| 7/15/2011 7:26:59 AM |
Christopher Hitchens Destroys Biblical Miracle Claims |
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freethinker2112
Bentonville, AR
50, joined Sep. 2008
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(this post has been flagged as inappropriate, sorry.)
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| 7/15/2011 9:57:36 AM |
Christopher Hitchens Destroys Biblical Miracle Claims |
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kinkaju
Booneville, AR
71, joined Jun. 2011
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very well said but the question is how many christians changed their minds or their faith .christians are not known for clarity in thinking. you can present facts and they continue to turn a blind eye .what is the answer to blind faith?we as nonbelivers accept facts but those with blind faith by definetion refuse to see or hear facts even when hit over the head with them . my question is how to present truth and have people think about it in a clear headed manner?
[Edited 7/15/2011 10:01:45 AM ]
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| 7/15/2011 12:10:06 PM |
Christopher Hitchens Destroys Biblical Miracle Claims |
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gjlover
Grand Junction, CO
53, joined Aug. 2010
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People believe what they believe. Does not matter if it is religion or politics or philosophy or who is the best quarterback. The problem is, only one of the 4 things I listed can be definitively pr oven, but even then, there will still be debate. Yes, I was referring to the best quarterback.
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| 7/15/2011 1:20:18 PM |
Christopher Hitchens Destroys Biblical Miracle Claims |
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duchessa
Yonkers, NY
63, joined Aug. 2008
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my question is how to present truth and have people think about it in a clear headed manner?
Do we have to present "the truth"? I feel it will not accomplish anything. To me a person really opens the brain when he/she discovers the truth without the input of a third party.
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| 7/15/2011 7:34:29 PM |
Christopher Hitchens Destroys Biblical Miracle Claims |
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kinkaju
Booneville, AR
71, joined Jun. 2011
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Do we have to present "the truth"? I feel it will not accomplish anything. To me a person really opens the brain when he/she discovers the truth without the input of a third party.
then you feel we as atheists are doomed to be an island of enlightenment in a sea of darkness? That things will never change? or do you think that someday the world will just shift axis and everyone will stop being christian and musslem or wiccans etc.?
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| 7/15/2011 11:01:44 PM |
Christopher Hitchens Destroys Biblical Miracle Claims |
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blue_eye_gal
Brick, NJ
50, joined Sep. 2009
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I have noticed that when someone starts talking to another person of opposite beliefs and tries to convince that other person that there beliefs are wrong (and the beliefs of the person trying to be convincing are right)...there is great resistance (almost at cost). The harder (or more vehement) the "sell"...the more the other person falls back on their beliefs to the point where reason and logic ore moot points and all that is left is clinging fast to what they know.
This applies to religious people trying to convince atheists that there is a god...and vice versa.
There is truth in that old saying about "you can lead a horse to water but you can not make him drink"
About the best I have ever been able to do is to inspire a few people to start asking questions about their beliefs and to do some searching for answers. Some people have changed their viewpoint on their own that way
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| 7/16/2011 6:26:51 AM |
Christopher Hitchens Destroys Biblical Miracle Claims |
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freethinker2112
Bentonville, AR
50, joined Sep. 2008
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I have noticed that when someone starts talking to another person of opposite beliefs and tries to convince that other person that there beliefs are wrong (and the beliefs of the person trying to be convincing are right)...there is great resistance (almost at cost). The harder (or more vehement) the "sell"...the more the other person falls back on their beliefs to the point where reason and logic ore moot points and all that is left is clinging fast to what they know.
This applies to religious people trying to convince atheists that there is a god...and vice versa.
There is truth in that old saying about "you can lead a horse to water but you can not make him drink"
About the best I have ever been able to do is to inspire a few people to start asking questions about their beliefs and to do some searching for answers. Some people have changed their viewpoint on their own that way
I find a great deal of them are scared to even question their beliefs.
Most religions are very cultish in that respect, It's hard to get around the faith thing because that is their answer for everything.
Evidence means nothing when you rely on faith, because faith requires none.
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| 7/16/2011 8:35:56 AM |
Christopher Hitchens Destroys Biblical Miracle Claims |
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kinkaju
Booneville, AR
71, joined Jun. 2011
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Do we have to present "the truth"? I feel it will not accomplish anything. To me a person really opens the brain when he/she discovers the truth without the input of a third party.
I am just amazed that is a complete turn around from something you said in another thread
or did I miss something(education is key)
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| 7/16/2011 8:48:32 AM |
Christopher Hitchens Destroys Biblical Miracle Claims |
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kinkaju
Booneville, AR
71, joined Jun. 2011
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I have noticed that when someone starts talking to another person of opposite beliefs and tries to convince that other person that there beliefs are wrong (and the beliefs of the person trying to be convincing are right)...there is great resistance (almost at cost). The harder (or more vehement) the "sell"...the more the other person falls back on their beliefs to the point where reason and logic ore moot points and all that is left is clinging fast to what they know.
This applies to religious people trying to convince atheists that there is a god...and vice versa.
There is truth in that old saying about "you can lead a horse to water but you can not make him drink"
About the best I have ever been able to do is to inspire a few people to start asking questions about their beliefs and to do some searching for answers. Some people have changed their viewpoint on their own that way
If the horse is thirsty he will drink if he can find water.
as long as you don't scare it away it will drink from your cupped hands.
[Edited 7/16/2011 8:49:54 AM ]
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| 7/16/2011 9:03:45 AM |
Christopher Hitchens Destroys Biblical Miracle Claims |
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duchessa
Yonkers, NY
63, joined Aug. 2008
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then you feel we as atheists are doomed to be an island of enlightenment in a sea of darkness? That things will never change? or do you think that someday the world will just shift axis and everyone will stop being christian and musslem or wiccans etc.?
I think to rush, spoon-feed will lead to changes of mind that are not for real. Let people do their own changes.
See? Whenever people ask me why I am an Atheist I tell them my reasons...nothing more; if they decide to do some re-thinking on account of what I said fine...if they don't fine as well.
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| 7/16/2011 9:08:36 AM |
Christopher Hitchens Destroys Biblical Miracle Claims |
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duchessa
Yonkers, NY
63, joined Aug. 2008
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About the best I have ever been able to do is to inspire a few people to start asking questions about their beliefs and to do some searching for answers. Some people have changed their viewpoint on their own that way
One of my best students WAS a believer...but his curious mind never rested. We had great discussions about many subjects...including religion....Recently, he approached me to tell me "Ms. I discovered God doesn't exist....and I reached to this conclusion all on my own."
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| 7/16/2011 9:10:38 AM |
Christopher Hitchens Destroys Biblical Miracle Claims |
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duchessa
Yonkers, NY
63, joined Aug. 2008
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If the horse is thirsty he will drink if he can find water.
as long as you don't scare it away it will drink from your cupped hands.
The key word here is "thirsty"....yes, for knowledge, water, the truth...thirsty.
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| 7/16/2011 9:20:43 AM |
Christopher Hitchens Destroys Biblical Miracle Claims |
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kinkaju
Booneville, AR
71, joined Jun. 2011
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One of my best students WAS a believer...but his curious mind never rested. We had great discussions about many subjects...including religion....Recently, he approached me to tell me "Ms. I discovered God doesn't exist....and I reached to this conclusion all on my own."
then what was your part in those discussions?wern't you acting as the sounding board for this students doubts? Did you not provide insights for them to investagate?were you not acting as the 2nd party in an exchange of ideas?
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| 7/16/2011 9:37:09 AM |
Christopher Hitchens Destroys Biblical Miracle Claims |
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kinkaju
Booneville, AR
71, joined Jun. 2011
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What is the role of the atheist in the grand scheme of things ?
Do we just want to sit back and piss & moan because we have to use money that says "in god we trust"?
Or do we get pissed because if you go to court to be a witness we are told to swear on a bible "to tell the truth ,the whole truth,and nothing but the truth so help me god"
what is the purpose of this group ? to present facts to convince ourselves we are right?
maybe...just maybe if someone comes into this group and asks a question that might mean they are looking for answers,isn't that an opertunity to give them some knowledge to enlighten them about how we view things and give them a chance to see the truth?
[Edited 7/16/2011 9:42:42 AM ]
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| 7/16/2011 11:38:52 AM |
Christopher Hitchens Destroys Biblical Miracle Claims |
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arkiebama
Union Grove, AL
68, joined Jun. 2011
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you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink!!!!!!
ray comfort wrote a book titled,,,, you can lead a atheist to evidence but you can't make him think.
lmao.. kinda ironic isn't it...a preacher using the words "evidence" and "think" in the same sentence.
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| 7/16/2011 12:06:10 PM |
Christopher Hitchens Destroys Biblical Miracle Claims |
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kinkaju
Booneville, AR
71, joined Jun. 2011
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you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink!!!!!!
ray comfort wrote a book titled,,,, you can lead a atheist to evidence but you can't make him think.
lmao.. kinda ironic isn't it...a preacher using the words "evidence" and "think" in the same sentence.
very ironic it gives me a mental picture of thousands of christians waist deep in a baptismal pond dieing from dehydration saying I wish the preacher would hurry up i'm thirsty 
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