Rebuttal To "Is Hell for all eternity?"

5/12/2017 6:49:25 PM	Rebuttal To "Is Hell for all eternity?"
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 64, joined Oct. 2007	The bashingdoc is at it again with his particular brand of Christianity, that is not Scriptural. In ludlow's thread "Is Hell for all eternity?" it kinda like Twiddledee and Twidledah pretending to read the Bible. Quote from brashdoc: Prior to connecting the dots illustration, to get the in-depth points I have made so far on the topic of the nature of God & His character... He still thinks that Bible study is a game. Connect the dots? I did that when I was 5. Some people never grow up. Quote from brashdoc: Does Judaism Believe in Life After Death? Once you read, 'Jewish Views of the Afterlife' by Rabbi Dr. Simcha Paull Raphael, you will never again say 'no' in answer to this question. Right off the bat, he has botched up What the Bible does and does not say. The Jews in the Bible did NOT believe in an after-life. There were other religions that did. Egypt and Greek & Roman Mythology both had a form of after-life. We call these religions "pagan" today. The Jews split up into 71-72 movements or "sects." The Jews do not like to use that word "sect." But each one thinks they are right and all the others will be punished. http://www.judaism-islam.com/questions/how-many-jewish-sects-are-there/ Here is "the question" ludlow asks in the thread "A question for those who do not believe in Hell." I still can't get over that the quacker has teamed up with ludlow. Perhaps he will adopt "purgatory" and "limbo" as well. Quote from ludlowlowell: If there is no Hell for humans, if God forgives all and lets all go to Heaven, or if unrepentant sinners merely cease to exist when they pass this life, what about the devil and the other fallen angels? Are they in Hell? Will they all go to Hell one day? What about them? ludlow assumes that you buy some of the basic Catholic philosophies, like an after-life and the two (or more) places there. There are at least 4 questions, and the first one has to be broken up into at least 3. 1. God forgive all and lets all go to Heaven. Of course, this is false. The Scriptures say that we sleep until Jesus returns and we all are resurrected. Then those of us He deems righteous live on the Earth in our new immortal bodies for 1000 years. After that those who did not make the grade will be resurrected and judged. Their "sinful nature" will be burned away by the Lake of Fire and all will enter the New Heaven or the New Earth. 2. Unrepentant sinners. ludlow like to make a point of these. I think it's a self-righteous thing with him. He hopes that if he is sorry enough God will let him into heaven. Of course, this is not Scriptural and ludlow is taking portions of Catholic doctrine and mixing them with his own "special" brand of logic. 3. God forgives sinners. Of course, God forgives sinners. He sent His Son to do just that. And not everyone will enjoy the time with Jesus during the Millennium. So there will be punishment. But in the end, all will be saved. 4. What of the devil. There is nothing in the Scriptures that says the devil, or satan, will be saved. Those who try to decide their fate are doing so based on their own theories, and not Scripture. 5. Are they in "hell"? Of course not. There is no "hell" in the Bible. There is no Ancient word that can be translated as "hell" like we use it in English. ludlow has tried hard to get around this fact. He has even made a few up and tried to pass them off as Biblical. This seems to be a Catholic trick as there was another Catholic here who tried to pass off Modern Greek for Ancinet Greek. 6. What will happen to satan and his devils? The Scriptures is not clear about this. I could make something up, but that is not my style. So the quacker and ludlow are foiled again. Quote from brashdoc: Until long after the exile, the Jewish people shared the view of the entire ancient world that the dead continue to exist in a shadowy realm of the nether world where they live a dull, ghostly existence. A number of expressions are used to refer to the realm of the dead. "doc" is wrong here. Not all Jews did this. I am sure some did pick up portions of the religion held by Rome and Egypt. But the Bible also speaks of the faithful remnant of Israel. I am sure this Rabbi Dr. Simcha Paull Raphael knows his "movement" or sect of the Jews. But what of the other 70 movements? So his views reflect their beliefs too? I don't think so. Quote from brashdoc: One single act of sin through one man brought the reign of sin & death & condemnation to all mankind... This quacker like to embellish what the Bible says... CLV Ro 5:12 Therefore, even as through one man sin entered into the world, and through sin death, and thus death passed through into all mankind, on which all sinned-- I don't see the word "condemnation" in this verse. Perhaps he has been reading the 15 verses that the KJV changed the word "judging" to "condemnation" or "damnation." How Judgment has changed https://DateHookup.dating/thread-707758.htm A few very confused people. There simply is no "hell" in the Scirptures, although this quacker and some others insist that there is. They have tried to fit 'gehenna,' 'hades,' and the Lake of Fire into "hell," much like trying to fit a round peg into a square hole. Their understanding of the nature of God is like the prize they discover in their Cracker Jack box. I have always felt that those who insist there is a "hell" are sick and twisted in the head. Why would anyone want to see the suffering of others? What psychosis would make them applaud that kind of suffering? Sickos. Time to quit playing games and do some real Bible Research, boys. Here is what Paul said about "rightly dividing the word of Truth"... CLV 2Ti 1:13 Have a pattern of sound words, which you hear from me, in faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. "hell" is NOT a sound word. It was never used by Jesus nor Paul. CLV Mt 22:29 Now, answering, Jesus said to them, "You are deceived, not being acquainted with the scriptures, nor yet with the power of God. Meet singles at DateHookup.dating, we're 100% free! Join now!
5/17/2017 8:55:07 PM	Rebuttal To "Is Hell for all eternity?"
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 64, joined Oct. 2007	Quote from ludlowlowell: Riquezas, read the parable od Lazarus and the rich man and you will see that Hell is indeed for all eternity. "Eternity" is not a word that is used in the NT. Some English versions translate it that way. But closer rendering of it is "age" or "eon." Each of these ages have a beginning and an ending. Also, remember, for something to be "eternal" it must not have a beginning. Check out... The Rich Man and Lazarus... Literal or Figurative? https://DateHookup.dating/Thread-600953.htm ludlow was never able to understand it.
5/18/2017 12:17:19 PM	Rebuttal To "Is Hell for all eternity?"
virgomoon Greenwood, IN 63, joined May. 2010	bump
5/18/2017 12:20:47 PM	Rebuttal To "Is Hell for all eternity?"
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 64, joined Oct. 2007	"hell" is a tool that some churches use to try to scare people into submission to their church. Much like the Jedi mind trick, it only works on the weak-minded. Quote from brashdoc: Rev 14:9-12 “If ANYONE worships the beast & its image & receives its mark on his forehead or hand, 10he too will drink the wine of God’s anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be TORMENTED IN FIRE & BRIMSTONE...The smoke of their torment will rise forever & ever. DAY & NIGHT THERE WILL BE NO REST for those who worship the beast & its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name. Here is a call for the endurance of the saints who KEEP the commandments of God and the FAITH of Jesus. CLV Re 14:9 And another, a third messenger, follows them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone is worshiping the wild beast and its image, and is getting an emblem on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he, also, is drinking out of the wine of the fury of God, blended undiluted in the cup of His indignation, and he shall be tormented in fire and sulphur in the sight of the holy messengers and in the sight of the Lambkin. 11 And the fumes of their torment are ascending for the eons of the eons. And they are having not rest day and night, those worshiping the wild beast and its image, and if anyone is getting the emblem of its name. Not exactly what the bashingdoc said, is it? There are several things wrong with the bashingdoc's statement. The Bible describes events that will happen during a specific time... the Great Tribulation. No one is worshipping the wild beast. No one even knows who he is, yet. And there is certainly no one carrying his mark on their heads or hands today. The other main problem with what this bashingdoc says "their torment will rise forever & ever." The word "forever" can only be expressed in the negative in Ancient Greek. Unending might be an example. But this shows that the "forever" in this and many other Bible verses are mistranslated. _____Strong's_____ G165 aion ahee-ohn' from the same as G104; properly, an age; by extension, perpetuity (also past); by implication, the world; specially (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future). Compare G5550. Instead of "forever" the word that is more accurate is "age." An age can be 1000 years or more, but it does have a beginning and an ending. And again, "forever" means it has no beginning. The Keyword Concordance defines 'aion' as... the longest segment of time known in the Scriptures. Seven distinct divisions are indicated, pre-eonian times (2Tim. 11:9), five eons, two of which are future (called the eons of the eons, Rev. 1:6), and time after the conclusion of the eons (Heb. 9:26). How can "forever" be plural? They just kinda sweep that under the rug in the KJV. The forevers of the forevers? I don't think so. The fact is, there is no "hell." There is no "eternal" punishment. There will be punishment, but it will not last forever. Quote from brashdoc: I hope that fills in the gaps, riquezas, to help you further understand. I do not seek to cause people to fear hell but as the writer of Hebrews says, to fear God, who will do this unless we repent and believe the good news! Basically what he is saying here is, nice to meet you but you are going to "hell." The "doc" is a pretty confused guy. He posts all this fire and brimstone stuff but then says, " I do not seek to cause people to fear hell." The what was he trying to do? There is no Ancient word for "hell." No one here in DH has come up with one. Which means that cannot be a word "hell" in the Scriptures. It just isn't there. So they substitute. Some say 'gehenna' is "hell." Of course, it is not. Gehenna is a ravine outside of Jerusalem. It was spoken of in the OT but never translated as "hell" there. Some substitute the Lake of Fire as "hell." Of course, it is not. There is no mention of anyone being destroyed there. And if you read Rev. 20:14, no one here has yet to explain how "hell" can be thrown into "hell." Quote from brashdoc: I need to stop right now but I will post more as time allows, especially on my connect the dots illustration. bashingdoc thinks of Bible Study as a game. But there are many of us who take it more seriously.
5/20/2017 12:23:04 PM	Rebuttal To "Is Hell for all eternity?"
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 64, joined Oct. 2007	In the thread "Is Hell for all eternity?" the bashingdoc is responding to some things the nubian said... Quote from brashdoc: I will start out with simple SPIRITUAL revelation in 3 points. However, it is more complex if we want to see the whole picture as revealed in Scripture. 1. People don't understand the nature of God as He reveals Himself in Scripture. 2. People don't understand the nature of man as God has revealed it in Scripture. 3. We would rather believe a lie than believe the truth. To justify these "spiritual revelations" he puts in parentheses "(Is 30:9-11)" I am not sure what it means. CLV Isa 30:9 For a rebellious people are they, sons of dissimulations, sons who would not hearken to the law of Yahweh, 10 who say to the seers, "You shall not direct us!" And to the vision seers, "You shall not perceive correctives for us! Speak to us slick things, perceive trifles. 11 Withdraw from the way, turn aside from the path. Eradicate from our face the Holy One of Israel." This passage does NOT reflect what he said it would. Furthermore, his three "spiritual" points are not listed in Isaiah 30:9-11. These verses are more about the rebellious nature of men rather than what men want to believe. These "spiritual revelations" are no such thing. And they are certainly not Scriptural. Perhaps he thinks of himself as a god who can produce "spiritual" lessons at will. Perhaps he is just a fool. Quote from brashdoc: Our words reveal & reflect our thinking & reasoning. (Prov 23:17; 15:28; Jer 17:9,10; James 1:26) Rather than answering his questions, or explaining his beliefs, the bashingdoc tries to criticize HOW this question is asked. CLV Pr 23:17 Let not your heart be jealous of sinners, But rather be zealous for the fear of Yahweh all the day, CLV Pr 15:28 The heart of the righteous man cogitates on its answers, Yet the mouth of the wicked utters evil things. CLV Jer 17:9 Crooked [is] the heart above all things, And it [is] incurable--who does know it? 10 I Yahweh do search the heart, try the reins, Even to give to each according to his way, According to the fruit of his doings. CLV Ja 1:26 If anyone is seeming to be a ritualist, not bridling his tongue, but seducing his heart, the ritual of this one is vain, So basically he says he hopes he doesn't offend the nubian, but there is something wrong with him for asking such a question. Again, this "doc" must believe himself to be a god. How dare anyone question this deity. Quote from brashdoc: The first aspect of deception is to question God. In the first place, no one is questioning God. This man is questioning bashingdoc's understanding of the Scriptures. Which he has demonstrated is pretty poor. So the bashingdoc is saying that the nubian is a liar. Perhaps it is the bashingdoc who is lying. Quote from brashdoc: We have become so deceived & comfortable in our deception, that we don't recognize who is behind this: the father of lies & the murderer from the beginning, who hates God & all that He is & for which He stands. He hates the truth. He will do everything to malign God & distort the truth. But who it is that is being deceived? Who is it that is falling for words that do not exist, and have no Scriptural origins? Who's sick and twisted minds support the burning of anyone... and for eternity, no less? Perhaps this quacker believes he can sit on a cloud and watch as his neighbors, family, and fellow Christians burn over and over again. Kinda like watching the reruns of Mayberry. Pretty sick, doc. But this has been pretty typical attitude among the clergy. I had hoped they learned better, and many of them have. I don't run into this type of attitude very often today. The smarter and more caring clergy find ways to serve the public rather than condemn them. The old "fire and brimstone" speeches are a thing of the past. People are wise to those deceptions. I do smell mindy.
5/21/2017 11:12:00 PM	Rebuttal To "Is Hell for all eternity?"
virgomoon Greenwood, IN 63, joined May. 2010	bumper
5/21/2017 11:15:18 PM	Rebuttal To "Is Hell for all eternity?"
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 64, joined Oct. 2007	Quote from brashdoc: Though God may be cognizant of what is going on in Sheol/Hades or Gehenna/Lake of fire, that does not mean He makes His presence known there or manifests Himself, since He is light. We cannot hide from God but God can hide from us. (Job 34:29; Is 45:15) First off 'sheol/hades' are symbolic places. The soul of the dead also dies, according to scripture. CLV Num 23:10 Who counts the soil-drift of Jacob? And who numbers the dust cloud of Israel? May my soul die the death of the upright, and may my hereafter be just as his! CLV Ezk 18:4 Lo, all the souls are Mine, As the soul of the father, So also the soul of the son--they are Mine, The soul that is sinning--it does die. It is just another way of saying he/she is dead. 'Gehenna' is NOT the Lake of Fire. That is not provable. Neither 'gehenna' nor the lake of fire are in use until AFTER the Millennium. And so far no one can say what 'gehenna' is used for. But it is not the lake of fire, nor "hell." If 'gehenna' is more than just a valley, why is it not represented that way in the OT? CLV Josh. 15:8 and the border has gone up the valley of the son of Hinnom, unto the side of the Jebusite on the south (it [is] Jerusalem), and the border has gone up unto the top of the hill-country which [is] on the front of the valley of Hinnom westward, which [is] in the extremity of the valley of the Rephaim northward; Here this valley is used to mark a border. Nowhere is it called "the lake of fire" nor "hell" in the Bible. It seems the bashingdoc is making this up as he goes along. Still, you gotta wonder why he didn't answer Mr. nubian's questions instead of chastising him for asking them. Perhaps he doesn't know. For anyone to burn for all eternity is counter-productive. God's punishments are REFORMATORY. They are meant to reform the individual. How can one reform if he/she is locked up in an eternal fire? It makes no sense and is not in line with Scripture. Neither 'olam' nor 'aion' can be translated as "forever." 1. The servant who's ear was bored with an awl and became a servant "Forever"? How long did he live? Forever? AV Ex 21:6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever. CLV Ex 21:6 then his lord will bring him close to the elohim, and bring him close to the door or to the jamb, and his lord will bore his ear with an awl; and he will serve him for the eon. 2. And again... AV Dt 15:17 Then thou shalt take an aul, and thrust [it] through his ear unto the door, and he shall be thy servant for ever. And also unto thy maidservant thou shalt do likewise. CLV Dt 15:17 Then you take an awl and put it through his ear and into the door, and he will come to be your eonian servant; and so you shall do to your maidservant too. 3. A similar instance where "all thy days" means 'forever'? AV Dt 23:6 Thou shalt not seek their peace nor their prosperity all thy days for ever. CLV Dt 23:6 You shall neither inquire after their welfare nor their good all your days for the eon. 4. And when Jehovah speaks of the leviathan, can Job tame him 'forever'? AV Jb 41:4 Will he make a covenant with thee? wilt thou take him for a servant for ever? CLV Jb 41:4 Would he contract a covenant with you That you may take him as a servant for the eon? 5. Solomon's reign as king was 40 years... AV 1Ch 22:10 He shall build an house for my name; and he shall be my son, and I [will be] his father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel for ever. CLV 1Ch 22:10 he does build a house to My name, and he is to Me for a son, and I [am] to him for a father, and I have established the throne of his kingdom over Israel unto the eon. 6. The temple existed for how long? AV 1Ki 8:13 I have surely built thee an house to dwell in, a settled place for thee to abide in for ever. CLV 1Ki 8:13 I have surely built a house of habitation for You; a fixed place for Your abiding to the eons.' AV 1Ki 9:3 And the LORD said unto him, I have heard thy prayer and thy supplication, that thou hast made before me: I have hallowed this house, which thou hast built, to put my name there for ever; and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually. CLV 1Ki 9:3 and Yahweh said unto him, `I have heard your prayer and your supplication with which you have made supplication before Me; I have hallowed this house that you have built to put My name there--unto the eon, and Mine eyes and My heart have been there all the days. 7. The Ammonite and the Moabite are not allowed into the congregation 'forever'? AV Ne 13:1 On that day they read in the book of Moses in the audience of the people; and therein was found written, that the Ammonite and the Moabite should not come into the congregation of God for ever; CLV Ne 13:1 On that day there was read in the book of Moses, in the ears of the people, and it has been found written in it that an Ammonite and Moabite does not come into the assembly of Elohim--unto the eon, 8. The 'forever' in the above verse is defined as the lifetime of ten generations. Not a very long 'forever'. AV Dt 23:3 An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the LORD for ever: 4 .Because they met you not with bread and with water in the way, when ye came forth out of Egypt; and because they hired against thee Balaam the son of Beor of Pethor of Mesopotamia, to curse thee. 5. Nevertheless the LORD thy God would not hearken unto Balaam; but the LORD thy God turned the curse into a blessing unto thee, because the LORD thy God loved thee. CLV Dt 23:3 No Ammonite or Moabite shall come into the assembly of Yahweh. Even the tenth generation from them shall not come into the assembly of Yahweh for the eon, 4. on the score that they did not succor you with bread and with water along the main road when you came forth from Egypt and that they hired against you Balaam son of Beor, from Pethor, Aram-naharayim, to maledict you. 5. But Yahweh your Elohim would not hearken to Balaam. And Yahweh your Elohim turned the malediction into a blessing for you, for Yahweh your Elohim loves you. More questions this "doc" is not able to answer.
5/23/2017 9:19:48 AM	Rebuttal To "Is Hell for all eternity?"
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 64, joined Oct. 2007	Quote from brashdoc: You have done well in choosing not to engage them or allow them to promote their dangerous heretical teaching through dialoguing with them, giving them a platform for gross error & blaspheming our dear Savior & His Word & His people. CLV Ti 3:9 Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and genealogies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain. 10 A sectarian man, after one and a second admonition, refuse, 11 being aware that such a one has turned himself out, and is sinning, being self-condemned. Though this is the Greek hairetikon, it does not refer to a heretic, but one who belongs to a sect. It is applied to the Sadducees (Acts 5:17), the Pharisees (Acts 15:5, 26:5), and the Nazarenes (Acts 2:45). These could not all be called heretics. Sectarianism is essentially preferring to associate with a class or clique. The Circumcisionists would readily prefer their kind. Verse 10 is not about "heretical teaching." Much like the word "hell," the word "heretic" is not in the Bible. It must be interpreted there. Merriam-Webster defines a sectarian as... "limited in character or scope" But isn't this what the bashingdoc is promoting? He is choosing those who agree with his own beliefs and trying to berate those who do not. He is trying to form a class or clique. And by doing so has set himself up as some type of judge. And yet, Christ's words are so clear on that... CLV Mt 7:1 "Do not judge, lest you may be judged, Still, this "doc" has not been able to come up with the Ancient term for "hell." He has not proven that there is a "hell" in the Scriptures. No one here has. Quote from brashdoc: I will answer your posts in the future, a_nubian, in my thread on Acts 17:11 & Heb 13:1. He has yet to answer any of the nubiam's posts. All he has done is try to judge him for asking questions. What a maroon.
5/24/2017 2:10:09 PM	Rebuttal To "Is Hell for all eternity?"
virgomoon Greenwood, IN 63, joined May. 2010	bumper
5/24/2017 2:12:38 PM	Rebuttal To "Is Hell for all eternity?"
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 64, joined Oct. 2007	Quote from clarity101: The Bible says that hell is eternal (Matthew 25:46). Actually, that is not true. The word "hell" is not mentioned in the verse you posted. CLV Mt 25:46 And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian. The word "hell" is not in the Bible. There is no Ancient term for "hell." Most English versions have eliminated that word and replaced it with something more accurate. There is no "everlasting punishment." No "eternal damnation." These are not Scriptural concepts. You can't just make up words and add them to the Bible. CLV Re 22:18 "I am testifying to everyone who is hearing the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If ever anyone may be appending onto them, God shall be appending onto him the calamities written in this scroll. Quote from clarity101: What it comes down to is this—if a person wants to be separated from God for eternity, CLV Ps 139:8 If I should climb to the heavens, You are there, And should I make my berth in the unseen, behold, You are there.
5/27/2017 9:41:47 AM	Rebuttal To "Is Hell for all eternity?"
bigd9832 Chicago, IL 64, joined Oct. 2007	Hades Is Not "hell" Quote from brashdoc: Mt 11:23,24 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell [Hades]. For if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say unto you, that it shall be more bearable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee. Hellions love to talk about Sodom and Gomorrah, which is kinda illustrative of their sickness. How else can a sick and twisted mind view the Bible? The fact is that there are no "degrees of punishment" in "hell" because there is no "hell" in the Scriptures. But to say that there is no "hell" is not the same thing as saying there is no punishment. Of course, there is. But His punishments are reformative. They are corrective. What purpose can a punishment that lasts for eternity serve? "Eternity"? How can "eternity" have a beginning? God is love. He wants His children to enjoy His creation. CLV Lk 11:13 If you, then, being inherently wicked, are aware how to give good gifts to your children, how much rather will the Father Who is out of heaven, be giving holy spirit to those requesting Him!" God has no desire to punish mankind for all "eternity." That's just plain wrong. CLV Ro 11:32 For God locks up all together in stubbornness, that He should be merciful to all. CLV 1Ti 2:4 Who wills that all mankind be saved and come into a realization of the truth. CLV 1Ti 4:10 (for this are we toiling and being reproached), that we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind, especially of believers. According to the Jewish Encyclopedia, the word 'sheol' means... It connotes the place where those that had died were believed to be congregated. The word "Sheol" was for some time regarded as an Assyro-Babylonian loan-word, "Shu'alu," having the assumed meaning "the place whither the dead are cited or bidden," or "the place where the dead are ingathered." After all, 'sheol' is their word. It is Hebrew. And there is no mention of any punishment. But this quacker can say anything he likes about God and His punishments as he offers no evidence to support his claims. Since the word 'hell' is not used in the Ancient text, none of his Bible verses can be trusted. And there is still the matter of the word "judgment" being exchanged for "damnation" and "condemnation" in several places in the Bible. How Judgment has changed https://DateHookup.dating/thread-707758.htm Neither 'sheol,' nor 'hades,' nor 'gehenna,' nor "the Lake of Fire" can be "hell." There is no "hell" in the Scriptures.

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