Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?

3/24/2012 11:12:33 AM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
jbck Springdale, AR 62, joined Aug. 2007	By congressional reckoning, OBamacare was supposed to cost just $900 or so billion over 10 years. But that was based on manipulating the data when you take into account that the first 4 years had little or no cost. When the cost of enactment over a real full 10 years is taken into account the projected cost becomes $1.76 trillion. Predictions indicate that will increase by at least $250 billion every year thereafter for ever and ever. Cost effective and a money saver it isn't. Next Monday the Supreme Court will begin hearing oral arguments at 10:00 a.m. Not only Obmacare, but the entire Commerce Clause will be brought into question. Can the government compel a private citizen under threat of federal penalties to enter into private conracts with other private entities? If so, where does it stop? Will they make us all buy Chevy Volts next? Then comes the question of whether the commerce clause itself is constitutional. If the court upholds Obamacare and the commerce clause it effectively means that the commerce clause gives the government unlimited power to regulate what it's citizens do in their personal lives. I wonder if the idea of limited government power will become a factor in the court's decision? If Obamacare is upheld it will forever change the nature of American society. If upheld it will give the government absolute control over anything it cares to address. It will give the government unlimited power over us. The basic rights of citizens and their right to a civil society will be forever destroyed. Two thirds of the American people oppose Obamacare and especially it's individual mandate on political and moral grounds. The fact that we are already $16 trillion in debt and this will add significantly more cannot be ignored. The court's decision will be one of the most important in our nation's history. Before Queenie blathers on about the "rich" and "owing" each other basic stuff, and "cpmpassion" remember the point. It is about self determination and personal freedom vs abosolute power and control of everything by government. Which way do you predict it will it go? Meet singles at DateHookup.dating, we're 100% free! Join now!
3/24/2012 12:05:38 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
pelham12345 Bronx, NY 35, joined Dec. 2011	Honestly... It should be no shock that it will cost double in first 10y and will probably grow exponentially after that.. If you thought giving ~50million people something for nothing wasnt going to cost a ton of money I got a bridge to sell you.. And while I don't know how the rulibg will go, I DO think the individual mandate will get tossed.. Which pretty much cripples the whole thing... Also the fact that obama has handed out numorous exemptions to companys from the law proves its flawed, i'm not sure if that can be used as direct evidence but it will surely be mentioned in arguements.
3/24/2012 12:31:04 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
jbck Springdale, AR 62, joined Aug. 2007	Good point, now we have a law that a bureuacrat can apply selectively on a bureuacratic whim. So much for equal protection!
3/24/2012 2:49:32 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
jrbogie1949 Ventura, CA 68, joined Mar. 2009	can't know the first answer for quite some time. should know the second answer sometime in june.
3/24/2012 2:59:22 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
jbck Springdale, AR 62, joined Aug. 2007	Please tell me of one, just one government program that came in at the cost predicted. Just one would be fine. Fact is most cost hundreds of times predictions. To think that this one is going to do anything differently is simply silly.
3/26/2012 3:19:15 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
jokethem Kansas City, KS 63, joined Feb. 2012	Quote from jbck: Please tell me of one, just one government program that came in at the cost predicted. Just one would be fine. Fact is most cost hundreds of times predictions. To think that this one is going to do anything differently is simply silly. I'm still thinking.
3/26/2012 4:49:44 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
pelham12345 Bronx, NY 35, joined Dec. 2011	Quote from jbck: Please tell me of one, just one government program that came in at the cost predicted. Just one would be fine. Fact is most cost hundreds of times predictions. To think that this one is going to do anything differently is simply silly. Though horribly mismanaged (big surprise), cash-for-clunkers was below the mark so they pushed through some cars just to spend the money.
3/26/2012 10:19:43 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
jbck Springdale, AR 62, joined Aug. 2007	The plot thickens. Regardless of what my wonderful benevolent government tells me, I refuse to buy a Chevy Volt or anything else they think I should buy, including health insurance. I stand on the principle that I have the right to spend what I have earned the way I see fit. What I do with the fruits of my labor is entirely up to me. I won't give the government control over what I choose to buy. They can suck my butt or something more tasty...unless it is a f*g so fondly embraced in which case there will be another shooting. I'll spend my tiny little bit of wealth the way I choose, thanks!
3/26/2012 11:45:55 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
gdragn Lake Worth, FL 55, joined Jul. 2011	this is how the dems step on their dk.....instead of health care reform which requires reforming the insurance and pharmaceutical industry abuses rather than participatory mandates, obama should have fulfilled his duty as #1 cop (the executive branch ENFORCES the laws)to prosecute and punish the perpetrators of massive multiple policyholder securities insurance fraud and stuck to the creative financial rebuilding as exemplified by the $6 billion rebuild loan to chrysler which has since been paid back at 17%.. but no, he has to make his mark as the first president to solve healthcare (give me a break, this can't be done as long as health abusers are treated as equally as health promoters) [Edited 3/26/2012 11:47:05 PM ]
3/27/2012 6:35:13 AM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
jbck Springdale, AR 62, joined Aug. 2007	Growing and using your own wheat didn't turn the trick. Calling it a tax when congress expressly stated it was not seems doomed as well. It appears it will be heard. Awesome!
3/27/2012 5:55:34 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
jbck Springdale, AR 62, joined Aug. 2007	Today one of the liberal justices asks about (sic) "...is compelling a person from cradle to grave to buy something reaching a bit too far? Uh-oh! If they lose even one of the liberal Justices Obama Care is toast!
3/28/2012 1:06:00 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
drew_5050 Middletown, OH 34, joined Oct. 2011	We could do alot of things to make healthcare more affordable. Let people buy across state lines. Tax free savings accounts etc.... My business insurance and car insurance is from different states and its cheap and theyre quality policy's. Healthcare could work the same way. Or we could go single payer. Make everyone pay for a public policy through taxes. Either way healthcare costs everyone. If you have insurance youre already paying for the uninsured via higher premiums. If the uninsured had to pay extra taxes into the system to be covered my medicaid or medicare I would imagine it would reduce costs for the privately insured.....But wait.....that wouldn't be good for insurance companies. hell they wrote obamacare. Sometimes we make problems worse than what they are.
3/28/2012 1:40:49 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
jokethem Kansas City, KS 63, joined Feb. 2012	yes, they call this insurance reform. Bull crap. They say this is for the 20% that does not have insurance> Bull crap. It is all about government control. If insurance is that fricking bad then why not regulate it like the government loves to do. Put together a "blue ribbon" panel to find and fix the issues. If it is about the 20% that do not or better say cannot afford insurance then create a health plan for them. Just leave me the f**k alone. Leave my money alone, leave my insurance alone, leave me along.
3/28/2012 6:35:14 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
wasaqueen Seymour, IN 71, joined Feb. 2012	Quote from jokethem: yes, they call this insurance reform. Bull crap. They say this is for the 20% that does not have insurance> Bull crap. It is all about government control. If insurance is that fricking bad then why not regulate it like the government loves to do. Put together a "blue ribbon" panel to find and fix the issues. If it is about the 20% that do not or better say cannot afford insurance then create a health plan for them. Just leave me the f**k alone. Leave my money alone, leave my insurance alone, leave me along. The insurance companies are still in control not the government. All the government is saying by the mandate is that those running to the emergency room, instead of buying insurance, and expecting the rest of people pay for it because of increased insurance costs, are not going to get off free anymore. Why is that so hard to understand? If everyone uses the medical system, why shouldn't all who are able help pay for it?
3/28/2012 7:58:32 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
jbck Springdale, AR 62, joined Aug. 2007	To quote: "The insurance companies are still in control not the government..." Damn Queenie, thats absolutely excellent! That is as it should be. Insurance companies are businesses. The government should not and never should control business. Every time they do they make a mess of things and it costs everyone more, stiffles employment, restricts business, creates debt and monetary crisis, and generally screws everything up. The only solution that will ever work is to get government the hell out of business, and out of our personal lives. Governement needs to be both transparent and invisible unitl some other nation attacks us on American soil. Period.
3/28/2012 8:51:40 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
kimmy63 Fort Smith, AR 54, joined Sep. 2009	Quote from jbck: To quote: "The insurance companies are still in control not the government..." Damn Queenie, thats absolutely excellent! That is as it should be. Insurance companies are businesses. The government should not and never should control business. Every time they do they make a mess of things and it costs everyone more, stiffles employment, restricts business, creates debt and monetary crisis, and generally screws everything up. The only solution that will ever work is to get government the hell out of business, and out of our personal lives. Governement needs to be both transparent and invisible unitl some other nation attacks us on American soil. Period. I agree
3/28/2012 8:55:54 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
jokethem Kansas City, KS 63, joined Feb. 2012	Quote from wasaqueen: The insurance companies are still in control not the government. All the government is saying by the mandate is that those running to the emergency room, instead of buying insurance, and expecting the rest of people pay for it because of increased insurance costs, are not going to get off free anymore. Why is that so hard to understand? If everyone uses the medical system, why shouldn't all who are able help pay for it? Well my dear, obama is telling me I have to pay for insuring these 20% through taxes. So what is the difference. I would rather pay for all the people who rely on the emergency through my insurnce then then to be forced by the government. At least with the insurence company, I can shop around for the best deal I can get. Then on top all that, each group of people he gives exceptions to just will cost me even more. Maybe Im wrong but I bet, if obama was taking your hard earned money you would not think so generous.
3/28/2012 9:04:32 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
jbck Springdale, AR 62, joined Aug. 2007	Exactly. I have observed that people that don't contribute but merely take from others have no appreciation of what it takes to create the wealth they benefit so handsomely from. If they had a stake like having to pay along with their benefactors they might have a little more appreciation of what goes into their gravy train.
4/5/2012 9:09:30 AM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
jbck Springdale, AR 62, joined Aug. 2007	I have experienced a solution and better option than Obamacare. While on vacation just 60 or so miles north of Queenie's Seymour, Indiana near Indianapolis I started an ear infection. Not having a personal physician in the area I went to Walgreens. They have something called a "take care clinic" in many of the stores here. For $20 I saw a nurse practitioner and was in and out with an $8 prescription and pain free and on the way to being completely cured in a short time. I guess I could have gone to the ER in one of the local hospitals and gotten similar treatment and a cure for several hundred dollars. If I was an illegal alien that's probably what I would have done. I took the $28 option instead of what would probably cost several hundred under Obamacare. Go Walgreens! You Rock!!!! 1-866-take-care!
4/13/2012 12:48:37 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
bbaker88 Sutton, NE 24, joined Apr. 2012	Its unconstitutional why should we all have to have it.... makes no sense we the people have rights.
4/13/2012 7:40:11 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
jokethem Kansas City, KS 63, joined Feb. 2012	well bb, thank you for your young and uninformed opinion. A right? When you find the Right of Health Insurance in the Constitution, The Bill of Right, The Federist Papers or a Law you let us know. OK? Besides EVERYBODY can go to the emergency room for a low cost or more likely FREE.
4/14/2012 11:45:13 AM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
pelham12345 Bronx, NY 35, joined Dec. 2011	Joke, she was clearly referring to rights as in freedom.. And not having the government force us to purchase a product we may not want. Oh and about the ER.. You will get a huge bill if you give them your real name and SS... [Edited 4/14/2012 11:46:12 AM ]
4/14/2012 5:29:29 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
jbck Springdale, AR 62, joined Aug. 2007	Quote from bbaker88: Its unconstitutional why should we all have to have it.... makes no sense we the people have rights. You are exactly correct. It is an intrusion on your rights. It is not an extra one. Anytime the government controls the rights they are no longer yours, but theirs. Very astute, my dear. Thanks for realizing the truth of it. Gives me renewed faith in our youth!
4/14/2012 5:45:50 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
jokethem Kansas City, KS 63, joined Feb. 2012	Quote from pelham12345: Joke, she was clearly referring to rights as in freedom.. And not having the government force us to purchase a product we may not want. Oh and about the ER.. You will get a huge bill if you give them your real name and SS... Ok, I guess I read it wrong. Normal. Sorry bb.
4/15/2012 10:51:51 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
mightyquin Coppell, TX 37, joined Apr. 2012	Obamacare is UNconstitutional. Thats basically been proven so going to avoid that agruement. But I do have a concern. If this bill, which was dropped on Congress lap, all 9000 pages and given 2 days to review before signing, goes into effect. Will there be a minimum wage increase? Or cost of living increase given by companies. HMMMMM lemme think, nope. So, the people that can't afford it will recieve government supplimented insurance. And people that can will be out more money, along with companies. Health insurance has already seen an increase in premiums. Guess what will happen if this passes. Major increases. Back in the 80s big tabbacco ran the govenrment (had the most lobbyests) Now in medical industry (phizer, johnson & johnson, etc) Why these you may ask and not health insurance?? Simple, doctors are perscribing pills like its candy. Got the sniffles take these, stomach ache take this, their writeing scripts like crazy. Who benefits? Phamisidical. What really bugs me though on a personal level. I haven't been to the doctor, ER, dentist in 14 years. I did go to the eye doctor and paid cash straight up. Under Obamacare I would have to pay even though I'd never go. Sure I run the risk of possibly needing an ER visit. But I also keep a $3000 nest egg for emergancies. True this may not cover it, BUT look at some other government run health care. (I'll let you do the research on this one) It's worthless. Oh and another personal side note. I used to live in Canada and I have a medical condition that required me to have a certain drug in order for me to grow as a child. Guess what..... Canada healthcare would NOT supply the drug. My mom sent me to live with my father in the states just so I could grow. Obamacare is just wrong on so many levels. But then again this president also said the constitition was an imperfect document. Well gee he's done a pretty good job at shredding it to bits. But thats another subject Sorry about my spelling, grammer and whatever else. But remember, its a forum, NOT my thesis for my masters degree in political science
4/16/2012 1:25:28 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
bbaker88 Sutton, NE 24, joined Apr. 2012	thanks pel and jbck for agreeing ik this because im not a self centered brat like most kids now days i have had to work for everythin ik my rights and Obama needs to be out of office cuz he is also sayin out constitution goes for the ppl tht are here illegally tht r takin our jobs n our home and to the fact of tht Obama wants ppl to adopt kids from other countries he needs to think bout all the kids we have here and the fact of it is he has put us more in debt by give other countries money and aid when they never helped us or ever will
4/18/2012 12:36:31 AM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
wasaqueen Seymour, IN 71, joined Feb. 2012	It is oppitomy of selfish to refuse to buy insurance when you can afford it but still if you have a accident then expect others to pay for it through higher taxes and premiums. I think I would rather blather on about the poor than blather on about how wonderful the rich are and how we should not take away any tax advantages they have. [Edited 4/18/2012 12:37:55 AM ]
4/27/2012 8:48:46 AM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
jbck Springdale, AR 62, joined Aug. 2007	Quote from mightyquin: Obamacare is UNconstitutional. Thats basically been proven so going to avoid that agruement. But I do have a concern. If this bill, which was dropped on Congress lap, all 9000 pages and given 2 days to review before signing, goes into effect. Will there be a minimum wage increase? Or cost of living increase given by companies. HMMMMM lemme think, nope. So, the people that can't afford it will recieve government supplimented insurance. And people that can will be out more money, along with companies. Health insurance has already seen an increase in premiums. Guess what will happen if this passes. Major increases. Back in the 80s big tabbacco ran the govenrment (had the most lobbyests) Now in medical industry (phizer, johnson & johnson, etc) Why these you may ask and not health insurance?? Simple, doctors are perscribing pills like its candy. Got the sniffles take these, stomach ache take this, their writeing scripts like crazy. Who benefits? Phamisidical. What really bugs me though on a personal level. I haven't been to the doctor, ER, dentist in 14 years. I did go to the eye doctor and paid cash straight up. Under Obamacare I would have to pay even though I'd never go. Sure I run the risk of possibly needing an ER visit. But I also keep a $3000 nest egg for emergancies. True this may not cover it, BUT look at some other government run health care. (I'll let you do the research on this one) It's worthless. Oh and another personal side note. I used to live in Canada and I have a medical condition that required me to have a certain drug in order for me to grow as a child. Guess what..... Canada healthcare would NOT supply the drug. My mom sent me to live with my father in the states just so I could grow. Obamacare is just wrong on so many levels. But then again this president also said the constitition was an imperfect document. Well gee he's done a pretty good job at shredding it to bits. But thats another subject Sorry about my spelling, grammer and whatever else. But remember, its a forum, NOT my thesis for my masters degree in political science I agree. There is another fatal flaw in the basic plan regardless of constitutionality. It is supposed to provide vouchers for poor people to buy health insurance. Once bought health insurance has conditions that must be met. How are these poor people supposed to afford it? Helath plans have deductibles. So once they buy insurance they are going to have to pay the deductible before the insurance company pays anything. Those range from around $500 to as much as $5000 depending on the policy. They also have to pay a co-pay. It is usually a fixed amount like $25 or $35 or $50. Depending on the procedure health plans also usually only pay a percentage that ranges from 50-80%. The patient is responsible to pay the remainder. The simple fact is that medical treatment isn't free, even with insurance. I don't know of any plan that pays 100% of costs except maybe for some procedures in military hospitals. Some of that is covered 100% for "covered" things if they go into a military hospital. Some procedures are not covered at all so a soldier would have to get that where they could and pay out of pocket. The simple fact is that the people they intend to add under Obamacare probably don't have gas money or cab fare to get to a hospital or clinic in the first place so they won't have the funds to pay "their" part of the bill anyway. Looks like ER's will continue to serve as primary care providers under Obamacare.
4/27/2012 10:27:53 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
wasaqueen Seymour, IN 71, joined Feb. 2012	There is one thing you all have never taken thought of in your reasoning. Medicaid is paid by taxpayers and if the government gave premiums to people to buy insurance, the insurance companies would be paying for their healthcare because now they pay nothing into medicaid. Everyone would be covered by insurance instead of taxpayers. Millions of people are having to file for bankruptcy because of medical bills. The insurance companies drop them when they get sick or will not cover them to begin with or they cannot afford to buy insurance. And the Emergency room is not free or for a little charge, it is the most expensive medical care there is and everyone else pays more in their insurance costs because of people using emergency rooms for flu and other things that would cost much less if done by a doctor. Your insurance rates go up to pay for all these people that use the emergency room. You are just not wise enough on the subject to realize it. They are trying to get medicare recipient into insurance companies and have been for years. But then the insurance companies can decide not to cover anything they want and we are stuck with it. Once something becomes profitable it stops working as well as it did. A good example is the for profit prisons. Now that they are making a profit on locking people up these profitable prisons have their lobbiests fighting things like making pot legal because we are locking up more people per ca pita for non violent possession than any other country in the world except for china.
4/29/2012 7:26:15 AM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
jbck Springdale, AR 62, joined Aug. 2007	Whoopee do all good and fuzzy warm is the idea that everyone should have something. Regardless, everything is not a protected right nor should it be. Health care is not a "right". Medical care is a service that you pay for like any other including getting a manicure, haircut, having your car fixed, buying a washer or dryer, buying groceries, etc. If you can't afford a service provided by someone that learned a trade and established a business to sell it, too bad. Helath care is a service provided for a price. It is not a right anyone is obligated to provide to anyone for free.
5/2/2012 2:18:26 AM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
wasaqueen Seymour, IN 71, joined Feb. 2012	Quote from jbck: Whoopee do all good and fuzzy warm is the idea that everyone should have something. Regardless, everything is not a protected right nor should it be. Health care is not a "right". Medical care is a service that you pay for like any other including getting a manicure, haircut, having your car fixed, buying a washer or dryer, buying groceries, etc. If you can't afford a service provided by someone that learned a trade and established a business to sell it, too bad. Helath care is a service provided for a price. It is not a right anyone is obligated to provide to anyone for free. You know you selfish a**holes are always complaining about the social contract that America has for those who cannot pay for themselves maybe you should go to a country where you do not have to pay taxes and you do not get all the military benefits that you get. You don't want to pay your taxes because you don't want to support what America, as a country, has decided was the way we wanted our country to be but you have your hand out to take every taxpayer dollar that you can get. What hypocrites. [Edited 5/2/2012 2:19:27 AM ]
5/2/2012 7:42:05 AM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
jokethem Kansas City, KS 63, joined Feb. 2012	woman, I have been in and with people who do not pay taxes because they have NOTHING to pay taxes on or with. This is what I find interesting, people like you telling me to go some place to see something I do not live, yet I have seen far worse them you can dream up. If anyone needs to go anywhere it is you a**holes that need to crawl out of your government protected shell to see just what the world is really like. Asswipe. Go back to your cave. [Edited 5/2/2012 7:45:33 AM ]
5/2/2012 9:52:01 AM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
drew_5050 Middletown, OH 34, joined Oct. 2011	I have a compromise, lets get rid of all govt programs, have a flat tax.....but heres the kicker, have a minimum wage of say....15 an hour. I dont know what it costs to live in other areas but in Ohio to live without any help and on your own and afford to pay some taxes it takes atleast 15 an hour.
5/2/2012 5:23:07 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
wasaqueen Seymour, IN 71, joined Feb. 2012	Quote from jokethem: woman, I have been in and with people who do not pay taxes because they have NOTHING to pay taxes on or with. This is what I find interesting, people like you telling me to go some place to see something I do not live, yet I have seen far worse them you can dream up. If anyone needs to go anywhere it is you a**holes that need to crawl out of your government protected shell to see just what the world is really like. Asswipe. Go back to your cave. Hey asswipe you give up yours then you have the right to say others should not get theirs. You even get paid for a job by the government at the same time you are collecting on your military pension. And it is hard to believe anyone as self centered and selfish as you could think that you also deserve to be in a HEAVEN. You can dish it out but you sure can't take it when someone calls you on your hypocrisy. Just like the WALL STREET BANKS----saying " You 99% need to sacrifice so we can have more". [Edited 5/2/2012 5:24:38 PM ]
5/3/2012 6:44:43 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
jbck Springdale, AR 62, joined Aug. 2007	It is not selfish. It is the reality of being responsible for yourself. The fact that I am not willing to support you, your misfortune, or bad decisions doesn't reflect poorly on me. It reflects poorly on people that think they are owed something regardless of their contribution. If you aren't willing to do the work to plant, tend, and protect the garden, or prepare the meal, or at least do the dishes afterwards, you hae no right to eat it. Nobody owes you anything you don't earn, dear. That is regardless of your "problems". Remember, your problems are yours....not mine. Solve them for yourself and there won't be any problems left. Be part of the solution and forget that anyone will help you just because you are or have problems. Got my own stuff to attend to and I do. You should try to do the same.
5/19/2012 7:44:14 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
try2ku Manakin Sabot, VA 45, joined Jul. 2011	Obama care is the workings of the health care insurance industry - nothing more squeezing more money out of consumers: well during the recession they and the pharmaceutical industry reported 150% to 600% profit margins. The plan touts it's cost effective drug plan would see significant reductions in time truth snow job first clue - well I'm sorry but don't drugs eventually lose hold on patents then becoming well generics. They tout the plan would be better for women now that birth control and other services required -- um.......no one ever thought of sue the industry for 33 yrs of sexual discrimination dopes No you will not be discriminated against a acceptance but there will be no caps on how much more they can charge you for having a pre-existing medical condition. Now every american will have access to health care BS ........Um several years ago had the top rate insurance got into accident and they have agents that there job is to deny or deter payment yet Obama care doesn't take care to eliminate this issue. It's BS all BS honest do you know some of the drugs on the tier program discovered something ask the pharmacist how much without insurance sometimes some drugs especially generics cost less then what your paying on the tier program ---- don't forget Obama's key supporters on Obama care have an exempt card not having their businesses participate in the program without penalty imposed by the IRS---- Don't forget the Cornhusker's deal some key politicians supporting it was greased with excess federal funding to state medical care plans for their votes --- It's a plan not truly designed to help american's but help those who would benefit getting more enforced business.
5/19/2012 7:57:14 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
try2ku Manakin Sabot, VA 45, joined Jul. 2011	Quote from wasaqueen: You know you selfish a**holes are always complaining about the social contract that America has for those who cannot pay for themselves maybe you should go to a country where you do not have to pay taxes and you do not get all the military benefits that you get. You don't want to pay your taxes because you don't want to support what America, as a country, has decided was the way we wanted our country to be but you have your hand out to take every taxpayer dollar that you can get. What hypocrites. Just saying it's not about paying taxes is more of a problem with the management of tax revenues and the GOA or the General Office of Accountancy has been asleep on the job for years or looking the other way --- if all govt' programs were truly managed as a business for performance efficiency and modified funding and upgrades or even downsize mon-functioning programs - changing approaches as well. Then I could see well major improvements a lot programs placed into effect in the past 30yrs need serious remodified - you could see higher GDP, Reduced Deficit and lower taxes but the issue is too much corporate welfare at the expense of the average worker. It seems that govt works for more proficient for a chosen few in our society instead equally across the board for everyone and has been turned into an attack fest it's not me it's the other guy bs. Just as rep point fingers at dem and the house points fingers at the white house or the white house points fingers at capital hill --- I seen better jobs done by little kids passing the blame on the broken cookie jar.
5/19/2012 10:50:40 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
jokethem Kansas City, KS 63, joined Feb. 2012	I love you. Your one and true, asswipe.
5/20/2012 12:14:08 AM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
jbck Springdale, AR 62, joined Aug. 2007	Can the government make me buy brocolli? Nope! I love brcolli and will buy it anyway. Regardless, if they mandate that we all have to buy it the price of my MY BROCOLLI will soar! I might have to give it up because I can't afford it. Guess I'll have to grow my own brocolli, maybe cancer drugs, too? What is it With this with medical "pot"? Legal in several states but the Federal Government trumps? Who the hell does the Federal Government think it is that they can dictate how we live our lives? Who are they to dictate to the individula states? It just seems stupid to me that we pay for government programs and it's rediculously emcumberes employees that currently make up more than 20% of the workforce to f**k with us? Sorry kids, it just don't make sense to me! The less overnment we have the better. Government doesn't create anything but chaos and rediculous expense. Government may be a necessary evil, but it needs to moderate itself so it does no harm. These days all it does is harm. Sucks to be an American but there is hope. Toss not politicans, toss government employes. We will all be much happier. They don't have to know they are our enemies and can be our brothers in getting off bullshit and becomeing productive participnts in this wonerful nation of soverien states we call The United Sates of America!
5/20/2012 3:24:53 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
phillyty Philadelphia, PA 26, joined Apr. 2012	Speaking of Obama, isn't it a bit strange that his "Life of Julie" campaign features him as president during all of Julie's life???
5/20/2012 3:37:24 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
pelham12345 Bronx, NY 35, joined Dec. 2011	Quote from phillyty: Speaking of Obama, isn't it a bit strange that his "Life of Julie" campaign features him as president during all of Julie's life??? Lmao.. Nice catch! That didnt dawn on me at the time. He is somewhat well known for having a bit of an ego after all
6/28/2012 10:04:41 AM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
icyblue878 Garland, TX 40, joined Jun. 2012	Ugh bad ideas ...... its gonna hurt us in the end. I don't understand people that wants to be controlled. Really, Wat's up wit that?
6/28/2012 2:08:39 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
jokethem Kansas City, KS 63, joined Feb. 2012	Quote from icyblue878: Ugh bad ideas ...... its gonna hurt us in the end. I don't understand people that wants to be controlled. Really, Wat's up wit that? either
6/28/2012 2:54:34 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
wolfman91 Conway, AR 26, joined Nov. 2010	Liberals. Can't live with them. Can't shoot them. Yet. Mark my words. This is the true beginning of the end for America.
6/28/2012 5:24:15 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
pelham12345 Bronx, NY 35, joined Dec. 2011	JB, looks like they could force you to buy brocolli now if they want to.. Oooooohhh wait.. No it's just that if you don't the govt can levy a "tax" onto you for not doing so. The Supreme Court just opened pandora's box of govt power. The govt can now truly regulate and "tax" any part of our lives... At least until the election, as this ruling will likely re-ignite tea party fury and cause another 2010 election
7/1/2012 2:20:30 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
gdragn Lake Worth, FL 55, joined Jul. 2011	Like everything else, this will all come full circle eventually... NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION sound familiar? One day, in this country that has become of the lawyers, by the lawyers, and for the lawyers, someone will successfully sue congress by proving their legislators do not represent the citizens, but only the lobbyists and special interest campaign contributors....
7/2/2012 7:37:59 AM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
jokethem Kansas City, KS 63, joined Feb. 2012	Quote from pelham12345: JB, looks like they could force you to buy brocolli now if they want to.. Oooooohhh wait.. No it's just that if you don't the govt can levy a "tax" onto you for not doing so. The Supreme Court just opened pandora's box of govt power. The govt can now truly regulate and "tax" any part of our lives... At least until the election, as this ruling will likely re-ignite tea party fury and cause another 2010 election Can I have my brocolli with a cheese sauce on it or will that be against my healthcare plan? Just don't force me to eat brussel sprouts. Pandora's box? Brings up a BIG question I have for those who celebrate this healthcare victory. **With this pandora's box blown open wide, what are you going to do when (and it will happen now) that a republician president tells you, you now have to do something or pay a tax. Lets say, a gop president comes in and says before getting an abortion, you HAVE to take birthing classes or work in a hosbital in the baby department before they will let you have your abortion or you pay a hefty fine. They can't deny your abortion because that is the law, but they can put clauses prior to your abortion.
7/2/2012 11:26:00 AM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
pelham12345 Bronx, NY 35, joined Dec. 2011	Exactly... It goes both ways
7/2/2012 5:47:42 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
jrbogie1949 Ventura, CA 68, joined Mar. 2009	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional? turns out neither.
7/2/2012 6:41:58 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
wolfman91 Conway, AR 26, joined Nov. 2010	I said before this that upholding it would be the true beginning of the end. I give it less then five years if it isn't overturned. Oh well. Progressives knew what they were doing before they did it
7/7/2012 3:25:58 AM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
pelham12345 Bronx, NY 35, joined Dec. 2011	Quote from andy505050: hey its drew 5050. I bet this healthcare thing made some of the peoples heads in here explode huh? Well the fact that it is officially a 'tax' as per US supreme court when Obama specifically said it wasnt a 'tax' will have heads roll...... regardless of whether its a tax or not... the fact that the federal govt can now officially penalize you(tax or otherwise) for purchasing something or not is a massive expansion of power that should have heads rolling of all political beliefs.
7/27/2012 3:08:47 AM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
jar3359 Morrice, MI 38, joined Jul. 2012	It's unconstitutional and not cost effective the government can't force you to by anything last time I checked
8/5/2012 3:45:07 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
58dpilot Springdale, AR 62, joined May. 2012	A big topic as I left the workforce to retire was the cost and effect of the Affordable Health Care Act. Private companies have been in the business of providing that more efficiently and effectively than the government can. The realities are these: 1. The government's cost projections are rediculously understated. They failed to take into account business' reaction to it and the reactions of the "insured". 2. Many businesses will opt out, cancel their plans, and dump their employees on the government system. Why? Business knows that they only sign up a relatively small percentage of workers that they do insure. All lose money on their health care plans, that's why they continually increase the cost to employees. 3. Businesses that tried to reduce costs by increasing participation quickly learned that that doesn't work and costs go up astronimically. A healthy 19 year old that didn't sing up has a cold they go to get some Niquil and go to bed and tough it out at work the next moring. If they are are paying for insurance they go to a doctor, get a prescrition, and take a couple days off work. Difference in cost? $3 for Nyquil or $300 plus for doctors, prescriptions and lost time. 4. The single largest cost for most employers is labor cost. Providing health insurance is part of that labor cost. As the cost of labor rises, business tends to reduce the number of workers to keep those costs under control. This goernment program will result in extremely high labor cost increases. Employers will react by reducing the number of workers. It is a job killer. 5. Fewer jobs and people working equate to larger government outlays and reduced revenue through taxes, etc. It weakens the economy significantly when anything that can be done to stimulate the economy is what needs to be done. Debt rises and the ability to pay is thrawrted. Spend more and make less is not an answer to anything. This program simply puts the final blow on the last nail that will result in a complete fiscal meltdown of our economy. Already less than half of the people pay any taxes at all to support the government's systems. We have too many hands out and not enough people filling them. It's a disaster.
8/5/2012 4:58:06 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
pelham12345 Bronx, NY 35, joined Dec. 2011	Or we could just move to a pay to live model.. No health insurance and you goto the hospital for whatever reason and cant pay? You're denied service, go die Somewhere.. You took the risk right?
8/5/2012 10:46:34 PM	Is Obamacare cost effective or just plain unconstitutional?
58dpilot Springdale, AR 62, joined May. 2012	Quote from pelham12345: Or we could just move to a pay to live model.. No health insurance and you goto the hospital for whatever reason and cant pay? You're denied service, go die Somewhere.. You took the risk right? Exactly. What you say is the best solution for any free society where people have the right to the fruits of their labor and property. Just because someone suffers some misfortune it is not incumbent on others to be deprived of their property to fix it for them. In reality the best answer is that if someone is not feeling charitable, it sucks to be the unfortunate victim. It's no different than being the one unfortunate fish in the school that is actually eaten by a passing predator. Being a beggar is tough business and should be. It's not the rest of the schools respnsibility to offer themselves up instead. It might be noble. That is what charity is, a compassionate and noble act. But to enshire such a thing in law and forcibly take anothers property (money) against their will to support it is inherently wrong. Yep, you just go die somewhere like every other living organism on the planet unless some good samaritan decides to come along and help out.

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