If it weren't for God's grace, we wouldn't even make it to Purgatory, we would all go to Hell, all adults and adolescents, anyway.

Some people will misquote 2 Corinthians 5:8 to make it say, "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord", and they do this in an attempt to prove that Purgatory doesn't exist. But the problem is---that's not what 2 Corinthians 5:8 says!

2 Corinthians 5:8, quoted verbatim from the KJV:
"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." St. Paul is saying he, and true Christians, would rather be with the Lord than to have a physical body. I know I would. Paul does not say here that when we die we go strait to Heaven.

Now a believer CAN go straight to Heaven when he dies, if he is in the state of grace and has used that grace to have achieved perfection in Christ. A believer can also go strait to Heaven if he or she suffered a long painful illness patiently, in a Christian manner, without whining, complaining, or cursing, and has offered that suffering to God in reparation for his or her sins. (This doesn't mean they have to refuse medical treatment or palliatives.) A third way to avoid Purgatory is for a believer to pray a lot for the poor souls in Purgatory while he is still on earth, because those souls will pray for him when it's his turn.

But most Christian believers are not that holy, and most will probably have to go through Purgatory before going to Heaven, as 1 Corinthians 3:13-15 says. But 2 Corinthians 5:8 does not say that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

You can play word games, Looptex, or you can seem the Lord. It's your choice.

I would rather be with the Lord than have a physical body, too. This doesn't mean there is no Purgatory, as some want to say this verse says.

no, this verse doesn't say anything about purgatory, and neither does any scripture in the bible.

But, for purgatory to exsist, paul has to be wrong with what he said in these verses

This is bull!!
Matt 20:8
So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.
9 And when they came that were hiredabout the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.
10 But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.
11 And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house, 
12 Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day

You will not get nothing extra.
you will get what God promised, eternal life

Looptex is wrong. The more good we do here, the more we love God here (the same thing, really), the greater our reward in Heaven. The parable he cites has to do with the jealousy long-time believers should not feel towards recent converts.

Jesus did not say all would receive the same wage. Jesus said that if a long-timer and a late-comer so happen to receive the same wage, the long-timer shouldn't complain.

Lean not to your own understanding, Loop. Lean to the Church's understanding. See Proverbs 3:5, 2 Peter 1:20, 1 Timothy 3:15, and 2 Thessalonians 2:15.

but her 2 mites was everything she had and yet she loved God so much she gave all that God has bestowed upon her.

she still did the same as someone winning souls for God.

she gave by faith.


but those who just stumble through are going to heaven indeed but that is it.

we are judged on our works through the faith in Christ.

so works are important to God.

not laziness.

lud go read it.
There's no need to try and divert the thread to something else by quoting another scripture.

Even those hired 1st said, you b have made them equal to us.
Why? Because they all recieve the same, a penny, nothing more, nothing less.

As for your remark, if I leaned to the teaching of the church, my bible would be useless, for they teach not doctrine from the bible but doctrine made by men.

Mark 12:
KJV
41
And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.
42
And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
43
And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
44
For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.

CLV
41 And Jesus, being seated facing the treasury, beheld how the throng is casting the coppers into the treasury. And many rich cast in much."
42 And one woman, a poor widow, coming, cast in two mites, which is a quadrans."
43 And, calling His disciples to Him, He said to them, "Verily, I am saying to you that this poor widow casts in more than all who are casting into the treasury."
44 For all cast out of their superfluity, yet she, out of her want, cast in all, as much as she had - her whole livelihood."




Luke 21:
KJV
1
And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.
2
And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.
3
And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:
4
For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.

CLV
Now, looking up, He perceived the rich casting their approach presents into the treasury."
2 Yet He perceived a certain widow also, a drudge, casting there two mites."
3 And He said, "Truly, I am saying to you that this poor widow casts in more than all."
4 For all these cast out of their superfluity into the approach presents of God, yet this woman, out of her want, casts in all the livelihood which she had."






what is the point Jesus is making here?
She gave more than all of them did because she gave God everything she had.
So, even according to how you give by what you possess is even judged.

and you don't think works is judged the same way and noticed by God?

there clearly must be a reason why God judges all of our decisions collectively compared to how we act them out in obedience to God..

there is a reward for the amount of works as sin...

Revelations 18:
KJV
3
For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5
For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
6
Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double

CLV
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.


...notice for the amount of sins she caused she got double the portion of REWARD.



Revelation 2:19
KJV
I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

CLV
19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

NOTICE He is specific about works He mentions it twice.





James 2:
KJV
James 2:21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

CLV
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

this goes with the 2 mites being good works as I pointed out.




Revelations 2:
KJV
Revelation 2:23
And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

CLV
23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

***according to your works*** is the reward all of us get.

so, there is a difference.

1. How could the Catholic Church teach the doctrines of men when it was founded by none other than Jesus Himself, and Jesus promised to stay with it until the end of time? Isn't it the Protestant churches, founded 1500 years after Christ, that teach the doctrines of men?

2. Why believe in the New Testament at all if you don't believe in the Catholic Church? Don't you know that it was the Catholic Church that put the New Testament together in the first place, at the Council of Hippo in 393 a.d.?

3. The New Testament was written by eight Catholic bishops, namely Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, Paul, James, and Jude.

Looptex is wrong on alot of things.
But it wasn't Looptex that said you would all recieve rue same wage.
That was jesus, but I'd expect nothing less from lud, everything the church teaches goes directly against what the bible teaches.

Interesting that you should quote Joseph Goebbels. Like you, he was a fallen-away Catholic turned eugenicist.