Select your best hookup:
Local
Gay
Asian
Latin
East Europe

mega personales

What could be less horny than a raging pandemic in which you are legally obliged to remain much more than two metres away from everyone? And people today are coughing and spluttering and can not taste something? It s not even been horny in a repressed and yearning lesbian in the Victorian times way. payson az singles Everybody is now kinky for lengthy distance sex, unless they reside with their companion sex even though social distancing is nonetheless doable. If we believe about this as a skill, distance puts it to the test. rubmaps augusta ga Right after reading his profile on match.

trans hookup site

She had attempted a lot of apps like Match. barstow dating These are light conversation starters that may well assist to bring up a funny story though also revealing a bit about who they are and their upbringing, says Kederian. You can send and obtain winks, perform men and women searches, view users profiles, view and post photographs just for cost free. rubrating salt There s even a assure that you ll be dating somebody within six months, and if you are not, they ll give you six months free of charge of charge! Yet, it s estimated that more than 50 million individuals use an app such as Tinder, with US millennials averaging around 1.

Home  Sign In  Search  Date Ideas  Join  Forums  Singles Groups  - 100% FREE Online Dating, Join Now!


2/4/2016 9:28:46 AM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (20,869)
Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


I've thought of that, and my personal opinion is that martyrs, soldiers who fought in just wars, policemen, firemen, etc. retain wounds in Heaven as badges of honor. Maybe not totally disfiguring wounds or severed limbs. We know from scripture that Christ retained His wounds after His resurrection.

Meet singles at DateHookup.dating, we're 100% free! Join now!

DateHookup.dating - 100% Free Personals


2/4/2016 10:55:54 AM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

looptex1
Over 2,000 Posts (3,689)
Chatsworth, GA
48, joined Jun. 2008


Quote from visitingfriends:
Just a thought, does that mean that we will retain our wounds and scars? Scripture says we will be like Him. This is an honest question.

I don't believe so.
I don't believe Jesus has his either.
Just a few things to Ponder on.
When he arose and was seen, he states himself he hasn't ascended to the father.
So at that point and time, he had not been accepted of the father, and we know through OT scripture the offering has to be without spot and without blemish.
People was to run to acts and claim he went to the father in a fleshly body, all the while ignoring "the clouds received him out of their site"
They didn't see, beyond what the natural limitations of the eye could see.
People ignore the fact, that Mary, his own mother, didn't recognize him until he said her name.
The men that were traveling, they didn't recognize him either.
That should in the very least cause us to ask, did they not see the scars?
Why didn't they ask what had happen to him?
Then people over look some other reasons he may have appeared unto Mary as a gardener, the men as a mere man and then the twelve as himself.
He had to prove it was him to the twelve.
You say not so?
Search the scriptures and you will find that the miracles he done, we're so that they would believe.
He didn't do these things because he felt sorry for the one he was healing, or just to have something to do to pass time.
I think it is acts, that said he done many I fallible proofs. Meaning things that left no doubt, could not be denied.
No matter if you will have it or not, they were still following by sight and not by faith.
In one place Jesus has just done a miracle or taught them something, I can't remember.
But when he finished he said he do everything or said those things that when he is gone that they might remember and believe because he had told them before is come to pass.
Many in here love to quote "in like manner" yet they don't know what "in like manner" is.
So they attach their own doctrine and beliefs to the subject.
Well, why not let the scripture tell you what "in like manner is"?
It plainly tells you.
"As they stood there gazing, a cloud received them out of their site" there is it.
Exactly how Jesus said he would come "in the clouds"
There's no need to insert your belief here, just believe what the bible teaches.
Then go and see what coming in the clouds refers to.

2/4/2016 11:40:18 AM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

wayn49
Over 2,000 Posts (3,755)
Birmingham, AL
54, joined Feb. 2011


Quote from visitingfriends:
Just a thought, does that mean that we will retain our wounds and scars? Scripture says we will be like Him. This is an honest question.



i believe we will be like him without sin and perfect like we are a 25 year old person, young looking and no sickness and no pain and no sorrow.

does the bible say Jesus will bear those scars on his hands and feet forever? those scars are a reminder of his grace and mercy. of course in heaven and the new earth we no longer need to be reminded or do we?

or will Jesus bear those scars forever because he loved us?

2/4/2016 1:52:20 PM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

looptex1
Over 2,000 Posts (3,689)
Chatsworth, GA
48, joined Jun. 2008


Quote from wayn49:
i believe we will be like him without sin and perfect like we are a 25 year old person, young looking and no sickness and no pain and no sorrow.

does the bible say Jesus will bear those scars on his hands and feet forever? those scars are a reminder of his grace and mercy. of course in heaven and the new earth we no longer need to be reminded or do we?

or will Jesus bear those scars forever because he loved us?
the bible doesn't say nor teach he has scars now.
It teaches he had scars when he appeared unto the disciples, before he ascended unto the father.
Any teaching of him having scars now is man's teaching and not the bibles.

2/4/2016 2:05:07 PM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

looptex1
Over 2,000 Posts (3,689)
Chatsworth, GA
48, joined Jun. 2008


And by the way bigd, you challenged me?
Where? When? What about?
Oh, one else them cowardly challenges? The kind tossed from behind the protection of the block button!!!
If it were not for myself and a few others, you and equalizer wouldn't even have a thread, that's how smart you are.
99 of 100 threads you start are nothing more than spin offs of another thread.
you have no ideas of your own.
Take them girly panties off and put your big boy panties on and come join in.
It's your choice, put up or remain a coward.

2/4/2016 2:09:14 PM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  
mindya
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,086)
Jerusalem
Israel
63, joined Jan. 2009


Quote from looptex1:
Take them girly panties off and put your big boy panties on and come join in.
It's your choice, put up or remain a coward.




He sure acts like a girly, just like his dear mama...bigDugly...

2/4/2016 2:19:51 PM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

looptex1
Over 2,000 Posts (3,689)
Chatsworth, GA
48, joined Jun. 2008


Quote from mindya:


He sure acts like a girly, just like his dear mama...bigDugly...
if I knew how to make those animations, I'd have a chicken clucking, b, b, b, bigd!!!!!

2/4/2016 3:02:14 PM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (20,869)
Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


Can't we cool the personal insults? I don't like Bigd either---in fact I have him blocked---but sheesh!

2/4/2016 3:16:56 PM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

looptex1
Over 2,000 Posts (3,689)
Chatsworth, GA
48, joined Jun. 2008


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Can't we cool the personal insults? I don't like Bigd either---in fact I have him blocked---but sheesh!
where's the insult lud?
If this were bigd thread, he would tell you to go somewhere else, this was his thread.
and then he would block you.
But it's not his thread, it's mine,
So where is the insult?

2/4/2016 3:48:55 PM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  
mindya
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,086)
Jerusalem
Israel
63, joined Jan. 2009


Quote from ludlowlowell:
but sheesh!


Hey, don't you be coming in here "sheeshing" at people......

2/4/2016 4:14:03 PM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (20,869)
Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


"Take your girly panties off" and ckucking like a chicken while saying "b,b,bigd" are personal insults and are not Christian things to say. Refute Bigd's arguments in their merits, something easy to do because he is almost always wrong.

2/4/2016 4:28:48 PM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  
mindya
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,086)
Jerusalem
Israel
63, joined Jan. 2009


Quote from ludlowlowell:
"Take your girly panties off" and ckucking like a chicken while saying "b,b,bigd" are personal insults and are not Christian things to say. Refute Bigd's arguments in their merits, something easy to do because he is almost always wrong.


Listen Lud - your continuous rants about "protestants" on here are an insult. Take yer boots to a catholic forum.



[Edited 2/4/2016 4:29:37 PM ]

2/4/2016 4:33:40 PM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

looptex1
Over 2,000 Posts (3,689)
Chatsworth, GA
48, joined Jun. 2008


I suppose it's time we explain this math to bigd.
He seems to be very confused.
But that's no surprise.

The whole math equation is about the number John saw, and the message being preached today.
People are preaching Jesus is coming soon.
Even though I don't believe he is returning, but that he has already fulfilled that promise.
I gave the evidence of a false message being preached.
IF, IF, IF Jesus were returning, it would be after John's vision of this innumerable amount of people had washed their robes in the blood of the lamb.

This is where the scientific data comes in.
According to the data, or formula, it has took approximately 7000 years for approximately 125 billion humans to be born.
No, not all are still alive so don't get confused.

Just estimating, if it took 7000 to have 125 billion born, we could assume it would take 7000 more years for another 125 billion to be born.
Placing the total of possible people in john's vision at 250 billion.
If this is the year 2016 and I'm pretty sure it is.
If we add the 7000 years to that, the time needed for the other 125 billion to be born, we would then be in the year 9016.
And still, a number that no man can number has not been reached.
We can continue to add 125 billion to the number, and each time we add the 125B, add 7000 years and the number would only reach 825B, by the year 44016..
No all these numbers are just approximate, and or guesses.
Not to be used at absolutes but as guidelines, or parameters.
And according to these numbers, IF, IF, IF Jesus were going to return someday in the future, it would not be "any time soon" as most would have you to believe.

Of course we could take equalizers view of it and think it is a stupid argument that the scripture didn't mean that no man could number this great multitude.
We could also say that when God told abraham he would multiply his seed as the stars of heaven and as the sands of the sea shore, that he meant as only the stars in one of the constellations and only a handful of sand.
Yep, equalizer really like to rightly divide the word, he divides is so thin that God's words mean nothing.

2/5/2016 12:54:14 AM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,930)
Kingman, AZ
87, joined May. 2012
online now!


Quote from wayn49:
i believe we will be like him without sin and perfect like we are a 25 year old person, young looking and no sickness and no pain and no sorrow.

does the bible say Jesus will bear those scars on his hands and feet forever? those scars are a reminder of his grace and mercy. of course in heaven and the new earth we no longer need to be reminded or do we?

or will Jesus bear those scars forever because he loved us?


One thing I am sure of is that we are not going to arrive on the "mansions" as perfect beings. Is God going to transform every Christian, Jew, Muslim, or Urantian believer in Him who is a jerk here, into a perfect being there? I don't think so. Perfection must be earned. The road to perfection and to Paradise (which is not the mansions) is a long one, and a long one in which we have time to become perfect, but we will not be made perfect in any magical way. That's the lot of angels but it's not ours. We are animal origin mortals. It's going to require an eternity of effort.

                                                                                     

2/5/2016 1:05:32 AM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,930)
Kingman, AZ
87, joined May. 2012
online now!


Quote from ludlowlowell:
"Take your girly panties off" and ckucking like a chicken while saying "b,b,bigd" are personal insults and are not Christian things to say. Refute Bigd's arguments in their merits, something easy to do because he is almost always wrong.


Bigd throws out plenty of insults on his own. Don't worry about it. He can take care of himself. And you're almost always wrong yourself.

And no, bigd is not almost always wrong. Bigd is right about a lot of things. Here's one:

"The Catholic church is corrupt."

Bigd is right about that.

And worse, the Catholic church is an abomination as it doesn't obey God and it encourages others, like Satan encouraged Eve, to disobey and defy God. The Catholic church surely mimics Satan's activities in that regard.

(Proverbs 11:20) They that are of a froward heart are abomination to the LORD.

Main Entry: froward
: DISOBEDIENT : WILLFUL

"Call no man your father upon the earth: "for one is your Father, which is in heaven." (Matthew 23:9)

Jesus: "Why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46)

"If a man love me, he will keep my words."(John 14:23)
"He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings." (John 14:24)

And the word which you have heard, is not mine; but the Father's who sent me." (John 14:24)

Bigd is right about Hell too.

2/5/2016 2:35:43 AM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (20,869)
Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


I know good and well Bigd makes a lot of personal insults---that's why I blocked him. He insulted me all the time but I let it slide. Then he insulted someone I greatly respected, someone he had never met, so I blocked him.

All I'm saying is let's not stoop to his level. Let's discuss issues, not personalities. And let's never say so-and-so doesn't love God---we cannot read each other's souls, only God can do that.

Is that too much to ask?

2/5/2016 4:59:28 AM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  
deneez
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,068)
Rochester, MI
56, joined Apr. 2012


Quote from looptex1:
He still has scars? Blemishes?
Spots?



If He presents His wounds to the Father, He would forever retain them. By His wounds, we are healed.

He's not bleeding, but He is the Lamb who stands before the Father as if slain, but He stands, forever making atonement in the present.

Saint Augustine says: "Christ knew why He kept the scars in His body. For, as He showed them to Thomas who would not believe except he handled and saw them, so will He show His wounds to His enemies, so that He who is the Truth may convict them, saying: 'Behold the man whom you crucified; see the wounds you inflicted; recognize the side you pierced, since it was opened by you and for you, yet you would not enter."

I think His wounds will forever remain His victory.

BTW, as I read the thread you've stated it is not biblically supported that He retained them, I would suggest you haven't made a biblical argument that He no longer bears them. There is more support that He indeed does. After all, He forever makes atonement. You and I are healed by these wounds.



2/5/2016 6:52:17 AM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

looptex1
Over 2,000 Posts (3,689)
Chatsworth, GA
48, joined Jun. 2008


Quote from deneez:
If He presents His wounds to the Father, He would forever retain them. By His wounds, we are healed.

He's not bleeding, but He is the Lamb who stands before the Father as if slain, but He stands, forever making atonement in the present.

Saint Augustine says: "Christ knew why He kept the scars in His body. For, as He showed them to Thomas who would not believe except he handled and saw them, so will He show His wounds to His enemies, so that He who is the Truth may convict them, saying: 'Behold the man whom you crucified; see the wounds you inflicted; recognize the side you pierced, since it was opened by you and for you, yet you would not enter."

I think His wounds will forever remain His victory.

BTW, as I read the thread you've stated it is not biblically supported that He retained them, I would suggest you haven't made a biblical argument that He no longer bears them. There is more support that He indeed does. After all, He forever makes atonement. You and I are healed by these wounds.


Your correct deneez, I have not and cannot provide biblical evidence that he does not have the scars.
But IMO, I think the circumstantial evidence points to him not.

Was Christ the true, of the figure that was?
Was that figure allowed to be blemished?
Then should not the true also be perfect?

The argument of him having scars hinges on the fact he showed himself and the scars were seen.
Yet this argument has two problems to deal with.
1st, he had not yet ascended
2nd, flesh and blood cannot enter

The biblical evidence doesn't even suggest he has a body "that we could describe"
Paul spoke said "there is a natural body and there is a spiritual body" and IMO, this also applies to Jesus.
He was the word and became flesh, he always was, before he took on the body that they seen.
He was that rock they drank from in the wilderness.
Are we now gonna say he took on the form of sinful flesh and kept it?
IMO, there are more arguments against it than there are for it, that keep in line of the bible.

2/5/2016 8:06:35 AM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

rtay
Port Saint Lucie, FL
65, joined Aug. 2010
online now!


This might help answer your question about the wounds of Jesus.

Mark 16:12
12 After that, He appeared in a different form to two of them while they were walking along on their way to the country.

Mark 16:12 which says, "He hadhetera morphe. Hetera is the word from which we get heterogeneous which means different, homogeneous means the same. And morphemeans former body. The reason that Jesus was so hard to recognize was that He was in a glorified body, He had another form. He was in a body that was now supernatural.

John 20:19-28
On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” 20When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. 21Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.” 22And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”
Jesus and Thomas
24Now Thomas, one of the Twelve, called the Twin, was not with them when Jesus came. 25So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord.” But he said to them, “Unless I see in his hands the mark of the nails, and place my finger into the mark of the nails, and place my hand into his side, I will never believe.”
26Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.” 27Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.” 28Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” 29Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

You will notice that the doors were locked bec On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” 20When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. 21Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.” 22And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”
Jesus and Thomas
24Now Thomas, one of the Twelve, called the Twin, was not with them when Jesus came. 25So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord.” But he said to them, “Unless I see in his hands the mark of the nails, and place my finger into the mark of the nails, and place my hand into his side, I will never believe.”
26Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.” 27Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.” 28Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” 29Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
You will notice the doors were locked because of their fear of the Jews.Jesus appeared
to them in a glorified body.rt

2/5/2016 10:28:45 AM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  
mindya
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,086)
Jerusalem
Israel
63, joined Jan. 2009


(1 John 3:2 KJV) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

John claimed he did not know what the ascended Jesus looked like, if he still had scars etc. then he would have known what he looked like.

His visions in revelations are just that, visionary "seeing".

2/5/2016 11:34:18 AM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

louie6332
Over 2,000 Posts (3,517)
Falkville, AL
73, joined Nov. 2011


Looptex, you are denying in your last post that Christ rose from the dead. But his rising from the dead is a principal tenet of Christianity. And the Bible, which you pretend is your sole authority, does NOT say he did not rise from the dead. Perhaps you misspoke?

Louie

2/5/2016 11:36:20 AM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  
mindya
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,086)
Jerusalem
Israel
63, joined Jan. 2009


Quote from rtay:
You will notice the doors were locked because of their fear of the Jews.Jesus appeared
to them in a glorified body.rt


That's an assumption - Jesus did all sort of feats in his pre-crucifixion body.

2/5/2016 11:39:41 AM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

looptex1
Over 2,000 Posts (3,689)
Chatsworth, GA
48, joined Jun. 2008


Quote from louie6332:
Looptex, you are denying in your last post that Christ rose from the dead. But his rising from the dead is a principal tenet of Christianity. And the Bible, which you pretend is your sole authority, does NOT say he did not rise from the dead. Perhaps you misspoke?

Louie
and explain how I denied that he arose?

2/5/2016 12:14:14 PM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (20,869)
Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


Loop, I didn't understand you to say that Jesus didn't rise from the dead (how did Louie get that?) but would Jesus' scars, gained as they were, be blemishes? Don't His scars, gained as they were, make Him that much more beautiful?

You might be right about Jesus' scars dissapearing as He ascended. That's an interesting theory I never thought of before. I guess we won't know for sure unless/until we get to Heaven.

2/5/2016 1:16:29 PM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

looptex1
Over 2,000 Posts (3,689)
Chatsworth, GA
48, joined Jun. 2008


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Loop, I didn't understand you to say that Jesus didn't rise from the dead (how did Louie get that?) but would Jesus' scars, gained as they were, be blemishes? Don't His scars, gained as they were, make Him that much more beautiful?

You might be right about Jesus' scars dissapearing as He ascended. That's an interesting theory I never thought of before. I guess we won't know for sure unless/until we get to Heaven.
No doubt that what is beautiful to God, could be seen different to us humans.
But we can also ask the same question of the sacrifices they made in the OT.
God made everything, so would it be considered a blemish how a ram or bullock looked when it was born?
The smallest flaw, became the factor of rejection.
Jesus wasn't born with holes in his side, nobody is.
IMO, the reason for the scars or blemish wouldn't even be a factor.
It's perfect or its not perfect.

2/5/2016 1:48:00 PM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  
cupocheer
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (171,628)
Assumption, IL
67, joined May. 2010


Those people experiencing stigmata don't carry the scars after the episode is completed.

2/5/2016 2:24:15 PM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (20,869)
Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


The way I see it, these are the kinds of things Christians should meditate on, but we don't really know. They don't rise to the level of doctrine.

2/5/2016 3:25:38 PM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

louie6332
Over 2,000 Posts (3,517)
Falkville, AL
73, joined Nov. 2011


Looptex, you did say it. You said: “…Are we now gonna say he [Jesus Christ] took on the form of sinful flesh and kept it? IMO, there are more arguments against it than there are for it, that keep in line of the bible.” Looptex, you are questioning here that Christ rose from the dead.

And you are justifying this by asserting that flesh (the physical body) is sinful. But the opinion that flesh is inherently sinful is false. It is based on the opinion of the Church's speculative philosopher Augustine that the spiritual world is superior to the physical world, but that is also false. Anything, including the physical body, can be used for good or for bad; the physical world is not inherently bad in and of itself, as you are implying, nor is it inferior to the spiritual world as Augustine would have us believe. Spiritual bodies can ALSO be used for good or for evil; there are good spirits and there are evil spirits. What I am saying Looptex is that flesh is not inherently sinful as you are implying. That is false. And you are using that false opinion to suggest that Christ’s body did not rise from the dead. Don't try to squirm out of it.

You are also implying to Christ's body was sinful (because ALL flesh is sinful).

Louie



[Edited 2/5/2016 3:26:37 PM ]

2/5/2016 3:35:13 PM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,930)
Kingman, AZ
87, joined May. 2012
online now!


*
Quote from ludlowlowell:
And let's never say so-and-so doesn't love God---we cannot read each other's souls, only God can do that.

Is that too much to ask?


But it's Jesus himself who says that YOU don't love God, and you can't deny it because you refuse to obey God.

OK, let's talk about this since you brought it up. I'm glad you brought it up. No one has to look into anyone's soul to see that you don't love God. Your actions show that you don't love God.

Jesus said:

"Call no man your father upon the earth: "for one is your Father, which is in heaven." (Matthew 23:9)

And you refuse to obey Him. You even defy Him and do exactly what He said not to do. Your situation is identical to that of Eve listening to Satan and defying God.

And Jesus asks you:

Jesus: "Why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46)

And just like with Eve and Satan, your answer has to be, "The Catholic church beguiled me and I disobeyed You, God."

And Jesus says:

"If a man love me, he will keep my words."(John 14:23)
"He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings." (John 14:24)

Do you see John 14:24? He says clearly that if you don't keep His sayings, you do not love Him. And He further says His words are God the Father's words.

And the word which you have heard, is not mine; but the Father's who sent me." (John 14:24)

So how can you say you love God? It's impossible since you refuse to obey Him. And certainly someone who does not love God enough to obey Him will not be above lying about it, not only to others, but even to himself, as you do.

And please don't forget that your argument is WITH God, not with anyone here. The only way to show God that you love Him is to do as He said. But you put your church above God and you obey your church and you disobey God. And no, they are not the same. That's where your delusion starts. At one point you said, "Jesus IS the Church, and the Church is Jesus.

Jesus=Church
Church=Jesus
Jesus=Church
Church=Jesus
Jesus=Church
Church=Jesus"

Such wrong thinking that Jesus is your church and your church is Jesus is at the root of your confusion and disobedience to God and is a measure of just how duped you are. Your church has conflated itself with Jesus in your mind.

Jesus says you do not love Him. Who am I going to believe, you, or Jesus? No looking into anyone's soul is necessary to understand what Jesus said: "He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings." (John 14:24) Your actions show that you do not love God. You simply cannot deny it.

2/5/2016 3:53:46 PM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

looptex1
Over 2,000 Posts (3,689)
Chatsworth, GA
48, joined Jun. 2008


Quote from louie6332:
Looptex, you did say it. You said: “…Are we now gonna say he [Jesus Christ] took on the form of sinful flesh and kept it? IMO, there are more arguments against it than there are for it, that keep in line of the bible.” Looptex, you are questioning here that Christ rose from the dead.

And you are justifying this by asserting that flesh (the physical body) is sinful. But the opinion that flesh is inherently sinful is false. It is based on the opinion of the Church's speculative philosopher Augustine that the spiritual world is superior to the physical world, but that is also false. Anything, including the physical body, can be used for good or for bad; the physical world is not inherently bad in and of itself, as you are implying, nor is it inferior to the spiritual world as Augustine would have us believe. Spiritual bodies can ALSO be used for good or for evil; there are good spirits and there are evil spirits. What I am saying Looptex is that flesh is not inherently sinful as you are implying. That is false. And you are using that false opinion to suggest that Christ’s body did not rise from the dead. Don't try to squirm out of it.

You are also implying to Christ's body was sinful (because ALL flesh is sinful).

Louie

Louie, take the whole statement in context.

As for the sinful flesh statement, read your bible.

Partial quote
Romans 8: 3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh

2/6/2016 4:45:57 AM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  
deneez
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,068)
Rochester, MI
56, joined Apr. 2012


The argument of him having scars hinges on the fact he showed himself and the scars were seen.
Yet this argument has two problems to deal with.
1st, he had not yet ascended
2nd, flesh and blood cannot enter

The biblical evidence doesn't even suggest he has a body "that we could describe"


His post resurrection Body was described by those that were given the joy of seeing it, touching it, and sharing a meal with Him...He tells Thomas to touch and believe, a 'Spirit' does not have flesh and bones, yet post resurrection ( a resurrection of the Body), our Lord does.

Call it a Spiritual Body, or a Glorified Body, call this Body what you'd like from what we've been told but it maintained the trophy of a great victory over sin.

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven as it is right now. The resurrected Body is quite different.



2/6/2016 4:47:05 AM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  
deneez
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,068)
Rochester, MI
56, joined Apr. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
The way I see it, these are the kinds of things Christians should meditate on, but we don't really know. They don't rise to the level of doctrine.


ok, Amen

2/6/2016 10:52:19 AM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

looptex1
Over 2,000 Posts (3,689)
Chatsworth, GA
48, joined Jun. 2008


Quote from deneez:
His post resurrection Body was described by those that were given the joy of seeing it, touching it, and sharing a meal with Him...He tells Thomas to touch and believe, a 'Spirit' does not have flesh and bones, yet post resurrection ( a resurrection of the Body), our Lord does.

Call it a Spiritual Body, or a Glorified Body, call this Body what you'd like from what we've been told but it maintained the trophy of a great victory over sin.

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven as it is right now. The resurrected Body is quite different.


How so?
The bible doesn't teach that.
Where does it speak of a resurrected body being different?
Lazurus, he was resurrected, was he in a glorified body?
Was his body now "fit" to enter I to heaven?
However, the bible does teach of a natural body and a spiritual body.
Terrestrial bodies and celestial bodies.
Jesus himself, tells us he isn't in a spiritual body, "Does a spirit have flesh and bone as ye see I have"
So to assume he is in a glorified body, a spiritual body, any body other than the fleshly body goes against what the bible teaches.
And the Bible doesn't say resurrected flesh can enter, it say flesh cannot enter.
Does jesus, after saying goes flesh cannot inherit the Kingdom, violate his own words?
It's not a matter of what I believe, it's a matter of what the bible teaches.

2/6/2016 11:52:04 AM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  
deneez
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,068)
Rochester, MI
56, joined Apr. 2012


How so?
The bible doesn't teach that.
Where does it speak of a resurrected body being different?
Lazurus, he was resurrected, was he in a glorified body?
Was his body now "fit" to enter I to heaven?
However, the bible does teach of a natural body and a spiritual body.
Terrestrial bodies and celestial bodies.?


As sure as I can safely assume Jesus laughed in his life time, I can safely assume HIs Body was 'different' after resurrecting. He could never be put to death again.

We call it everlasting life, scriptural and a promise.

Was Lazarus resurrected?

Yep.

Can we safely assume he more than likely 'died' a natural death again? Sure.

Why?

bCuz he's not alive today, as well as the fact he'd be 'the first born of the dead'.

That title belongs to Jesus Christ Himself alone.

The Lazaraus resurrection was a show of the power of God utilized to Glorify HIm and believe in His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, who was ALWAYS the son from the foundation of the world and 'chose' to be born in a humble manner. Hence HIs title's, Son of God...Son of Man, True God, True Man.

This idea that He is a spiritual Body after His resurrection denies a resurrection of the Flesh, and it's something I hope you are not attempting to do.

BTW, it's promised to us as well, "And, I will raise you on the Last Day", never to die again. Cool eh?

2/6/2016 11:58:09 AM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  
deneez
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,068)
Rochester, MI
56, joined Apr. 2012


So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. "For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink.…John 6

To speak to your Topic He comes every day, from the rising to the setting of the sun, and His name is Great among the Gentiles..only now there is a veil, until we see Him face to face as He is, and we will be like HIm.

Hasn't happened yet. Not going to argue, but Truth couldn't be more scriptural or more understood, it is what it is. Opinions don't suffice.

2/6/2016 1:45:49 PM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

isna_la_wica
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,748)
Brantford, ON
61, joined Mar. 2012


Quote from deneez:
So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. "For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink.…John 6

To speak to your Topic He comes every day, from the rising to the setting of the sun, and His name is Great among the Gentiles..only now there is a veil, until we see Him face to face as He is, and we will be like HIm.

Hasn't happened yet. Not going to argue, but Truth couldn't be more scriptural or more understood, it is what it is. Opinions don't suffice.


I am leaning towards what you say here.

And agree 100% with this:"To speak to your Topic He comes every day, from the rising to the setting of the sun, and His name is Great among the Gentiles..only now there is a veil, until we see Him face to face as He is, and we will be like HIm."


This happens when we die though, right?

Or at some time in the future? And in the mean time our souls sleep in the grave?

I have a hard time understanding the "when". I just cannot see where in history Jesus already returned. But cannot find soul sleep as being scriptural like most of the futurists claim.

So we have to see Christ before a physical resurrection, no?

2/6/2016 2:03:06 PM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

louie6332
Over 2,000 Posts (3,517)
Falkville, AL
73, joined Nov. 2011


I understand what you are saying Looptex (in your last post on the last page): following Paul, who was stumbling all over his own feet to reconcile things in Rom 8:3, you preach that Jesus Christ inhabited “sinful flesh and sin”. But that is false, Jesus Christ was sinless, and his flesh was sinless. Paul was not a prophet, and he was not taught by Christ or his original apostles and he often contradicted Christ and his apostles and even himself as he stumbled over his own feet trying to explain things. Who are you going to follow, Looptex, Paul or Jesus Christ and his original apostles? Since you lack discernment Looptex, play it safe and stick with Christ and his original apostles.

Louie



[Edited 2/6/2016 2:04:22 PM ]

2/6/2016 3:04:06 PM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

looptex1
Over 2,000 Posts (3,689)
Chatsworth, GA
48, joined Jun. 2008


Quote from deneez:
As sure as I can safely assume Jesus laughed in his life time, I can safely assume HIs Body was 'different' after resurrecting. He could never be put to death again.

We call it everlasting life, scriptural and a promise.

Was Lazarus



[Edited 2/6/2016 3:05:03 PM ]

2/6/2016 3:12:29 PM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

looptex1
Over 2,000 Posts (3,689)
Chatsworth, GA
48, joined Jun. 2008


Quote from louie6332:
I understand what you are saying Looptex (in your last post on the last page): following Paul, who was stumbling all over his own feet to reconcile things in Rom 8:3, you preach that Jesus Christ inhabited “sinful flesh and sin”. But that is false, Jesus Christ was sinless, and his flesh was sinless. Paul was not a prophet, and he was not taught by Christ or his original apostles and he often contradicted Christ and his apostles and even himself as he stumbled over his own feet trying to explain things. Who are you going to follow, Looptex, Paul or Jesus Christ and his original apostles? Since you lack discernment Looptex, play it safe and stick with Christ and his original apostles.

Louie
wow I can't believe you have to gall to speak against Paul and pretend you know more than he.
Especially after all the bull you spewed a few months back that didn't come to pass.
Now my intentions wasn't to hound you about it.
But if your gonna start speaking lies about Paul and him being a false apostle, I'll just start reminding you of your recent prediction failure.
You do remember the comet don't you? And Florida, was is Russia was suppose to bomb us after that?
You've been talking to Steve and kb and a couple more to much.

2/6/2016 4:21:55 PM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  
mindya
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,086)
Jerusalem
Israel
63, joined Jan. 2009


These Anti-Paul's make me laff, he was the perfect choice for an apostle to explain the gospel and it's relationship to the old testament.

Peter could not hold a candle to Paul in regards to understanding.

(Acts 22:3 KJV) I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.

Louie's Comet no where to be seen...

2/6/2016 5:00:37 PM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,930)
Kingman, AZ
87, joined May. 2012
online now!


Quote from louie6332:
I understand what you are saying Looptex (in your last post on the last page): following Paul, who was stumbling all over his own feet to reconcile things in Rom 8:3, you preach that Jesus Christ inhabited “sinful flesh and sin”. But that is false, Jesus Christ was sinless, and his flesh was sinless. Paul was not a prophet, and he was not taught by Christ or his original apostles and he often contradicted Christ and his apostles and even himself as he stumbled over his own feet trying to explain things. Who are you going to follow, Looptex, Paul or Jesus Christ and his original apostles? Since you lack discernment Looptex, play it safe and stick with Christ and his original apostles.

Louie


GO Louie!



2/6/2016 7:08:27 PM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (20,869)
Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


Human flesh was originally pure but became impure when Adam and Eve sinned. Mary was born without original sin by a miracle from God, so Jesus, Who was born unto her, was free of original sin as well.

2/6/2016 11:07:38 PM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,930)
Kingman, AZ
87, joined May. 2012
online now!


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Human flesh was originally pure but became impure when Adam and Eve sinned. Mary was born without original sin by a miracle from God, so Jesus, Who was born unto her, was free of original sin as well.


All Catholic assertions.

2/7/2016 12:19:42 AM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  
deneez
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,068)
Rochester, MI
56, joined Apr. 2012


Quote from isna_la_wica:
I am leaning towards what you say here.

And agree 100% with this:"To speak to your Topic He comes every day, from the rising to the setting of the sun, and His name is Great among the Gentiles..only now there is a veil, until we see Him face to face as He is, and we will be like HIm."


This happens when we die though, right?

Or at some time in the future? And in the mean time our souls sleep in the grave?

I have a hard time understanding the "when". I just cannot see where in history Jesus already returned. But cannot find soul sleep as being scriptural like most of the futurists claim.

So we have to see Christ before a physical resurrection, no?


Hey, how have you been?

If to be away from the body is to be present to the Lord, seems to me soul sleep is not a doctrine one could wrap their head around. Jesus, being fully God, fully human, died a physical death at which time He said, "Father, into your hands I commend my Spirit"..there is no evidence this spirit slept or was annihilated..what sleeps in the dust is the body until it be rejoined to the spirit in the general resurrection, that is my understanding through the deposit of faith.

Scripture tells us the 'same' Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead will give life to our mortal bodies as well. Some say this doesn't speak of a 'bodily' resurrection and emphasizes a spiritual resurrection such as what St. Paul speaks of in regards to baptism. However, this completely dismisses that the Spirit will give life to our mortal bodies in the same way He does to Jesus...Bodily. Jesus Christ never needed a spiritual resurrection, point blank, bottom line. It's ignored because it destroys the concept it has already happened...a stretch of theology at best, everything is spiritual, a type of Gnosticism.

rambling on, if one really contemplates it, He's here right now. Gives a new meaning to what you did to the least of these you did to Me.

closest to the wounded, those considered most inferior, the poor in spirit, the broken hearted, the most unloved. HE hangs with these guys.



[Edited 2/7/2016 12:20:57 AM ]

2/7/2016 2:03:44 AM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

erikbenn
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,928)
Spokane, WA
41, joined Nov. 2010


Quote from looptex1:
Revelations 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

I'm guessing your wondering what scientific data I'm speaking of.

well, let's look closely at what John has seen here.
We know the previous verses speak of the 144000 sealed from the tribes of Israel.

then we have this vision John sees, a great multitude, so great that they can't even be numbered.

Does anyone know what the highest number known to man is?
Is there such a number?
Maybe, maybe not, but let's just look at what we numbers we do have.
according to scientific estimates, the total number of humans ever born from Adam and eve, until now, is between 108-125 billion.
now, no doubt that is a great number, and would be a great multitude.
But the fact that man can number it presents a problem.

John saw a multitude that no man could number, it's impossible.
so already, if everyone that had ever lived was counted, John still seen more in the vision.

So to be clear here, in 4-7000 years, there has not been enough people born to be such a great multitude.

let's go deeper.
let's look at the number 250 or 300 billion.
still, a number than man can attain, Count, number if needed..
If it took 4-7000 years to get to the number of 125 billion born, could we safely say it would take another 4-7000 to reach the 250-300 billion mark?
And even then, if the 300 billion mark was reached, it has not surpassed a number no man can number.

let's go deeper
The 300 billion, is counting all of the human race ever born.
but John seen not the whole human race, but those who had washed their robes in the blood of the lamb.
so immediately, we have to assume that 200-250 billion of the 300 billion are not part of john's vision.
why?
Because Jesus said that there were FEW that would enter.
and many that would not enter.

well few of 300 billion may be 50-100 billion, few certainly wouldn't be 250 billion.

so now in the year 9016, we have 300 billion born since the beginning of time, and an estimated 50-100 billion available to be part of john's vision.
50-100 billion is a long ways from innumerable, and this estimated number wouldn't be reached for another 7000 years.
so much for "soon"
Since when does God go by what science says?

2/7/2016 1:58:40 PM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

louie6332
Over 2,000 Posts (3,517)
Falkville, AL
73, joined Nov. 2011


Erikbenn, are you suggesting that God is immune from the laws of physics? If a LAW of physics is EVER violated, it is not a “law”. The laws of physics apply to everything in the Universe, at all times, everywhere in the Universe. Everything obeys the laws of physics. (You can test this yourself if you like by jumping off a tall building and seeing if you fall).

The followers of Augustine have defined miracles as violations of the laws of physics, but that’s philosophy, not revelation. Miracles only “appear” to violate the laws of physics; they are performed through laws that are currently unknown to us. And no, we are far from knowing all the laws of physics. Actually, I can give you a current real life example of this. There are these mysterious electromagnetic free energy anomalies in which more energy appears than we put into it, giving the uncanny appearance of a violation of the law of conservation of energy-momentum. Some researchers suggest that the law is being violated in these anomalies. I have researched these anomalies for some years now and understood them and derived them from a well known but little used differential equation. What led me to this was the assumption that the law, which at first blush appeared to be violated, was NOT being violated. That assumption led me directly to the nature of the phenomenon. Miracles are the same way. The first step to understanding the nature of miracles would be to assume that the laws of physics are not being violated. True laws of physics can never be violated.

Can only God perform miracles? Well, it is foretold that the Antichrist, when he arises, will perform a great many miracles, astonishing miracles, and more miracles than Christ. Pundits, who presume that only God can perform miracles, try to say that these will not be true miracles. But they are qualifying what the prophecies say, the prophecies do not say that he will perform what will “appear” to be miracles, it says he will perform miracles (and that God has given him permission to do it, in order to test men). But it matters not, for no one seeing them will be able to tell the difference, so this discussion is academic.

I say again, and this needs to be emphasized: true science, true history, and right reason do not contradict true religion, for truth does not contradict truth. And these things can all be used to support each other. There is nothing wrong with using right reason to discern true from false religion and to discern the meaning of scripture when there is a question about its meaning. God the Father says he made man in his own image “possessed with right reason”. He gave us right reason and he expects us to use it. If right reason or true science ever contradicts a supposed interpretation of accurately recorded Scripture, that is proof positive that the interpretation is wrong. And remember, God is a God of Truth, he does not contradict himself either. Paul contradicted himself as he stumbled over his own feet in formulating his doctrine of salvation by faith, but God does not.

Louie

2/7/2016 2:37:08 PM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  
cupocheer
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (171,628)
Assumption, IL
67, joined May. 2010


Louie... Are you suggesting God isn't immune to the law of physics?

2/7/2016 4:16:09 PM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,930)
Kingman, AZ
87, joined May. 2012
online now!


*
Louie, it's kind of in-and-out, hit-and-miss, but sometimes some of the things you say are actually quite advanced for most of the DH fundy Christians. Sometimes I think you may have actually read The Urantia Book or parts of it. It does appear that you are more open to the Spirit of Truth that Jesus said would guide us (if we let it) into "all truth."

This statement is particularly enlightened, Louie. Good one: "The followers of Augustine have defined miracles as violations of the laws of physics, but that’s philosophy, not revelation. Miracles only “appear” to violate the laws of physics; they are performed through laws that are currently unknown to us. And no, we are far from knowing all the laws of physics."

Excellent.

Quote from louie6332:
Erikbenn, are you suggesting that God is immune from the laws of physics? If a LAW of physics is EVER violated, it is not a “law”. The laws of physics apply to everything in the Universe, at all times, everywhere in the Universe. Everything obeys the laws of physics. (You can test this yourself if you like by jumping off a tall building and seeing if you fall).

The followers of Augustine have defined miracles as violations of the laws of physics, but that’s philosophy, not revelation. Miracles only “appear” to violate the laws of physics; they are performed through laws that are currently unknown to us. And no, we are far from knowing all the laws of physics. Actually, I can give you a current real life example of this. There are these mysterious electromagnetic free energy anomalies in which more energy appears than we put into it, giving the uncanny appearance of a violation of the law of conservation of energy-momentum. Some researchers suggest that the law is being violated in these anomalies. I have researched these anomalies for some years now and understood them and derived them from a well known but little used differential equation. What led me to this was the assumption that the law, which at first blush appeared to be violated, was NOT being violated. That assumption led me directly to the nature of the phenomenon. Miracles are the same way. The first step to understanding the nature of miracles would be to assume that the laws of physics are not being violated. True laws of physics can never be violated.

Can only God perform miracles? Well, it is foretold that the Antichrist, when he arises, will perform a great many miracles, astonishing miracles, and more miracles than Christ. Pundits, who presume that only God can perform miracles, try to say that these will not be true miracles. But they are qualifying what the prophecies say, the prophecies do not say that he will perform what will “appear” to be miracles, it says he will perform miracles (and that God has given him permission to do it, in order to test men). But it matters not, for no one seeing them will be able to tell the difference, so this discussion is academic.

I say again, and this needs to be emphasized: true science, true history, and right reason do not contradict true religion, for truth does not contradict truth. And these things can all be used to support each other. There is nothing wrong with using right reason to discern true from false religion and to discern the meaning of scripture when there is a question about its meaning. God the Father says he made man in his own image “possessed with right reason”. He gave us right reason and he expects us to use it. If right reason or true science ever contradicts a supposed interpretation of accurately recorded Scripture, that is proof positive that the interpretation is wrong. And remember, God is a God of Truth, he does not contradict himself either. Paul contradicted himself as he stumbled over his own feet in formulating his doctrine of salvation by faith, but God does not.

Louie


2/7/2016 4:51:57 PM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,930)
Kingman, AZ
87, joined May. 2012
online now!


I must have missed this:

Quote from ludlowlowell:
If the Urantia Book teaches that Jesus didn't literally bodily rise from the grave, the Urantia Book is teaching colossal error.


No, not really. That's why Jesus told Mary to "touch me not," (John 20:17)

I'm sorry if this conflicts with the doctrines you've been indoctrinated with, but Jesus did not rise in a physical body. Just because you have been taught one thing does not mean that someone else's belief is "colossal error."

The three Marys and the apostles Peter and John saw with their very eyes that Jesus was not in the tomb---they didn't have some spiritual awakening to this.


I have no idea what you're talking about, "spiritual awakening," blah blah, and neither do you.

Also, poor thinker that you are, you have just made a logical error, a non sequitur, and created a strawman. It does not follow that because Jesus was not in the tomb, that he rose in a flesh body. That's a non sequitur. The fact that Jesus' body was not in the tomb means that Jesus' body was not in the tomb. That's all it means.

Why are people afraid to believe that Jesus literally rose from the dead,


Who is afraid to believe that? Who are you arguing with about that? Who here has said that Jesus didn't rise from the dead? No one. That's your strawman.

or that He was literally born of a virgin,


That's another subject, isn't it? Why are you muddying the water with it? Maybe you should start another thread about Mary's virginity.

or that He literally walked on water, or any of His other miracles?


More confusion.

Jesus is God, just like the Father and the Holy Spirit, and He has the power to work miracles.


Who are you arguing with? Who here has said that Jesus is not God and/or that He doesn't have the power to work miracles? Isn't rising from the dead physically OR spiritually miracle enough for you? Why is it only a miracle if it's the way you already believe and not a miracle if it's not quite the way you already believe?

If Jesus created human life, the human birth process, water, and other things in nature, if He has that much power, then He can suspend the laws of nature to do something wonderful like rising from the dead. If we really believe that Jesus is God Incarnate, why is it hard for us to believe in His miracles?


Who are you arguing with? Who has said it was hard for them to believe in His miracles? No one that I know of.

IF YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS GOD INCARNATE, WHY DO YOU REFUSE TO OBEY HIM, AND WHY DO YOU DEFY HIM? ACCORDING TO JESUS YOU DON'T EVEN LOVE GOD. Why should anyone listen to anyone like you who Jesus says does not even love God?

"If a man love me, he will keep my words."(John 14:23)
"He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings." (John 14:24)

And the word which you have heard, is not mine; but the Father's who sent me." (John 14:24)

Did you even read what I previously posted about why the tomb was empty? Here it is again, in Part 2:

2/7/2016 4:52:38 PM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,930)
Kingman, AZ
87, joined May. 2012
online now!


Part 2

THE MATERIAL BODY OF JESUS

189:2.1 At ten minutes past three o’clock, as the resurrected Jesus fraternized with the assembled morontia personalities from the seven mansion worlds of Satania, the chief of archangels—the angels of the resurrection—approached Gabriel and asked for the mortal body of Jesus. Said the chief of the archangels: “We may not participate in the morontia resurrection of the bestowal experience of Michael our sovereign, but we would have his mortal remains put in our custody for immediate dissolution. We do not propose to employ our technique of dematerialization; we merely wish to invoke the process of accelerated time. It is enough that we have seen the Sovereign live and die on Urantia; the hosts of heaven would be spared the memory of enduring the sight of the slow decay of the human form of the Creator and Upholder of a universe. In the name of the celestial intelligences of all Nebadon, I ask for a mandate giving me the custody of the mortal body of Jesus of Nazareth and empowering us to proceed with its immediate dissolution.”

189:2.2 And when Gabriel had conferred with the senior Most High of Edentia, the archangel spokesman for the celestial hosts was given permission to make such disposition of the physical remains of Jesus as he might determine.

189:2.3 After the chief of archangels had been granted this request, he summoned to his assistance many of his fellows, together with a numerous host of the representatives of all orders of celestial personalities, and then, with the aid of the Urantia midwayers, proceeded to take possession of Jesus’ physical body. This body of death was a purely material creation; it was physical and literal; it could not be removed from the tomb as the morontia form of the resurrection had been able to escape the sealed sepulchre. By the aid of certain morontia auxiliary personalities, the morontia form can be made at one time as of the spirit so that it can become indifferent to ordinary matter, while at another time it can become discernible and contactable to material beings, such as the mortals of the realm.

189:2.4 As they made ready to remove the body of Jesus from the tomb preparatory to according it the dignified and reverent disposal of near-instantaneous dissolution, it was assigned the secondary Urantia midwayers to roll away the stones from the entrance of the tomb. The larger of these two stones was a huge circular affair, much like a millstone, and it moved in a groove chiseled out of the rock, so that it could be rolled back and forth to open or close the tomb. When the watching Jewish guards and the Roman soldiers, in the dim light of the morning, saw this huge stone begin to roll away from the entrance of the tomb, apparently of its own accord—without any visible means to account for such motion—they were seized with fear and panic, and they fled in haste from the scene. The Jews fled to their homes, afterward going back to report these doings to their captain at the temple. The Romans fled to the fortress of Antonia and reported what they had seen to the centurion as soon as he arrived on duty.

189:2.5 The Jewish leaders began the sordid business of supposedly getting rid of Jesus by offering bribes to the traitorous Judas, and now, when confronted with this embarrassing situation, instead of thinking of punishing the guards who deserted their post, they resorted to bribing these guards and the Roman soldiers. They paid each of these twenty men a sum of money and instructed them to say to all: “While we slept during the nighttime, his disciples came upon us and took away the body.” And the Jewish leaders made solemn promises to the soldiers to defend them before Pilate in case it should ever come to the governor’s knowledge that they had accepted a bribe.

189:2.6 The Christian belief in the resurrection of Jesus has been based on the fact of the “empty tomb.” It was indeed a fact that the tomb was empty, but this is not the truth of the resurrection. The tomb was truly empty when the first believers arrived, and this fact, associated with that of the undoubted resurrection of the Master, led to the formulation of a belief which was not true: the teaching that the material and mortal body of Jesus was raised from the grave. Truth having to do with spiritual realities and eternal values cannot always be built up by a combination of apparent facts. Although individual facts may be materially true, it does not follow that the association of a group of facts must necessarily lead to truthful spiritual conclusions.

189:2.7 The tomb of Joseph was empty, not because the body of Jesus had been rehabilitated or resurrected, but because the celestial hosts had been granted their request to afford it a special and unique dissolution, a return of the “dust to dust,” without the intervention of the delays of time and without the operation of the ordinary and visible processes of mortal decay and material corruption.

189:2.8 The mortal remains of Jesus underwent the same natural process of elemental disintegration as characterizes all human bodies on earth except that, in point of time, this natural mode of dissolution was greatly accelerated, hastened to that point where it became well-nigh instantaneous.

189:2.9 The true evidences of the resurrection of Michael are spiritual in nature, albeit this teaching is corroborated by the testimony of many mortals of the realm who met, recognized, and communed with the resurrected morontia Master. He became a part of the personal experience of almost one thousand human beings before he finally took leave of Urantia. -The Urantia Book

2/7/2016 6:01:05 PM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  
cupocheer
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (171,628)
Assumption, IL
67, joined May. 2010




2/7/2016 7:14:15 PM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

louie6332
Over 2,000 Posts (3,517)
Falkville, AL
73, joined Nov. 2011


Mary and Joseph were told by an angel to name the Messiah, not “Michael”, but “Jesus”. Furthermore, the Urantia book assertion that Jesus is Michael the Archangel reincarnated contradicts the revelations that God gave to his Church through the Catholic prophets that he is the only begotten son of God. And they reveal that Michael the Archangel was an angel, and that God created the angels. This is inconsistent with what the Urantia Book is saying.

The Urantia Book says that the body of Jesus became corrupt, that is, rotted, fell to dust, in an accelerated process, instantly. But in the Catholic Church are found the bodies of Saints that remain incorrupt in the grave indefinitely (you can find lists of them from an Internet search), these bodies are pliable, maintain the color of living flesh, do not rot, even have red blood in wounds, give off a fragrance, etc. I have understood that this phenomenon is exhibited by Saints who remained virgins (sexually pure) all their lives. The Urantia Book (189:2:4) is asking us to believe that the body of Jesus fell instantly to dust (presumably as soon as the tomb was sealed), which implies that he was not a saint who remained a virgin all his life, and that his body was a pile of dust when the tomb was found open less than three days later. We have no record of such a pile of dust being found, what was found was the shroud in which his body had been wrapped, and it was not full of dust. And God has given revelations to the Catholic prophets that confirm that his physical body remained incorrupt, and that it rose from the dead incorrupt.

The Urantia Book (189:2:6) is saying that the resurrection of the physical body of Christ is based on nothing more than an assumption drawn from the fact that the tomb was found empty. But God has given revelations to the Catholic prophets that confirm that his physical body rose from the dead: God himself is confirming it in these revelations. And if HE does not know, WHO does? And remember, his physical body later ascended into the heavens from the Mount of Olives, and the Apostles personally witnessed this. They did not witness a pile of dust ascending, but the physical, living body of Christ ascending.

God himself is claiming to speak through his Catholic prophets. God himself is not claiming to speak through the Urantia Book authors. And since the two contradict each other, they cannot both be true. If God is a God of truth, if he does not lie or deceive, and if he is contradicting the revelations in the Urantia Book, then the Urantia Book cannot be of divine origin. If one is of divine origin, the other is not. I think what is presented here from the Urantia book is, alone, proof that it is not of divine origin.

Furthermore, the fact that the Urantia Book got the dates of Christ wrong elsewhere is additional proof that it is not of divine origin. Angels have a way to look back into time to see the events of Christ. The authors of the Urantia Book either have no way to do this, or they are not being truthful. The authors of the Urantia Book are not who they claim they are.

Does one really have to read through 2000 pages of verbiage to discern if it is of divine origin or not, when we have this?

Louie

2/7/2016 7:48:24 PM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (20,869)
Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


Louie, do you think that the 700,000 "creator sons" of the Urantia Book make the Urantia Book pantheistic and therefore pagan?

2/7/2016 10:12:37 PM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,930)
Kingman, AZ
87, joined May. 2012
online now!


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Louie, do you think that the 700,000 "creator sons" of the Urantia Book make the Urantia Book pantheistic and therefore pagan?


There are no "creator sons" in The Urantia Book. They are capitalized, divine Creator Sons of God, just like Jesus. They are all God. They are spoken of in the Book of Job, the Creator Sons and their archangels, their "Gabriels," the Morning Stars:

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

And at this point, Louie doesn't know any more about it than you do. Why are you appealing to him for support?



[Edited 2/7/2016 10:13:50 PM ]

2/8/2016 12:11:27 AM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,930)
Kingman, AZ
87, joined May. 2012
online now!


Quote from louie6332:
Mary and Joseph were told by an angel to name the Messiah, not “Michael”, but “Jesus”.


Strawman, Louie. I never said J & M were told to name Jesus "Michael." Jesus is Jesus' name.

Furthermore, the Urantia book assertion that Jesus is Michael the Archangel reincarnated contradicts the revelations that God gave to his Church through the Catholic prophets that he is the only begotten son of God.


Louie, settle down. The Urantia Book does NOT say that Jesus is Michael the Archangel, reincarnated or otherwise. Also, you are using the word "reincarnated" improperly. You can only be reincarnated if you have been incarnated once in the first place. Angels are never incarnaed or reincarnated. Reincarnated means "in the flesh again." That never happens to angels, Louie.

And The Urantia Book does say that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.

And they reveal that Michael the Archangel was an angel,


Who is they Louie? Not The Urantia Book. The Urantia Book does NOT say that Michael the Archangel was an angel. In fact, Louie, there is no Michael the Archangel. Gabriel is the name of the Archangel. Oh, you mean your alleged Catholic prophets say that? That's ridiculous, Louie. Are they the same ones who told you about the comet?

Have you ever read the Book of Daniel, Louie? In it, it says that Michael is a PRINCE. Do you know what a prince is, Louie? A prince is the son of a king. Angels are not princes, Louie.

and that God created the angels. This is inconsistent with what the Urantia Book is saying.


I think you're confused Louie. The Urantia Book says that God created the angels. What do you think The Urantia Book says? When did you read it, by the way?

The Urantia Book says that the body of Jesus became corrupt, that is, rotted, fell to dust, in an accelerated process, instantly.


Instantly. Yes, that's what the celestials did to it so that the universe would not have to see it slowly decay.

But in the Catholic Church are found the bodies of Saints that remain incorrupt in the grave indefinitely (you can find lists of them from an Internet search), these bodies are pliable, maintain the color of living flesh, do not rot, even have red blood in wounds, give off a fragrance, etc.


I'm sure they give off a fragrance, Louie. Anyway, no one cares about your dead Catholic saints and their dead bodies which should have been buried properly or cremeated, and I doubt if anyone believes what you just said about them either. Anyone? IS there anyone here who believes that the bodies of Catholic Saints remain incorrupt in the grave indefinitely and that these bodies are pliable, maintain the color of living flesh, do not rot, and even have red blood in wounds, etc.? Does anyone here believe that nonsense? And who wants to look it up? And it has nothing to do with what happened to Jesus' body in any case. In most civilized places in the world, Louie, it would be against the law to keep dead bodies around for as long as you Catholics do with your unholy putrifying relics.

I have understood that this phenomenon is exhibited by Saints who remained virgins (sexually pure) all their lives.


Nonsense, Louie. God does not want people to remain sexually pure or remain virgins. Don't you know what God said?: "Be fruitful, and multiply." (Gen 1:28) You can hardly be fruitful and multiply if you remain a virgin and/or "sexually pure" as you say. That's crazy talk, Louie.

The Urantia Book (189:2:4) is asking us to believe that the body of Jesus fell instantly to dust (presumably as soon as the tomb was sealed), which implies that he was not a saint who remained a virgin all his life, and that his body was a pile of dust when the tomb was found open less than three days later. We have no record of such a pile of dust being found, what was found was the shroud in which his body had been wrapped, and it was not full of dust. And God has given revelations to the Catholic prophets that confirm that his physical body remained incorrupt, and that it rose from the dead incorrupt.


Louie, the above material is so bizarre and occult that I'm not going to comment on it right now, but where does it say in the bible that the bodies of virgins don't rot just like the rest of us, or that virgins are saints? Louie, you need to correct your thinking. I believe you have it in you to do that. You've given some signs that you are open to the Spirit of Truth. Ask the Spirit of Truth about all that nonsense. See what He says.

Continued in Part 2

2/8/2016 12:11:41 AM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,930)
Kingman, AZ
87, joined May. 2012
online now!


Part 2

The Urantia Book (189:2:6) is saying that the resurrection of the physical body of Christ is based on nothing more than an assumption drawn from the fact that the tomb was found empty.


Yes, that's right Louie. But why isn't a spiritual resurrection good enough for you, Louie? Isn't the important thing that Jesus resurrected, Louie? Louie, Jesus told Mary to "touch me not" because He was no longer in a material, physical form. (John 20:17)

But God has given revelations to the Catholic prophets that confirm that his physical body rose from the dead: God himself is confirming it in these revelations. And if HE does not know, WHO does? And remember, his physical body later ascended into the heavens from the Mount of Olives, and the Apostles personally witnessed this. They did not witness a pile of dust ascending, but the physical, living body of Christ ascending.


Louie, Jesus' spiritual body was visible to those who saw him. He made it so. And you should stop appealing to your imaginary catholic prophets for support. It's like laying down a magical trump card to try to win the discussion.

God himself is claiming to speak through his Catholic prophets.


Nobody believes that nonsense except for you, Louie. You should stop playing that trump card. How can you prove that God is claiming to speak through His "Catholic prophets"? This is not the Catholic prophets forum. It's the Christian forum. You're just barely a Christian now, Louie. Ludlow says you're a heretic. You should ask the management to create a new exclusive forum just for Catholics where you can all discuss what your imaginary catholic prophets said.

God himself is not claiming to speak through the Urantia Book authors.


God is not claiming to speak through your Catholic prophets either, Louie. That's just what someone told you, some crazy person probably.

And since the two contradict each other, they cannot both be true. If God is a God of truth, if he does not lie or deceive, and if he is contradicting the revelations in the Urantia Book, then the Urantia Book cannot be of divine origin.


Maybe it's your Catholic prophets which cannot be of divine origin. Just because you claim that God is speaking through your "prophets" doesn't mean that He is.

If one is of divine origin, the other is not. I think what is presented here from the Urantia book is, alone, proof that it is not of divine origin.


What have you presented that proves that, Louie? Also, we never say The Urantia Book is "of divine origin." We would never make such a claim. We say it's from God's celestial government. God doesn't personally write books. God has angels.

Furthermore, the fact that the Urantia Book got the dates of Christ wrong elsewhere is additional proof that it is not of divine origin.


What are you talking about? What dates of "Christ" are wrong in The Urantia Book?

Angels have a way to look back into time to see the events of Christ. The authors of the Urantia Book either have no way to do this, or they are not being truthful. The authors of the Urantia Book are not who they claim they are.


All of the dates in The Urantia Book are correct. You can check any of them with an online calendar that goes back to the year one. Not only are the dates correct, but the days of the week are correct as well. Every one of them is right. That would have been hard to do before computers in 1955.

Does one really have to read through 2000 pages of verbiage to discern if it is of divine origin or not, when we have this?


When you have what? Your spacey, emaciated Catholic prophets?

Yes, you do need to read it, Louie. You need to invite the Spirit of Truth into your heart and into your mind and read it with Him. He will validate it for you if you are open to "all truth," as Jesus said.

2/8/2016 1:25:41 AM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,930)
Kingman, AZ
87, joined May. 2012
online now!


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Louie, do you think that the 700,000 "creator sons" of the Urantia Book make the Urantia Book pantheistic and therefore pagan?


Why are you asking a guy who you recently called a heretic?

2/8/2016 3:18:21 AM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

erikbenn
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,928)
Spokane, WA
41, joined Nov. 2010


Louie, God can do whatever He wants. He CREATED the universe.

2/8/2016 11:52:05 AM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

louie6332
Over 2,000 Posts (3,517)
Falkville, AL
73, joined Nov. 2011


Errikbenn, you say: “God can do whatever he wants.” Errik, such statements as this quickly lead to logical paradoxes.

For example: Can God do everything? Yes. Well, can God make a rock that is so heavy he cannot lift it? Yes. Well, then that is something he cannot do, he cannot lift it. Oh, I’m sorry, I misspoke, he CAN lift it. Well, then that is something he cannot do, he cannot make such a rock.

When you over generalize something with the words “all” and “everything” for example, you get into logical troubles. So be careful about that. It is not correct to say that God can do everything. God CANNOT do everything. What God CAN do, at most, is everything that is POSSIBLE to do. Not even God can do the impossible.

While we are on this subject I should point out that the spiritual world and the physical world are both part of the Universe, and they both have laws (I have discovered something interesting about the nature of the two, but I won’t get into it here). There are spiritual laws. For example, the committing of an evil in the spiritual world demands justice (ultimately, there must be justice, a price paid for wrongs committed). And God is a God of Justice, and he must obey, not only the laws of the physical world, but also the laws of the spiritual world. If an evil is committed, a price must be paid for that. Curiously, an innocent party can volunteer to pay the price for a guilty party, and that is what Jesus did. He paid down the price to the point so that man, who could not pay the full price, could pay the rest. He opened the gates of Heaven to men of Good Will who wished to reunite themselves with God by paying down the price to the point where they could pay the remainder.

Christ did not do everything as Martin Luther and his followers would have us believe, Christians must do something for their own salvation, men are not saved by faith, defined as simple belief, but by the PRACTICE of faith, they must PRACTICE their faith to be saved by it, and it is revealed that four things are required for one’s efforts at salvation to be complete: 1) one must obey God’s commandments, 2) pray, 3) do penance for sin, and 4) do good works, that is what it means to practice the Christian faith.

There are some in this forum who argue that Justice itself is evil. And that a Just God is evil for administering Justice. But God has no choice; he must obey the spiritual law of justice. And the laws of the spiritual world ultimately demand Justice. Arguing with the laws of the spiritual world makes as much sense as arguing against the laws of the physical world. When you are falling off a cliff, you can rant and rave against the laws of physics all you want to, but you will still fall.

Louie

2/8/2016 12:12:57 PM Scientific data concludes "no soon return"  

prophetic774
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,738)
Winter Haven, FL
65, joined Feb. 2011


John 3:3: Jesus declares, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the Kingdom of God unless his is **BORN AGAIN**!"John 1:12,13: He gave the right to become children of God--children born not of human descent, **NOR OF A HUMAN DECISION**, or a husband's will, but **BORN OF GOD**!!

John 6:28,29: Then they asked Jesus, "What must we do to do the works God requires?" Jesus answered, "The **WORK OF GOD** is this: to believe in the One He has sent!"

John 6:37,39,44,65: Jesus says, "All that the Father gives to Me **WILL** come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will **NEVER** drive away...And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose **NONE** of all He has given Me, but raise them up at the Last Day....No one can come to Me **UNLESS** the Father who sent Me draws him and I will raise him up at the Last Day!...No one can come to Me **UNLESS** the Father has enabled them!"

John 17:1,2: Jesus prayed, "Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. For you granted Him authority over all people that He might give eternal life to all those **YOU HAVE GIVEN HIM**!"

John 17:9,24: Jesus prayed, "I pray for them, I am not praying for the world, but for **THOSE YOU HAVE GIVEN ME**!"...."Father, I want **THOSE YOU HAVE GIVEN ME** to be with Me where I am!!"

Isaiah 53:5,6: But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all!!

AND SO SALVATION IS 100% FREE BUT HEAVENLY REWARDS ARE 100% EARNED!!:

Ephesians 2:8,9: For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the *GIFT of God—not by works. So that no one can boast. For we are **GOD'S WORKMANSHIP**, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do!

Hebrews 11:1,6: Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see....And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to Him must believe that He exists and that He **REWARDS those who earnestly seek Him!!

Ephesians 6:8: Serve wholeheartedly , as if you were serving the Lord, not men, because you know that the Lord will **REWARD everyone for what ever good he does!.

Revelation 22:12 Jesus says, “Behold I am coming soon! My **REWARD is with Me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done!”

Matthew 16:27: Jesus says, “The Son of Man is going to come in His Father's glory with His angels and THEN He will **REWARD each person according to what he has done!”

2 Corinthians 5:9,10: We make it our goal to please Him... for we must all appear before the Judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

1 Corinthians 3:13-15: His work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives , he will receive his **REWARD. If it is burned up he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.