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1/28/2017 12:13:21 PM The New Heaven and Earth  
mindya
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (23,591)
Vancouver, BC
64, joined Jan. 2009


(Rev 21:1 KJV) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

(Isa 65:17 KJV) For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

John is obviously speaking of the prophecy of Isaiah.

Are these "new heaven and earth" literally physical? The common belief is that in this "new heaven and earth" there is no death or sin. This is not so:

(Isa 65:20 KJV) There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

Isaiah plainly states that in this "new heaven and earth" the is death and sin. John in his Revelation basically states exactly the same thing:

(Rev 22:11 KJV) He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

How can this be? The problem lies in the Western "Hellenistic" mindset that entered the church after the Apostles died out with a loss of understanding of the Hebraic thought in the old testament scriptures and which the writer of the NT were schooled in.

In his book "The Parousia" James Stuart Russell M.A., D.Div., (1816 – 1895) writes:

A person at all familiar with the phraseology of the Old Testament Scriptures knows that the dissolution of the Mosaic economy and the establishment of the Christian, is often spoken of as the removing of the old earth and heavens, and the creation of a new earth and new heavens.

(See Isa. lxv. 17, and lxvi. 22.) The period of the close of the one dispensation and the commencement of the other, is spoken of as "the last days," and "the end of the world," and is described as such a shaking of the earth and heavens, as should lead to the removal of the things which were shaken (Hag. ii. 6; Heb. xiv. 26, 27).’.......

There seems, therefore, to be Scripture warrant for understanding ‘things in heaven and things in earth’ in the sense indicated by Locke, as meaning Jew and Gentiles. It is possible, however, that the words point to a still wider comprehension and a more glorious consummation.

They may imply that the human race, separated from God and all holy beings, and divided by mutual enmity and alienation, was destined by the gracious purpose of God to be reclaimed, restored, and reunited under one common Head, the Lord Jesus Christ, to the one God and Father of mankind, and to all holy and happy beings in heaven.......

2 Pet. iii. 7, 10-12.---‘But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men . . . . But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burnt up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth wherein dwelleth righteousness.’......


It must not be forgotten that St. Peter is speaking, not of a distant, but of an impending, catastrophe. The ‘last days’ were the days then present (1 Pet. i. 5, 20), and the scoffers are spoken of as actually existing (chap. iii. 5),---‘This they willingly are ignorant of,’ etc.


The imagery here employed by the apostle naturally suggests the idea of the total dissolution by fire of the whole substance and fabric of the material creation, not the earth only but the system to which it belongs; and this no doubt is the popular notion of the final consummation which is expected to terminate the present order of things.

A little reflection, however, and a better acquaintance with the symbolic language of prophecy, will be sufficient to modify such a conclusion, and to lead to an interpretation more in accordance with the analogy of similar descriptions in the prophetic writings.

First, it is evident on the face of the question that this universal conflagration, as it may be called, was regarded by the apostle as on the eve of taking place,---‘The end of all things is at hand’ (1 Pet. iv. 7). The consummation was so near that it is described as an event to be ‘looked for, and hastened unto’ (ver. 12.)

It follows, therefore, that it could not be the literal destruction or dissolution of the globe and the created universe concerning which the spirit of prophecy here speaks.

But that there was at the moment when this epistle was written an awful and almost immediate catastrophe impending; that the long-predicted ‘day of the Lord’ was actually at hand; that the day did come, both speedily and suddenly; that it came ‘as a thief in the night;’ that a fiery deluge of wrath and judgment overwhelmed the guilty land and nation of Israel, destroying and dissolving its earthly things and its heavenly things, that is to say, its temporal and spiritual institutions,---is a fact indelibly imprinted on the page of history.


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1/29/2017 6:42:32 PM The New Heaven and Earth  
mindya
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (23,591)
Vancouver, BC
64, joined Jan. 2009


Adam Clarke in his commentary has written about the "elements" - Greek "stoicheion"

(Gal 4:3 KJV) Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:


Here is what Adam Clarke had to say in his commentary:

Galatians 4:3 "The elements of the world" - A mere Jewish phrase, the principles of this world; that is, the rudiments or principles of the Jewish religion.


(Gal 4:9 KJV) But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?


Adam Clarke again:

Galatians 4:9 "Now, after that ye have known God - After having been brought to the knowledge of God as your Savior. Or rather are known of God - Are approved of him, having received the adoption of sons.

To the weak and beggarly elements .

After receiving all this, will ye turn again to the ineffectual rites and ceremonies of the Mosaic law - rites too weak to counteract your sinful habits, and too poor to purchase pardon and eternal life for you? If the Galatians were turning again to them, it is evident that they had been once addicted to them. And this they might have been, allowing that they had become converts from heathenism to Judaism, and from Judaism to Christianity. This makes the sense consistent between the 8th and 9th verses.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Strongs

G4747 stoicheion stoy-khi'-on

neuter of a presumed derivative of the base of G4748;

something orderly in arrangement, i.e. (by implication) a serial (basal, fundamental, initial) constituent (literally), proposition (figuratively).

KJV: element, principle, rudiment.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
G4748 stoicheo stoy-kheh'-o

from a derivative of steicho (to range in regular line);

to march in (military) rank (keep step), i.e. (figuratively) to conform to virtue and piety.

KJV: walk (orderly)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A search on G4748 stoicheo in the new testament yields 7 results.

English translation shown in bold:

(Acts 21:24 KJV) Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

(Rom 4:12 KJV) And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

(Gal 6:16 KJV) And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

(Gal 5:25 KJV) If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

(Phil 3:16 KJV) Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.


A search on G4747 "stoicheion" in the new testament yields 5 results


(Gal 4:3 KJV) Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:

(Gal 4:9 KJV) But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

(Col 2:8 KJV) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

(Col 2:20 KJV) Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

(Heb 5:12 KJV) For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

(2 Pet 3:10 KJV) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

(2 Pet 3:12 KJV) Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?


In the above it can seen that out of 12 usages of stoicheo/stoicheion 10 are clearly describing some kind of walk/steps or rule following some kind of moral or religious code.

When it comes to Peter the futurist commentators including Adam Clarke want to change that established usage to the "elements" i.e molecules and atoms of the earth and the universe.

On what logical linguistic basis do they change the usage?

Presuppositions based on the "end of the world" scenario and a literal new "heavens and earth".

This is a glaring inconsistency.

We see from Strong's that there is no mention of "elements/atoms" of the physical world in the definition.

Clearly Peter is speaking as did Paul in Galatians where Adam Clarke hits the mark "the principles of this world; that is, the rudiments or principles of the Jewish religion", yet misses the mark in his comments on 2 Peter 30,12.

The "elements" were burnt up along with the old "heavens and earth" of Old Covenant Israel in the war of 66-70 AD.

The fire that was to consume the "elements" of the Mosaic Law and old "heavens and earth" were already kindled in the days of Christ:

(Luke 12:49 KJV) I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?


Will need a bump - thanks



[Edited 1/29/2017 6:43:14 PM ]

1/29/2017 7:21:29 PM The New Heaven and Earth  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (34,030)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


Bump.

2/3/2017 8:46:47 AM The New Heaven and Earth  
cupocheer
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (252,265)
Assumption, IL
68, joined May. 2010




5/30/2017 9:03:00 AM The New Heaven and Earth  
cupocheer
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (252,265)
Assumption, IL
68, joined May. 2010