General Discussion

2/28/2007 4:38:05 PM	General Discussion
stormbay Tasmania Australia age: 62	Jesus was either a myth, or a bloke chosen as the next re incarnated Buddhist master and went to Kashmir in his teens to study Buddhism. Returning in his mid 20's where he preached the tenements of the thousands of years old philosophy, called Buddhism. Which taught god is within, love and care for the other life forms on the planet. When the authorities tried to string him up, the guards were bribed and he was cut down earlier than most crucified, was healed and returned to Kashmir with his women, where he lived out his life and is buried there. Hence the stories became popular and those stories were changed to suit the churches of the time because it was becoming a cult, just like Trekies are now. Sounds better than the other rubbish people grovel in fear, to fantasy stories. Plus there's more verifiable evidence to support it than the false Christianity delusion.
3/17/2007 12:15:28 PM	General Discussion
newspring Madison, SD age: 53	Hi! Jesus Christ is the son of the one true living God who came to earth in the form of a baby, grew up honoring God and learning all He could to obey God, who, after being baptized with the Holy Spirit, went about doing good and healing all that were oppressed of the devil. Then after 31/2 years of ministry, he was crucified, died, and was buried and on the third day God did a mighty work and raised Him from the dead. The good news is that Jesus died, went to hell and paid the price for all of the worlds sins but because of living a sinless life, hell, death and the grave could not hold Him. And I have received Him as my personal Lord and Saviour, and He has become to me my hope, my life, and the light of my life. He came to show us God's unconditional love toward's us and to pay the price for sin, so that we could escape the penalty of sin and hell by accepting God's free gift to us - eternal life through Jesus Christ. Confess with your mouth Jesus as your personal saviour and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead and you shall be saved.
3/18/2007 9:58:57 AM	General Discussion
whitehawk Eugene, OR age: 53	prove it
3/18/2007 12:14:11 PM	General Discussion
aurelian Boerne, TX age: 27	All right, I'll try to do just that - prove it. First off, the oldest extrabiblical evidence speaking of Jesus is much older than 300 CE as was claimed several postings ago. The famous Jewish historian, Josephus wrote some time between 70 and 100 CE: "Now, there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works—a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ; (64) and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day." Josephus, Flavius, The Works of Josephus, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1997. Josephus is the best historian of the period of the early Roman rule in Palestine, and most of the historical information we have of the era rests heavily on his scholership. Pliny, a prominent Roman historian during the reign of Trajan (98-117 CE) wrote to the Emperor speaking of Jesus and his followers who were already prominent enough among the poor and weak to be enough of a concern to the powers that be that they were considered a threat to the status quo. And these are but a mere sampling of the overwhelming historical evidence that speaks of Jesus as a historical figure that lived and died sometime during the first century CE. Now for the evidence of him being more than a mere man. Most, who accept Jesus as a historical person (denying that is about as stupid as denying the Holocaust) speak of him being, as a posting above stated, a great moral teacher. And that i too believe. But I don't believe he was just that. Really one logically can't. To have said the things he said, and made the kind of claims he made that he was God, he is either telling the truth, is as mad as the man who calls himself a poached egg, or is a lier. And we know a lier or a madman are not good moral teachers. So, take your pick, God, liar, or lunatic, but don't give me any of this hogwash about a "great moral teacher but not God" And then there's the resurection. Now we all know that if someone rose from the dead, that would indeed be a miracle. No mere man can do that. Jesus was attested to have risen from the dead by over 300 witnesses, most of whom suffered martyrdom rather than deny the truth of what they had seen. Now it is a well attested psychological fact that people don't suffer and die for what they know to be a fairy tale, and yet most of these men did suffer and die. What other explaination is there than that they really saw what they claimed to have seen? And yes, they did claim to have seen the resurrection. We have fragments of the New Testament books that make those claims dating back to less than 50 years after their assumed date of writing - far more, better, and closer to the date of writing than we have for any work of ancient literature - Homer, Virgil, Ovid, or any of the others. And nobody questions whether we have essentialy the original Aenid or not. It is only logical to assume we have essentialy the original writings of the New Testament.
3/18/2007 8:52:45 PM	General Discussion
newspring Madison, SD age: 53	Wow, Aurelian, what an answer! So "prove it"? I know of the life experience I had at age 22 and that I was scared, destitute, in bondage to drugs, cigarettes, and so paranoid that I could barely go outside of my house. One night, out in the boonies, I smelled smoke and thought my house was on fire. Being high at the time, I went outside to walk around the house and I was so scared, I could hardly put one foot in front of the other. In the house were my 4 yr old and 6 mo. old daughters. If I had found fire anywhere, I believe I would have been so paralyzed with fear, I could have done nothing. No fire, I somehow managed to get into the house, went to bed, and the whole horror of that caused me to cry out to God the next day and ask Jesus into my heart to be my saviour. When I got up off my knees, I felt like a ton of weight had been lifted off of me, I was free of drugs, cigarettes, fear and with a knowing that God is alive and waiting for each and every persons cry, that all might be saved. Without Jesus, where would I be now? Romans 10: 9-10 says if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that He was raised from the dead you shall be saved, for with the heart man (or woman) believes unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made resulting in salvation. John 3:3 says you must be born again or you will not go to heaven. If we could get to heaven by being good enough, then certainly Jesus would not have had to die in our place. That is where the great love of God is manifest, in that He sent His own Son to die for us when we were dead in our own trespasses and sin. And Jesus was so awesome to be obedient to die for us as His joy set before Him was to see us recieve our salvation. I cannot prove to you, I can only testify to what I know. My word to you is disprove it.
3/19/2007 1:27:26 AM	General Discussion
jewelz5 Monteagle, TN age: 53	"Jesus is a mythical figure in the tradition of pagan mythology and almost nothing in all of ancient literature would lead one to believe otherwise. Anyone wanting to believe Jesus lived and walked as a real live human being must do so despite the evidence, not because of it." "The gospel story is an artificial, non-historical work. It has been fabricated from source materials that can be identified and traced to their incorporation into the gospels. There is not a particle of hard evidence that 'Jesus of Nazareth' ever existed. Contrary to popular belief, there was no single man at the genesis of Christianity but many characters rolled into one, the majority of whom were personifications of the ubiquitous solar myth, whose exploits were well known, as reflected by such popular deities as Mithra, Heracles/Hercules, Dionysus and many others throughout the Roman Empire and beyond. The story of Jesus as portrayed in the Gospels is revealed to be nearly identical in detail to that of the earlier savior-gods Krishna and Horus, who for millennia preceding Christianity held great favor with the people in much the same way as Jesus does today. Thus, the Jesus character is not unique or original, not "divine revelation." These redeemer tales are similar not because they reflect the actual exploits of a variety of men who did and said the identical things, but because they are representations of the same extremely ancient body of knowledge that revolved around the celestial bodies and natural forces. The result of this mythmaking has been The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold. Christianity and the story of Jesus Christ were created by members of various secret societies, mystery schools and religions in order to unify the Roman Empire under one state religion. In making such a fabrication, this multinational cabal drew upon a multitude of myths and rituals that already existed long before the Christian era, and reworked them for centuries into the story and religion passed down today. the real foundation of Christianity appears nothing like the image provided by the clergy and mainstream authorities. Indeed, far more rosy and cheerful than the reality is the picture painted by the vested interests as to the origins of the Christian religion: To wit, a miracle-making founder and pious, inspired apostles who faithfully and infallibly recorded his words and deeds shortly after his advent, and then went about promulgating the faith with great gusto and success in "saving souls." Contrary to this popular delusion, the reality is that, in addition to the enormous amount of bloodshed which accompanies its foundation, Christianity's history is rife with forgery and fraud. So rampant is this treachery and chicanery that any serious researcher must immediately begin to wonder about the story itself. In truth, the Christian tale has always been as difficult to swallow as the myths and fables of other cultures; yet countless people have been able to overlook the rational mind and to willingly believe it, even though they may equally as easily dismiss the nearly identical stories of these other cultures.... There is no evidence for the historicity of the Christian founder, that the earliest Christian proponents were as a whole either utterly credulous or astoundingly deceitful, and that said "defenders of the faith" were compelled under incessant charges of fraud to admit that Christianity was a rehash of older religions. It has also been demonstrated that the world into which Christianity was born was filled with assorted gods and goddesses, as opposed to a monotheistic vacuum. In fact, in their fabulous exploits and wondrous powers many of these gods and goddesses are virtually the same as the Christ character, as attested to by the Christian apologists themselves. In further inspecting this issue we discover that "Jesus Christ" is in fact a compilation of these various gods, who were worshipped and whose dramas were regularly played out by ancient people long before the Christian era....
3/19/2007 1:47:57 AM	General Discussion
jewelz5 Monteagle, TN age: 53	Horus of Egypt.."Egypt, the primeval seat of learning, was the high seat of Sun adoration. The Sphinx, with the face to the east, represents Harmmachus, young Horus, or the rising Sun. The orb is Osiris, the ruling god of day. In its descent it is the dying deity, going below to the land of Shades; but only to be resurrected as the victorious Horus, piercing the head of the dragon of darkness." James Bonwick, Irish Druids & Old Irish Religions The Egyptian sun god Horus, who predated the Christ character by thousands of years, shares the following in common with Jesus: Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Meri on December 25th in a cave/manger with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men. His earthly father was named "Seb" "Joseph". Seb is also known as "Geb": "As Horus the Elder he...was believed to be the son of Geb and Nut." Lewis Spence, Ancient Egyptian Myths and Legends, 84. He was of royal descent. At age 12, he was a child teacher in the Temple, and at 30, he was baptized, having disappeared for 18 years. Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus or Iarutana (Jordan) by "Anup the Baptizer" "John the Baptist", who was decapitated. He had 12 disciples, two of whom were his "witnesses" and were named "Anup" and "Aan" the two "Johns". He performed miracles, exorcised demons and raised El-Azarus "El-Osiris", from the dead. Horus walked on water. His personal epithet was "Iusa," the "ever-becoming son" of "Ptah," the "Father." He was thus called "Holy Child." He delivered a "Sermon on the Mount" and his followers recounted the "Sayings of Iusa." Horus was transfigured on the Mount. He was crucified between two thieves, buried for three days in a tomb, and resurrected. He was also the "Way, the Truth, the Light," "Messiah," "God's Anointed Son," the "Son of Man," the "Good Shepherd," the "Lamb of God," the "Word made flesh," the "Word of Truth," etc. He was "the Fisher" and was associated with the Fish "Ichthys", Lamb and Lion. He came to fulfill the Law. Horus was called "the KRST," or "Anointed One." Like Jesus, "Horus was supposed to reign one thousand years." Furthermore, inscribed about 3,500 years ago on the walls of the Temple at Luxor were images of the Annunciation, Immaculate Conception, Birth and Adoration of Horus, with Thoth announcing to the Virgin Isis that she will conceive Horus; with Kneph, the "Holy Ghost," impregnating the virgin; and with the infant being attended by three kings, or magi, bearing gifts. In addition, in the catacombs at Rome are pictures of the baby Horus being held by the virgin mother Isis--the original "Madonna and Child."
3/19/2007 4:50:51 AM	General Discussion
aurelian Boerne, TX age: 27	Regarding the historicity of Jesus, I think I have already proved that with my references to Josephus and Pliny (two of the most respected historians of the time). Regarding the Osirus/Horus myth being the precursor of the story of Jesus - check out http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/osy.html It goes into detail about the myriad distortions and outright fabrications of those who claim the story of Jesus is nothing but a revamping of the old Osirus/Horus myth.
3/19/2007 11:51:33 AM	General Discussion
hunzee Cochiti Lake, NM age: 76	First: aurelian, are you a distant relative, offspring, descendant of Aurelian, the Roman emperor in the late 3rd century? Not too many people in this country have ever heard of Aurelian. Second: I am so glad you cited the famous Jewish historian, Josephus who wrote some time between 70 and 100 CE and Pliny, a prominent Roman historian during the reign of Trajan (98-117 CE). You were very helpful. It were some very intelligent Jews who figured out how to control the undisciplined masses some 5-6000 years ago by inventing, what I call, the Unigod. It was a hell lot easier to control a unigod and tell him (not her or it) what he should tell the people to keep them in check rather than trying to control a bunch of gods, who behaved all like us humans, who were fighting each other like we do, to make them control their unwieldy human images/counter parts. And then it were the smart Romans (just before their power and control were about to go into oblivion) who again dug up and improved the Jewish invention to such perfection that they, or rather their descendants (the Italians) are still controlling almost 1/4 of the world population via the Catholic Church and their Christian and Islamic offsprings. What you may not know (at least you did not mention anything) is the fact that practically NOTHING was said or written in the 2. And 3. century about Jesus and his followers. Again, a matter of fact, the so-called Christian church was an underground church (literally underground because the followers (by now mostly Romans) were hunted by the Romans so they lived mostly in catacombs=underground passageways.) It wasn't until the beginning of the 4. century when the Roman emperor Constantine the Great (who, by the way, had his residence in my home town in Germany around 306-337 AD) converted the Romans to the catholic church and during that transition a lot of Roman soldiers and many others got killed. Some of those soldiers became so-called martyrs whose bones are still today in one of the many beautiful churches of my home town. When I say Italians, I am referring to the fact that after the Romans were defeated by the Germanic tribes in the 5 century, all the popes were Italians until very recently, and ironically a German rather than a Roman/Italian is today‘s pope. Talking about facts: One other fact is that the Roman Catholic church is one of, if not, the biggest business in the world. They may not even know themselves, down to the penny, the size of their assets since they own real estate all over the world and bank accounts in practically all countries, except where there is nothing to be had.
3/19/2007 12:32:57 PM	General Discussion
wolfy9459 Dayton, OH age: 45	First off you can not "prov" that Jesus was the son of god until you "prov" god is real. I know the bible says god is real. So that "proves" everything. So just because it is written some place makes it real. LMAO It is only real if you believe it is. Just like the buggy man, santa clause, and the easter bunny. Kenny
3/19/2007 2:08:39 PM	General Discussion
newspring Madison, SD age: 53	1 Corinthians 3:18 Let no person deceive himself. If anyone among you supposes that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool (let him discard his worldly discernment and recognize himself as dull, stupid, and foolish, without true learning and scholarship), that he may become (really) wise. 19: For this world's wisdom is foolishness (absurdity and stupidity) with God, for it is written, He lays hold of the wise in their (own craftiness; 20: And again, The Lord knows the thoughts and reasonings of the (humanly) wise and recognizes how futile they are. Also, 2Co. 4:4 For the god of this world (satan) has blinded the unbelievers minds (that they should not discern the truth) preventing them from seeing the illuminating light of the gospel of the glory of Christ (the Messiah), Who is the image and likeness of God. 2Co.4:3 But even if our gospel (the glad tidings) also be hidden (obscured and covered up with a veil that hinders the knowledge of God), it is hidden (only)to those who are perishing and obscured (only) to those who are spiritually dying and veiled (only) to those who are lost. We can argue and spit cotton and turn blue in the face, but the "proof of the pudding is in the eating". God looks on the heart of man and the only way to find out if He is real and true and alive is to call on Him and realize we need a saviour and receive Jesus. Then immerse yourself in the Bible and watch it come alive.
3/19/2007 3:36:20 PM	General Discussion
aurelian Boerne, TX age: 27	No, to the best of my knowledge I am no relative of the emperor Aurelian - nor do I consider him a role model. I picked the name because it was obscure (probably no one else had it) and I kind of liked the way it sounded. Now, concerning Wolfy's post - I have already posted elsewhere (on the "who created God" thread) what I believe to be strong proofs of the existance of God so I won't go back over them now. Hunzee, I have no problem with either Jews or Catholics - even though I am neither. Nor do I have a problem with Italians although I am not an Italian. And no, sorry, I don't subscribe to wild conspiracy theories linking either the Vatican or the Jews to anything that goes wrong in the world. I know there has been a rather prominent world leader in the last 100 years that believed such things, but I consider his philosophy (Nazism) abhorent as I think even most atheists do. Christians as the greatest persecutors and tyrants? Hardly. The atheists Stalin, Mao, and Hitler killed far more people in about 50 years than all of even the most evil rulers that claimed to espouse christianiy killed in the almost 2000 years before them. Have Christians done monstrous and evil things, even in the name of God. Definately. But on the whole, Christianity (and Judaism) have served much more as a brake on violent human nature than a spur. Just look what monsters appeared when it was no longer there to restrain. And really, without some sort of eternal standard, doesn't all this talk about "good" and "evil" become meaningless? I mean, if we're all just cohering blobs of chemicals, what's the big deal about converting some of those blobs we don't happen to like into soft soap? Now for some other questions. If we believe the old Marxist line that religion exists only as the opiate of the people, invented by power-hungry leaders to keep the masses controlled, then why would Christianity survive and even thrive while its adherants were being viciously persecuted? This century has seen literally millions of Christians murdered for their faith - more than all previous centuries combined, and yet in those very areas it has often caught on and grown exponentially. Concerning the idea that monotheism was created by the Jews to control people - almost all anthropologists and mythologists today agree with Wilhelm Schmidt (whose works have been puffed by none other than Joseph Campbell as the author of the greatest work on the history of the sacred)that monotheism predated polytheism. If it predated polytheism, it is really hard to see it being invented to control the polytheists - it wasn't - because it was already there. The theory that says monotheism was nothing more than a projection of monarchy invented to control the masses is known as Tylor's law and was proven wrong about 100 years ago.
3/19/2007 9:20:42 PM	General Discussion
wolfy9459 Dayton, OH age: 45	Aurelian your proof only provs god to you not me. Kenny
3/19/2007 9:40:11 PM	General Discussion
hunzee Cochiti Lake, NM age: 76	Aurelian, there is no point in continuing my discussion with you, since you seem to be as drugged, blinded as some 2 billion other “Christians and Muslims“. I just hope that you’ll sleep as well in fifty years with your god etc., as I sleep without god, devil, Jesus and whoever else gives you peace, now.
3/19/2007 9:57:12 PM	General Discussion
ol_hillbilly Lowry City, MO age: 47	Good thing I'm 'polyunsaturated'. lol

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