TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE

7/29/2012 5:13:32 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
gdragn Lake Worth, FL 54, joined Jul. 2011	It's another wonderful documentary (non-fiction movie) that exposes the big oil monopoly boondoggle and it's negative effect on USA's economy and the global environment.... the congressional hearing segments alone make it a worthwhile eye-opener... Meet singles at DateHookup.dating, we're 100% free! Join now!
7/30/2012 12:33:38 AM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
wasaqueen Seymour, IN 71, joined Feb. 2012	Quote from gdragn: It's another wonderful documentary (non-fiction movie) that exposes the big oil monopoly boondoggle and it's negative effect on USA's economy and the global environment.... the congressional hearing segments alone make it a worthwhile eye-opener... Yeah and these people who keep yelling DRILL BABY DRILL have no idea that in a few years our country will be nothing but a big oil spill because they do not require big oil to clean up their messes. It is also time to stop giving subsidies to oil companies that are making billions of dollars in profits. They can afford to pay taxes just like the rest of us. And before you get froggy Joke, if you saw my bills you would see that I pay plenty of taxes as well as IRS taking a hundred dollars out of my social security each month for the rest of my life even though I am at poverty level income.
7/30/2012 11:57:37 AM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
jokethem Kansas City, KS 63, joined Feb. 2012	Quote from wasaqueen: Yeah and these people who keep yelling DRILL BABY DRILL have no idea that in a few years our country will be nothing but a big oil spill because they do not require big oil to clean up their messes. It is also time to stop giving subsidies to oil companies that are making billions of dollars in profits. They can afford to pay taxes just like the rest of us. And before you get froggy Joke, if you saw my bills you would see that I pay plenty of taxes as well as IRS taking a hundred dollars out of my social security each month for the rest of my life even though I am at poverty level income.
7/31/2012 12:01:03 AM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
wasaqueen Seymour, IN 71, joined Feb. 2012	Quote from jokethem: I offered you an arguement and you give me shit.
7/31/2012 7:38:17 AM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
jokethem Kansas City, KS 63, joined Feb. 2012	Quote from wasaqueen: I offered you an arguement and you give me shit. never mind. My mama taught me better. [Edited 7/31/2012 7:40:06 AM ]
7/31/2012 1:23:24 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
jokethem Kansas City, KS 63, joined Feb. 2012	Quote from andy505050: Oil is nasty. But what do we do? We reallllly need to start developing our own resources. I wish we could say to opec and the middle east in general....Hey is cool just keep chopping each others heads off and being idiots we don't need your oil anymore. American Consumption........goddamn is causes a lot of misery. Be it drugs in mexico or the crap we deal with in the middle east for oil. Its my belief that if we're gonna consume it, we should make it. Id go further to say as well, when it comes to oil if we want the middle east to step into the 21st century we need to stop using their oil. Heres why. We prop up friendly dictators in return the population gets trampled upon, which in turn they start hating us for it. And the fact that the vast majority never see any of the oil profits and live in dire poverty creates the environment that radicalizes these people. they still piss me off though ... we need to start... How many presidents have we heard that campign? Little history. Henry Ford in the early 1920's developed a full electric Model T. He also was working on a hybrid Model T to run on different fuels to include corn alcohol. So the science has been around for 90 plus years. So you tell me why we need to "start" developing alter fuels. This is all old tech.
7/31/2012 1:32:07 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
gdragn Lake Worth, FL 54, joined Jul. 2011	PLEASE SEE THE DOCU "GASHOLE" (topic, ya?) it's more about 50yr old technology adding water vapor to achieve 100mpg ON BUICK V8!! and the big oil agenda to shelve useful patents or destroy their creators to keep consumption and profits unreasonably high much to the detriment of US economy (TREASON)
7/31/2012 1:47:58 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
jokethem Kansas City, KS 63, joined Feb. 2012	Quote from gdragn: PLEASE SEE THE DOCU "GASHOLE" (topic, ya?) it's more about 50yr old technology adding water vapor to achieve 100mpg ON BUICK V8!! and the big oil agenda to shelve useful patents or destroy their creators to keep consumption and profits unreasonably high much to the detriment of US economy (TREASON) and it was back in the mid 70's it was rumored around in the gearhead culture that a retired engineer developed a runable carbon engine block. Weight was near nothing compared to the weight of an iron block. reduce a cars weight by 30% without decreasing the safety and protection of the car body. It was also rumored that ford bought the patent and the engine never saw light again. A friend of my put a water injection system on his 1970's AMC. It did increase the mileage. Not to promised but it did work.
7/31/2012 9:26:06 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
jokethem Kansas City, KS 63, joined Feb. 2012	Quote from andy505050: I was talking about developing more of our own natural gas and oil resources. I'm well aware of the alternative fuels and their history. I also think we should pursue alternative fuels as well. We saw george bush 43 kiss the hand of a the saudi king. F**k that!!! Anything we got to do to get off middle eastern oil. We will have a stronger economy and we'll be safer. Other than supporting Israel the middleeast can go to hell. Then there is the concern for the environment. I do care, however there is a way we can have both. I know an engineer that works at GE and he told me they have the technology to run a car on hydrogen. However theyre still sorting out how to make it less volitile. And another problem is the technology is ahead of the infrasture. Meaning there arent very many places to deliver the fuel nor cars that can take it. So for now theyre working on making it less volitile and figuring out ways to bring it to market. . Our power and light company has run their trucks on NG for 15 plus years. You will never get to the real truth why we don't drill for our own.
8/1/2012 5:38:21 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
wasaqueen Seymour, IN 71, joined Feb. 2012	Quote from andy505050: I have two theorys as to why. First theory is there are way to many interested parties to ever make it an easy propisition to drill for our own. It will take a national emergency or another world war for us to do that. The second theory is.....once we use everyone elses reserves up we still have ours left. In the long term that would ensure our superiority. But it also makes us a target. I think in the next 50 to maybe 100 years oil wont be an issue. i don't think we'll run out. I think we'll replace it with something else altogether. Gasoline will be a specialty product you buy at walmart to run your classic cars on. How can we not run out? They are drilling deeper and many different places now because it is getting harder to find and it is not being replaced because we do not have dinosaurs anymore.
8/2/2012 7:23:08 AM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
jokethem Kansas City, KS 63, joined Feb. 2012	Andy, I too have wondered if our leaders had devised a plan to save our oil and gas supplies while the world uses ever one else's. That would make a darn good plan for in the future we decide to take over the world. Be the lone Super Duper Power. However, if that is the plan meanwhile our economy and people suffers with high prices. Yesterday the price of oil drop over a dollar, so where is the reflection at our end? I realize Ahab can't stand out by the gas sign at 7-11 all day long and chance the price but somewhere along the line we ought to a break for a day or two. Do you think that drilling on public lands and drilling restrictions will change under rummy and enough to make a real difference? Also with the greenys no doubt will push even harder for the protection of the lone yellow belly grub worm if a repub is in office?
8/2/2012 9:37:42 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
wasaqueen Seymour, IN 71, joined Feb. 2012	Joke do you not care if there is anyplace in the US where we can go to get away from from the distruction of oil? We can poison the whole earth for private jets and people to hog the whole world for themselves. One more time for the blind. Our oil does not go to the USA it is sold on the open market and China is getting a lot of it.
8/2/2012 9:45:53 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
jokethem Kansas City, KS 63, joined Feb. 2012	Quote from wasaqueen: Joke do you not care if there is anyplace in the US where we can go to get away from from the distruction of oil? We can poison the whole earth for private jets and people to hog the whole world for themselves. One more time for the blind. Our oil does not go to the USA it is sold on the open market and China is getting a lot of it. I don't see oil as distructive. Oil and oil by-product have been around as long as earth has been and that is much longer then the spot of time humans have been here. Earth is still here.
8/4/2012 1:41:16 AM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
wasaqueen Seymour, IN 71, joined Feb. 2012	Quote from jokethem: I don't see oil as distructive. Oil and oil by-product have been around as long as earth has been and that is much longer then the spot of time humans have been here. Earth is still here. I thought you more intelligent than this last remark. The earth will still be here when humans can no longer live here. We are limited on what our bodies can live with. Every other power, government, that has ever been has fallen when they got too greedy and bankrupted their country with war cost to get MORE. The more being everything as a lot of the rich are doing and saying nobody else deserves anything. What I think is funny is that all of you that are not quite rich enough will also be of no value to them. They seperate themselves from us in every way they can buying up large portions of lands that are kept in wonderful condition for them while they want to pump oil in our beautiful National parks so they the middle class won't even allowed to be close to them. Hiring their private armies to protect them and taking away decent cops and giving us the military supplied protectectors of the wealth. THINK ABOUT IT.
8/5/2012 11:53:39 AM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
wasaqueen Seymour, IN 71, joined Feb. 2012	Andy what do you not understand about the world market buying the oil and we are not the sellers the big oil companies are the sellers. The oil that we have here is not used here so if we drill every drop out it will still be going on the world market not to the US. The US does not profit from drilling in our country. The government is not doing the drilling.
8/5/2012 2:47:16 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
58dpilot Springdale, AR 62, joined May. 2012	Nothing has changed. This dragon guy is still a complete idiot and fool.
8/7/2012 5:01:06 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
gdragn Lake Worth, FL 54, joined Jul. 2011	Quote from 58dpilot: Nothing has changed. This dragon guy is still a complete idiot and fool. Wassup with all these a**holes from assizona? Can't make an intelligent reply or comment without personal attacks? Stay off the grown up people's threads if you've nothing of substance to add... Back to topic- notice how the guy who figured out how to heat-vaporize gas got 100 mpg from a V8 but ended up dead with the investigation stonewalled? BTW know personally of sucessful system that uses low voltage to separate hydrogen from water soluble chemical to add at air intake- computer automatically adjusts without further modification for average mpg increase of 40% with power increase of 15%!! Using right now on fleet of limos and small busses and costs about $400 per kit..
8/8/2012 9:01:00 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
wasaqueen Seymour, IN 71, joined Feb. 2012	Quote from andy505050: Goddamn it Wasa I understand how the market works. And I also understand adding supply to the global market will drive prices down. I don't need an economics lesson from you. And I also understand if Opec or any other oil producing country gets shitty with us that we have our own supply. We don't have to sell it on the global market. And something that your not thinking about is oil produced locally is alot less expensive to be sent to local refineries than shipping it overseas. Just like its cheaper to sell oil from alaska in asian markets it will be cheaper to sell oil from the dakotas to the midwest and south. You can't really use the economics argument. Youre better off sticking with the environmental argument here. And try to compare the economic impact of say an oil spill in the mississippi or something... I will try one more time Andy. The oil that is drilled here does not belong to the US. It belongs to the oil company, such as Shell and BP, it is not owned by the American people and we have no say so as to where it is sold or at how much. They have made laws that allow oil companies to own the oil beneath the owners land. They buy enough of your land to put up and process oil and poison the rest of the land and water. By they way the billions of dollar water companies are doing the same thing and draining local water wells and lakes. And there are no laws that cover the water that is sold to make sure it is safe. It is only regulated if it crosses state lines so most of the bottlers are seeking water sources in every state. And oil is not produced locally there are only a few states that process oil texas being a big one. The pipeline does not go to the states it goes through it will be going to TX.
8/8/2012 10:42:12 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
58dpilot Springdale, AR 62, joined May. 2012	Quote from gdragn: Wassup with all these a**holes from assizona? Can't make an intelligent reply or comment without personal attacks? Stay off the grown up people's threads if you've nothing of substance to add... Back to topic- notice how the guy who figured out how to heat-vaporize gas got 100 mpg from a V8 but ended up dead with the investigation stonewalled? BTW know personally of sucessful system that uses low voltage to separate hydrogen from water soluble chemical to add at air intake- computer automatically adjusts without further modification for average mpg increase of 40% with power increase of 15%!! Using right now on fleet of limos and small busses and costs about $400 per kit.. Keep on dreaming about myths. Even if true, the economics won't work. What a silly man you are. A dreamer and that is not all bad, but reality sucks silly man. Bet you love ehtanol, too!
8/8/2012 11:40:33 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
gdragn Lake Worth, FL 54, joined Jul. 2011	Quote from 58dpilot: Keep on dreaming about myths. Even if true, the economics won't work. What a silly man you are. A dreamer and that is not all bad, but reality sucks silly man. Bet you love ehtanol, too! You total a** clown, I personally inspected and test drove the hydrogen kit car, and the limo service is my customer.Bigger the engine, better the kit works.. Times they are a-changin', happy to leave you behind with the bush/saudi/big oil pirates! And ethanol is just missing the point! Internal cumbustion technology has been deliberately stifled for 60 years and will be totally revolutionized within the next decade you miserable neanderthal...
8/8/2012 11:42:02 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
58dpilot Springdale, AR 62, joined May. 2012	Show me. I think you are full of shit. Never saw anything you predicted or talked about be reality. You're full of shit. Period. Guess what? Everybody on this forum knows that.
8/8/2012 11:45:12 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
58dpilot Springdale, AR 62, joined May. 2012	You're so full of shit it don't matter dude!
8/9/2012 10:12:52 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
wasaqueen Seymour, IN 71, joined Feb. 2012	You are really dreaming Andy if you think the oil companies are gonna allow us to keep our own oil. You have a lot more faith in the money making people than I do. Unless the democrats take everything over in the fall, cause I think they will stop some of the theft of our resources. And besides who of us has the capabilities to drill and pump and refine our own oil. The oil companies own all the equipment, laws and knowledge. And our government has allowed them to stake a claim on anything under the ground we might happen to own. If our government had been looking out for us over the last 12 years they would not have made laws that said someone else can own what is under our feet without owning the land.
8/10/2012 7:57:19 AM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
58dpilot Springdale, AR 62, joined May. 2012	Putting band aids on all this stuff won't work when the problems are fundmental. The problem with revenue is simple, too many people taking out and not enough paying in is a much larger problem than masssaging numbers in the current system. 49 percent of people pay no taxes at all. The majority of those people get back much more than they pay in, that is if they pay in. Over 90% of the tax money collected is already being paid by less than 10% of taxpayers. The current tax system only moves money from one citizen into the pockets of another. If we are going to have taxes, everyone should pay. There is nothing wrong with a prgreessive system where people that make more pay more, but no one should get money back they didn't pay in the first place like they do now. We're all in it together and no one should get a free ride at the expense of their more industrious neighbors. Fundamentally that concept is simply wrong. When my former secretary pays in less than $1200 and gets over $5000 back she doesn't need to thank the government for the handout. She needs to thank me and the the other taxpayers that pay in. Those people are her fellow citizens that the government took the money from so they could give it to her. She needs to remember that money the government has came from a real person somewhere. The government has no money it didn't take from someone else. Redistribution of wealth only leads to more dependency. Wealth needs to be invested in a way that it creates opportunity and growth. That creates jobs and opportunity for everyone. Redistributing it for basic consumption turns what could be an investment in growth into a simple bottomless pit of increased expense. Even worse, it creates a huge class of people that are increasingly dependent on others and trapped in a situation where they have little or no opportunity to succeed on their own. The whole idea of subjugating a large part of the population to dependency on "government" is obscene. It steals any chance those poor folks have at true freedom. It makes them puppets of a government master. That is just un-American!
8/10/2012 1:30:53 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
wasaqueen Seymour, IN 71, joined Feb. 2012	You are very wrong Andy. What is beneath your land does not belong to you anymore. Check it out if you do not want to believe me.
8/10/2012 5:23:29 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
gdragn Lake Worth, FL 54, joined Jul. 2011	Quote from andy505050: Hydrogen works. However, two problems that need solved before it could be economical. Safety. Hydrogen is volitile. Meaning its too combustible. And second it where would you fill up at? The infrastructure isn't in place OK let's try again... the kit is AN ADDITION to the existing gas engine system and merely ADDS hydrogen to the air intake... the hydrogen is created as the car drives, not stored,from a water soluble mixture and applied voltage, which the car's alternator already produces...it is not(yet) meant to replace gasoline but to dramatically increase it's efficiency, thereby reduce it's consumption... someone please dumb this down even further for 86'dpilot, as he is still struggling with the round earth concept...
8/10/2012 5:24:10 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
jrbogie1949 Ventura, CA 68, joined Mar. 2009	Quote from wasaqueen: You are very wrong Andy. What is beneath your land does not belong to you anymore. Check it out if you do not want to believe me. not so unless you've waived mineral rights. you might want to check it out.
8/10/2012 5:29:44 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
gdragn Lake Worth, FL 54, joined Jul. 2011	Quote from 58dpilot: You're so full of shit it don't matter dude! BTW as I told your other assizona butt buddy, you would never dare to insult me to my face, just as you have no factual basis to oppose my views and observations You are so devoid of intelligent content you've had to repeat yourself three times, obviously you are still trying to convince yourself...go back to your bottle and start over, you;ve failed again...
8/10/2012 6:28:30 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
58dpilot Springdale, AR 62, joined May. 2012	Quote from gdragn: OK let's try again... the kit is AN ADDITION to the existing gas engine system and merely ADDS hydrogen to the air intake... the hydrogen is created as the car drives, not stored,from a water soluble mixture and applied voltage, which the car's alternator already produces...it is not(yet) meant to replace gasoline but to dramatically increase it's efficiency, thereby reduce it's consumption... someone please dumb this down even further for 86'dpilot, as he is still struggling with the round earth concept... OK, gdragn, here's the parts of your concept you miss on. I suggest you do a little more research beyond a sound bite or promotional clip. I did. The explanation follows. It is complicated and a little long, but it is the boring truth. Let's see if you can actually get through it. Adding a little hydrogen to other fuels has little effect on cost and efficiency when the cost of equipment modifications are taken into account. In the real world there is nothing more efficient than diesel, followed by gasoline. Modifying vehicles to run on hydrogen is certainly environmentally friendly and a nice idea, but doesn't reduce costs. In fact it will result in increased costs for a number of reasons. With the relatively low cost of conventional fuels even a modification that costs a few thousand dollars per vehicle won't show better economics over the life of a car or truck. Those few thousand dollars would provide enough conventional fuel to run the car for it's reasonable mechanical lifespan. Depending on mileage, that modification cost will run it for a couple hundred thousand miles or more. Adding hydrogen won't make up for the difference in those costs. The same kind of arguments you are making for hydrogen were made for ethanol and also proved false. Adding too much ethanol to gasoline requires equipemnt changes that do not justify the costs. Using it in older vehicles results in equipment damage and increased repair and maintenance costs. Ethanol is much more expensive to produce than gasoline or diesel. Ethanol has only 66% of the BTU or energy value so you get only 2/3 rds the miles out of it. Other costs associated with the production of ethanol include the high cost of growing corn, the fertilizers needed (nitrogen derived from hydrocarbon refining processes), soil runoff and erosion, and transportation costs. All of these influences result in higher costs. From a cost perspective ethanol doesn't compete with conventional fuels cost wise until convention fuel costs around $7.50 a gallon. That $7.50 a gallon does not include other more important costs and effects. Currently ethanol is made from corn. Corn is the single most important ingredient in our food production chain. The impact of ethanol mandates on corn prices as a commodity causes prices for food to skyrocket. When these other things are taken into account there are no savings, only greater costs somewhere else. If ethanol were not subsidized by the government at $1.60 per gallon produced it would be completely infeasible. The only winner in the ethanol business is Archer Daniels Midland Group that makes most of it...guess where? Obama's Illinios. Manufacturer's are already making environmental improvements in diesel engines using urea. Yep, ammonia or piss. Injected into the exhaust stream it scrubs nitrogen molecules, and soot related to diesel exhaust resulting in cleaner emissions. It also helps reduce the presence of benzine molecules in exhaust. The benzine molecule is the only "known" carcinogen on EPA's list of carciniogens (All the others listed are "suspected"). Breathing diesel exhaust exposes people to the only known carcinogen around. So urea is a good thing. But it does add about $8,000 to the cost of a semi tractor and it has to be added to an auxiliary tank to blend it in resulting in additional overall fuel, storage, transportaion, labor, and dispensing costs. Hydrogen gas which can be made nearly as economically as conventional fuel is nice but has a few little problems. It must be stored under very high pressure. It is difficult to transport and store. The high pressure tanks in cars subject occupants and emergency responders to the equivalent of a "roadside" bomb when things go wrong. Filling stations and transports have similar safety hazards. They make excellent targets for terrorists, too. Now, once you get past those little problems there is the problem of DOT, DOE, EPA and other government interference with volumes of regulations regarding it's production, storage, transport, and use. Working out the details of those regulations takes years at best. On top of that the infrastructure needed is astonishingly expensive. There is often much more to a good idea than the people that promote it are willing to address. I'm sure the folks that came up with the system you describe would love to sell millions of them. However, I doubt that in the end there will be any real savings. If there were, it would be quickly embraced because that is what the free market does. At this point it is merely an interesting novelty. If you took time to actually read the facts I have presented you might have a better understanding of what is true and not and what works and doesn't. Just trying to help you out here buddy. I'm not the only one that participates in this forum that knows better, but I am the one that will occasionally take the time to help you understand things you apprently don't.
8/10/2012 6:44:19 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
wasaqueen Seymour, IN 71, joined Feb. 2012	Quote from jrbogie1949: not so unless you've waived mineral rights. you might want to check it out. You check it out JR as I already have. And Pilot knows everything about everything. I am sure that I am as well read as he is and had nine more years of reading than he has. [Edited 8/10/2012 6:45:44 PM ]
8/10/2012 10:01:42 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
gdragn Lake Worth, FL 54, joined Jul. 2011	Quote from 58dpilot: OK, gdragn, here's the parts of your concept you miss on.(bla,bla,bla,bla,bla,bla,bla,bla,bla,bla,etc,quote] Once again in your rush to be condecending and (in your mind) intellectually superior you completely miss out on the updated facts and instead spew only tired old oil industry shill... A small amount of hydrogen made on-board by the reformer is added to the normal intake air and gasoline mixture. This greatly improves overall combustion quality by allowing nearly twice as much air for a given amount of fuel introduced into the combustion chamber. This is more energy efficient because it saves energy by reducing the amount of engine pumping needed. Fuel efficiency is also gained through the use of higher engine compression ratios made possible by the hydrogen-rich charge characteristics. A hydrogen-boosted fuel system also saves energy because of the remarkably low amount of electrical energy needed to power the reformer. According to the developers, it needs less than 75 watts, which is less than the electric needs of one standard headlight... People, it's ALREADY FEASABLE AND WORKING right here in broward county florida for only $450 per vehicle DID YA ACTUALLY READ ANY OF MY POSTS? Hydrogen "BOOST" HELLO? and it's just the beginning! Add alittle water vapor, then heat vaporize gas PRE-CARBURATION and we'll be approaching 100mpg quickly with little or no further engine modifications, as, you see, they ALREADY HAVE ONBOARD COMPUTERIZED IGNITION SYSTEMS,DDUUHH... Yes big oil has nearly killed the golden goose with it's greed, and ingenuity bred of economic necessity IS the new dynamic
8/11/2012 6:36:58 AM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
jrbogie1949 Ventura, CA 68, joined Mar. 2009	Quote from wasaqueen: You check it out JR as I already have. And Pilot knows everything about everything. I am sure that I am as well read as he is and had nine more years of reading than he has. great. we both checked it and each came to a different conclusion.
8/11/2012 6:39:30 AM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
jrbogie1949 Ventura, CA 68, joined Mar. 2009	Quote from andy505050: I own my house, land whats above it and whats underneath it. If you didn't own what was beneath you why do oil companies pay for it? they do pay for it if you can get somebody to drill. that's the problem many landowners in pennsylvania are having. oil under their ground but cheaper to buy saudi sweet crude than drilling.
8/11/2012 10:47:47 AM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
58dpilot Springdale, AR 62, joined May. 2012	Quote from gdragn: BTW as I told your other assizona butt buddy, you would never dare to insult me to my face, just as you have no factual basis to oppose my views and observations You are so devoid of intelligent content you've had to repeat yourself three times, obviously you are still trying to convince yourself...go back to your bottle and start over, you;ve failed again... OK, go buy you one of those and let us know how it works out for you. Do the math and measure the outcomes scientifically and present your findings. That's not too hard to do excpept you have to actually do science rather than simply read about it somewhere.
8/11/2012 7:26:55 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
58dpilot Springdale, AR 62, joined May. 2012	What would happen if we stopped buying oil from overses souces? Many of those countries have no other source of income and no real industry or jobs for their citizens. The Saudi's pay their citizens with oil money. Most Saudi's don't work. Work is done by people from other countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal, and almost all of their engineering and high tech work is imported from Europe or the US. Should we starve them out?
8/14/2012 10:09:10 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
gdragn Lake Worth, FL 54, joined Jul. 2011	Quote from 58dpilot: What would happen if we stopped buying oil from overses souces? Many of those countries have no other source of income and no real industry or jobs for their citizens. The Saudi's pay their citizens with oil money. Most Saudi's don't work. Work is done by people from other countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal, and almost all of their engineering and high tech work is imported from Europe or the US. Should we starve them out? Well, of course, you bozo, that is what GASHOLE and this thread are all about!! Not if but WHEN we increase internal combustion efficiency by 300% or more(100mpg) AND lower emissions, demand and prices will naturally fall and the terrorists lose their power and money.... Ford just claimed, in a commercial, plans to market a 100 mpg hybrid in the near future big oil be damned!
8/15/2012 8:14:04 AM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
58dpilot Springdale, AR 62, joined May. 2012	In oreder for fuels to be used to produce work they are subject to the fundamental laws of thermodynamics. Energy output cannot exceed input. The mos efficent conversion capabilities today approach 60%. The rest is wasted in the form of heat. To create energy, fuel is converted to heat and heat is converte to work. The amount of heat or work is expressed in British Thermal Units or BTU. The BTU value of gasoline is 114,000 BTU per gallon. The BTU value of hydrogen is 51,500 BTU per pound. For hydrogen to equal the work available in one gallon of gasoline one gallon of water would have to broken down at 100% efficiency and delivered to combustion process in the engine. To have no efffect on energy effciciency and merely replace or equal the energy efficiency of gasolien, water would have to be converted at the rate of approximaely one gallon of water to one gallon of gasoline. So now we have a system that purports to improve efficicncty by 300% by adding hydrogen? Hmmm....to do that we have to convert 4 times as much water to hydrogen as the gasoline we are using and deliver that to the engine for combustion. In other words 4 pounds of hydrogen per gallon of gas. Looks like we would need a car with a 10 gallon gas tanks and a 40 gallon water tank. Then we have to take the weight of the extra water into account as it takes more work to lug that around. And all this is assuming that hydrogen is being converted to do 100% work. Typically when gasoline is burned in an engine only about 25% of the potential energy is converted to work. That is a result of the mechanical and aerodynamic obstacles that have to be overcome and the same rule applies to hydrogen or any other fuel used to power a vehicle. Hydrogen is no different than gasoline as it will still only provide 25% of its potential energy as work. Energy figures can also be expressed in kilowatts per hour. For typical fuels some examples are: Gasoline 33.41 Diesel 37.95 Biodiesel 34.80 Natural Gas 21.75 Propaane 24.75 Ethanol 22.70 I still don't buy the whole idea that some magic fix can alter the laws of thermodynamics by adding some cheap little device and a bucket of water to an automobile engine. The science just don't add up.
8/15/2012 5:12:54 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
gdragn Lake Worth, FL 54, joined Jul. 2011	My god you are being so deliberately dense and obtuse and quoting out of context and using antiquated science formulaa AND STILL HAVEN'T SEEN GASHOLE HAVE YOU? the way to get 100mpg FROM GAS is to introduce it to the combustion chamber as a heated vapor along with some water vapor(to increase compression potential) and hydrogen has NOTHING to do with that!! The hydrogen boost system is merely a stopgap innovation that can easily and cheaply increase efficiency UP TO 40% on V8s, less on smaller more efficient engines... In your desperate attempts to discredit me you are exposing yourself as a type of flat earther who cant fathom technology that isn't already mass produced good luck with that obscurity.... See the movie, read all my posts on this thread again, try to keep an open mind (who am I kidding?)
8/15/2012 5:43:30 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
gdragn Lake Worth, FL 54, joined Jul. 2011	Energy figures can also be expressed in kilowatts per hour. For typical fuels some examples are: Gasoline 33.41 Diesel 37.95 Biodiesel 34.80 Natural Gas 21.75 Propaane 24.75 Ethanol 22.70 And totally NOT taken into consideration is the circumstance of ignition characteristics and dynamics for example it's the amount of AIR increasing into the engine which allows it to burn more fuel and get more revs/power.... a fuel/air bomb uses DISPERSAL and SUSPENSION instead of compression to create huge energy output, albeit destructive rather than efficiently harvestable, but the point is VAPOR is the secret to these processes, not some chart measuring mere open combustion at normal atmospheric conditions to compare calorics... Really don't you know this stuff? I get that copters are extremely useful in dedicated situations but they are also grossly inefficient (so far) in general transportation terms, you of all people should be cheering tears of joy for ANY of the technologies I've described to eventually trickle down to your field and make it efficient and more affordable...
8/15/2012 6:47:50 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
58dpilot Springdale, AR 62, joined May. 2012	Sorry. I don't buy it. These conspiracies about miracles in energy can be found anywhere. You've been bullshitted and swallowed it hook line and sinker...again. There is so much wrong with the science you present. You oviously have very little knowledge or training in chemistry and physics. The simple fact is that fuel only has so much energy to give. More air or not is irreleveant because more air doesn't make the fuel more efficient. There is an optimum misture of fuel and air for the best performance. That performance has limits that are expressed as flammability limits. Any back yard mechanic that has ever had trouble starting lawn mower or any other gas powered tool knows this. Any flammable substance has lower flammable and upper flammable limit. Too little oxygen and it won't burn, the mixture is too rich and the engine "floods". If there is too much oxygen it also won't burn. The mixture is too lean to support combustion. For gasoline that is between 1.4% and 7.6% meaning that the concentration must be between 14,000 and 76,000 parts per million with air depending on the temperature and pressure. The higher the temperature and pressure the higher the limits can be. To do what you suggest someone would have to have creatd a miracle that makes combustion of gasoline in an engine over 75% efficient. That simply isn't possible and that isn't even taking into account that the amount of fuel needed is squared with increases in speed. Anyone with even the most basic knowledge of chemistry and physics can't be fooled by such a notion. You can keep screaming about it all you like. Ranting and raving and rambling on doesn't change reality. Like I said, go get one and show me how this magic trick is accomplished. There are also internet sites that know for certain the world will end on December 21, 2012 and that there are aliens among us and they are secretly running things. Some have perpertual moion machines that create more energy than they use. Barry Obama is a Muslim, and Harry Reid has a brain. You can find anything on the internet if you look hard enough, silly boy!
8/15/2012 7:32:04 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
wasaqueen Seymour, IN 71, joined Feb. 2012	I thought debates were about people with differing opinions to make their case. This is not a debate forum it is a forum for rightwinger teapartiers to attack anyone who expresses a differing opinion so that it is not independant but if you do not go along we will eat you alive so you better get dependant on our idea of independant. NOW ATTACK
8/15/2012 8:26:28 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
jokethem Kansas City, KS 63, joined Feb. 2012	Quote from wasaqueen: I thought debates were about people with differing opinions to make their case. This is not a debate forum it is a forum for rightwinger teapartiers to attack anyone who expresses a differing opinion so that it is not independant but if you do not go along we will eat you alive so you better get dependant on our idea of independant. NOW ATTACK
8/15/2012 10:50:03 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
58dpilot Springdale, AR 62, joined May. 2012	Quote from wasaqueen: I thought debates were about people with differing opinions to make their case. This is not a debate forum it is a forum for rightwinger teapartiers to attack anyone who expresses a differing opinion so that it is not independant but if you do not go along we will eat you alive so you better get dependant on our idea of independant. NOW ATTACK Opinions have nothing to do with scientific facts you dork. Jesus, stay in your element with other nebulous bullshit and stay out of places where you are so bankrupt as to be compleely insignificant. You are so far out of your element here I bet you have no idea what the periodic table is. BTW, it has nothing to do with birth contol. Geeeezzz.
8/16/2012 12:25:50 AM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
gdragn Lake Worth, FL 54, joined Jul. 2011	look dumbass, I'm starting to lose patience with your smug doubletalk... are you that heavily invested in oil or what? anyone knows 20th cen gas engines are only 30% efficient or less at best... what are you so afraid of? did you know there are working prototypes of engines that run on COMPRESSED AIR? necessity is a mother, and the world needs to stop spending too much on inefficiency just to keep a relatively few mega rich megalomaniacs happy... progress marches on, get over it! 100mpg is a foreseeable target claimed by FORD MOTOR COMPANY on broadcast TV, not some obscure internet hoax... people must be wondering by now what exactly your agenda is in trying to discredit and suppress progress....Oh Yeah, I forgot, you're a conservative(of the status quo) and a reactionary (go backwards) and all this talk of new fangled stuff done put you off your feed, shuckus... as usual, as in the past(where you exist) you have not seen the movie(light) but that won't stop you from making an a** of yourself as time passes you by... sad, yet hilarious (58, not you, 50) [Edited 8/16/2012 12:28:02 AM ]
8/16/2012 10:35:21 AM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
58dpilot Springdale, AR 62, joined May. 2012	It is impossible to do much to help an idiot or a fool. I give up. Think what you want because regardless of the reality of things that is what you do best. You have my sympathy.
8/16/2012 5:23:19 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
gdragn Lake Worth, FL 54, joined Jul. 2011	Quote from 58dpilot: It is impossible to do much to help an idiot or a fool. I give up. Think what you want because regardless of the reality of things that is what you do best. You have my sympathy. I'm not the only one on here you have called an idiot and a fool,as a matter of fact, anyone who even seemed to disagree with you for a moment has recieved that honor, as a50 and jrb can attest... Independent thinking largely occurs outside the box, and one must be willing to at least entertain new ideas.... can you remember when people scoffed at the idea of commercial hydrofoil and hovercraft? How about personal handheld computers that would replace watch, calendar, phone, calculator, notebook, boardgames, maps, AND allow one to view TV, movies, internet content AND converse live video etc? I'm sure this same guy was calling people idiots and fools for these same ideas 25 yrs ago, but I was reading about this stuff coming in 1970, written by guys pre 1960!! Right now you can buy a computer operated mill that will create the parts to assemble anything you can dream up and successfully engineer, my buddy uses one to create customized orthotics from actual patient's foot molds, and little inventions on the side... the mill costs less than a new car!!!
8/16/2012 9:41:41 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
58dpilot Springdale, AR 62, joined May. 2012	You said, I quote: "I'm not the only one on here you have called an idiot and a fool,as a matter of fact, anyone who even seemed to disagree with you for a moment has recieved that honor, as a50 and jrb can attest...". Answer: Not everyone, just a select few. As for those people, you are in appropriate company. Queenie oves you, too! Nuff said.
8/17/2012 12:41:20 AM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
wasaqueen Seymour, IN 71, joined Feb. 2012	Gdragn you forgot to bow to the king JBCK aka 58pilot so he is gonna try to run you off the forum. Unless you agree with every word he says and tell him all the time how magnificent he is then you will be attacked cause he is the only one knows anything about everything.
8/17/2012 3:37:56 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
gdragn Lake Worth, FL 54, joined Jul. 2011	Well see that's what that kind of people crave, a return to class/caste society, he who would be king(of the forrrrrrrrrrrest). BTW, what's with the queen stuff? you both have issues, but you at least have manners...I'll bet niether of you has seen the documentary, ya? 1st rule: stay on topic? the rockefeller strata has been screwing the country since 1900s especially with the banking manipulations... it's a matter of historical fact and the basis of regulatory law that the gop has as it's agenda to destroy since nixon... big oil, big money-big money, big banks- big banks, big robberies(especially white collar, the biggest, see INSIDE JOB)
8/17/2012 5:32:48 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
wasaqueen Seymour, IN 71, joined Feb. 2012	Quote from gdragn: Well see that's what that kind of people crave, a return to class/caste society, he who would be king(of the forrrrrrrrrrrest). BTW, what's with the queen stuff? you both have issues, but you at least have manners...I'll bet niether of you has seen the documentary, ya? 1st rule: stay on topic? the rockefeller strata has been screwing the country since 1900s especially with the banking manipulations... it's a matter of historical fact and the basis of regulatory law that the gop has as it's agenda to destroy since nixon... big oil, big money-big money, big banks- big banks, big robberies(especially white collar, the biggest, see INSIDE JOB) I have seen these videos and agree with some and doubt some. While I was learning to use the computer, I spent 5 years reading all this stuff and I know about the banking system and how many of the honest politicians of the day were warning them not to turn our banking over to the Federal Reserve but it was done in the dark of night metaphorically speaking the same of the INCOME TAX that was voted on Christmas Eve when most politicians were home for the holidays. They have been trying since the beginning of this country to make taking away freedoms and claiming they are not rights but privledges.
8/17/2012 7:37:04 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
58dpilot Springdale, AR 62, joined May. 2012	Quote from andy505050: Yes we should. How else can we drag their backward medevil asses into the 21st century? I wonder how much of the money we spend on gas and oil etc....ends up in the hands of terrorists. If they want money make them participate in the global economy. Let them create things of value. Then let them sell those things. And when they start doing that it means their people will have to learn to get along with the rest of the world. Hell, if the govt paid me oil royalties I could run around the desert screaming jihad too. To much time on their hands lol. The state of Alaska used to pay royalty money to residents of that state. I'm not sure if they still do, but many years ago they did.
8/17/2012 7:58:11 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
jrbogie1949 Ventura, CA 68, joined Mar. 2009	Quote from 58dpilot: What would happen if we stopped buying oil from overses souces? Many of those countries have no other source of income and no real industry or jobs for their citizens. The Saudi's pay their citizens with oil money. Most Saudi's don't work. Work is done by people from other countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal, and almost all of their engineering and high tech work is imported from Europe or the US. Should we starve them out? WE don't buy oil from overseas sources. the oil companies and refiners do all the buying. saudi sweet crude is the easiest to refine and yields a higher product per barrel so exon/mobil and the like buy all that they can get. it's a global market folks and the markets rule. always have, always will.
8/17/2012 7:59:57 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
jrbogie1949 Ventura, CA 68, joined Mar. 2009	Quote from 58dpilot: The state of Alaska used to pay royalty money to residents of that state. I'm not sure if they still do, but many years ago they did. yep, now they're bankrupt like most states and keep it all.
8/18/2012 9:03:31 AM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
58dpilot Springdale, AR 62, joined May. 2012	According to an article I read in Forbes, the kind of equipment the Saudi's are buying indicates their wells are going dry. The article stated that indications were that they grossly over state their reserves. He predicted they might be nearly out of oil by 2020 or so. When they go dry, oil prices will necessarily go up significantly. Perhaps they are asking higher prices because even though they don't make it public, their supply is dwindling and they want the higher prices now while they still have some left? [Edited 8/18/2012 9:04:41 AM ]
8/18/2012 9:05:36 AM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
jrbogie1949 Ventura, CA 68, joined Mar. 2009	WE don't drill for domestic oil any more than WE don't buy foriegn oil. the oil companies do both. here's what few seem to get. it's a global market and the market dictates not only where oil is bought but where it is drilled. pennsyvania property owners are sitting on tons of oil but they can't get anybody to drill because other sources make more sense economically.
8/18/2012 9:08:24 AM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
jrbogie1949 Ventura, CA 68, joined Mar. 2009	Quote from 58dpilot: According to an article I read in Forbes, the kind of equipment the Saudi's are buying indicates their wells are going dry. The article stated that indications were that they grossly over state their reserves. He predicted they might be nearly out of oil by 2020 or so. When they go dry, oil prices will necessarily go up significantly. Perhaps they are asking higher prices because even though they don't make it public, their supply is dwindling and they want the higher prices now while they still have some left? thinkin' your forbes author is full of shit. saudi ain't drying up anytime soon.
8/18/2012 6:17:27 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
58dpilot Springdale, AR 62, joined May. 2012	Quote from jrbogie1949: thinkin' your forbes author is full of shit. saudi ain't drying up anytime soon. And your source is? Your opinion is based on? The board you sit on from which your information is derived is? Would be interesting to know.
8/18/2012 7:41:34 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
wasaqueen Seymour, IN 71, joined Feb. 2012	Quote from andy505050: these comments drive me nuts. no one who is commenting thinks that "we" actually as a country drill. we know oil companies drill. and i wouldnt be against nationalising part of the energy industry. if oil companies dont wanna drill we should. WE ARE DRILLING why is it so hard to understand that we are drilling all over the country. Has no one on here ever listen to the news? There is more drilling here than there has been in 20 years. I guess all you well informed people are not aware of the leaks that have been distroying MI river with tar sands and the other leaks that are going on in all those places you all think we should drill. It is being drilled. I swear some would drill so that no spot in America would be able to support animals much less humans.
8/18/2012 9:56:58 PM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
gdragn Lake Worth, FL 54, joined Jul. 2011	60 mins showed us a few years back that the original saudi wells were indeed beginning to fade, that's why gwb, that saudi lapdog and big oil puppet declared war #2 on iraq! it seems the richer fields to the north extend into iraq, who was organizing the infrastructure, and the saudis were well behind. But the second war, which never was about wmds as there never were any, was intended to destroy infrastructure, as it did, and why usa continued occupation even after saddam was captured---to give saudis time to create infrastructure to the north oilfields, which they did, successfully, and usa foots the bill with an expensive war,this time with an even more expensive occupation... btw, remember the first iraq war was also at the behest of saudi royals who couldn't tolerate iraqi imperialism competing with their own imperialism, never mind that usa armed iraq in the first place... but in both wars, saudis profited, big oil profited, arms manufacturers and military industrial complex profited, but the usa economy took huge hits, and the saudis never paid back a dime.... and yes, don't forget, the construction company that mainly contracted the northward saudi infrastructure? OWNED BY THE FAMILY OF OSAMA BIN LADEN!! I'll never forget the clip of gdubya pretending to search under the furniture in the oval office, chuckling "nope, no weapons of mass destruction here" as long as I live, and niether should anyone else!
8/19/2012 1:12:18 AM	TAXATION (by big oil) without representation- see GASHOLE
58dpilot Springdale, AR 62, joined May. 2012	You have no idea what the first war was about. Guess what? I was there and prosceuted it personally. I might have a little blood on my hands and it might be insignificant to someone that is no more than a pontificator like you. Men lived and died there. It was not about Saudi anything, it was bout stopping Saddam the Stain from taking over a big part of the middle east. The mission was simple as our commander presented it to us. Our mission was to eliminate 100% of Saddam's ability to make war. If that included trashing some of his soliders, so be it. It was never intendend to kill people, just his abiity to make war. We did that well. We were effective. That was the mission. Everything beyond that was political and had nothing to do with the good and brave men and women that prosecuted it. They were good people. Fking drgn dork dumb a that never did anything more difficult than argue with someone from who knows where at a convenience store about how much something costs. No clue you dorky fool. Disgusting people are just that, disgusting. Wear that badge with pride you entitled little fool and pssy. Show me credentials where yo did anything worth doing and I might change my attitude about you sorry little pssy. Until then, you would do well to allow your betters their due and give brave people their due. What a freaking idiot!

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