Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?

YAMMER'S THOUGHTS ON PLATO'S "CAVE"

3/28/2013 11:15:33 PM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
iyamwutiyam Middelfart Denmark 47, joined Dec. 2011	(this post has been flagged as inappropriate, sorry.) Meet singles at DateHookup.dating, we're 100% free! Join now!
3/29/2013 12:44:50 AM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
romello369 Las Vegas, NV 32, joined Dec. 2012	Care to explain his blindness afterward?
3/29/2013 5:36:47 AM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
iyamwutiyam Middelfart Denmark 47, joined Dec. 2011	Quote from romello369: Care to explain his blindness afterward? Epilepsy does that but then there is also stroke, shingles, pressure in brain fluid but... There is also Conversion Disorder(hysterical blindness) from extreme emotional distress which is interesting because this was called Paul's conversion.
3/29/2013 10:01:48 AM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
xashax Union, NH 44, joined May. 2009	I dont think Paul was mentally ill necessarily but he was under great duress. You have to remember he was chained up in a cell in Rome while writing all of those letters to the various churches. He had to realize at some point that things were not going to go well for him under those circumstances. Im surprised he lasted as long as he did. As to the sudden blindness, we dont know if that was external to him. There have been documented instances of hysterical blindness on record. [Edited 3/29/2013 10:03:17 AM ]
3/29/2013 10:28:46 AM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
iyamwutiyam Middelfart Denmark 47, joined Dec. 2011	(this post has been flagged as inappropriate, sorry.) [Edited 3/29/2013 10:30:12 AM ]
3/29/2013 10:40:38 AM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
mnnous Duluth, MN 30, joined Nov. 2012	Another empty troll thread... awesome.
3/29/2013 12:31:57 PM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
iyamwutiyam Middelfart Denmark 47, joined Dec. 2011	Well, we know how little you know beyond the superficial. Medical and psychiatric symptoms are meaningless in the unphilosophy of religion.
3/29/2013 1:05:36 PM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
romello369 Las Vegas, NV 32, joined Dec. 2012	Quote from xashax: I dont think Paul was mentally ill necessarily but he was under great duress. You have to remember he was chained up in a cell in Rome while writing all of those letters to the various churches. He had to realize at some point that things were not going to go well for him under those circumstances. Im surprised he lasted as long as he did. As to the sudden blindness, we dont know if that was external to him. There have been documented instances of hysterical blindness on record. All of that happened after his encounter though, right? [Edited 3/29/2013 1:05:51 PM ]
3/29/2013 1:09:11 PM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
xashax Union, NH 44, joined May. 2009	Im not sure what difference that makes. I said, "as to".
3/29/2013 4:22:14 PM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
romello369 Las Vegas, NV 32, joined Dec. 2012	Ohhhh. And here I thought you were trying to say that his encounter could have been a hallucination or something due to the mental trauma of him being chained up, etc. and things that happened to him after the fact... Carry on. [Edited 3/29/2013 4:23:46 PM ]
3/29/2013 4:29:14 PM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
xashax Union, NH 44, joined May. 2009	No you would need to re-read it. I said that there was no way to know if the experience he described was external to himself or caused by some form of trauma. Hysterical blindness has not gone undocumented. If you are asking me if I believe it actually happened as he described it. Probably not. [Edited 3/29/2013 4:30:50 PM ]
3/29/2013 5:01:42 PM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
iyamwutiyam Middelfart Denmark 47, joined Dec. 2011	Maybe there was a ventriloquist with a mirror. [Edited 3/29/2013 5:02:22 PM ]
3/30/2013 12:49:05 AM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
begbear1952 Easley, SC 64, joined Jan. 2010	Quote from iyamwutiyam: Let's examine the symptoms: 1) Paul saw a bright light 2) He laid motionless 3) He had an auditory hallucination. 4) He was not able to eat or drink for days 5) In 2 Corinthians 12:7-10 Paul reveals he has physical ailments. The most common symptom before a Temporal Lobe Epileptic seizure is seeing a bright light. This strongly indicates Paul had Temporal Lobe Epilepsy. Paul had an auditory hallucination because at the time Jesus was dead. This is one example found in scripture where mental illness provides a foundation in religion. Still making a jackass out of yourself, I see. Should I offer you the cure of knowledge? Those symptoms do not constitute a "mental illness" unless they causes serious problems in social functioning. Paul seems to have gone on and lived his life in such a way as to become a powerful leader. You have a hard row to hoe to support your boring contention that the supposed "symptoms" you described constitute a "mental disorder" because you have to explain how a powerful leader is socially impaired. Unfortunately, you can't do that -- especially not from a distance of a couple of thousand years away. As usual, your profound ignorance about psychology, psychiatry, mental health, and mental illness are leading to nothing but severely impaired thinking on your part. Remember the song by the Bee Gees, "How Can You Mend A Broken Heart?" You need a song written for you titled, "How Can You Mend A Broken Record?" I let you out for a few minutes, and it looks like I'm going to have to put you right back in your cage. [Edited 3/30/2013 12:52:47 AM ]
3/30/2013 4:45:08 AM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
iyamwutiyam Middelfart Denmark 47, joined Dec. 2011	(this post has been flagged as inappropriate, sorry.) [Edited 3/30/2013 4:48:39 AM ]
3/30/2013 4:54:05 AM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
vagirl62 Hillsville, VA 54, joined Jan. 2013	I seen this light. Did not fall to the ground, become blind or have seizure. I had to go on to work. My uncle pass away that morning. I seen the light of God early before he died of a massive heart attack. He was a preacher.
3/30/2013 5:05:18 AM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
iyamwutiyam Middelfart Denmark 47, joined Dec. 2011	Quote from vagirl62: I seen this light. Did not fall to the ground, become blind or have seizure. I had to go on to work. My uncle pass away that morning. I seen the light of God early before he died of a massive heart attack. He was a preacher. That's good example of how mental trauma and psychological disorder abnormally affect on the brain. It demonstrate how religious delusions from mild to grandiose are reinforced and then passed on to others.
3/30/2013 5:15:43 AM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
vagirl62 Hillsville, VA 54, joined Jan. 2013	How come it was before my uncle died that morning? I did not know he would die that day. It happened just this one time.
3/30/2013 7:59:31 AM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
iyamwutiyam Middelfart Denmark 47, joined Dec. 2011	Given schizophrenia runs in your immediate family you carry the gene. Its very likely you have symptoms that likely are schizotypal disorder given your strong magical thinking. But Christians regularly engage in magical thinking, distorted reality, circular and twisted logic nevertheless so if they don't have this disorder, they behave as if they do which does reveal that religious behavior and mental illness have overlapping behaviors. The DSM makes this clear. But lets stick to the topic. Was Paul of Tarsus mentally ill? According to his symptoms he was. He suffered grandiose auditory hallucinations, seizures and other maladies. [Edited 3/30/2013 8:01:39 AM ]
3/30/2013 10:40:02 AM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
vagirl62 Hillsville, VA 54, joined Jan. 2013	No I don't think he was mentally ill. He just seen the light like me.
3/30/2013 11:34:17 AM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
iyamwutiyam Middelfart Denmark 47, joined Dec. 2011	Quote from vagirl62: No I don't think he was mentally ill. He just seen the light like me. So because you saw a light too he wasn't mentally ill. OK. So what was that light from?
3/30/2013 1:14:22 PM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
vagirl62 Hillsville, VA 54, joined Jan. 2013	From God. My thoughts were wow God does exist.
3/30/2013 11:11:28 PM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
begbear1952 Easley, SC 64, joined Jan. 2010	Quote from iyamwutiyam: But lets stick to the topic. Was Paul of Tarsus mentally ill? Ah but you changed the topic. You changed it to trying to diagnose other people without education, without a license, and most important of all - with no clinical experience. That's why you're a zero, son - and why each of your posts is also a zero. That's good example of how mental trauma and psychological disorder abnormally affect on the brain. It demonstrate how religious delusions from mild to grandiose are reinforced and then passed on to others. That's nothing but an attempt to impose shame on others. The shame is on YOU. Given schizophrenia runs in your immediate family you carry the gene. Its very likely you have symptoms that likely are schizotypal disorder given your strong magical thinking. But Christians regularly engage in magical thinking, distorted reality, circular and twisted logic nevertheless so if they don't have this disorder, they behave as if they do which does reveal that religious behavior and mental illness have overlapping behaviors. The DSM makes this clear. Nope. Sorry. THIS is what the DSM makes clear: It is important that DSM-IV not be applied mechanically by untrained individuals. You ongoing belief that you can do accurate psychiatric diagnoses without the requisite education or clinical experience, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, is unarguably a delusion of yours at this point. [Edited 3/30/2013 11:13:21 PM ]
3/31/2013 2:52:07 AM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
share_n_love Fort Wayne, IN 60, joined Dec. 2012	You are mesmerized by mental illness aren't you yammy...wonder why? Hmmmmm
3/31/2013 7:42:57 AM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
sail_dancer Saint Petersburg, FL 68, joined Apr. 2010	Quote from share_n_love: You are mesmerized by mental illness aren't you yammy...wonder why? Hmmmmm Seems that all you do is personally attack Iyam ..... and never provide any information to attack his claims ..... why is that. Iyam attacks religious dogmas that he feels are harmful to mankind ..... he provides documents supporting his claims ..... what do you do? I don't necessarily agree with everything he presents ..... but you present nothing but delusional thinking at best. Peace
3/31/2013 9:46:18 AM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
iyamwutiyam Middelfart Denmark 47, joined Dec. 2011	Exposing religious behavior as a mirroring of mental illness is going to upset the fanatical religious and leaves them little else to do but act out like buffoons. The DSM shows us that religious behavior will often mimic psychosis. The idea is that its in their culture. Think of the word culture as a key identifier as with the Bible Belt culture were people routinely believe in talking donkeys, Eve coming from a rib and "religious experience" of auditory hallucinations of Jesus talking to them. This culture has a higher than normal rate of behavior that is indistinguishable from mental illness therefore normalized in that culture. The religious person will behave mentally ill because their religiosity is expressed that way. It looks just like psychotic or delusional behavior. So even if a religious person isn't clinically psychotic they will act like they are. This makes it much more difficult to treat a psychotic religious patient as opposed to other individuals. Studies indicate that schizophrenics with religious delusions do much worse. That's because religious behavior reinforces the symptoms of this debilitating mental illness. It begs the question. How does religious culture absorb the behaviors of the mentally ill in their religious expression? Because mental illness itself is a major inspiration given schizotypals in their society. That is what Sapolsky tells us. That is why Simeon Stylites was made into a saint. That is why Paul's hallucination is so important to religious dogma. Christianity in particular venerates such mental illness. Buggerbear says The Christian says, "I am a worm, so what is important? Christ is important. Christ transcended all the limitations of life in human form, and through Christ, I can transcend them too." So basically self loathing and low self esteem is a path to Christ. Its how weak minded individuals are exploited. Shame on the buggerbear.
3/31/2013 6:12:44 PM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
begbear1952 Easley, SC 64, joined Jan. 2010	Quote from sail_dancer: Seems that all you do is personally attack Iyam ..... and never provide any information to attack his claims ..... why is that. And out comes the Atheist Victim Card.
3/31/2013 6:21:50 PM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
tercium Hemet, CA 48, joined Nov. 2010	Saint Paul had a vision of Jesus on the road to Damascus the light temporarily blinded him. I don't think he was lying since he could have had a cushy existence instead of the path he chose instead
3/31/2013 6:22:56 PM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
begbear1952 Easley, SC 64, joined Jan. 2010	Quote from iyamwutiyam: So basically self loathing and low self esteem is a path to Christ. It's one path. Another path is the Yammer Path Of Loudmouth Self-glorification. It works too, but it takes a lot longer than the path of humility. Since you have proven to be unable to deflate your overblown ego on your own, you are going to be forced to live out humiliation in your life just to find a sane level of humility. Your time is coming. Could be on the day you get old & sick & have to live in a big ugly building that smells like urine. Could be tomorrow. This guy is your own human ego, and he IS coming to get you.
3/31/2013 7:26:35 PM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
iyamwutiyam Middelfart Denmark 47, joined Dec. 2011	Quote from begbear1952: It's one path. Another path is the Yammer Path Of Loudmouth Self-glorification. It works too, but it takes a lot longer than the path of humility. Since you have proven to be unable to deflate your overblown ego on your own, you are going to be forced to live out humiliation in your life just to find a sane level of humility. Your time is coming. Could be on the day you get old & sick & have to live in a big ugly building that smells like urine. Could be tomorrow. This guy is your own human ego, and he IS coming to get you. So are you saying I'm going wind up like you? Old, sick and smelling like piss? But that's just how Simeon Stylites lived and he was made into a saint. It is possible that Simeon suffered from a prolonged psychotic illness, for example a schizophrenia-like psychosis. The above description s of his behaviour may suggest intermittent catatonic states with episodes of intense spiritual preoccupation with transcendent matters. Even if Simeon did not have a schizophrenic illness in the way we know today, it might be that Simeon had a psychotic episode, or episodes, which so transformed his view of the world as to change his relationship with it thereafter. An alternative diagnosis is schizotypal personality disorder. This latter diagnosis must be considered with caution as, according to DSM IV, the presentation must be evaluated only in the context of the individual 's particular cultural surroundings. Simeon's repetitive symbolic actions and prophetic exhortations as well as extreme bodily mortifications, can be viewed simultaneously as illness or saintliness. Jefferson Journal of Psychiatry Simeon was mentally ill but was Paul also mentally ill?
4/1/2013 1:33:52 AM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
begbear1952 Easley, SC 64, joined Jan. 2010	Quote from iyamwutiyam: Simeon was mentally ill but was Paul also mentally ill? You still think you are qualified to make that determination? You're delusional. Sad.
4/1/2013 1:53:36 AM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
begbear1952 Easley, SC 64, joined Jan. 2010	Quote from share_n_love: You are mesmerized by mental illness aren't you yammy...wonder why? Hmmmmm He thinks he's a doctor.
4/1/2013 3:47:19 AM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
sail_dancer Saint Petersburg, FL 68, joined Apr. 2010	Quote from begbear1952: You still think you are qualified to make that determination? You're delusional. Sad. He didn't make that determination ..... he quoted from the Jefferson Journal of Psychiatry. Are you also questioning information published by the Jefferson Journal of Psychiatry? Peace
4/1/2013 5:12:24 AM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
iyamwutiyam Middelfart Denmark 47, joined Dec. 2011	(this post has been flagged as inappropriate, sorry.) [Edited 4/1/2013 5:13:32 AM ]
4/1/2013 5:36:51 AM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
iyamwutiyam Middelfart Denmark 47, joined Dec. 2011	(this post has been flagged as inappropriate, sorry.) [Edited 4/1/2013 5:37:39 AM ]
4/1/2013 4:14:03 PM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
begbear1952 Easley, SC 64, joined Jan. 2010	Quote from sail_dancer: He didn't make that determination ..... he quoted from the Jefferson Journal of Psychiatry. You're seriously asserting that yammer never labels other posters as being mentally ill? Are you also questioning information published by the Jefferson Journal of Psychiatry? If a poster doesn't use quotes or propery cite it, he's passing it off as his own work. But the answer to your question is that I question all information published in all journals, Professor Fish. That is what people educated in a field do, and that's why it's called PEER REVIEW. You would too, if you had half the education you proffer. [Edited 4/1/2013 4:17:35 PM ]
4/1/2013 5:31:06 PM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
sail_dancer Saint Petersburg, FL 68, joined Apr. 2010	(this post has been flagged as inappropriate, sorry.)
4/1/2013 9:19:43 PM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
iyamwutiyam Middelfart Denmark 47, joined Dec. 2011	Psychiatry has always known this link and more studies are coming out. We know far more about the brain than ever before. Religion and other superstitions are molded and shaped by faulty brain activity much more than a healthy mind. Delusions have more meaning than scientific evidence and actual facts. Distortions are more valued than clarity. Religion's most important ingredients are pathological . [Edited 4/1/2013 9:22:06 PM ]
4/1/2013 11:13:38 PM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
begbear1952 Easley, SC 64, joined Jan. 2010	Do you guys have any inkling of how inferior you look when you go on these rants?
4/1/2013 11:51:19 PM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
d_voted Winnipeg, MB 63, joined Sep. 2008	Quote from iyamwutiyam: Well, we know how little you know beyond the superficial. Medical and psychiatric symptoms are meaningless in the unphilosophy of religion. AH - You may have inadvertently and unintentionally stumbled upon something of great significance my friend (if I may call you that). The medical and psychiatric communities depend upon what philosophy of science does and that is the ability to predict through examination of cause and effect. Their chief source of information is logic and demands verifiability by repeating similar initial causes to produce consistent results. The laws that the scientists are attempting to discover or describe require repeatable tests with similar outcomes. The process of inquiry in science or in philosophy requires the examination of the premises and a connectedness to the outcome or conclusion. The reason that religion exists is not simply to explain an event or a situation that cannot be understood by the same methods but also to provide the contextual framework from whence these events took place and a determination of the outcomes. The validity of the 'conversion experience' takes place in one's realigning of one's values or initial premises and the outcomes. There is some internal disputes within the religious circles regarding 'faith and works' which causes all kinds of problems both within and for those outside of the community of believers. The evidence that one has regarding the issues of faith are not so much gleened from reason but express themselves in the manner in which reason realigns itself to the whole of creation as well as others therein. The 'fruits of faith' therefore are the evidence of the source of power from which these people obtain their courage to defy what is normally conventional wisdom. The tragedy is when the people who claim to be members of a faith community fall into the same traps as the 'heathens' do in the pursuits of fame, wealth, power, prestige and domination of others. These qualities are certainly not exclusive to church members but transcend all cultures and belief systems including the philosophers themselves. The idea that all can be explained in the realm of the rational is narrowing one's options of understanding. There are other ways of knowing. Some people speak of an Emotional IQ which claims to have some standards and requires some forms of measurement to suggest that one is more in touch with Emotional reality. But even these newfound sciences or branches of scientific inquiry makes suppositions and then attempts to validate or verify its own suppositions. For me, as a religious fanatic (defined as someone who loves God more than you do), I make no attempt to convince you or to bring you into the fold. There are different spiritual gifts and I am not one who was gifted with evangelization so for me your 'salvation' is irrelevant and neither interests me nor do I flatter myself with the idea that you may gain anything of noteworthiness from me. I seldom respond to writings in this forum but your comment seemed to me to be a particualarly insightful observation - even if you didn't know it yourself. Be of good cheer - whether friend or foe - I don't concern myself much with most of the common explanations. The entire book of Acts will provide the context within which Paul's conversion on his way to Damascus is explained from about book 6 where he was present at the stoning of Stephen (and not with pot) up to and including the heroic and courageous visit by Annanias in either book 9 or 10 when Paul is on his third day of fasting and prayer. Imagine the balls of that guy going up to what he already knew was someone who could imprison him and have him thrown into the arena for the entertainment of the Romans. He went right up to him and laid hands on him so that Paul could recieve his sight. That guy had an argument with the Holy Spirit prior to going - BUT HE WENT - What courage or foolishness. You will have to guess which it was. D
4/2/2013 6:30:04 AM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
iyamwutiyam Middelfart Denmark 47, joined Dec. 2011	Quote from d_voted: The reason that religion exists is not simply to explain an event or a situation that cannot be understood by the same methods but also to provide the contextual framework from whence these events took place and a determination of the outcomes. The validity of the 'conversion experience' takes place in one's realigning of one's values or initial premises and the outcomes. Religion does attempt to explain but fails because its answers aren't based on reality. Its answers come from superstitious ignorant people who say they are telling the truth. The conversion experience is just a nice way of saying mental breakdown and this is what happened to Paul for whatever reason is immaterial. His mental breakdown led to his hallucination but with symptoms of temporal lobe epilepsy. The re-alignment is from a disorder which really means he's out of alignment. Paul wasn't a mentally healthy man. There is some internal disputes within the religious circles regarding 'faith and works' which causes all kinds of problems both within and for those outside of the community of believers. The evidence that one has regarding the issues of faith are not so much gleened from reason but express themselves in the manner in which reason realigns itself to the whole of creation as well as others therein. The 'fruits of faith' therefore are the evidence of the source of power from which these people obtain their courage to defy what is normally conventional wisdom. Right, and the fruits of faith are massive destruction on a grand scale. The church is responsible for the crusades, inquisition, the holocausts (Jewish and others), the continued suppression of science and a great deal of child abuse as if religious indoctrination wasn't enough. Even today the catholic church is anti-science despite is facade acceptance of evolution, it still pretends wine turns into blood when magical words are spoken over it. The other Christians of the bible belt are even more overtly anti-science pro-ignorance with their anti-stem cell research, anti-contraception and prophylactic protection. They and the Catholics have that in common which helps explain why Africa is dying by religious behavior based on a toxic faith. Is it any wonder religions such as this incorporate the pathologies of the mind into their dogma? That guy had an argument with the Holy Spirit prior to going - BUT HE WENT - What courage or foolishness. You will have to guess which it was. Yeah, he had a very important argument with a figment of his imagination that was an auditory hallucination. The very idea of holy spirit is from such experiences of voices in the head and used like a Ouiji board without the board.
4/2/2013 8:50:28 PM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
begbear1952 Easley, SC 64, joined Jan. 2010	You and Sail desperately need to read "When God Becomes A Drug" to learn about the power to transform available via Christianity. It could help your one-sided rants to sound more balanced.
4/2/2013 8:52:58 PM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
begbear1952 Easley, SC 64, joined Jan. 2010	Quote from sail_dancer: No ..... you do not evaluate published information for its accuracy and content ..... you apply a dogmatic test that clouds your evaluation ..... rejects reality ..... and embraces mysticism. Actually it's you who does that. All you're doing in perpetuating the same stereotype, just like every other bigot. Why is it that you attack all studies that try to determine if there is a relationship between religion and mental illness? You totally reject the possibility of a link between the two without providing anything to support your position. Have you ever read anything about the benefits of altered states of consciousness? Peace Peace on you. [Edited 4/2/2013 8:54:16 PM ]
4/3/2013 7:07:33 AM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
iyamwutiyam Middelfart Denmark 47, joined Dec. 2011	Have you ever read anything about the benefits of altered states of consciousness? Tell us about yours.
4/3/2013 8:02:34 PM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
begbear1952 Easley, SC 64, joined Jan. 2010	You are obviously ignorant about them. All you know about them is silly negative stereotypes. [Edited 4/3/2013 8:02:48 PM ]
4/3/2013 8:29:48 PM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
tertium Hemet, CA 48, joined Apr. 2013	I don't think Saint Paul was mentally ill Religion and politics do attract some eccentrics though
4/4/2013 10:00:17 PM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
begbear1952 Easley, SC 64, joined Jan. 2010	Quote from iyamwutiyam: Religion does attempt to explain but fails because its answers aren't based on reality. Of course they are based on reality. They are based on internal reality. You think that just because you cannot find your inner reality, and don't even know how or where to look for it, that it cannot possibly exist. You are like the men in Plato's story, hypnotized by the shadows on the cave wall made by the fire. You continue to gaze all over the wall - up, down, side to side -- "Show me the fire!" you exclaim. "Show me this 'outside world' you keep talking about, the one that proves you are mentally ill!" Gently we try to coax you to turn your head in a different direction, but you refuse! "Meanies!" you cry out. "Cruel! You are hurting my neck!" We try to explain to you that we just want you to look in a different direction. But you are so emotionally entrenched in your Wall, and the shadows dancing on your wall, that you absolutly cannot comprehend that there is anything you are missing. Poor yammer. Yeah, he had a very important argument with a figment of his imagination that was an auditory hallucination. The very idea of holy spirit is from such experiences of voices in the head and used like a Ouiji board without the board. You still haven't read this, have you yammer? "It is important that DSM-IV not be applied mechanically by untrained individuals. The specific diagnostic criteria in DSM-IV are meant to serve as guidelines to be informed by clinical judgment and are not meant to be used in a cookbook fashion." American Psychiatric Association. Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. Fourth Edition. Washington, DC., 1994. P. xxiii. [Edited 4/4/2013 10:01:36 PM ]
4/5/2013 5:32:37 AM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
sail_dancer Saint Petersburg, FL 68, joined Apr. 2010	Quote from begbear1952: Actually it's you who does that. All you're doing in perpetuating the same stereotype, just like every other bigot. You are obviously confused ..... it is you who have been brainwashed by christian dogma .... are extremely bigoted ..... and allow your sick beliefs to influence your evaluation of anything that may tarnish your selected religious cult's credibility. I have no dogma to protect and my call for peace is an honest one ..... bigotry as far as I'm concerned is a detriment to true peace. Peace
4/5/2013 9:58:59 AM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
iyamwutiyam Middelfart Denmark 47, joined Dec. 2011	Of course they are based on reality. They are based on internal reality. Religion delusions are internal and false realities that don't map to the real world. However your internal reality just might be matter of having a different point of view by how you look within. In Jesus name of course.
4/5/2013 10:55:30 AM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
iyamwutiyam Middelfart Denmark 47, joined Dec. 2011	Quote from tertium: I don't think Saint Paul was mentally ill Religion and politics do attract some eccentrics though Saying mental illness doesn't indicate what disorder it is but given the bright light before his seizure does point to problems in the temporal lobes which is very much associated with religiosity. People with temporal lobe epilepsy report a bright light before the seizure. And this is not a grand mal. They just go into a stare or close their eyes. They would look like they're praying.
4/5/2013 1:34:56 PM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
begbear1952 Easley, SC 64, joined Jan. 2010
4/5/2013 1:42:50 PM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
begbear1952 Easley, SC 64, joined Jan. 2010	Quote from sail_dancer: You are obviously confused ..... it is you who have been brainwashed by christian dogma .... are extremely bigoted ..... and allow your sick beliefs to influence your evaluation of anything that may tarnish your selected religious cult's credibility. I have no dogma to protect and my call for peace is an honest one ..... bigotry as far as I'm concerned is a detriment to true peace. Peace Verbal abuse further proves you have nothing worth saying. [Edited 4/5/2013 1:43:06 PM ]
4/5/2013 3:15:46 PM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 63, joined Feb. 2008	Hallucinations happen but miracles, such as the light St. Paul saw, happen too. Hallucinations are more common than miracles, true, but it does not follow from that that miracles don't occur. A person who is a little "off" mentally sees what he says is a miracle. Generally, we don't believe him, and with good reason. A perfectly sane person like Saul of Tarsus claims to see one, and becomes a good, holy, saintly person as a result, then we have reason to believe that his story is true.
4/5/2013 3:36:03 PM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
iyamwutiyam Middelfart Denmark 47, joined Dec. 2011	Quote from ludlowlowell: Hallucinations happen but miracles, such as the light St. Paul saw, happen too. Hallucinations are more common than miracles, true, but it does not follow from that that miracles don't occur. A person who is a little "off" mentally sees what he says is a miracle. Generally, we don't believe him, and with good reason. A perfectly sane person like Saul of Tarsus claims to see one, and becomes a good, holy, saintly person as a result, then we have reason to believe that his story is true. That's exactly what someone who is mentally way off would say. but don't worry, lots of delusional superstitious people believe you. [Edited 4/5/2013 3:36:48 PM ]
4/5/2013 4:06:24 PM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
begbear1952 Easley, SC 64, joined Jan. 2010	Hey yammer - how would you lable a person who displays a constant fixation for trying to force other people to change their way of thinking, and can talk of nothing else? 1. Revolutionary 2. Preacher 3. Axis I - Delusional Disorder Obsessive Compulsive Disorder 4. Axis II - Dependent Personality Disorder 5. Run of the mill bigoted nutcase [Edited 4/5/2013 4:07:27 PM ]
4/5/2013 4:41:02 PM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
iyamwutiyam Middelfart Denmark 47, joined Dec. 2011	6. All of the above. Your daddy.
4/5/2013 5:35:07 PM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
sail_dancer Saint Petersburg, FL 68, joined Apr. 2010	Quote from begbear1952: how would you lable a person who displays a constant fixation for trying to force other people to change their way of thinking, and can talk of nothing else? Obnoxious christian? Peace
4/5/2013 7:15:05 PM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
siamese_charlie Dallas, TX 56, joined Mar. 2013	Paul may well have been a spy for the Sanhedrin (sp?). Paul, the master of religious dogma, Pharisee of Pharisees, careful studier of the "Jesus talk" at the time, likely knew that if he "claimed conversion", and with his writing abilities, that he could get a foothold into Christianity at the infancy, and establish himself as an Apostle. Going to the Gentiles was one way of isolating himself from Jewish Christians. Paul mixes the right amount of Grace with the continued adhereance to LAW, to keep people in bondage to the idea that they must somehow earn heaven by abstaining from sin too. An Impossibility. We are hopeless addicted to sin in this life. We are slaves to sin, but Paul claims we are not. Paul is very clever at this false religion Christianity. "THE WAY" is not Chrisitanity. "THE WAY" is what Jesus taught. Paul was not 1 of the 12 who lived with Jesus. And when Judas was gone, the replacement, chosen by Holy Spirit lottery, was not Paul either. [Edited 4/5/2013 7:17:37 PM ]
4/5/2013 7:23:39 PM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
siamese_charlie Dallas, TX 56, joined Mar. 2013	Quote from ludlowlowell: Hallucinations happen but miracles, such as the light St. Paul saw, happen too. Hallucinations are more common than miracles, true, but it does not follow from that that miracles don't occur. A person who is a little "off" mentally sees what he says is a miracle. Generally, we don't believe him, and with good reason. A perfectly sane person like Saul of Tarsus claims to see one, and becomes a good, holy, saintly person as a result, then we have reason to believe that his story is true. So how is the Christian murderer Paul any different the Osama bin Laden? If Osama bin Laden had claimed he saw a light and heard a voice (JESUS), would you then allow him to teach your kids and grandkids? Of course not. That is what the Christian Church has allowed too happen though. Perhaps Paul should have been allowed to enter the Church, not as an Apostle, but perhaps a lowly servant position such as janitor.
4/5/2013 8:10:38 PM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
iyamwutiyam Middelfart Denmark 47, joined Dec. 2011	Quote from siamese_charlie: So how is the Christian murderer Paul any different the Osama bin Laden? If Osama bin Laden had claimed he saw a light and heard a voice (JESUS), would you then allow him to teach your kids and grandkids? Of course not. That is what the Christian Church has allowed too happen though. Perhaps Paul should have been allowed to enter the Church, not as an Apostle, but perhaps a lowly servant position such as janitor. Lots of Christians worship Paul more than Jesus which is ironic because Paul knew little about Jesus. That's another topic. Its possible for a murderer to have remorse but they should always pay for their crimes. It would be insane to trust a murderer to watch over your kids despite whatever remorse they may have yet there is a possibility they could turn around and be a good citizen. What's the statistics on that? Its also possible Paul faked his grandiose hallucination as a way to avoid the penalties. Whether he actually had a psychotic episode or faked it tells us psychotic events are a highly valued state of mind religion accepts. So was Paul mentally ill? It he was a pathological liar or had temporal lobe epilepsy the answer is yes to both. As for murders and attempted murderers we can talk about Abraham who attempted to murder his son from a voice in his head telling him to do so yet religions such as Christianity highly value this sort of mental illness. [Edited 4/5/2013 8:13:27 PM ]
4/5/2013 11:26:02 PM	Was Paul of Tarsus Mentally Ill?
begbear1952 Easley, SC 64, joined Jan. 2010	You keep talking about my daddy, yammer. You seem obsessed with him. Who was your daddy? Do you know? Was he just an anonymous donor?

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