James vs Paul

4/14/2015 7:01:52 PM	James vs Paul
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 67, joined Aug. 2010	Paul vs. James Paul teaches that the gift of salvation through grace occurs APART FROM any behavioral requirement: Romans 3:28 : "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith WITHOUT THE DEEDS OF THE LAW." Paul reiterates this position in: Romans 4:6; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8-9; II Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5 -- yet no other Bible writer ever makes this point of stating that salvation occurs apart from or separate from works or deeds, which Paul not only states, but reiterates so emphatically. Paul is specifically rebutted by the later writing of James (brother of Jesus) who offers one of the most striking and dramatic direct contradictions in James 2:24. Here he chooses language and syntactical structures which specifically contradicts Paul's wording in Romans 3:28 in both content and construction: Here are the two passages, shown in various translations: Romans 3:28 (Paul) KJV: a man is JUSTIFIED by FAITH apart from WORKS of the law. RSV: a man is JUSTIFIED by FAITH without the DEEDS of the law. Today's English Version: a person is PUT RIGHT WITH GOD only through FAITH, and not by DOING what the Law commands. NIV: a man is JUSTIFIED by FAITH apart from OBSERVING THE LAW. James 2:24 (James' rebuttal) KJV: by WORKS a man is JUSTIFIED, and not by FAITH only. RSV: a man is JUSTIFIED by WORKS and not by FAITH alone. Today's English Version: it is by his ACTIONS that a person is PUT RIGHT WITH GOD, and not by his FAITH alone. NIV: a person is JUSTIFIED by what he DOES and not by FAITH alone. We could put these statements into a formula: J = Justification. F = Faith (whatever it is; however you define it) W = Works Paul's formula: J = F - W James' formula: J = F + W "J" cannot equal both "F - W" and "F + W" thus a clear and direct contradiction. Clearly, James seems to be saying exactly the opposite of what Paul says. The key words here, in both passages, are JUSTIFIED (or, in Today's English, "put right with God"), WORKS/DEEDS/ACTIONS (or, in NIV, "observing the law"), and FAITH (same in all versions of both passages). Not only does James echo the same words, in the same parallel structure, but he even cites exactly the same example! The passage from Paul comes near the end of the third chapter of Romans; immediately after that, opening up the fourth chapter, Paul cites the example of Abraham and says it was his faith, not his works, that justified him (Romans 4:1-3). In James 2:21-24 (the same passage noted above), Paul's very example is used against him, but with the opposite (and contradictory) conclusion, that Abraham was justified by the combination of faith with works. Not only does James use exactly the same example, but to remove any doubt that they are referring to Abraham in exactly the same context, both Paul (Romans 4:3) and James (James 2:23) refer to exactly the same scriptural reference to Abraham, in which the Old Testament scriptures say that Abraham's belief was counted to him for righteousness (see Genesis 15:6). James' use of the same examples (right down to the identical scriptural reference), same words, and parallel structure clearly suggest that this was an intentional reply/rebuttal to Paul. If anyone wants to suggest that, perhaps, the two passages have different root words in the original texts that just happened to pick up similar English equivalents by all these translators, then maybe we should look at the Greek source texts. The same Greek word DIKAIOO is used by BOTH Paul AND James for the term justification (or "put right with God") in BOTH passages. While the Today's English Version does use a different term in their English translation, at least they apply it consistently in both Romans and James. The same Greek word ERGON is used by BOTH Paul AND James for the term variously translated as works, deeds, actions, doing, or observing. While the English translators couldn't agree on the best term, both Paul and James were talking about the same thing. And, with the exception of the NIV, the translators of each version at least are consistent in their own usages between Paul and James. I wonder, however, about the objectivity of the NIV -- one of the most popular texts among conservative Christians -- in choosing to change the wording used between Paul and James in a way that subtly changes the connotation of Paul to be less in contradiction to James. The same Greek word PISTIS is used by both Paul AND James for the word that all versions of both passages translated as "faith." Some have tried to explain these differences by saying that Paul and James had different meanings for their words "justification," "faith" and "works/deeds." Yet the simple fact remains they used the same words, in the same order and same context, even illustrated with the same example of Abraham and Isaac. But on several occasions, attention has been called to one difference in the wording of Paul and James. While they use the same words, in the same context and the same order, when talking about the "works/deeds" Paul adds the phrase "of the law" while James does not. Some have argued that this means Paul is talking about something different. Not so. Paul's use of that phrase is a restrictive modifying clause, limiting the scope of what he is talking about. By leaving it out, James is at the very least accepting everything in Paul's more restrictive context and broadening to include additional contexts. But more to the point is that earlier in the same chapter (James chapter two) James, just before the verse in question and his reference to Paul's example of Abraham and Isaac, in verses 8-13 James discusses behavior very specific in terms of the Law, and the deeds of the Law. Aside from the possibility of simply broadening the more narrow focus of Paul, what seems more likely IN CONTEXT is that James does not need to say "of the law" since he has already made it clear a few verses before that he is talking about "deeds of the law." In fact, the only credible scenario is that James is clearly rebutting Paul's scandalous undermining of Jesus' teachings. Paul is not only rebutted by James in the examples above, but also admits having some problems getting along with Peter, admitting in Galatians 2:11: "But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed." In stark contrast to Paul's teaching of salvation by faith APART FROM behavioral manifestations, Jesus (in Matt. 7:21-27), state unequivocally that the mere profession of accepting him is not enough, but that such a profession MUST BE backed up by deeds. Jesus teaches a salvation of universal compassionate love expressed in ACTION. It is the centerpiece of everything he taught. And Jesus himself consistently expressed love and closeness to sinners, lepers, tax collectors and other outcasts, while saving his rare words of harshness and anger for the Pharisees and Saducees -- the pompous, self-righteous administrators of the established religious orthodoxy. Source: http://www.wordwiz72.com/paul.html Steve Meet singles at DateHookup.dating, we're 100% free! Join now!
4/14/2015 7:59:11 PM	James vs Paul
Equalizer21 Seattle, WA 54, joined Oct. 2014	Paul said by the works of the law no one would be justified before God. This is absolutely 100% true. James says Faith without works is dead. This is 100% absolutely true. The word works James used, could that include Law? The Answer would be yes 100% true. Paul also agrees with that. Romans 8:4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. Would this righteous requirement of the Law, include keeping sabbath, not stealing, not lying? I see no conflict at all in Gods word, I see no conflict between James and Paul at all. I do see conflict in you, because of the way you are receiving some of these things. Peter said they were very hard to understand, and those untaught, twist it. Might i suggest you sit under a qualified gifted teacher like this! Ephesians 4:11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, Sometimes being self taught isnt good.
4/14/2015 8:44:24 PM	James vs Paul
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 67, joined Aug. 2010	Quote from Equalizer21: Paul said by the works of the law no one would be justified before God. This is absolutely 100% true. James says Faith without works is dead. This is 100% absolutely true. The word works James used, could that include Law? The Answer would be yes 100% true. Paul also agrees with that. Romans 8:4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. Would this righteous requirement of the Law, include keeping sabbath, not stealing, not lying? I see no conflict at all in Gods word, I see no conflict between James and Paul at all. I do see conflict in you, because of the way you are receiving some of these things. Peter said they were very hard to understand, and those untaught, twist it. Might i suggest you sit under a qualified gifted teacher like this! Ephesians 4:11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, Sometimes being self taught isnt good. Equal: Being self taught can be either good or bad. Following the tradtions of man instead of the traditions of God is always bad. It appears to me that you are happy with merely following the traditions of man. It is more than sad that you have read the Bible several times and don't see the problems with what Paul taught. Paul taught that God's Laws were a curse to man. Paul also taught that God's Laws were done away with. Yeshua never, ever, taught that God's Laws were a curse to man and didn't teach that any of God's/Yeshua's Laws were done away with. Like I wrote before it is unlikely that Peter wrote Second Peter. The true Apostles had little to do with the strange Paul. They did their best to avoid Paul and Paul avoided the true 12 Apostles. Paul didn't attempt to teach any of the 12 Tribes of Jacob because Paul knew that they would not agree with his "faith" only teachings. Paul had to go to the gentiles to teach his false doctrine and lots of them didn't agree with his teachings. Paul was a known murderer. Paul even admitted he was a Pharisee. Yeshus said Pharisees were a den of vipers/snakes. Yeshua never said anything good about the Pharisees. Paul, in most of his strange letters, said he was an Apostle. The other Apostles never boasted of being an Apostle because everone knew they were Apostles. Paul said to follow him instead of saying to follow Yeshua. Paul admitted he was a liar. Paul would sometimes say he was the best/most important Apostle and at other times would say he was the least Apostle. Paul could not make up his mind, in his letters, if he was the most important Apostle or least Apostles, I guess the reason he could not make up his mind is that he was not an Apostle. Yeshua did not select Paul as an Apostle but he did choose eleven others as Apostles and the eleven others selected Matthias as an Apostle and not Paul. Religion as we know it today would be completely different if the Catholic Church has left Paul's strange/silly letters out of the Bible. Equal: You need to decide to either follow the teachings of Moses, the Prophets, Yeshua and the true 12 Apostles or to follow the person that claimed to be the 13th apostle which Paul falsely claimed to be. You need to make up your mind to follow the Patriarchs of the Bible or the lone wolfe Paul. It appears to me that Paul has you in his snare. You seem to be very deeply entrenched and beguiled/seduced by the strange teachings of the murderer, tare and false apolstle Paul. Steve
4/14/2015 8:55:58 PM	James vs Paul
Equalizer21 Seattle, WA 54, joined Oct. 2014	Paul taught that God's Laws were a curse to man. Where, what scripture please? Paul also taught that God's Laws were done away with Dont think so. Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law. Like I wrote before it is unlikely that Peter wrote Second Peter. Your not going to make any catholic friends here! You sound like countless others posting here who basically dont believe Gods word is Gods word. Paul said to follow him instead of saying to follow Yeshua. phil 3 17 Brethren, join in following my example, and note those who so walk, as you have us for a pattern. Was paul not walking according to the new covenant? Got scripture to show that? Paul admitted he was a liar. Paul would sometimes say he was the best/most important Apostle and at other times would say he was the least Apostle. Paul could not make up his mind, in his letters, if he was the most important Apostle or least Apostles, I guess the reason he could not make up his mind is that he was not an Apostle. Yeshua did not select Paul as an Apostle but he did choose eleven others as Apostles and the eleven others selected Matthias as an Apostle and not Paul. Religion as we know it today would be completely different if the Catholic Church has left Paul's strange/silly letters out of the Bible. I see you exaggerate a lot and provide no scripture.......we should follow your word then?
4/14/2015 9:10:11 PM	James vs Paul
Equalizer21 Seattle, WA 54, joined Oct. 2014	Following the tradtions of man instead of the traditions of God is always bad. Where was Paul teaching to follow mans tradition? Scripture please!
4/15/2015 12:14:55 AM	James vs Paul
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 67, joined Aug. 2010	I wrote: Paul taught that God's Laws were a curse to man. Equal wrote: Where, what scripture please? My response: Galatians 3:10-13 -- For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree. If you will notice in the above verses Paul changes his mind often. ________________________________________________________________________________ I wrote: Like I wrote before it is unlikely that Peter wrote Second Peter. Equal wrote: Your not going to make any catholic friends here! You sound like countless others posting here who basically dont believe Gods word is Gods word. My response: I am not here to make Catholics or any other denomination happy. I do believe the Bible is God's Word except for the teachings some of the teachings of Paul. As I have said before some of Paul's teachings, when it agrees with the teachings of the Patriarchs of the Bible, is fine but when Paul's teachings disagrees with the Patriarchs of the Bible then Paul's writings are deceiving. __________________________________________________________________________________ I wrote: Paul said to follow him instead of saying to follow Yeshua. Equal Wrote: Got scripture to show that? My response: 1 Corinthians 4:16 King James 2000 Bible Therefore I beseech you, be followers of me. ___________________________________________________________________________________ I wrote: Paul admitted he was a liar. Paul would sometimes say he was the best/most important Apostle and at other times would say he was the least Apostle. Paul could not make up his mind, in his letters, if he was the most important Apostle or least Apostles, I guess the reason he could not make up his mind is that he was not an Apostle. Yeshua did not select Paul as an Apostle but he did choose eleven others as Apostles and the eleven others selected Matthias as an Apostle and not Paul. Religion as we know it today would be completely different if the Catholic Church has left Paul's strange/silly letters out of the Bible. Equal wrote: I see you exaggerate a lot and provide no scripture.......we should follow your word then? Paul admitted he was a liar: Romans 3:7 King James Bible For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? ____________________________________________________________________________________ I wrote: Paul would sometimes say he was the best/most important Apostle and at other times would say he was the least Apostle. Paul could not make up his mind, in his letters, if he was the most important Apostle or least Apostles, I guess the reason he could not make up his mind is that he was not an Apostle. The verses that prove me correct: 1 Corinthians 15:9 King James Bible For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. I am the worst of them (1Timothy 1:15) 2 Corinthians 11:5 King James Bible For I suppose I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles. _____________________________________________________________________________________ I wrote: Yeshua did not select Paul as an Apostle but he did choose eleven others as Apostles and the eleven others selected Matthias as an Apostle and not Paul. Religion as we know it today would be completely different if the Catholic Church has left Paul's strange/silly letters out of the Bible. Equal: I would think you understand the rest of what I wrote. Actually if you are a frequent Bible reader I am more than surprised that you needed for me to show you the actual verses that confirmed what I wrote in my last post. Steve PS: Equal wrote: I wrote: Paul taught that God's Laws were a curse to man. Equal wrote: Where, what scripture please? My response: Galatians 3:10-13 -- For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree. If you will notice in the above verses Paul changes his mind often. Steve
4/15/2015 12:16:27 AM	James vs Paul
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 67, joined Aug. 2010	Continued: I wrote: Like I wrote before it is unlikely that Peter wrote Second Peter. Equal wrote: Your not going to make any catholic friends here! You sound like countless others posting here who basically dont believe Gods word is Gods word. My response: I am not here to make Catholics or any other denomination happy. I do believe the Bible is God's Word except for the teachings some of the teachings of Paul. As I have said before some of Paul's teachings, when it agrees with the teachings of the Patriarchs of the Bible, is fine but when Paul's teachings disagrees with the Patriarchs of the Bible then Paul's writings are deceiving. __________________________________________________________________________________ I wrote: Paul said to follow him instead of saying to follow Yeshua. Equal Wrote: Got scripture to show that? My response: 1 Corinthians 4:16 King James 2000 Bible Therefore I beseech you, be followers of me. ___________________________________________________________________________________ I wrote: Paul admitted he was a liar. Paul would sometimes say he was the best/most important Apostle and at other times would say he was the least Apostle. Paul could not make up his mind, in his letters, if he was the most important Apostle or least Apostles, I guess the reason he could not make up his mind is that he was not an Apostle. Yeshua did not select Paul as an Apostle but he did choose eleven others as Apostles and the eleven others selected Matthias as an Apostle and not Paul. Religion as we know it today would be completely different if the Catholic Church has left Paul's strange/silly letters out of the Bible. Equal wrote: I see you exaggerate a lot and provide no scripture.......we should follow your word then? Paul admitted he was a liar: Romans 3:7 King James Bible For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? ____________________________________________________________________________________ I wrote: Paul would sometimes say he was the best/most important Apostle and at other times would say he was the least Apostle. Paul could not make up his mind, in his letters, if he was the most important Apostle or least Apostles, I guess the reason he could not make up his mind is that he was not an Apostle. The verses that prove me correct: 1 Corinthians 15:9 King James Bible For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. I am the worst of them (1Timothy 1:15) 2 Corinthians 11:5 King James Bible For I suppose I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles. _____________________________________________________________________________________ I wrote: Yeshua did not select Paul as an Apostle but he did choose eleven others as Apostles and the eleven others selected Matthias as an Apostle and not Paul. Religion as we know it today would be completely different if the Catholic Church has left Paul's strange/silly letters out of the Bible. Equal: I would think you understand the rest of what I wrote. Actually if you are a frequent Bible reader I am more than surprised that you needed for me to show you the actual verses that confirmed what I wrote in my last post. Steve PS: I wrote: Following the tradtions of man instead of the traditions of God is always bad. Equal wrote: Where was Paul teaching to follow mans tradition? Scripture please! My respose to Equal: You silly goose, when Paul wrote/taught things that didn't agree with the teachings of Moses, the Prophets, Yeshua and the true 12 Apostles then what Paul wrote/taught were the tradtions of man. They were simply the teachings of man/Paul and not of the Patriarchs of the Bible. Steve
4/15/2015 7:56:38 AM	James vs Paul
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 64, joined Oct. 2007	You cannot compare James with Paul. That would be like a baseball player making a ruling on a football play, within a football game, based on the rules of baseball. This thread and it's associated web sites shows a lack of understanding when it comes to Paul and the Scriptures.
4/15/2015 10:03:04 AM	James vs Paul
lookn4mym8 Kansas City, MO 42, joined Mar. 2014	I think the point Paul is making is that in no way did we earn any part of our salvation by keeping God's Law. It was 100% a gift. And I think the point James is making is that even though there is nothing we can do to pay for our past sins, we still have to repent and keep God's Law as a condition to be forgiven, as it says in Ezekiel chapter 18: "21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him:in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live." (Ezekiel 18:21-22 KJV)
4/15/2015 2:44:35 PM	James vs Paul
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 65, joined Feb. 2008	We need to distinguish between the Levitical law, which was abrogated by Jesus when He said that what entered a man didnt defile him, and the ten commandments, never abrogated by Jesus ("I came not to destroy the law but to fulfill it"). Trying to obey the Levitical law is indeed obeying the dead works of the law. Obeying the ten commandments, and having a personal prayer relationship with Jesus, is the way to happiness in this life and salvation in the next.
4/15/2015 2:49:37 PM	James vs Paul
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 65, joined Feb. 2008	What are works? What works is James talking about? James is talking about doing good works of charity for other people. What dead works is Paul talking about? The dead works of the Levitical law. Two completely different things. James and Paul do not contradict each other.
4/15/2015 3:38:59 PM	James vs Paul
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 67, joined Aug. 2010	Quote from ludlowlowell: What are works? What works is James talking about? James is talking about doing good works of charity for other people. What dead works is Paul talking about? The dead works of the Levitical law. Two completely different things. James and Paul do not contradict each other. Low wrote: What works is James talking about? My response: James is talking about us keeping Yahweh's Commandments. All of the Commandments not just the ones you want to keep. Low wrote: What dead works is Paul talking about? My response: I doubt if Paul knew what he was talking about. Paul would say one thing in one verse and say the opposite in another verse. Low, it appears to me that you always have to attempt to explain what Paul really meant to say when he really didn't say it. In other words it is like Second Peter says that Paul is often difficult to understand and his teachings will often lead one to their destruction. Most people think they have to explain to others what Paul meant to say. I have also noticed when you or others are talking about Moses, the Prophets, Yeshua or the true 12 Apostles you never have to attempt to explain what they are talking about because their teachings are clear and easy to understand. In other words their words are simple to understand. It seems to me that you worship Paul instead of Yeshua because you trust the teachings of Paul over what Yeshua taught. If I were in your position I would be very careful, cautious and start reading the Bible for myself with understanding. You appear to me to be a leaf in a high wind in that you easily get blown in a lot of different directions. Steve
4/15/2015 4:55:11 PM	James vs Paul
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 65, joined Feb. 2008	When James says "faith without works is dead" he doesn't mean the dead works of the law (the Levitical law, abrogated by Jesus Himself). James means good charitable works for our fellow human beings, feeding the hungry, visiting the sick and imprisoned, being a good father, mother, neighbor, employee, citizen, etc.
4/15/2015 6:22:59 PM	James vs Paul
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 67, joined Aug. 2010	Quote from ludlowlowell: When James says "faith without works is dead" he doesn't mean the dead works of the law (the Levitical law, abrogated by Jesus Himself). James means good charitable works for our fellow human beings, feeding the hungry, visiting the sick and imprisoned, being a good father, mother, neighbor, employee, citizen, etc. Low: I would very much like for you to show me exactly where Yeshua said that any of Yahwah's Laws were done away with. You have been preaching this for quite a long time and now you have the opportunity to show me and everyone else all your evidence. You need to prove this with the words of Moses, the Prophets, Yeshua or the true 12 Apostles and not by the strange writings of the tare Paul. Steve
4/16/2015 12:57:39 AM	James vs Paul
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 64, joined Oct. 2007	Trying to compare James with Paul shows a basic lack of understanding over the division God has made among His people. Jesus came for the Jews, not the Gentiles... CLV Mt 10:6 Yet be going rather toward the lost sheep of the house of Israel. CLV Mt 15:24 Now He, answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Peter was with the Circumcision from the beginning. Jesus gave him the keys of the church of the Circumcision in Matthew 16:18. CLV Acts 10:45 And amazed were the believers out of the Circumcision, whoever come together with Peter, seeing that on the nations also the gratuity of the holy spirit has been poured out. Paul was given the Uncircumcised (Gentiles) just as Peter the Circumcised (Jews). The Gentiles were not invited into the evangel until Paul came on the scene. CLV Galantians 2:7 But, on the contrary, perceiving that I have been entrusted with the evangel of the Uncircumcision, 8 according as Peter of the Circumcision (for He Who operates in Peter for the apostleship of the Circumcision operates in me also for the nations), Paul - Uncircumcision (akrobustia) Peter - Circumcision (peritome) And James is part of the Circumcision... CLV James 1:1 James, a slave of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes in the dispersion. Rejoice! His message was to the 12 tribes of Israel, not to the Gentiles. tnt and the Catholic church have to ignore these verses because they do not fit into their little scenarios and they do not understand them. See my thread... The Gospel of the Uncircumcision https://DateHookup.dating/Thread-895199.htm
4/16/2015 11:03:35 AM	James vs Paul
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 65, joined Feb. 2008	Tnt, when Jesus said that nothing that entereth a man defiled him, Jesus in effect repealed the Levitical law.
4/16/2015 6:10:05 PM	James vs Paul
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 67, joined Aug. 2010	Quote from bigd9832: Trying to compare James with Paul shows a basic lack of understanding over the division God has made among His people. Jesus came for the Jews, not the Gentiles... CLV Mt 10:6 Yet be going rather toward the lost sheep of the house of Israel. CLV Mt 15:24 Now He, answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Peter was with the Circumcision from the beginning. Jesus gave him the keys of the church of the Circumcision in Matthew 16:18. CLV Acts 10:45 And amazed were the believers out of the Circumcision, whoever come together with Peter, seeing that on the nations also the gratuity of the holy spirit has been poured out. Paul was given the Uncircumcised (Gentiles) just as Peter the Circumcised (Jews). The Gentiles were not invited into the evangel until Paul came on the scene. CLV Galantians 2:7 But, on the contrary, perceiving that I have been entrusted with the evangel of the Uncircumcision, 8 according as Peter of the Circumcision (for He Who operates in Peter for the apostleship of the Circumcision operates in me also for the nations), Paul - Uncircumcision (akrobustia) Peter - Circumcision (peritome) And James is part of the Circumcision... CLV James 1:1 James, a slave of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes in the dispersion. Rejoice! His message was to the 12 tribes of Israel, not to the Gentiles. tnt and the Catholic church have to ignore these verses because they do not fit into their little scenarios and they do not understand them. See my thread... The Gospel of the Uncircumcision https://DateHookup.dating/Thread-895199.htm Big: I have talked about who I think the 10 Lost Tribes of Israel actually are. If you will notice the promise God gave to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the twelve Tribes of Jacob was that they would be as the sand of the sea which is so many that they are uncountable for the most part. He also said they would be blessed more than any other group of people on the Earth. I think the people of Jerusalem, for the most part, are not descendants of the 12 Tribes of Jacob but are the offspring of Cain. They very much want to be considered the descendants of the 12 Tribes of Jacob. I would guess there are a very few descendants of the 12 Tribes Of Jacob left in Jerusalem. It is also my belief that God was correct when He said the twelve tribes would be as the sand of the sea and would be highly blessed. The people of Europe, the United States and Canada appear to me to have this blessing bestowed upon them as to being a as the sand of the sea as well as being the most blessed people on the Earth. If you will do just a little research I think you will find that I am right on target with my belief as to who the Lost Ten Tribes of Jacob actually are. If it were not for the United States supplying money and weapons then Jerusalem would not be able to continue to exist and that doesn't speak well of Jerusalem as to a major blessing being on them from God. I understand some truths that fit the Bible very well and beliefs either fit the Bible or they do not fit. I am steadfast in my beliefs but if someone can prove by using God's Word that I am incorrect then I will change my beliefs. I very much want to know what the truths of the Bible really are. There are many keys that most don't seem to understand about the Bible and without those keys the Bible is never going to be properly understood. Steve
4/16/2015 6:14:56 PM	James vs Paul
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 67, joined Aug. 2010	Quote from ludlowlowell: We need to distinguish between the Levitical law, which was abrogated by Jesus when He said that what entered a man didnt defile him, and the ten commandments, never abrogated by Jesus ("I came not to destroy the law but to fulfill it"). Trying to obey the Levitical law is indeed obeying the dead works of the law. Obeying the ten commandments, and having a personal prayer relationship with Jesus, is the way to happiness in this life and salvation in the next. Low: I will ask you this question again. You are welcome to get any of your Catholic Friends, Priests or Bishops to answer the question for you. Here is the question: Low: I would very much like for you to show me exactly where Yeshua said that any of Yahwah's Laws were done away with. You have been preaching this for quite a long time and now you have the opportunity to show me and everyone else all your evidence. You need to prove this with the words of Moses, the Prophets, Yeshua or the true 12 Apostles and not by the strange letters/writings of the tare Paul. Steve
4/16/2015 7:32:05 PM	James vs Paul
kb2222 Jacksonville, FL 77, joined Apr. 2011	Quote from tnteacher101: Low: I will ask you this question again. You are welcome to get any of your Catholic Friends, Priests or Bishops to answer the question for you. Here is the question: Low: I would very much like for you to show me exactly where Yeshua said that any of Yahwah's Laws were done away with. You have been preaching this for quite a long time and now you have the opportunity to show me and everyone else all your evidence. You need to prove this with the words of Moses, the Prophets, Yeshua or the true 12 Apostles and not by the strange letters/writings of the tare Paul. Steve All those murderous laws were not God's laws. They were the laws of the Levite Priests and Jesus renounced them with His teachings of the Fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man among other things and especially when He taught that we should "Do unto others as we would have others do unto us." That's the "Golden Rule." You know about the "Golden Rule" don't you, Steve? You don't still believe it is righteous and godly to stone and burn people to death at the stake, do you?
4/16/2015 7:33:29 PM	James vs Paul
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 64, joined Oct. 2007	Quote from tnteacher101: Big: I have talked about who I think the 10 Lost Tribes of Israel actually are. Ah yes. I remember. I also remember that it made no sense. And of course there is the evidence that is lacking. Quote from tnteacher101: I think the people of Jerusalem, for the most part, are not descendants of the 12 Tribes of Jacob but are the offspring of Cain. Of course there is no way you could know that. And you have not supported this crazy theory with any evidence. Quote from tnteacher101: If you will do just a little research I think you will find that I am right on target with my belief as to who the Lost Ten Tribes of Jacob actually are. I have been researching the Bible for most of my life. There is no research that will convince me of what you say is true. All I can see is that you are jumping to conclusions. Quote from tnteacher101: I understand some truths that fit the Bible very well and beliefs either fit the Bible or they do not fit. I am steadfast in my beliefs but if someone can prove by using God's Word that I am incorrect then I will change my beliefs. I am not sure what you think "proof" is. You, of course, have not provided any yourself. You theory about eve being seduced by the serpent is pretty out there and again, you have provided no evidence.
4/16/2015 7:34:58 PM	James vs Paul
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 67, joined Aug. 2010	Quote from kb2222: All those murderous laws were not God's laws. They were the laws of the Levite Priests and Jesus renounced them with His teachings of the Fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man among other things and especially when He taught that we should "Do unto others as we would have others do unto us." That's the "Golden Rule." You know about the "Golden Rule" don't you, Steve? You don't still believe it is righteous and godly to stone and burn people to death at the stake, do you? KB: You need to understand that Yeshua plainly said He did not come to do away with one jot or tittle of God's Law. God laws were the same yesterday, today and forever. What part of those sentences don't you understand? Steve
4/16/2015 7:54:30 PM	James vs Paul
kb2222 Jacksonville, FL 77, joined Apr. 2011	Quote from tnteacher101: KB: You need to understand that Yeshua plainly said He did not come to do away with one jot or tittle of God's Law. God laws were the same yesterday, today and forever. What part of those sentences don't you understand? Steve Why don't you answer my question, Steve? And how do you reconcile all these murderous laws continuing as you assert with obeying the Golden Rule that Jesus taught?
4/16/2015 8:05:03 PM	James vs Paul
kb2222 Jacksonville, FL 77, joined Apr. 2011	Lets look at Matthew 5 King James Version (KJV) And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: 2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying, 3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. 5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. 6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. 7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. 8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. 9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. 10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. 12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. 13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. 14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. 15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. ~~~~~~~ Why do you think when Jesus said "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled" that Jesus was talking about all the OT murderous laws and not the laws of blessedness He just got through speaking about in verse 3-12?
4/16/2015 10:21:47 PM	James vs Paul
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 67, joined Aug. 2010	Who Are The Kenites? 1Chronicles 2:55 1Ch 2:55 And the families of the scribes which dwelt at Jabez; the Tirathites, the Shimeathites, [and] Suchathites. These [are] the Kenites that came of Hemath, the father of the house of Rechab. This word Kenites in the Hebrew is the Strong's Concordance number 7017 and 7014. Below are the meanings of this word in the Hebrew. 7017--patron. from 7014; a Kenite or member of the tribe of Kajin:--Kenite. 7014-- the same as 7013 ( with a play upon the affinity of 7069); Kajin, the name of the first child, also a place in Pal. and of an Oriental tribe: -Cain, Kenites. Cain in the Hebrew is 7014 also which further denotes the fact that we are speaking of Cain the first child the father of the kenites. That is why 7017 says a member of the tribe of Kajin which is Cain. Cain is the father of the kenite tribe or family. With that being said and clarified, lets now go on further and check out just who is the father of Cain and you will begin to see why he was so evil and could kill / murder his brother Abel. As well as why the kenites / those who claim to be of our brother Judah or a Jew and or not could kill Christ. Genesis 3:1-16 Who is Cain's Father? Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? This word serpent in the Hebrew means a hiss of a snake or a whisper or magic spell and enchanter. Subtil means more cunning and crafty usually in a bad sense. This serpent is none other than Satan himself, as noted in 2Corinthians 11:1-3 below where the word serpent in the Greek means satan and these very verses are referring to what happened here in Genesis 3 with Eve. And how satan beguiled or holy seduced and slept with Eve, for the word beguiled in the Greek means to Holy seduce. 2Corinthians 11:1-3 2Cr 11:1 Would to God ye could bear with me a little in [my] folly: and indeed bear with me. 2Cr 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present [you as] a chaste virgin to Christ. 2Cr 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. Even Paul taught about what happened between Eve and satan. He knew she was seduced by satan. Satan is asking Eve [for snakes cannot talk] hath God said ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? Bear in mind trees in the bible are symbolic of people. In this garden we had trees good for food, as well as the tree of life [ which is Christ] and also the the tree of knowledge of good and evil [satan], as noted in Genesis 2:9. Satan is going to tempt Eve to disobey God, just as he will us today if we do not stay sharp in God's word. Satan is a charmer who will attempt to charm you with lies that sound so right, yet they do not align with God's word. Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. This is speaking of satan / the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, as noted in Genesis 2:16-17. Only satan could teach one evil ways. And satan is very wise and knows God's word better than most christians. only problem is he twist God's word to mislead people, as he attempted to do to Christ in Matthew 4. Even satan knows there is but one God, as noted in James 2:19 and trys to keep people uneducated about that one true God. This word touch in the Hebrew means to lay the hand upon (for any purpose; euphem., to lie with a woman). Listening to satan's lies kills one spiritually to understanding the true word of God. We will see further on in this chapter that Eve did not eat an apple, but rather slept with satan and from that came Cain. This is why Cain is not mentioned in Adam's geneology in Genesis 5. Abel isn't mentioned for he was murdered and did not live long enough to produce an offspring. Cain has his own geneology in Genesis 4:16-24. Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: Here we have satan tempting and trying to charm Eve to disobey God's word telling her you won't die like God said you would. This is satan's MO [ method of operation]. He is a charmer and trys to say it is o.k. if we twist God's word a little here and a little there so we can do as we like. Watch out. Do not be fooled by satan and only believe God's word. Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. Satan is lying here. For to listen to satan and his lies, closes ones eyes to the truth of God's word and makes one listen to evil instead of God and that which is good. Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree [was] good for food, and that it [was] pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make [one] wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. Eve allowed satan to snow her under with lies and she found him to be one handsome dude. She not only listened to satan's lies, but slept with him also as you'll see in a few more verses for their is a conception spoken of in a few more verses. He not only deceived Eve, but slept with Adam also [in my opinion]. For there is no mention of Adam knowing [sleeping with] Eve until Genesis 4:1, which took place AFTER she slept with satan and conceived Cain. Eve gave birth to twins and they had different fathers. This still today is medically possible and has happened. Lets take a closer look at Genesis 4:1-2. Gen4:1 AND Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. When Eve gave birth she had twins. Cain was born first from Eve's first conception with satan. Yes she did get a child from the LORD, for all babies are a gift from God, but this does not change the fact that Cain was satan's son, as we will further document in this study. Gen 4:2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. Again in the Hebrew means she continued in labour. So here we see that Cain and Abel were twins with different fathers. That is why Cain was so evil and could kill his own brother. Source: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1207828/posts Steve
4/16/2015 10:25:24 PM	James vs Paul
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 67, joined Aug. 2010	Continued: It was not eating an apple that made God angry [no apple even mentioned here], but Adam and Eve listening to satan's lies sleeping with satan. Satan through this was trying to corrupt the seedline in which Christ would come through to attempt to disrupt God's overall plan of salvation and Christ being born. Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they [were] naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. They were not trying to cover their mouth, but their private parts to attempt to cover up what they had done. Gen 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden. Trying to cover their sin. Gen 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where [art] thou? Gen 3:10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I [was] naked; and I hid myself. Adam confessed to knowing he was naked and that he was afraid of God for he had partook of the tree God told them not to touch. Gen 3:11 And he said, Who told thee that thou [wast] naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat? God is coming down on Adam for being disobedient to Him and listening to satan and allowing satan to deceive them. Just as today God does not like it when we allow satan to mislead us with false doctrine, that causes us to wh*re around with traditions of men instead of God's word. Gen 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest [to be] with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. Here we have Adam explaining why he slept with satan and was seduced by him. Adam here saying Eve talked me into it. LOL Trying to place all the blame on Eve. If someone misleads us, it is because WE ALLOW IT to happen. Still Adam should not have fallen for it. Never go with the majority and ALWAYS study God's word and think for yourself. Gen 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What [is] this [that] thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat. Here we have Eve explaining to God that satan had seduced her, which is what beguiled means. This is also what Paul was warning us of in 2Corinthians 11:1-3. Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou [art] cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: Here we have God coming down on satan for seducing Eve. This just means satan is lower than a snakes belly. He is cursed and never going to amount to anything for he will ultimately be cast into the lake of fire. Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Seed here means child in the Hebrew. We know it is not physical seed like to plant in a garden, for seeds in a garden do not have enmity towards one another but flesh children do. This is why Cain hated and killed Abel. He was satan's seed / child. Abel was Eve and Adam's child. Also this refers to the fact that Christ would come through the lineage of Adam and Eve down the line and that satan through Cain's offspring the Kenites would bruise Christ heel on the cross and kill him. And in the end of this final generation Christ will throw satan into the lake of fire and use His elect to bruise satan's head by teaching God's word / truth to refute satan's lies. Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. Here we have conception mentioned. God is going to allow her to be pregnant by this evil one. Remember she has yet to sleep with Adam. Now we will go to St.John to further document who Cain's offspring were. St.John 8:33-47 Jhn 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; This word continue in the Greek means to abide or dwell in. Christ is telling those of Judah as well as us today who do believe in Him and abide in His word, that they are His disciples indeed. However, there are the Kenites who claim to be of Judah or Jews, but are not but are of satan, as noted in Revelation 2:9 to the church of Smyrna below: Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Jhn 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. Those who seek God's word and follow Christ the Living Word, shall know the truth and shall be free from deception and lies that put some in bondage. Jhn 8:33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? Here we have the ones who claim to be of Judah the Kenites answering Christ back. They are in bondage all right to satan. Just as man today by false teaching have been put in bondage and do not realize it and think they are in good standing with God. Jhn 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. Jhn 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: [but] the Son abideth ever. Christ is the Living Word and it is forever and never changes, as noted in Hebrews 13:8. Jhn 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. Jhn 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. I feel this should be translated I know YE SAY ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. For the next few verses from Christ will make that clear, for Christ himself is about to tell us these are not of God, but of satan. These are Kenites sons of Cain the first murderer. Looks like murder is a family trait doesn't it? Jhn 8:38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. Notice the capitial F in Father for God and the small f in the second father denoting not God, but satan. Christ is saying your traits are that of satan your father. Notice here that these kenites sons of Cain off spring of Satan's son, are trying to convince Christ himself they are of God. Don't think if they tried this with Christ himself, that they want go around to this day claiming to be Jews or christians of God and do satan's work. This is their MO [method of operation]. Jhn 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. By their fruits ye shall know them. If they do not the works of God and those God sent that taught God's word, then they are not of God. Christ wasn't stupid and did not fall for their lies. And neither should we today. Not all false teachers are Kenites, but some false teachers have merely been deceived by the Kenites teaching and think it is God's word, so therefore they continue to help spread the lies. Again the source: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1207828/posts Steve
4/17/2015 2:25:32 AM	James vs Paul
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 64, joined Oct. 2007	tnt... You post all this stuff from a web site that you ripped off, but none of it can be considered "proof." It is just theory based on theory.
4/17/2015 8:12:32 AM	James vs Paul
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 67, joined Aug. 2010	Article continued: Jhn 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. Christ knew they wanted to murder Him. They could lie all they wanted to, but Christ could read their mind. Abraham nor any of the children of God would have sought to kill Christ. Only someone of satan's offspring would want to do such a thing. Jhn 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, [even] God. Here we have Christ for the 2nd time confronting them telling them exactly who they are. Just as we today should study God's word, and know what does and does not align with God's word, whereby noone can mislead us. Jhn 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Again Christ calling a spade a spade. If they loved God they would have also loved His only begotten Son. They did not love Christ but wanted to murder Him. Jhn 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. This word hear in the Greek means to hear God's word with understanding. They could not understand Christ speech/ word, because they were not of God, as Christ himself is about to tell us in the next verse. Jhn 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. Here Christ tells them for the 3rd time for emphasis that they ARE NOT of God, but are of their father satan in the sense that Cain's father was Satan. He/ Cain was the first murderer in the beginning. Satan and his son Cain and Cain's offspring the Kenites are liars, as stated here by Christ the Living Word Himself. Jhn 8:45 And because I tell [you] the truth, ye believe me not. Liars usually do not accept the truth. Jhn 8:46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? Christ commited no sin. These were trying to find a reason to kill Him to make themselves look squeaky clean and innocent. See how subtil and cunning satan and his offspring are. They lie and swear it is the truth and twist God's words. They kill many spiritually today by teachings lies instead of God's word. This is why one should always check ALL men out in God's word and allow noone to mislead you. There are still Kenites out there and then there are those who teach falsely who have themselves been mislead by the Kenlies and do not realize it. Jhn 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God. There for the fourth time Christ tells them and us today they are not of God. They are murderers. Offspring of the devil and sons of Cain the first murderer. 1John 3:11-12 1Jo 3:11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. 1Jo 3:12 Not as Cain, [who] was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous. This verse 12 here states specifically that Cain was of that wicked one which is none other than satan. This is why Cain could murder Abel. For he was the son that wicked one and was wicked also. The wicked one is satan. Revelation 2:8-9 Rev 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive: Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but [are] the synagogue of Satan. Here Christ tells us that there are some / Kenites who claim to be of Judah or Jews, and are not, but are of Satan and are Satan's offspring which would be the sons of Cain / Kenites, for Cain was satan's son and the Kenites are the offspring of Cain. This will be further documented in the verses below that cover the parable of the tares. Revelation 3:9 Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. Here again a 2nd witness from Christ that indeed there are some who claim to be Jews and are not but are of satan. Last but not least Christ also warned us of these offspring of satan in the parable of the tares, as noted in Matthew 13:24-30 and Matthew 13:36-43. Matthew 13:24-30 Parable Of The Tares Mat 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: This word seed in the following verses in the Greek means : #4690. Sperma; something sown, seed (including the male "sperm"); by implied offspring; specifically a remnant (fig. as if kept over for planting): issue, seed. We are talking about the sperm / seed planted in the garden with Eve and satan as you will see when we finish this parable of the tares. Tares are symbolic of the Kenites, who claim to be Jews or children of God and are not but are of satan. Mat 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. Enemy in the Greek means: 2190. ekh-thros; (to hate); hateful (pass. odious, or act hostile); usually as a noun, an adversary (especially Satan):- enemy, foe. Many today are spiritually asleep to the true word of God and the enemy / satan works overtime pumping man's traditions into them and they don't even realize it for they have been blinded and lulled off to sleep by man's traditions. Satan through sleeping with Eve sowed the evil children / tares / Kenites among the children of God. This would have never happened, had Eve listened to God and did not touch/ sleep with the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, which was none other than satan himself. Again the source of the article: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1207828/posts Steve
4/17/2015 8:49:05 AM	James vs Paul
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 67, joined Aug. 2010	This is the last part of the Article: Mat 13:26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. These tares looked alot like wheat till full grown. We are to test the fruit or what man teaches to see if it aligns with God's word or not. If it does not then it is not of God. Many people look christianly and say they are christians, but are they really? Are they teaching what aligns with God's word? By their fruits ye shall know them, as noted in Matthew 7:15-20. Especially verse 20. Mat 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? Symbolic of God's children asking God didn't He sow only good seed or children? And why are there tares / Kenites then? See those who are truly children of God and know God's word, will be able to recognize and discern between God's word and man's and those who are called of God to teach and those who are not. They also can discern the ways of a Kenite and when one is furthering satan's doctrine rather than God's word. Mat 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? God is telling us here that satan the enemy hath done this. The children of God asking do you want us to get rid of them? Mat 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. God said NO do not get rid of the tares / Kenites lest you uproot the children of God also. You see many of God's children are so intertwined in the Kenites false doctrine that it is so hard to tell who is a GENUINE Kenite or offspring of satan and who is just an innocent child of God that has gotten themselves caught up in man's traditions. Even a Kenite can be converted, if they turn to God and leave their father satan's lies. This is why we are to share God's word and let God through His word open the eyes of His children to false teachings and gently bring them back to Father's word and teach them to study for themselves and check ALL men out in God's word. This is how one breaks the hold of the Kenites teaching. Not by attacking the Kenites and stooping to their level. Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. Harvest time is when Christ returns AFTER the antichrist reign where satan plays or pretends He is Christ come to rapture you away. As further documented in this study The Truth About The Rapture Theory. Those who flock to the antichrist thinking they are flying out of here will be gathered with the tares in danger of hell fire, if they do not open their eyes to the true God during the millenium reign spoken of in Revelation 20. God is against the rapture theory or fly away teaching, as noted in Ezekiel 13:20. Matthew 13:36-43 Explanation Of The Parable Of The Tares Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. Christ speaking only to His disciples here. The majority do not always hear God's word. Only those God feels can handle it at that time. Or as most call them God's elect Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; God is the Father of the good seed/ children. Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one]; Here we have it again. The tares are the children of the wicked one, just as Cain was, because they are Cain's offspring which are known as the Kenites. Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. Christ tells us point blank the enemy is the devil, not a snake or serpent. This happened when Eve slept with satan and conceived Cain the evil one who murdered Abel. Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. God is going to cast all the tares and those who follow the tares into the lake of fire, IF they do not get their act together by the end of the millenium reign mentioned in Revelation 20. Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. This will happen on judgment day. So sad that some would choose to follow the kenite or satanic ways that will lead them to hell. Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. Then shall the righteous have eternal life forever with God. Not all have ears to hear. Do you? Can you hear what Father is telling you in this parable? Be sharp and be wiser than satan for he is out to mislead and deceive and spiritually impregnate you with his lies, just as he physically impregnated Eve to try and prevent the Christ child from eventually being born. Today satan uses lies to try and prevent God's children from knowing the true Christ the Living Word of God. And again the source of the article: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1207828/posts Equal: You may say this article is a total waste of your time but it is my opinion that you and everyone else need to be well aware of in order to grasp the truth of this very important key. The author of this article used plenty of Bible verses so even simple minded people should be able to grasp this important information. What really happened in the Garden of Eden that caused Adam and Eve to get banned/expelled is one of the true keys/truths we need in order to understand the rest of the Bible. People that don't understand that the devil beguiled/seduced Eve and instead thinks he beguiled her/them with a piece of fruit/apple is simply living in a fairy land and make believe world. The time is late and it is time to sharpen up more than a little so that we can be fully aware of what is coming down the pike. The devil loves it when we are not able/capable of figuring out the truths/keys of the Bible so that we can truly undersand God's Word. I guess the Bible was often writen in parables so that some of us would have to dig and dig deep to uncover those truths that are hidden there. Some appear to not be that talented/skilled in using a pick and shovel. Steve
4/17/2015 12:32:34 PM	James vs Paul
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 64, joined Oct. 2007	More BS... Yawn
4/17/2015 12:51:51 PM	James vs Paul
kb2222 Jacksonville, FL 77, joined Apr. 2011	I agree with bigd9832. "More BS... Yawn" How about cutting out the BS and responding to my last two posts to you, Steve.
4/17/2015 3:07:53 PM	James vs Paul
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 67, joined Aug. 2010	Quote from bigd9832: More BS... Yawn Big: The Bible plainly tells us that some don't have ears to hear or eyes to see. It also tells us to not cast our pearls among swine. I guess heaten folks will not be able to understand the important truths of God's Word. Steve
4/17/2015 3:19:05 PM	James vs Paul
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 67, joined Aug. 2010	Quote from kb2222: I agree with bigd9832. "More BS... Yawn" How about cutting out the BS and responding to my last two posts to you, Steve. KB: You are so far behind in understanding the truths of the Bible that it is going to be more than difficult for anyone to be of any assistance to you on getting you on the right track of God's Word. It appears that you have been beguiled/seduced by the devil and it is going to take lots of effort on your part to even begin to start catching up. I have always answered your silly questions but you always shy/back away from any questions I or anyone else ask you. I guess the reason most people won't respond to your posts is because you are so deeply mired up in untruths of the Bible. I would recommend you start reading the Bible in Genesis and only finish when you get to the end of Revelation. It is my view that you need a total overhaul/rebuild as to what you believe about the Bible. It would be difficult to imagine anyone being in the state you are in as far as understand God's Word. Steve
4/17/2015 4:06:27 PM	James vs Paul
kb2222 Jacksonville, FL 77, joined Apr. 2011	Quote from tnteacher101: KB: You are so far behind in understanding the truths of the Bible that it is going to be more than difficult for anyone to be of any assistance to you on getting you on the right track of God's Word. It appears that you have been beguiled/seduced by the devil and it is going to take lots of effort on your part to even begin to start catching up. I have always answered your silly questions but you always shy/back away from any questions I or anyone else ask you. I guess the reason most people won't respond to your posts is because you are so deeply mired up in untruths of the Bible. I would recommend you start reading the Bible in Genesis and only finish when you get to the end of Revelation. It is my view that you need a total overhaul/rebuild as to what you believe about the Bible. It would be difficult to imagine anyone being in the state you are in as far as understand God's Word. Steve Stop with your BS and lying, Steve, you haven't answered my questions. As I said: All those murderous laws were not God's laws. They were the laws of the Levite Priests and Jesus renounced them with His teachings of the Fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man among other things and especially when He taught that we should "Do unto others as we would have others do unto us." That's the "Golden Rule." You know about the "Golden Rule" don't you, Steve? You don't still believe it is righteous and godly to stone and burn people to death at the stake, do you? How do you reconcile all these murderous laws continuing as you assert with obeying the Golden Rule that Jesus taught? Why do you think when Jesus said "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled" that Jesus was talking about all the OT murderous laws and not the laws of blessedness He just got through speaking about in verse 3-12 that I posted? Stop with your BS and lying, Steve, and answer my questions.
4/17/2015 4:43:49 PM	James vs Paul
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 64, joined Oct. 2007	Quote from tnteacher101: Big: The Bible plainly tells us that some don't have ears to hear or eyes to see. It also tells us to not cast our pearls among swine. I guess heaten folks will not be able to understand the important truths of God's Word. Right. And the same could be said for you. The Bible clearly tells us that some have been beguiled by false teachers... CLV 2Pt 2:1 Yet there came to be false prophets also among the people, as among you also there will be false teachers who will be smuggling in destructive sects, even disowning the Owner Who buys them, bringing on themselves swift destruction.
4/17/2015 6:52:29 PM	James vs Paul
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 67, joined Aug. 2010	Quote from bigd9832: Right. And the same could be said for you. The Bible clearly tells us that some have been beguiled by false teachers... CLV 2Pt 2:1 Yet there came to be false prophets also among the people, as among you also there will be false teachers who will be smuggling in destructive sects, even disowning the Owner Who buys them, bringing on themselves swift destruction. Big: We are both set in our ways and beliefs. It is not looking like we will ever agree on one thing. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. Steve
4/17/2015 7:02:07 PM	James vs Paul
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 67, joined Aug. 2010	Quote from kb2222: Stop with your BS and lying, Steve, you haven't answered my questions. As I said: All those murderous laws were not God's laws. They were the laws of the Levite Priests and Jesus renounced them with His teachings of the Fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man among other things and especially when He taught that we should "Do unto others as we would have others do unto us." That's the "Golden Rule." You know about the "Golden Rule" don't you, Steve? You don't still believe it is righteous and godly to stone and burn people to death at the stake, do you? How do you reconcile all these murderous laws continuing as you assert with obeying the Golden Rule that Jesus taught? Why do you think when Jesus said "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled" that Jesus was talking about all the OT murderous laws and not the laws of blessedness He just got through speaking about in verse 3-12 that I posted? Stop with your BS and lying, Steve, and answer my questions. KB: You keep being mean and bad mouthing everyone on this site. We should be the ones bad mouthing you because of your strange beliefs but I guess we are too kind and Christian like to be that way. I also guess we prefer to not stood down to your level. I would think we would have to stoop really low to get down to the level that you seem/appear to be at. I guess it would be kind of like me jumping into a hog pen to wrestle and get even with a dirty hog. I am fully capable of it and could do it without any problem but I normally prefer to stay out of such a smelly and messy environment. Steve
4/17/2015 7:19:58 PM	James vs Paul
kb2222 Jacksonville, FL 77, joined Apr. 2011	Quote from tnteacher101: KB: You keep being mean and bad mouthing everyone on this site. We should be the ones bad mouthing you because of your strange beliefs but I guess we are too kind and Christian like to be that way. I also guess we prefer to not stood down to your level. I would think we would have to stoop really low to get down to the level that you seem/appear to be at. I guess it would be kind of like me jumping into a hog pen to wrestle and get even with a dirty hog. I am fully capable of it and could do it without any problem but I normally prefer to stay out of such a smelly and messy environment. Steve You are one screwed-up and corrupt person, Steve. Satan has got you in his grasp. You can't stand the truth if it doesn't serve your warped mind.
4/17/2015 8:44:54 PM	James vs Paul
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 67, joined Aug. 2010	Quote from kb2222: You are one screwed-up and corrupt person, Steve. Satan has got you in his grasp. You can't stand the truth if it doesn't serve your warped mind. KB: Sometimes it appears to me that you are in a state of confusion. You need to simply snap out of it. Always pay close attention to what I am teaching you about the Bible and maybe you will start making some progress in your understanding of God's Word. Steve
4/17/2015 9:56:16 PM	James vs Paul
kb2222 Jacksonville, FL 77, joined Apr. 2011	You are one screwed-up and corrupt person, Steve. Satan has got you in his grasp. You can't stand the truth if it doesn't serve your warped mind. Anyone such as you that advocates "Christians" start pleasing God by stoning and burning to death people for all the OT reasons for doing so is clearly a deranged sociopath who should be institutionalized.
4/17/2015 10:12:40 PM	James vs Paul
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 67, joined Aug. 2010	Quote from kb2222: You are one screwed-up and corrupt person, Steve. Satan has got you in his grasp. You can't stand the truth if it doesn't serve your warped mind. Anyone such as you that advocates "Christians" start pleasing God by stoning and burning to death people for all the OT reasons for doing so is clearly a deranged sociopath who should be institutionalized. KB: I want to ask you a personal question. Are you on any type of illegal drugs? You behavior seems to not be in the normal category. Steve
4/17/2015 10:23:14 PM	James vs Paul
kb2222 Jacksonville, FL 77, joined Apr. 2011	You are so corrupt you don't realize (or don't care) that you are destroying yourself.
4/17/2015 10:42:35 PM	James vs Paul
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 67, joined Aug. 2010	Quote from kb2222: You are so corrupt you don't realize (or don't care) that you are destroying yourself. KB: You never, ever, answer any questions anyone asks you. Are you embarrassed to answer? Steve
4/18/2015 11:17:41 AM	James vs Paul
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 64, joined Oct. 2007	Quote from tnteacher101: Big: We are both set in our ways and beliefs. It is not looking like we will ever agree on one thing. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. Maybe. But I will always consider your theories to be unsupported.
4/18/2015 12:30:03 PM	James vs Paul
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 67, joined Aug. 2010	Quote from bigd9832: Maybe. But I will always consider your theories to be unsupported. Big: Well in that case you will always be wrong. Steve
4/18/2015 12:51:34 PM	James vs Paul
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 64, joined Oct. 2007
4/18/2015 1:36:01 PM	James vs Paul
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 67, joined Aug. 2010	Quote from bigd9832: Big: I am happy to see that you surrendered and was able to do it with a smile instead of a frown. With all the evidence I have used to support my beliefs I guess you were somewhat overwhelmed and finally decided I was correct all along. Steve
4/18/2015 3:44:30 PM	James vs Paul
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 64, joined Oct. 2007	Quote from tnteacher101: With all the evidence I have used to support my beliefs I guess you were somewhat overwhelmed and finally decided I was correct all along. What evidence? James is associated with the Circumcision. Paul with the Uncircumcision. There is no way you can compare them.
4/23/2015 11:45:21 AM	James vs Paul
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 65, joined Feb. 2008	Bigd, you might be right for the wrong reason here. Actually, Paul and James are in agreement that the Levitical law is abrogated but the ten commandments still stand.
4/23/2015 12:07:55 PM	James vs Paul
kb2222 Jacksonville, FL 77, joined Apr. 2011	Quote from ludlowlowell: Bigd, you might be right for the wrong reason here. Actually, Paul and James are in agreement that the Levitical law is abrogated but the ten commandments still stand. All those murderous laws in the OT were not God's laws. They were the laws of the Levite Priests who wanted to kill people if they disobeyed what the Priest said. Jesus came into the world to "bear witness unto the truth", to lift mankind out of such wickedness and spiritual darkness, and He most certainly renounced all of these murderous laws with His teachings of the Fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man and especially when He taught that we should "Do unto others as we would have others do unto us." That's the "Golden Rule." You know about the "Golden Rule" don't you, Ludlow? You are not still in spiritual darkness, are you, Ludlow? You don't still believe it is righteous and godly to stone and burn people to death at the stake if they disobey the Priest? Or work on the Sabbath? Or curse their parents, etc., etc., do you? All those murderous laws in the OT were not God's laws. They were the laws of the Levite Priests who wanted to kill people if they disobeyed what the Priest said. God is not righteous one day and wicked the next. God does not command man NOT to kill and then turn around and give man all kinds of reasons for killing people. You church indoctrinated book believers are going to your grave and to Judgment having murderous beliefs and teachings about God in rejection of the teachings of Jesus if you don't wake up and start thinking out of the box of book worship.
4/23/2015 12:19:59 PM	James vs Paul
kb2222 Jacksonville, FL 77, joined Apr. 2011	Correction Matthew 7:12 [Golden Rule] Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
4/23/2015 12:32:20 PM	James vs Paul
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 67, joined Aug. 2010	Quote from ludlowlowell: Bigd, you might be right for the wrong reason here. Actually, Paul and James are in agreement that the Levitical law is abrogated but the ten commandments still stand. Low or Big or anyone else: Show me one place in the entire Bible where Moses, the Prophets, Yeshua or any of the true 12 Apostles said that the Laws of the Torah were done away with. Simply stated: When Yeshua or the 12 Apostles were talking about God's Laws and Commandments they were talking about all of God's Laws, Commandments and of course this included the Torah. Some appear so deeply entwined/entrenched in the traditions of man that the Tradtions of God have often been overlooked. Steve
4/23/2015 12:55:39 PM	James vs Paul
kb2222 Jacksonville, FL 77, joined Apr. 2011	Quote from tnteacher101: Low or Big or anyone else: Show me one place in the entire Bible where Moses, the Prophets, Yeshua or any of the true 12 Apostles said that the Laws of the Torah were done away with. Simply stated: When Yeshua or the 12 Apostles were talking about God's Laws and Commandments they were talking about all of God's Laws, Commandments and of course this included the Torah. Some appear so deeply entwined/entrenched in the traditions of man that the Tradtions of God have often been overlooked. Steve Your problem is a BIG problem, Steve, and imho, a DAMNING problem. You apparently reject the teachings of Jesus and believe like the murderous Levite Priests (Pharisees) who killed Him.
4/23/2015 2:34:09 PM	James vs Paul
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 67, joined Aug. 2010	Quote from kb2222: Your problem is a BIG problem, Steve, and imho, a DAMNING problem. You apparently reject the teachings of Jesus and believe like the murderous Levite Priests (Pharisees) who killed Him. KB: I am simply right and you are simply wrong. Anyone that says that God's Word is totally incorrect or mostly incorrect is living in a deep cloud of denial and poor judgement. I am not saying everything that is written in the Bible is totally correct but it is the very best we have. As you well know I disagree with Paul when he taught/wrote things that opposed the teachings of Moses, the Prophets, Yehsua and the true 12 Apostles. Yeshua and the 12 Apostles never disagreed with the teachings of Moses or the Prophets. You need to start listening instead of rambling on and on all the time. Steve
4/23/2015 3:14:15 PM	James vs Paul
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 65, joined Feb. 2008	Kb, all those laws you object to were part of the Levitical law,.abrogated by Jesus when Jesus said that it is not what goes into a man, but what comes out of him that defiles him (Matthew 15:11). Tnt, there is the answer to your question. Up until the time Jesus said this, eating pork and shellfish, refusing to circumcise baby boys, wearing clothes made of two different fabrics, starting fires on Saturday, and failing to stone one's fellow Jew for not keeping all of the above (let's keep in mind that the Levitical law, unlike the ten commandments, applied to the Jews only), defiled a man. After Jesus said what He said at Matthew 15:11, none of these things defiled a man anymore. The pharisees knew what Jesus meant. The very next verse (verse 12) tells us that they were scandalized. Jesus went on to say that the real law breaking was dling things like murder, adultery,.fornication,.stealing, false witness, blasphemy. "As for eating with unwashed hands," Jesus says at verse 20, "that makes no man impure".
4/23/2015 4:56:57 PM	James vs Paul
kb2222 Jacksonville, FL 77, joined Apr. 2011	Quote from tnteacher101: KB: I am simply right and you are simply wrong. Anyone that says that God's Word is totally incorrect or mostly incorrect is living in a deep cloud of denial and poor judgement. I am not saying everything that is written in the Bible is totally correct but it is the very best we have. As you well know I disagree with Paul when he taught/wrote things that opposed the teachings of Moses, the Prophets, Yehsua and the true 12 Apostles. Yeshua and the 12 Apostles never disagreed with the teachings of Moses or the Prophets. You need to start listening instead of rambling on and on all the time. Steve The Bible is a book the church compiled when early church leaders still believed it was righteous to kill people, to torture and burn them to death at the stake and it therefore is not God's Word in its entirety. And you are not here to help anyone. You are here to do the work of Satan and sow confusion, lies and murderous beliefs. Your Bible worship has warped your mind and made you a deceitful murderous liar. You advocate Christians start killing people for all the OT reasons for killing people to "please" God as if you never heard of the teachings of Jesus. You are depraved, Steve. You can't stand to truthfully respond to my posts because you have become a disciple of Satan. You don't know righteousness from wickedness or you simply don't care just like Satan, Steve.
4/23/2015 7:47:49 PM	James vs Paul
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 67, joined Aug. 2010	Quote from ludlowlowell: Kb, all those laws you object to were part of the Levitical law,.abrogated by Jesus when Jesus said that it is not what goes into a man, but what comes out of him that defiles him (Matthew 15:11). Tnt, there is the answer to your question. Up until the time Jesus said this, eating pork and shellfish, refusing to circumcise baby boys, wearing clothes made of two different fabrics, starting fires on Saturday, and failing to stone one's fellow Jew for not keeping all of the above (let's keep in mind that the Levitical law, unlike the ten commandments, applied to the Jews only), defiled a man. After Jesus said what He said at Matthew 15:11, none of these things defiled a man anymore. The pharisees knew what Jesus meant. The very next verse (verse 12) tells us that they were scandalized. Jesus went on to say that the real law breaking was dling things like murder, adultery,.fornication,.stealing, false witness, blasphemy. "As for eating with unwashed hands," Jesus says at verse 20, "that makes no man impure". Low: You don't seem to know it but the majority of the people of Europe, the US and Canada are the descendants of the 12 Tribes of Jacob. Lots of us are descendants of the Lost Ten Tribes/House of Israel. You simply need to do a little research on your own and stop listening to just the Catholic Church. I hope you will be able to comprehend it. I am rooting for you. You may or may not be interested in reading this article: https://blu179.mail.live.com/?tid=cvj703E-yQjulakq2S_B9fiA2&fid=flsearch&srch=1&skws=12%20tribes&sdr=4&satt=0 Steve
4/24/2015 10:58:40 AM	James vs Paul
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 64, joined Oct. 2007	Quote from tnteacher101: Low or Big or anyone else: Show me one place in the entire Bible where Moses, the Prophets, Yeshua or any of the true 12 Apostles said that the Laws of the Torah were done away with. I never said they did. You are confused. But, of course the Torah is NOT mentioned in the Scriptures.
4/24/2015 1:28:21 PM	James vs Paul
tnteacher101 Morristown, TN 67, joined Aug. 2010	Quote from bigd9832: I never said they did. You are confused. But, of course the Torah is NOT mentioned in the Scriptures. Big: The Torah are the first five books of the Bible. As you well know Yahweh chose Moses to be His Lawgiver. No where in the New Testement does it say those Laws and Commandments were done away with. Low keeps saying that all the Laws and Commandments of the Torah are not in effect today and I must politely disagree with that. Do you think those important Laws have been done away with? Steve
4/24/2015 1:58:41 PM	James vs Paul
kb2222 Jacksonville, FL 77, joined Apr. 2011	Why don't you answer my question, Steve? How do you reconcile all those murderous OT laws continuing as you assert with obeying the Golden Rule that Jesus taught? Quote from kb2222: Lets look at Matthew 5 King James Version (KJV) And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: 2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying, 3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. 5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. 6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. 7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. 8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. 9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. 10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. 12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. 13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. 14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. 15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. ~~~~~~~ Why do you think when Jesus said "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled" that Jesus was talking about all the OT murderous laws and not the laws of blessedness He just got through speaking about in verse 3-12?
4/24/2015 4:00:58 PM	James vs Paul
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 64, joined Oct. 2007	I confused the Torah with the Talmud... sorry. Quote from tnteacher101: Low keeps saying that all the Laws and Commandments of the Torah are not in effect today and I must politely disagree with that. Well, he's Catholic. He is trying to understand a religion that is chock full of contradictions. The only way to understand Catholicism is to scrape it off your boot. Well, that can't be as bad as what was said to me by Catholics here. For example... Quote from deneez/dennyinmi: It is easy for someone without any affiliation to any church to stand behind a rock and throw shots at you. You've aligned yourself with this Church, being neither hot nor cold...which is why some of the things brought forth from the both of them make me want to vomit. There is no easy answer to this question. A solid understanding of the division that God has provided is necessary as a base. So far I don't see anyone here grasping this. I have provided all the necessary information in the following threads... The Eight gospels of our Salvation https://DateHookup.dating/Thread-798381.htm The Gospel of the Uncircumcision https://DateHookup.dating/Thread-895199.htm Why Jesus came for the Jews ONLY https://DateHookup.dating/Thread-889549.htm Two Games and Two Separate Set of Rules https://DateHookup.dating/Thread-1250829.htm

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