ???a????, the heavenly Father, Matthew 6:14, 26, 32; Matthew 15:13.

c. of Christians, as those who through Christ have been exalted to a specially close and intimate relationship with God, and who no longer dread him as the stern judge of sinners, but revere him as their reconciled and loving Father. This conception, common in the N. T. Epistles, shines forth with especial brightness in Romans 8:15; Galatians 4:6; in John's use of the term it seems to include the additional idea of one who by the power of his Spirit, operative in the gospel, has begotten them anew to a life of holiness (see ?e????, 2 d.): absolutely, 2 Corinthians 6:18; Ephesians 2:18; 1 John 2:1, 14(),; ; Te?? ?a? pat?? p??t??, of all Christians, Ephesians 4:6; with the addition of a genitive of quality (Winer's Grammar, § 34, 3 b.; § 132, 10), ? pat?? t?? ???t??µ??, 2 Corinthians 1:3; t?? d????, Ephesians 1:17; on the phrases ? Te?? ?a? pat?? ?µ??, Te?? pat??, etc., see Te??, 3, p. 288{a}.

d. the Father of Jesus Christ, as one whom God has united to himself in the closest bond of love and intimacy, made acquainted with his purposes, appointed to explain and carry out among men the plan of salvation, and (as appears from the teaching of John) made to share also in his own divine nature; he is so called, a. by Jesus himself: simply ? pat?? (opposed to ? ????), Matthew 11:25-27; Luke 10:21; John 5:20-23, 26, 36; John 10:15, 30, etc.; ? pat?? µ??, Matthew 11:27; Matthew 25:34; Matthew 26:53; Luke 10:22; John 5:17; John 8:19, 49; John 10:18, 32, and often in John's Gospel; Revelation 2:28 (); ; with ? ?? t??? ???a???? added, Matthew 7:11, 21, 32; Matthew 12:50; Matthew 16:17; Matthew 18:10, 19; ? ????????, Matthew 15:13; ? ?p????????, Matthew 18:35 Rec. ß. by the apostles: Romans 15:6; 2 Corinthians 1:3; 2 Corinthians 11:31; Ephesians 1:3; Ephesians 3:14 Rec.: Colossians 1:3; Hebrews 1:5; 1 Peter 1:3; Revelation 1:6. See (Tholuck (Bergrede Christi) on Matthew 6:9; Weiss, Biblical Theol. d. N. T., Index under Vater; C. Wittichen, Die Idee Gottes als d. Vaters (Göttingen, 1865); Westcott, Epistles of St. John, pp. 27-34, and) below in ???? and t?????.

But Abraham is called "our father in faith" in the NEW Testament, in several places, AFTER Jesus walked the earth.

Some people say Paul's writings shouldn't be included in the Bible, because they cannot even digest the "milk" he dispenses... much less the "meat." These folks aren't "spirit-minded," but are carnal minded, which is the natural mind of man that doesn't have God's Truth revealed to it.

(DOCTRINE OF THE TWELVE APOSTLES)

A short treatise which was accounted by some of the Fathers as next to Holy Scripture. It was rediscovered in 1873 by Bryennios, Greek Orthodox metropolitan of Nicomedia, in the codex from which, in 1875, he had published the full text of the Epistles of St. Clement. The title in the manuscript is Didache kyriou dia ton dodeka apostolon ethesin, but before this it gives the heading Didache ton dodeka apostolon. The old Latin translation of cc. i-v, found by Dr. J. Schlecht in 1900, has the longer title, omitting "twelve", and has a rubric De doctrinâ Apostolorum. For convenience the contents may be divided into three parts: the first is the "Two Ways", the Way of Life and the Way of Death; the second part is a rituale dealing with baptism, fasting, and Holy Communion; the third speaks of the ministry. Doctrinal teaching is presupposed, and none is imparted.

The Didache is mentioned by Eusebius after the books of Scripture (Church History III.25.4): "Let there be placed among the spuria the writing of the Acts of Paul, the so-called Shepherd and the Apocalypse of Peter, and besides these the Epistle known as that of Barnabas, and what are called the Teachings of the Apostles, and also . . . the Apocalypse of John, if this be thought fit . . ." St. Athanasius and Rufinus add the "Teaching" to the sapiential and other deutero-canonical books. (Rufinus gives the curious alternative title "Judicium Petri".) It has a similar place in the lists of Nicephorus, Pseudo-Anastasius, and Pseudo-Athanasius (Synopsis). The Pseudo-Cyprianic "Adversus Aleatores" quotes it by name. Unacknowledged citations are very common, if less certain. The "Two Ways" appears in Barnabas, cc. xviii-xx, sometimes word for word, sometimes added to, dislocated, or abridged, and Barn., iv, 9 is from Didache, xvi, 2-3, or vice versa. Hermas, Irenæus, Clement of Alexandria, and Origen seem to use the work, and so in the West do Optatus and the "Gesta apud Zenophilum". The Didascalia Apostolorum are founded upon the Didache. The Apostolic church ordinance has used a part, the Apostolic Constitutions have embodied the Didascalia. There are echoes in Justin, Tatian, Theophilus, Cyprian, and Lactantius.

Bigd, I know you are not a fan of the Catholic Church, but woyld you agree that if "call no man father" wete taken literally, no one could call teir natural father by that name, or Dad, or Pop, or anything like that? And would you agree that if Paul ,allwd Abraham "our father in faith" that that is further evidence that "call no man father" is not to be taken literally? (Even if only Jews can call Abraham this, which is incorrect, still at least the Jews are allowed to call some men father.) Also, I know you are a.great admirer of the Greek Orthodox, and they call their priests "Father".

So if I called my priest "father in faith" rather than just plain father, that would be okay?

This is what Peter wrote about Paul.

2 Peter 3:15-17Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
15 and the long-suffering of our Lord count ye salvation, according as also our beloved brother Paul -- according to the wisdom given to him -- did write to you,

16 as also in all the epistles, speaking in them concerning these things, among which things are certain hard to be understood, which the untaught and unstable do wrest, as also the other Writings, unto their own destruction.

17 Ye, then, beloved, knowing before, take heed, lest, together with the error of the impious being led away, ye may fall from your own stedfastness,

Lud and Bigd,

I was making a joke about the KJV. It was from some parody song that I had heard many years ago. Don't know who did it and I tried to find it with a google search and came up empty.

As for "calling no man father", you have to look at the context that it is in. In Matthew, Jesus is condemning the Pharisees for their outward appearance which was ok, but inwardly their hearts were corrupt. Some of the Pharisees did recognize Jesus as the Messiah, but many did not. In Romans, though, Paul is addressing the church in Rome that comprised of Jews and Gentiles. He was tying in Abraham's faith to have faith in Christ.

Sadly, only a very, very few of the Jews of Jesus'time believed in Him.