Scientific data concludes "no soon return"

2/8/2016 3:49:42 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	FJO, it is a fact that some---some, not all---of the saints' bodies never decayed. There is a book about that, with photographs---The Incorruptibles, by Joan Cruz. Meet singles at DateHookup.dating, we're 100% free! Join now!
2/8/2016 5:19:25 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
prophetic774 Winter Haven, FL 65, joined Feb. 2011	Quote from louie6332: Prophetic, So, according to you, we have already been through the apocalypse, it ended in 70AD according to you or at least shortly after 96AD. And yet you contradict yourself by saying that Rev chapters 4-22 will take place “in the future just before the second coming of Jesus”. You can’t get your story straight. Is it for the future or not? Do you believe that the Antichrist has already arise, that Christ has already returned, and that he is already ruing in Jerusalem? Are you a SDA? Louie Actually Louis you are confusing me with someone else. I have never believed that Revelation chapters 4-22 took place in the past or before AD 70 like the Preterist. Actually Louie about 80% of the Roman Catholic prophetic theologians are Preterists who believe that all of the book of Revelation ended in AD 70 when the Jewish Temple was completely destroyed. Whereas, I believe that chapters 2 and 3 in Revelation write many things that happened in the past when Revelation was written in AD 96 but Revelation Chapters 4 through 22 will all take place in the future and will begin with the 42-month or 1260 day Great Tribulation just before the Second coming of Jesus on the Last Day and not in 200 years as you falsely claim. The SDA believes that that the 42 month or 1260 day Tribulation was really 1260 years which began in AD 538 and ended 1260 years later in AD 1798 when Napoleon put a Roman Catholic Pope in jail for a few years since they believe the Roman Catholic Church was the antichrist. NOTE: 666 is called the Beast 36 {6X6} times in Revelation. Revelation 13:5-8: The Beast was given authority to exercise his authority for 42 months....He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over EVERY tribe, people, language and nation. All inhabitants of the earth--all whose names have not been written in the Book of Life belonging to the Lamb {Jesus}. Revelation 1:19: Jesus said to John in Revelation 1:19: "Write therefore, what you have seen, what is now {Most of Rev chapters 2 & 3} and what will take place later!" {In Rev chapters 4 to 22} For 42 months until the Last Day at the 2nd coming of Jesus and the coming of the New Heavens and New Earth and the heavenly New Jerusalem on the same Last Day; not 200 years as Louie falsely claims. Louie believes that the Lord has given revelations to him AFTER the book of Revelation was written in AD 96 which absolutely contradicts Revelation 22:18,19. Louie has preached here about some of these ridiculous Revelations which contradicted prophecies in the book of Revelation; given to him; which were supposed to take place in September 2015. And when these Satanic prophecies didn't place in September we didn't hear from Louie for 4 months and now he has returned possibly to give us more of his ridiculous revelations which ADD and *TAKE WORDS AWAY from the book of Revelation which is an unpardonable sin. Revelation 22:16,18,19: "I Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony FOR THE CHURCHES!...I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book. If anyone ADDS {LIKE LOUIE} anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book {Including eternal torment in hell}. And if anyone TAKES WORDS AWAY {LIKE LOUIE} from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the Holy City {The New Jerusalem}, which are described in this book!!" The only inspired additions that give some details about the End times are only found in God's Word which were all written BEFORE** the book of Revelation. For example: Matthew 24,25; Luke 21; Mark 13; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12; I Corinthians 15:35-58; I Thessalonians 4:13-18; 5:1-5.
2/8/2016 5:25:36 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 87, joined May. 2012 online now!	Quote from ludlowlowell: FJO, it is a fact that some---some, not all---of the saints' bodies never decayed. There is a book about that, with photographs---The Incorruptibles, by Joan Cruz. You need to grow up and put away your magical thinking. If you spent as much time obeying Jesus as you spend believing in magic, you'd be way better off.
2/8/2016 5:33:57 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 87, joined May. 2012 online now!	Quote from ludlowlowell: If the Urantia Book teaches that Jesus didn't literally bodily rise from the grave, the Urantia Book is teaching colossal error. The three Marys and the apostles Peter and John saw with their very eyes that Jesus was not in the tomb---they didn't have some spiritual awakening to this. You have a penchant for non sequiturs, things that do not necessarily follow. Just because Jesus' body was not in the tomb doesn't mean that Jesus ascended in bodily form. It just means that Jesus' body was not in the tomb. Why are people afraid to believe that Jesus literally rose from the dead... I don't think you mean "literally" there. If Jesus rose from the dead in spiritual form, he still rose "literally." I am not afraid to believe that Jesus literally rose from the dead. In fact, I DO believe it.
2/8/2016 7:21:37 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	Jesus' Body rose from the dead. According to the historian Josephus Flavius, over 500 people saw Jesus during the forty days between His resurrection and ascension into Heaven.
2/8/2016 9:23:20 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
looptex1 Chatsworth, GA 48, joined Jun. 2008	Quote from deneez: Scripture tells us the 'same' Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead will give life to our mortal bodies as well. Some say this doesn't speak of a 'bodily' resurrection and emphasizes a spiritual resurrection such as what St. Paul speaks of in regards to baptism. However, this completely dismisses that the Spirit will give life to our mortal bodies in the same way He does to Jesus...Bodily. Jesus Christ never needed a spiritual resurrection, point blank, bottom line. It's ignored because it destroys the concept it has already happened...a stretch of theology at best, everything is spiritual, a type of Gnosticism. 1st, to answer you in a earlier post, no I don't deny a bodily resurrection of christ. But what I do is this. I acknowledge the reason for it. John 2:18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, what sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things? 19)Jesus answered and said unto them, destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up. His bodily resurrection wasn't a preview of how we would be resurrected, it was a sign unto them, that they would believe, leaving no doubt Acts 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs..... Now, let's look at how he gives life to our mortal bodies, in context of the scriptures, without opinions. Rom. 8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 AND IF CHRIST BE IN YOU, THE BODY IS DEAD BECAUSE OF SIN; BUT THE SPIRIT IS LIFE BECAUSE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. Nothing there even close to speaking of giving life to our fleshly bodies after the natural death. 2 cor.4:11 For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh. 12 So then death worketh in us, but life in you. 13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak; 14 Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you. 15 For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God. 16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day. and again, not speaking of the natural body receiving life after the natural death Rom. 6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. And what about the words of Jesus? John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die, believe thou this? If it was the natural body that was going to be resurrected, given everlasting life, those born of God shouldn't die at all for Jesus said "even though he liveth he shall never die" Jesus wasn't mistaken when he said "they shall never die" Paul wasn't mistaken when he spoke of the 1st man Adam and the 2nd man adam Paul wasn't mistaken when he spoke of the natural body and the spiritual body Jesus wasn't mistaken when he said flesh and blood cannot enter Jesus wasn't mistaken when he said the flesh profits nothing God wasn't mistaken when he said for dust thou art and unto dust shalt thou return Or here's a daisy Ecclesiastes 3:20 All go to one place, all are of the dust and all turn to dust again "Now listen to the next verse" 21) who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth. I'm Not denying Jesus arose bodily, I don't deny he walked on water either. I just don't believe we will arise bodily just because he did, just like I don't believe we can walk on water because he did. The word teaches otherwise
2/8/2016 9:53:39 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
looptex1 Chatsworth, GA 48, joined Jun. 2008	Just in case any is wondering how our mortal bodies are quickened. 1st Cor 10 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. 7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. 8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. 10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 WHEREFORE LET HIM THAT THINKS HE STANDETH TAKE HEED LEST HE FALL. 13 THERE HATH NO TEMPTATION TAKEN YOU BUT SUCH AS IS COMMON TO MAN: BUT GOD IS FAITHFUL, WHO WILL NOT SUFFER YOU TO BE TEMPTED ABOVE THAT YE ARE ABLE; BUT WILL WITH THE TEMPTATION ALSO MAKE A WAY TO ESCAPE, THAT YE MAY BE ABLE TO BEAR IT. Phil 4 11 Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content. 12 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. 13 I CAN DO ALL THINGS THROUGH CHRIST WHICH STRENGTHENETH ME. col 3 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. 2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. 5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: 6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: 7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. 8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. 9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; 10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: 11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. 12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; 13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. 14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness. 15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. 16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. 17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
2/8/2016 10:26:34 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 87, joined May. 2012 online now!	Quote from ludlowlowell: Jesus' Body rose from the dead. According to the historian Josephus Flavius, over 500 people saw Jesus during the forty days between His resurrection and ascension into Heaven. Another non sequitur, -it does not follow. It does not follow that because Jesus appeared to 500 people, that he rose in bodily form. They could just as easily have seen Jesus in a new glorified transition form if that's the way Jesus wanted it. The angel Gabriel is a spirit being. Nevertheless, apparently he appeared to Mary. If Gabriel can been seen when he wants to be seen, so too can Jesus. In fact, I was just reading Luke 1:28 and it sounds like Gabriel had sex with the virgin Mary: Luk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, Gabriel "came in unto her." Imagine that. That would make Gabriel Jesus' Father. Yes, The Urantia Book says that Jesus appeared to many people as well. But not in his human body. And that's why He said to Mary: Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. (John 20:17) John 20:27 is made up. It's false. 191:5.4 When the Master had so spoken, he looked down into the face of Thomas and said: "And you, Thomas, who said you would not believe unless you could see me and put your finger in the nail marks of my hands, have now beheld me and heard my words; and though you see no nail marks on my hands, since I am raised in the form that you also shall have when you depart from this world, what will you say to your brethren? You will acknowledge the truth, for already in your heart you had begun to believe even when you so stoutly asserted your unbelief. Your doubts, Thomas, always most stubbornly assert themselves just as they are about to crumble. Thomas, I bid you be not faithless but believing -- and I know you will believe, even with a whole heart." -The Urantia Book
2/8/2016 11:35:45 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	We know that Jesus was not just in spirit form after He rose, because the scripture says He ate fish, and because Thomas felt His hands and His side.
2/9/2016 12:01:43 AM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 87, joined May. 2012 online now!	Quote from ludlowlowell: We know that Jesus was not just in spirit form after He rose, because the scripture says He ate fish, and because Thomas felt His hands and His side. John 20:27 is made up. It's false. 191:5.4 When the Master had so spoken, he looked down into the face of Thomas and said: "And you, Thomas, who said you would not believe unless you could see me and put your finger in the nail marks of my hands, have now beheld me and heard my words; and though you see no nail marks on my hands, since I am raised in the form that you also shall have when you depart from this world, what will you say to your brethren? You will acknowledge the truth, for already in your heart you had begun to believe even when you so stoutly asserted your unbelief. Your doubts, Thomas, always most stubbornly assert themselves just as they are about to crumble. Thomas, I bid you be not faithless but believing -- and I know you will believe, even with a whole heart." -The Urantia Book And no, Jesus did not eat any fish. Someone just remembered wrong in the bible or wished it had happened that way. It's a phenomenon called false memory syndrome. 192:1.8 Jesus spoke to them, saying: “Come now, all of you, to breakfast. Even the twins should sit down while I visit with you; John Mark will dress the fish.” John Mark brought seven good-sized fish, which the Master put on the fire, and when they were cooked, the lad served them to the ten. Then Jesus broke the bread and handed it to John, who in turn served it to the hungry apostles. When they had all been served, Jesus bade John Mark sit down while he himself served the fish and the bread to the lad. And as they ate, Jesus visited with them and recounted their many experiences in Galilee and by this very lake. -The Urantia Book. Jesus did not need any material sustenance at that point.
2/9/2016 1:21:42 AM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	Well, here's our problem, FJO. I believe in the Bible, so I believe Jesus rose bodily from the dead, you believe in the Urantia Book, so you don't. So we are talking past each other on this one.
2/9/2016 1:40:29 AM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 87, joined May. 2012 online now!	Quote from ludlowlowell: Well, here's our problem, FJO. I believe in the Bible, so I believe Jesus rose bodily from the dead, you believe in the Urantia Book, so you don't. So we are talking past each other on this one. YOU do not believe in the bible. You don't even believe in Jesus or love Him enough to obey Him. You give Jesus the finger every time you call a priest, "Father." "Call no man your father upon the earth: "for one is your Father, which is in heaven." (Matthew 23:9) "If a man love me, he will keep my words."(John 14:23) "He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings." (John 14:24) And the word which you have heard, is not mine; but the Father's who sent me." (John 14:24) [Edited 2/9/2016 1:40:41 AM ]
2/9/2016 2:06:13 AM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	H...Y...P... You called your own father Dad. O...C...R... Are you allowing your children to call you that? I...T...E...
2/9/2016 5:36:30 AM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
deneez Rochester, MI 56, joined Apr. 2012	1st, to answer you in a earlier post, no I don't deny a bodily resurrection of christ. I would hope not. "If the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised. If Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished" (1 Cor. 15:13–18). Being 'raised' obviously refers to the body. Christ did not need a spiritual 'raising'. This is our hope, this is the Faith. Sometimes you read things you've read before and notice something new, the Gospel is forever new. Note, in the passage from Corinthians above it does not say If Christ has not been raised then the dead are not raised. It states if the DEAD are not raised, then Christ has not been raised....never noticed before the emphasis first placed within the passage on our belief in the raising of the dead, as if this belief is dependent on believing Christ has been raised. Glad to hear it.
2/9/2016 11:31:12 AM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
louie6332 Falkville, AL 73, joined Nov. 2011	Prophetic, I see you are a “once saved always saved” guy. According to you no Christian ever falls from grace and dies and is lost. And you are “a saved by faith alone”, faith defined as simple belief, guy, a Christ has done everything Guy and Christians do not have to do anything but accept it as a free gift guy. Once you have done that you have it made and you can be as wicked as you like, nothing you do will make you lose the “gift” of salvation. Easy believism is YOUR imagined path to Heaven. But eternal life was NOT promised to the reprobate, it is a reward for the Just, it was promised to the Elect. EVERYONE who obtains Heaven has been granted eternal life. And yet you insist that eternal life is NOT a reward, and that Heaven itself is NOT a reward. Does everyone in Heaven enjoy the same happiness? No. But the obtaining of eternal life and of Heaven is a reward in and of itself, there is peace in Heaven and no one in Heaven suffers pain or need or sorrow. Heaven is not a place of punishment. If the attainment of Heaven is NOT a reward, then what is it, a punishment? All this just goes right over your head, doesn’t it prophetic? Don’t you remember Our Lord telling the story of the man who died and appeared before his throne for Judgment, saying Lord, I performed miracles in your name etc. and Our Lord saying to him: Away from me you evildoer into the flames prepared for the devil, I never knew you?. Did Christ’s words just go right over your head? Not everyone who says “Lord, Lord”--you, know pretend Christians who do not practice the faith--will be saved. Pretend Christians, lukewarm Christians who do not practice the faith will NOT be saved. Both God the Father and God the Son have said of Christians: “Would that ye were either hot or cold, the lukewarm I will spew out of my mouth”. Lukewarm Christians do not PRACTICE the faith as they should. Prophetic, shouldn't the Gospel according to Prophetic include a warning for lukewarm Christians? Virtually every book of the Bible says that men “will be judged according to their works”. But going by the Gospel according to Prophetic, works have nothing at all to do with salvation. According to you, the wicked are punished by not being not being rewarded in Heaven, by being denied happiness in Heaven. In other words, denial of reward in Heaven is the punishment afforded to the wicked when they get to Heaven. I think you are confusing Heaven with Hell. Your Gospel, the Gospel according to Prophetic, contradicts God the Father who said through Ezekiel that the good go to Heaven and the wicked go to Hell and it is the state of your soul at death that seals your fate forever. That is the fundamental criteria for salvation, and it applies to everyone, INCLUDING Christians. You pretend that Christ came to destroy what his father revealed, that Christ can judge by a different criteria, that he has handed Christians a free pass to Heaven, that Christians do not have to worry about being good, and that once saved always saved, a doctrine that contradicts the words of Christ. If you are not a SDA, Prophetic, what are you? Tell us. If you have revealed it before, refresh our memory. Don’t be shy, tell us. Louie
2/9/2016 1:11:38 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 87, joined May. 2012 online now!	Quote from ludlowlowell: H...Y...P... You called your own father Dad. O...C...R... Are you allowing your children to call you that? I...T...E... Look how clever I am, Jesus. I know you didn't say "Call no man your Dad," but I refuse to obey you regarding calling priests, "Father" because someone else on earth called their biological parent "Dad" or allowed their children to call them "Dad." So that's why I refuse to obey you, Jesus and that's why I call priests, "Father" even though they are not my father and even though YOU said, "for one is your Father, which is in Heaven." And besides, Jesus, I must follow the orders of my Fuhrer Father, the "Holy Father" in Rome. What are you going to do about it, Jesus? You can't do anything about it, Jesus. The Holy Father in Rome will protect me. I love him so much. The Holy Father in Rome is infallible and he takes your place here on earth and whatever He decrees here on earth You WILL abide by up there in heaven or else.
2/9/2016 1:15:47 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 87, joined May. 2012 online now!	Quote from louie6332: Prophetic, I see you are a “once saved always saved” guy. According to you no Christian ever falls from grace and dies and is lost. And you are “a saved by faith alone”, faith defined as simple belief, guy, a Christ has done everything Guy and Christians do not have to do anything but accept it as a free gift guy. Once you have done that you have it made and you can be as wicked as you like, nothing you do will make you lose the “gift” of salvation. Easy believism is YOUR imagined path to Heaven. But eternal life was NOT promised to the reprobate, it is a reward for the Just, it was promised to the Elect. EVERYONE who obtains Heaven has been granted eternal life. And yet you insist that eternal life is NOT a reward, and that Heaven itself is NOT a reward. Does everyone in Heaven enjoy the same happiness? No. But the obtaining of eternal life and of Heaven is a reward in and of itself, there is peace in Heaven and no one in Heaven suffers pain or need or sorrow. Heaven is not a place of punishment. If the attainment of Heaven is NOT a reward, then what is it, a punishment? All this just goes right over your head, doesn’t it prophetic? Don’t you remember Our Lord telling the story of the man who died and appeared before his throne for Judgment, saying Lord, I performed miracles in your name etc. and Our Lord saying to him: Away from me you evildoer into the flames prepared for the devil, I never knew you?. Did Christ’s words just go right over your head? Not everyone who says “Lord, Lord”--you, know pretend Christians who do not practice the faith--will be saved. Pretend Christians, lukewarm Christians who do not practice the faith will NOT be saved. Both God the Father and God the Son have said of Christians: “Would that ye were either hot or cold, the lukewarm I will spew out of my mouth”. Lukewarm Christians do not PRACTICE the faith as they should. Prophetic, shouldn't the Gospel according to Prophetic include a warning for lukewarm Christians? Virtually every book of the Bible says that men “will be judged according to their works”. But going by the Gospel according to Prophetic, works have nothing at all to do with salvation. According to you, the wicked are punished by not being not being rewarded in Heaven, by being denied happiness in Heaven. In other words, denial of reward in Heaven is the punishment afforded to the wicked when they get to Heaven. I think you are confusing Heaven with Hell. Your Gospel, the Gospel according to Prophetic, contradicts God the Father who said through Ezekiel that the good go to Heaven and the wicked go to Hell and it is the state of your soul at death that seals your fate forever. That is the fundamental criteria for salvation, and it applies to everyone, INCLUDING Christians. You pretend that Christ came to destroy what his father revealed, that Christ can judge by a different criteria, that he has handed Christians a free pass to Heaven, that Christians do not have to worry about being good, and that once saved always saved, a doctrine that contradicts the words of Christ. If you are not a SDA, Prophetic, what are you? Tell us. If you have revealed it before, refresh our memory. Don’t be shy, tell us. Louie Good point, Louie. There is and there always have been, a certain class of poster here on the DH religion forums including this one perhaps, prophetic, who try to keep their religious affiliations secret. I think they think, and maybe rightly so, that they can then attack the beliefs of others while not making themselves a target. Some of them will go to great lengths to hide their affiliations. Often, when once they are found out, they disappear because they have lost whatever advantage they had.
2/9/2016 2:21:49 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
prophetic774 Winter Haven, FL 65, joined Feb. 2011	LOUIE: Actually unlike the Satanic Roman Catholic church I believe in the words of Jesus in John 17:17; Jesus prayed to His Father, "Sanctify them by the TRUTH YOUR WORD IS TRUTH!" Ephesians 1:3-8: Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For HE CHOSE US in Him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in His sight. In love HE PREDESTINED US to be adopted as His sons through Jesus Christ,in accordance with His pleasure and will--to the praise of his glorious grace, which He has freely given us in the One He loves. In Him we have REDEMPTIOIN THROUGH HIS BLOOD, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace that He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding! John 3:3: Jesus declares, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the Kingdom of God unless his is BORN AGAIN!"John 1:12,13: He gave the right to become children of God--children born not of human descent, NOR OF A HUMAN DECISION, or a husband's will, but BORN OF GOD!! John 6:28,29: Then they asked Jesus, "What must we do to do the works God requires?" Jesus answered, "The WORK OF GOD is this: to believe in the One He has sent!" John 6:37,39,44,65: Jesus says, "All that the Father gives to Me WILL come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will NEVER drive away...And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose NONE of all He has given Me, but raise them up at the Last Day....No one can come to Me UNLESS the Father who sent Me draws him and I will raise him up at the Last Day!...No one can come to Me UNLESS the Father has enabled them!" John 17:1,2: Jesus prayed, "Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. For you granted Him authority over all people that He might give eternal life to all those YOU HAVE GIVEN HIM!" John 17:9,24: Jesus prayed, "I pray for them, I am not praying for the world, but for THOSE YOU HAVE GIVEN ME!"...."Father, I want THOSE YOU HAVE GIVEN ME** to be with Me where I am!!" Isaiah 53:5,6: But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all!! AND SO SALVATION IS 100% FREE BUT HEAVENLY REWARDS ARE 100% EARNED!!: Ephesians 2:8,9: For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the GIFT of God—not by works. So that no one can boast. For we are GOD'S WORKMANSHIP, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do! Hebrews 11:1,6: Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see....And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to Him must believe that He exists and that He REWARDS those who earnestly seek Him!! Ephesians 6:8: Serve wholeheartedly , as if you were serving the Lord, not men, because you know that the Lord will REWARD everyone for what ever good he does!. Revelation 22:12 Jesus says, “Behold I am coming soon! My REWARD is with Me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done!” Matthew 16:27: Jesus says, “The Son of Man is going to come in His Father's glory with His angels and THEN He will REWARD each person according to what he has done!” 2 Corinthians 5:9,10: We make it our goal to please Him... for we must all appear before the Judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad. 1 Corinthians 3:13-15: His work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives , he will receive his *REWARD. If it is burned up he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
2/9/2016 9:38:51 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
prophetic774 Winter Haven, FL 65, joined Feb. 2011	John 14:26: Jesus says, "The counselor, the holy spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you!" John 16:12-15: Jesus says, "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.. But when he, the spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth He will NOT SPEAK ON HIS OWN, he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will bring glory to Me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. All that belongs to the Father is Mine. That is why I said the spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you. {The holy spirit inspired people to write all the inspired words of God in the New Covenant!!} 2 Peter 1:20,21: Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along BY THE HOLY SPIRIT! Ephesians 6:17: Take the helmet of salvation and the SWORD OF THE SPIRIT which is the WORD OF GOD!!
2/10/2016 2:06:34 AM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
erikbenn Spokane, WA 41, joined Nov. 2010	Quote from louie6332: Errikbenn, you say: “God can do whatever he wants.” Errik, such statements as this quickly lead to logical paradoxes. For example: Can God do everything? Yes. Well, can God make a rock that is so heavy he cannot lift it? Yes. Well, then that is something he cannot do, he cannot lift it. Oh, I’m sorry, I misspoke, he CAN lift it. Well, then that is something he cannot do, he cannot make such a rock. When you over generalize something with the words “all” and “everything” for example, you get into logical troubles. So be careful about that. It is not correct to say that God can do everything. God CANNOT do everything. What God CAN do, at most, is everything that is POSSIBLE to do. Not even God can do the impossible. While we are on this subject I should point out that the spiritual world and the physical world are both part of the Universe, and they both have laws (I have discovered something interesting about the nature of the two, but I won’t get into it here). There are spiritual laws. For example, the committing of an evil in the spiritual world demands justice (ultimately, there must be justice, a price paid for wrongs committed). And God is a God of Justice, and he must obey, not only the laws of the physical world, but also the laws of the spiritual world. If an evil is committed, a price must be paid for that. Curiously, an innocent party can volunteer to pay the price for a guilty party, and that is what Jesus did. He paid down the price to the point so that man, who could not pay the full price, could pay the rest. He opened the gates of Heaven to men of Good Will who wished to reunite themselves with God by paying down the price to the point where they could pay the remainder. Christ did not do everything as Martin Luther and his followers would have us believe, Christians must do something for their own salvation, men are not saved by faith, defined as simple belief, but by the PRACTICE of faith, they must PRACTICE their faith to be saved by it, and it is revealed that four things are required for one’s efforts at salvation to be complete: 1) one must obey God’s commandments, 2) pray, 3) do penance for sin, and 4) do good works, that is what it means to practice the Christian faith. There are some in this forum who argue that Justice itself is evil. And that a Just God is evil for administering Justice. But God has no choice; he must obey the spiritual law of justice. And the laws of the spiritual world ultimately demand Justice. Arguing with the laws of the spiritual world makes as much sense as arguing against the laws of the physical world. When you are falling off a cliff, you can rant and rave against the laws of physics all you want to, but you will still fall. Louie God does not abide by what humans call the laws of physics, gravity or any other scientific law there is. He defies them. God raises people from the dead. If I fall off a cliff, as in your example, I would be dead. But, God, if it is His will can raise me from the dead and heal me of all my injuries.
2/10/2016 11:48:27 AM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
louie6332 Falkville, AL 73, joined Nov. 2011	Erikbenn, did everything I said just go right over your head? Despite everything I just said, you still believe that miracles are violations oft he laws of physics. But God does not HAVE to break the laws of physics to raise the dead. God is not lawless, as you would have us all believe. The laws of physics are general, if a “law” of physics can be broken, it is not a law. What you are saying, unwittingly, is that there ARE no laws of physics. God save us from philosophers. Erik, God has his secrets, he has not revealed everything about himself (he has aces up his sleeve, so to speak). People are free to speculate, and the shepherds of the Church can try to fill in the blanks with these speculations, but that is not their mission. Louie
2/10/2016 3:54:04 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
prophetic774 Winter Haven, FL 65, joined Feb. 2011	Quote from Equalizer21: I believe the 7 spirits of God before the throne, are God's spirit. They aren't man's spirit, or someone else's spirit. The fact that it also works under authority of God/Jesus. Makes it a part of the Godhead. Revelation 1:4: Grace and peace to you from Him who is, and who was, and who was to come, and from the seven spirits BEFORE HIS THRONE!! It is very interesting to note that there will only be TWO thrones for Jesus and His Father in the eternal heavenly New Jerusalem: Revelation 22:3: THE THRONE OF GOD AND OF THE LAMBwill be in the City!!! {The New Jerusalem} Why doesn't the holy spirit or the seven spirits have a THRONE??? Why will there only be TWO THRONES in the eternal heavenly New Jerusalem??? Revelation 3:21,22: Jesus says, "To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with Me on MY THRONE, just as I overcame and sat down with the Father on HIS THRONE! He who has an ear, let him hear what the SPIRIT says to the churches!!!" The SPIRIT mentioned here must be the 7 angels or the 7 spirits of God who stand before God the Father's THRONE!!!!! So these inspired verses in God's Word show that that Jesus and his Father are God but the holy spirit or seven spirits of God or seven angels who carry out the commands of Jesus and His Father are not God!! If the 7 spirits of God or holy spirit are one third of a Divine Trinity; then they would be equal to Jesus and His Father and would therefore have their own throne and would be worshiped as Jesus and the Father. And yet there is also not one verse in God's Word showing someone worshipping the holy spirit or the seven spirits who stand BEFORE THE FATHER'S THRONE!! Revelation 22:8,9: I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard or seen them, I fell down to WORSHIP at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. But he said to me, "Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers the prophets and of all who keep the words of this Book. Worship God"!!
2/11/2016 6:15:13 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
isna_la_wica Brantford, ON 61, joined Mar. 2012	Quote from deneez: Hey, how have you been? If to be away from the body is to be present to the Lord, seems to me soul sleep is not a doctrine one could wrap their head around. Jesus, being fully God, fully human, died a physical death at which time He said, "Father, into your hands I commend my Spirit"..there is no evidence this spirit slept or was annihilated..what sleeps in the dust is the body until it be rejoined to the spirit in the general resurrection, that is my understanding through the deposit of faith. Scripture tells us the 'same' Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead will give life to our mortal bodies as well. Some say this doesn't speak of a 'bodily' resurrection and emphasizes a spiritual resurrection such as what St. Paul speaks of in regards to baptism. However, this completely dismisses that the Spirit will give life to our mortal bodies in the same way He does to Jesus...Bodily. Jesus Christ never needed a spiritual resurrection, point blank, bottom line. It's ignored because it destroys the concept it has already happened...a stretch of theology at best, everything is spiritual, a type of Gnosticism. rambling on, if one really contemplates it, He's here right now. Gives a new meaning to what you did to the least of these you did to Me. closest to the wounded, those considered most inferior, the poor in spirit, the broken hearted, the most unloved. HE hangs with these guys. Thanks, I am hung up on something right now, still trying to sort my thoughts out.
2/11/2016 6:40:16 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
prophetic774 Winter Haven, FL 65, joined Feb. 2011	All 7 spirits which stand before God's Throne may be David {Renamed Gabriel} Enoch {renamed Michael the Arch messenger} Noah, Abraham, Joseph, Isaiah and Daniel. Moses and Elijah are the two witnesses who also stand before God's throne. Just before the amazing vision of the End-Tines in Daniel 9:24-27 Daniel said in Daniel 9:21-23: "While I was still in prayer, Gabriel {Which means MAN of God} the MAN I had seen in the earlier vision, came to me in swift flight about the time of the evening sacrifice. He instructed me and said to me, 'Daniel, I have come to give you insight and understanding. As soon as you began to pray, an answer was given, which I have come to tell you, for you are highly esteemed. Therefore, consider the message and understand the vision!!'" Note: Jesus is called the Son of David 17 times in the NT and the Root and Offspring of David in Rev 22:16. God also called David a MAN after my own heart. The Greek word for angel or witness is "angelos " and can be translated angel or messenger. John the Baptist is called an "angelos" and it was rightly translated "messenger" in Luke 7:27,28; instead of angel. The MAN Gabriel is wrongly called an angel in Luke 1:19 & 26 and should have been called a "messenger" since he is a MAN and not an angel according to Daniel 9:21 and Daniel 8:16. Luke 6:26-33: In the sixth month, God sent the messenger {Not angel} Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of DAVID. The messenger {Not angel} went to her and said, "Greetings, you are highly favored The Lord is with you. Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. But the messenger {Not angel} said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God. You will be with Child and give birth to a Son, and you are to give Him the name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give Him the throne of his father DAVID, and He will rule over the house of Jacob forever; His kingdom will never end!!" Gabriel or David will also probably be the 7th MESSENGER {Not angel} who will sound the 7th and Last Trump just before the 2nd Coming of Jesus as per Rev
2/12/2016 1:32:52 AM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
erikbenn Spokane, WA 41, joined Nov. 2010	Quote from louie6332: Erikbenn, did everything I said just go right over your head? Despite everything I just said, you still believe that miracles are violations oft he laws of physics. But God does not HAVE to break the laws of physics to raise the dead. God is not lawless, as you would have us all believe. The laws of physics are general, if a “law” of physics can be broken, it is not a law. What you are saying, unwittingly, is that there ARE no laws of physics. God save us from philosophers. Erik, God has his secrets, he has not revealed everything about himself (he has aces up his sleeve, so to speak). People are free to speculate, and the shepherds of the Church can try to fill in the blanks with these speculations, but that is not their mission. Louie Louie, let me remind you that the "Laws of Physics" is a man made term. God is not subject to man, or man's terms, or any scientific theory, rule, or law. He can do anything He wants. He CREATED the universe.
2/12/2016 6:48:14 AM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
cupocheer Assumption, IL 67, joined May. 2010	Jesus will return soon. Only God knows when.
2/12/2016 8:07:21 AM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
looptex1 Chatsworth, GA 48, joined Jun. 2008	Quote from cupocheer: Jesus will return soon. Only God knows when. probably as soon as a few of the disciples show up.
2/13/2016 9:40:26 AM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
erikbenn Spokane, WA 41, joined Nov. 2010	We disciples of Christ are already here, loop.
2/13/2016 11:24:43 AM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
louie6332 Falkville, AL 73, joined Nov. 2011	Erikbenn, you say: “Louie, let me remind you that the "Laws of Physics" is a man made term. God is not subject to man, or man's terms, or any scientific theory, rule, or law. He can do anything He wants. He CREATED the universe.” Erikbenn, the fact that man has a phrase for the laws of physics does not say or imply that man created the laws of physics. And the fact that men have a word for the laws of physics does not mean that the laws of physics are subject to men. Men can use the laws of physics to their advantage, if they know them, but the laws of physics are not subject to men. Men cannot create the laws of physics, they discover them—I’m surprised you don’t know that. Men are discovering the laws of physics, not making them. Man did not “make” the laws of physics. And no, God is not subject to man, nobody says he is, nor does the Universe obey man, it obeys the laws of physics. We have a word for Erikbenn, but that does not mean we made Erikbenn. And no, God cannot do everything. I thought we already settled that. He can do, at most, anything that is possible to do. He cannot do the impossible. Are you arguing with that? And as far as him creating the Universe, you know nothing about it. Erikbenn, can God make a rock that is so heavy he cannot lift it? When you answer that question, get back to me. Don't worry, I won't hold my breath. Louie
2/13/2016 12:53:19 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 87, joined May. 2012 online now!	* This is an excellent post, Louie. Quote from louie6332: Erikbenn, you say: “Louie, let me remind you that the "Laws of Physics" is a man made term. God is not subject to man, or man's terms, or any scientific theory, rule, or law. He can do anything He wants. He CREATED the universe.” Erikbenn, the fact that man has a phrase for the laws of physics does not say or imply that man created the laws of physics. And the fact that men have a word for the laws of physics does not mean that the laws of physics are subject to men. Men can use the laws of physics to their advantage, if they know them, but the laws of physics are not subject to men. Men cannot create the laws of physics, they discover them—I’m surprised you don’t know that. Men are discovering the laws of physics, not making them. Man did not “make” the laws of physics. And no, God is not subject to man, nobody says he is, nor does the Universe obey man, it obeys the laws of physics. We have a word for Erikbenn, but that does not mean we made Erikbenn. And no, God cannot do everything. I thought we already settled that. He can do, at most, anything that is possible to do. He cannot do the impossible. Are you arguing with that? And as far as him creating the Universe, you know nothing about it. Erikbenn, can God make a rock that is so heavy he cannot lift it? When you answer that question, get back to me. Don't worry, I won't hold my breath. Louie
2/13/2016 6:27:51 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
blake6972 Bunker Hill, WV 43, joined Jul. 2013	Quote from louie6332: Erikbenn, you say: “Louie, let me remind you that the "Laws of Physics" is a man made term. God is not subject to man, or man's terms, or any scientific theory, rule, or law. He can do anything He wants. He CREATED the universe.” Erikbenn, the fact that man has a phrase for the laws of physics does not say or imply that man created the laws of physics. And the fact that men have a word for the laws of physics does not mean that the laws of physics are subject to men. Men can use the laws of physics to their advantage, if they know them, but the laws of physics are not subject to men. Men cannot create the laws of physics, they discover them—I’m surprised you don’t know that. Men are discovering the laws of physics, not making them. Man did not “make” the laws of physics. And no, God is not subject to man, nobody says he is, nor does the Universe obey man, it obeys the laws of physics. We have a word for Erikbenn, but that does not mean we made Erikbenn. And no, God cannot do everything. I thought we already settled that. He can do, at most, anything that is possible to do. He cannot do the impossible. Are you arguing with that? And as far as him creating the Universe, you know nothing about it. Erikbenn, can God make a rock that is so heavy he cannot lift it? When you answer that question, get back to me. Don't worry, I won't hold my breath. Louie To ask , can God make a rock that is so heavy that He cannot lift is pure foolishness. The ONLY thing God cannot do is SIN. FYI, science has NO bearing on the return of Christ. NONE. Rapture first. Second Coming next. BIG difference.
2/13/2016 6:44:15 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
erikbenn Spokane, WA 41, joined Nov. 2010	Quote from louie6332: Erikbenn, you say: “Louie, let me remind you that the "Laws of Physics" is a man made term. God is not subject to man, or man's terms, or any scientific theory, rule, or law. He can do anything He wants. He CREATED the universe.” Erikbenn, the fact that man has a phrase for the laws of physics does not say or imply that man created the laws of physics. And the fact that men have a word for the laws of physics does not mean that the laws of physics are subject to men. Men can use the laws of physics to their advantage, if they know them, but the laws of physics are not subject to men. Men cannot create the laws of physics, they discover them—I’m surprised you don’t know that. Men are discovering the laws of physics, not making them. Man did not “make” the laws of physics. And no, God is not subject to man, nobody says he is, nor does the Universe obey man, it obeys the laws of physics. We have a word for Erikbenn, but that does not mean we made Erikbenn. And no, God cannot do everything. I thought we already settled that. He can do, at most, anything that is possible to do. He cannot do the impossible. Are you arguing with that? And as far as him creating the Universe, you know nothing about it. Erikbenn, can God make a rock that is so heavy he cannot lift it? When you answer that question, get back to me. Don't worry, I won't hold my breath. Louie My answer is that there is nothing that God cannot do, except sin. The Universe was created by God, and it obeys God not the laws of physics. Do you really think that the orbit and placement of the Earth around the sun is just a coincidence? It's amazes me that people claim to love God, but then claim He can't do the impossible. How then can you believe Jesus rose from the dead? Last time I checked that's impossible.
2/13/2016 10:15:59 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 87, joined May. 2012 online now!	* There's no point in talking with erikbenn, Louie. He's unteachable.
2/13/2016 11:15:22 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	At least Erik is not a racist. At least Erik believes in only one God.
2/13/2016 11:37:18 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 87, joined May. 2012 online now!	Quote from ludlowlowell: At least Erik is not a racist. At least Erik believes in only one God. But you don't even love God. Jesus: "Why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46) "If a man love me, he will keep my words."(John 14:23) "He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings." (John 14:24) And the word which you have heard, is not mine; but the Father's who sent me." (John 14:24)
2/13/2016 11:45:42 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 87, joined May. 2012 online now!	Quote from blake6972: To ask , can God make a rock that is so heavy that He cannot lift is pure foolishness. The ONLY thing God cannot do is SIN. FYI, science has NO bearing on the return of Christ. NONE. Rapture first. Second Coming next. BIG difference. God cannot make square circles. God cannot make Ludlow or the Catholic church obey Him.
2/14/2016 1:39:27 AM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
erikbenn Spokane, WA 41, joined Nov. 2010	Thank you, Lud, I really appreciate that. God Bless You!
2/14/2016 1:29:14 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
louie6332 Falkville, AL 73, joined Nov. 2011	Blake, you say: “To ask , 'Can God make a rock that is so heavy that He cannot lift it' is pure foolishness.” Blake answer the question. You won’t, because you would then have to admit that God cannot do everything. The philosophical assertion that God can do everything it a premise of your faith, and faith, in you opinion trumps logic, right reason. But if right reason conflicts with a premise of faith, that is a huge red flag that something is wrong with your premise of faith. And Blake, you say: “science has NO bearing on the return of Christ.” Blake, are you suggesting that true science, true history, and right reason contradict true religion, that truth contradicts truth? Erikbenn, you say: “The Universe was created by God, and it obeys God, NOT THE LAWS OF PHYSICS. Do you really think that the orbit and placement of the Earth around the sun is just a coincidence?” No, the placement of the Earth around the sun is not a coincidence, in fact, there is evidence that the orbits of the planets are quantized, similarly to the orbits of electrons around the nucleus of the atom being quantized, they too, cannot orbit at any distance from the nucleus,they orbit in certain stable orbits —I have discovered some extremely interesting things about quantization, but I won’t get into it here. Concerning the planets, there is an interesting observation called Bode’s law, in which it is observed that planets around the sun each orbit about twice the distance of the planet closer to the sun from it. Scientists do not know why this observation, called Bode’s law, holds true. But I have understood why, but won’t get into it here. If you disturb a planet by pulling it out into an orbit further from the sun, it will gradually, over a period of thousands of years, return to its previous orbit by spiraling back to its previous orbit, its stable orbit, and we actually have observational evidence of that. God is not there personally pushing it back, the laws of physics dictate its motion back to its stable orbit. The point I am trying to make here is that the motion of the planets around the sun, contrary to what you would have us all believe, OBEY PHYSICAL LAWS and are not random. In days of ole, philosophers, who knew nothing of the laws of physics, would often attribute everything to God--God was there personally making it happen, no laws of physics needed. I see from your posts that we have not evolved beyond that point yet. Does God intervene? Yes. But he uses the laws of physics in his interventions, he does not violate the laws of physics. God is not lawless. Erikbenn, you say: “It's amazes me that people claim to love God, but then claim He can't do the impossible.” Erikbenn, let me try this again. If it CAN be done, then it is NOT “impossible”.” Impossible”, fundamentally and by definition, means that it CAN'T be done. Erikbenn, you say: “How then can you believe Jesus rose from the dead? Last time I checked that's impossible.” Well, Erikbenn, although it is rare and improbable, it is NOT impossible, for it HAS been done. If it HAS been done, then it is, by definition, NOT impossible. We don't know how to do it yet, but God does. God save us from philosophers, from shepherds who depend on philosophers for their doctrine, and from those who blindly follow them. Louie [Edited 2/14/2016 1:32:14 PM ]
2/14/2016 10:10:57 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
looptex1 Chatsworth, GA 48, joined Jun. 2008	Quote from erikbenn: We disciples of Christ are already here, loop. test we are eric, yet we are not part of those he was speaking to when he said, "There be some of you standing here that shall not taste of death until they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom with power and glory" Those he spoke those words to must be alive, rather must not have died, until his coming get has been accomplished.
2/14/2016 10:45:56 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
prophetic774 Winter Haven, FL 65, joined Feb. 2011	Quote from louie6332: Prophetic, the prohibition against adding or subtracting that you site expressly applies to the Book of Revelation. How many times does that have to be pointed out to you? The prophecies given by Mary at Fatima in Portugal were given in 1917 and are separate from the Book of Revelation. Does Jesus, the King of Heaven, have to have permission from you to send Mary to give his messages? Prophetic: You imply that the Bible is the sole authority in matters of faith, but nowhere does the Bible say that, in fact, the Bible explicitly contradicts that. Louie I John 2:3-5: We know we have come to know Him {Jesus} IF WE OBEY HIS COMMANDS. The man who says, "I know Him," but does not do what He commands is a liar and the truth is not in him. But IF anyone obeys His Word, God's love is truly made complete in him. THE GREAT COMMISSION: Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, “All authority in heaven and on EARTH has been given to Me. Therefore go and make disciples of ALL NATIONS...teaching them to OBEY EVERYTHING* I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very END OF THE AGE!” 2 Timothy 3:16; 4:2: All Scripture is God breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God my be thoroughly equipped for every good work...PREACH THE WORD; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction. Acts 17:11: Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and EXAMINED the SCRIPTURES EVERY DAY!! James 1:22: Do not merely listen to the Word, and so deceive yourselves. *DO WHAT IT SAYS...But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, BUT DOING IT--he will be blessed in what he does!! READ GOD'S WORD DAILY AND THEN DO WHAT IT SAYS!! Psalm 119 has 176 verses praising the Word of God. The Old Testament had 613 laws and the New Covenant of Jesus and His love has about 400 commands of LOVE which Psalm 119 also applies to. Some of my favorite verses is Psalm 119 are: 119:105: Your Word is a Lamp to my feet and a Light for my path. 119:97: Oh how I love your law, I meditate on it all day long. 119:148: My eyes stay open through the watches of the night, that I meditate on your promises. 119:164: Seven times a day I praise you for your righteous laws. 119:169: Give me understanding according to your Word. 119:2: Blessed are those who keep His statues and seek Him with all your heart. 119:11: I have hidden your Word in my heart that I might not sin against You. Deuteronomy 4:2: God says, "Do not ADD to what I command you and do not SUBTRACT from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you!!" Deut 18:17-19: The Lord says, "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. If anyone does not listen to My words that the Prophet speaks in My Name, I Myself will call Him to account." John 14:23,24: Jesus says, "If anyone LOVES Me, He will obey My teaching. My Father will LOVE Him, and we will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me will not obey My teaching." Revelation 22:16,18,19: "I, Jesus. have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the Churches.... I warn everyone who hears the words of this prophecy of this Book: If anyone ADDS anything to them {Like Louie}, God will add to him the plagues described in this Book {Including ETERNAL HELL} And if anyone TAKES WORDS AWAY from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the Tree of Life and in the Holy City {The New Jerusalem}, which are described in this book." I Peter 1:23-25: You have been born again.. through the Living and Enduring Word of God. All men are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field, the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the WORD OF THE LORD STANDS FOREVER. And this is the Word that was preached to you. John 8:32,33; Jesus says, "If you hold to My teaching, you are really My disciples Then you will *KNOW THE TRUTH and the Truth will set you free!!" John 17:17: Jesus prayed to His Father, " Sanctify them by THE TRUTH, YOUR WORD IS TRUTH!"
2/15/2016 12:23:45 AM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
erikbenn Spokane, WA 41, joined Nov. 2010	John did see Jesus' return when Jesus gave John the vision of Revelations.
2/15/2016 2:39:12 AM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
erikbenn Spokane, WA 41, joined Nov. 2010	Quote from louie6332: Blake, you say: “To ask , 'Can God make a rock that is so heavy that He cannot lift it' is pure foolishness.” Blake answer the question. You won’t, because you would then have to admit that God cannot do everything. The philosophical assertion that God can do everything it a premise of your faith, and faith, in you opinion trumps logic, right reason. But if right reason conflicts with a premise of faith, that is a huge red flag that something is wrong with your premise of faith. And Blake, you say: “science has NO bearing on the return of Christ.” Blake, are you suggesting that true science, true history, and right reason contradict true religion, that truth contradicts truth? Erikbenn, you say: “The Universe was created by God, and it obeys God, NOT THE LAWS OF PHYSICS. Do you really think that the orbit and placement of the Earth around the sun is just a coincidence?” No, the placement of the Earth around the sun is not a coincidence, in fact, there is evidence that the orbits of the planets are quantized, similarly to the orbits of electrons around the nucleus of the atom being quantized, they too, cannot orbit at any distance from the nucleus,they orbit in certain stable orbits —I have discovered some extremely interesting things about quantization, but I won’t get into it here. Concerning the planets, there is an interesting observation called Bode’s law, in which it is observed that planets around the sun each orbit about twice the distance of the planet closer to the sun from it. Scientists do not know why this observation, called Bode’s law, holds true. But I have understood why, but won’t get into it here. If you disturb a planet by pulling it out into an orbit further from the sun, it will gradually, over a period of thousands of years, return to its previous orbit by spiraling back to its previous orbit, its stable orbit, and we actually have observational evidence of that. God is not there personally pushing it back, the laws of physics dictate its motion back to its stable orbit. The point I am trying to make here is that the motion of the planets around the sun, contrary to what you would have us all believe, OBEY PHYSICAL LAWS and are not random. In days of ole, philosophers, who knew nothing of the laws of physics, would often attribute everything to God--God was there personally making it happen, no laws of physics needed. I see from your posts that we have not evolved beyond that point yet. Does God intervene? Yes. But he uses the laws of physics in his interventions, he does not violate the laws of physics. God is not lawless. Erikbenn, you say: “It's amazes me that people claim to love God, but then claim He can't do the impossible.” Erikbenn, let me try this again. If it CAN be done, then it is NOT “impossible”.” Impossible”, fundamentally and by definition, means that it CAN'T be done. Erikbenn, you say: “How then can you believe Jesus rose from the dead? Last time I checked that's impossible.” Well, Erikbenn, although it is rare and improbable, it is NOT impossible, for it HAS been done. If it HAS been done, then it is, by definition, NOT impossible. We don't know how to do it yet, but God does. God save us from philosophers, from shepherds who depend on philosophers for their doctrine, and from those who blindly follow them. Louie How do you know what God uses to do miracles? You use the example of a rock so heavy that God can't lift it, but Jesus said that if your faith was a small as a grain of mustard seed you'd be able to move mountains. Matthew 17:20King James Version (KJV) 20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
2/15/2016 10:38:17 AM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
louie6332 Falkville, AL 73, joined Nov. 2011	Stop beating around the bush Erik and answer the question, “Can God make a rock so heave that he cannot life it?” You won’t, because you can’t. Either way you answer it implies that there is something God cannot do. God can, at most, do everything that is possible to do. Nobody can do the Impossible, if they could, it would not be “impossible”. I cannot do the impossible either. If a man of faith can move mountains, then it is not impossible to move mountains. You are using the wrong terminology, you are confusing the term “improbable” with the term “impossible”. Prophetic, I am still waiting for you to explain how “THIS book of prophecy” means “ALL books of prophecy” and how it means “God is henceforth forbidden from giving any more prophecies”. You won’t because it would mean having to admit you are wrong in your interpretations. When you have to alter the meaning of words to defend an interpretation, it is a huge red flag that something is wrong with your interpretation. Stop acting the clown. And Prophetic, what denomination are your? Looptex, you quote Christ: “"There be some of you standing here that shall not taste of death until they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom with power and glory" and then say: “Those he spoke those words to must be alive, rather must not have died, until his coming get has been accomplished.” No, this has been explained before, Jesus and his apostles failed to understand that the meaning of the prophecy they were using was hidden. It was 50 Jubilee Years, or 2000 years, instead of 50 years. The fifty Jubilee years, by the way, is now approaching its end, the younger generation today will live to see his Return, provided they survive the Great Chastisement of God and its Third World War and series of disasters and the Great Tribulation and its Fourth World War and series of disasters. I know you will never admit that OP, it would mean having to admit that your thesis in this thread is wrong. Your pride will not let you do that. Louie
2/15/2016 10:55:16 AM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	Louie, I think the Catholic catechism answer to this one is that God indeed can do anything, except those things that are opposed to His divine nature. God can't lie, God can't sin, and God could not create a material object so heavy that He Himself would have trouble lifting or moving it.
2/15/2016 11:31:18 AM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
mindya Jerusalem Israel 63, joined Jan. 2009	Quote from Comet Louie: Jesus and his apostles failed to understand that the meaning of the prophecy they were using was hidden. ......
2/15/2016 11:59:55 AM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
cupocheer Assumption, IL 67, joined May. 2010	Did you know that if you just rest your finger on the screen of a smart phone the emotes stop moving and laughing?
2/15/2016 12:20:35 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
louie6332 Falkville, AL 73, joined Nov. 2011	Lud, you say: "and God could not create a material object so heavy that He Himself would have trouble lifting or moving it." Then, by your own admission Lud, that is something he cannot do. Louie
2/15/2016 1:38:59 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 87, joined May. 2012 online now!	Quote from ludlowlowell: Louie, I think the Catholic catechism answer to this one is that God indeed can do anything, except those things that are opposed to His divine nature. God can't lie, God can't sin, and God could not create a material object so heavy that He Himself would have trouble lifting or moving it. God cannot make you obey Him. "Call no man your father upon the earth: "for one is your Father, which is in heaven." (Matthew 23:9) Jesus: "Why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46) "If a man love me, he will keep my words."(John 14:23) "He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings." (John 14:24) And the word which you have heard, is not mine; but the Father's who sent me." (John 14:24) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (1 John 2:4)
2/15/2016 3:37:28 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	Louie, yes. That was my point---there are some things God cannot do. God cannot do anything that is opposed to His own divine nature, such as make a rock too heavy for Him to lift. God can't lie or sin, either.
2/15/2016 4:59:43 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 87, joined May. 2012 online now!	Quote from ludlowlowell: Louie, yes. That was my point---there are some things God cannot do. God cannot do anything that is opposed to His own divine nature, such as make a rock too heavy for Him to lift. God can't lie or sin, either. God cannot make you obey Him either. "Call no man your father upon the earth: "for one is your Father, which is in heaven." (Matthew 23:9) Jesus: "Why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46) "If a man love me, he will keep my words."(John 14:23) "He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings." (John 14:24) And the word which you have heard, is not mine; but the Father's who sent me." (John 14:24) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (1 John 2:4)
2/15/2016 5:49:46 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
prophetic774 Winter Haven, FL 65, joined Feb. 2011	Quote from followjesusonly: God cannot make you obey Him Ephesians 1:3-8: Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For HE CHOSE US in Him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in His sight. In love HE PREDESTINED US to be adopted as His sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with His pleasure and will--to the praise of his glorious grace, which He has freely given us in the One He loves. In Him we have REDEMPTIOIN THROUGH HIS BLOOD, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace that He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding! John 3:3: Jesus declares, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the Kingdom of God unless his is BORN AGAIN!"John 1:12,13: He gave the right to become children of God--children born not of human descent, NOR OF A HUMAN DECISION, or a husband's will, but BORN OF GOD!! John 6:28,29: Then they asked Jesus, "What must we do to do the works God requires?" Jesus answered, "The WORK OF GOD is this: to believe in the One He has sent!" John 6:37,39,44,65: Jesus says, "All that the Father gives to Me WILL come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will NEVER drive away...And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose NONE of all He has given Me, but raise them up at the Last Day....No one can come to Me UNLESS the Father who sent Me draws him and I will raise him up at the Last Day!...No one can come to Me UNLESS the Father has enabled them!" John 17:1,2: Jesus prayed, "Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. For you granted Him authority over all people that He might give eternal life to all those YOU HAVE GIVEN HIM!" John 17:9,24: Jesus prayed, "I pray for them, I am not praying for the world, but for THOSE YOU HAVE GIVEN ME!"...."Father, I want THOSE YOU HAVE GIVEN ME to be with Me where I am!!" Romans 9:10-18: Rebekah's children had one and the same father, our father Isaac. Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad--in order that God's purpose on election might stand: not by works but by Him who calls--she was told, "The older will serve the younger." Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved but Esau I hated."{Mal 1:2,3} What shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For He says to Moses [In Exodus 33:19} "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire and effort, but on God's mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharoah {In Exodus 9:16} "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." Therefore, God has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy, and He hardens whom He wants to harden! And therefore followjesusonly God can make you obey Him!!!
2/15/2016 6:45:52 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
louie6332 Falkville, AL 73, joined Nov. 2011	Blake, you say: “Can God make a rock that is so heavy that He cannot lift it is pure foolishness.” No Blake, you may not like the question because it pertains to God and the fact that it shows that God can, at most, do everything that is possible to do, that he cannot do the impossible, you may not like that, because it contradicts your mindset, but it is a legitimate question. It’s a logical paradox. There are many others. To illustrate, here is one you might like better (because it has nothing to do with God): “In a certain library, there is a reference book that lists all reference books that do not list themselves. Question: “Does this reference book list itself?” Louie
2/16/2016 1:42:12 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
prophetic774 Winter Haven, FL 65, joined Feb. 2011	Quote from louie6332: I see Prophetic, now we can add "the Rapture" to your list of personal doctrines, despite the fact that all the divine revelations in the Bible and elsewhere foretell the Church suffering through the persecution of the Great Tribulation, and goes so far as to foretell: "The cup of the blood of the martyrs will be filled to overflowing at the time". But what do the prophets know? Paul knows better? And you know better? And we can also add eternal life for the Reprobate to your list of personal doctrines. You quote Revelation 20::13,14: “The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and DEATH and HADES gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done Then death and Hades were thrown into the LAKE OF FIRE. The LAKE OF FIRE is the SECOND DEATH. If anyone's name was not found written in the Book of Life, he will be thrown into the LAKE OF FIRE!” The "first death" is the death of the physical body, the "second death" is the death of the human spirit, the human soul. God reveals that the souls of the reprobate will, in the end, die in the Lake of Fire. But what does God know? You know better? You are asking us to believe that reprobate souls continue to live eternally after dying in the Lake of Fire? Get real! Louie Actually Louie I believe in a 1260-day Great Tribulation and I don't believe in a pre-trib rapture before the 1260 day or 42 month tribulation begins. I believe that the resurrection of the saved and then the resurrection of the lost will both occur on the same Last Day of the 1260-day Great Tribulation.{Which is Post-Trib} Note: 666 is called the beast 36 times in the book of Revelation: Revelation 13:5 The beast will exercise his authority for 42 months...he will be given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he will be given authority over EVERY tribe, people, language and nation. All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast--all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb {Jesus}... This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints! Now Louie, TNT and the SDA believe that Revelation 20:13,14 and Revelation 21:8 absolutely proves their ridiculous Annihilation fairy tale. Revelation 20::13,14: The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and DEATH and HADES gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done Then death and Hades were thrown into the LAKE OF FIRE. The LAKE OF FIRE is the SECOND DEATH. If anyone's name was not found written in the Book of Life, he will be thrown into the LAKE OF FIRE! Revelation 21:8: But the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts and the idolaters--their place will be in the FIERY LAKE OF BURNING SULFUR. This is the SECOND DEATH! So here we learn that all unbelievers who suffered the FIRST DEATH in HADES will also suffer the SECOND DEATH in the FIERY LAKE OF BURNING SULFUR which is called the SECOND DEATH! Now TNT claims that when the lost are thrown in the FIERY LAKE OF BURNING SULFUR this proves that they will be immediately burned up and ANNIHILATED and will not suffer any further punishment???? However Revelation 19:20 and Revelation 20:10 shows that 666, his False Prophet and the Devil will be thrown ALIVE into the FIERY LAKE OF BURNING SULFUR and will be TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOR EVER AND EVER and Revelation 14:9-11 shows that all of their followers will also suffer the exact same fate!!! Revelation 19:20; 20:10: But, the beast will be captured, and with him the False Prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf {See Rev 13:11-18}. With these signs he will delude those who receive the mark of the Beast and worship his image. The two of them were will be thrown ALIVE into the FIERY LAKE OF BURNING SULFUR!!...And the Devil, who deceived them, will be thrown into the LAKE OF BURNING SULFUR, where the Beast and the False Prophet had been thrown. They will be TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOR EVER AND EVER!! Revelation 14:9-11: A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: "If anyone worships the Beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury , which has been thrown full strength into the cup of His wrath. He will be TORMENTED WITH BURNING SULFUR in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their TORMENT rises FOR EVER AND EVER. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the Beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name!!" SEVEN times in the NT Jesus stated that there would be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH in FIERY FURNACE!!! In Matthew 8:12; 13:42,50; 22:13; 24:31; 25:30 an Luke13: 28!! Matthew 13:40-43: Jesus says, "So it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the FIERY FURNACE, where there will be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH**!! Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who as ears ,let him hear!!" And so Louie's, TNT's, SDA's and Urantia's ridiculous annihilation fairy tale is completely disproved in the INSPIRED WORDS OF GOD!!!!!
2/16/2016 4:05:57 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
louie6332 Falkville, AL 73, joined Nov. 2011	Pathetic, I mean Prophetic, geese you are hard headed. Listen carefully, the "first death" is the death of the Body, and no one suffers the first death in Hades anymore than they suffer the first death in Heaven, in fact Hell is a spiritual world located at the center of the Earth, and since it is located in sold matter, no physical body can go there, only spirits can go there. So no physical body CAN go there to die, its impossible. And the "second death" is the death of the human spirit, the death of the human soul. At the Last Judgment, the reprobate souls are called forth from Hell and publicly judged and then thrown into the Lake of Fire where they suffer the Second Death, the death of the soul. Now if their souls suffered death in Hell, how could their souls die again in the Lake of Fire? If you are dead, you are dead. You no longer exist as a living being. And if you are dead, if you not longer exist as a living being, you can no longer feel pleasure or pain. Be a man, admit that you are wrong. And apologize to those you are arrogantly bad mouthing. What you are doing is calling Revelation 20:13,14 “a fairy tale”, to use your words, because you do not WANT to accept what it literally says. Aren’t you violating the prohibition of taking from the Book of Revelation when you allegorically reinterpret its literal meaning out of existence? Isn’t the meaning part of the Book of Revelation? When the human spirit leaves the physical body, the physical body dies, but the human spirit does not die, it continues to live outside the body. When the spiritual body, the human spirit dies, it ceases to exist as a living being. If you think this is “ridiculous”, to use your words, then you must think that God is “ridiculous” to say: “Fear not man who can kill the body, but God who can kill both body and soul.” But Hey, Prophetic, all is not lost, if you can allegorically reinterpret Rev 20:13,14 out of existence, you can just as easily reinterpret this statement of God out of existence. But be warned, one lie invariably leads to another. In order to maintain consistency when you change one thing, you end up having to change countless other things, one right after the other, in order to maintain consistency in the story. “Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.” Louie
2/16/2016 4:16:20 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 87, joined May. 2012 online now!	* Read The Urantia Book, Louie. I think you're ready. Get this one with this cover: Right now, at this very minute, Amazon.com has it for $17.22. "The Urantia Book: Indexed Version With Free MP3 Audio Book on DVD (Can only be played on a computer with a DVD...Jun 15, 2012" [By the way, the MP3 audio files can also be played on any ipod or mp3 player once the files are offloaded from the DVD.]
2/16/2016 4:17:41 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 87, joined May. 2012 online now!	Quote from prophetic774: And so Louie's, TNT's, SDA's and Urantia's ridiculous annihilation fairy tale is completely disproved in the INSPIRED WORDS OF GOD!!!!! "The wages of sin is death." Rom 6:23 Case closed. It took you 729 words to make your case. It took me 6 words. [Edited 2/16/2016 4:19:10 PM ]
2/16/2016 5:21:01 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	The wages of sin is indeed death. The word "death" here means the spiritual death of living in Hell forever, a living death as it were.
2/16/2016 5:30:18 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 87, joined May. 2012 online now!	Quote from ludlowlowell: The wages of sin is indeed death. The word "death" here means the spiritual death of living in Hell forever, a living death as it were. Apparently you have no idea what the word "death" means. It just means whatever you want it to mean. "Living in Hell" is obviously not "death."
2/16/2016 5:43:29 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 87, joined May. 2012 online now!	Quote from followjesusonly: "The wages of sin is death." Rom 6:23 Case closed. It took you 729 words to make your case. It took me 6 words. "The argumentative defense of any proposition is inversely proportional to the truth contained." -The Urantia Book
2/16/2016 5:47:42 PM	Scientific data concludes "no soon return"
louie6332 Falkville, AL 73, joined Nov. 2011	Blake, let me follow up on your assertion “The question, ‘Can God make a rock that is so heavy that He cannot lift it?’ is pure foolishness.” No Blake, what is foolish is the doctrine that God can do everything. The paradox proves this doctrine to be over generalized and false. Blake, it is painful to learn that one of your long held doctrines of faith, which is really nothing but a speculative opinion, cannot be true, and I feel your pain. Your psychological frame of reference has been fractured, and you are blindly striking out in defense of your frame of reference. That’s human nature perhaps, but it’s not rational. A number of points, first, the “Universe” includes everything, including God--he is in the Universe. And the spiritual and physical worlds are both part of the Universe. (I have discovered something important about the nature of both worlds and the relationship between, but I won’t get into it here). Both worlds obey the laws of physics. God is not there personally directing the motion of every single particle in the Universe, large and small, as some would have us believe, the laws of physics determine those motions. Logical paradoxes are part of logic and are legitimate tools for discovering truth. If a religious doctrine leads to logical paradoxes, that is absolute proof that there is something wrong with the doctrine, that the doctrine is not internally consistent, that there is something self contradictory about it. And rejecting paradoxes just ignores or skims over the problem. Don’t go down that road. The truth is that whenever two statements (or doctrines) contradict each other, at least one of them is necessarily false--that’s a principal tenant of right reason. You can either ignore the contradiction, or you can seek to discover which one is the false statement (assuming one is true). And whenever a statement (or doctrine) contradicts itself, IT is necessarily false. You can either ignore the self contradiction, as you are doing, or you can discard the false statement. (In this particular case, you can remove the self contradiction by rephrasing the over generalized doctrine). And if contradictions are found in a body of doctrine, that is proof that there is at least one doctrine there that is internally inconsistent with the body of doctrine. Does that mean that you have to throw out the whole body of doctrine? Not necessarily. In many cases that would be throwing the baby out with the wash water, so to speak. The second point is that rejecting the legitimacy of logical paradoxes, is, wittingly or unwittingly, rejecting right reason (logical paradoxes are part of logic and logic is at the very heart of Right Reason). You are saying that a body of doctrine does not have to be consistent with true science, true history, or right reason. Are you suggesting that truth can contradict truth? Let truth be your guide, do not love your beliefs more than you love truth. God has revealed that he created man in his own image, “POSSESSED OF RIGHT REASON”. Do you imagine that God would have given us an ability that was of no use, that he did not want us to use right reason? To the contrary, right reason can be used to steer us to the Truth and away from error. He gave us the ability to reason rightly, and he expects us to use it. Are you claiming that it is a sin to reason rightly, that reasoning has been outlawed by God? Look Blake, you can’t just assert that right reason has nothing to do with true religion when logic shakes your ship of faith, and then proceed as if nothing ever happened. That is not acting in good faith. God, himself, does not think that right reason is irrelevant, for example, when a mentally disabled individual commits a transgression, God, when judging the individual, takes his mental impairment into account as a mitigating factor. If a man is not in his right mind and unable to reason rightly when he commits a transgression, God takes that into account. Is a man fully responsible for his actions when he is unable to think rightly? Anomalies and paradoxes and such, which many physicists ignore because they are not able to explain them, are important in Physics too, they lead to progress in theoretical physics. And although some religious shepherds would have you ignore them, they also serve as a test of true religion. Louie

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scientific data concludes "no soon return"

Scientific data concludes "no soon return"