Did Muhammed Exist??

1/22/2014 7:44:22 AM	Did Muhammed Exist??
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 67, joined Dec. 2010	Good debate, starts at 15.00 I bought this book last year and found it very interesting. I like Spencers stuff, and his method of discussing it. he carefully uses the hadieths from the books his opponent uses, as opposed to all of them, relieving them of the opportunity to make the same old worn out excuse, we don't honor those. About halfway through, the muslim tries the same excuses I see here, and point out, all the time. Predictable excuses. Blame the Christians. Blame the jews. Attack the messenger change the subject. Avoid direct answers. Meet singles at DateHookup.dating, we're 100% free! Join now!
1/22/2014 4:31:37 PM	Did Muhammed Exist??
frank_underwood Columbia, SC 61, joined Jun. 2013	Muhammad
1/22/2014 7:37:30 PM	Did Muhammed Exist??
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 67, joined Dec. 2010	Quote from frank_underwood: Muhammad There are a few different spellings. The phony apologists will claim the first writings which are 60 years to late anyway, are proof of his existence......However.... The first writings are from Christian sources, and speak of the "Mahood". a title, and not a proper name. "The Chosen One" A title used to represent Joseph, Mary, Jesus, and even the 5th Calief, Malick And when looking up the writings, they speak of the "godless pagens", and theactivities are not preaching a religion, they are massacring people in conquest, so muslims are at a loss to even argue, or attempt to explain, this. It would be over 100 years late, when his death is first documented.
1/24/2014 12:59:26 PM	Did Muhammed Exist??
frank_underwood Columbia, SC 61, joined Jun. 2013	The only thing worse than Christian radio is Christian rock
1/24/2014 1:03:03 PM	Did Muhammed Exist??
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 67, joined Dec. 2010	I agree, Christians are annoying, However.. Muslims have orders from God to kill you.
1/24/2014 3:04:14 PM	Did Muhammed Exist??
frank_underwood Columbia, SC 61, joined Jun. 2013	Why not? The infidels have grossly tresspassed
1/25/2014 10:48:27 AM	Did Muhammed Exist??
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 67, joined Dec. 2010	Not sure what you are referring to. "Infidel" is a Christian term.
1/25/2014 3:06:03 PM	Did Muhammed Exist??
frank_underwood Columbia, SC 61, joined Jun. 2013	Infidel is a generic term. The Crusaders where definitely infidels to the Muslims. Contemporarily, the US were definitely infidels in Saudi Arabia during the Gulf War (Desert Shield), especially since Mecca is the holiest of Muslim cities & the birthplace of Muhammad!
1/25/2014 7:14:02 PM	Did Muhammed Exist??
zenpaxamoris Fredericksburg, VA 50, joined May. 2012	I think Mohammed existed, and I think he was a messiah (messenger) I also believe that Jesus and Buddha were all real, human and had messages about different paths to the divine. No one Messiah is better than the other, and no path is better, or more "holy". I also believe that one does not need to follow any particular path. People are also capable of reaching out to the divine on their own. All prayers are sacred and heard. I am Pagan and believe there is a God and Goddess. I think nature is a finer cathedral, and more beautiful than any church man has built from the same wood or stone. The divine is everywhere, and in everything. A dandelion as well as a Sequoia, a mouse as well as a panther. We humans have been gifted with intellect and yet we seem to use it more for bashing and belittling others when we should be raising them up and protecting the weak. India recently joined Costa Rica, Hungary and Chile protecting dolphins as "non human persons". Shutting down all performing dolphin parks, saying it is morally wrong to exploit cetaceans. How wonderful! I think it's absolutely a step in the right direction. Who knows? maybe the next messiah will be a non human.
1/26/2014 5:26:47 AM	Did Muhammed Exist??
frank_underwood Columbia, SC 61, joined Jun. 2013	^ nice post. I wish men would stop abusing plants & treating them like inanimate objects
1/26/2014 10:57:01 AM	Did Muhammed Exist??
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 67, joined Dec. 2010	Quote from zenpaxamoris: I think Mohammed existed, and I think he was a messiah (messenger) I also believe that Jesus and Buddha were all real, human and had messages about different paths to the divine. No one Messiah is better than the other, and no path is better, or more "holy". I also believe that one does not need to follow any particular path. People are also capable of reaching out to the divine on their own. All prayers are sacred and heard. I am Pagan and believe there is a God and Goddess. I think nature is a finer cathedral, and more beautiful than any church man has built from the same wood or stone. The divine is everywhere, and in everything. A dandelion as well as a Sequoia, a mouse as well as a panther. We humans have been gifted with intellect and yet we seem to use it more for bashing and belittling others when we should be raising them up and protecting the weak. India recently joined Costa Rica, Hungary and Chile protecting dolphins as "non human persons". Shutting down all performing dolphin parks, saying it is morally wrong to exploit cetaceans. How wonderful! I think it's absolutely a step in the right direction. Who knows? maybe the next messiah will be a non human. I have to agree with much of what you are saying, and feel if you are truly looking for God, you are not going to find him in a book. My argument about Muhammed is within the factual evidence gathered, and it is more than likly someone did exist to set the model, and there is a suspect. Most scholars agree, muhammed is a composite character, and the teachings attributed tohim, cannot be put on the same level as the other religious charactors mentioned. Muhammed, as written, was an unscrupulous warlord, and no holy man, he was a thief, amurderer, a rapist, a pedophile, a psycopath, I could go on and on. The muhammed written about was fine, as the muslims went on a 1200 year rampage, killing for God, and giving 20% of the booty collected to the leaders. But he does not fit into the 21st century civilized world. Islam is, as we speak, inventing a new Muhammed, going to great pains to hide the original writings, to present a different person to the western world.
1/26/2014 3:20:41 PM	Did Muhammed Exist??
mischiefmanaged Bellevue, WA 47, joined Jul. 2010	I think all prophets existed, and nearly all prophets have been warped to fit people's own agendas. prophets come to save people form themselves, and predictably people F things up when they're gone. good grief who was it that found the 10 commandments? moses? He leaves the camp for a day or 2 and tells everyone to behave. After a day- what happens? people f#ck!ng things up and the guy isn't even dead yet, he just took a jaunt up a mountain. we wear clothes, use tableware, but in broad terms we're often just like all the other animals.
1/26/2014 3:32:42 PM	Did Muhammed Exist??
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 67, joined Dec. 2010	The problem here is that Muhammed was not a prophet. A prophet makes prophasy's, muhammed did not. He was a warlord. It is, however the fictional person created, 200 years later that is idolized.
1/26/2014 7:59:14 PM	Did Muhammed Exist??
cupocheer Assumption, IL 68, joined May. 2010	And Jim I ask: Did Jesus exist?
1/26/2014 11:24:37 PM	Did Muhammed Exist??
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 67, joined Dec. 2010	I don't know, I haven't studied christianity as much as Islam, however we do not have anything from his lifetime.
1/26/2014 11:40:42 PM	Did Muhammed Exist??
cupocheer Assumption, IL 68, joined May. 2010	So you have studied the Quran sp?
1/27/2014 8:06:44 AM	Did Muhammed Exist??
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 67, joined Dec. 2010	Quote from cupocheer: So you have studied the Quran sp? I have studied Islam, far more that the Qur'an. The Qur'an is only 14% of Islamic text, and cannot be understood without the rest.
1/27/2014 11:13:52 AM	Did Muhammed Exist??
cupocheer Assumption, IL 68, joined May. 2010	Qur'an (TY) But doesn't the Qur'an NOT stand alone in its teachings but is supplemented by another manual?
1/27/2014 11:51:30 AM	Did Muhammed Exist??
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 67, joined Dec. 2010	Absolutly not. As I said the Qur'an is 14% of Islamic text, and ironically the Qur'an of today is 9th century, not 7th, as is presented. The first documentation is the Sirat Rasual Allah, more commonly called "Ishaq's Sira", and is the only biography of muhammed written within 200 years of his life time, The original no longer exists, but was edited, and 4/5th of it destroyed because of "matters that would distress people." It is one of the most vile books ever written, and would be illegal in a pornographic movie. It graphically describes the person, muslims are supposed to emulate. Next is Taburi, and it contains some of what was lost in the Sira, but nobody knows exactly what. Bukhari shows up 250 years later, as pure fabrication, Hadiths gathered by Iman Bukhari, estamates of 300.000 to 600.000, ( depending who you resource) were looked at and 7,000 were deemed authentic. 7000 out of 300.000 indicates one thing, and one thing only. There was a whole lot of bullshittin going on. After that is Muslim. There are the 5 works that all of Islam is based on, and you need these works to understand the Qur'an.
1/27/2014 12:00:44 PM	Did Muhammed Exist??
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 67, joined Dec. 2010	Something you will notice also, is muslims will not dare touch this thread. I deal with factual info only. They look, and send me nasty PM's, but are to cowardly to get on it and discuss info.
1/27/2014 1:39:45 PM	Did Muhammed Exist??
cupocheer Assumption, IL 68, joined May. 2010	I'm not contending your study of Islam, Jim -- I am merely curious. There is a book which Muslims use, in conjunction with the Qu'ran, which is from the prophet Mohammad, and gives instruction for Muslim everyday life. Do you know the name of that book?
1/27/2014 2:10:19 PM	Did Muhammed Exist??
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 67, joined Dec. 2010	Quote from cupocheer: I'm not contending your study of Islam, Jim -- I am merely curious. There is a book which Muslims use, in conjunction with the Qu'ran, which is from the prophet Mohammad, and gives instruction for Muslim everyday life. Do you know the name of that book? First of all, there is no book from Muhammed, hell, they cannot even verify he ever lived. I am sure you are speaking of something one of the sect's created, and is not used straight across the board.
1/27/2014 2:32:30 PM	Did Muhammed Exist??
cupocheer Assumption, IL 68, joined May. 2010	@ Jim ~~ In your study of Islam you surely have some knowledge of the instructions which Mohammad left for his followers with concerns for their daily lives, along with Mohammad's interpretations of the Qu'ran, didn't you? Where does the directive come from that a good and faithful Muslim always wash themselves 3 times?
1/27/2014 3:04:10 PM	Did Muhammed Exist??
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 67, joined Dec. 2010	I believe what you are referring to is whodo, ( Bad spelling) or abolution, which is ordered in the Qur'an, but clarified in hadiths of Bukhari and muslim, written 300 years later. None of this is from Muhammed. I am sure there are different versions in all sects. BTW, this must be done after touching a woman, or if not possible, use dirt. (Dirt is cleaner than women).
1/27/2014 3:27:33 PM	Did Muhammed Exist??
cupocheer Assumption, IL 68, joined May. 2010	First of all, there is no book from Muhammed, WRONG hell, they cannot even verify he ever lived. PROVE THAT MOHAMMAD DIDN'T LIVE I am sure you are speaking of something one of the sect's created, WRONG and is not used straight across the board. WRONG I believe what you are referring to is whodo, ( Bad spelling) or abolution, which is ordered in the Qur'an, but clarified in hadiths of Bukhari and muslim, written 300 years later. None of this is from Muhammed. I am sure there are different versions in all sects. Great job of perusing Google for a "quickie" reply ... but not good enough ... try again, please. BTW, this must be done after touching a woman, or if not possible, use dirt. (Dirt is cleaner than women). Your misrepresentation of why dirt may be used for cleansing the hands, if nothing else available, is lacking in true substance and reflects a "talking-down" attitude of a man to a woman when the man cannot answer the question put to him. What does the Qu'ran say about devout Muslims eating pork?
1/27/2014 5:37:00 PM	Did Muhammed Exist??
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 67, joined Dec. 2010	Quote from cupocheer: [ PROVE THAT MOHAMMAD DIDN'T LIVE LOLOL Prove that unicorns don't exist. Nobody can do that. It is up to the religion to prove he existed, not others to prove he didn't. And they cannot. I have an invisible magic penguin, and you cannot prove that I don't. The first writings of muhammed appear 60 years after him, and are from Christian sources. He is also referred to as the Mahood, "the chosen one", a title shared by Mary, Joseph, Jesus, and the third calief, Malick. Malick also had to conquer Mecca, as there was no muhammed influence there when he was in power. It was Malick who probably had the greatest effect on the beginning of Islam. Muhammed is not in the Qur'an, only mentioned 4 times, and at least 3 could be referring to someone else All the info about muhammed is fabrication, the first being 125 years too late, though somebody probably did exist to set the model. This topic is covered by Spencer in depth, and if you are looking for an answer, I would suggest his writings. It would be 100 years before his death is written about.
1/27/2014 5:39:46 PM	Did Muhammed Exist??
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 67, joined Dec. 2010	And BTW, I an not going to dwell on stupid questions, If you want to know why muslims don't eat pork, it is easily looked up.
1/27/2014 7:48:33 PM	Did Muhammed Exist??
cupocheer Assumption, IL 68, joined May. 2010	I already know the answers to the questions I ask, Jim. Too bad the elementary ones are too difficult for you to comprehend. Good luck with your continued Islamic studies. FAIL
1/27/2014 7:49:25 PM	Did Muhammed Exist??
cupocheer Assumption, IL 68, joined May. 2010
1/28/2014 8:40:48 AM	Did Muhammed Exist??
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 67, joined Dec. 2010	Quote from cupocheer: I already know the answers to the questions I ask, Jim. Too bad the elementary ones are too difficult for you to comprehend. Good luck with your continued Islamic studies. FAIL LOLOLOL
1/28/2014 8:44:26 AM	Did Muhammed Exist??
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 67, joined Dec. 2010	It's unlikely you actually do, It appears you are using the Qur'an as the only source for your info, and you will learn very little about Islam, by reading just the Qur'an. You are not even in contention here. This particular thread is Islam 102, not the bullshit you are reading.
1/28/2014 12:08:00 PM	Did Muhammed Exist??
whatnam Pilot Mountain, NC 36, joined Mar. 2013	Quote from jim_a49: I agree, Christians are annoying, However.. Muslims have orders from God to kill you. and how's that working for the muslims...the only reason we as an american society hasn't totally killed everyone of them is because some do worshio islam which is peace if muslims have orders then why can't they do it
1/28/2014 12:47:02 PM	Did Muhammed Exist??
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 67, joined Dec. 2010	Quote from whatnam: and how's that working for the muslims...the only reason we as an american society hasn't totally killed everyone of them is because some do worshio islam which is peace if muslims have orders then why can't they do it You have your definition of Islam a little c*ckeyed. Islam is the religion of peace, but what they don't say is the peace comes only after they kill everyone else. Christianity does not order the killing of non-Christians.
1/30/2014 1:08:56 AM	Did Muhammed Exist??
mischiefmanaged Bellevue, WA 47, joined Jul. 2010	Quote from jim_a49: The problem here is that Muhammed was not a prophet. A prophet makes prophasy's, muhammed did not. He was a warlord. It is, however the fictional person created, 200 years later that is idolized. shrug whatever. exchange "prophet" for whatever term you want. they think he's important so it really doesn't matter if we call him a prophet, a leader, or a clown.
1/30/2014 8:36:00 AM	Did Muhammed Exist??
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 67, joined Dec. 2010	Quote from mischiefmanaged: shrug whatever. exchange "prophet" for whatever term you want. they think he's important so it really doesn't matter if we call him a prophet, a leader, or a clown. This is true, but none of them feel he is important enough to actually read about. Something I have noticed, is almost zero muslims I encounter, and I see quite a few in my daily life, know anything about the main charactor of their religion.
1/30/2014 3:41:06 PM	Did Muhammed Exist??
frank_underwood Columbia, SC 61, joined Jun. 2013	Quote from jim_a49: Christianity does not order the killing of non-Christians The US just labels them as terrorists & then kills them. Two Holy Wars have been started by the US & both have ended in failure. OP is just trying to incite another war
1/30/2014 4:27:46 PM	Did Muhammed Exist??
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 67, joined Dec. 2010	I believe you are referrng to muslims, and it was Muhammed who labeled them as terrorists. And how does that tie in to Christianity, \\OOps it doesn't. Read a book.
1/30/2014 5:15:43 PM	Did Muhammed Exist??
frank_underwood Columbia, SC 61, joined Jun. 2013	Quote from jim_a49: Read a book. Scorpio Ox (1949) yin water & yin water a nihilist meets a bulldozer
1/31/2014 10:23:46 AM	Did Muhammed Exist??
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 67, joined Dec. 2010	I hoped for some intelligent input on topic, obviously not forthcoming.
1/31/2014 3:48:46 PM	Did Muhammed Exist??
frank_underwood Columbia, SC 61, joined Jun. 2013	said the bulldozer
2/1/2014 9:32:57 AM	Did Muhammed Exist??
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 67, joined Dec. 2010	All well and good if you live alone in the desert. However we have societies, that have, and need, rules to function.
2/19/2014 3:08:02 PM	Did Muhammed Exist??
up2youandme Chandler, AZ 42, joined Jan. 2014	Quote from jim_a49: Something you will notice also, is muslims will not dare touch this thread. I deal with factual info only. They look, and send me nasty PM's, but are to cowardly to get on it and discuss info. That's funny people would equate cowardice to Muslims. Hello there's nothing cowardly about the Muslims or the TSA will be put to bed. Think yourself lucky they don't engage you on here cause it would undoubtedly result in your demise.
2/19/2014 8:17:57 PM	Did Muhammed Exist??
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 67, joined Dec. 2010	Quote from up2youandme: That's funny people would equate cowardice to Muslims. Hello there's nothing cowardly about the Muslims or the TSA will be put to bed. Think yourself lucky they don't engage you on here cause it would undoubtedly result in your demise. That was pretty f**king stupid. Muslims are pushing for was all over the world, as per quranic doctrine, however common sense says they will be put down when the civilized world says enough is enough. And BTW, I deal with muslims almost daily, they are punks for the most part.
5/12/2014 9:05:58 AM	Did Muhammed Exist??
jim_a49 Bellevue, WA 67, joined Dec. 2010	Quote from up2youandme: That's funny people would equate cowardice to Muslims. Hello there's nothing cowardly about the Muslims or the TSA will be put to bed. Think yourself lucky they don't engage you on here cause it would undoubtedly result in your demise. It seems they are to cowardly to engage me on here. It kind of sucks for them, when I use provable facts, and they don't.

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