Revelations 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

I'm guessing your wondering what scientific data I'm speaking of.

well, let's look closely at what John has seen here.
We know the previous verses speak of the 144000 sealed from the tribes of Israel.

then we have this vision John sees, a great multitude, so great that they can't even be numbered.

Does anyone know what the highest number known to man is?
Is there such a number?
Maybe, maybe not, but let's just look at what we numbers we do have.
according to scientific estimates, the total number of humans ever born from Adam and eve, until now, is between 108-125 billion.
now, no doubt that is a great number, and would be a great multitude.
But the fact that man can number it presents a problem.

John saw a multitude that no man could number, it's impossible.
so already, if everyone that had ever lived was counted, John still seen more in the vision.

So to be clear here, in 4-7000 years, there has not been enough people born to be such a great multitude.

let's go deeper.
let's look at the number 250 or 300 billion.
still, a number than man can attain, Count, number if needed..
If it took 4-7000 years to get to the number of 125 billion born, could we safely say it would take another 4-7000 to reach the 250-300 billion mark?
And even then, if the 300 billion mark was reached, it has not surpassed a number no man can number.

let's go deeper
The 300 billion, is counting all of the human race ever born.
but John seen not the whole human race, but those who had washed their robes in the blood of the lamb.
so immediately, we have to assume that 200-250 billion of the 300 billion are not part of john's vision.
why?
Because Jesus said that there were FEW that would enter.
and many that would not enter.

well few of 300 billion may be 50-100 billion, few certainly wouldn't be 250 billion.

so now in the year 9016, we have 300 billion born since the beginning of time, and an estimated 50-100 billion available to be part of john's vision.
50-100 billion is a long ways from innumerable, and this estimated number wouldn't be reached for another 7000 years.
so much for "soon"

Ah, just took a break. Been doing things with the kids and around the house.

The logic is simple math.
John seen an innumerable multitude.
The total of the human race from Adam till now is 108-125 billion. "Numerable"

It took 7000 years to get to number 108-125 billion, so just estimating it would take another 7000 years to reach 216-250 billion "still numerable"

Another 7000 would bring us to 324-375 billion, "still numerable"

It would take another 42000 year to reach 875 billion, and that is "still numerable"

John saw an innumerable multitude, and as it stands, if ALL born from the beginning of time to the year 44016 , not just a few, but if All of the 875 billion ever born, we're saved, that's still not enough to be ALL that John seen..

So for sure, if there was "a coming" to come, if would not be "soon" by any stretch of the imagination.

But I believe there is no other coming, he came as he said he would.
In their lifetime, in their generation, and that multitude John saw, it's everyone that has been saved from then till eternity. Which has no end

He'll come when He comes, maybe sooner, maybe later. The only sure thing is that He will come one day.

She?

You are right loop on "no soon return", the facts are that Jesus returned in judgment on apostate Israel/Judah in 70 AD - there are no more "returns" of Jesus as per the futurist "theologies".

(Rev 7:9 KJV) After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

(Gen 22:17 KJV) That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore....

Both the above are examples of prophetic hyperbole, yet they are describing the "increase" of the seed of Abraham as Christians - the number is ever increasing as there is "no end" of his "government":

(Isa 9:7 KJV) Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Jesus is coming very soon according to the bible and prophecy. when? no one knows but soon could be this year or the next 5 years

Jesus is coming very soon according to the bible and prophecy. when? no one knows but soon could be this year or the next 5 years. what i mean about that, is the time of trouble could start any time which will usher in the final movements based upon revelation and then Jesus comes back and according to prophecy that could be any time

shortly come to pass means nothing to God because all this is on a time table.

A man asked God, "Is it true that a million dollars is penny is like a penny to you?"

"Yes, it's true," God answered.

"And a thousand years is like a second?"

"Yes."

"May I have a penny?"

"Just a second."

..

Then what would be the point of the Jesus or the apostle making those statements...

You make the words of the bible of "none effect" by your tradition of men..

Where does the bible or Jesus say that he will return soon?

*
Have you ever read "The Everlasting Gospel" by William Blake? (1757–1827)

"Both read the Bible day and night,
But thou read’st black where I read white."

Nothing in your verses below says to me that Jesus is coming back soon.

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[]Quote from wayn49:[/][]1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. revelation 1:1-7



20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. revelation 22: 20[/]

OP, every finite number, no matter how large, has a number and can be numbered. Terms like “innumerable” or “no man can count” are traditionally used to emphasize a very large number. If you were counting such a number, it might take a very long time to count, but it can be numbered, if enough time is given for the counting.

Concerning the Church established by Jesus Christ and his Return, we have a number of ancient revelations and prophecies:

1) Catherine Emmerich reveals that after the Angelic Revolt, the angels who lived here on Earth (this Earth was created by God as an inhabitable planet for them, this is their home, and they lived here for a very long time before men were created upon the Earth--the great megaliths found around the Earth today, some under the ocean, were built by them), were ordered by God to leave the Earth, then men were created upon the Earth. The Earth today is a garden of sorts in which the souls of men are being created and tested and divided into two groups: the elect who ultimately belong to God, and the reprobate who ultimately belong to Satan, the fallen Lucifer. It is revealed that when the number of the elect equal the number of the fallen angels, then the time for the trial of man upon the Earth will end, and then the reprobate of men and angels will be publicly judged and thrown into the Lake of Fire (not to be confused with Hell) where they will suffer the second death, the death of the spirit. Then Hell itself, which is a place of torment where the souls of the damned are held until the last Judgment, will be thrown into the Lake of Fire and will be no more. Then the elect of angels who lived here once will return to live here on Earth again, for this is their home. And the elect of men will leave the Earth and go to live in Heaven, which is the place where God the Father has his throne set up and where he has prepared a place for them.

2) And then we have the prophecy of Adam (given to Adam by God the Father, shortly after the creation of Adam). After Adam and Eve fell from grace and were driven from the Garden, they repented of having disobeyed God, doing severe penance, fasting to the point of death, and begging God to forgive them. Seeing their sincerity, God forgave them and promised to later send his Word to redeem them and their righteous descendants. God at that time revealed that seven thousand years were allotted for him and his descendants to live and walk upon the Earth, and that at the end of the six thousand, his Word would return to establish a Millennial Sabbath. I have astronomically pinpointed the dates of Adam from an obscure text in an ancient non-Biblical Scripture (which predates the Bible). And adding six thousand years to this date, which points to the date of the Return of Christ, gives 2055 as the approximate date. It is approximate only because God may postpone the date for a few years.

3) And then we have the prophecy from the Jewish tradition, which was well known at the time of Christ, that foretells that the Church of the Messiah will be allotted 40 years from the time of the ascension of the Messiah to evangelize the world before his return. Christ and his apostles knew this prophecy, which is why he was telling his hearers that he would return soon, even within the lifetime of some of those in his hearing, and which is why is apostles were of the opinion that it would be soon. The meaning of the prophecy was hidden, however, we now know that the time allotted is 40 Jubilee years, which is 2000 years. I have astronomically pinpointed the dates of Christ, and he was crucified in the spring of 27AD, which implies that the time allotted to the Church to evangelize the nations will end in or about 2017AD (the Church age is due to end in about 2027AD, and he will return not long afterwards. This is, again, approximate for God may postpone it for a little while. And we know at this point that he will. The postponement of the Great Chastisement delay his coming a few years.

4) This sequence of events is foretold of the current period: The Great Chastisement and its Third World War has now been shortened by the postponements to about two years. Then follows 30 to 34 years of world peace. And this is followed by the End Time and the rise of the Antichrist and his Fourth World War and Reign of Terror. The End Time is revealed to last 10 years, with the Antichrist rising to power in the last 7, and his reign of Terror 3.5 years (the last half of this period). So if the period of world peace begins sometime in 2017, then the approximate return of Christ from this data would be 2017 + 30 + 10 = 2057, which is only about three years beyond the date foretold by the prophecy of Adam.

All this is approximate because of possible postponements, but the point here is that time is now growing short. His return is not imminent but it is NOT far distant. The younger generations living now will live to see his Return, if they are lucky enough to survive the world wars that are coming. The Third World War is now almost upon us, it is imminent.

Louie

well, it's nice to see you come back Louie.
But on topic, "and after this I saw a great multitude that no man could number"
What happened to God says what he means and means what he says louie?
Is that just something you say when it fits what you believe?

There is no “largest” number.

Louie

OP, you say: “Using that, if it has taken apr. 7000 years to get to apr.
125 billion born, it would take apr. Another 7000 years to reach the 250 billion mark.
see how easy that is?”

No, everything else being equal, the population does not increase linearly, but exponentially--it grows faster and faster as time goes on. It grows exponentially as time goes on because there are more and more people procreating as time goes on.

Louie

Jesus is a real man with nailed scared hands and feet and yes he is in the spirit and will come as king of kings and lord of lords but when he does he is coming as lightning that flashes from the east to the west and all the dead in Christ will arise and meet him in the air and then the living in Christ will meet him in the air not on this earth. where? they are taken to heaven for the 1000 year reign . when? only God knows

what i mean is this

24 Now Thomas (also known as Didymus[a]), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”

But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”

26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

He still has scars? Blemishes?
Spots?