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9/26/2013 12:52:35 PM C.S. Lewis – was he a Christian?  
mindya
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (23,617)
Vancouver, BC
64, joined Jan. 2009



C.S. Lewis – was he a Christian?

With all the Lewis idolatry threads happening on here and promotion of his “pithy” “Christian sayings I thought it would be a good idea to look at what he really believed.

Lewis stated that the OT contained many myths – these included stories such as the parting of the Red Sea by Moses, Noah and the ark, or even Elijah’s fiery chariot.

In The Problem of Pain, Lewis wrote:

"I have the deepest respect for Pagan myths, still more for myths in the Holy Scriptures. In his book, Reflections on the Psalms, he wrote “I have therefore no difficulty accepting, say, the view of those scholars who tell us that the account of Creation in Genesis is derived from earlier Semitic stories which were Pagan and mythical."


So rather than believing what was written in Genesis as factual Lewis is claiming that he sides with "the view of those scholars who tell us that the account of Creation in Genesis is derived from earlier Semitic stories which were Pagan and mythical".

"the account of Creation in Genesis is derived from earlier Semitic stories which were Pagan and mythical"

So in the above we can see that Lewis believes that the biblical Genesis creation story is ripped off from Pagan myths.

Distinguishing between which myths to believe and which to discard seemed to be a struggle for C. S. Lewis.

In an interview with Roger Lancelyn Green for his book, C. S. Lewis: A Biography, Lewis was speaking of the difficult time he had when his wife was struggling with sickness saying:

"I had some ado to prevent Joy and myself from relapsing into Paganism in Attica! At Daphni it was hard not to pray to Apollo the Healer. But somehow one didn’t feel it would have been very wrong—would have only been addressing Christ sub specie Apollinis."


would have only been addressing Christ sub specie Apollinis.

Here Lewis is claiming Apollinis as a sub specie of Christ!!!!!

This is precisely what he did in his Narnia stories

Speaking of the atonement, Lewis said:

"Christ’s death was not a substitution for us, but rather something like the Roman Catholic idea of the storing-up of grace.” The late Dr. Martyn Lloyd Jones said of him: “Because C. S. Lewis was essentially a philosopher, his view of salvation was defective in two key respects: (1) Lewis believed and taught that one could reason oneself into Christianity, and (2) he was an opponent of the substitutionary and penal theory of the atonement(Christianity Today 20-12-63)".


John MacArthur criticizes C. S. Lewis’ idea of salvation saying:

….the wind of [new-model theology’s] influence blows in through every crack when we read C. S. Lewis’s Chronicles of Narnia stories.

Lewis was no theologian, and there’s no doubt that his views were squidgy on the question of eternal punishment. He held other views that make old-model evangelicals shudder.…..

In the final book of the Narnia series, a wicked ape drapes a lion skin over a witless a** and pretends the a** is Aslan.

It is a sinister and dangerous pretense, and in the end it leads countless Narnians astray.


Those promoting this guy on here don’t have a Clewis about the guy.

You need to repent of your promotion of Lewis - or should I say "change your mind" -

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9/26/2013 2:32:23 PM C.S. Lewis – was he a Christian?  
mindya
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (23,617)
Vancouver, BC
64, joined Jan. 2009


In his books Lewis amplified on his understanding of the Bible’s inspiration:

The earliest stratum of the Old Testament contains many truths in a form which I take to be legendary, or even mythical...

things like Noah’s Ark or the sun standing still upon Ajalon," while in the New Testament "history reigns supreme."

Elsewhere Lewis wrote:

"The first chapters of Genesis, no doubt, give the story in the form of a folktale…"

Again, Lewis penned:

"The Old Testament contains fabulous elements" which would include "Jonah and the Whale, Noah and his Ark"
Referring to the notion that :

"every sentence of the Old Testament has historical or scientific truth,"

Lewis admitted:

"This I do not hold, any more than St. Jerome did when he said that Moses described Creation ‘after the manner of a popular poet’ (as we should say, mythically) or than Calvin did when he doubted whether the story of Job were history or fiction."

Edgar Boss concluded:

"Lewis does not accept the plenary verbal theory of Inspiration."

Similarly, Lewis analyst Richard Cunningham deduced:

"Lewis did not believe in the infallibility or the verbal inspiration of the Scriptures."


So Lewis can hold these views and be promoted and praised while a few us here deny a totally literal view of Genesis and Noah's flood - which neither of us have claimed as "fabulous" or "mythical" yet we are called non-Christians, unbelievers, workers of the devil..

..........

9/26/2013 10:55:22 PM C.S. Lewis – was he a Christian?  

casheyesblond
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (17,297)
Belmont, NC
53, joined Feb. 2009


Quote from mindya:
In his books Lewis amplified on his understanding of the Bible’s inspiration:

The earliest stratum of the Old Testament contains many truths in a form which I take to be legendary, or even mythical...

things like Noah’s Ark or the sun standing still upon Ajalon," while in the New Testament "history reigns supreme."

Elsewhere Lewis wrote:

"The first chapters of Genesis, no doubt, give the story in the form of a folktale…"

Again, Lewis penned:

"The Old Testament contains fabulous elements" which would include "Jonah and the Whale, Noah and his Ark"
Referring to the notion that :

"every sentence of the Old Testament has historical or scientific truth,"

Lewis admitted:

"This I do not hold, any more than St. Jerome did when he said that Moses described Creation ‘after the manner of a popular poet’ (as we should say, mythically) or than Calvin did when he doubted whether the story of Job were history or fiction."

Edgar Boss concluded:

"Lewis does not accept the plenary verbal theory of Inspiration."

Similarly, Lewis analyst Richard Cunningham deduced:

"Lewis did not believe in the infallibility or the verbal inspiration of the Scriptures."


So Lewis can hold these views and be promoted and praised while a few us here deny a totally literal view of Genesis and Noah's flood - which neither of us have claimed as "fabulous" or "mythical" yet we are called non-Christians, unbelievers, workers of the devil..

..........

These ones that keep quoting their favorite Lewis' quotes have not read his writings.It's obvious.

From some of the very same places that the favorite quotes come from that they are quoting,you will find his other quotes within the same book where he mentions that he does not believe in a literal Adan and Eve and where refers to Noah's ark as mythical and folklore and many other things he mentions that they disagree with.

What they are doing is simply going online and finding quotes of his they like and re-posting them and then they bury their heads in the sand in regard to Lewis' theology.

In other words,they simply choose to ignore quotes of his like for example when he writes,"The first chapters of Genesis, no doubt, give the story in the form of a folktale…".



[Edited 9/26/2013 10:57:18 PM ]

9/27/2013 2:26:28 PM C.S. Lewis – was he a Christian?  
mindya
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (23,617)
Vancouver, BC
64, joined Jan. 2009


Quote from casheyesblond:
These ones that keep quoting their favorite Lewis' quotes have not read his writings.It's obvious.

From some of the very same places that the favorite quotes come from that they are quoting,you will find his other quotes within the same book where he mentions that he does not believe in a literal Adan and Eve and where refers to Noah's ark as mythical and folklore and many other things he mentions that they disagree with.

What they are doing is simply going online and finding quotes of his they like and re-posting them and then they bury their heads in the sand in regard to Lewis' theology.

In other words,they simply choose to ignore quotes of his like for example when he writes,"The first chapters of Genesis, no doubt, give the story in the form of a folktale…".


"What they are doing is simply going online and finding quotes of his they like and re-posting them and then they bury their heads in the sand in regard to Lewis' theology".

Of course they bury their heads - they don't want to accept that theologically Lewis was denying many portions of the old testament and claiming it as myth - there is nothing in our posts that have even hinted that we have claimed any of the bible as myth - what we dispute is the traditional woody literalism that fundymentalists insist on.

We have presented valid points on why Noah's flood was a regional event not a global one - we have not claimed the biblical event as "mythical" or "fabulous" as Lewis described the Noachian flood story.

We have shown that the Genesis creation story in the bible can be understood literally in other ways and that young earth creationism stands on a "woody literalism" - we are not claiming that the creation story is based on Pagan Myths as Lewis claims.

Yet we are the non-Christian, unbelievers and workers of satan.

I don't see these kind of accusations being hurled at C.S. Lewis because he wrote some supposedly "pithy" and "uplifting" sayings that soothes their frazzled nerves.

The hypocrisy is really evident in what they do and say.

It must be a low IQ thing after all with these people - they've never got over that thread on right wing conservatism being related to low IQ...

And of course they keep providing examples of behaviour that confirms the studies findings...

9/28/2013 6:29:33 PM C.S. Lewis – was he a Christian?  

casheyesblond
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (17,297)
Belmont, NC
53, joined Feb. 2009


quote from mindya
Of course they bury their heads - they don't want to accept that theologically Lewis was denying many portions of the old testament and claiming it as myth

A recent article in Christianity Today addressed this as well with mentioning that C.S. Lewis was anything but a classic evangelical, socially or theologically and that he didn't subscribe to biblical inerrancy or penal substitution.And in the Christianity Today article the question was asked,"How did someone with such a checkered pedigree come to be a theological Elvis Presley, adored by evangelicals?"

I as well find it quite interesting how biblical literalists will promote C.S. Lewis as theological Elvis Presley while simultaneously burying their heads in the sand when it comes to Lewis denying many portions of the old testament and claiming it as myth.


quote from mindya
there is nothing in our posts that have even hinted that we have claimed any of the bible as myth

You are exactly right,we have never claimed any part of the Bible as myth but C.S. Lewis did.

And yet we have Biblical literalists promoting C.S. Lewis sayings in a Christian forum as if he is some kind of theological Elvis Presley while referring to you and myself as non Christians,false Christians, and workers of satan,etc.


quote from mindya
what we dispute is the traditional woody literalism that fundymentalists insist on.

We have presented valid points on why Noah's flood was a regional event not a global one

When someone disputes their traditional woody literalism that these fundymentalists insist on,then the fundymentalists aka Biblical literalists will falsely claim that you are trying to refute the Bible itself.

Within their prideful arrogance and theological naivety that is brutally apparent,fundymentalists aka biblical literalists are quick to claim that they are the only ones presenting God's view and only their literal interpretation is correct.

These ones fear genuine Bible scholarship and will ignore scholarly Greek and Hebrew Lexicons (e.g., Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew Lexicon, Thayer's Greek Dictionary, and Vine's Bible Dictionary) that also use Strong's numbers for cross-referencing, encouraging hermeneutical approaches to study.


So therefore the fundymentalists aka biblical literalist will of course bury their hands in the sand and ignore that Erets is the Hebrew word that translated "earth" throughout the flood account and does not require a world-wide meaning and this same word translated "country" 140 times and "land" 1,476 times in the Bible.


quote from mindya
we have not claimed the biblical event as "mythical" or "fabulous" as Lewis described the Noachian flood story.

Again I say,and yet we have Biblical literalists promoting C.S. Lewis sayings in a Christian forum as if he is some kind of theological Elvis Presley while referring to you and myself as non Christians,false Christians, and workers of satan,etc.



quote from mindya
I don't see these kind of accusations being hurled at C.S. Lewis because he wrote some supposedly "pithy" and "uplifting" sayings that soothes their frazzled nerves.

The hypocrisy is really evident in what they do and say.

The hypocrisy is evident indeed !


quote from mindya
It must be a low IQ thing after all with these people - they've never got over that thread on right wing conservatism being related to low IQ...

And of course they keep providing examples of behaviour that confirms the studies findings..

As I mentioned before,a low IQ or an overly developed reliance on cognitive dissonance.

9/29/2013 12:31:06 AM C.S. Lewis – was he a Christian?  

casheyesblond
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (17,297)
Belmont, NC
53, joined Feb. 2009


quote from mindya
Why would scientific facts challenge any ones faith?

While my faith is bible based the main source of my faith is the revelation of Jesus himself through the spirit.

No supposed "challenge" from science will ever shake that revelation of Christ.
What science will do is cause me to look deeper into my understanding of scripture to re-evaluate what I hold to be "true" - just as Copernicus' and Galileo's scientific observations caused Christendom to re-evaluate it's understanding that the earth moves around the sun and not the sun around the earth.

We can see how the religious establishment at the time the Roman Catholic church handled that.

What young earth creationists are doing is trying to make themselves wise unto creation rather than wise unto salvation - this is an error and was not the purpose for which the scripture were given.

(2 Tim 3:15 KJV) And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Faith in Jesus Christ is developed from a personal encounter with the risen Christ.

I feel pity for those whose faith is easily shaken by the discoveries of science.




9/29/2013 11:42:46 AM C.S. Lewis – was he a Christian?  
mindya
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (23,617)
Vancouver, BC
64, joined Jan. 2009


Quote from casheyesblond:
quote from mindya
Why would scientific facts challenge any ones faith?

While my faith is bible based the main source of my faith is the revelation of Jesus himself through the spirit.

No supposed "challenge" from science will ever shake that revelation of Christ.
What science will do is cause me to look deeper into my understanding of scripture to re-evaluate what I hold to be "true" - just as Copernicus' and Galileo's scientific observations caused Christendom to re-evaluate it's understanding that the earth moves around the sun and not the sun around the earth.

We can see how the religious establishment at the time the Roman Catholic church handled that.

What young earth creationists are doing is trying to make themselves wise unto creation rather than wise unto salvation - this is an error and was not the purpose for which the scripture were given.

(2 Tim 3:15 KJV) And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Faith in Jesus Christ is developed from a personal encounter with the risen Christ.

I feel pity for those whose faith is easily shaken by the discoveries of science.




Thanks for bringing up that post of mine Cash.

9/30/2013 10:51:02 AM C.S. Lewis – was he a Christian?  
mindya
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (23,617)
Vancouver, BC
64, joined Jan. 2009


I see the Lewis groupies are back to whining again.

10/1/2013 1:19:33 AM C.S. Lewis – was he a Christian?  

casheyesblond
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (17,297)
Belmont, NC
53, joined Feb. 2009


Quote from mindya:
I see the Lewis groupies are back to whining again.

And not only whining,how exactly is blocking and unblocking,blocking and unblocking an act of forgiveness? And forgiveness for what exactly ?

I do not seek or need forgiveness for discussing C.S. Lewis' theological views/positions.

If others can have a C.S. Lewis' favorite inspirational quoting party,then why should I not be able to address his theology.

This is a Christian forum and it is the appropriate place to address C.S. Lewis' theological views/positions.

As for the title to this thread,it is in the form of a question only.

That is more respect and courtesy than was extended to us.In regard to you and I,they just flat out claimed that we were not Christians,saying we don't belong in the Christian forum and so and so on.

I don't have time for the hypocrisy .

10/1/2013 12:33:44 PM C.S. Lewis – was he a Christian?  
mindya
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (23,617)
Vancouver, BC
64, joined Jan. 2009


Quote from casheyesblond:
This is a Christian forum and it is the appropriate place to address C.S. Lewis' theological views/positions.

As for the title to this thread,it is in the form of a question only. And not only whining, how exactly is blocking and unblocking,blocking and unblocking an act of forgiveness? And forgiveness for what exactly ?


You are right this thread topic is posed as a question and was intended to delve into Lewis' very unorthodox theology and how he rejected parts of the Old Testament stories such as the parting of the Red Sea, Noah's flood and the creation story in Genesis as "myth" and "fabulous"

I had to chuckle at that poster that claimed they had forgiven me for causing them to block me and then turns around again and slams me...

Talk about flaky - the flake forgiveth and the flake taketh away...

Same poster had me on and off their friends list numerous times and had the cheek to lie about it and claim it was some kind of DH glitch - I wasn't fooled for one minute each time that happened.

First time I disappeared off their friends list is when I challenged their claim that men has one rib less than women - I guess these types can't handle having their faulty knowledge challenged.



[Edited 10/1/2013 12:35:27 PM ]