How Ironic to use a torture scene?

10/1/2010 6:44:48 PM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
ashadeofred Lansing, MI 66, joined Dec. 2007	I have always found it so ironic that the Christian religion uses a torture scene as it's symbol. A man NAILED to a cross....slowly dying in pain. Personally, I find it quite sick. I am wondering if Christians would be as tolerant if another religion used a torture scene as it's symbol.....proudly and openly displayed it for the whole world to see? Your thoughts? Meet singles at DateHookup.dating, we're 100% free! Join now!
10/9/2010 7:44:40 PM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
duchessa Yonkers, NY 64, joined Aug. 2008	Quote from ashadeofred: I have always found it so ironic that the Christian religion uses a torture scene as it's symbol. A man NAILED to a cross....slowly dying in pain. Personally, I find it quite sick. I am wondering if Christians would be as tolerant if another religion used a torture scene as it's symbol.....proudly and openly displayed it for the whole world to see? Your thoughts? You have a point here.
10/11/2010 7:09:46 AM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
higgy5721 Murcia Spain 66, joined Sep. 2010	Very good point!
10/13/2010 8:10:45 PM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
duchessa Yonkers, NY 64, joined Aug. 2008	Quote from higgy5721: Very good point! And nobody says it better than George Carlin. ¡Lástima que haya fallecido!
10/14/2010 7:34:04 PM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
ashadeofred Lansing, MI 66, joined Dec. 2007	Thanks Duchessa....Love George Carlin!! I have always felt that you really have to be superstitous to be religious.
10/15/2010 5:14:47 PM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
duchessa Yonkers, NY 64, joined Aug. 2008	Quote from ashadeofred: Thanks Duchessa....Love George Carlin!! I have always felt that you really have to be superstitous to be religious. No, no need to be superticious.....only ignorant.
10/17/2010 1:56:22 PM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
fsupaul Clinton Township, MI 25, joined Oct. 2010	Great point!
11/7/2010 9:25:46 PM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
chukkdog El Cajon, CA 32, joined Oct. 2010	I dont believe in god but perhaps they show it the way they do to show the pain and sacrafice jesus made for everyone elses sins. Obviously it seems more of a sacrafice bc of the way he died instead of, say he if hung himself. Just me tho
11/11/2010 12:22:47 PM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
funches Chicago, IL 62, joined Nov. 2009	Quote from ashadeofred: I have always found it so ironic that the Christian religion uses a torture scene as it's symbol. A man NAILED to a cross....slowly dying in pain. Personally, I find it quite sick. I am wondering if Christians would be as tolerant if another religion used a torture scene as it's symbol.....proudly and openly displayed it for the whole world to see? Your thoughts? what Christians fail to realize is that they are breaking the Second Commandment The Second Commandment reads: Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God
11/23/2010 2:06:46 PM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
izzotheschizo Des Plaines, IL 37, joined Oct. 2010	lmao at red. I think the whole idea of scraficeing your life and to then be worshipped because of it makes no sense. I know what it is like to get punished for something I didnt do. It was a very painful experience.
11/27/2010 6:08:22 AM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
gizziey_sykes Muskegon, MI 27, joined Aug. 2010	i personally thought that religion was about your self center, your mind, not making idols out of something we never knew really happened. basing your life off of a stick, a book and someone invisible..? sounds like a crazy person to me.
11/27/2010 6:09:22 AM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
gizziey_sykes Muskegon, MI 27, joined Aug. 2010	i also find it quite ironic that christians warship a jew.
11/28/2010 2:23:13 AM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
bluestones Oak Grove, KY 40, joined Jul. 2010	I find it ironic that more people have been slaughtered in the name of religeon than any other single cause.
12/21/2010 9:50:48 PM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
nocharge Houston, TX 60, joined Dec. 2010	FUNCHES, WHAT YOU DONT KNOW CAN HURT YOU: ‘You Must Not Bow Down to a Carved Image’ MANY church buildings are filled with images of Jesus, of Mary and of the “saints.” Hundreds of people are seen daily bowing down before these images, particularly in Roman Catholic lands. People thus bowing down profess to be bound by the Ten Commandments, yet one of these says: “You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or that is on the earth underneath or that is in the waters under the earth. You must not bow down to them nor be induced to serve them, because I Jehovah your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion.”—Ex. 20:4, 5. Now, since it is obvious that the images are like something either in the heavens, on the earth, or in the waters of the sea, and since people bow down to them, one might naturally conclude that here there is a violation of one of the Ten Commandments. But not so, replies Cardinal Gibbons in The Faith of Our Fathers. According to him, “Every Catholic child clearly comprehends the essential difference which exists between a Pagan idol and a Christian image. The Pagans looked upon an idol as a god endowed with intelligence and the other attributes of the Deity. They were therefore idolaters, or image worshipers. Catholic Christians know that a holy image has no intelligence or power to hear and help them. They pay it a relative respect—that is, their reverence for the copy is proportioned to the veneration which they entertain for the heavenly original to which it is also referred.” But is it true that merely relative worship is accorded to images? No, it is not, as the following will show. Does the guidebook for the famous cathedral at Chartres, France, for example, say, “Mary is worshiped by means of an image called ‘Our Lady of the Crypt’?” No, but it reads, “For many centuries Our Lady of the Crypt [an image there] has accepted the homage of her votaries.” Besides, if it were true that the image is just to remind the worshiper of the particular “saint” to which he is praying, then any image of the one being prayed to would serve the same purpose. But it is a well-known fact that some images receive far more veneration than do others, some are considered far more efficacious, certain ones draw far larger crowds, and particular statues are often invoked for particular things. Thus the guidebook at Chartres also says: “Our Lady of the Belle Verrière was once an object of veneration, and particularly invoked by women before childbirth.” Another instance that may be cited is the prominence of the image of “Jesus of Medinaceli” in the holy week processions by devout Spanish Catholics. Cardinal Gibbons may distinguish between an image and an idol and insist that an image is merely an aid to worship, but when pilgrimages are made to a particular image, then the image has taken on a value of its own, in direct violation of God’s command against giving honor to a graven thing. That pilgrimages are made to particular images is shown by the Grand Dictionnaire Universal du XIXe Siècle (Larousse), Volume 12, page 519: “One day a hundred and ten deputies accomplished a pilgrimage to the Black Virgin at Chartres.” In fact, this same encyclopedic dictionary truthfully says in Volume 9, page 574: “Idolatry signifies nothing else, etymologically speaking, than the worship of images. The most ancient Fathers of the Church formally forbade sculptured or painted representations in the temples and in all places where prayers were offered. It was toward the third or fourth century that the Church began to let go, in this regard, of its severity. . . . These representations of persons, of mysteries and of religious facts, promptly became objects of adoration, veritable idols, especially in the West.” MORE THAN RELATIVE HONOR If images are accorded merely relative honor, then all images of Jesus would be accorded the same honor, and images of him should be accorded more honor than those of anyone else. But not so. Certain images have miraculous powers attributed to them. Thus the book Pèlerinages célèbres aux Principaux Sanctuaires de Notre-Dame, by the Society of Saint Augustine, speaks, not of the “saints,” but of the images themselves as being miraculous. It says that St. Louis gave to the basilica at Puy “a miraculous statue that he had brought back from the holy land.” And it calls the images of Notre-Dame de Grâce at Lille “miraculous” images. Showing further that the images were not just to remind people of the one to whom they were praying, but were considered to have value themselves, it says of Mater Boni Consilii (Holy Mother of Good Counsel) in Gensano, near Rome: “One encounters miraculous copies of the holy image in Spain, Belgium, Bohemia, Austria and America. The Augustinians and the Redemptorists work with the desire to spread the worship of Our Lady of Good Counsel and in every place where they erect altars to her crowds flock and heavenly favors multiply.” Catholic authorities grant that in the eighth century of our Christian era some Catholics gave images more than relative honor in that they kissed the images and expected the images to heal the sick and stop a fire or a flood by some sort of magic. But twelve centuries later we find this more than relative honor still being accorded images. Anyone who has visited Saint Peter’s cathedral in Rome knows that devout Catholics still kiss statues, in particular the toe of a certain image of Peter. Incidentally, there is reason to believe that this particular statue of Peter was taken from the ancient Roman temple the Pantheon and originally was a statue erected to Jupiter by the pagan Romans! That even in modern times some sort of magic is attributed to these statues is evident from the Church-approved Mille Pèlerinages de Notre-Dame (A Thousand Pilgrimages to Our Lady), published in Paris under the Imprimatur Petrus Brot as recently as December 18, 1953. Of the image Notre-Dame de la Garde, it says in its third volume, page 108: “When the cholera came down with fury on Marseilles in 1832, the clergy and the people went up to the sanctuary and brought down the statue, took it through the city, and the terrible plague disappeared.” “THE CHRIST OF PITY” One of the most striking evidences that the images themselves are considered to have value is that prayers said before certain images were believed to have more value than prayers said before other images. To the point is the unusual story of the famous “Christ of Pity,” of the suffering Jesus. This image is quite likely responsible for much of the overbearing sadness of the religious art of the fifteenth century, in striking contrast with the great joy evinced by the apostles and other first-century Christians.—Luke 1:46-49; 1 Pet. 1:8. There were a number of such images showing Christ dead in the arms of Mary. But of a related one, showing Christ alone, dead and with his arms folded across his chest, Emile Male, a leading French authority on religious art, asks in l’Art Religieux de la fin du Moyen Âge en France, page 100:
12/31/2010 1:51:40 PM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
clearancesale Traverse City, MI 68, joined Dec. 2010	Funny; I'd always thought the same. An almost naked blue eyed long haired hippy looking obviously dead guy spiked to a cross with a big bad a** knife wound in his side is not something I'd want my kids to see. A book full of sex, violence, incest and mayhem and genocide is not a book I'd want my kids to read. Needless to say, neither of my boys were exposed to that disgusting image or pornographic book until much later in life and that was certainly not any of my doing. The religion is no different than the images portrayed and that bible needs warning labels and small children should not be exposed to it. I mean; seriously, what the hell is wrong with people?
1/1/2011 8:23:32 AM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
duchessa Yonkers, NY 64, joined Aug. 2008	Quote from clearancesale: Funny; I'd always thought the same. An almost naked blue eyed long haired hippy looking obviously dead guy spiked to a cross with a big bad a** knife wound in his side is not something I'd want my kids to see. A book full of sex, violence, incest and mayhem and genocide is not a book I'd want my kids to read. Needless to say, neither of my boys were exposed to that disgusting image or pornographic book until much later in life and that was certainly not any of my doing. The religion is no different than the images portrayed and that bible needs warning labels and small children should not be exposed to it. I mean; seriously, what the hell is wrong with people? Show the believers your post and they will tell you that YIOU are the pornographic one...the one full of violence. May be you should use one of your rocks on them...
1/7/2011 1:13:30 AM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
azmetalfan Mesa, AZ 39, joined Mar. 2009	Have you ever been to church? How about Sunday school? Now that is torture.
1/7/2011 5:39:57 AM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
duchessa Yonkers, NY 64, joined Aug. 2008	Quote from azmetalfan: Have you ever been to church? How about Sunday school? Now that is torture. To funeral / weddings...and only out of my love for the protagonist of the event.
1/7/2011 8:52:39 AM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
logic49 Union Grove, AL 68, joined Jun. 2010	Quote from azmetalfan: Have you ever been to church? How about Sunday school? Now that is torture. YEP.been there done that.my parents forced me to go. i thought it was HELL.
1/13/2011 5:21:26 PM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
clearancesale Traverse City, MI 68, joined Dec. 2010	Quote from azmetalfan: Have you ever been to church? How about Sunday school? Now that is torture. I was raised a catholic. Catholicism every Saturday with the Nuns that carried big sticks. Bruised knuckles on my hands more than once. Oh well, I threw up all over one of the Nuns one day when I was sick and should have been at home in bed. I was surprised I wasn't exercised for demons after that.
1/13/2011 7:07:38 PM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
ashadeofred Lansing, MI 66, joined Dec. 2007	Quote from azmetalfan: Have you ever been to church? How about Sunday school? Now that is torture. I was raised Luthern. Friday night consisted of having to learn memory work of bible passages, prayers, creeds.....and other lessons for catechism class Saturday morning. Church choir lessons Saturday afternoon. Saturday night more memory work for Sunday school class Sunday morning followed by church. I absolultely refused to go to youth group Sunday night!! Ironically, it was because of all this "exposure" that I came to the conclusion that I wanted nothing to do with anything so insufferably ridiculous. [Edited 1/13/2011 7:08:49 PM ]
1/13/2011 8:10:38 PM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
logic49 Union Grove, AL 68, joined Jun. 2010	Quote from ashadeofred: I was raised Luthern. Friday night consisted of having to learn memory work of bible passages, prayers, creeds.....and other lessons for catechism class Saturday morning. Church choir lessons Saturday afternoon. Saturday night more memory work for Sunday school class Sunday morning followed by church. I absolultely refused to go to youth group Sunday night!! Ironically, it was because of all this "exposure" that I came to the conclusion that I wanted nothing to do with anything so insufferably ridiculous. youth group was the only part of church i liked. that was the only place i could find a girl that would put out. i could tell they were highly religious cause they kept hollering OH GOD OH JESUS CHRIST THATS GOOD>> LMAO...
2/12/2011 12:27:55 PM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
tonyzero Mountain Home, ID 97, joined Apr. 2010	Being atheist doesn't mean being ignorant in the beliefs and perceptions of "Christians". As already stated, Christ on the cross is the image of the "Messiah" sacrificing himself and having his blood shed for those that would accept him as their savior. It's not a "torture" scene per say, just because atheists say it is. Secondly, the issue of the 2nd Commandment which is stated in this thread, is a misinterpretation of that Commandment. The correct interpretation held by most is that God was saying that worshiping one of the many man created gods was prohibited. Also, attempting to make any kind of image depicting himself, was also prohibited, as no one really knows what "God" likes like and any image would limit who he is, and therefore be a "false god". There is at least one large church organization which does exactly that. It wasn't warning against a statue, painting, etc. of Christ on the cross or any other image of Christ. God said "for I am a jealous God". God cannot be jealous of his own son, and images of Christ are meant to affix "honor" on Christ, and not worship. Okay, I'm an atheist, however I used to be a Christian and a pastor. The above in the proper interpretation of the 2nd commandment. That's all. I don't hold to any religious tenets or beliefs. Keep this straight if you want to try to bash me for this post.
2/12/2011 8:49:55 PM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
muldoon1959 Vallejo, CA 58, joined Feb. 2008	You're absolutely right. It isn't a torture scene simply because atheists say it's a torture scene. It's a torture scene because crucifixion was a horrific way to die. Sometimes taking days. The pain involved must have been excruciating. To the Romans of the time, this was merely a means of execution and probably a good way to cow the masses into submission. A great motivator I would think. "Do as your told or end up like them". What if the Romans would have chosen evisceration as their means of execution? Would that still be a torture scene if the christians had chosen for their symbol? How about impalement? Would that make a difference? The imagery of crucifixion may not be as graphic or violent, but in all the cases, he still would have died and suffered right? Died for your sins? So you see, a torture scene doesn't cease being a torture scene simply because christians have chosen it as symbol of their faith. So you see, a torture scene doesn't cease being a torture scene simply because christians have chosen it as symbol of their faith.
2/13/2011 10:25:56 AM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
tonyzero Mountain Home, ID 97, joined Apr. 2010	Quote from muldoon1959: So you see, a torture scene doesn't cease being a torture scene simply because christians have chosen it as symbol of their faith. So you see, a torture scene doesn't cease being a torture scene simply because christians have chosen it as symbol of their faith. Well, you're right. However, my point was directed to ashadeofred, which was the fact that Christians don't view it as a "torture scene". No where in the bible does it refer to it as simply as a torture scene. It's a misunderstanding that Christians choose that scene because it's violent and graphical, but that the "God's Word" uses it as a reference to the sufferings of Christ for them. Sorry for my lack of [u/clearly stating my case.
2/13/2011 12:05:32 PM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
muldoon1959 Vallejo, CA 58, joined Feb. 2008	Quote from ashadeofred: I have always found it so ironic that the Christian religion uses a torture scene as it's symbol. A man NAILED to a cross....slowly dying in pain. Personally, I find it quite sick. I am wondering if Christians would be as tolerant if another religion used a torture scene as it's symbol.....proudly and openly displayed it for the whole world to see? Your thoughts? I don't know about you, but I certainly don't see any mention of scripture in her comments. Just a simple observation and a question. Strip away your rationalization, and it is what it is. As for the whole second commandment thing, as much as you'd like to believe otherwise, and regardless of the intent, both the bible and the cross have become engraven images. Don't believe me? Try a simple test. Next time you're in church, take both a bible and a cross to the front of the congregation, hold them up and say "These are not god". Then drop them to the ground and crush them beneath your feet. If you see happy smiling faces with looks of agreement and understaning in their eyes, then your right. They're not engraven images. If on the other hand, you hear cries of blasphemy and sacrelidge, and the people have looks of outrage and anger in their eyes......... Explain and rationalize any way you want, but it's not about the intent of the objects. It's how the people feel about them in their hearts that count. After all, if adultry begins in the heart, then why not this?
2/14/2011 11:56:19 PM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
queenofhearts61 Seymour, IN 72, joined Mar. 2007	My understanding from reading the bybull is that, every place I have seen it mentioned, god demanded that nothing on earth was to be worshipped, only this invisible god. So why would that change to worshiping a man jesus? He said for them not to worship him but the father who is in heaven. Of course if you are making up a man-god then you might change that as many other things. Many years ago I heard someone say, about this symbol, that is someone shot my loved one, I sure wouldn't carry the gun around my neck or kiss it or worship with it.
4/10/2011 7:22:17 PM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
thewanderer33 Waldron, AR 71, joined Mar. 2011	ok I will get some flac but you should read the bible and the book of morman and the koran because as my company commander told me "the better you know your enemy the better your chances of beating him"and all those religions look at us as the enemy because we are not one of them!i don't belive everything I read but it helps to know how they think (or actualy don't think)if theirs is an all forgiving god why all the wars,pestulance ,floods ,murders and turning towns to waste.Not to forgiving if you ask me sounds like rule through fear it worked for romans nazis and the communists and it still works for the christians and muslims.the more fear you breed the more control you have over people thats why the cross is perfect for christians. any the moral of the story;you can break all the rules in the name of god(or allah)for the betterment of the faith
4/10/2011 8:03:45 PM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
geoffsfriend New Britain, CT 65, joined Dec. 2010	even as a very young child i could not believe. i still do not understand immaculate conception. how do you walk on water. the loaves of bread multiplied how with yeast ? as far as jesus in my thoughts is he was a "man" ahead of his time and thats really why he was punished. and of this god who but man wrote that "book".
4/13/2011 11:16:35 AM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
gjlover Grand Junction, CO 54, joined Aug. 2010	Quote from tonyzero: Being atheist doesn't mean being ignorant in the beliefs and perceptions of "Christians". As already stated, Christ on the cross is the image of the "Messiah" sacrificing himself and having his blood shed for those that would accept him as their savior. It's not a "torture" scene per say, just because atheists say it is. Secondly, the issue of the 2nd Commandment which is stated in this thread, is a misinterpretation of that Commandment. The correct interpretation held by most is that God was saying that worshiping one of the many man created gods was prohibited. Also, attempting to make any kind of image depicting himself, was also prohibited, as no one really knows what "God" likes like and any image would limit who he is, and therefore be a "false god". There is at least one large church organization which does exactly that. It wasn't warning against a statue, painting, etc. of Christ on the cross or any other image of Christ. God said "for I am a jealous God". God cannot be jealous of his own son, and images of Christ are meant to affix "honor" on Christ, and not worship. Okay, I'm an atheist, however I used to be a Christian and a pastor. The above in the proper interpretation of the 2nd commandment. That's all. I don't hold to any religious tenets or beliefs. Keep this straight if you want to try to bash me for this post. Not bashing you, but I saw parts of "The Passion" where they tortured and killed Jesus. If the events in the movie were meant to portray what really happened, then yes, it was torture. Where the god of the bible says not to worhsip the man made gods, sounds like it is banning worship of itself, as all gods are man made. If an image of Christ is the focus of prayer and worship, then it does smack up against the second ammendment. Then again, religon ignores logic even in it's own teachings to explain the inconsistencies in it's teachings. More of a Helical argument than a Circular argument if you think about it.
4/13/2011 12:19:57 PM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
yetiman22 Marshall, NC 25, joined Mar. 2011	Quote from azmetalfan: Have you ever been to church? How about Sunday school? Now that is torture. yeah went to a catholic church wore white shirt with ieahova (a.k.a. god) sucks on the front and satan rules on the back. i was 13 my grandpa still hasn't forgiven me. to be honest i was almost afraid of bursting into flames when i walked through the church doors. also i am an atheist have been so since i was about 8 years old. [Edited 4/13/2011 12:22:11 PM ]
4/18/2011 10:20:52 PM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
grignon Warrenville, IL 60, joined Oct. 2010	I think it's more of an intended object lesson for the less literate. "You see that! He's effin GOD and they nailed him to a tree! If you don't toe the line, what do thinks gonna happen to you? Can you walk on water? Change water into scotch? You got no leverage dealin' with evil. You'd best keep the guy with the holey hands on your side. AT least he got back up." Or so the story goes.
4/19/2011 9:34:15 AM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
gjlover Grand Junction, CO 54, joined Aug. 2010	Quote from grignon: You'd best keep the guy with the holey hands on your side. AT least he got back up." Or so the story goes. If he had back up, why did he get nailed to a cross?
7/14/2011 4:28:55 PM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
kinkaju Booneville, AR 71, joined Jun. 2011	Quote from grignon: I think it's more of an intended object lesson for the less literate. "You see that! He's effin GOD and they nailed him to a tree! If you don't toe the line, what do thinks gonna happen to you? Can you walk on water? Change water into scotch? You got no leverage dealin' with evil. You'd best keep the guy with the holey hands on your side. AT least he got back up." Or so the story goes. the only problem is the holeyhands thing its been proven that you can't nail someone to a cross thru the palms it wont support the weight of the human body because of the bone structure it had to be above the wrist to support the loads. sorry just a little logic here
7/14/2011 5:38:04 PM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
duchessa Yonkers, NY 64, joined Aug. 2008	Quote from kinkaju: the only problem is the holeyhands thing its been proven that you can't nail someone to a cross thru the palms it wont support the weight of the human body because of the bone structure it had to be above the wrist to support the loads. sorry just a little logic here The fact is that to use such scene shows the horrible mind of those who were behind this entire bull...
7/17/2011 11:58:59 AM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
kinkaju Booneville, AR 71, joined Jun. 2011	Quote from duchessa: The fact is that to use such scene shows the horrible mind of those who were behind this entire bull... . EXACTLY CORRECT
7/22/2011 7:59:40 PM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
kinkaju Booneville, AR 71, joined Jun. 2011	Quote from ashadeofred: I have always found it so ironic that the Christian religion uses a torture scene as it's symbol. A man NAILED to a cross....slowly dying in pain. Personally, I find it quite sick. I am wondering if Christians would be as tolerant if another religion used a torture scene as it's symbol.....proudly and openly displayed it for the whole world to see? Your thoughts? I have rarely seen toleration practice in christians period. before any one jumps on me for notice RARELY
8/21/2011 9:48:34 AM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
singledude1977 Bath, NY 40, joined Mar. 2011	Best video EVER. Quote from duchessa: And nobody says it better than George Carlin. ¡Lástima que haya fallecido!
8/21/2011 11:38:05 AM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
duchessa Yonkers, NY 64, joined Aug. 2008	Quote from grignon: I think it's more of an intended object lesson for the less literate. Wouldn't even better to say "Is an intended lesson to keep people illiterate"?
8/21/2011 12:20:12 PM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
kinkaju Booneville, AR 71, joined Jun. 2011	Quote from duchessa: Wouldn't even better to say "Is an intended lesson to keep people illiterate"? A forced lesson to keep populations illiterate and submissive
8/21/2011 3:21:33 PM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
duchessa Yonkers, NY 64, joined Aug. 2008	Quote from kinkaju: A forced lesson to keep populations illiterate and submissive You know...I don't even think they have to force it on them...the programming has been so successful that with a weekly touch the church's goals are there to stay.
8/21/2011 3:43:07 PM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
kinkaju Booneville, AR 71, joined Jun. 2011	It how they have gotten so big (threatining "you are going to hell") its inheirent in the dogma its the cornerstone of all they teach
8/21/2011 3:49:27 PM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
duchessa Yonkers, NY 64, joined Aug. 2008	Quote from kinkaju: It how they have gotten so big (threatining "you are going to hell") its inheirent in the dogma its the cornerstone of all they teach Yes, the guilt trip...but what amazes me the most is that in modern times...with all the knowledge gained and all the means to spread said knowledge... the church is still able to SUCCESSFULLY use the guilt approach. Many liso (flat) brains around.
8/21/2011 3:57:10 PM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
kinkaju Booneville, AR 71, joined Jun. 2011	Of course the minds have been forced (hammered) ! I can take a 19d nail and hammer it flat in a few seconds they have hammered brains for thousands of years logical thought has been hammered out of the flat brains [Edited 8/21/2011 3:59:02 PM ]
8/21/2011 4:10:29 PM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
duchessa Yonkers, NY 64, joined Aug. 2008	Quote from kinkaju: Of course the minds have been forced (hammered) ! I can take a 19d nail and hammer it flat in a few seconds they have hammered brains for thousands of years logical thought has been hammered out of the flat brains And the school authorities get rid of those pedagogues who want the kids to use their brains, to reason/ I always told my students "Don't believe anything you are told until you have been able to research the issue and to find YOUR OWN TRUTH.
8/21/2011 4:18:28 PM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
kinkaju Booneville, AR 71, joined Jun. 2011	That is very good advise for anyone . unfortunatly not real popular with the established old guard. the biggest number of people on school boards are fearful of any ideas that don't fit into the status quo and I consider that a shame
8/21/2011 4:37:00 PM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
duchessa Yonkers, NY 64, joined Aug. 2008	Quote from kinkaju: That is very good advise for anyone . unfortunatly not real popular with the established old guard. the biggest number of people on school boards are fearful of any ideas that don't fit into the status quo and I consider that a shame Well, I had the pleasure -and the joyful tears- of watching my AP students debating kids (also AP) from other schools... What a feast my kids created..!
8/21/2011 4:55:55 PM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
kinkaju Booneville, AR 71, joined Jun. 2011	Part of the problem with schools is that they don't challenge the mind of children. they are caught up with remembering facts and not allowed to question why. there is a don't rock the boat mentality among a lot (not all) teachers & principals. I remember getting a cold stare from my gen. sci teacher for asking a question.And being told I was being silly.I later was proved right in my assumption
8/21/2011 5:11:24 PM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
duchessa Yonkers, NY 64, joined Aug. 2008	Quote from kinkaju: Part of the problem with schools is that they don't challenge the mind of children. they are caught up with remembering facts and not allowed to question why. there is a don't rock the boat mentality among a lot (not all) teachers & principals. I remember getting a cold stare from my gen. sci teacher for asking a question.And being told I was being silly.I later was proved right in my assumption The problem with the schools are: 1. Purposely NOT imposing discipline. 2. The schools' authorities will say in front of the TV cameras "We will rise the bar, we will demand 110% from the kids...and from the teachers." and when the pedagogues attempt to "rise the bar" ...they get removed (any excuse). 3. The students have to attend classes for learning to take place. 4. All the Attendance Initiatives pushed by the cities are nothing but making sure the "kids are in the school when the official attendance is taken"...said attendance initiatives don't look at the other classes....Many students go to school 2nd. Pd. (official attendance) and then they leave the school. 5. The crime in the schools is rampant...bullying being one of the worst tools leading to crime. 6. Teachers being attacked, insulted, maimed, hurt, punched, stabbed, stomped over (I was) is every day food. 7. To hear "Suck my d...k" is one of many insults teachers receive every day.
8/21/2011 5:41:40 PM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
kinkaju Booneville, AR 71, joined Jun. 2011	Quote from duchessa: The problem with the schools are: 1. Purposely NOT imposing discipline. 2. The schools' authorities will say in front of the TV cameras "We will rise the bar, we will demand 110% from the kids...and from the teachers." and when the pedagogues attempt to "rise the bar" ...they get removed (any excuse). 3. The students have to attend classes for learning to take place. 4. All the Attendance Initiatives pushed by the cities are nothing but making sure the "kids are in the school when the official attendance is taken"...said attendance initiatives don't look at the other classes....Many students go to school 2nd. Pd. (official attendance) and then they leave the school. 5. The crime in the schools is rampant...bullying being one of the worst tools leading to crime. 6. Teachers being attacked, insulted, maimed, hurt, punched, stabbed, stomped over (I was) is every day food. 7. To hear "Suck my d...k" is one of many insults teachers receive every day. Ok agree with #1 #2 my early comment about school boards & change (status quo) #3 a combination of #1 and my other post if they are presented with an opertunity to understand the reasons things are important they might be more willing to sit through a lesson I can only speak of my own exp.40+years ago. 4 see above #5 fault lies @#1 as does #6 I can fully understand your frustration and I know my own experiences are not the norm nowdays but I do know that I would have probably not have dropped out in the 10th grade if I could have asked the questions that made me more interested in the subject. and I don't think that teachers should have to be insulted or threatened but they should not be tyrants either there is a balance somewhere in the middle my exp. was at 1 extreme years ago and yours are at the other extreme. hopefuly the pendulum will stop somewhere in the middle and schools will be able to teach the way they should I do applaud your teaching openmindedness to your students its a worthy lesson
8/21/2011 7:29:50 PM	How Ironic to use a torture scene?
duchessa Yonkers, NY 64, joined Aug. 2008	kinkaju ""I do applaud your teaching openmindedness to your students its a worthy lesson"" Thank you....but I just retired (June/11)...and the main reason I retired was I was not granted the chance to tell my students to reason...although the school administration filled its mouth with "We want the kids to apply logical thinking...to ask themselves "why"...to apply higher order questioning....". Yes, they know how to talk bullshit by the second. BTW, needless to say, I made my students to reason, to question themselves, to ask me all kinds of questions....and the authorities let me know how pissed off they were.

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