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2/28/2016 2:06:52 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (6,711)
Kingman, AZ
73, joined May. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
It is unreasonable to expect God, or anyone else, to forgive, unless the perpetrator apologizes and promises not to repeat the offense.


You don't have a good understanding of God. God expects you to forgive whether or not the "perpetrator" apologizes and promises not to repeat, etc. He not only expects, but He requires it in order for you to be forgiven. It seems "unreasonable" to you because God's ways are not your ways. Many wrongs simply cannot be made to go away or be undone by the perpetrator apologizing and promising not to repeat. If Hitler apologized and promised not to repeat, how would that bring 6 million Jews back to life? Some things cannot be fixed. Forgiveness has to occur regardless. Yes, you don't like it. You want revenge and punishment for wrongdoers, or apologies with promises not to repeat. But God doesn't look at it that way. He most likely looks upon us as immature children in most all the "wrong" things we do, and a wise parent does not punish children for being immature. Forgiving others, as Jesus says at Matthew 6:14-15 is a hard pill to swallow. Perhaps that's yet another teaching of Jesus that you are not able to accept. But it will be your lucky day if God looks upon your disobedience to Him as simply a matter of spiritual immaturity and not willful evil.

"For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." (Mat 6:14-15)

You keep making up your own stuff and adding it to God and to Jesus.

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2/28/2016 2:24:46 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (6,711)
Kingman, AZ
73, joined May. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
It is unreasonable to expect God, or anyone else, to forgive, unless the perpetrator apologizes and promises not to repeat the offense.


The words "apologize" and "apology" are not in the bible. Your ways are clearly not God's ways. You don't really believe much of what God said, through His Son Jesus, do you?

"For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." (Mat 6:14-15)

Joh_6:60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?

Isn't it funny that nowhere in the bible does Jesus say, "You won't be forgiven unless you apologize and promise not to repeat the alleged offense." Why do you persist in adding your understanding to God's clear statements? It's because you don't know God and you don't really love Him.

Isa_55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

2/28/2016 7:11:28 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (23,970)
Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


Without apologizing to God, without confessing, without firm purpose of amendment, there is no forgiveness for sin.

Imagine a parole board sitting. The convict is brought in. The chairman asks the convict, "Are you sorry for what you've done?"

"Uh, yeah, I guess so," says the convict.

"Will you apologize to the victim's family?"

"Nope."

"Will you commit any more crimes if we parole you?"

"If you parole me, I'll kill the cop who arrested me, the D.A. who prosecuted me, and all the witnessed who testified against me."

Does this convict seem sorry for what he did? Do you think this convict should be paroled?

2/28/2016 8:02:48 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (6,711)
Kingman, AZ
73, joined May. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Without apologizing to God, without confessing, without firm purpose of amendment, there is no forgiveness for sin.


But Jesus doesn't say that. You are in constant conflict with Jesus and rebellion against God, adding to His words with your own homemade doctrines. It's because you don't love Him, as He says.

I deleted your convict stuff. It's all irrelevant. Jesus' kingdom is not of this world. God's ways are not your ways. YOU MUST FORGIVE OTHERS OR YOUR SINS WILL NOT BE FORGIVEN YOU. THAT'S WHAT GOD SAYS. God says nothing about apologizing and all your other homemade blah, blah.

"For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." (Mat 6:14-15)

Everyday I am more stunned by the depth of your un-love for God.

And if Jesus died for your sins, which Christianity teaches, then all your confessions are a waste of time. But you don't believe that Jesus died for your sins, do you? Didn't you say that Jesus only died to give you the grace for something or other? Christianity doesn't teach that. You're not really a Christian. You're just a Catholic.

2/28/2016 11:20:34 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (23,970)
Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


God will not forgive an unrepentant sinner. Common sense tells you that.

2/29/2016 12:44:17 AM The Urantia book is of satan.  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (6,711)
Kingman, AZ
73, joined May. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
God will not forgive an unrepentant sinner. Common sense tells you that.


You are ever at odds with Jesus and His Teachings.

"For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." (Mat 6:14-15)

2/29/2016 1:25:06 AM The Urantia book is of satan.  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (6,711)
Kingman, AZ
73, joined May. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
God will not forgive an unrepentant sinner. Common sense tells you that.


Common sense tells people that God would never, ever torture His children. It doesn't tell you that because you don't know God.

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (1 John 2:4)

2/29/2016 2:22:27 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (23,970)
Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


The souls in Hell chose not to be God's children, so the souls in Hell forfeit God's fatherhood.

God leaves the choice up to us. We can choose obedience to God or disobedience to Him. If we choose the latter we choose the consequences of that.

Do you find the prospect of torture forever unpleasant? Then return to the Church and live a good life.

2/29/2016 3:30:55 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (10,248)
Jacksonville, FL
75, joined Apr. 2011


Catholic doctrine has corrupted you, Ludlow. You are no more a Christian than the murderous Pharisees.

2/29/2016 5:34:13 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (23,970)
Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


Was Jesus a my derous Pharisee, for teaching that Hell exists and that there is fire there?

2/29/2016 6:23:53 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (10,248)
Jacksonville, FL
75, joined Apr. 2011


Bigd9832 has corrected you dozens of times on this, Ludlow. Jesus wasn't a Pharisees. You are so corrupt you spew out nonsense.

2/29/2016 9:42:01 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (23,970)
Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


Hell is real and is the ultimate fate of all unrepentant sinners. This is something Jesus taught, not the Pharisees.

2/29/2016 10:46:27 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (6,711)
Kingman, AZ
73, joined May. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Hell is real and is the ultimate fate of all unrepentant sinners. This is something Jesus taught...


Where did Jesus teach this?

2/29/2016 10:59:14 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (6,711)
Kingman, AZ
73, joined May. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
The souls in Hell chose not to be God's children, so the souls in Hell forfeit God's fatherhood.

God leaves the choice up to us. We can choose obedience to God or disobedience to Him. If we choose the latter we choose the consequences of that.


When are you going to be obedient to God and stop calling priests, "Father," as Jesus said? If you continue to choose not to obey, if you choose the latter as you said, you choose the consequences of that, spiritual death, personality extinction. And you will have yourself to blame. You won't be able to say, "the pope made me do it."

Do you find the prospect of torture forever unpleasant? Then return to the Church and live a good life.


You are a spiritually sick man, Lud, to believe what you do about God the Father and to repeat blasphemy about Him. He would never torture His children. It's apparent that you don't love Him. Jesus said it and Jesus is right. Your church has spiritually sickened you, but in the long run, you have agreed to it and welcomed it. That's the way it is with rebellers.

"the way of transgressors is hard." Proverbs 13:15

2/29/2016 11:02:22 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (6,711)
Kingman, AZ
73, joined May. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Hell is real and is the ultimate fate of all unrepentant sinners. This is something Jesus taught,


This is some things that Jesus taught:

"Call no man your father upon the earth: "for one is your Father, which is in heaven." (Matthew 23:9)

"If a man love me, he will keep my words."(John 14:23)
"He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings." (John 14:24)

And the word which you have heard, is not mine; but the Father's who sent me." (John 14:24)

Do you believe anything Jesus taught? Do you believe any of the above?

2/29/2016 11:29:41 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (23,970)
Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


Hell is for real, FJO. Don't kid yourself.

3/1/2016 1:06:04 AM The Urantia book is of satan.  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (6,711)
Kingman, AZ
73, joined May. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Hell is for real, FJO. Don't kid yourself.


Hell is a creation of the Catholic church, as is Limbo and Purgatory. Hell does not exist in the Old Testament. If you love God you would know God, and if you knew God you would know that there can be no such place as Hell.

I feel sorry for you.

3/1/2016 7:09:50 AM The Urantia book is of satan.  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (23,970)
Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


Hell, Purgatory, and Limbo are creations of God.

3/1/2016 8:28:49 AM The Urantia book is of satan.  

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (10,248)
Jacksonville, FL
75, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Hell is real and is the ultimate fate of all unrepentant sinners.

Then you are a fool to keep sinning and blaspheming God.

3/1/2016 11:22:19 AM The Urantia book is of satan.  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (23,970)
Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


I have repented and gone to Confession.

3/1/2016 11:37:23 AM The Urantia book is of satan.  

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (10,248)
Jacksonville, FL
75, joined Apr. 2011


Why are you lying and mocking even your confession? You haven't repented. You still consistently lie and bear false witness and you reject the teachings of Jesus and believe and teach like the murderous Pharisees. You are truly corrupt, Ludlow.

3/1/2016 3:20:22 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (6,711)
Kingman, AZ
73, joined May. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
I have repented and gone to Confession.


You have repented for what? For refusing to obey Jesus? And you have confessed that sin to a priest who also refuses to obey Jesus?

"Call no man your father upon the earth: "for one is your Father, which is in heaven." (Matthew 23:9)

What a monstrous trap you are in!

3/2/2016 11:14:19 AM The Urantia book is of satan.  

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (10,248)
Jacksonville, FL
75, joined Apr. 2011


Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill Witches (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Kill Homosexuals (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
Kill Fortunetellers (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Death for Hitting Dad (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Death for Cursing Parents (Proverbs 20:20 NAB, Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
Death for Adultery (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
Death for Fornication (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
Death to Followers of Other Religions (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
Kill Nonbelievers (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Kill False Prophets (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God (Deuteronomy 13:13-18 NLT)
Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
Kill Followers of Other Religions. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB, Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)
Death for Blasphemy (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)
Kill False Prophets (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT, Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)
Infidels and Gays Should Die (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)
Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)
Kill People for Working on the Sabbath (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
Kill Sons of Sinners (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

Do you "Christians" actually believe God/Jesus would order man to kill people for those reasons?

Quote from Ludlow:
I do. God is not the wimpy pushover you think He is, KB.

You are truly a pathetic liar, Ludlow. It is YOU not me who asserts God is a "wimpy pushover" and a "marshmallow" if He doesn't order man to stone and burn people to death for all those reasons and that is outrageously despicable and blasphemous. You are not a Christian, Ludlow. You reject the loving nature of God that Jesus revealed and believe like the murderous Pharisees who rejected and killed Him. Don't deceive yourself, Ludlow. You are not fooling God with your lies and false teachings.

3/2/2016 2:56:10 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

lmarcox2
Antonio de BiedmaMexico City
Mexico
32, joined Jun. 2015


Quote from followjesusonly:
You don't really know anything about The Urantia Book. You've just gleaned that from some Christian website. You're no different than the guy who said, "He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?" (John 10:20)

Better that you should "Come and see" as Philip said to Nathaniel. Read it for yourself.

This is the one to get, this cover. It's less than $18 at Amazon.com. Less than $18 for a new revelation from God's government to our world:

                                
Without wanting to bother you here at all, is the above physical book better than the physical books (editions) by the URANTIA Foundation?
I mean: the physical editions of the URANTIA Foundation are good but their pages are so thin that you can see on a page the text of the next page or 2 pages. Does the same happen with the above book by the URANTIA Fellowship??? That's why, among other reasons, you recommend this one??? Thanks!!!.
And to the one who critiqued the science of The URANTIA Book, you don't know this from its page 1109 (emphasis in the original):
4. The Limitations of Revelation

101:4.1 (1109.2) Because your world is generally ignorant of origins, even of physical origins, it has appeared to be wise from time to time to provide instruction in cosmology. And always has this made trouble for the future. The laws of revelation hamper us greatly by their proscription of the impartation of unearned or premature knowledge. Any cosmology presented as a part of revealed religion is destined to be outgrown in a very short time. Accordingly, future students of such a revelation are tempted to discard any element of genuine religious truth it may contain because they discover errors on the face of the associated cosmologies therein presented.

101:4.2 (1109.3) Mankind should understand that we who participate in the revelation of truth are very rigorously limited by the instructions of our superiors. We are not at liberty to anticipate the scientific discoveries of a thousand years. Revelators must act in accordance with the instructions which form a part of the revelation mandate. We see no way of overcoming this difficulty, either now or at any future time. We full well know that, while the historic facts and religious truths of this series of revelatory presentations will stand on the records of the ages to come, within a few short years many of our statements regarding the physical sciences will stand in need of revision in consequence of additional scientific developments and new discoveries. These new developments we even now foresee, but we are forbidden to include such humanly undiscovered facts in the revelatory records. Let it be made clear that revelations are not necessarily inspired. The cosmology of these revelations is not inspired. It is limited by our permission for the co-ordination and sorting of present-day knowledge. While divine or spiritual insight is a gift, human wisdom must evolve.

101:4.3 (1109.4) Truth is always a revelation: autorevelation when it emerges as a result of the work of the indwelling Adjuster; epochal revelation when it is presented by the function of some other celestial agency, group, or personality.

101:4.4 (1109.5) In the last analysis, religion is to be judged by its fruits, according to the manner and the extent to which it exhibits its own inherent and divine excellence.

101:4.5 (1109.6) Truth may be but relatively inspired, even though revelation is invariably a spiritual phenomenon. While statements with reference to cosmology are never inspired, such revelations are of immense value in that they at least transiently clarify knowledge by:

101:4.6 (1109.7) 1. The reduction of confusion by the authoritative elimination of error.

101:4.7 (1109.8) 2. The co-ordination of known or about-to-be-known facts and observations.

101:4.8 (1110.1) 3. The restoration of important bits of lost knowledge concerning epochal transactions in the distant past.

101:4.9 (1110.2) 4. The supplying of information which will fill in vital missing gaps in otherwise earned knowledge.

101:4.10 (1110.3) 5. Presenting cosmic data in such a manner as to illuminate the spiritual teachings contained in the accompanying revelation.
So there do is some advanced predictive science in URANTIA as well, just look for it online..

3/2/2016 3:24:30 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (6,711)
Kingman, AZ
73, joined May. 2012


Quote from lmarcox2:
Without wanting to bother you here at all, is the above physical book better than the physical books (editions) by the URANTIA Foundation?
I mean: the physical editions of the URANTIA Foundation are good but their pages are so thin that you can see on a page the text of the next page or 2 pages. Does the same happen with the above book by the URANTIA Fellowship??? That's why, among other reasons, you recommend this one??? Thanks!!!.
And to the one who critiqued the science of The URANTIA Book, you don't know this from its page 1109 (emphasis in the original):


The pages in both are probably equally thin. The reason for this is because there are 2000 pages and you don't want a book that is 4 inches thick. I have found that I cannot use a green highlighter as it will bleed through.

I have not seen a new Urantia Foundation (UF) book in many years, though I have some of their older ones, hard bound, here. The Fellowship book has two columns which I prefer to the single column UF books if they are still that way. The Fellowship books have a great INDEX which I don't think the UF books have. The Fellowship books also have a list of the changes to the text. As far as I know, the UF books do not, or did not, and for years UF refused to even acknowledge that they had altered the text in violation of their own Declaration of Trust which required them to keep the text "inviolate." They failed in that trust. Until recently, The Fellowship provided a DVD in the book of the complete audio reading of the book, suitable for mp3 players like the ipod, etc. I used to support Urantia Foundation until 1989 when they tried to gather all power to themselves and set themselves up as "The Only Authority" like the Catholic pope, with their power of copyright on the text and corporate-like trademarks on the circles and the word "Urantia," when they sued believers for spreading the revelation in their own ways, forced the Urantia Brotherhood out, and created their own new lap-dog agency which was beholden to them and which agreed with all of their policies. When UF still had the copyright power, they were insufferable. In short, it's a personal preference for me. I will NEVER support UF again, ever, until they apologize for all the damage they did and make amends. To put it colloquially, UF gave me what is called, "a case of the ass." Once that happens, I'm done with that person or that organization. I will never recommend anyone to go to UF for anything and as long as we have another, independent publisher, I will never help UF move a single book if I can help it. Amen.

3/3/2016 2:49:23 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

lmarcox2
Antonio de BiedmaMexico City
Mexico
32, joined Jun. 2015


Thanks.
And thanks also for sharing your overview of what you know about URANTIA Foundation. It was real instructive, I think.
And since you touched the copyright, why not bring again online your own URANTIA website, that is a collaborative effort with others, and where one finds the transcript of (correct me if I'm wrong) the Supreme Court of one state (was it Chicago's?) about UF's loss of the copyright of the URANTIA text?. Does UF still keeps the international copyright or did it lose it all???.
So, please, there are many goodies in your website so please restore it online somehow. There one finds the complete original text of Larry Mullin's A History of The URANTIA Papers & also its version in Spanish, which is very useful for people like myself.
TIA for all your work, & Cheers!!!.
.luismarco., 32

3/3/2016 2:56:40 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (23,970)
Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


When Christians separate from Catholic unity, and start setting up their own man-made denominations, soon splinter groups form and start new denominations,and splinter groups form from them resulting in newer denominations, and so on.

"That they may be one, even as you [the Father] and I are one."

--Jesus (John 17:21)



[Edited 3/3/2016 2:58:07 PM ]

3/3/2016 3:02:14 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

lmarcox2
Antonio de BiedmaMexico City
Mexico
32, joined Jun. 2015


Although, as some of us know, A history of the URANTIA Papers is in this website (http://www.609g.biz.ht/), I still would like to see your entire FreeURANTIA.org website come to light again online, thank you!.



[Edited 3/3/2016 3:02:40 PM ]

3/3/2016 3:08:31 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

lmarcox2
Antonio de BiedmaMexico City
Mexico
32, joined Jun. 2015


URANTIA:
195:10.9 (2085.1) Many earnest persons who would gladly yield loyalty to the Christ of the gospel find it very difficult enthusiastically to support a church which exhibits so little of the spirit of his life and teachings, and which they have been erroneously taught he founded. Jesus did not found the so-called Christian church, but he has, in every manner consistent with his nature, fostered it as the best existent exponent of his lifework on earth.

195:10.10 (2085.2) If the Christian church would only dare to espouse the Master’s program, thousands of apparently indifferent youths would rush forward to enlist in such a spiritual undertaking, and they would not hesitate to go all the way through with this great adventure.

195:10.11 (2085.3) Christianity is seriously confronted with the doom embodied in one of its own slogans: “A house divided against itself cannot stand.” The non-Christian world will hardly capitulate to a sect-divided Christendom. The living Jesus is the only hope of a possible unification of Christianity. The true church — the Jesus brotherhood — is invisible, spiritual, and is characterized by unity, not necessarily by uniformity. Uniformity is the earmark of the physical world of mechanistic nature. Spiritual unity is the fruit of faith union with the living Jesus. The visible church should refuse longer to handicap the progress of the invisible and spiritual brotherhood of the kingdom of God. And this brotherhood is destined to become a living organism in contrast to an institutionalized social organization. It may well utilize such social organizations, but it must not be supplanted by them.

195:10.12 (2085.4) But the Christianity of even the twentieth century must not be despised. It is the product of the combined moral genius of the God-knowing men of many races during many ages, and it has truly been one of the greatest powers for good on earth, and therefore no man should lightly regard it, notwithstanding its inherent and acquired defects. Christianity still contrives to move the minds of reflective men with mighty moral emotions.

195:10.13 (2085.5) But there is no excuse for the involvement of the church in commerce and politics; such unholy alliances are a flagrant betrayal of the Master. And the genuine lovers of truth will be slow to forget that this powerful institutionalized church has often dared to smother newborn faith and persecute truth bearers who chanced to appear in unorthodox raiment.

195:10.14 (2085.6) It is all too true that such a church would not have survived unless there had been men in the world who preferred such a style of worship. Many spiritually indolent souls crave an ancient and authoritative religion of ritual and sacred traditions. Human evolution and spiritual progress are hardly sufficient to enable all men to dispense with religious authority. And the invisible brotherhood of the kingdom may well include these family groups of various social and temperamental classes if they are only willing to become truly spirit-led sons of God. But in this brotherhood of Jesus there is no place for sectarian rivalry, group bitterness, nor assertions of moral superiority and spiritual infallibility.

195:10.15 (2086.1) These various groupings of Christians may serve to accommodate numerous different types of would-be believers among the various peoples of Western civilization, but such division of Christendom presents a grave weakness when it attempts to carry the gospel of Jesus to Oriental peoples. These races do not yet understand that there is a religion of Jesus separate, and somewhat apart, from Christianity, which has more and more become a religion about Jesus.

195:10.16 (2086.2) The great hope of Urantia lies in the possibility of a new revelation of Jesus with a new and enlarged presentation of his saving message which would spiritually unite in loving service the numerous families of his present-day professed followers.

195:10.17 (2086.3) Even secular education could help in this great spiritual renaissance if it would pay more attention to the work of teaching youth how to engage in life planning and character progression. The purpose of all education should be to foster and further the supreme purpose of life, the development of a majestic and well-balanced personality. There is great need for the teaching of moral discipline in the place of so much self-gratification. Upon such a foundation religion may contribute its spiritual incentive to the enlargement and enrichment of mortal life, even to the security and enhancement of life eternal.

195:10.18 (2086.4) Christianity is an extemporized religion, and therefore must it operate in low gear. High-gear spiritual performances must await the new revelation and the more general acceptance of the real religion of Jesus. But Christianity is a mighty religion, seeing that the commonplace disciples of a crucified carpenter set in motion those teachings which conquered the Roman world in three hundred years and then went on to triumph over the barbarians who overthrew Rome. This same Christianity conquered — absorbed and exalted — the whole stream of Hebrew theology and Greek philosophy. And then, when this Christian religion became comatose for more than a thousand years as a result of an overdose of mysteries and paganism, it resurrected itself and virtually reconquered the whole Western world. Christianity contains enough of Jesus’ teachings to immortalize it.

195:10.19 (2086.5) If Christianity could only grasp more of Jesus’ teachings, it could do so much more in helping modern man to solve his new and increasingly complex problems.

195:10.20 (2086.6) Christianity suffers under a great handicap because it has become identified in the minds of all the world as a part of the social system, the industrial life, and the moral standards of Western civilization; and thus has Christianity unwittingly seemed to sponsor a society which staggers under the guilt of tolerating science without idealism, politics without principles, wealth without work, pleasure without restraint, knowledge without character, power without conscience, and industry without morality.

195:10.21 (2086.7) The hope of modern Christianity is that it should cease to sponsor the social systems and industrial policies of Western civilization while it humbly bows itself before the cross it so valiantly extols, there to learn anew from Jesus of Nazareth the greatest truths mortal man can ever hear — the living gospel of the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man.


3/3/2016 3:10:40 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

lmarcox2
Antonio de BiedmaMexico City
Mexico
32, joined Jun. 2015


URANTIA:
195:9.5 (2083.1) The modern age will refuse to accept a religion which is inconsistent with facts and out of harmony with its highest conceptions of truth, beauty, and goodness. The hour is striking for a rediscovery of the true and original foundations of present-day distorted and compromised Christianity — the real life and teachings of Jesus [me & URANTIA's revelators here: URANTIA's real life & teachings of JESUS].


3/3/2016 3:53:15 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

lmarcox2
Antonio de BiedmaMexico City
Mexico
32, joined Jun. 2015


URANTIA:
195:10.11 (2085.3) Christianity is seriously confronted with the doom embodied in one of its own slogans: “A house divided against itself cannot stand.” The non-Christian world will hardly capitulate to a sect-divided Christendom. The living Jesus is the only hope of a possible unification of Christianity. The true church — the Jesus brotherhood — is invisible, spiritual, and is characterized by unity, not necessarily by uniformity. Uniformity is the earmark of the physical world of mechanistic nature. Spiritual unity is the fruit of faith union with the living Jesus. The visible church should refuse longer to handicap the progress of the invisible and spiritual brotherhood of the kingdom of God. And this brotherhood is destined to become a living organism in contrast to an institutionalized social organization. It may well utilize such social organizations, but it must not be supplanted by them.


3/3/2016 5:28:03 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (10,248)
Jacksonville, FL
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Quote from Ludlow:
I have repented and gone to Confession.

Why are you lying and mocking even your confession? You haven't repented. You still consistently lie and bear false witness and you reject the teachings of Jesus and believe and teach like the murderous Pharisees. You are truly corrupt, Ludlow.

3/3/2016 6:27:34 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (6,711)
Kingman, AZ
73, joined May. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
When Christians separate from Catholic unity, and start setting up their own man-made denominations, soon splinter groups form and start new denominations,and splinter groups form from them resulting in newer denominations, and so on.

"That they may be one, even as you [the Father] and I are one."

--Jesus (John 17:21)


Jesus says nothing about "Catholic unity."

I would never join in unity with a church that disobeys Jesus and wants me to disobey Him too, and which claims to itself an attribute of God, infallibility, and which says I need to pray to Mary and various saints and partake in ritual cannibalism and confess my "sins" to a mere man in a darkened booth. You're completely mad to even imagine such things. If you had ANY idea how much more I know than you know, you'd simply be astounded at your own backwardness. But you cannot know. 86% of the world is non-Catholic, and for good reason. Your group has had 2000 years to convert the world to itself and it has failed, again, for good reason. Your religion can never unify Christianity. It will never become one under your church's leadership. The world rejects your church's leadership. You're living in a dreamworld if you think that someday, your church will lead the world in unity. It ain't going to happen. Dream on.

3/3/2016 8:31:29 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (6,711)
Kingman, AZ
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*

Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

The Catholic church is like unto Humpty Dumpty. The Catholic church had a great fall, and now, all the King's horses and all the King's men cannot put Humpty Dumpty back together again. Ever. That ship has sailed, hit the iceberg, and sank to the bottom. The best that can be hoped for is that Humpty Dumpty will someday become part of an omelet, folded over and with all sorts of other ingredients, spices, and so on included.

Someday the true church of the universal and spiritual brotherhood of Jesus will arise, but it will not be the Catholic church as we know it today.



Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall,
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall;
All the king's horses and all the king's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again.

3/4/2016 9:55:32 AM The Urantia book is of satan.  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (23,970)
Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


Urantia children's song:

Jesus loves me this I know
Because the Urantia Book tells me so
Little ones to Him belong
As long as they're healthy white and strong.

3/4/2016 10:28:17 AM The Urantia book is of satan.  

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (10,248)
Jacksonville, FL
75, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Urantia children's song:

Jesus loves me this I know
Because the Urantia Book tells me so
Little ones to Him belong
As long as they're healthy white and strong.

Another example of how Catholic doctrine has corrupted you. The Urantia Book as has been told to you numerous times is for "racial improvement" not "racism" and it leaves the matter solely up to the dictates of mankind. Why do you continue lying and bearing false witness? You are corrupt, Ludlow. You even stoop to mocking your own confessions to your priests.

3/4/2016 10:34:00 AM The Urantia book is of satan.  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (23,970)
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"Racial improvement" = eugenics = racism.

3/4/2016 10:38:44 AM The Urantia book is of satan.  

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (10,248)
Jacksonville, FL
75, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from ludlowlowell:
"Racial improvement" = eugenics = racism.

Another example of how Catholic doctrine has corrupted you. The Urantia Book as has been told to you numerous times is for "racial improvement" not "racism" and it leaves the matter solely up to the dictates of mankind. Why do you continue lying and bearing false witness? You are corrupt, Ludlow. You even stoop to mocking your own confessions to your priests.

3/4/2016 12:22:44 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (23,970)
Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


KB, you're an intelligent man. You gotta recognize that the Urantia Book is a racist book, from the same vein as Mein Kempf, the Ku Klux Klan, David Duke, and George Wallace. Why not throw your copy away, and find something else to believe in?

3/4/2016 12:57:21 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (6,711)
Kingman, AZ
73, joined May. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
KB, you're an intelligent man. You gotta recognize that the Urantia Book is a racist book, from the same vein as Mein Kempf, the Ku Klux Klan, David Duke, and George Wallace. Why not throw your copy away, and find something else to believe in?


When did you read The Urantia Book that you know so much about it?

Oh, you haven't read it? Perhaps we could continue this discussion after you've read it an know something of what you're talking about. Is that reasonable? Maybe even by then you'll have decided to obey God and show Him that you do indeed love Him.

Of all human knowledge, that which is of greatest value is to know the religious life of Jesus and how he lived it. -196:1.3 The Urantia Book

                                                                                     

3/4/2016 2:08:59 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (23,970)
Panama City, FL
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A collection of Urantia hymns:

Jesus loves me this I know
For the Urantia Book tells me so
Little ones to Him belong
As long as they're healthy, white, and strong.

or...

Onward eugenicist soldiers
Marching with a flame
The flaming cross of the KKK
To terrorize inferior strains.

or...

700,000 gods are great.
700,000 gods are good.
Let us thank them for our food.
By their hands we are fed.
Let us thank them for daily bread.

or...

Now I lay me down to sleep.
I pray 700,000 gods my soul to keep.
If I die before I wake
I pray 700,000 gods my soul to take.


Which one do you like best?



[Edited 3/4/2016 2:11:33 PM ]

3/4/2016 2:57:31 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (6,711)
Kingman, AZ
73, joined May. 2012


I like this one best:

Pro_26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

Quote from ludlowlowell:
A collection of Urantia hymns:

Jesus loves me this I know
For the Urantia Book tells me so
Little ones to Him belong
As long as they're healthy, white, and strong.

or...

Onward eugenicist soldiers
Marching with a flame
The flaming cross of the KKK
To terrorize inferior strains.

or...

700,000 gods are great.
700,000 gods are good.
Let us thank them for our food.
By their hands we are fed.
Let us thank them for daily bread.

or...

Now I lay me down to sleep.
I pray 700,000 gods my soul to keep.
If I die before I wake
I pray 700,000 gods my soul to take.


Which one do you like best?


3/4/2016 3:20:49 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (10,248)
Jacksonville, FL
75, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from ludlowlowell:
KB, you're an intelligent man. You gotta recognize that the Urantia Book is a racist book, from the same vein as Mein Kempf, the Ku Klux Klan, David Duke, and George Wallace. Why not throw your copy away, and find something else to believe in?

You are corrupt, Ludlow. You even stoop to mocking your own confessions to your priests.

3/4/2016 5:51:51 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (23,970)
Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


Does the truth hurt?

3/4/2016 6:24:02 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (6,711)
Kingman, AZ
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
Does the truth hurt?


Pro_26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

3/4/2016 9:51:58 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

prophetic774
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,826)
Winter Haven, FL
65, joined Feb. 2011


Now TNT believes that Revelation 20:13,14 and Revelation 21:8 absolutely proves his ridiculous Annihilation fairy tale.

Revelation 20::13,14: The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and **DEATH** and **HADES** gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done Then death and Hades were thrown into the **LAKE OF FIRE**. The **LAKE OF FIRE** is the **SECOND DEATH**. If anyone's name was not found written in the Book of Life, he will be thrown into the **LAKE OF FIRE**!

Revelation 21:8: But the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts and the idolaters--their place will be in the **FIERY LAKE OF BURNING SULFUR**. This is the **SECOND DEATH**!

So here we learn that all unbelievers who suffered the **FIRST DEATH** in **HADES** will also suffer the **SECOND DEATH** in the **FIERY LAKE OF BURNING SULFUR** which is called the **SECOND DEATH**!

Now TNT claims that when the lost are thrown in the **FIERY LAKE OF BURNING SULFUR** this proves that they will be immediately burned up and **ANNIHILATED** and will not suffer any further punishment????

However Revelation 19:20 and Revelation 20:10 shows that 666, his False Prophet and the Devil will be thrown **ALIVE** into the **FIERY LAKE OF BURNING SULFUR and will be **TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOR EVER AND EVER** and Revelation 14:9-11 shows that all of their followers will also suffer the exact same fate!!!

Revelation 19:20; 20:10: But, the beast will be captured, and with him the False Prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf {See Rev 13:11-18}. With these signs he will delude those who receive the mark of the Beast and worship his image. The two of them were will be thrown **ALIVE** into the **FIERY LAKE OF BURNING SULFUR**!!...And the Devil, who deceived them, will be thrown into the **LAKE OF BURNING SULFUR**, where the Beast and the False Prophet had been thrown. They will be **TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOR EVER AND EVER**!!

Revelation 14:9-11: A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: "If anyone worships the Beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury , which has been thrown full strength into the cup of His wrath. He will be **TORMENTED WITH BURNING SULFUR** in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their **TORMENT** rises **FOR EVER AND EVER**. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the Beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name!!"

**SEVEN** times in the NT Jesus stated that there would be **WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH** in **FIERY FURNACE**!!! In Matthew 8:12; 13:42,50; 22:13; 24:31; 25:30 an Luke13: 28!!

Matthew 13:40-43: Jesus says, "So it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the **FIERY FURNACE**, where there will be **WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH**!! Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who as ears ,let him hear!!"

And so TNT's, SDA's and Urantia's ridiculous annihilation fairy tale is completely disproved in the INSPIRED WORDS OF GOD!!!!!

3/4/2016 10:25:06 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (6,711)
Kingman, AZ
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For proph:

*The wages of sin is death." Rom 6:23

3/5/2016 11:25:09 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (23,970)
Panama City, FL
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...but the wages of sin for the rich man in the Lazarus-rich man parable was Hell fire forever. Is there a contradiction in Scripture? Hmmm...I guess the only way to understand Scripture, with all its real and apparent contradictions, is to go by the teaching authority of the Church.

3/6/2016 12:35:37 AM The Urantia book is of satan.  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (6,711)
Kingman, AZ
73, joined May. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
...but the wages of sin for the rich man in the Lazarus-rich man parable was Hell fire forever. Is there a contradiction in Scripture? Hmmm...I guess the only way to understand Scripture, with all its real and apparent contradictions, is to go by the teaching authority of the Church.


The church has no authority except for those who accept it. 86% of the world does not accept it. Once you take out the CINOs the percentage is probably higher. The Catholic church is an abomination and an anachronism, a relic of paganism and the Dark Ages.

Cardinal Newman, in his book, “The Development of the Christian Religion,” admits that ... “Temples, incense, oil lamps, votive offerings, holy water, holidays and season of devotions, processions, blessing of fields, sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure (of priests and monks and nuns), images ... are all of pagan origin...” (Page 359).

3/6/2016 5:34:06 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (23,970)
Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


The guy who believes in 700,000 gods thinks the Catholic Church is too pagan!

3/6/2016 5:39:08 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (6,711)
Kingman, AZ
73, joined May. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
The guy who believes in 700,000 gods thinks the Catholic Church is too pagan!


There are no "gods" in The Urantia Book, nor do I believe in any "gods." You should consider giving up bearing false witness for lent. If you loved God you would do that, but you don't love Him.

3/6/2016 6:20:26 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (23,970)
Panama City, FL
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If you believe that Jesus is God, and if Jesus is just another creator son, one of 700,000, then there must be 700,000 gods.

I did fairly well at math in school.

3/6/2016 6:53:46 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (6,711)
Kingman, AZ
73, joined May. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
If you believe that Jesus is God, and if Jesus is just another creator son, one of 700,000, then there must be 700,000 gods.

I did fairly well at math in school.


There are no "gods" in The Urantia Book, nor do I believe in any "gods." You should consider giving up bearing false witness for lent. If you loved God you would do that, but you don't love Him.

3/7/2016 12:19:07 AM The Urantia book is of satan.  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (23,970)
Panama City, FL
63, joined Feb. 2008


Did God create the 700,000 creator-sons, or did they exist from all eternity?

3/7/2016 1:19:44 AM The Urantia book is of satan.  

followjesusonly
Over 4,000 Posts! (6,711)
Kingman, AZ
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
Did God create the 700,000 creator-sons, or did they exist from all eternity?


Good question. Actually, I would say they are created, but a friend of mine says not. I haven't been able to get back to her for her explanation. Also, remember, eternal is eternal even if it is only one-way. I think God the Father (The Universal Father), the Eternal Son, and the Infinite Spirit (the Godhead, the Trinity) are the only beings that are eternal both ways. Yes, I know there might be a stigma associated with Jesus being a created being because that might be the view of the Jehovah's Witnesses, but they don't even know if Jesus is God, as far as I can tell, whereas Jesus is God in The Urantia Book, but He's just not part of the Trinity. I don't think the JWs believe in the Trinity either, do they? I don't know.

It looks to me like Jesus/Michael, and all the other Creator Sons, flash into being when the Universal Father and the Eternal Son share some "original concept of infinite identity." Maybe it's like some cosmic orgasm, or a Vulcan mind meld. I bolded it below. Also, as you know I was raised on the "only begotten Son" thing too, and to be perfectly frank with you, when I first came across the idea that Jesus was the “only-begotten Son” personalizing this 611,121st universal concept of divinity and infinity," I had to think that the revelators finessed the whole thing. But once you get used to it, it makes sense. It's just not quite like we figured it. In a way, you and I are "only begotten sons" too. You are the only begotten son who is Ludlow Lowell, and I am the only begotten son who is me. See? LOL. Or as they say, "You're unique just like everyone else."

PAPER 33

ADMINISTRATION OF THE LOCAL UNIVERSE

WHILE the Universal Father most certainly rules over his vast creation, he functions in a local universe administration through the person of the Creator Son. The Father does not otherwise personally function in the administrative affairs of a local universe. These matters are intrusted to the Creator Son and to the local universe Mother Spirit and to their manifold children. The plans, policies, and administrative acts of the local universe are formed and executed by this Son, who, in conjunction with his Spirit associate, delegates executive power to Gabriel and jurisdictional authority to the Constellation Fathers, System Sovereigns, and Planetary Princes.

1. MICHAEL OF NEBADON

33:1.1 Our Creator Son is the personification of the 611,121st original concept of infinite identity of simultaneous origin in the Universal Father and the Eternal Son. The Michael of Nebadon is the “only-begotten Son” personalizing this 611,121st universal concept of divinity and infinity. His headquarters is in the threefold mansion of light on Salvington. And this dwelling is so ordered because Michael has experienced the living of all three phases of intelligent creature existence: spiritual, morontial, and material. Because of the name associated with his seventh and final bestowal on Urantia, he is sometimes spoken of as Christ Michael.

33:1.2 Our Creator Son is not the Eternal Son, the existential Paradise associate of the Universal Father and the Infinite Spirit. Michael of Nebadon is not a member of the Paradise Trinity. Nevertheless our Master Son possesses in his realm all of the divine attributes and powers that the Eternal Son himself would manifest were he actually to be present on Salvington and functioning in Nebadon. Michael possesses even additional power and authority, for he not only personifies the Eternal Son but also fully represents and actually embodies the personality presence of the Universal Father to and in this local universe. He even represents the Father-Son. These relationships constitute a Creator Son the most powerful, versatile, and influential of all divine beings who are capable of direct administration of evolutionary universes and of personality contact with immature creature beings.

33:1.3 Our Creator Son exerts the same spiritual drawing power, spirit gravity, from the headquarters of the local universe that the Eternal Son of Paradise would exert if he were personally present on Salvington, and more; this Universe Son is also the personification of the Universal Father to the universe of Nebadon. Creator Sons are personality centers for the spiritual forces of the Paradise Father-Son. Creator Sons are the final power-personality focalizations of the mighty time-space attributes of God the Sevenfold.

33:1.4 The Creator Son is the vicegerent personalization of the Universal Father, the divinity co-ordinate of the Eternal Son, and the creative associate of the Infinite Spirit. To our universe and all its inhabited worlds the Sovereign Son is, to all practical intents and purposes, God. He personifies all of the Paradise Deities which evolving mortals can discerningly comprehend. This Son and his Spirit associate are your creator parents. To you, Michael, the Creator Son, is the supreme personality; to you, the Eternal Son is supersupreme—an infinite Deity personality.

33:1.5 In the person of the Creator Son we have a ruler and divine parent who is just as mighty, efficient, and beneficent as would be the Universal Father and the Eternal Son if both were present on Salvington and engaged in the administration of the affairs of the universe of Nebadon.

3/14/2016 4:46:37 PM The Urantia book is of satan.  

prophetic774
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,826)
Winter Haven, FL
65, joined Feb. 2011


IS THE FIRST 1,000 YEAR RESURRECTION IN REVELATION 20:4-6 FOR MARTYRS LIKE JESUS AND THE 24 ELDERS ON THRONES WITH AUTHORITY TO JUDGE ONLY??

According to Revelation 20:4-6 there will be *TWO* Resurrections. The 1st continuous 1,000 year Heavenly Resurrection is for the 24 Elders on thrones and *MARTYRS* LIKE JESUS ONLY* and will end at the 2nd coming of Jesus when the 2nd Resurrection will take place for the saints of all ages who are *NOT MARTYRS*!!

In Daniel 12:2 just after the Great Tribulation we read, "Multitudes who SLEEP in the dust of the earth will *AWAKE*, some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

I Thess 5:10: He {Jesus} died for us so that, whether we are AWAKE {Martyrs} or asleep, we may live together with Him. The martyrs who are *AWAKE* with Jesus will also receive their new heavenly bodies at the 2nd coming of Jesus as per I Corinthians 15:51,52: Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all *SLEEP* but we will all be changed--in a flash, in a twinkling of an eye, at the Last {7TH} Trumpet!!

There are only TWO RESURRECTIONS for all saints mentioned in Rev 20:4-6: The FIRST RESURRECTION is for MARTYRS AND THE 24 ELDERS ONLY and INCLUDES the Tribulation Martyrs. And therefore the SECOND RESURRECTION must come on the Last Day of the Great Tribulation and must include ALL SAINTS {Both OT & NT} who are not martyrs or the 24 Elders on thrones.

The Heavenly rewards for the faithful and courageous *MARTYRS* is one of the most important central themes in the book of Revelation. For they will reign with Jesus in Heaven during the 1,000 years before His 2nd Coming; and according to Revelation 7:14-17: They are before the Throne of God and God will spread His tent over them. They will receive White Robes washed in the blood of the Lamb. Never again will they hunger or thirst and God Himself will wipe every tear from their eyes. Jesus will be their Shepherd and will lead them to springs of Living Water.

FOR EXAMPLE: Let us suppose that the SECOND RESURRECTION takes place on September 17th; 2019 then the continuous 1,000 year FIRST RESURRECTION for MARTYRS AND 24 ELDERS ONLY would take place from September 17th, AD 1019 to September 17th, 2019. The 24 Elders and all of the OT & NT saints martyred before September 17th, 1019 were awakened to reign with Jesus in Heaven and every Martyr martyred after September 17th, 1019 were and will be immediately awakened to reign with Jesus in the continuous 1,000 year FIRST RESURRECTION to be completed on September 17th, 2019 at the SECOND RESURRECTION when "The rest of the dead come to life when the thousand years are ENDED." {Rev 20:5a}

Rev 20:4b “I saw the *SOULS of those who had been martyred because of their testimony for Jesus... they came to life and reigned with Christ for 1,000 years. The Martyrs SOULS will only get their New Heavenly bodies when the 1,000 years are ENDED at the 2nd Coming of Jesus.

This seems to contradict John 6:40: Jesus says, “EVERYONE who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life and I will raise him up at the LAST DAY.” HOWEVER, the LAST DAY RESURRECTION could last 1,000 years for in 2 Pet 3:8 we read: “With the Lord a DAY is like 1,000 years, and 1,000 years are like a DAY!!

We see the martyrs talking in heaven at the beginning of the Great Tribulation in Revelation 6:9-11 and then we see a great multitude of martyrs who have come out of the Great Tribulation from every nation and language awake in heaven just before the first 7 trumpet plagues in Revelation 7:9-17.

And then just before the last 7 bowl plagues we see martyrs in heaven singing the song of the Lamb in Revelation 15:2-4: And then we see 144,000 Jewish martyrs in heaven with Jesus BEFORE Rome or Babylon is destroyed in Rev 14:8 in Revlation 14:1-5:

Revelation 6:9-11: When He {Jesus} opened the 5th seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood? Then each of them were given a WHITE ROBE, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed {Tribulation martyrs} as they had been was completed.

Revelation 7:9,10,13-15,17: After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from EVERY nation, tribe, people and language standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb {Jesus} They were wearing WHITE ROBES and were holding..And they cried out in a loud voice, "Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne , and to the Lamb...Then one of the {24} elders asked me, "Those in WHITE ROBES--who are they, and where did they come from?" And he said, "They are they who have come out of the *GREAT TRIBULATION*, they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore, They are before the throne of God and serve Him day and night in His temple...The Lamb in the center of the throne will be their Shepherd!"

Revelation 15:2,3: And I saw..those who had been victorious over the Beast {666} and his image and the number of his name {Tribulation Martyrs}. They held harps given them by God and sang the song of Moses the servant of God and the song of the Lamb: "Great and marvelous are your deeds, Lord God Almighty. Just and true are your ways, King of the ages..." Note: Mount Zion is another name for heaven as per Hebrews 12:22}

Revelation 14:1-4: Then I looked, an there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with Him 144,000 {See Rev 7:3-8}...And I heard a sound from Heaven...And they sang a new song before the throne. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been REDEEMED from the earth...They follow the Lamb wherever He goes.

The 24 Elders on thrones are mentioned many times in Revelation 4:4,10; 5:5,6,8,11,14; 7:11,13; 11:16-18; 14:3 and 19:4 The 24 Elders on thrones are mentioned many times speaking from heaven during the Great Tribulation and are the only saints mentioned in heaven during the Great Tribulation besides the MARTYRS!!

It is completely obvious that the continuous 1,000 year reign mentioned in Revelation 20:4-6 is for 24 ELDERS on Thrones and MARTYRS ONLY according to God's Word in Revelation 20:4,5: "I saw Thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to JUDGE and I saw the SOULS of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus {NT Martyrs}and because of the word of God {OT Martyrs}. They had not worshiped the beast and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands {Tribulation Martyrs}. They came to life and rigned with Christ a thousand years. The rest of the dead {Saints who were not martyrs or the 24 elders}did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. {At the 2nd coming of Jesus}