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| 6/21/2014 11:18:29 AM |
Breaking of the power of the Holy People - Daniel 12 |
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mindya
Vancouver, BC
64, joined Jan. 2009
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Interestingly the futurists are at a loss to understand just who the holy people are in the Old Testament - some of them think it's the Roman Church.
They try and fit the "time, times, and an half" anywhere in history other than where it belongs - the 1st century AD.
(Dan 12:7 KJV) And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.
Dane 12:7 (NIV) The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, βIt will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed.β
When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed.β - so just who are the "holy people"?
When deciding just who they are we must bear in mind that the bible is basically a "story" of Israel and her covenant relation to God.
"(Mat 15:24 KJV) But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
Lets look at a few verses from scripture that plainly state who the "holy people" are:
(Deu 7:6 KJV) For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
(Deu 14:2 KJV) For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.
(Deu 14:21 KJV) .... for thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God...
(Deu 26:19 KJV).....that thou mayest be an holy people unto the LORD thy God, as he hath spoken.
(Deu 28:9 KJV)......The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself....
(Isa 62:12 KJV) And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the LORD: and thou shalt be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken.
(Dan 8:24 KJV) And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practice, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
Just as it is imperative to correctly identify the whor.e in the book of revelation to understand prophecy it is just as imperative to identify the "holy people" in Daniel.
The whor.e in revelation is avenged for killing the prophets:
(Rev 18:20 KJV) Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
We know precisely who the above is because Jesus implicitly told us:
(Mat 23:37 KJV) O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
(Mat 23:38 KJV) Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
We can see the destruction of the whor.e aka apostate 1st century Jerusalem whose house is left desolate (powerless) is a direct fit with Dan 12:7 "When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed.β
Any attempt at fitting the holy people and their destruction with anything other than 1st century AD Israel/Jerusalem is a total denial of scripture and is playing hanky panky with it.
(Jer 4:30 KJV) And when thou art spoiled, what wilt thou do? Though thou clothest thyself with crimson, though thou deckest thee with ornaments of gold, though thou rentest thy face with painting, in vain shalt thou make thyself fair; thy lovers will despise thee, they will seek thy life.
There is a definite link between Jeremiah 4:30 and the book of revelation:
(Rev 17:16 KJV) And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the wh*re, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
We know that the "love" relationship between Jerusalem (aka the whor.e) and her lovers (Romans emperors) came to an end in the 1st century AD when they "sought her life".
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| 6/21/2014 11:41:36 AM |
Breaking of the power of the Holy People - Daniel 12 |
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mooniedoonie
Greenville, SC
50, joined Feb. 2008
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Wow!! Talk about being deceived. I pray the Lords wrath comes to whomever it was that bewitched you to another Gospel because brother you did not always believe this way, and it's sad cause it seems that's all you can talk about.
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| 6/21/2014 11:51:22 AM |
Breaking of the power of the Holy People - Daniel 12 |
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mindya
Vancouver, BC
64, joined Jan. 2009
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Wow!! Talk about being deceived. I pray the Lords wrath comes to whomever it was that bewitched you to another Gospel because brother you did not always believe this way, and it's sad cause it seems that's all you can talk about.
What don't you agree with in what I posted Harry?
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| 6/21/2014 12:37:19 PM |
Breaking of the power of the Holy People - Daniel 12 |
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looptex1
Chatsworth, GA
49, joined Jun. 2008
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Wow!! Talk about being deceived. I pray the Lords wrath comes to whomever it was that bewitched you to another Gospel because brother you did not always believe this way, and it's sad cause it seems that's all you can talk about.
Why do you think he ia deceived?
He has given the scriptures to support what he has said.
Do the scriptures lie?
What is your opinion of it?
But, while giving your opinion, back it up with scripture.
Who do you say the wh*re is?
The roman catholic church maybe?
Support that idea with scripture
Who do you say the holy people are?
Support that with scripture
And the last question is the one that really drains the water from the sink,
Who do you think killed the prophets?
Support that with scripture
Many people have this idea or that idea, but when tried against the scriptures, their idea lacks.
Sure, I can say my neighbor killed the prophets, but when I try to back that up with scripture, I find it was 1st century Israel who done that.
My neighbor-0
Scripture-1
I can say my neighbor crucified our lord, yet when we try to back that up with scripture, we find it wasn't my neighbor that done that either.
My neighbor-0
Scripture-2
I can say my neighbor is holy,
and though his inner man may be holy, when I search the scripture to find what holy people he was talking about, and breaking their power, "which of course come by the law" we find that it isn't speaking of my neighbor.
My neighbor -0
Scripture-3
I can call my neighbor the Antichrist, yet when we search the scripture, we find the Antichrist already was in the day of christ, so again my neighbor is out
My neighbor-0
Scripture-4
Now the question that begs to be asked is this,
Do we believe the scriptures, study the scriptures for our understanding,
Allow the scriptures to be what we determine our beliefs by,
or
Do we make up things that can't be backed up by the scriptures and go with it?
I'll be the first to admit, all things are not just plainly said and therefore we will have disagreements,
but when we study the scriptures, and allow God and his word to direct our thinking and the putting together the pieces of the puzzle, we will agree on it.
The problem lies within us, myself included so I'm not pointing fingers.
But we, many times have heard this or that, maybe even all our life and just swallowed it up.
Never reading for yourself what the word says, never seeing for yourself if what he or she said was true.
Well guess what? It wasn't always true, not that they were intentionally decieving us, but they themselves knew no better.
I'll give you an prime example,
We have all heard the saying, call upon the lord and he will hear you,ask him for help and he will be there,
We brother, not so, you let me get out of Gods will, and just because I get in trouble or need some help cry out for help, you will see a man speaking into the air.
The words says, if my people which are called by my name, will humble themselves, seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways, then, then will I hear from heaven.
You see that, there is some thing I have to do beside just say help me Jesus,
You see it everyday, all across the land, people put God on the back burner and think he will grant their wish when times get tough.
Well my friend, that's exactly what Israel, Gods children done in that day and time.
They began to go after other Gods, and live and do just as they saw fit, guess what end cone upon them.
Destruction, there were prophets running around saying peace peace, and there was no peace, God even said I sent them not.
He had sent some, many times where they warned, even told, how often o would have gather you together as a hen does her brood, but you would not, you would not,
Did you get that, you would not! He declared what he was wanting to do,he declared hhis love and desire to be a father, a God, a protector to them, but they, they would not.
They killed his servants that brough tthe word because they didn't like what they were hearing, they would not listen, hears that cannot hear and eyes that cannot see, wells without water.
And its no different today, people think they can just do any ole thing and get by, well my friend, dream on.
The chastiment of the lord is coming upon those who live ungodly and profess to have been born of God.
He said he would treat them as sons, and chastise them, for he chastises those he loves.
No, I'm not telling you that you lose your salvation, but rest assured you will lose the joy of it.
And now let me tell you when it will return, it won't be because you found things going wrong and said Jesus help me, it won't be when sickness, death or anything of this world comes and you want it to change and say Jesus help me,
It will come when you humble yourself, turn from your wicked ways, seek his face and then call upon his name, then will he hear from heaven and heal your land, restoring the blessings, the fruit that brings for joy and gladness.
Now, I realize I drifted off topic but that will be ok, but I ask you again, are we gonna believe the word backed up by the word, or just something that comes out of someone's mouth.
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| 6/26/2014 7:05:36 PM |
Breaking of the power of the Holy People - Daniel 12 |
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mindya
Vancouver, BC
64, joined Jan. 2009
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I guess moonie would rather have me discuss church barbecues instead of scripture..
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