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2/15/2017 8:30:54 AM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 3  

isna_la_wica
Over 4,000 Posts! (7,026)
Brantford, ON
62, joined Mar. 2012
online now!


Quote from ludlowlowell:
I try to treat women and men with respect, regardless of their religious beliefs.


Why all those anti woman threads then?

Were you just temporarily jilted or something?

That is understandable , as long as one gets over it.

But you did a lot of very nasty threads about them Lud.

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2/15/2017 10:08:09 AM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 3  
paulrxp
Miami, FL
49, joined Aug. 2014


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Not all Catholics hate Jews. I don't. Were not Jesus, Mary, Joseph, and all the apostles Jews? Surely the Muslims represent a much greater threat to world peace and our freedom of religion than do the Jews.

"Pray for the peace of Jerusalem, and peace for the whole world."

--a sign I saw outside a synogogue in New Orleans


True, Jesus, Mary and Joseph certainly were the Jews . The question would be then is that are the Jews now in Palestine descendants of the Holy Family, David and Moses?

2/15/2017 2:05:38 PM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 3  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (32,110)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


I understand that argument, Paul, and I subscribe to the sound Catholic doctrine of supersuccessionism (sp?) that the Catholic Church is the New Israel and the New Jerusalem, faithful Catholic Christians the New Jews, and the Mass the New Passover. But this excessive hatred many Catholics have had against the Jews down through the centuries is way out of line. True, they rejected their Messiah and King but the Jews certainly aren't the only ones who don't believe in Christ. They are small in number, always were, and whatever threat to Christian civilization they pose, past and present, is greatly exaggerated by many.

In an evil world, where the very existence of the Church is threatened by socialists, secularists, sexual libertines, Muslims, Communists, and Fundamentalist Protestants, to worry about the weak and miniscule Jewish threat would be like being in a swamp and worrying about the sand fleas and ignoring the alligators.

2/15/2017 7:34:41 PM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 3  
paulrxp
Miami, FL
49, joined Aug. 2014


Quote from ludlowlowell:
I understand that argument, Paul, and I subscribe to the sound Catholic doctrine of supersuccessionism (sp?) that the Catholic Church is the New Israel and the New Jerusalem, faithful Catholic Christians the New Jews, and the Mass the New Passover. But this excessive hatred many Catholics have had against the Jews down through the centuries is way out of line. True, they rejected their Messiah and King but the Jews certainly aren't the only ones who don't believe in Christ. They are small in number, always were, and whatever threat to Christian civilization they pose, past and present, is greatly exaggerated by many.

In an evil world, where the very existence of the Church is threatened by socialists, secularists, sexual libertines, Muslims, Communists, and Fundamentalist Protestants, to worry about the weak and miniscule Jewish threat would be like being in a swamp and worrying about the sand fleas and ignoring the alligators.



"Weak", "Minuscule" The Jewish population is less than 3% of the US Population. How exactly is it that 44% of the Supreme Court , is comprised of Jews? What's even more of a paradox is how some atheist kooks on here come to the rescue of these so-called persecuted chosen people of God.

If we're going to use your analogy, then that swamp you are referring to is being run by the fleas. It is the fleas that are at the top of the food chain, not the alligator

2/15/2017 9:40:55 PM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 3  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (32,110)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


No one can deny that the Jews,by and large, are highly intelligent and extremely skilled at business. Yes, they seem to be everywhere, yes, they seem to dominate certain industries, true, they don't believe in Christ, but they are a paper tiger, a minor irritation, certainly not nearly the threat the Muslims or Communists or secularists or Fundamentalist Protestants pose. Brazil is now 40% Fundamentalist Protestant, not 40% Jewish. Let us learn where the real threat is.

What has sustained Judaism all these centuries since Christ? Persecution of them! They rally to each other because of this. In today's world the error of Indifferentism (the belief that one religion is as good as another) has infected the Church. Ironically Judaism has the most to fear from Indifferentism---if one teligion is as good as another, why be a Jew, especially a passionate Jew? If one religion is as good as another, Goldstein and Shapiro will start eating ham sandwiches. (Does anyone know of any Jew who actually abstains from pork?)

Had medieval Catholics yawned at the Jews instead of getting so excited by the Jews, perhaps all, or most, of the Jews could have been converted long ago and could have become at least nominal Catholics.

2/16/2017 5:59:09 AM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 3  
paulrxp
Miami, FL
49, joined Aug. 2014


Quote from ludlowlowell:
No one can deny that the Jews,by and large, are highly intelligent and extremely skilled at business. Yes, they seem to be everywhere, yes, they seem to dominate certain industries, true, they don't believe in Christ, but they are a paper tiger, a minor irritation, certainly not nearly the threat the Muslims or Communists or secularists or Fundamentalist Protestants pose. Brazil is now 40% Fundamentalist Protestant, not 40% Jewish. Let us learn where the real threat is.

What has sustained Judaism all these centuries since Christ? Persecution of them! They rally to each other because of this. In today's world the error of Indifferentism (the belief that one religion is as good as another) has infected the Church. Ironically Judaism has the most to fear from Indifferentism---if one teligion is as good as another, why be a Jew, especially a passionate Jew? If one religion is as good as another, Goldstein and Shapiro will start eating ham sandwiches. (Does anyone know of any Jew who actually abstains from pork?)

Had medieval Catholics yawned at the Jews instead of getting so excited by the Jews, perhaps all, or most, of the Jews could have been converted long ago and could have become at least nominal Catholics.


There's an identity ingrained among the Jews that unify them that other groups do not have or embrace. Persecution almost always unites a group, whether it be Jews, Christians, Blacks or homosexuals. The resistance against the persecution always takes priority over personal differences and struggles.

Medieval Christianity cannot have been expected to convert everyone. Just the conversion of King Constantine alone was enough in my opinion. It would have been unimaginable back then that a powerful pagan King of of a Roman Empire would have submitted to the power and glory of Christ and His Church.

And anyways, there were scores of Jews converted in Greece and Asia minor during and after the apostolic age. We already know that even in small numbers, the resourceful , revolutionary Jew will defy and resist anything it doesn't want to humble itself to no matter how he/she is treated, that includes almighty God. Time after time in the Old Testament, the disobedient Jew were worms even when they were the apple of Gods eyes.

Judaism is probably much closer to Islam than Christianity. Ask any Jew or Muslim and they probably will agree, ask a Christian and they will disagree. Both reject Christ, believe the Trinity is not monotheistic, both have very radical elements that almost detach all teachings of their faith to subjugate people not of their faith. The only major difference is the Jews could care less if they had the numbers. Even if you were converted to Judaism. If you were not born a Jew by maternal birth, you'll never be looked at or considered a Jew. Not the case with Islam.

I would be very cautious to think that just because Muslims are more of a threat to the Christians and the secular world, that by defacto the Jews will be staunch allies and have our best interests. That's exactly how the Zionist wants you to think and react.
Recall that before WWI the Jews were treated very well in Germany, they flourished there after fleeing Russia before the Bolsheviks. Look at how loyal the Jews were to the Germans after they were welcomed there. The events of WWI and II was the backlash. They weren't just persecuted for no reason. I don't agree that they should have been treated the way they were, but they should not have turned on nations who welcomed them and allowed them to prosper. They betrayed those that were good to them, and they paid a heavy price for it.

2/16/2017 7:32:25 AM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 3  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (32,110)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


Jews are, at present, our staunch allies in the jihad Muslims fight against the rest of the world because of the Israel situation. That could change. During the Middle Ages, especially in Spain, they tended to side with the Muslims. But in the ongoing centuries-old Christian-Muslim struggle, it doesn't really matter whose side the Jews are on---they are in such small number that they're hardly even a factor.

2/16/2017 7:55:50 AM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 3  
paulrxp
Miami, FL
49, joined Aug. 2014


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Jews are, at present, our staunch allies in the jihad Muslims fight against the rest of the world because of the Israel situation. That could change. During the Middle Ages, especially in Spain, they tended to side with the Muslims. But in the ongoing centuries-old Christian-Muslim struggle, it doesn't really matter whose side the Jews are on---they are in such small number that they're hardly even a factor.


For decades, that's how I viewed it. After Iraq II, that all changed, and I had to really remove all my biases and look at the situation objectively. What the American people were sold was that Israel was the lone democracy in the Middle East. A beacon of hope to help spread American ideas and democracy across the Muslim dominated region.

There is a reason why very few nations side with the Israelis. When you really see the big picture, the reason why America and Israel are allies has nothing to do with their Judeo/Christian roots, or even a shared resistance against militant Muslim forces. This alliance is the shared view that both nations must expand their influence. For America, it's anywhere and everywhere, for the Israelis it's all the lands that surround Israel.

America and Israels policy has done great damage to the Christian people in the Middle East. Christians who've occupied their lands almost as far back as the Middle Ages were forced to flee not because of the Muslim threat, the Muslim threat was the result of the vacuum that was created by preemptive wars instigated by America and the Israelis

So do not be consumed by the numbers of any people with regards to their power and influence. Oligarchs don't have the numbers, but they wrap their long tentacles and choke the life out of a nation even with their minuscule numbers in a blink of an eye. The Russians know this, and experienced it first hand after the Commie scum Soviet regime fell flat on its face.
The Israeli state is all about Israel, it serves no master. The sooner Americans come to grips with this reality, the better off we and the entire region will be.

2/16/2017 8:53:43 AM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 3  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (32,110)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


The Jews are small in number and not much of a threat to anyone. The Muslims raid Christian villages throughout Africa and sell the people into slavery, often sexual slavery. I repeat my earlier analogy---never mind the sand fleas, concentrate on the alligators.

2/16/2017 9:15:17 AM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 3  
paulrxp
Miami, FL
49, joined Aug. 2014


Quote from ludlowlowell:
The Jews are small in number and not much of a threat to anyone. The Muslims raid Christian villages throughout Africa and sell the people into slavery, often sexual slavery. I repeat my earlier analogy---never mind the sand fleas, concentrate on the alligators.


Lud mentioning Jews, Africa , slavery in the same sentence and painting the Jews in a positive light is a futile endeavor. Better read up on some history. Even the the Catholic Church will have a much more favorable record with regards to slavery in the New World after the Reformation.

Excerpts: "Slave trading was a major feature of Jewish economic life in Surinam which as a major stopping-off point in the triangular trade. Both North American and Caribbean Jews played a key role in this commerce: records of a slave sale in 1707 reveal that the ten largest Jewish purchasers (10,400 guilders) spent more than 25 percent of the total funds (38,605 guilders) exchanged."

source: http://www.rense.com/general69/invo.htm

Fleeing the so called brutal Inquisition of those bad ole Catholics, look at what they got involved in when they arrived in the new world:





[Edited 2/16/2017 9:16:01 AM ]

2/16/2017 11:20:01 AM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 3  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (32,110)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


Did Jews engage in slave trading in the past? Maybe, but the important thing is they don't do it anymore. To blame the Jews for some slsve trading they did in 1707 is like still blaming the Catholic Church for having inquisitions five hundred years ago, or still blaming Americans for slavery, or still blaming modern Germany for the Nazi atrocities. All this is in the past.

But jihad, slave trading, stoning rape victims, terrorism, sharia law---these aren't things the Muslims did 500 years and are long forgotten. All of this still is very much a part of today's Muslim belief and practice. The Muslim threat is real. The Jewish threat is non-existent.

2/16/2017 11:24:50 AM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 3  

isna_la_wica
Over 4,000 Posts! (7,026)
Brantford, ON
62, joined Mar. 2012
online now!


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Did Jews engage in slave trading in the past? Maybe, but the important thing is they don't do it anymore. To blame the Jews for some slsve trading they did in 1707 is like still blaming the Catholic Church for having inquisitions five hundred years ago, or still blaming Americans for slavery, or still blaming modern Germany for the Nazi atrocities. All this is in the past.

But jihad, slave trading, stoning rape victims, terrorism, sharia law---these aren't things the Muslims did 500 years and are long forgotten. All of this still is very much a part of today's Muslim belief and practice. The Muslim threat is real. The Jewish threat is non-existent.


I believe the saying : ' If Palestinians got rid of their weapons today, tomorrow there would be no war. If Israel got rid of their weapons today, tomorrow there would be no Israel".

Judaism does not encourage trying to get people to be like them.

But Islam and some sects of Christianity, do seek to enforce their will on all.

For once, I actually agree with lud.

2/16/2017 1:50:54 PM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 3  
paulrxp
Miami, FL
49, joined Aug. 2014


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Did Jews engage in slave trading in the past? Maybe, but the important thing is they don't do it anymore. To blame the Jews for some slsve trading they did in 1707 is like still blaming the Catholic Church for having inquisitions five hundred years ago, or still blaming Americans for slavery, or still blaming modern Germany for the Nazi atrocities. All this is in the past.



"some slave trading" is a HUGE understatement Lud. Think, reason. You yourself called their population "minuscule" How was so minuscule a population so heavily involved in the slave trade? That's number one.

Two, I've already addressed the Inquisition, and debunked that myth. So I don't have to apologize or defend it, even as a Catholic. We can discuss the Inquisition in depth if you like, but if you think the Church is any more guilty for that incident than executions concurring today, then you're going to realize that you're helping perpetuate false information against your own faith.

Three, I want you to speak to any Jew you know, reformed, conservative, or orthodox, tell them not to blame modern Germany for the Nazi atrocities. Tell them it's all in the past. See what happens and then report back to me.

Four, similarly, speak to any African American. Tell them the confederate flag should not offend them, since slavery isn't practiced any more anyways.

The point is this. You are not holding the Jews to the same standards of moral behavior as you are for other faiths, and ethnic groups. If anything they should be more accountable because they have done more things that we deem immoral for such a small , minuscule population that you always allude to.

And you can back up a few, and tell me about this Christian slave trade in Africa, I want to know about it, because it's news to me. Let me just say though, that as a Catholic, I will not defend any actions taken by non-Catholic Christians. Whether it be the African slave trade in the Americas, or any slave trade in Africa. You can ask our protestant friends to do that.

2/16/2017 4:20:10 PM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 3  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (32,110)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


You want to know about Muslims selling Christians (mostly Catholics) into slavery in Nigeria, Sudan, and some places? Google it!

I don't care if the Jews traded slaves in 1707. I care that Muslims are doing it now!

Paul, if you want to be a good Catholic, learn who the Church's real enemies are.

I am not a Zionist or a Judaizer. I don't think the Jews are the chosen people of God---since Christ came Catholics, not Jews, are the chosen. The Catholic Church is the New Israel. I know the Jews commit atrocities in Palestine. I also know how the Palestinians commit many, many more.

Islam is barabaism. Judaism is too small and ineffectual to worry about.

2/16/2017 8:47:11 PM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 3  
paulrxp
Miami, FL
49, joined Aug. 2014


Quote from ludlowlowell:
You want to know about Muslims selling Christians (mostly Catholics) into slavery in Nigeria, Sudan, and some places? Google it!

I don't care if the Jews traded slaves in 1707. I care that Muslims are doing it now!

Paul, if you want to be a good Catholic, learn who the Church's real enemies are.

I am not a Zionist or a Judaizer. I don't think the Jews are the chosen people of God---since Christ came Catholics, not Jews, are the chosen. The Catholic Church is the New Israel. I know the Jews commit atrocities in Palestine. I also know how the Palestinians commit many, many more.

Islam is barabaism. Judaism is too small and ineffectual to worry about.


Ok this is probably where you misunderstood. At no point was I implying that the Jews were a bigger threat to civilians than the radical Muslims are and were with regards to terrorism, or even the slavery you mentioned in Africa. My whole beef with the Jews, particularly with the zionists, slave traders, money lenders of the past and present, media and political oligarchs is their influence. Do you or do you not believe the Jew has more influence and control of the US policy in the Middle East? Do you or do you not believe the Jews have more influence over the media and banking industry industry here and the entire Western world?

I'll totally understand that you could care less that the Jews were major players in the African slave trade, but be consistent in your reasoning and be just as indifferent to any Nazi atrocities that occured during WWII

2/16/2017 9:50:43 PM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 3  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (32,110)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


Quote from paulrxp:
Ok this is probably where you misunderstood. At no point was I implying that the Jews were a bigger threat to civilians than the radical Muslims are and were with regards to terrorism, or even the slavery you mentioned in Africa. My whole beef with the Jews, particularly with the zionists, slave traders, money lenders of the past and present, media and political oligarchs is their influence. Do you or do you not believe the Jew has more influence and control of the US policy in the Middle East? Do you or do you not believe the Jews have more influence over the media and banking industry industry here and the entire Western world?

I'll totally understand that you could care less that the Jews were major players in the African slave trade, but be consistent in your reasoning and be just as indifferent to any Nazi atrocities that occured during WWII


I think Jewish influence is not near as great or as intense as you think.

2/16/2017 10:03:26 PM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 3  
paulrxp
Miami, FL
49, joined Aug. 2014


Quote from ludlowlowell:
I think Jewish influence is not near as great or as intense as you think.


You sure about that? You don't think they have any influence on Evangelicals?

2/17/2017 8:37:01 AM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 3  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (32,110)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


The Jews have a lot of influence, influence beyond their numbers, and they reject Christ, but their number and influence is not nearly as great, nor their agenda nearly as evil, as that of the Muslims, socialists, secularists, evangelical Orotestants, or liberals within the Church (that latter is a real bad one).

I once knew a priest who said that he had more respect for the Jews than he had for Protestants, because at least the Jews were up front that they didn't believe in Christ, whereas the Protestants claim to believe in Christ but reject at least half of His teachings. For a long time I agreed with him, now I'm not so sure, but you gotta admit he did have a point.

2/17/2017 11:09:54 AM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 3  
paulrxp
Miami, FL
49, joined Aug. 2014


Quote from ludlowlowell:

I once knew a priest who said that he had more respect for the Jews than he had for Protestants, because at least the Jews were up front that they didn't believe in Christ, whereas the Protestants claim to believe in Christ but reject at least half of His teachings. For a long time I agreed with him, now I'm not so sure, but you gotta admit he did have a point.




This is going to be an utter shock to you but my best friends are Jews, protestants and atheists. They actually get a good dose of what I write on here so there is no hypocrisy whatsoever. The tone may be different, but I'll tell them flat out the errors of their beliefs and I gladly take it on the chin when they try to rip me about Catholicism. Defending the actions of Catholics, especially the politicians may be the most difficult thing though, not the history or the teachings of the faith.

Anyways, I do agree with what you touched on about that priest. I'll throw something at you and not even going to argue. I'd rather just get your take on it. There's been little to nothing mentioned about this very special year, the 500th year anniversary of the Protestant Reformation. There's a deafening hush though in the protestant world, maybe only the Lutherans are really celebrating it. All non-Catholics should be rejoicing, since this really marked the end of Christendom in Europe.

Now theory I've heard. The nations that were founded by the protestants, or became protestant eventually become less Christian, more secular, or altogether pagan, what do you think?

2/17/2017 12:53:43 PM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 3  
lordclarence
South Yorkshire
United Kingdom
59, joined Mar. 2013


.
Quote from paulrxp:
"Weak", "Minuscule" The Jewish population is less than 3% of the US Population. How exactly is it that 44% of the Supreme Court , is comprised of Jews?

I'd speculate it's because middle class Jews have a solid and ambitious work ethic in intellectual pursuits that leads to them outperforming other social groups at a disproportionate rate in certain fields of endeavour. For instance, Jews earn lots of Nobel Prizes:

Nobel Prizes have been awarded to over 881 individuals,[2] of whom 196 - over 22% - were Jewish or people of Jewish descent,[Note 1] although Jews and people of Jewish descent comprise less than 0.2% of the world's population [3] (or 1 in every 500 people). Overall, Jews or people of Jewish descent have won a total of 41% of all the Nobel Prizes in economics, 28% of medicine, 26% of physics, 19% of chemistry, 13% of literature and 9% of all peace awards.[4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_Nobel_laureates

A rabbi writing for the Huff Post gives his personal response to your question:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-evan-moffic/why-are-there-so-many-jew_b_9482630.html

What's even more of a paradox is how some atheist kooks on here come to the rescue of these so-called persecuted chosen people of God.

Not just atheists but probably most religionists realize that no particular group of people are uniquely evil. During WWII, Germans perpetrated the Jewish Holocaust and the prolific murder of Poles, Russians and other disapproved of groups but the Germans aren't uniquely evil. White Europeans have bestrode the world in recent centuries enslaving foreign people and destroying indigenous cultures but white Europeans and their descendants aren't uniquely evil. They've behaved badly under certain historical conditions that mostly seem unlikely to reoccur because we're in a better, more historically and scientifically educated place. The internet should help with this but also it gives people easy access to lots of fake news and racist, conspiracy and antisemitic websites and blogs like the ones you seem fond of.

In preference to your dodgy website sources about the role of Jews in the American slave trade, I'd go for this one. It's from The American Historical Association:

AHA Council Issues Policy Resolution about Jews and the Slave Trade
AHA Staff, March 1995

In January 5, 1995, during the AHA's annual meeting in Chicago, the Council of the Association passed the following policy resolution relating to the alleged role of Jews in the slave trade:

The AHA deplores any misuse of history that distorts the historical record to demonize or demean a particular racial, ethnic, religious, or cultural group. The Association therefore condemns as false any statement alleging that Jews played a disproportionate role in the exploitation of slave labor or in the Atlantic slave trade.
The AHA Council's action was taken in response to a statement on this issue submitted to the Council by historians David Brion Davis (Yale Univ.) and Seymour Drescher (Univ. of Pittsburgh), noted experts on the history of slavery and antislavery movements. The Council decided to publish the Davis-Drescher statement, along with its own policy resolution, in the March 1995 issue of Perspectives. In addition, the Council's policy resolution and the Davis-Drescher statement were released to the press on February 8, 1995. The Davis-Drescher statement follows:

During the past few years there have been a number of egregious assaults on the historical record in institutions of higher learning and at educational conferences. These assaults implicate Jews as a dominant group in the Atlantic slave trade and the enslavement of Africans in the New World. The claims so misrepresent the historical record, however, that we believe them only to be part of a long anti-Semitic tradition that presents Jews as negative central actors in human history. In such scenarios, Jews are the secret force behind every major social development from capitalism to democracy, every major cataclysm from the Medieval Pandemic of the plague through the French and Russian Revolutions to the collapse of Communism, and now, incredibly, appear for the first time, as the secret force behind slavery. Unfortunately, the media have given the latest charges wide currency, while failing to dismiss them as spurious. As professional historians, who have closely examined and assessed the empirical evidence, we cannot remain silent while the historical record is so grossly violated.

Atlantic slavery was an intercontinental enterprise extending over nearly four centuries. Ethnically, the participants included Arabs, Berbers, scores of African ethnic groups, Italians, Portu guese, Spaniards, Dutch, Jews, Germans, Swedes, French, English, Danes, white Americans, Native Americans, and even thousands of New World people of African descent who became slaveholding farmers or planters themselves. Since Portugal and Spain barred Jews from their empires, and since, by the 16th century most of the Jews who weren't either killed or converted in Western Europe had fled east ward, it was impossible for Jews to play more than a marginal role in a vast system that attracted tens of thousands of pagans, Muslims, Catholics, and Protestants. Even in Holland and the Dutch colonies, where Jews were allowed to make their main "contribution" to New World slavery as merchants and planters, they always formed a minority. Similarly, Jews played only a nominal role in the slave system in the American South. Never more than a tiny fraction of the white population, they never formed more than a minuscule proportion of slaveholders.
https://www.historians.org/publications-and-directories/perspectives-on-history/march-1995/aha-council-issues-policy-resolution-about-jews-and-the-slave-trade



[Edited 2/17/2017 12:54:17 PM ]

2/17/2017 2:15:27 PM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 3  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (32,110)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


Quote from paulrxp:


This is going to be an utter shock to you but my best friends are Jews, protestants and atheists. They actually get a good dose of what I write on here so there is no hypocrisy whatsoever. The tone may be different, but I'll tell them flat out the errors of their beliefs and I gladly take it on the chin when they try to rip me about Catholicism. Defending the actions of Catholics, especially the politicians may be the most difficult thing though, not the history or the teachings of the faith.

Anyways, I do agree with what you touched on about that priest. I'll throw something at you and not even going to argue. I'd rather just get your take on it. There's been little to nothing mentioned about this very special year, the 500th year anniversary of the Protestant Reformation. There's a deafening hush though in the protestant world, maybe only the Lutherans are really celebrating it. All non-Catholics should be rejoicing, since this really marked the end of Christendom in Europe.

Now theory I've heard. The nations that were founded by the protestants, or became protestant eventually become less Christian, more secular, or altogether pagan, what do you think?


I think there is a growing sense even among Protestants that Martin Luther was, far from being a hero, a scoundrel. I think that might be due to the fact that mainline Protestantism is rapidly becoming a thing of the past---people are getting tired of the weak slop taught in these "churches". Fundamentalist Protestantism is growing by leaps and bounds because they have solid beliefs (a lot of them wrong beliefs, but at least they have a certain surety of faith), and the Fundies have never seen Luther as the hero that mainline Protestants do. Many Fundies are aware, for instance, that Luther tried to throw James, Hebrews, and Revelation out of the Bible. (Can you imagine a Fundamentalist preacher going a month without preaching from Revelation?) So maybe we can go through this year without having to listen to too much Luther-is-the-greatest crap.

2/17/2017 2:48:14 PM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 3  
paulrxp
Miami, FL
49, joined Aug. 2014


Quote from lordclarence:
.
n preference to your dodgy website sources about the role of Jews in the American slave trade, I'd go for this one. It's from The American Historical Association:


Well like you said, we have information today that the masses haven't had for many centuries. And the validity of the source or any opposing view of what transpired isn't controlled any more by any particular group that may not be painted in the best light.

Here's a fake image from a "dodgy source" from that questionable, enlightened time of American and European history.



2/17/2017 2:52:09 PM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 3  
lordclarence
South Yorkshire
United Kingdom
59, joined Mar. 2013


That counts as an individual instance of a Jewish person selling slaves. No one claims that Jews didn't participate in the slave trade - only that their part in it was not disproportionately large and dominant as your antisemitic conspiracy blogs claim.

2/17/2017 3:34:21 PM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 3  
paulrxp
Miami, FL
49, joined Aug. 2014


Quote from lordclarence:
That counts as an individual instance of a Jewish person selling slaves. No one claims that Jews didn't participate in the slave trade - only that their part in it was not disproportionately large and dominant as your antisemitic conspiracy blogs claim.



That was one of many instances, that would fill this entire thread.

Now from a Jewish source that(as usual) always paints their own in the most positive of light:

In sum, early America’s Jewish inhabitants began with a set of plans and expectations they ultimately jettisoned because of the realities they encountered in the New World. We may conclude that they were pioneers and innovators who not only forged new directions for Jews in the modern world generally, but also contributed to the slow but steady evolution of democracy in the United States of America.


source: NOT FAKE - https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-by-era/religion-and-eighteenth-century-revivalism/essays/early-america%E2%80%99s-jewish-settlers

The point of that source is not to emphasize that the word 'slave' is barely mentioned, but that the source acknowledges the 'minuscule' population that no one is challenging. A Jewish source confirms how few they were in numbers

If excoriated everywhere else in New England for its embrace of religious toleration, religious freedom was probably one of the calculations that drew the Jewish newcomers to the small colony, though the potential for overseas trade at Newport was perhaps decisive. Accordingly, they engaged in commerce, established a cemetery in Newport in 1677, and were augmented by an additional ninety or so settlers in the early 1690s


They also repeat several times how the Jews disappeared from the record, confirming even more how few they were. Conspiracy kook sites do not have to come up with many instances of their integral involvement in the slave trade. It's shocking how much there is. It's only anti-semetic when our jewish friends do not control the narrative.

No one has their hands clean during the African Slave trade era not Christian,Deist, Catholic, Jews, European African or Arab. The sooner everyone owns up to what they did the closer we'll arrive at the truth. My beef with one particular group is they will not acknowledge their part, and others like yourself turn a blind eye to it. You want us to acknowledge the Holocaust, then by all means, do not get uptight when now you're being reminded of your integral role in profiting off the slave trade.

2/17/2017 9:58:03 PM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 3  
lordclarence
South Yorkshire
United Kingdom
59, joined Mar. 2013


.
Quote from paulrxp:
Conspiracy kook sites do not have to come up with many instances of their integral involvement in the slave trade. It's shocking how much there is. It's only anti-semetic when our jewish friends do not control the narrative.

My Article from the American Historical Association clearly states that Jews were among the groups who participated in the slave trade. Are you suggesting that this respected source represents Jews controlling the narrative? It isn't unusual for conspiracy theorists to lack respect for establishment sources of scholarship and denounce them as being part of the conspiracy, so that effectively their theories are insulated from all possibility of disproof in their own minds. Good luck with that.

BTW, I was slightly intrigued by this panel you must have lifted from an antisemitic hate blog site. I'm guessing "JEWISH CONTROL OVER AMERICAN SLAVERY" isn't from Elizabeth Donnan's book but is an editorial comment from whoever designed the natty information panel. Have you read Donnan's four volume book series? Could you give us the page where the info comes from so that I can examine the context of what's being said?

                            



[Edited 2/17/2017 9:58:34 PM ]

2/17/2017 11:56:45 PM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 3  
paulrxp
Miami, FL
49, joined Aug. 2014


Quote from lordclarence:
My Article from the American Historical Association clearly states that Jews were among the groups who participated in the slave trade. Are you suggesting that this respected source represents Jews controlling the narrative? It isn't unusual for conspiracy theorists to lack respect for establishment sources of scholarship and denounce them as being part of the conspiracy, so that effectively their theories are insulated from all possibility of disproof in their own minds. Good luck with that.


The Jews were one of the groups involved in the slave trade, we already mentioned all the other groups involved, including your ancestors as well, The whole discussion I had with Lud is about a minuscule populations involvement in an evil practice. What is the conspiracy to you? That it's impossible that a small group of people could be so involved in a evil practice that was so widespread? Ok, I want you to amuse us with your historic scholarship. If I were to conclude that your white European ancestors were overwhelming responsible for perpetuating slavery in the new world, would you say that was accurate or not? Second, would you think I was anti-European? And if you really want to get into scholarly sources devoid of fake news and info. Are you ready to defend the Talmudic Jews beliefs that blacks are an inferior race?