The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable

Lud
The Phariseesbelieved in a life after death; Abraham's Bosom aka Paradise.

The Sadduceesdid not believe in life after death.

Both were wrong in their belief.

That's why John 11 pointed out...
I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

1/27/2017 2:35:50 AM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 64, joined Feb. 2008	The Lazarus-rich man parable refutes three huge heresies. First, it refutes those who say Hell doesn't exist, or that there isn't painful fire there, or that it doesn't last forever. Jesus made it very clear in this parable that it does exist and has everlasting fire, and that no one who goes there ever gets out. Second, it refutes those who say Faith alone saves us. The rich man was sent to Hell because he neglected good works---he neglected to help poor Lazarus. The rich man had faith---he called on his spititual father Abraham. But he lacked works. Faith without works is dead. Third, it refutes those who think "call no man father" is to be taken literally. Notice Jesus did not criticize the rich man for calling Abraham his spiritual father, something that is done eight other times in the New Testament, but only because he would not do the good work of helping a beggar. Of course, if "call no man father" were to be taken literally, we could not even call our own fathers "Father", "Dad", "Daddy", "Pop", or "sir". Meet singles at DateHookup.dating, we're 100% free! Join now!
1/27/2017 8:46:58 AM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
looptex1 Chatsworth, GA 49, joined Jun. 2008	Only in your mind does it refute anything. He didn't call abraham his spiritual father, he was a descendant of Abraham, he wasn't sent there because he didn't do good works. The word doesn't say why he was sent there. But it does say, because thou was comforted and lazurus was tormented, now you are tormented and he is comforted. stop reading your belief into scripture, scripture is just fine without you adding to it.
1/27/2017 9:04:35 AM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 64, joined Feb. 2008	He still called Abraham his father, so "call no man father" must not mean to be taken literally, any more than "if your eye offend thee, pluck it out" should be taken literally. I counted in Strong's Concordance---in at least eight other places in the New Testament, Abraham is called a father in faith by Zechariah, Paul, and Jesus Himself, or the Pharisees said it to Jesus without Jesus correcting them (He was not shy about correcting them on other matters). This parable is very, very specific that the rich man went to Hell because he failed to do the good work of helping the poor. The rich man had faith---he cried out to his father Abraham---but he lacked good works. Faith without works is dead. [Edited 1/27/2017 9:05:20 AM ]
1/27/2017 10:04:35 AM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
a_nubian Columbus, OH 53, joined Jan. 2011	Quote from ludlowlowell: The Lazarus-rich man parable refutes three huge heresies. First, it refutes those who say Hell doesn't exist, or that there isn't painful fire there, or that it doesn't last forever. Jesus made it very clear in this parable that it does exist and has everlasting fire, and that no one who goes there ever gets out. Hell is not a ongoing burning place. That belief is borrowed from the Greeks, e.g. Hades. Jesus did not make it clear in the parable that there is an everlasting fire. The parable (Lazarus and the Rich Man) was for the Pharisees. The parable was specific to the Pharisees because Jesus purposely used Lazarus's name for a future event; the raising of Lazarus (John 11) Parable: Luke 16:29-31 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the DEAD, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, THOUGH ONE ROSE FROM THE DEAD Lazarus Rose from the Dead: John 11:43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. John 11:45-47 Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him. But some of them went their ways to the Pharisees, and told them what things Jesus had done. Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we ? for this man doeth many miracles. John 11:53 Then from that day forth they (Caiaphas and Priests) took counsel together for to put him to death. Conclusion: The Pharisees did not want to believe that Jesus was the Messiah. The Pharisees understanding of Moses and the prophets should have helped them recognize that Jesus was the Messiah. That's why Jesus said, they have Moses and the Prophets let them hear them. So to drive the point even further, but if one was raised from the dead they would believe. Jesus concluded that even if one was raised from the dead they would not be persuaded. The whole idea behind parables were for Spiritual discernment not the literal. So that's why in John 11:53 from then on the plotted to kill Jesus.
1/27/2017 12:38:46 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
iam_resurrected Reno, NV 46, joined Jul. 2014	Christ revealed to John what would actually take place. Revelation 20: 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. if people find this to be false then it explains the consequences in Revelation 22 : 16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. 17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. 21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. so, clearly even "hell" will be tossed into the "lake of fire" some would call this separation from God. I do not see how when it is specific that both HELL and DEATH (not found written in the Book of Life) are thrown into the Lake of Fire. who cares about hell then if you end up in a lake of fire... both ideas (hell) and lake of fire is rather literal here since we know from chapter 22 it is Christ giving this revelation unto John. [Edited 1/27/2017 12:40:00 PM ]
1/27/2017 2:56:25 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
a_nubian Columbus, OH 53, joined Jan. 2011	Iam some would call this separation from God. It is an eternal separation from God. You made a good points about death and hell being thrown in. That's because there will be no more death and hell would have served it's purpose in the annihilation of wickedness. That's what the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man also pointing out; a great chasm and gulf that eternally separates. [Edited 1/27/2017 2:58:46 PM ]
1/27/2017 2:57:11 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 64, joined Feb. 2008	Quote from a_nubian: Hell is not a ongoing burning place. That belief is borrowed from the Greeks, e.g. Hades. Jesus did not make it clear in the parable that there is an everlasting fire. The parable (Lazarus and the Rich Man) was for the Pharisees. The parable was specific to the Pharisees because Jesus purposely used Lazarus's name for a future event; the raising of Lazarus (John 11) Parable: Luke 16:29-31 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the DEAD, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, THOUGH ONE ROSE FROM THE DEAD Lazarus Rose from the Dead: John 11:43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. John 11:45-47 Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him. But some of them went their ways to the Pharisees, and told them what things Jesus had done. Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we ? for this man doeth many miracles. John 11:53 Then from that day forth they (Caiaphas and Priests) took counsel together for to put him to death. Conclusion: The Pharisees did not want to believe that Jesus was the Messiah. The Pharisees understanding of Moses and the prophets should have helped them recognize that Jesus was the Messiah. That's why Jesus said, they have Moses and the Prophets let them hear them. So to drive the point even further, but if one was raised from the dead they would believe. Jesus concluded that even if one was raised from the dead they would not be persuaded. The whole idea behind parables were for Spiritual discernment not the literal. So that's why in John 11:53 from then on the plotted to kill Jesus. Luke 16:23: "And in hell he [the rich man] lift up his eyes, being in torments..." So we see from the parable that Hell has its torments. Verse 24: "...for I am tormented in this flame." So we see that the torments of Hell are flames of fire. Verse 26: "And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence." So now we see that the camps of Heaven and Hell are forever---once one is in one of these two places, one stays there forever. In Revelation it says that Hell will be thrown into a Lake of Fire. That is just imagery to explain that the fires of Hell burn forever. All Bible quotes KJV. [Edited 1/27/2017 2:59:45 PM ]
1/27/2017 3:22:48 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
a_nubian Columbus, OH 53, joined Jan. 2011	Lud Jesus Raised Lazarus from the Dead. Before Jesus got to Bethany... John 11:11-14 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead. Not in a burning hell nor paradise. ]Martha's Conversation with Jesus John 11:21-24 Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother * had not died. But I know, that even now, whatsoever * thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee. Jesus saith unto her, *Thy brother shall rise again. Martha* saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Not in a burning hell nor paradise. Lazarus Come Forth John 11:43-45 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go. Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him. Summation: Jesus pointed out Lazarus was asleep/dead. Martha told Jesus I know he (Lazarus) will rise again in the resurrection at the last day. If Lazarus was in 'Paradise', why would Jesus bring him back to this miserable rock. If Lazarus had gone to 'Hell', why didn't he thank Jesus for rescuing him? Not one person raised from the dead in the bible ever talked about hell or paradise, Lud. Therefore it is concluded that death is a sleep until the last day; resurrection. All those who believe in an existing 'hell' try and use the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus as proof there is a burning hell that people go to if they are not saved. The bible doesn't teach that; the bible along with Jesus taught, death is a sleep until the Resurrection.
1/27/2017 5:55:59 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 64, joined Feb. 2008	The Lazarus that Jesus rose from the dead was probably a different person than the Lazarus of the Lazarus-rich man parable. Very likely the second person was a fictional character (that's why they're called parables). The Lazarus of John's Gospel did not live in poverty and nothing was said about any sores. But even if they were the same person, the Lazarus of Luke's Gospel did not go to Hell---he went to "Abraham's Bosom", or the Limbo of the Fathers, to await the coming of Christ. There was certainly no fire or punishment there. The rich man went to firey Hell, not Lazarus. Why? Because the rich man failed to do good works.
1/27/2017 6:19:43 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
a_nubian Columbus, OH 53, joined Jan. 2011	Quote from ludlowlowell: The Lazarus that Jesus rose from the dead was probably a different person than the Lazarus of the Lazarus-rich man parable. Very likely the second person was a fictional character (that's why they're called parables). The Lazarus of John's Gospel did not live in poverty and nothing was said about any sores. A Parable: *"a simple story used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson, as told by Jesus in the Gospels"* Lud The Rich Man represented the Jews (more specifically the Pharisees). The beggar Lazarus represented the gentiles as referenced to the dogs licking his wounds. ...desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. (Lk 16:20-21) COMPARE Matthew 15 The Canaanite woman: But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their MASTERS' table. Lud Who had the precious gift of the gospel? The knowledge of things to come? The people at that time chosen to spread that good news? The Jews.. Therefore when Jesus gave that Parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man He purposely used the name Lazarus to later illustrate that even one raised from the dead they would not believe. And when Lazarus was raised from the dead they (the Pharisees) plotted to Kill Jesus. Parable played out right in front of them. The idea of an eternal burning hell where people are tormented is Pagan. Came from the Greeks; Hades
1/27/2017 6:26:43 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
a_nubian Columbus, OH 53, joined Jan. 2011	[quot]But even if they were the same person, the Lazarus of Luke's Gospel did not go to Hell---he went to "Abraham's Bosom", or the Limbo of the Fathers, to await the coming of Christ. There was certainly no fire or punishment there. The rich man went to firey Hell, not Lazarus. Why? Because the rich man failed to do good works.
1/27/2017 6:31:50 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 74, joined May. 2012	Quote from ludlowlowell: Third, it refutes those who think "call no man father" is to be taken literally. Notice Jesus did not criticize the rich man for calling Abraham his spiritual father, something that is done eight other times in the New Testament, but only because he would not do the good work of helping a beggar. Of course, if "call no man father" were to be taken literally, we could not even call our own fathers "Father", "Dad", "Daddy", "Pop", or "sir". * You're a sick, sick man, Lud, zigging and zagging every which way to justify your disobedience to God. Don't tell me your rationalizations for not obeying God. Your argument is with God. Tell Jesus. He wants to know: "Why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46) Just say, "Jesus, the reason I refuse to do the things which you say is because..." “Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.” (Mark 7:9) "If a man love me, he will keep my words."(John 14:23) "He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings." (John 14:24) You do not love Jesus, Lud, not enough to follow Him and obey Him. You will do anything and think of any justification to keep on doing what you're doing and and to keep on disobeying Him. 184:2.12 It requires a great and noble character, having started out wrong, to turn about and go right. All too often one’s own mind tends to justify continuance in the path of error when once it is entered upon. -The Urantia Book
1/27/2017 6:36:25 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 74, joined May. 2012	Quote from a_nubian: A Parable: *"a simple story used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson, as told by Jesus in the Gospels"* Lud The Rich Man represented the Jews (more specifically the Pharisees). The beggar Lazarus represented the gentiles as referenced to the dogs licking his wounds. ...desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. (Lk 16:20-21) COMPARE Matthew 15 The Canaanite woman: But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their MASTERS' table. Lud Who had the precious gift of the gospel? The knowledge of things to come? The people at that time chosen to spread that good news? The Jews.. Therefore when Jesus gave that Parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man He purposely used the name Lazarus to later illustrate that even one raised from the dead they would not believe. And when Lazarus was raised from the dead they (the Pharisees) plotted to Kill Jesus. Parable played out right in front of them. The idea of an eternal burning hell where people are tormented is Pagan. Came from the Greeks; Hades The cathlick church is pretty much Pagan as well. They have a pantheon of gods they call saints, they pray and bow down to idols and graven images, they have "holy water" just like the Mithraists, and incense, and they worship on The Day of the Sun God, and so on.
1/27/2017 6:42:37 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
a_nubian Columbus, OH 53, joined Jan. 2011	Quote from followjesusonly: The cathlick church is pretty much Pagan as well. They have a pantheon of gods they call saints, they pray and bow down to idols and graven images, they have "holy water" just like the Mithraists, and incense, and they worship on The Day of the Sun God, and so on. I hear and understand what you are saying. So many compromises (Pagan rituals and traditions) were made by the early church. That's why so many protestants, whom all came out of the Catholic church, still hold on to some of their beliefs (Catholic) which are not scriptural. And when it's pointed out via the bible they get mad instead of testing all things
1/27/2017 7:23:30 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 64, joined Feb. 2008	Lazarus does not represent the pagan nations here. We know the rich man was a Jew---he called on his father Abraham. And we know Lazarus was a Jew, too, because he was the rich man's kinsman. If he is tge same Lazarus as the one on John's Gospel, we know for certain he was a Jew because he was Martha and Mary's brother. This is a parable about the everlasting fire of Hell, the non-getting out of Hell, the fact that faith must be accompanied by good works if one wants to avoid Hell,and that "call no man father" is not to be taken literally.
1/27/2017 8:06:29 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
a_nubian Columbus, OH 53, joined Jan. 2011	Quote from ludlowlowell: Lazarus does not represent the pagan nations here. We know the rich man was a Jew---he called on his father Abraham. And we know Lazarus was a Jew, too, because he was the rich man's kinsman. If he is tge same Lazarus as the one on John's Gospel, we know for certain he was a Jew because he was Martha and Mary's brother. This is a parable about the everlasting fire of Hell, the non-getting out of Hell, the fact that faith must be accompanied by good works if one wants to avoid Hell,and that "call no man father" is not to be taken literally. I didn't say Lazarus represented Pagan nations. I said he represented the Gentiles. I did say the Rich Man represented more so the Pharisees. I gave you a comparison with regard to the Canaanite woman. I can't find the verse that said Lazarus was a kinsman so help me out with that one. As pointed out the reference to the 'dogs' and 'masters's table' should focus you in to what was being pointed out. RE: Martha and Mary It's a parable as I explained before what the significance of a parable is. You are not looking at the overall connection. The non getting out of hell I partially agree. But it's not and everlasting torment. It's an eternal separation. The point was re: the parable is that Jesus was the Promised Messiah. You keep wanting to make this a literal as opposed to a Spiritual analogy.
1/28/2017 2:02:21 AM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 64, joined Feb. 2008	Hell is both eternal separation from God and an eternity of firey torment. And it is the fate of those who fail to help the poor. [Edited 1/28/2017 2:03:23 AM ]
1/28/2017 2:26:14 AM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 74, joined May. 2012	Quote from ludlowlowell: Hell is both eternal separation from God and an eternity of firey torment. And it is the fate of those who fail to help the poor. There is no Hell. That's why it's not in the latest cathlick bible. Your church has moved on and left you in the dust. The wages of sin is death. And that's not now how "fiery" is spelled. I agree, it should be the way you spelled it, but it's not. In the datehookup compose window it should be underlined in red on your Dixie Cup. (TM) "The word fire and the fier- in the word fiery have counterintuitively different spellings. Furthermore, fire is traditionally one syllable (now usually two), while fiery is three. As such, it is easy to mistake fiery as a misspelling of fire + -y." -Wikipedia Eternal personality extinction is the penalty for not aligning yourself with God's will. God is real and God is reality and if you don' align yourself with God's will then you become unreal until cause your own disappearance from reality. Poof. You become as if you never were. Is this what your cell phone looks like?
1/28/2017 2:31:10 AM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 74, joined May. 2012	Quote from a_nubian: I hear and understand what you are saying. So many compromises (Pagan rituals and traditions) were made by the early church. That's why so many protestants, whom all came out of the Catholic church, still hold on to some of their beliefs (Catholic) which are not scriptural. And when it's pointed out via the bible they get mad instead of testing all things Ludlow is the single most ignorant, unteachable man I have ever known, bar none.
1/28/2017 3:19:15 AM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 64, joined Feb. 2008	Jesus made it very clear, in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, that Hell exists, that there are tormenting flames there, and that no one who goes there ever comes out. Rebellion against God, or failing to help our fellow human beings as the rich man in this parable failed to, has dire consequences.
1/28/2017 3:42:59 AM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 74, joined May. 2012	Quote from ludlowlowell: Jesus made it very clear, in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, that Hell exists, that there are tormenting flames there, and that no one who goes there ever comes out. It's a parable. It has a spiritual message. It's not about Hell. You are completely unteachable and willfully ignorant. Luke 16:19-31 New American Standard Bible (NASB) The Rich Man and Lazarus 19 “Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day. 20 And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores, 21 and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man’s table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores. 22 Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. 26 And [a]besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’ 27 And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father’s house— 28 for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ 29 But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 But he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’” The word Jesus uses is "Hades," not Hell. Hades was a Greek place and everyone knew what it was, and that's why Jesus used it in the PARABLE. Rebellion against God..., YOU are in rebellion against God. You refuse to obey God and you contradict God. Jesus says: "If ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: (Mat 6:14) But ludlowlowell says: "God does NOT forgive everyone who forgives others."
1/28/2017 5:40:00 AM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 64, joined Feb. 2008	The Lazarus-rich man parable is about Hell (Hades) and the everlasting fire there. That is obvious.
1/28/2017 12:23:53 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
a_nubian Columbus, OH 53, joined Jan. 2011	Quote from ludlowlowell: The Lazarus-rich man parable is about Hell (Hades) and the everlasting fire there. That is obvious. Peter heard the Parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man and yet he said, "The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and TO RESERVE the UNJUST unto the DAY OF JUDGMENT to be PUNISHED:" (2 Peter 2:9) Not so obvious Lud. You are in contradiction to what Peter wrote. 2 Timothy 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; That's why Martha to Jesus, "Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day." (Jn 11:24) But according to you Lud, Lazarus would have been either in Hell or Heaven. You Contradict what Scripture is Saying. Jesus said: As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the END of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (Matt 13:40-42) Overall Theme: DAY OF JUDGMENT to be PUNISHED At HIS APPEARING The END of This WORLD
1/28/2017 12:55:14 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
_ladybug_ Paragould, AR 66, joined Sep. 2013	Quote from a_nubian: I didn't say Lazarus represented Pagan nations. I said he represented the Gentiles. I did say the Rich Man represented more so the Pharisees. I gave you a comparison with regard to the Canaanite woman. I can't find the verse that said Lazarus was a kinsman so help me out with that one. As pointed out the reference to the 'dogs' and 'masters's table' should focus you in to what was being pointed out. RE: Martha and Mary It's a parable as I explained before what the significance of a parable is. You are not looking at the overall connection. The non getting out of hell I partially agree. But it's not and everlasting torment. It's an eternal separation. The point was re: the parable is that Jesus was the Promised Messiah. You keep wanting to make this a literal as opposed to a Spiritual analogy. nibian, Is this the verse you referenced with kinsman? Romans 9:3 KJV 3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: [Edited 1/28/2017 12:57:47 PM ]
1/28/2017 1:10:34 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
a_nubian Columbus, OH 53, joined Jan. 2011	Quote from _ladybug_: nibian, Is this the verse you referenced with kinsman? Romans 9:3 KJV 3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Ladybug I am not sure if this is what Lud was referring to. In the Parable, there wasn't anything that explicitly stated Lazarus was a kinsman.
1/28/2017 1:22:57 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
a_nubian Columbus, OH 53, joined Jan. 2011	Follow The word Jesus uses is "Hades," not Hell. Hades was a Greek place and everyone knew what it was, and that's why Jesus used it in the PARABLE. Good point. According the traditional teaching that the Pharisees knew, the Rich man was the one that went to the Bosom of Abraham, because they were descended from Abraham; an exclusivity. Jesus had flipped the story to what the Jews or Pharisees thought and believed.
1/28/2017 2:15:28 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
_ladybug_ Paragould, AR 66, joined Sep. 2013	Quote from a_nubian: Ladybug I am not sure if this is what Lud was referring to. In the Parable, there wasn't anything that explicitly stated Lazarus was a kinsman. Well, I tried to help. Have a blessed day.
1/28/2017 2:22:55 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 74, joined May. 2012	Quote from ludlowlowell: The Lazarus-rich man parable is about Hell (Hades) and the everlasting fire there. That is obvious. You are an unteachable, ignorant man.
1/28/2017 2:26:34 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 64, joined Feb. 2008	Nubian, the Catholic Church teaches that each soul is judged by Christ immediately after death and goes immediately to Heaven, Hell, Limbo, or Purgatory, and that if it goes to one of the first three, it stays there forever (Purgatory is temporary---all souls in Purgatory eventually go to Heaven). In the Catholic Church we call this the Particular Judgment. On the last day, when Jesus visibly returns on clouds of glory, all human bodies of those who have "fallen asleep" (undergone physical death) will rise from the dead, both the saved and the unsaved, and Jesus will put the saved (the sheep) on His Right Hand and the goats (the unsaved) on His Left, thus judging them all. Purgatory will cease to exist. Those who have "fallen asleep" will be given the same sentence they received at their Particular Judgments, nothing changes there, but the douls of the saved will be reunited with their bodies, and their bodies will be glorified. The souls of the unsaved will also be reunited with their bodies, and from that point on, not only will their souls burn, so will their bodies (you can bet they aren't looking forward to that!), but neither their souls nor their bodies will be cconsumed in this fire---it eill be an unquenchable fire. This judgment, when all the people in the world are judged at the same time, is called the General Judgment, or Great White Throne Judgment. For persons still alive when Christ returns, the Paricular Judgment and the General Judgment will be one and the same. When will Jesus return on these clouds of glory? No one knows. Maybe ten thousand years from now. Maybe today. Do not listen to anyone who claims to know the day. Faith alone will not suffice for salvation, as the rich man in the Lazarus-rich man parable found out. As St. James says, faith without works is dead.
1/28/2017 2:39:11 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
cupocheer Assumption, IL 68, joined May. 2010	Quote from ludlowlowell: Nubian, the Catholic Church teaches that each soul is judged by Christ immediately after death and goes immediately to Heaven, Hell, Limbo, or Purgatory, and that if it goes to one of the first three, it stays there forever (Purgatory is temporary---all souls in Purgatory eventually go to Heaven). In the Catholic Church we call this the Particular Judgment. On the last day, when Jesus visibly returns on clouds of glory, all human bodies of those who have "fallen asleep" (undergone physical death) will rise from the dead, both the saved and the unsaved, and Jesus will put the saved (the sheep) on His Right Hand and the goats (the unsaved) on His Left, thus judging them all. Purgatory will cease to exist. Those who have "fallen asleep" will be given the same sentence they received at their Particular Judgments, nothing changes there, but the douls of the saved will be reunited with their bodies, and their bodies will be glorified. The souls of the unsaved will also be reunited with their bodies, and from that point on, not only will their souls burn, so will their bodies (you can bet they aren't looking forward to that!), but neither their souls nor their bodies will be cconsumed in this fire---it eill be an unquenchable fire. This judgment, when all the people in the world are judged at the same time, is called the General Judgment, or Great White Throne Judgment. For persons still alive when Christ returns, the Paricular Judgment and the General Judgment will be one and the same. When will Jesus return on these clouds of glory? No one knows. Maybe ten thousand years from now. Maybe today. Do not listen to anyone who claims to know the day. Faith alone will not suffice for salvation, as the rich man in the Lazarus-rich man parable found out. As St. James says, faith without works is dead. Your "downfall", LUD, is following, and teaching, what the corrupted Roman Catholic Church tells you to believe. WHAT DID JESUS (GOD) TEACH? Until you accept Jesus Christ as the authority, not the RCC, your immortal soul is condemned to everlasting death. Open your "eyes".
1/28/2017 2:52:19 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
a_nubian Columbus, OH 53, joined Jan. 2011	Nubian, the Catholic Church teaches that each soul is judged by Christ immediately after death and goes immediately to Heaven, Hell, Limbo, or Purgatory, and that if it goes to one of the first three, it stays there forever (Purgatory is temporary---all souls in Purgatory eventually go to Heaven). In the Catholic Church we call this the Particular Judgment. Lud the Bible doesn't teach this. The Catholic church might teach it but it's not found in Scripture. Death: Psalms 6:3-5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks? The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.Ps 115:17 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish (Ps 146:4) For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. (Eccl 9:5,6) For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth. The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth." Isaiah 38:18-19, No immediately going to heaven or hell, no limbo or purgatory. Not found in the Bible. In fact history points out that the Catholic church used the idea of purgatory so people would pay money to the Catholic church money to pray their love ones out of purgatory if they thought that's where they went.
1/28/2017 3:12:49 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
share_n_love Fort Wayne, IN 61, joined Dec. 2012	Quote from a_nubian: Lud the Bible doesn't teach this. The Catholic church might teach it but it's not found in Scripture. Death: Psalms 6:3-5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks? The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.Ps 115:17 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish (Ps 146:4) For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. (Eccl 9:5,6) For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth. The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth." Isaiah 38:18-19, No immediately going to heaven or hell, no limbo or purgatory. Not found in the Bible. In fact history points out that the Catholic church used the idea of purgatory so people would pay money to the Catholic church money to pray their love ones out of purgatory if they thought that's where they went. Excellently put!
1/28/2017 3:19:20 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 64, joined Feb. 2008	The spiritually dead souls (the souls in Hell) do not praise God, but the spiritually alive souls (those in Heaven and Purgatory) do.
1/28/2017 3:43:14 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
a_nubian Columbus, OH 53, joined Jan. 2011	Quote from ludlowlowell: The spiritually dead souls (the souls in Hell) do not praise God, but the spiritually alive souls (those in Heaven and Purgatory) do. That's not what the Bible said Lud. That's why I am not a Catholic. I have provided scripture. It's clear on the matter of the state of the dead. You provide an interpretation not founded on Scripture.
1/28/2017 4:09:05 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
a_nubian Columbus, OH 53, joined Jan. 2011	Death is a Sleep: So man lies down and does not rise. Until the heavens are no longer, He will not awake nor be aroused out of his sleep (Job 14:12) ...or I will sleep the sleep of death (Ps 13:3) Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake (Daniel 12:2) Jesus: He said, "Leave; for the girl has not died, but is asleep (Matthew 9:24) Why make a commotion and weep? The child has not died, but is asleep (Mark 5:39) Stop weeping, for she has not died, but is asleep (Luke 8:52) Then David slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of David (1 Kings 2:10) For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption (Acts 13:36) And Solomon slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of his father David (1 Kings 11:43) ...Jeroboam reigned was twenty-two years; and he slept with his fathers (1 Kings 14:20) And Baasha slept with his fathers and was buried (1 Kings 16:6) Lord, do not hold this sin against them!" Having said this, he fell asleep (Acts 7:60) ...but some have fallen asleep; (1 Corinthians 15:6) Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment. (John 5:28-29) Note: ACTS 7:60 The Stoning of Stephen From scripture it seems that he would have been taken to Heaven right away but Acts states, "he fell asleep". ACTS 13:36 Kind David fell on sleep Those weren't all the passages on sleep and death but not one refers to anyone going to Heaven or Hell.
1/28/2017 4:44:52 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 74, joined May. 2012	Quote from a_nubian: Lud the Bible doesn't teach this. The Catholic church might teach it but it's not found in Scripture. Ludlow is willfully unteachable and ignorant. You are wasting your time. Read what Ludlow says, over and over and over again: The Church teaches it. That ought to be good enough. The Catholic Church, the Church founded by Christ, says so. That ought to be good enough. Why does it have to be in scripture? It's taught by our holy mother the Church and that ought to be good enough. See 2 Thessalonians 2:15. It doesn't have to be in the Bible specifically. All it has to do is be one of the oral traditions of the Church---see 2 Thessalonians 2:14. It doesn't have to be in the Bible. All it has to do is be taught by the Church. Jesus founded a Church, not a Bible. It doesn't have to be in the Bible. All it has to do is be taught by the Church. A doctrine doesn't have to be in the Bible to be part of God's revelation---all it has to do is be one of the Church's teachings---do 2 Thessalonians 2:15. By rejecting the Catholic Church you are committing the sin of heresy. -Ludlow The Brain Dead Cathlick
1/28/2017 5:22:47 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 64, joined Feb. 2008	The Catholic Church put the Bible together in the first place.
1/28/2017 6:24:34 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
a_nubian Columbus, OH 53, joined Jan. 2011	Quote from ludlowlowell: The Catholic Church put the Bible together in the first place. You keep saying that and it's not true. The Early Church had the Textus Receptus. The Vulgate (/'v?lge?t, -g?t/) is a late fourth-century Latin translation of the Bible that became, during the 16th century, the Catholic Church's officially promulgated Latin version of the Bible. The reformers were Catholic priest that read for themselves what the bible actually said and confronted the church on it. And other groups that had scripture and were able to read for themselves what was really said. You give your allegiance to a church because they say though. The bible says let no man deceive you. So Lud what you have is; Thus saith the Lord Thus saith the Church And your church contradicts many things that the Lord said. I have presented with clarity with scripture, the state of the dead, the meaning behind the parable. And the one thing you cannot answer is not person bought back from the dead in scripture ever talked about their experience.
1/28/2017 6:39:22 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 64, joined Feb. 2008	The Catholic Church put the Bible together at tge Council of Hippo, 393 a.d. This is an historical fact. What, you think the Bible just dropped from the sky one day?
1/28/2017 6:43:21 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
cupocheer Assumption, IL 68, joined May. 2010	Quote from ludlowlowell: The Catholic Church put the Bible together at tge Council of Hippo, 393 a.d. This is an historical fact. What, you think the Bible just dropped from the sky one day? ^^ This... A "canned" robotic reply. Verbatim (right down to the misspelling of the word 'the'[because he has fat fingers] -- as are all the prior, redundant posts with this quote. [Edited 1/28/2017 6:44:29 PM ]
1/28/2017 6:45:27 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 74, joined May. 2012	Quote from a_nubian: You keep saying that and it's not true. The Early Church had the Textus Receptus. Lud will tell you that the "Early Church" was the cathlick church from day one. He has a pat cathlick answer for everything. They have indoctrinated him well. It's the only way he can stay as ignorant as he does.
1/28/2017 6:50:45 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
cupocheer Assumption, IL 68, joined May. 2010	See how that works?
1/28/2017 6:53:02 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 74, joined May. 2012	Quote from a_nubian: You keep saying that and it's not true. The Early Church had the Textus Receptus. The Vulgate (/'v?lge?t, -g?t/) is a late fourth-century Latin translation of the Bible that became, during the 16th century, the Catholic Church's officially promulgated Latin version of the Bible. The reformers were Catholic priest that read for themselves what the bible actually said and confronted the church on it. And other groups that had scripture and were able to read for themselves what was really said. You give your allegiance to a church because they say though. The bible says let no man deceive you. So Lud what you have is; Thus saith the Lord Thus saith the Church And your church contradicts many things that the Lord said. I have presented with clarity with scripture, the state of the dead, the meaning behind the parable. And the one thing you cannot answer is not person bought back from the dead in scripture ever talked about their experience. You don't know what you're dealing with, Nub. You're staring Satan in the face. Look: Jesus=Church. Church=Jesus. Jesus=Church. Church=Jesus. Jesus=Church. Church=Jesus. The Church teaches it---therefore Jesus teaches it. The Church speaks for Jesus. The Catholic Church speaks for God. Catholic assertions are Jesus' assertions. The Catholic Church speaks for Jesus. The pope ...stands in for God. -Ludlow The cathlick
1/28/2017 8:00:06 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 64, joined Feb. 2008	The Catholic Church is beautiful and wonderful.
1/28/2017 8:10:00 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
a_nubian Columbus, OH 53, joined Jan. 2011	Quote from ludlowlowell: The Catholic Church is beautiful and wonderful. God is Beautiful. Man falls short of God's glory and Beauty. That's why we are to be like Him, not a church.
1/28/2017 8:12:39 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
cupocheer Assumption, IL 68, joined May. 2010	Quote from a_nubian: God is Beautiful. Man falls short of God's glory and Beauty. That's why we are to be like Him, not a church. Amen
1/28/2017 8:32:45 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 74, joined May. 2012	Quote from a_nubian: God is Beautiful. Man falls short of God's glory and Beauty. That's why we are to be like Him, not a church. "The Kingdom of God is the Catholic Church." -Ludlow the Indoctrinated
1/28/2017 8:42:28 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 64, joined Feb. 2008	Jesus is the Church and the Church is Jesus. The Church is Jesus' Mystical Bride and Jesus' Mystical Body. The Church is the pillar and ground of truth (1 Timothy 3:15). When Saul of Tarsus was persecuting the Church,Jesus did not ask him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute the Church?". Instead Jesus asked him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?"
1/28/2017 9:00:57 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
cupocheer Assumption, IL 68, joined May. 2010	Quote from ludlowlowell: Jesus is the Church and the Church is Jesus. The Church is Jesus' Mystical Bride and Jesus' Mystical Body. The Church is the pillar and ground of truth (1 Timothy 3:15). When Saul of Tarsus was persecuting the Church,Jesus did not ask him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute the Church?". Instead Jesus asked him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" LUD, please stop it. Saul (Paul) was making murderous threats against the disciples of Jesus Christ. He was even a party to the stoning death of Stephen, if not others. Jesus asked Saul why he was persecuting him (by attacking his disciples). There was no church at that time, LUD. There was Jesus and his apostles teaching the kingdom of God. The Christian Church (church means community) didn't organize until years AFTER the death and resurrection. Stop being a Catholic Church pushing lies heretic, LUD.
1/28/2017 9:43:57 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 64, joined Feb. 2008	Jesus organized the Catholic Church. He appointed Peter to be the first pope and the other apostles the first bishops. He gave the Church its chief worship service, the Mass.
1/28/2017 9:48:17 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
cupocheer Assumption, IL 68, joined May. 2010	Same line --Same lies
1/28/2017 10:21:40 PM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 74, joined May. 2012	* You're a sick, sick, cathlick man, Lud. And instead of trying to get back to reality, you dig your hole deeper and deeper.
2/3/2017 8:46:26 AM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
cupocheer Assumption, IL 68, joined May. 2010
5/30/2017 9:02:41 AM	The Lazarus-Rich Man Parable
cupocheer Assumption, IL 68, joined May. 2010

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