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12/4/2015 7:38:31 PM Military to open all jobs to women!  
whiskeyrichard1
Over 1,000 Posts (1,477)
Burlington, KY
70, joined Sep. 2013


Ash Carter Sec. of Defense has now ordered all branches to open all MOS's to females.Already women can serve in 78% of all MOS's in the various branches. As a former medic I know that females have been rewarded CMBs in Iraq and Afghanistan. They earned them. Women are dying in combat, mostly in support and MP jobs too because these wars don't have fronts, uniforms and definable targets, they fight us from the shadows and logistics and MPs are easier targets. But my concern is this. Opening up combat arms (infantry/artillery and armor) to` females is hiding from the truth here. Young men aren't joining, and when they do they don't choose combat arms to face multiple deployments and come home to shit benefits and few job prospects and now we are now filling those gaps with women?? Am I wrong?

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12/5/2015 11:44:59 AM Military to open all jobs to women!  
karrpilot
Over 1,000 Posts (1,926)
Oswego, IL
53, joined Jul. 2009


Welcome to reality. Most jobs out there today don't pay crap, and have little to no benefits. So if the military IS offering pay and benefits, why leave? Why not make a career out of it?

If ones reasoning is to be able to stay in one place and start a family by leaving the military, good luck with that. Look at the job prospects currently and tell me what you think.

Me thinks that is only a recipe for a divorce court, with children getting caught up in the middle of all of it.........

12/5/2015 5:11:29 PM Military to open all jobs to women!  

gdaddy47
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,373)
Columbia, TN
69, joined Sep. 2009


I just don't like the idea of women doing the full combat thing. If they get caught up in it that's one thing but for a woman to be infantry etc.... is a mistake. I know some women can do it but in general they can't and aren't made for it.

12/5/2015 5:20:41 PM Military to open all jobs to women!  
cupocheer
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (252,273)
Assumption, IL
68, joined May. 2010




12/6/2015 8:24:55 AM Military to open all jobs to women!  

jrbogie1949
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (13,851)
Ventura, CA
68, joined Mar. 2009


Quote from whiskeyrichard1:
Ash Carter Sec. of Defense has now ordered all branches to open all MOS's to females.Already women can serve in 78% of all MOS's in the various branches. As a former medic I know that females have been rewarded CMBs in Iraq and Afghanistan. They earned them. Women are dying in combat, mostly in support and MP jobs too because these wars don't have fronts, uniforms and definable targets, they fight us from the shadows and logistics and MPs are easier targets. But my concern is this. Opening up combat arms (infantry/artillery and armor) to` females is hiding from the truth here. Young men aren't joining, and when they do they don't choose combat arms to face multiple deployments and come home to shit benefits and few job prospects and now we are now filling those gaps with women?? Am I wrong?


no, you're not wrong. we are filling those gaps with women. i don't see your concern. if men are shying away from the combat arms and women wish to fill those gaps where's the concern?

12/6/2015 8:26:45 AM Military to open all jobs to women!  

jrbogie1949
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (13,851)
Ventura, CA
68, joined Mar. 2009


Quote from gdaddy47:
I just don't like the idea of women doing the full combat thing. If they get caught up in it that's one thing but for a woman to be infantry etc.... is a mistake. I know some women can do it but in general they can't and aren't made for it.


so if you KNOW some women can do it why deny them the opportunity???

12/6/2015 9:09:31 AM Military to open all jobs to women!  
whiskeyrichard1
Over 1,000 Posts (1,477)
Burlington, KY
70, joined Sep. 2013


Im not for denying women the opportunity to serve jrbogie. Theres 78% of all MOS's (including yours and mine) open to them.Im just posing the question that (1) why arent we able to fill those MOS's with males and (2) is this the answer? I was a medic in a infantry company in Vietnam. I know how the lack of hygiene, food and rest can break a body down.

12/6/2015 9:19:58 AM Military to open all jobs to women!  

jrbogie1949
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (13,851)
Ventura, CA
68, joined Mar. 2009


i don't know that the military is having a hard time filling combat mos's with males and don't see that as the issue. the issue is that women in the military now have as many opportunities as males to serve. but if there is a shortage of males in combat roles then why not women to fill those roles? what other answer is there?



[Edited 12/6/2015 9:20:51 AM ]

12/7/2015 7:38:56 AM Military to open all jobs to women!  
cupocheer
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (252,273)
Assumption, IL
68, joined May. 2010




Personally... I do not see an issue.

jmho

12/7/2015 9:21:36 AM Military to open all jobs to women!  
whiskeyrichard1
Over 1,000 Posts (1,477)
Burlington, KY
70, joined Sep. 2013


You can talk to recruiters jrbogie. I do at the VFW. They will tell you that fewer young men (and more young females) are coming through their doors.The military is a great opportunity IF you get into the right MOS..hell you know that..yours led you into civilian aviation and a good life! What Im hearing is that young guys want the tech jobs.Not many are attracted to infantry,armor and arty. What good is a 11B MOS after you discharge? I could have stayed in some sort of health care job probably dumping bed pans in a nursing home,,,nah....I learned to make whiskey!!

12/7/2015 9:22:44 AM Military to open all jobs to women!  

jrbogie1949
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (13,851)
Ventura, CA
68, joined Mar. 2009


seems the military does't see an issue either.

12/7/2015 11:02:32 AM Military to open all jobs to women!  

gdaddy47
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,373)
Columbia, TN
69, joined Sep. 2009


Quote from jrbogie1949:
so if you KNOW some women can do it why deny them the opportunity???




"In general" General is the operative word. Speaking in generalities. I'm not trying to be PC. In general women can't do the sort of things required of combat arms troops. I NEVER have know a woman who could hump the hills in the Central Highlands of Viet Nam with a heavy ruck sack on their back and slug through the jungle. Just common sense stuff.

12/8/2015 10:55:53 PM Military to open all jobs to women!  
cupocheer
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (252,273)
Assumption, IL
68, joined May. 2010


Quote from gdaddy47:
"In general" General is the operative word. Speaking in generalities. I'm not trying to be PC. In general women can't do the sort of things required of combat arms troops. I NEVER have know a woman who could hump the hills in the Central Highlands of Viet Nam with a heavy ruck sack on their back and slug through the jungle. Just common sense stuff.



Well grassy.. I would say you probably haven't since their were no female combat troops in Vietnam.

12/9/2015 10:05:34 AM Military to open all jobs to women!  
whiskeyrichard1
Over 1,000 Posts (1,477)
Burlington, KY
70, joined Sep. 2013


In toda for months at a time, eat cold (a little) food...walk all day sleep maybe a couple hours at night at best,walk miles in mud and mountains in heat, carry a load that your life depended on, and go weeks without bathing or being clean.....in todays "army" they have cell phone,IPODS, and patrol for hours only to go back to a clean rack, hot shower and a mess hall at night.....yeah, women can do that I guess and carry their makeup bags and sanitary items with them! KMA!

12/10/2015 9:24:51 PM Military to open all jobs to women!  
cupocheer
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (252,273)
Assumption, IL
68, joined May. 2010


JYHO

12/10/2015 10:00:19 PM Military to open all jobs to women!  
whiskeyrichard1
Over 1,000 Posts (1,477)
Burlington, KY
70, joined Sep. 2013


I got a better idea. ALL Female army!See how that works out!

12/11/2015 8:48:35 AM Military to open all jobs to women!  

jrbogie1949
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (13,851)
Ventura, CA
68, joined Mar. 2009


Quote from gdaddy47:
"In general" General is the operative word. Speaking in generalities. I'm not trying to be PC. In general women can't do the sort of things required of combat arms troops. I NEVER have know a woman who could hump the hills in the Central Highlands of Viet Nam with a heavy ruck sack on their back and slug through the jungle. Just common sense stuff.


sure, in general women can't do the sort of things required in combat but why deny those who CAN do those required things the opportunity? my guess would be that any member of the wba could hump your's and my a** into the ground even when we were in our teens. nothing common when it comes to common sense stuff.



[Edited 12/11/2015 8:50:52 AM ]

12/11/2015 9:03:04 AM Military to open all jobs to women!  

jrbogie1949
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (13,851)
Ventura, CA
68, joined Mar. 2009


Quote from whiskeyrichard1:
You can talk to recruiters jrbogie. I do at the VFW. They will tell you that fewer young men (and more young females) are coming through their doors.The military is a great opportunity IF you get into the right MOS..hell you know that..yours led you into civilian aviation and a good life! What Im hearing is that young guys want the tech jobs.Not many are attracted to infantry,armor and arty. What good is a 11B MOS after you discharge? I could have stayed in some sort of health care job probably dumping bed pans in a nursing home,,,nah....I learned to make whiskey!!


the point wasn't the number of females vs males joining, which would vary by local, but that the army cannot fill combat jobs with males. ain't buying that an e6 or e7 recruiter at your local vfw are all that knowledgeable about the overall ability of the combat arms to fill positions with men. perhaps you can reference something that shows otherwise but i read the army times often while waiting for appointments at the va and nowhere have i read that such a concern exists. bit the point is moot anyway, is it not? if in fact the services are having a tough time filing an mos with men, what other option is there but to fill that job with qualified women?



[Edited 12/11/2015 9:04:29 AM ]

12/11/2015 11:01:02 AM Military to open all jobs to women!  
whiskeyrichard1
Over 1,000 Posts (1,477)
Burlington, KY
70, joined Sep. 2013


jrbogie. I talk to two guys that are recruiters in this area regularly.Who the hell do you think knows more than they do about recruiting? They have told me that in Cincinnati just across the river that males want technical skills and if the cant get them they dont join. They also claim that black females line up to join . They have also told me that black males come in and half cant pass a drug test or ASVAB and lots of them are rejected for police records.I dont think you'll read it in Army Times but its one way they are dealing with the shortage and still making quotas.

12/11/2015 7:55:33 PM Military to open all jobs to women!  
cupocheer
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (252,273)
Assumption, IL
68, joined May. 2010


Quote from whiskeyrichard1:
jrbogie. I talk to two guys that are recruiters in this area regularly.Who the hell do you think knows more than they do about recruiting? They have told me that in Cincinnati just across the river that males want technical skills and if the cant get them they dont join. They also claim that black females line up to join . They have also told me that black males come in and half cant pass a drug test or ASVAB and lots of them are rejected for police records.I dont think you'll read it in Army Times but its one way they are dealing with the shortage and still making quotas.



Please lay the issue of women being allowed into all MOS areas aside for a moment and consider this... All you Eliot vets... Mostly men of an elder age... Does it cause you some concern that young white men are not entering the military as they have in the past?... What security repercussions do you envision for the future military in domestic or foreign wars if the majority racial balance shifts?

12/12/2015 6:47:10 PM Military to open all jobs to women!  
whiskeyrichard1
Over 1,000 Posts (1,477)
Burlington, KY
70, joined Sep. 2013


cup I guess this is just over your head.Its not about women. They already served in 78% of all MOS's ( combined) in the branches. Its about the reality that we have been at war for nearly 12 years and multiple deployments are straining our force in ways that DOD isn't talking about.So they are scrambling... WAKE UP!

12/13/2015 8:17:54 PM Military to open all jobs to women!  

gdaddy47
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,373)
Columbia, TN
69, joined Sep. 2009


Common sense ISN'T common anymore.

12/14/2015 11:36:52 AM Military to open all jobs to women!  
whiskeyrichard1
Over 1,000 Posts (1,477)
Burlington, KY
70, joined Sep. 2013


Thank you gdaddy! I just been trying to point out the untold story here--you sure as hellarent going to read it in Army Times (jbogie).Women are being recruited to fill the gaps in combat arms because men arent.Anybody who thinks this is about "equal opportunity" or gender equality has their head up their ass.This is about the endless wars we are stuck in and the failure of both the Bush and Obama administrations to confront this enemy and defeat it.

12/14/2015 3:41:09 PM Military to open all jobs to women!  
cupocheer
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (252,273)
Assumption, IL
68, joined May. 2010


Richard.. The issue is not over my head

It is an issue than the male machismo, especially a senior citizen male, has a problem accepting the fact that women can do the same kinds of work as men in the military.

The second issue is that as a young man, you, as well as your age group brotherhood had pride and respect for your country... It hurts your pride, and mine, as well as many senior Americans, that all the younger generation wants to do is play war games on video game machines, smoke pot, and make babies they won't get a job and support. And then the Republican conservatives pound their podiums and call women ugly names for wanting the government assistance for birth control. The double standards are killing this country.

Males need to man-up and accept the fact that if they won't step up to the plate for this country there will be those who will, whether that be women, blackd, Hispanics, etc in greater numbers than ever before. JMHO

12/14/2015 8:41:03 PM Military to open all jobs to women!  
whiskeyrichard1
Over 1,000 Posts (1,477)
Burlington, KY
70, joined Sep. 2013


cheer I accept your opinion but I think you overlook the facts that underpin this kind of social engineering by the military.Women serve courageously and faithfully in 78% of all MOS's but the infantry is different even in this environment of asymmetrical warfare.I served in the 101st in Vietnam with the infantry (1/501)as a medic.I saw what it did to men.I know what it does to human bodies and the effects on the psyche.I lost friends during my tour for some I was with them when they stopped breathing, their hearts stopped beating and I closed their eyes for the last time, but I lost even more after we came home to suicide, addiction and alcohol. Im not trying to hold women back, Im trying to tell them the truth about combat!

12/14/2015 8:48:47 PM Military to open all jobs to women!  

jrbogie1949
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (13,851)
Ventura, CA
68, joined Mar. 2009


Quote from cupocheer:
Please lay the issue of women being allowed into all MOS areas aside for a moment and consider this... All you Eliot vets... Mostly men of an elder age... Does it cause you some concern that young white men are not entering the military as they have in the past?... What security repercussions do you envision for the future military in domestic or foreign wars if the majority racial balance shifts?


i don't know that the military is having trouble white men are not entering the military as they once did.

12/14/2015 8:50:32 PM Military to open all jobs to women!  

jrbogie1949
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (13,851)
Ventura, CA
68, joined Mar. 2009


Quote from whiskeyrichard1:
cup I guess this is just over your head.Its not about women. They already served in 78% of all MOS's ( combined) in the branches. Its about the reality that we have been at war for nearly 12 years and multiple deployments are straining our force in ways that DOD isn't talking about.So they are scrambling... WAKE UP!


how is a thread titled, "military to open all jobs to women," not about women?

12/15/2015 10:24:20 AM Military to open all jobs to women!  
whiskeyrichard1
Over 1,000 Posts (1,477)
Burlington, KY
70, joined Sep. 2013


(this post has been flagged as inappropriate, sorry.)

12/15/2015 5:15:09 PM Military to open all jobs to women!  
cupocheer
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (252,273)
Assumption, IL
68, joined May. 2010


It IS about women... No matter how one slices it!

12/16/2015 3:20:31 PM Military to open all jobs to women!  

jrbogie1949
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (13,851)
Ventura, CA
68, joined Mar. 2009


Quote from whiskeyrichard1:
You always find a way to throw shit in dontcha? Its the issue that isnt being told..the DOD is acting like its some kind of gender equality leader---its NOT! Its using females because it cant attract men to combat arms.Get yer head out of yer a** !


i'm throwing shit? why not get your head out of your own a** and substantiate your "shit" that the military can't attract men?

12/16/2015 10:06:47 PM Military to open all jobs to women!  
whiskeyrichard1
Over 1,000 Posts (1,477)
Burlington, KY
70, joined Sep. 2013


Blow me!

12/17/2015 7:40:36 AM Military to open all jobs to women!  

jrbogie1949
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (13,851)
Ventura, CA
68, joined Mar. 2009


i'll take that as your response to the question.

12/17/2015 9:45:23 AM Military to open all jobs to women!  

theindytechguy
Indianapolis, IN
57, joined Dec. 2013


Cup, you're full of sh** as usual but you are entertaining. Hey Richard I wouldn't waste time listening to recuiters as they are known BSers. You can equate them with your local used car sales weasel.Women should be happy to be women. Stay home and be a good wife and Mother. Now that's honorable. It didn't do women any good service by reading "The Feminine Mystique". In fact it only did harm and confused many issues.