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10/25/2016 3:54:19 PM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

share_n_love
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The Vatican is now controlling the ash placement...including not allowing members to keep the urn at home.



https://www.yahoo.com/news/vatican-no-more-scattering-cremation-ashes-100117264.html








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10/25/2016 5:46:37 PM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

isna_la_wica
Over 7,500 Posts!! (7,524)
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Quote from share_n_love:
The Vatican is now controlling the ash placement...including not allowing members to keep the urn at home.



https://www.yahoo.com/news/vatican-no-more-scattering-cremation-ashes-100117264.html





Yeam I saw an article on that.

They might just as well just come out and say they want to get money, even after you die.

Really stupid for any to listen to them.

10/25/2016 6:40:32 PM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

ludlowlowell
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For a long time the Catholic Church had, as part of canon law, a law against cremation (canon law appies to Catholics only and can be changed by rthe Church at any time). The practice of cremating bodies, with ashes kept in all kinds of disrespectful places, or scattered to the four winds, is not respectful to the human body, a temple of the Holy Spirit.

In 1992 my non-Catholic father died, and his will specified that he be cremated. I was executor of his estate and I went along with it, not having much choice. He was cremated in Nevada where he had been living, and his ashes transportated to Florida, where he was buried with honors (WW2 veteran). I was uncomfortable with it, but I said I had little choice. It did reduce transportation cost. My Baptist aunt, my father's sister, told me she did not like cremation either.

The Christian faith has always been that all bodies, saved or reprobate, will rise in the day Jesus returns. While all bodies can rise, cremated or not, it seems to me more respectful to the dead not to cremate bodies. Especially disrespctcul are cases I hear of cremated ashes kept in an urn on a coffee table. I would like to see the Church re-instate the ban on cremation.

10/26/2016 1:29:10 PM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

share_n_love
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
For a long time the Catholic Church had, as part of canon law, a law against cremation (canon law appies to Catholics only and can be changed by rthe Church at any time). The practice of cremating bodies, with ashes kept in all kinds of disrespectful places, or scattered to the four winds, is not respectful to the human body, a temple of the Holy Spirit.

In 1992 my non-Catholic father died, and his will specified that he be cremated. I was executor of his estate and I went along with it, not having much choice. He was cremated in Nevada where he had been living, and his ashes transportated to Florida, where he was buried with honors (WW2 veteran). I was uncomfortable with it, but I said I had little choice. It did reduce transportation cost. My Baptist aunt, my father's sister, told me she did not like cremation either.

The Christian faith has always been that all bodies, saved or reprobate, will rise in the day Jesus returns. While all bodies can rise, cremated or not, it seems to me more respectful to the dead not to cremate bodies. Especially disrespctcul are cases I hear of cremated ashes kept in an urn on a coffee table. I would like to see the Church re-instate the ban on cremation.


NO one has the right to tell another what is to be done with their ashes. How one dies is irrelevant to their salvation because it's just a dead body that God says from dust it came and to dust it will return.

If anyone has the choice of deciding it would be the family for the emotional consideration...NOT the RCC.

10/26/2016 1:38:17 PM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

ludlowlowell
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The Church has authority to make rules for its members. See Matthew 16:19.

10/26/2016 9:04:06 PM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

tnteacher101
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
The Church has authority to make rules for its members. See Matthew 16:19.


Low: It has always appeared to me that Catholic Church members are are kept on a very short leash, so to speak. The Catholic Church tells you what to believe and how to behave. They tell you that you are not required to follow Yahweh's laws/Torah and Commands which is a major lie. It looks to me like the Catholic Church is herding it's members to hades/hell.

Steve

10/26/2016 9:24:15 PM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

ludlowlowell
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Yes, the Church is our teacher, an infallible teacher that taught the world about Christ. The Church does teach us how to behave (the ten commandments and the laws of the Church, and one law we formerly had was no cremation), and it does teach us what to believe---the articles of faith.

Jesus promised not to leave us orphans. He left us the Church.

10/26/2016 10:23:53 PM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

tnteacher101
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,843)
Morristown, TN
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
Yes, the Church is our teacher, an infallible teacher that taught the world about Christ. The Church does teach us how to behave (the ten commandments and the laws of the Church, and one law we formerly had was no cremation), and it does teach us what to believe---the articles of faith.

Jesus promised not to leave us orphans. He left us the Church.


Low: You are following the laws of your church and you have abandoned Yahweh's Laws/Torah and Commands. You are worshiping the laws of man instead of the Laws of Yahweh. You are also following the traditions of man instead of the traditions of Yahweh.

Steve

10/26/2016 10:41:11 PM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

ludlowlowell
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I don't WORSHIP any law, even God's laws. I worship God. And I respect legitimate authority figures, like the Church, because I know all legitimate authority enamates from God.

10/26/2016 10:47:10 PM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

share_n_love
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
The Church has authority to make rules for its members. See Matthew 16:19.


NO your man made church does NOT Lud. It only seems right to people that are being led by the nose by the RCC.



10/26/2016 10:48:37 PM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

ludlowlowell
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Read Matthew 16:19.

10/26/2016 10:49:10 PM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

share_n_love
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,867)
Fort Wayne, IN
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
Yes, the Church is our teacher, an infallible teacher that taught the world about Christ. The Church does teach us how to behave (the ten commandments and the laws of the Church, and one law we formerly had was no cremation), and it does teach us what to believe---the articles of faith.

Jesus promised not to leave us orphans. He left us the Church.


NO, He left us God's Spirit of Truth [Holy Spirit], not your man made church with it's man made rules.



10/26/2016 10:50:11 PM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

share_n_love
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
Read Matthew 16:19.


I have already addressed this scripture in Steve's thread. You have NO clue what it even means.



10/26/2016 10:51:56 PM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

ludlowlowell
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It means just what it says---Jesus gave the Church and the pope a lot of authority.

10/26/2016 10:53:52 PM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

share_n_love
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
It means just what it says---Jesus gave the Church and the pope a lot of authority.


NO He did NOT.

10/26/2016 11:10:38 PM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

ludlowlowell
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Good for them. An urn full of ashes of human being sitting disrespectfully on the coffee table is revolting.

10/27/2016 2:01:17 AM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

isna_la_wica
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
Good for them. An urn full of ashes of human being sitting disrespectfully on the coffee table is revolting.


For you maybe, but you do not speak for every one. And you do not know if another might find comfort in that.

You want to follow silly rules? Knock your self out. But you have zero right to tell those that disagree, they are revolting.

For much of the Catholic Church’s 2,000-year-long existence, bodies of the faithful were destined for cemetery plots or mausoleum tombs. There you rested, unless you became a saint, in which case select remains ended up in more exotic destinations.

St. Catherine’s mummified head and ampules of St. Januarius’s blood were displayed in Italian churches as sacred relics. St. Anthony of Padua’s 800-year-old tongue toured New York in 2013. But completely incinerating the dead — which early Christians associated with paganism — was forbidden for saints and sinners alike.

In 1963, the Vatican loosened its long-standing prohibition against cremation. Dust to dust was acceptable again, with a few qualifications. Although the Catholic hierarchy maintained that burial was preferred, cremation was acceptable as long as “it does not demonstrate a denial of faith in the resurrection of the body,” according to the Catholic Catechism.
Pope forbids scattering of human ashes in fear of New Age ideas of 'pantheism or nihilism' about afterlife
National Post? - 12 hours ago
As the practice of cremation grew, so too did a few of the .... Edmonton Journal.
More news for national post article on cremation

What a very silly policy. Being cremated does not at all, deny resurrection. Even the bones of most believers who died a thousand or more years ago, are now dust.

And as for their argument about, being "sacred " ground? Man cannot make one piece of ground more "sacred " than another. My ex had an older sister who died of Meningitis,prior to being baptized. And the miserable Priest, would not allow her to be buried in the family plot. She was buried in the Protestant cemetery. My Father in Law, never again went back to the Roman Church. He figured if she, was not good enough for them, then he was not.

What a terrible thing for a grieving parent to go through, shame on them.

And as for "sacred"? If I was going to be cremated? I`d have my ashes tossed in Lake Superior. Its just as scared as a piece of land that has had some priest sprinkle droops of water on it in a voo doo ceremony. God made that Lake, so its just as sacred as any place else.

10/27/2016 4:54:52 AM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

share_n_love
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Excellently put Dun!

10/27/2016 9:53:13 AM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

ludlowlowell
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Non-Catholic Christians are always accusing the Catholic Church of adopting pagan practices. Here we have cremation, a particularly despicable pagan practice, and you guys are defending it. What gives?

10/27/2016 10:23:48 AM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

isna_la_wica
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
Non-Catholic Christians are always accusing the Catholic Church of adopting pagan practices. Here we have cremation, a particularly despicable pagan practice, and you guys are defending it. What gives?


What is "pagan", is thinking land must be prepared by a ceremony or ritual in order to be sacred. What is pagan", is thinking that Resurrection cannot occur if the body is not dealt with properly.

What is "Christian", is having the faith that even though my blood spills on the ground and is sucked up the earth, and my flesh and bones turn to dust and is blown away into the 4 winds? That God can still resurrect.

Like really? Scientists are not that far off from being able to clone , starting with a simple microscopic fragment of DNA. And people fear, that the Creator, who made this Universe and stretched it out in the Universe and who took the most basic of elements and made this place? Cannot, resurrect us when we are dust and blowing in the wind?

That is so lacking in faith.



[Edited 10/27/2016 10:24:24 AM ]

10/27/2016 12:23:31 PM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

ludlowlowell
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The Catholic Church teaches that even cremated bodies will rise from the dead one day. The bodies of even these people will once again be intact, and if they are saved, will be glorified bodies.

The problem the Church has with cremation is the inherit disrespect for the dead. Ashes on an urn on the coffee table? Ashes scattered in the forest like the person never existed? Come on! That is not in the Christian spirit.

10/27/2016 2:32:08 PM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

share_n_love
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God retains a dead person's spirit lud, and He is the ONLY one that counts.

Once again, your church is glorifying the creation rather than the Creator.



10/27/2016 3:21:23 PM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

ludlowlowell
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Respect should be showed for the dead. Cremation does not show proper respect for the dead.

10/28/2016 5:42:48 PM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

isna_la_wica
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
Respect should be showed for the dead. Cremation does not show proper respect for the dead.


Showing respect for the dead, is to honour their wishes.

Its their choice, or their families, if the person who died did not specify.



[Edited 10/28/2016 5:43:04 PM ]

10/28/2016 6:38:21 PM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

shylywilling
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The organization that publicly burned so many alive for effect is feigning concern for the ashes.

Twisted irony!

10/28/2016 6:38:41 PM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

ludlowlowell
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I honored my father's wishes and had him cremated even though I did not like it, so yes, I agree. It was prepaid by him and in his will.

10/28/2016 8:49:09 PM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

ludlowlowell
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We need to make a couple of distinctions here. The Church does not teach that cremation is morally wrong. It only formerly had a rule against it, a rule binding on Catholics only, which my father was not. The rule was in place to respect the dead, to remind us that the body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, and to remind us of the resurrection to come.

10/28/2016 9:46:14 PM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

share_n_love
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
We need to make a couple of distinctions here. The Church does not teach that cremation is morally wrong. It only formerly had a rule against it, a rule binding on Catholics only, which my father was not. The rule was in place to respect the dead, to remind us that the body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, and to remind us of the resurrection to come.


That is what this thread is about, the RCC controlling what their members do with the ashes of cremated members.

They do NOT have a right to determine this. The are supposed to be a volunteer faith-based organization NOT a governing body.



10/28/2016 10:57:06 PM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

ludlowlowell
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Matthew 16:19 shows that the Church is indeed supposed to be a governing body.

10/29/2016 5:17:17 AM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

share_n_love
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
Matthew 16:19 shows that the Church is indeed supposed to be a governing body.


The church as a whole is the people who follow Yahshua. The body of a church is the spiritual governing body....ONLY! The RCC church is overstepping their bounds when they try to tell their members what to do with the ashes of a loved one.



10/29/2016 5:28:41 AM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

ludlowlowell
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The hierarchy of the Church can loose or bind---make rules for members or repeal those rules later---according to Matthew 16:19. The people must obey or commit sin. The Church never binds non-Catholics in this way. If you want to be cremated no one will stop you.

10/29/2016 7:23:20 PM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  
cupocheer
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10/30/2016 3:42:49 AM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

share_n_love
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,867)
Fort Wayne, IN
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
The hierarchy of the Church can loose or bind---make rules for members or repeal those rules later---according to Matthew 16:19. The people must obey or commit sin. The Church never binds non-Catholics in this way. If you want to be cremated no one will stop you.


NO they cannot control people's lives. That isn't even remotely YHVH God's intentions. In fact, that would fall under emotional slavery and Yahshua said He set us free from that!

They are NOTHING more than regular men like any other man...NOTHING special about your pope, cardinals, bishops, or priests!




10/30/2016 11:04:55 AM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

tnteacher101
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,843)
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
The hierarchy of the Church can loose or bind---make rules for members or repeal those rules later---according to Matthew 16:19. The people must obey or commit sin. The Church never binds non-Catholics in this way. If you want to be cremated no one will stop you.


Low: If the Catholic Church had the right to do away or change Yahweh's Laws/Torah and Commands then the Catholic Church could go so far as to change things to where lawless and heathen sinners would go to Paradise/Heaven and righteous people would go to hades/hell. Giving man the right to loose and bind makes absolutely no sense at all. Peter was simply not the first Pope in the first place so there is not even any succession of Apostles in the Catholic Church or any other church. The concept of succession of Apostles never happened and never will happen. It was simply an attempt by the Catholic to falsely claim that they had the very power and authority of Yahweh. Most sober, clear thinking and intelligent people would never, ever, agree with such an apostate claim.

Steve

10/30/2016 3:48:46 PM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

ludlowlowell
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If it doesn't make sense to loose and bind ehy did Jesus give Peter this authority? Are you going to tell Jesus to His Face that the things He said make no sense?

11/9/2016 2:33:04 PM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

shylywilling
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
If it doesn't make sense to loose and bind ehy did Jesus give Peter this authority? Are you going to tell Jesus to His Face that the things He said make no sense?


Are you prepared to charge Jesus cash to deliver him by cab? He said you have already done so Lud.

11/9/2016 4:09:18 PM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

ludlowlowell
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Quote from shylywilling:
Are you prepared to charge Jesus cash to deliver him by cab? He said you have already done so Lud.


I certainly would charge Him cash. And if He and Jiseph came out and made an addition in my house, I would pay them cash. That's the way the economy works.

If Jesus or anyone else were flat broke and stranded I might take Him for free---I do that occasionally.

11/9/2016 5:16:43 PM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

shylywilling
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
I certainly would charge Him cash. And if He and Jiseph came out and made an addition in my house, I would pay them cash. That's the way the economy works.

If Jesus or anyone else were flat broke and stranded I might take Him for free---I do that occasionally.


Playing god deciding whom benefits and whom does not? Wouldn't it be more realistic to always be supplied what you need so you could always return the generosity to anyone else in need?

If we just eliminated all the resources sitting idle locked in private account and put them into circulation, no one would have to give up any possessions and all would have ample resources to flourish. Right now those resources are doing nothing while mothers are murdering their own starving suffering children because the anguish of letting the suffering continue is greater then...

11/9/2016 5:45:38 PM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

share_n_love
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Keep it about the RCC controlling their members cremation.



11/10/2016 8:30:29 PM Now the RCC is Controlling Members Cremation  

ludlowlowell
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I was going to have my brother cremated but I didn't want to pay the capitalists to do it.